WEBVTT

00:00:10.810 --> 00:00:13.229
- I was born in Queens
and I was raised

00:00:13.230 --> 00:00:16.639
in place called Valley Stream.

00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:20.509
People who lived there were
World War II veterans, mostly

00:00:20.510 --> 00:00:23.439
blue collar workers.

00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.419
My father never finished
school, could barely read.

00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:30.660
When we went to a restaurant,
I would have to read the menu.

00:00:33.870 --> 00:00:36.309
I was never a very
good student...

00:00:36.310 --> 00:00:40.069
Math and science and stuff like
that was a difficulty for me.

00:00:40.070 --> 00:00:41.489
I don\'t think there
was one summer

00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:43.069
that I didn\'t have to
go to summer school

00:00:43.070 --> 00:00:44.390
to get to the next grade.

00:00:46.700 --> 00:00:49.789
Back in the \'60s teachers
would pigeonhole people.

00:00:49.790 --> 00:00:51.539
\"Victor is not very
bright, so he\'s

00:00:51.540 --> 00:00:53.599
going to go to plumbing
school like his dad.\"

00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.569
That\'s what the plan was,
and that was my goal.

00:00:57.570 --> 00:01:00.479
One day my father leaned
across the table looked at me

00:01:00.480 --> 00:01:02.149
and said, \"What are
you doing at night?\"

00:01:02.150 --> 00:01:04.359
And I said, \"Well, I\'m
hanging out with the guys.\"

00:01:04.360 --> 00:01:07.879
He said, \"Well, why
don\'t you go to college?\"

00:01:07.880 --> 00:01:09.169
That was really strange for me.

00:01:09.170 --> 00:01:12.149
My father had never mentioned
the word college in my 17 years

00:01:12.150 --> 00:01:15.289
of existence... had never
heard him say that word.

00:01:15.290 --> 00:01:17.779
And I looked at him
and I said, \"Why do I

00:01:17.780 --> 00:01:19.369
want to go to college?\"

00:01:19.370 --> 00:01:22.209
He said \"To meet
smart women, stupid.\"

00:01:22.210 --> 00:01:24.209
So I ended up going to
college at a place called

00:01:24.210 --> 00:01:26.949
Adelphi University, which
was the first one in the book

00:01:26.950 --> 00:01:28.919
and it happened to be
very close to my house.

00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:31.579
So I wasn\'t going to
make this a career.

00:01:31.580 --> 00:01:33.789
I was just going to go to
school to meet smart women.

00:01:33.790 --> 00:01:37.139
So why not stay close to home?

00:01:37.140 --> 00:01:39.229
My first class was a
class in psychology.

00:01:39.230 --> 00:01:41.769
And to complete
the course, you had

00:01:41.770 --> 00:01:43.559
to participate in an experiment.

00:01:43.560 --> 00:01:45.559
And the experiment they
were doing at that point

00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:50.859
was you were drawing objects
by looking at them in a mirror.

00:01:50.860 --> 00:01:53.589
I drew the object perfectly,
so they thought I was cheating.

00:01:53.590 --> 00:01:55.169
So they gave me
another object to draw

00:01:55.170 --> 00:01:57.899
and then another object to draw
and then finally the teacher

00:01:57.900 --> 00:02:00.979
said, \"I think you
have dyslexia.\"

00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:02.959
Once I found out
that I had dyslexia

00:02:02.960 --> 00:02:05.299
and I knew what it
was, they taught

00:02:05.300 --> 00:02:08.109
me to reverse my letters
and numbers in my brain.

00:02:08.110 --> 00:02:10.369
So it\'s just a matter
of relearning things.

00:02:10.370 --> 00:02:12.449
And once I could do
that, I could read.

00:02:12.450 --> 00:02:14.399
Once I could read, I
realized I wasn\'t as dumb

00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:15.819
as everybody thought I was.

00:02:15.820 --> 00:02:19.030
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:03:03.350 --> 00:03:05.369
I got a phone call from
a guy named Bill Dunn,

00:03:05.370 --> 00:03:07.189
said \"I have a job for you.\"

00:03:07.190 --> 00:03:08.289
I said, \"Who are you?\"

00:03:08.290 --> 00:03:10.819
He said, \"I work at Philip
Morris and we make cigarettes.\"

00:03:10.820 --> 00:03:12.109
I said \"This must be a mistake.

00:03:12.110 --> 00:03:13.209
Cigarettes?

00:03:13.210 --> 00:03:14.869
I do drug research.\"

00:03:14.870 --> 00:03:16.079
He said, \"I know what you do.

00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.629
I got a job for you.\"

00:03:18.630 --> 00:03:20.009
I went to my
sponsor\'s laboratory

00:03:20.010 --> 00:03:22.599
and I told him I
got a job offer.

00:03:22.600 --> 00:03:25.099
And I blew him off.

00:03:25.100 --> 00:03:26.689
Well, my sponsor\'s
a psychiatrist.

00:03:26.690 --> 00:03:28.359
Psychiatrists never
tell you what to do.

00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:30.809
They just let you come
to your own conclusions.

00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:32.229
He said, \"Let me
see if I can help

00:03:32.230 --> 00:03:34.159
you understand your situation.

00:03:34.160 --> 00:03:35.199
You\'re a post-doc fellow.

00:03:35.200 --> 00:03:36.639
You\'ve been working
here for 18 months.

00:03:36.640 --> 00:03:38.679
You\'re working 14 hours
a day, seven days a week.

00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:40.719
I\'m paying you 11,000 a year.

00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:41.720
You\'ve lost weight.

00:03:41.721 --> 00:03:46.029
I\'ve seen you eat leftover rat
chow in the morning with milk.

00:03:46.030 --> 00:03:47.829
Here\'s a guy offering
you the opportunity

00:03:47.830 --> 00:03:50.129
to get job interviewing
skills, go to a corporation,

00:03:50.130 --> 00:03:51.899
talk about science,
and, the best part,

00:03:51.900 --> 00:03:53.439
they\'re going to
pay for everything.\"

00:03:53.440 --> 00:03:56.320
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:15.969
They picked me up at the
airport with a limousine.

00:04:15.970 --> 00:04:17.839
I hadn\'t been in a limousine
since my high school prom.

00:04:17.840 --> 00:04:18.840
This was cool.

00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:23.509
I didn\'t care about this job.

00:04:23.510 --> 00:04:26.550
I went to my room, I ordered
$75 worth of room service.

00:04:28.970 --> 00:04:32.090
I thought I was going to take
the food back to Minnesota.

00:04:35.710 --> 00:04:37.429
I met Bill in the
morning for breakfast.

00:04:37.430 --> 00:04:39.259
What\'s this job all about?

00:04:39.260 --> 00:04:40.010
He said, \"Hang on.

00:04:40.011 --> 00:04:41.389
Let\'s get some
breakfast and I\'ll

00:04:41.390 --> 00:04:42.719
tell you a little bit about you.

00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.799
He said, \"I understand you
are a post-doc fellow.\"

00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:45.760
I said, that\'s right.

00:04:45.761 --> 00:04:47.909
\"And you just joined the
Society for Neuroscience.\"

00:04:47.910 --> 00:04:48.900
I said, that\'s right.

00:04:48.900 --> 00:04:49.750
He said, \"Your
father is a plumber

00:04:49.751 --> 00:04:50.859
and your mother is a secretary.

00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:52.289
She works for the
Salvation Army.

00:04:52.290 --> 00:04:54.349
Your sister works in Mercy
Hospital in medical records

00:04:54.350 --> 00:04:55.769
in Rockefeller
Center in New York.

00:04:55.770 --> 00:04:57.529
There\'s 31 people in
your extended family,

00:04:57.530 --> 00:05:01.979
and you\'re the first person
in your family go to college.\"

00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:03.889
I didn\'t know how he had
got that information,

00:05:03.890 --> 00:05:05.220
but he had it.

00:05:10.050 --> 00:05:11.459
I met with Dr. Thomas Osdene.

00:05:11.460 --> 00:05:13.329
He was the Director of
Science and Technology

00:05:13.330 --> 00:05:15.529
for Philip Morris research.

00:05:15.530 --> 00:05:17.269
He said, \"We\'ve got a problem.

00:05:17.270 --> 00:05:20.169
138,000 people will have
heart attacks and brain

00:05:20.170 --> 00:05:24.589
strokes every year
caused by nicotine.\"

00:05:24.590 --> 00:05:27.519
I said, \"You guys make a product
that you know kills people?\"

00:05:27.520 --> 00:05:28.400
He said, \"No, no, no.

00:05:28.401 --> 00:05:29.949
We don\'t kill anybody.

00:05:29.950 --> 00:05:33.769
Nicotine does, but
we have a program.\"

00:05:33.770 --> 00:05:37.119
- Work had been going on for
the four years that I had been

00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:40.729
there to develop
substitutes for nicotine,

00:05:40.730 --> 00:05:43.619
called nicotine analogues.

00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:44.909
- They had a bunch of chemists.

00:05:44.910 --> 00:05:48.899
And these chemists were
altering the nicotine molecule,

00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:50.929
but they had no way to test it.

00:05:50.930 --> 00:05:52.479
That\'s where I came in.

00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:55.979
My job was to identify a
molecule to the rat\'s brain

00:05:55.980 --> 00:05:57.199
said, \"I like it.\"

00:05:57.200 --> 00:05:59.760
But the rat\'s heart
had no problem with it.

00:06:01.900 --> 00:06:06.309
- Philip Morris recognized
that it was in their interest

00:06:06.310 --> 00:06:10.259
to find products that were
equally addictive to keep

00:06:10.260 --> 00:06:15.579
the profit machine going,
but killed less people.

00:06:15.580 --> 00:06:18.569
Why would they care?

00:06:18.570 --> 00:06:22.449
Well, they might care to keep
their smokers smoking longer.

00:06:22.450 --> 00:06:24.469
Dead people don\'t
buy cigarettes.

00:06:24.470 --> 00:06:27.669
- To a scientist,
that\'s a dream.

00:06:27.670 --> 00:06:29.389
You get to do a
job that actually

00:06:29.390 --> 00:06:30.729
might make a difference.

00:06:30.730 --> 00:06:33.369
- \"So you\'re going to make
a more addicting cigarette?\"

00:06:33.370 --> 00:06:34.280
And he said, \"No, no.

00:06:34.281 --> 00:06:35.349
That\'s not true.\"

00:06:35.350 --> 00:06:37.669
And I said, \"Why else
would you go there?\"

00:06:37.670 --> 00:06:40.159
- He was being given the
opportunity to set up

00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:44.699
a world-class laboratory
to study the behavioral

00:06:44.700 --> 00:06:46.909
pharmacology of nicotine.

00:06:46.910 --> 00:06:50.870
And that was a vital
question to pursue.

00:06:53.670 --> 00:06:56.989
- In 1979, smoking didn\'t have
the stigma that it has today.

00:06:56.990 --> 00:06:58.319
You could smoke on airplanes.

00:06:58.320 --> 00:06:59.270
You could smoke on TV.

00:06:59.271 --> 00:07:01.269
You could smoke anywhere.

00:07:01.270 --> 00:07:03.739
There was no
anti-smoking movement.

00:07:03.740 --> 00:07:06.399
Here was a company that was
willing to improve its product.

00:07:06.400 --> 00:07:09.209
And that improvement would
result in better health.

00:07:09.210 --> 00:07:13.279
I thought this was the
greatest company in the world.

00:07:13.280 --> 00:07:16.409
- My favorite pencil, which is
still my favorite pencil today,

00:07:16.410 --> 00:07:20.259
is a Ticonderoga 2 and 5/10.

00:07:20.260 --> 00:07:23.029
One day I could
not find my pencil.

00:07:23.030 --> 00:07:26.139
And I asked my lab mates
if anyone had seen it.

00:07:26.140 --> 00:07:29.389
And nobody admitted to
knowing where it was.

00:07:29.390 --> 00:07:33.509
- I was copying down some data
off of these banks of numbers.

00:07:33.510 --> 00:07:35.159
- And I found it in
Vic DeNoble\'s hand.

00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:36.659
- I didn\'t know it
was his pencil...

00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:37.640
I was using his pencil.

00:07:37.641 --> 00:07:39.249
- Vic, that\'s my pencil.

00:07:39.250 --> 00:07:41.099
He said, \"No it\'s not.\"

00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:42.559
- How do you know
it\'s your pencil?

00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:43.719
It\'s a yellow pencil.

00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:45.999
- And he adamantly denied
that it was my pencil. -

00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.259
And he said,\"Well, it\'s a
Ticonderoga 6 and 2/10.\"

00:07:49.260 --> 00:07:50.829
- It\'s a 2 and 5/10 Ticonderoga.

00:07:50.830 --> 00:07:52.579
- And sure enough that
was the name of it:

00:07:52.580 --> 00:07:53.540
Ticonderoga 6 and 2/10.

00:07:53.541 --> 00:07:54.559
I said, \"Well, OK.

00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:55.410
I\'ll give it back
when I\'m done.\"

00:07:55.410 --> 00:07:56.370
- Hand it over, please.

00:07:56.370 --> 00:07:57.370
- Well, I got irritated.

00:07:57.370 --> 00:07:58.160
He got irritated.

00:07:58.161 --> 00:08:00.029
Well, I took the pencil
and broke it in half.

00:08:00.030 --> 00:08:01.109
I gave half the pencil.

00:08:01.110 --> 00:08:05.569
And then we became friends
from that moment on.

00:08:05.570 --> 00:08:08.759
- The reason I even considered
going to work for Philip Morris

00:08:08.760 --> 00:08:12.049
was because Vic
DeNoble was there.

00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:16.739
- Building the laboratory was
great, but there was a catch.

00:08:16.740 --> 00:08:20.519
The research had to be kept
secret even within the company.

00:08:20.520 --> 00:08:22.389
- As you walk through
the hall, normally, you

00:08:22.390 --> 00:08:23.929
could look into a lab.

00:08:23.930 --> 00:08:25.839
You couldn\'t look into that lab.

00:08:25.840 --> 00:08:28.199
There was an agreement among
the cigarette companies

00:08:28.200 --> 00:08:30.009
not to do in-house
animal studies,

00:08:30.010 --> 00:08:34.379
that we weren\'t going to
do that kind of research.

00:08:34.380 --> 00:08:36.249
Philip Morris and the
industry as a whole...

00:08:36.250 --> 00:08:38.999
Through evasions and
lies over the years...

00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.169
They\'d really painted
themselves into a corner.

00:08:41.170 --> 00:08:42.839
They had told the
public, they had

00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.949
told lawmakers there was no
proof of a causal connection

00:08:45.950 --> 00:08:48.299
between smoking and disease.

00:08:48.300 --> 00:08:53.029
They had said, no way is
smoking and nicotine addictive.

00:08:53.030 --> 00:08:56.679
They couldn\'t be seen through
their scientific researches

00:08:56.680 --> 00:08:58.479
as knowing better.

00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.400
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.289
- Why would a rat press
a switch for nicotine?

00:09:11.290 --> 00:09:13.189
Rats don\'t have social pressure.

00:09:13.190 --> 00:09:14.739
Rats don\'t care
about losing weight.

00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:16.869
And rats don\'t go to the movies.

00:09:16.870 --> 00:09:19.339
The only reason a rat would
press a lever for nicotine

00:09:19.340 --> 00:09:22.669
is if his brain
said, \"I like it.\"

00:09:22.670 --> 00:09:24.659
Drug addiction is a disease.

00:09:24.660 --> 00:09:27.349
Our job is to recreate that
disease in our animals,

00:09:27.350 --> 00:09:29.609
so we can look for
drugs to treat it.

00:09:29.610 --> 00:09:32.619
So what we had to do was
turn our rats into smokers.

00:09:32.620 --> 00:09:35.629
If they press the lever,
they would get nicotine.

00:09:35.630 --> 00:09:38.589
Would a rat addict
himself to nicotine?

00:09:38.590 --> 00:09:40.369
Nobody had ever
done that before.

00:09:40.370 --> 00:09:42.199
The big question was dose.

00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:43.789
How much nicotine
do you give a rat?

00:09:43.790 --> 00:09:45.389
We had no idea.

00:09:45.390 --> 00:09:46.969
But we know how much
nicotine a person

00:09:46.970 --> 00:09:48.829
gets when they
smoke a cigarette.

00:09:48.830 --> 00:09:51.039
We reduced the dose
down proportionately

00:09:51.040 --> 00:09:52.939
to the rat-size dose.

00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:57.079
So it was like the rat was
smoking a rat-sized cigarette.

00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:59.849
When the rat pressed the
lever for the first time,

00:09:59.850 --> 00:10:02.611
the dose was wrong and
the reaction was violent.

00:10:04.750 --> 00:10:08.029
I needed to rethink this.

00:10:08.030 --> 00:10:12.389
I\'d seen people smoke before,
but I never really watched it.

00:10:12.390 --> 00:10:13.670
They puff and they puff.

00:10:16.660 --> 00:10:18.689
They puff.

00:10:18.690 --> 00:10:21.099
They smoke a cigarette
over seven minutes.

00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:24.529
We were giving our nicotine
to the rats in three seconds.

00:10:24.530 --> 00:10:26.149
I made some
adjustments in the pump

00:10:26.150 --> 00:10:28.569
so that the rats would get
their nicotine periodically,

00:10:28.570 --> 00:10:31.139
the same way people
smoke a cigarette.

00:10:31.140 --> 00:10:31.900
Bam!

00:10:31.901 --> 00:10:35.569
The rat started
pressing the switch.

00:10:35.570 --> 00:10:38.729
There\'s a neurotransmitter in
your brain called dopamine.

00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:40.059
It makes you feel good.

00:10:40.060 --> 00:10:43.989
All drugs that are addicting
change the way dopamine works.

00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:47.209
You can think of dopamine as
a small stream in your brain.

00:10:47.210 --> 00:10:48.629
But when you\'re
addicted to a drug

00:10:48.630 --> 00:10:50.049
that stream becomes a river.

00:10:50.050 --> 00:10:51.969
And the only way for you
to stay in that river

00:10:51.970 --> 00:10:54.359
is to keep using that drug.

00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:56.649
On day one, the rats hit the
switch two or three times.

00:10:56.650 --> 00:10:59.880
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:12.450
By day five, they were hitting
the switch seven times a day.

00:11:14.930 --> 00:11:19.969
By day 10, it was
about 20 times a day.

00:11:19.970 --> 00:11:23.819
We got to day 21, they were
hitting the switch 90 times

00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:25.529
every single day.

00:11:25.530 --> 00:11:27.650
[WHISTLING]

00:11:37.270 --> 00:11:39.829
It was really working.

00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:41.070
The rats were addicted.

00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:46.739
- After we completed
the study, we

00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:49.839
reported it and we asked
permission to publish it.

00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:52.079
- When you do science, you
do if for the public good.

00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.249
And you want it to be out
there for other scientists

00:11:54.250 --> 00:11:57.619
to read it and
understand it and to try

00:11:57.620 --> 00:12:01.309
to translate your findings
into improved public health.

00:12:01.310 --> 00:12:03.559
- I wanted to publish
this paper right away.

00:12:03.560 --> 00:12:05.759
There was a problem.

00:12:05.760 --> 00:12:08.549
Self-administration is the
hallmark of drug addiction.

00:12:08.550 --> 00:12:10.589
We had to convince
the company that this

00:12:10.590 --> 00:12:12.059
wasn\'t going to be a threat.

00:12:12.060 --> 00:12:14.029
We had to convince
them that reinforcers

00:12:14.030 --> 00:12:16.389
aren\'t necessarily addictive.

00:12:16.390 --> 00:12:18.169
This wasn\'t going to be easy.

00:12:18.170 --> 00:12:21.129
These guys are sharp scientists.

00:12:21.130 --> 00:12:22.669
With our animal
model, we could begin

00:12:22.670 --> 00:12:24.809
to do the work we
were hired to do.

00:12:24.810 --> 00:12:27.209
I began testing these
ulta-nicotine molecules.

00:12:27.210 --> 00:12:28.889
I was looking for a
drug that the animal

00:12:28.890 --> 00:12:32.359
would want to give itself, but
wouldn\'t cause heart problems.

00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:33.939
Nicotine is unique
because it triggers

00:12:33.940 --> 00:12:36.209
what we call prostration.

00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:40.369
All the hair stands up and the
breathing rate accelerates.

00:12:40.370 --> 00:12:42.839
We were testing for a drug
that wouldn\'t affect the heart,

00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.919
and that\'s how we discovered
our main contender:

00:12:45.920 --> 00:12:48.399
two-prime methyl-nicotine.

00:12:48.400 --> 00:12:51.979
We saw prostration,
but no hair stood up.

00:12:51.980 --> 00:12:53.579
The breathing rate was normal.

00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:56.189
It is what we were looking for.

00:12:56.190 --> 00:12:59.619
- Victor and I discussed how
the results of his research

00:12:59.620 --> 00:13:04.069
could be used in, let\'s call
it, safer or less harmful

00:13:04.070 --> 00:13:05.439
cigarette.

00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.399
- I proposed a design
to the company:

00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:10.889
a cigarette that had
tobacco, but no nicotine.

00:13:10.890 --> 00:13:12.749
We stuck our drug out here.

00:13:12.750 --> 00:13:15.789
A person would light up a
cigarette and suck on it.

00:13:15.790 --> 00:13:18.999
Our drug would be in there.

00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.389
They would be addicted,
but no heart disease.

00:13:22.390 --> 00:13:23.360
This was so exciting.

00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:24.190
It was unbelievable.

00:13:24.191 --> 00:13:27.220
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:13:41.390 --> 00:13:42.969
Rats would practically
work themselves

00:13:42.970 --> 00:13:45.929
to death for cocaine and heroin.

00:13:45.930 --> 00:13:47.849
But they wouldn\'t work
very hard for nicotine.

00:13:47.850 --> 00:13:50.500
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:13:57.250 --> 00:14:02.529
I began to wonder, why would
smoking addict so many people?

00:14:02.530 --> 00:14:04.959
I got a list of all the
chemicals in cigarette smoke.

00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:07.920
I had a hunch one of them
might be an addictive drug.

00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:19.009
- Victor DeNoble was the first
one to look at the question of,

00:14:19.010 --> 00:14:24.489
does acid aldehyde play some
role in tobacco dependence

00:14:24.490 --> 00:14:25.649
or addiction?

00:14:25.650 --> 00:14:27.759
- Up until that
time, we had been

00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:31.239
looking at nicotine as a
chemical, the primary one

00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.019
that everybody knows about.

00:14:33.020 --> 00:14:34.929
Chemicals interact
with receptors.

00:14:34.930 --> 00:14:37.279
In the way nicotine
works, it interacts

00:14:37.280 --> 00:14:39.519
with a particular receptor.

00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:42.779
And so if I can make
that receptor, let\'s say,

00:14:42.780 --> 00:14:47.699
more receptive to nicotine
with another chemical,

00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:50.739
then it enhances the
effect of the addiction or

00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:51.929
of the chemical.

00:14:51.930 --> 00:14:54.239
- Could acetaldehyde
be an addictive drug?

00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:55.170
We didn\'t know.

00:14:55.170 --> 00:14:56.050
So we asked the rats.

00:14:56.051 --> 00:14:59.210
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:15:05.180 --> 00:15:09.489
- Victor DeNoble found that
when acetaldehyde is transmitted

00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:12.039
to the brain, it enhances
and it strengthens

00:15:12.040 --> 00:15:13.280
the action of nicotine.

00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:19.299
- In our experiment, the
rat would press the lever

00:15:19.300 --> 00:15:21.129
120 times for nicotine.

00:15:21.130 --> 00:15:23.909
For acetaldehyde, it
went up to 240 times.

00:15:23.910 --> 00:15:26.349
But when you mix
the two together,

00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:29.239
the results were
even more exciting.

00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:32.939
They pressed the lever
more than 540 times.

00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:36.009
- Victor and Paul\'s work
at the time we were there

00:15:36.010 --> 00:15:40.129
was sort of like groundbreaking,
earth shattering.

00:15:40.130 --> 00:15:42.529
- We are on the brink
of a major breakthrough.

00:15:42.530 --> 00:15:45.049
- The review board had
questions and doubts

00:15:45.050 --> 00:15:47.669
and nobody was
recommending publication.

00:15:47.670 --> 00:15:50.459
- Sounds like we\'re into the
animal testing business...

00:15:50.460 --> 00:15:52.129
- Studies performed
on intact animals...

00:15:52.130 --> 00:15:54.509
- We\'re getting on thin ice.

00:15:54.510 --> 00:15:56.049
- But the paper was
approved anyways,

00:15:56.050 --> 00:15:58.331
for publication
outside the company.

00:16:01.690 --> 00:16:04.930
- Once a month, we had what was
called the Richmond Meeting.

00:16:14.770 --> 00:16:16.469
The senior management
from New York

00:16:16.470 --> 00:16:18.670
would come and sit
around a table.

00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.649
- At the Richmond meeting, I
presented both the nicotine

00:16:23.650 --> 00:16:27.349
analogue data and the
acetaldehyde data.

00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:31.599
Yes, we could use analogues
to replace nicotine.

00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:36.059
And yes, we found a second
drug in tobacco smoke

00:16:36.060 --> 00:16:39.419
that changed the way nicotine
was perceived in the brain.

00:16:39.420 --> 00:16:44.779
[CLAPPING]

00:16:44.780 --> 00:16:46.729
- Absolutely brilliant.

00:16:46.730 --> 00:16:47.230
- Genius.

00:16:47.231 --> 00:16:49.819
- If I change nicotine to a
new chemical, it\'s a new drug,

00:16:49.820 --> 00:16:52.599
and I have to go
through FDA clearance.

00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.419
But manipulating
a reinforcer that

00:16:55.420 --> 00:16:58.249
could be put in cigarettes,
like the acid aldehyde,

00:16:58.250 --> 00:17:00.419
is something that
was already there.

00:17:00.420 --> 00:17:01.739
They already had acetaldehyde.

00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:04.339
So all we\'re doing is increasing
something that\'s there.

00:17:04.340 --> 00:17:07.219
So that one kind
of lit up the room.

00:17:07.220 --> 00:17:10.619
\"Oh, that\'s an
easy thing to do.\"

00:17:10.620 --> 00:17:14.939
- All they could do was
talk about the acetaldehyde.

00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:18.530
- They realized the potential
use of this combination.

00:17:21.930 --> 00:17:26.719
- And the entire program
became focused on acetaldehyde.

00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.179
- From the company\'s
point of view,

00:17:28.180 --> 00:17:32.019
they saw a means to get
more bang for the buck.

00:17:32.020 --> 00:17:33.849
- If you have a way of
manipulating nicotine

00:17:33.850 --> 00:17:36.899
and acetaldehyde, you have
a way of optimizing ratios

00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:38.509
that people are going to like.

00:17:38.510 --> 00:17:41.949
You have a way of making it a
maximally addictive product.

00:17:41.950 --> 00:17:44.449
Your sales are going
to go through the roof.

00:17:44.450 --> 00:17:45.909
And if you\'re the
only company that

00:17:45.910 --> 00:17:48.119
knows this information and
then the only company that

00:17:48.120 --> 00:17:51.189
can use this information, the
potential is just unbelievable.

00:17:51.190 --> 00:17:53.660
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:18:27.550 --> 00:18:30.629
- Philip Morris would have
been concerned about this

00:18:30.630 --> 00:18:35.329
acetaldehyde research, because
they were trying to market

00:18:35.330 --> 00:18:38.639
cigarettes as sort of
a lifestyle product...

00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.739
As something which people
took that they enjoyed.

00:18:42.740 --> 00:18:46.009
But they were trying to
stay away from the fact

00:18:46.010 --> 00:18:51.819
that they\'re drug marketers.

00:18:51.820 --> 00:18:54.119
And when you start
saying, \"Here we

00:18:54.120 --> 00:18:58.789
have animal models where
rats self-administer nicotine

00:18:58.790 --> 00:19:02.489
the same way they do cocaine,
or other drugs of abuse.

00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:05.069
And if we add acetaldehyde,
which is in smoke,

00:19:05.070 --> 00:19:09.099
and they self-administer more\"
makes it more addictive.

00:19:09.100 --> 00:19:11.469
Then it makes it pretty clear
that what they\'re marketing

00:19:11.470 --> 00:19:14.699
is an addicting drug.

00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:17.289
- Jim told me I had
to withdraw the paper.

00:19:17.290 --> 00:19:19.339
What do you mean?

00:19:19.340 --> 00:19:20.170
He said, \"The paper.

00:19:20.170 --> 00:19:20.710
Withdraw it.\"

00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:21.520
I said, no.

00:19:21.521 --> 00:19:25.579
He said, \"Go
downstairs and do it.\"

00:19:25.580 --> 00:19:28.189
- When Shep Pollack, the
president of the company,

00:19:28.190 --> 00:19:31.949
came to visit our lab
that was a major event.

00:19:31.950 --> 00:19:35.099
He came with Fred
Newman, the attorney

00:19:35.100 --> 00:19:38.219
that we had most contact
with, the attorney who

00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:41.339
was evaluating our work.

00:19:41.340 --> 00:19:43.089
- It was almost as if
the rat were on cue.

00:19:43.090 --> 00:19:45.529
Open the box, and
the rat\'s pressing

00:19:45.530 --> 00:19:48.489
the switch for nicotine.

00:19:48.490 --> 00:19:50.719
And he looked at me
and he said, \"Does that

00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:55.009
mean nicotine is addictive?\"

00:19:55.010 --> 00:19:57.289
- That\'s very intimidating
when the president

00:19:57.290 --> 00:19:59.599
of a major corporation
asks you that,

00:19:59.600 --> 00:20:03.829
and you are assuming your
job may be on the line.

00:20:03.830 --> 00:20:06.329
- And the lawyer, Fred Newman,
jumps in between us and says,

00:20:06.330 --> 00:20:12.819
\"Don\'t answer the question.\"

00:20:12.820 --> 00:20:15.180
I sent a letter
withdrawing the paper.

00:20:20.130 --> 00:20:22.509
That was the worst scientific
day of my entire life.

00:20:22.510 --> 00:20:25.490
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:20:40.420 --> 00:20:44.009
- It was a Thursday
afternoon about 3 o\'clock.

00:20:44.010 --> 00:20:48.409
We were working in the lab,
wrapping up for the day.

00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:50.969
- Jim Charles asked
us to his office.

00:20:50.970 --> 00:20:52.759
I thought I was
being promoted again.

00:20:52.760 --> 00:20:54.709
- The first thing
he said was we don\'t

00:20:54.710 --> 00:20:56.709
do behavioral
pharmacology anymore.

00:20:56.710 --> 00:20:58.209
- Go downstairs
and kill your rats.

00:20:58.210 --> 00:20:59.469
- The studies will stop.

00:20:59.470 --> 00:21:00.390
- Turn over your keys.

00:21:00.391 --> 00:21:01.659
- The lab is closed.

00:21:01.660 --> 00:21:02.030
- Leave the building.

00:21:02.030 --> 00:21:02.830
- We had been deceived.

00:21:02.830 --> 00:21:03.490
- You\'re fired.

00:21:03.491 --> 00:21:06.240
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:19.979
- When we started working
on the tobacco story at ABC,

00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:22.999
we were told that the tobacco
companies were manipulating

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.379
nicotine to addict smokers.

00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:26.839
And we said, this
is sort of crazy,

00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:28.749
but if it\'s true it\'s
an important story.

00:21:28.750 --> 00:21:30.319
So we started digging into it.

00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:31.719
And we spent a year.

00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:34.289
We talked to more people
than I can imagine.

00:21:34.290 --> 00:21:35.729
We did all kinds of research.

00:21:35.730 --> 00:21:39.499
We read through industry
patents day after day.

00:21:39.500 --> 00:21:43.199
And the more we looked at it,
the more we said, oh my god.

00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.709
This is unbelievable.

00:21:45.710 --> 00:21:48.459
On the eve of airing,
the commissioner

00:21:48.460 --> 00:21:50.329
of the Food and
Drug Administration

00:21:50.330 --> 00:21:52.859
sends out a letter that
says, for the first time

00:21:52.860 --> 00:21:55.879
the federal government is going
to look at the tobacco industry

00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:57.709
and investigate the
tobacco industry.

00:21:57.710 --> 00:22:01.359
Something that had
never happened before.

00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:03.989
- We didn\'t know what was going
to be in the Day One broadcast.

00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:06.639
But we knew it wasn\'t
going to be a good story.

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:08.649
So we got a bunch
of the executives

00:22:08.650 --> 00:22:11.979
together in a big conference
room on the executive floor

00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:12.740
to watch it.

00:22:12.741 --> 00:22:14.949
It was even worse than we
thought it was going to be.

00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:16.909
It was devastating.

00:22:16.910 --> 00:22:18.819
- From these
tobacco fields comes

00:22:18.820 --> 00:22:21.569
one of the world\'s most
profitable and addictive

00:22:21.570 --> 00:22:22.839
substances.

00:22:22.840 --> 00:22:25.469
- I have never,
ever, ever gotten

00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:28.989
a reaction like the
one I did on Day One.

00:22:28.990 --> 00:22:32.269
It was a feeding frenzy
on the part of media.

00:22:32.270 --> 00:22:34.939
- Our stock took a huge hit.

00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:40.299
There were calls from
reporters, print, electronic.

00:22:40.300 --> 00:22:42.859
Regulators were
calling for hearings.

00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:47.069
And we really were at a
loss as to what to do.

00:22:47.070 --> 00:22:49.539
- I think what Day One
did that helped change

00:22:49.540 --> 00:22:54.989
the debate was they turned it
into not just as a story about

00:22:54.990 --> 00:22:58.869
\"Are cigarettes dangerous?\"
but that this company,

00:22:58.870 --> 00:23:03.599
this industry, was in
fact selling a drug.

00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:05.549
Not to put too
fine a point on it,

00:23:05.550 --> 00:23:10.019
but I mean one could conclude
that these people weren\'t

00:23:10.020 --> 00:23:12.419
that far removed
from drug dealers.

00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:16.749
They were selling a drug
that they knew was addictive.

00:23:16.750 --> 00:23:20.529
And they weren\'t telling
the truth about it.

00:23:20.530 --> 00:23:22.829
- When Congressman
Waxman got the letter

00:23:22.830 --> 00:23:25.399
from Dr. Kessler
that made it clear

00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:31.559
FDA had been investigating this
and had a lot of information,

00:23:31.560 --> 00:23:33.839
he decided to immediately
schedule a hearing.

00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:36.899
- None of us realized
that the tobacco industry

00:23:36.900 --> 00:23:39.639
was able to manipulate
the nicotine to get people

00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:41.619
to smoke and to
keep them smoking.

00:23:41.620 --> 00:23:45.679
And we wanted him to come in
and give us this presentation.

00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:47.959
- They said \"We\'re holding
a hearing in four weeks,

00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:51.649
and we want to know
what evidence existed.\"

00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:56.219
But we didn\'t even
know where to begin.

00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:59.199
- We were hot stuff
over there at ABC.

00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.519
It was this euphoria
that was sweeping

00:24:01.520 --> 00:24:05.469
through our program and,
frankly, the news division.

00:24:05.470 --> 00:24:08.169
We were leading the way on one
of the most important stories

00:24:08.170 --> 00:24:09.479
in America.

00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:11.709
- Our employees,
the analysts who

00:24:11.710 --> 00:24:13.539
cover the stock,
our shareholders

00:24:13.540 --> 00:24:15.719
were calling us
saying, \"Say something.

00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:17.219
Do something.

00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:20.229
Why aren\'t you responding to
what was in this broadcast?\"

00:24:20.230 --> 00:24:21.599
- Kessler knew
that we were going

00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:25.229
to be testifying before
Congress in four weeks.

00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:27.949
He looked in and around FDA
for trained, professional

00:24:27.950 --> 00:24:29.529
investigators.

00:24:29.530 --> 00:24:32.999
- One was a New York
City transit policeman;

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.999
worked at the Secret
Service, had a period of time

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.659
on his resume that
was blank, and where

00:24:38.660 --> 00:24:41.179
he couldn\'t talk
about what he did.

00:24:41.180 --> 00:24:45.689
The other worked at Army CID
was the government\'s best

00:24:45.690 --> 00:24:46.190
polygrapher.

00:24:46.191 --> 00:24:48.960
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:24:53.890 --> 00:24:56.159
- Someone had provided
us with the list

00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.459
of potential people
we could talk to.

00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:02.439
One of the names we
had was Victor DeNoble.

00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:06.669
And tracked down a number
for him, I called him.

00:25:06.670 --> 00:25:09.099
- He said he was investigating
the tobacco industry.

00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:11.269
I thought to myself, the
government doesn\'t do that.

00:25:11.270 --> 00:25:13.899
- He did not want us to come
to his home and meet him.

00:25:13.900 --> 00:25:16.289
He\'d want us to go to his
work place and meet him.

00:25:16.290 --> 00:25:18.999
- I knew I had information
the tobacco industry didn\'t

00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:21.109
want out.

00:25:21.110 --> 00:25:23.489
- \"Very skittish\", they told me.

00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:25.489
They had some very
brief contact.

00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:28.859
But I need to amass as
much evidence as I can.

00:25:28.860 --> 00:25:31.319
So I push Gary and Tom.

00:25:31.320 --> 00:25:33.619
Go meet with him
as soon as you can.

00:25:33.620 --> 00:25:36.839
Find out as much as
you could find out.

00:25:36.840 --> 00:25:41.269
- He asked that we meet him in
a hotel in Christiana, Delaware.

00:25:41.270 --> 00:25:44.069
And we\'d meet him in the lobby.

00:25:44.070 --> 00:25:46.099
- I needed to control
what was going to happen.

00:25:46.100 --> 00:25:48.419
I got there early.

00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:51.349
I picked out the table and the
chair I was going to sit at.

00:25:51.350 --> 00:25:54.810
I checked out an escape route,
just in case I needed one.

00:25:57.830 --> 00:26:00.679
I even checked
out the bathrooms.

00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.189
I\'m not sure what
I was looking for,

00:26:03.190 --> 00:26:05.459
but I had to do it anyways.

00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:07.379
- He described to us
what he would be wearing.

00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:09.449
We told him what we
would be wearing.

00:26:09.450 --> 00:26:11.489
- They both unbuttoned
their jackets to sit down.

00:26:11.490 --> 00:26:14.059
And as they bent over,
I could see a holster.

00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:15.819
They had guns.

00:26:15.820 --> 00:26:17.179
My radar went haywire.

00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:21.089
- He would turn around
and ask us our lineage.

00:26:21.090 --> 00:26:21.980
\"Where are you from?

00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:22.770
What are you doing?

00:26:22.771 --> 00:26:23.859
Why are you here?\"

00:26:23.860 --> 00:26:26.949
And then we would get
him back on task again.

00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:28.989
- I told them about the
nicotine analogue program

00:26:28.990 --> 00:26:30.319
and self-administration.

00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:33.479
- That may not sound
like a big deal,

00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:38.409
but self-administration is
the test that FDA, the DEA,

00:26:38.410 --> 00:26:39.909
the Drug Enforcement
Administration,

00:26:39.910 --> 00:26:45.419
and National Institute of Drug
Abuse decide whether to label

00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:49.249
a drug as a
controlled substance.

00:26:49.250 --> 00:26:52.089
- It was the first time somebody
from within the industry,

00:26:52.090 --> 00:26:54.989
who was knowledgeable
and very credible,

00:26:54.990 --> 00:26:57.459
had relayed that type
of information to us.

00:26:57.460 --> 00:26:59.749
- The strangest thing was,
he reached into his pocket

00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:03.089
and pulled out a photograph and
slid it across the table to us

00:27:03.090 --> 00:27:04.819
and said, \"Do you
recognize this man?\"

00:27:04.820 --> 00:27:08.389
And I looked at it,
didn\'t recognize him.

00:27:08.390 --> 00:27:09.190
I gave it to Gary.

00:27:09.190 --> 00:27:09.860
He looked at it.

00:27:09.861 --> 00:27:11.539
He didn\'t recognize him.

00:27:11.540 --> 00:27:14.979
We slid the photo back to
him and said, \"Who is it?\"

00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:16.479
He said, \"You don\'t
know who it is?\"

00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:17.410
I said no.

00:27:17.411 --> 00:27:19.829
He said, \"It\'s Dr. Kessler.\"

00:27:19.830 --> 00:27:24.549
- Here\'s two
investigators from the FDA

00:27:24.550 --> 00:27:30.789
and why don\'t they recognize
this picture of their boss.

00:27:30.790 --> 00:27:32.190
- I can\'t talk to you guys.

00:27:35.710 --> 00:27:38.179
- I remember the day
Tom and Gary called.

00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:42.529
I was working in my laboratory
at Bethesda Naval Hospital.

00:27:42.530 --> 00:27:45.019
And they indicated
they were from the FDA

00:27:45.020 --> 00:27:48.709
and wanted to ask some
questions about my previous work

00:27:48.710 --> 00:27:49.550
at Philip Morris.

00:27:49.551 --> 00:27:51.369
- Paul noticed that
we have firearms.

00:27:51.370 --> 00:27:53.839
He said, \"You can\'t bring
those things in here.

00:27:53.840 --> 00:27:55.089
Look at the sign right there.\"

00:27:55.090 --> 00:27:56.099
We said, \"It\'s OK, Paul.

00:27:56.100 --> 00:27:57.179
We\'re with the government.

00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.779
Those rules don\'t apply to us.\"

00:27:58.780 --> 00:28:01.309
- \"We can carry them on
an airplane if we wanted.\"

00:28:01.310 --> 00:28:04.229
My first response
was, I\'ve been waiting

00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:06.189
for this for about 10 years.

00:28:06.190 --> 00:28:11.199
- Paul Mele told
us about a paper

00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:14.339
that Philip Morris
forced Victor DeNoble

00:28:14.340 --> 00:28:17.789
to withdraw from publication.

00:28:17.790 --> 00:28:22.829
I got instantly the significance
of what I was seeing.

00:28:22.830 --> 00:28:25.339
How were we going
to talk about it

00:28:25.340 --> 00:28:29.009
at the congressional
hearings without it becoming

00:28:29.010 --> 00:28:34.019
the only thing that
people would focus on?

00:28:34.020 --> 00:28:37.039
- And why can\'t we know
the name of that company?

00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:39.229
- Mr. Chairman, I didn\'t
come here to talk about it.

00:28:39.230 --> 00:28:41.469
I was very careful
in my presentation

00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:45.129
not to focus on specific
brands or specific companies.

00:28:45.130 --> 00:28:48.519
And I\'d really rather
not get into that today.

00:28:48.520 --> 00:28:50.109
- There is a company
that you know

00:28:50.110 --> 00:28:53.409
of that did studies
in the 1980s that

00:28:53.410 --> 00:28:57.679
led them to understand
that nicotine is addicting.

00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:59.349
You\'re going to give
us that information

00:28:59.350 --> 00:29:00.669
about the name of the company.

00:29:00.670 --> 00:29:02.129
And unless you can
give me a reason

00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:03.969
not to reveal that
publicly, I plan

00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:07.549
to make that public because
I think the we ought to know

00:29:07.550 --> 00:29:10.899
a company that may
well be telling us

00:29:10.900 --> 00:29:16.439
they never knew about tobacco
nicotine being addicting.

00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:22.239
- This was one of the major
issues for the national media

00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.499
because secrets were coming out.

00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:28.149
And the secrets stood
in stark contrast

00:29:28.150 --> 00:29:30.109
to everything the tobacco
companies had ever

00:29:30.110 --> 00:29:33.379
said publicly about
their products.

00:29:33.380 --> 00:29:36.649
- Any group that has a very
powerful financial interest

00:29:36.650 --> 00:29:41.799
in battling to defend a product
or preserving the status quo

00:29:41.800 --> 00:29:46.079
is going to fight
more effectively,

00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:48.609
more strategically,
more ferociously

00:29:48.610 --> 00:29:51.309
than their opponents do.

00:29:51.310 --> 00:29:53.209
- It was intimidation.

00:29:53.210 --> 00:29:55.579
Intimidation
against our network,

00:29:55.580 --> 00:29:57.439
intimidation against
the reporters

00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:00.149
who knew the subject
better than anyone else.

00:30:00.150 --> 00:30:03.429
- Earlier this morning, Philip
Morris filed a $10 billion

00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:07.019
lawsuit against the American
Broadcasting Companies

00:30:07.020 --> 00:30:11.599
and several ABC employees for
false and defamatory statements

00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:16.359
made on ABC\'S Day One news
show and other news programs.

00:30:16.360 --> 00:30:18.429
- It wasn\'t about the
merits or what we said

00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:19.949
or what we didn\'t say.

00:30:19.950 --> 00:30:26.079
It was yet another very
smart public relations tactic

00:30:26.080 --> 00:30:28.919
by an industry that knew
how to do that kind of stuff

00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:30.289
better than anybody.

00:30:30.290 --> 00:30:34.429
- They came to our houses,
set up surveillance,

00:30:34.430 --> 00:30:37.899
took photographs of us
in front of our houses...

00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:41.019
Pictures of me on our front
lawn playing with my kids.

00:30:41.020 --> 00:30:43.839
Which was, as a federal
law enforcement officer,

00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:48.169
a startling notion to think that
you have investigated criminals

00:30:48.170 --> 00:30:53.189
all these years and it\'s lawyers
hired by a tobacco company that

00:30:53.190 --> 00:30:54.729
actually track you
down to your home

00:30:54.730 --> 00:30:56.439
and take pictures of
you and your family.

00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.179
- They went after Mitch on
perjury charges, Gary and Tom

00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:01.179
on Bivins actions.

00:31:01.180 --> 00:31:04.169
These were all
trumped up charges

00:31:04.170 --> 00:31:07.549
and it was all in an
effort to stop us.

00:31:07.550 --> 00:31:09.799
- There was going to be a
story in the Washington Post

00:31:09.800 --> 00:31:11.339
the next day that
I was being accused

00:31:11.340 --> 00:31:13.959
of lying under oath to Congress.

00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:16.389
When Peter Jennings
found out about this,

00:31:16.390 --> 00:31:18.169
he interviewed the
congressman who

00:31:18.170 --> 00:31:20.179
made the accusation against me.

00:31:20.180 --> 00:31:22.689
- This is the Holy Bible.

00:31:22.690 --> 00:31:23.930
I\'m a United Methodist.

00:31:27.060 --> 00:31:32.569
I swear that my concern
about FDA reform

00:31:32.570 --> 00:31:38.439
has absolutely nothing to
do whatsoever with tobacco.

00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.329
- When the tobacco
companies give you money,

00:31:41.330 --> 00:31:44.169
what do you think
they want from you?

00:31:44.170 --> 00:31:44.790
- I\'ve never...

00:31:44.791 --> 00:31:45.829
- There\'s quite a number.

00:31:45.830 --> 00:31:49.959
RGR gives you money, Brown
and Williamson, Philip Morris,

00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:53.750
US Tobacco, the Tobacco
Institute, Nabisco...

00:31:58.410 --> 00:32:02.379
- And so the viewer was left
to judge what had happened.

00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:05.489
When the Justice Department
dropped the investigation,

00:32:05.490 --> 00:32:08.450
I felt like, where do I go
to get my reputation back?

00:32:11.230 --> 00:32:12.899
- When you go to work
for Philip Morris,

00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:16.339
you sign a secrecy agreement,
and for the rest of your life

00:32:16.340 --> 00:32:19.289
you\'re not allowed to
divulge what you did there.

00:32:19.290 --> 00:32:22.329
- It indicated without
the rats being susceptible

00:32:22.330 --> 00:32:26.179
to advertisements or peer
pressure or anything else,

00:32:26.180 --> 00:32:29.369
they seem to be
addicted to nicotine...

00:32:29.370 --> 00:32:30.949
- Congressman Waxman
called me the day

00:32:30.950 --> 00:32:33.769
before the press conference
to give me a heads up.

00:32:33.770 --> 00:32:36.569
What he didn\'t
tell me was that he

00:32:36.570 --> 00:32:38.839
was going to hold up
the paper that I tried

00:32:38.840 --> 00:32:41.779
to publish in 1983 with
Philip Morris\' name on it.

00:32:41.780 --> 00:32:45.069
- The editor of the journal was
notified by the Philip Morris

00:32:45.070 --> 00:32:48.149
researcher that the article
was being withdrawn...

00:32:48.150 --> 00:32:49.279
- My heart just stopped.

00:32:49.280 --> 00:32:51.319
It was like, oh my god.

00:32:51.320 --> 00:32:52.689
How did they get this?

00:32:52.690 --> 00:32:54.959
And here it is on national TV.

00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.459
- We must hear directly from
the chief executive officers.

00:32:58.460 --> 00:32:59.859
These individuals
have been asked

00:32:59.860 --> 00:33:04.299
to appear before the
subcommittee on April 14, 1994.

00:33:04.300 --> 00:33:07.219
- Congressman Waxman, if these
executives do not respond

00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:08.589
favorably to your invitation...

00:33:08.590 --> 00:33:10.449
- I expect them to be there.

00:33:10.450 --> 00:33:13.909
- We were very unsure whether
they would agree to come.

00:33:13.910 --> 00:33:16.419
They had always refused before.

00:33:16.420 --> 00:33:19.639
And our plan was to hold the
hearing whether they came

00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.549
or not and we would
simply have empty chairs.

00:33:22.550 --> 00:33:26.350
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:33:37.840 --> 00:33:39.819
- We\'re going to
present a rosy face,

00:33:39.820 --> 00:33:42.059
and they\'ll see that we\'re
just people selling good

00:33:42.060 --> 00:33:44.799
old-fashioned American product.

00:33:44.800 --> 00:33:47.169
And we\'re going to make that
case to the American people.

00:33:47.170 --> 00:33:48.170
And who better to do it?

00:33:48.171 --> 00:33:51.610
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:34:02.100 --> 00:34:04.619
- I think the CEOs
calculated that they

00:34:04.620 --> 00:34:08.589
had enough juice in
Congress that somehow this

00:34:08.590 --> 00:34:10.579
would not be that bad.

00:34:10.580 --> 00:34:18.580
That they would not insult
these fine upstanding CEOs.

00:34:18.680 --> 00:34:23.169
Boy, I bet they wish they could
change their mind on that one.

00:34:23.170 --> 00:34:25.679
- Congressman Tom
Bliley from Virginia

00:34:25.680 --> 00:34:29.149
was a longtime friend
of the tobacco industry.

00:34:29.150 --> 00:34:32.549
He told us, \"This is not
going to be pleasant, but get

00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:36.739
in there, try to do no harm,
take your lumps, and get out.

00:34:36.740 --> 00:34:38.599
Try to make this
a one-day event.\"

00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:40.160
And that\'s what we tried to do.

00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.839
- So what do you expect
to happen this morning?

00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:48.289
What are you hoping for?

00:34:48.290 --> 00:34:51.109
- Here we have the men that
are responsible for running

00:34:51.110 --> 00:34:52.809
the corporations.

00:34:52.810 --> 00:34:55.389
I think they have an obligation
to the American people

00:34:55.390 --> 00:34:59.409
to answer questions honestly,
and to give us information

00:34:59.410 --> 00:35:01.949
that we\'re going to need
to make the best policy

00:35:01.950 --> 00:35:04.950
decisions regarding the
public health of this country.

00:35:19.290 --> 00:35:23.109
The meeting of the subcommittee
will come to order.

00:35:23.110 --> 00:35:25.749
For the first time ever,
the chief executive officers

00:35:25.750 --> 00:35:28.259
of our nation\'s
tobacco companies

00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:32.909
are testifying together before
the United States Congress.

00:35:32.910 --> 00:35:39.339
Imagine our nation\'s outrage
if two fully-loaded jumbo jets

00:35:39.340 --> 00:35:43.129
crashed each day,
killing all aboard.

00:35:43.130 --> 00:35:45.019
Yet that\'s the same
number of Americans

00:35:45.020 --> 00:35:49.319
that cigarettes
kill every 24 hours.

00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.289
The truth is nearly a
half million Americans

00:35:52.290 --> 00:35:56.579
die every year as a
result of tobacco.

00:35:56.580 --> 00:36:02.239
This is an astounding, almost
incomprehensible statistic.

00:36:02.240 --> 00:36:04.669
- Most congressional hearings
don\'t have a swearing in.

00:36:04.670 --> 00:36:07.199
It\'s very rare, in
fact, for witnesses

00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:09.669
to have to raise their
right hand and testify.

00:36:09.670 --> 00:36:14.229
This was clearly set up to
force the CEOs to either tell

00:36:14.230 --> 00:36:18.669
the truth or to necessarily
perjure themselves.

00:36:18.670 --> 00:36:20.319
- If you raise
your right hand, do

00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:22.799
you swear the testimony
you\'re about to give

00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.389
is the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?

00:36:25.390 --> 00:36:26.390
- I do.

00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:32.289
- Nicotine addiction is
something we now know at least

00:36:32.290 --> 00:36:34.869
one tobacco company
knew about it,

00:36:34.870 --> 00:36:36.839
and I believe they
all knew about it...

00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.289
- The information in
Dr. DeNoble\'s paper

00:36:39.290 --> 00:36:42.189
became a cornerstone of the
hearing and the questioning.

00:36:42.190 --> 00:36:45.209
- I\'m going to go right down
the row and ask each one

00:36:45.210 --> 00:36:46.289
a simple question.

00:36:46.290 --> 00:36:47.409
They\'re under oath.

00:36:47.410 --> 00:36:49.179
And we\'ll see what
their response is.

00:36:49.180 --> 00:36:50.389
I asked the first one.

00:36:50.390 --> 00:36:51.979
- I believe nicotine
is not addictive.

00:36:51.980 --> 00:36:52.560
Yes.

00:36:52.561 --> 00:36:53.599
- I asked the second one.

00:36:53.600 --> 00:36:55.509
- Cigarettes and
nicotine clearly

00:36:55.510 --> 00:36:58.799
do not meet the classic
definitions of addiction.

00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:00.229
There is no intoxications...

00:37:00.230 --> 00:37:01.389
- We\'ll take that as a no.

00:37:01.390 --> 00:37:02.090
Just yes or no.

00:37:02.091 --> 00:37:04.669
- I don\'t believe that nicotine
or our products are addictive.

00:37:04.670 --> 00:37:05.480
- is not addictive.

00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:06.470
- is not addictive.

00:37:06.470 --> 00:37:07.450
- is not addictive.

00:37:07.451 --> 00:37:08.929
- Not addictive.

00:37:08.930 --> 00:37:12.049
- Mr. Horrigan, did this group
discuss the need to state

00:37:12.050 --> 00:37:14.079
clearly in the same
words, as you all did,

00:37:14.080 --> 00:37:15.959
in the same words that
nicotine is not add...

00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:17.529
- That\'s absolutely outrageous.

00:37:17.530 --> 00:37:18.530
- What is outrageous...?

00:37:18.531 --> 00:37:21.559
- That is outrageous for you
to assume that we meet and talk

00:37:21.560 --> 00:37:22.420
about these issues.

00:37:22.421 --> 00:37:24.349
We are competitors.

00:37:24.350 --> 00:37:25.419
We\'re independent.

00:37:25.420 --> 00:37:27.749
We\'re fighting for survival
in a legitimate marketplace.

00:37:27.750 --> 00:37:32.039
- It\'s very difficult for
me to find you at this table

00:37:32.040 --> 00:37:34.359
characterizing anything
as outrageous after seven

00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:36.609
apparently intelligent people
have stood here and told

00:37:36.610 --> 00:37:39.689
the American people... 250
million of which know better...

00:37:39.690 --> 00:37:41.709
That cigarettes
are not addictive.

00:37:41.710 --> 00:37:43.159
What could be more ridiculous?

00:37:43.160 --> 00:37:45.489
So if we sit up here a little
skeptical of your answer

00:37:45.490 --> 00:37:48.359
in other areas,
you\'ll understand why.

00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:53.009
- We had no idea that it would
be as intense and as hostile

00:37:53.010 --> 00:37:54.059
as it was.

00:37:54.060 --> 00:37:58.779
The anger among members of
that committee was palpable.

00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:01.179
- Gentleman, the
subcommittee contacted

00:38:01.180 --> 00:38:04.379
Dr. DeNoble, Mr. Campbell, to
ask his version of the events.

00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:06.879
And Dr. DeNoble informed
the subcommittee

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.149
that he would be
unable to talk to us

00:38:09.150 --> 00:38:12.409
because it may be subject to
a confidentiality agreement

00:38:12.410 --> 00:38:14.399
that he has with your
company, Philip Morris.

00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:18.399
- We thought if Mike Synar
asked the question in public

00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:21.359
of Mr. Campbell, if
he said no he couldn\'t

00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.049
come in and testify,
it was obvious

00:38:23.050 --> 00:38:25.099
that Philip Morris
was trying to cover up

00:38:25.100 --> 00:38:26.859
what he might have to say.

00:38:26.860 --> 00:38:30.059
- Mr. Campbell, will
you release Dr. DeNoble

00:38:30.060 --> 00:38:31.849
from his confidentiality
agreement

00:38:31.850 --> 00:38:34.139
so that he can
appear voluntarily

00:38:34.140 --> 00:38:39.539
before this subcommittee to
tell us what really happened?

00:38:39.540 --> 00:38:42.119
- I don\'t know of the
confidentiality agreement,

00:38:42.120 --> 00:38:42.980
so I\'d have to have
an investigation,

00:38:42.981 --> 00:38:44.019
but then I will answer...

00:38:44.020 --> 00:38:46.529
- Will you release
Dr. DeNoble from

00:38:46.530 --> 00:38:48.509
any contractual
arrangements that

00:38:48.510 --> 00:38:50.239
would allow him to
voluntarily testify

00:38:50.240 --> 00:38:51.279
before this subcommittee?

00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:53.919
- Dr. DeNoble is quite on record
in a number of depositions...

00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:54.710
- Yes or no.

00:38:54.711 --> 00:38:57.089
Will you allow Dr. DeNoble
to come forward...?

00:38:57.090 --> 00:38:58.839
- I\'d see no problem,
and our people

00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:00.289
will discuss it with you.

00:39:00.290 --> 00:39:00.790
- No.

00:39:00.790 --> 00:39:01.790
That\'s not the question.

00:39:01.791 --> 00:39:03.889
Mr. Campbell...

00:39:03.890 --> 00:39:07.339
Will you release him
from that agreement?

00:39:07.340 --> 00:39:09.129
- Can I check with my
counsel at this time?

00:39:09.130 --> 00:39:10.050
- I just want to know.

00:39:10.051 --> 00:39:11.789
You\'re the chairman
of the board...

00:39:11.790 --> 00:39:12.630
- No I\'m not, sir.

00:39:12.631 --> 00:39:14.549
But I\'m just the
president, but...

00:39:14.550 --> 00:39:16.039
- Mr. Synar...

00:39:16.040 --> 00:39:18.879
- Bill turned over his
shoulder and looked at me

00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:20.389
and I said, \"Release him.

00:39:20.390 --> 00:39:22.839
Wave the agreement.\"

00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:23.510
- We\'ll do it.

00:39:23.511 --> 00:39:26.119
Sure.

00:39:26.120 --> 00:39:28.349
- Even if you totally
disbelieved them,

00:39:28.350 --> 00:39:30.869
you couldn\'t prove they
were being untruthful.

00:39:30.870 --> 00:39:34.649
Maybe the most you could say
was they\'re true believers,

00:39:34.650 --> 00:39:38.139
they\'re delusional, they\'re out
to defend the product to such

00:39:38.140 --> 00:39:42.309
a degree that they\'re not
looking at the facts clearly,

00:39:42.310 --> 00:39:44.479
but they seem to really
believe what they\'re saying.

00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:48.189
- The tobacco companies also
waged a major public relations

00:39:48.190 --> 00:39:50.619
campaign to denounce Congress.

00:39:50.620 --> 00:39:52.329
They claimed the
hearing was overbearing,

00:39:52.330 --> 00:39:55.799
they were mistreated,
Congress was out of control.

00:39:55.800 --> 00:40:00.059
- They had no intention of
letting these executives answer

00:40:00.060 --> 00:40:01.619
questions in a complete way.

00:40:01.620 --> 00:40:02.839
They were cut off.

00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:04.559
They were told to
answer yes or no.

00:40:04.560 --> 00:40:06.229
And the when they
answered yes or no,

00:40:06.230 --> 00:40:10.429
they were accused of
rehearsing their answers.

00:40:10.430 --> 00:40:13.549
- The way that committee
handled those witnesses was

00:40:13.550 --> 00:40:15.799
absolutely inexcusable.

00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:17.109
It smacked of McCarthyism.

00:40:17.110 --> 00:40:18.609
- We\'re gonna ban
it in restaurants.

00:40:18.610 --> 00:40:19.869
Then we\'re gonna ban
it in public buildings.

00:40:19.870 --> 00:40:21.079
Then we\'re gonna ban
it in your backyard.

00:40:21.080 --> 00:40:22.429
Then we\'re gonna ban
it in your house.

00:40:22.430 --> 00:40:23.300
We\'re gonna ban it
in your bedroom.

00:40:23.301 --> 00:40:24.899
We\'re gonna ban it
in your bathroom.

00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:28.299
That\'s just a slow but sure
encroachment of your freedoms.

00:40:28.300 --> 00:40:30.509
Bunch of liberals telling
you what\'s good for you.

00:40:30.510 --> 00:40:32.519
What you shouldn\'t
do, should do.

00:40:32.520 --> 00:40:34.259
What you can and can\'t
do, \'cause what\'s

00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:36.541
good and bad for
you only they know.

00:40:40.770 --> 00:40:42.809
- I should tell you we
knew his testimony was

00:40:42.810 --> 00:40:43.929
going to hurt the industry.

00:40:43.930 --> 00:40:48.309
I mean it really undermined
their credibility.

00:40:48.310 --> 00:40:51.249
He had done very, very
sophisticated research

00:40:51.250 --> 00:40:52.939
on tobacco addiction.

00:40:52.940 --> 00:40:56.959
And he had done it before
it was accepted that tobacco

00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:00.129
was addictive, and
it had to stand up.

00:41:00.130 --> 00:41:02.649
- We met with Waxman\'s
staff and Kessler\'s staff.

00:41:02.650 --> 00:41:06.709
- They knew more about
self-administration than

00:41:06.710 --> 00:41:08.429
the vast majority of scientists.

00:41:08.430 --> 00:41:14.359
DeNoble and Mele had
gotten the science right.

00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:16.569
- Once we walked
in the front door,

00:41:16.570 --> 00:41:19.919
there were media
people everywhere.

00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.929
And I was told that C-SPAN
would be showing this live.

00:41:23.930 --> 00:41:25.290
There was no turning back.

00:41:27.540 --> 00:41:29.789
- Just before the hearing
began, I looked over at Paul

00:41:29.790 --> 00:41:31.899
and I smiled.

00:41:31.900 --> 00:41:34.739
I began to feel a
huge weight disappear.

00:41:34.740 --> 00:41:36.609
All these years of
not being able to talk

00:41:36.610 --> 00:41:39.890
about the science and we were
about to tell the entire world.

00:41:43.210 --> 00:41:46.719
- We are pleased to welcome
you both to our subcommittee

00:41:46.720 --> 00:41:48.229
hearing today.

00:41:48.230 --> 00:41:48.970
You were both...

00:41:48.971 --> 00:41:51.569
Victor DeNoble was the
first whistleblower.

00:41:51.570 --> 00:41:52.989
I know a lot of
people have talked

00:41:52.990 --> 00:41:56.159
about other whistleblowers,
but he was the first one.

00:41:56.160 --> 00:41:58.009
- At that point we
gave a presentation

00:41:58.010 --> 00:42:04.739
to several members of
New York corporate staff,

00:42:04.740 --> 00:42:06.539
entertained questions,
had lunch, and then

00:42:06.540 --> 00:42:08.799
were flown back that
evening on the company jet.

00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:10.169
- What kind of
questions were you

00:42:10.170 --> 00:42:12.109
asked at the New York briefing?

00:42:12.110 --> 00:42:14.069
- I was only asked one question.

00:42:14.070 --> 00:42:14.890
- What was that?

00:42:14.891 --> 00:42:17.549
- Why should I risk a
billion dollar industry

00:42:17.550 --> 00:42:21.669
on rats pressing a
lever to get nicotine?

00:42:21.670 --> 00:42:23.729
- Where these top
management people?

00:42:23.730 --> 00:42:25.999
- Yes, they were.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.359
- I remember I
received a phone call

00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:30.799
from my mother, who
had received a phone

00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.619
call from one of her friends.

00:42:32.620 --> 00:42:35.419
And she called and she said,
\"Victor\'s on television.\"

00:42:35.420 --> 00:42:38.639
- And of course a lot of
friend of mine, good friends,

00:42:38.640 --> 00:42:40.429
called him...

00:42:40.430 --> 00:42:45.159
what do they call
those people that talk?

00:42:45.160 --> 00:42:46.000
- Informant?

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:46.500
- Who?

00:42:46.501 --> 00:42:47.739
- Informant?

00:42:47.740 --> 00:42:49.369
- Something like that.

00:42:49.370 --> 00:42:53.419
And a couple of them
really ticked me off.

00:42:53.420 --> 00:42:55.899
Listen, you\'re
talking about my kid.

00:42:55.900 --> 00:42:57.419
You don\'t do that.

00:42:57.420 --> 00:42:58.589
Take it for what it\'s worth.

00:42:58.590 --> 00:43:03.209
Whatever he\'s doing he\'s doing
for everybody, not for himself.

00:43:03.210 --> 00:43:07.369
- Were you told a couple
of weeks after the meeting

00:43:07.370 --> 00:43:09.709
that your lab was
generating information

00:43:09.710 --> 00:43:12.739
that the company did not want
generated inside the company?

00:43:12.740 --> 00:43:14.699
- We were told that the
data we were generating

00:43:14.700 --> 00:43:17.749
and the types of studies
that we were doing

00:43:17.750 --> 00:43:20.169
would not be favorable
in that litigation.

00:43:20.170 --> 00:43:22.729
- Were you told that top
management was looking

00:43:22.730 --> 00:43:25.879
at releasing you and your
associate from employment

00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:27.499
and look at some
other arrangement?

00:43:27.500 --> 00:43:28.070
- Ah, yes.

00:43:28.071 --> 00:43:30.519
Employ us as
contract individuals.

00:43:30.520 --> 00:43:32.829
- Gentlemen yield...?

00:43:32.830 --> 00:43:36.419
- Those options were to have you
do the work, but not in-house.

00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:37.280
- That is correct.

00:43:37.281 --> 00:43:38.489
- Did they give you a reason?

00:43:38.490 --> 00:43:40.459
- If the work were
removed from the company,

00:43:40.460 --> 00:43:42.529
connecting it back
to the company

00:43:42.530 --> 00:43:45.029
would be more difficult
to do than if it\'s

00:43:45.030 --> 00:43:48.289
being done right in
the company itself.

00:43:48.290 --> 00:43:50.059
- Doctor, let me move on.

00:43:50.060 --> 00:43:52.989
What did you feel like
on April 14, 1994,

00:43:52.990 --> 00:43:56.019
as you watched the testimony
of the seven chief executives?

00:43:56.020 --> 00:43:59.929
What has this told you
about the character

00:43:59.930 --> 00:44:02.410
and the trustworthiness
of this industry?

00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.549
- It\'s difficult to
watch those hearings

00:44:14.550 --> 00:44:17.110
and to feel good about
what happened to us.

00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:22.349
- When Victor and Paul
testified before Congress,

00:44:22.350 --> 00:44:25.849
it was the first time that
anyone that was inside

00:44:25.850 --> 00:44:29.509
the industry... that had that
kind of detailed knowledge

00:44:29.510 --> 00:44:32.829
about the thinking and the
research that was being done

00:44:32.830 --> 00:44:35.499
inside the largest tobacco
company in the country...

00:44:35.500 --> 00:44:38.169
It was the first time someone
like that came forward.

00:44:38.170 --> 00:44:40.649
And they came forward
in this most public

00:44:40.650 --> 00:44:42.749
of settings, a
congressional hearing

00:44:42.750 --> 00:44:45.469
where they testified
under oath what they knew.

00:44:45.470 --> 00:44:49.729
It was the first time anyone had
seen that type of information.

00:44:49.730 --> 00:44:52.699
And I think that
moment changed things.

00:44:52.700 --> 00:44:56.429
That moment... the
public, Congress,

00:44:56.430 --> 00:45:00.469
the press got to see that there
was a different story here than

00:45:00.470 --> 00:45:02.790
we\'ve been told for
a very long time.

00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.499
I remember vividly
getting a phone call

00:45:10.500 --> 00:45:13.759
from a source who
said, \"Keith, you\'ve

00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:16.119
heard about those Brown
and Williamson documents?

00:45:16.120 --> 00:45:17.499
Do you want them?\"

00:45:17.500 --> 00:45:22.349
And it\'s the kind of phone
call a reporter lives for.

00:45:22.350 --> 00:45:26.379
- I had to fly to someplace in
the Midwest to some motel room

00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:28.889
where the hand-off was made.

00:45:28.890 --> 00:45:31.849
And I remember flying
back to New York,

00:45:31.850 --> 00:45:34.389
on the plane I didn\'t want
somebody next to me seeing them

00:45:34.390 --> 00:45:36.349
because these were so explosive.

00:45:36.350 --> 00:45:37.889
- It was nothing
like we\'d ever seen.

00:45:37.890 --> 00:45:43.079
Imagine 50 years of the
secrets of an industry that

00:45:43.080 --> 00:45:46.149
had kept secrets better
than any industry.

00:45:46.150 --> 00:45:49.259
Documents going back
to the \'40s and \'50s

00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:52.149
about nicotine, about
addiction, about marketing.

00:45:52.150 --> 00:45:53.649
- Maybe the second
one I was reading

00:45:53.650 --> 00:45:56.709
I could feel my heart
beating faster and thinking,

00:45:56.710 --> 00:45:59.179
this is as clear as
I\'ve ever seen it

00:45:59.180 --> 00:46:01.789
and this is out of
their mouths, not mine.

00:46:01.790 --> 00:46:04.089
This is the kind of
thing that the opponents

00:46:04.090 --> 00:46:07.019
would say they would say.

00:46:07.020 --> 00:46:08.499
And here it was.

00:46:08.500 --> 00:46:12.659
The first set of stories was a
three part series on the fact

00:46:12.660 --> 00:46:15.889
that the tobacco companies knew
these things over many years,

00:46:15.890 --> 00:46:17.969
and denied them.

00:46:17.970 --> 00:46:21.979
- Any doubts that the
viewing public or citizens

00:46:21.980 --> 00:46:25.309
are having about whether these
guys are completely truthful

00:46:25.310 --> 00:46:28.219
hardened into certainty when
these documents came out.

00:46:28.220 --> 00:46:30.809
- Everyone was
writing about tobacco.

00:46:30.810 --> 00:46:32.239
Everyone.

00:46:32.240 --> 00:46:34.729
They didn\'t know what to do.

00:46:34.730 --> 00:46:38.469
One after another,
these CEOs moved

00:46:38.470 --> 00:46:39.919
to pursue other interests.

00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.059
\"Well, I was going
to retire anyhow.\"

00:46:42.060 --> 00:46:44.399
\"Oh, I want to work
on my golf game.\"

00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.659
I don\'t know what
excuses they were giving.

00:46:46.660 --> 00:46:48.460
But they got them out.

00:46:56.490 --> 00:46:58.449
- \"Doc\", he said, \"my
name is Wendell Gauthier,

00:46:58.450 --> 00:47:00.989
and I\'m the best goddamn
lawyer you ever going to see.\"

00:47:00.990 --> 00:47:03.159
He said, \"I\'m watching you
on television and dammit,

00:47:03.160 --> 00:47:04.579
you\'re good.

00:47:04.580 --> 00:47:07.749
Me and you, we\'re taking
the sons of bitches down.\"

00:47:07.750 --> 00:47:09.839
And that\'s what he
left on my phone.

00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:11.569
I didn\'t know who this guy was.

00:47:11.570 --> 00:47:12.390
- Hey.

00:47:12.391 --> 00:47:13.689
How\'s it going?

00:47:13.690 --> 00:47:17.459
- Wendell Gauthier was an
attorney from New Orleans.

00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:21.239
And he had worked on the San
Juan DuPont Plaza Hotel fire,

00:47:21.240 --> 00:47:27.009
on the MGM Grand Hotel
fire... big cases.

00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:29.819
- Wendell decided
that it was time

00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:32.349
to sue the cigarette industry.

00:47:32.350 --> 00:47:35.489
At the time, I said you must
be out of your freaking mind.

00:47:35.490 --> 00:47:37.149
This is... they\'ve
never lost a case.

00:47:37.150 --> 00:47:38.199
It\'s impossible.

00:47:38.200 --> 00:47:40.039
- Their batting average was...

00:47:40.040 --> 00:47:42.739
made Ted Williams
look like a loser.

00:47:42.740 --> 00:47:44.279
Their batting average
was a thousand.

00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:46.059
They had never lost.

00:47:46.060 --> 00:47:48.769
- Even if it cost them a
million dollars or 10 million

00:47:48.770 --> 00:47:50.919
to fight your claim,
they would do it

00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:52.419
just so that you
would know you were

00:47:52.420 --> 00:47:53.709
in for the battle of your life.

00:47:53.710 --> 00:47:56.059
So it was a very important
bragging point for them.

00:47:56.060 --> 00:47:58.269
That they had never backed
down and settled the case.

00:47:58.270 --> 00:47:59.350
And they never had.

00:48:08.330 --> 00:48:12.509
- I have a right to rely
on the manufacturer who

00:48:12.510 --> 00:48:15.359
knows more about his
product than anyone else.

00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:18.289
If he says it\'s not
addicting, I should

00:48:18.290 --> 00:48:20.749
be entitled to believe
that it\'s not addicting.

00:48:20.750 --> 00:48:21.630
He made it.

00:48:21.631 --> 00:48:24.169
- I had never heard anybody talk
about the industry this way.

00:48:24.170 --> 00:48:25.410
I had to meet this guy.

00:48:29.270 --> 00:48:31.469
My first morning
in New Orleans they

00:48:31.470 --> 00:48:33.790
brought me to a room
full of lawyers.

00:48:37.600 --> 00:48:39.179
They started asking
me these questions

00:48:39.180 --> 00:48:40.869
like did I have a
phone directory,

00:48:40.870 --> 00:48:43.749
did I know the
corporate structure?

00:48:43.750 --> 00:48:46.789
These guys had no knowledge
of the internal workings

00:48:46.790 --> 00:48:49.389
of this industry and
they had just sued them.

00:48:49.390 --> 00:48:50.999
They had never had
the opportunity

00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:53.909
to talk to somebody
who was on the inside.

00:48:53.910 --> 00:48:54.989
I met with Wendell.

00:48:54.990 --> 00:48:58.439
He looked at me and he
said, \'What do you want?\"

00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.819
I said, \"I\'m not sure I
understand what you mean.\"

00:49:00.820 --> 00:49:01.989
\"I want you to work with me.

00:49:01.990 --> 00:49:02.910
What do you want?

00:49:02.911 --> 00:49:04.679
You want money?

00:49:04.680 --> 00:49:06.559
You want drugs?

00:49:06.560 --> 00:49:09.359
You want women?\"

00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:12.409
He said, \"You tell us what
you want and we\'ll get it.\"

00:49:12.410 --> 00:49:15.939
And I looked at him and I said,
\"I want to be treated fairly.\"

00:49:15.940 --> 00:49:19.129
I said, \"I want you to treat
me fairly and cover my ass,

00:49:19.130 --> 00:49:22.639
and do not get me in trouble.\"

00:49:22.640 --> 00:49:24.269
And he looked at me
and shook his head.

00:49:24.270 --> 00:49:27.569
He goes, \"I knew you
were the right man.\"

00:49:27.570 --> 00:49:32.989
- Since 1954 tobacco had
said, you\'ll never beat us.

00:49:32.990 --> 00:49:34.939
We\'ll bankrupt you.

00:49:34.940 --> 00:49:40.369
And that would have probably
been true for a single firm.

00:49:40.370 --> 00:49:45.329
But for 60 dogs
on a single bone,

00:49:45.330 --> 00:49:49.039
we felt that we had
a real shot at it.

00:49:49.040 --> 00:49:52.019
- Everybody in the group
was very experienced,

00:49:52.020 --> 00:49:54.619
had been in the
game a long time,

00:49:54.620 --> 00:49:56.979
knew what they were
doing, and we all

00:49:56.980 --> 00:50:01.359
had big egos so off we went.

00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:05.909
- The Castano Group came up
with a creative idea of filing

00:50:05.910 --> 00:50:09.999
a class action suit on behalf
of all addicted U.S. smokers,

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.309
the idea being that the tobacco
companies owed them damages

00:50:13.310 --> 00:50:16.049
because it had lied to them
about the addictiveness

00:50:16.050 --> 00:50:18.329
of nicotine.

00:50:18.330 --> 00:50:21.859
It was a coup to get Victor
DeNoble to work with them.

00:50:21.860 --> 00:50:25.819
Here all of a sudden is this
important addiction scientist

00:50:25.820 --> 00:50:28.719
for Phillip Morris
becoming the first person

00:50:28.720 --> 00:50:29.899
to come out publicly.

00:50:29.900 --> 00:50:31.989
And he\'s working
with the Castanos,

00:50:31.990 --> 00:50:34.709
and it signals that
they\'re for real

00:50:34.710 --> 00:50:37.169
and that the tobacco
companies aren\'t

00:50:37.170 --> 00:50:39.269
going to be able to keep
their secrets anymore.

00:50:39.270 --> 00:50:41.429
- The tobacco industry
is very sharp.

00:50:41.430 --> 00:50:42.819
They didn\'t send one document.

00:50:42.820 --> 00:50:45.539
If you asked for a document,
they sent you 500 documents.

00:50:45.540 --> 00:50:46.969
And they let you
figure out which

00:50:46.970 --> 00:50:48.450
was the right one to look at.

00:50:51.230 --> 00:50:53.779
So that\'s why they
hired me, of course.

00:50:53.780 --> 00:50:55.189
Of those 500
documents, these are

00:50:55.190 --> 00:50:56.399
the three that are important.

00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:58.329
The other ones, they\'re nothing

00:50:58.330 --> 00:51:00.719
- Victor was our mentor.

00:51:00.720 --> 00:51:03.209
- Not just an expert,
not just a witness.

00:51:03.210 --> 00:51:04.859
A great teacher.

00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:10.869
- After a few days of smoking
those receptors were ignited.

00:51:10.870 --> 00:51:14.739
Once ignited, they stay
ignited for your life.

00:51:14.740 --> 00:51:17.309
If this happens with the
dopamine in the brain

00:51:17.310 --> 00:51:18.769
and what are these
little things?

00:51:18.770 --> 00:51:22.519
And how do these little things
attach to the other molecules?

00:51:22.520 --> 00:51:26.999
Each cell releases
four \"dopemines.\"

00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:27.940
However...

00:51:27.940 --> 00:51:28.610
\"dopamine\", huh?

00:51:28.611 --> 00:51:29.879
Am I saying it right?

00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:31.089
- Dopamine.

00:51:31.090 --> 00:51:32.199
- Dopamine.

00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:32.950
Dopamine.

00:51:32.951 --> 00:51:37.719
The more we learned, the more I
think obsessive we all became.

00:51:37.720 --> 00:51:40.049
- In 21 days, about three
weeks, that rat will wake up.

00:51:40.050 --> 00:51:42.129
He will clean himself, he
will eat, he will drink.

00:51:42.130 --> 00:51:43.499
No.

00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:45.399
He does none of those
things in three weeks.

00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:46.000
He wakes up.

00:51:46.001 --> 00:51:47.149
The first thing he
does in the morning

00:51:47.150 --> 00:51:48.279
goes over to that switch.

00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:51.719
[BANGING]

00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:55.379
- And they were hitting
that switch 90 times a day,

00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:58.519
and they needed nicotine.

00:51:58.520 --> 00:52:02.449
In fact, they... the first thing
they did in the morning was

00:52:02.450 --> 00:52:04.759
to hit that switch,
just like a smoker.

00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:06.629
And the last thing
they did at night

00:52:06.630 --> 00:52:09.759
was hit that switch,
just like a smoker.

00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:14.119
And I said, King Chicabobo.

00:52:14.120 --> 00:52:15.669
King Chicabobo.

00:52:15.670 --> 00:52:23.670
That\'s a sort of an expression
Louisiana lawyers use

00:52:23.710 --> 00:52:26.709
when you got the jackpot.

00:52:26.710 --> 00:52:30.440
When you got the good stuff.

00:52:38.970 --> 00:52:40.429
- It\'s time to stop, people.

00:52:40.430 --> 00:52:42.059
I mean, what are we doing?

00:52:42.060 --> 00:52:44.059
Think about it.

00:52:44.060 --> 00:52:46.659
We have targeted children.

00:52:46.660 --> 00:52:51.209
And if you don\'t believe me,
ride by the school ground.

00:52:51.210 --> 00:52:53.679
And it didn\'t start
because of peer pressure.

00:52:53.680 --> 00:52:56.209
It started because
adults advertise to them.

00:52:56.210 --> 00:52:58.439
And dammit, it\'s time to stop.

00:52:58.440 --> 00:52:58.940
Come on.

00:52:58.941 --> 00:53:00.189
I mean, this is America.

00:53:00.190 --> 00:53:01.709
We can\'t tolerate that.

00:53:01.710 --> 00:53:05.069
You people in the press
have got to join us.

00:53:05.070 --> 00:53:08.469
You got to make it so horrible
that they won\'t want to do it.

00:53:08.470 --> 00:53:10.669
You got more stroke than we got.

00:53:10.670 --> 00:53:14.599
Now dammit, it\'s time to wake
up and not let this go on.

00:53:14.600 --> 00:53:16.899
- He was talking
about kids, and how

00:53:16.900 --> 00:53:19.519
people should be outraged
that the tobacco industry was

00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:21.639
seducing these kids.

00:53:21.640 --> 00:53:23.729
He was angry and
he was frustrated

00:53:23.730 --> 00:53:26.779
and he wanted the public
to feel the same way.

00:53:26.780 --> 00:53:27.280
- Morning.

00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:28.190
- Good morning.

00:53:28.191 --> 00:53:29.539
Today\'s going to be it, eh?

00:53:29.540 --> 00:53:33.889
- When you create enough
noise a lot of things happen.

00:53:33.890 --> 00:53:37.459
And my job was to create
as much noise as possible.

00:53:37.460 --> 00:53:42.109
There were about 800
documents, and I gave people

00:53:42.110 --> 00:53:43.899
one at a time.

00:53:43.900 --> 00:53:45.949
They were the currency
that the media wanted.

00:53:45.950 --> 00:53:47.549
And I was pretty
upfront about it.

00:53:47.550 --> 00:53:51.159
If the Wall Street Journal did
a bad article or article that

00:53:51.160 --> 00:53:55.169
wasn\'t up to snuff, I\'d
say OK, and give a document

00:53:55.170 --> 00:53:56.529
to the New York Times.

00:53:56.530 --> 00:53:59.029
So I started a competition
between the Wall Street

00:53:59.030 --> 00:54:00.839
Journal and the New York Times.

00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:04.169
I even had USA Today
and the Washington Post

00:54:04.170 --> 00:54:06.859
going at each other.

00:54:06.860 --> 00:54:08.789
- Plaintiff attorneys
understood very clearly

00:54:08.790 --> 00:54:11.879
that it was very much in
their strategic interest

00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:16.589
to have negative stories
about the tobacco industry

00:54:16.590 --> 00:54:21.019
in the press, so they
abetted this cause

00:54:21.020 --> 00:54:23.889
by leaking documents
to the media.

00:54:23.890 --> 00:54:27.039
- Whenever tobacco had
a victory in court,

00:54:27.040 --> 00:54:29.859
I would give the media
some new documents

00:54:29.860 --> 00:54:31.460
and it would crush their morale.

00:54:35.350 --> 00:54:37.099
They thought they had
this big thing going

00:54:37.100 --> 00:54:39.999
and then the next day the
story in the newspaper was \"You

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.489
did this in 1952.

00:54:42.490 --> 00:54:50.490
Blah Blah Blah.\"

00:54:53.380 --> 00:54:57.569
- Sometime in May of
1994, I got together

00:54:57.570 --> 00:54:58.939
with a bunch of
different lawyers

00:54:58.940 --> 00:55:02.599
who\'d agreed to file lawsuits
suing the tobacco industry.

00:55:02.600 --> 00:55:07.149
And just like at the Alamo, I
said if we file this lawsuit,

00:55:07.150 --> 00:55:09.639
everybody\'s in and
there\'s no getting out.

00:55:09.640 --> 00:55:12.459
I don\'t care how tough
it gets, how bad it gets,

00:55:12.460 --> 00:55:14.819
how much money it costs,
there\'s no getting out.

00:55:14.820 --> 00:55:17.959
If you\'re going to get in, you
got to stay in until the end.

00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:21.279
I said, I\'m going to draw this
imaginary line on the carpet...

00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:22.739
Which I did with my foot.

00:55:22.740 --> 00:55:25.669
Everybody that agrees to those
things step over the line.

00:55:25.670 --> 00:55:28.969
So it sounds kind of funny,
but one after the other,

00:55:28.970 --> 00:55:30.879
after the other
stepped over the line

00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:32.679
until all of us in
the room were there.

00:55:32.680 --> 00:55:34.519
And we all shake
hands and said, \"OK.

00:55:34.520 --> 00:55:38.819
We\'re going to do this thing.\"

00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:41.959
- For the first time,
you have this movement

00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:44.599
of lawsuits being
filed by attorneys

00:55:44.600 --> 00:55:48.509
general to recover health care
costs from tobacco companies.

00:55:48.510 --> 00:55:50.869
Not being filed on
behalf of sick smokers

00:55:50.870 --> 00:55:54.029
that the general public thinks
should have known better

00:55:54.030 --> 00:55:56.899
and shouldn\'t get sick
and then file a lawsuit.

00:55:56.900 --> 00:55:58.659
But being filed
on behalf of them,

00:55:58.660 --> 00:56:02.319
the taxpayers, who are innocent
victims of all this cost

00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:03.740
associated with smoking.

00:56:07.950 --> 00:56:11.329
- Back in the 1990s, I was in
charge of the Massachusetts

00:56:11.330 --> 00:56:14.229
Department of Public Health\'s
tobacco control program.

00:56:14.230 --> 00:56:16.989
We were airing 30
second television ads.

00:56:16.990 --> 00:56:20.289
In that campaign, we
featured former insiders

00:56:20.290 --> 00:56:21.619
telling the truth to kids.

00:56:21.620 --> 00:56:24.379
We found this resonated
very well with young people.

00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:26.149
- One tobacco company
conducted research

00:56:26.150 --> 00:56:27.749
that proved nicotine
has properties

00:56:27.750 --> 00:56:29.239
of an addictive drug.

00:56:29.240 --> 00:56:31.579
I\'m Victor DeNoble,
the scientist

00:56:31.580 --> 00:56:33.009
who directed the research.

00:56:33.010 --> 00:56:35.299
- Greg wanted me to come
up and talk to some kids.

00:56:35.300 --> 00:56:35.880
I said, \"Kids?

00:56:35.881 --> 00:56:37.059
Are you serious?

00:56:37.060 --> 00:56:38.219
What do I tell them?\"

00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:40.349
He said, \"You\'re a scientist.

00:56:40.350 --> 00:56:41.449
Tell them about rats.

00:56:41.450 --> 00:56:45.219
They\'ll listen.\"

00:56:45.220 --> 00:56:46.599
My name\'s Victor DeNoble.

00:56:46.600 --> 00:56:48.219
I\'m a scientist.

00:56:48.220 --> 00:56:49.269
I don\'t work with people.

00:56:49.270 --> 00:56:51.029
I work with rats.

00:56:51.030 --> 00:56:55.209
As soon as I said the word rats,
their attention skyrocketed.

00:56:55.210 --> 00:56:57.629
And I began to tell them
about the experiments:

00:56:57.630 --> 00:57:00.999
rats in a box, rats pressing
the levers, why were they there,

00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:03.659
and what did it mean.

00:57:03.660 --> 00:57:07.949
I was teaching concepts that I
had learned in graduate school.

00:57:07.950 --> 00:57:10.699
And they were getting it.

00:57:10.700 --> 00:57:15.009
I so much underestimated
their curiosity.

00:57:15.010 --> 00:57:17.299
- Today a federal
appeals court ruled

00:57:17.300 --> 00:57:20.199
there are too many
variations in state laws

00:57:20.200 --> 00:57:23.279
to go forward with such
a massive single suit.

00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:24.419
- That\'s fine with us.

00:57:24.420 --> 00:57:26.759
We\'ve been prepared for
this for some weeks,

00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:28.609
so we\'re ready to
go to the states.

00:57:28.610 --> 00:57:29.939
We\'re starting tomorrow.

00:57:29.940 --> 00:57:30.440
Oh, yeah.

00:57:30.441 --> 00:57:32.149
It was no big deal
that we lost that.

00:57:32.150 --> 00:57:34.099
It\'s even better that
we\'re going to state

00:57:34.100 --> 00:57:36.779
by state, which was a lot of BS.

00:57:36.780 --> 00:57:38.820
We had our ass handed to us.

00:57:45.020 --> 00:57:47.569
- The decertification
changed everything.

00:57:47.570 --> 00:57:50.979
The Castano Group would now be
filing lawsuits in every state.

00:57:50.980 --> 00:57:53.969
I would have to become a
full-time expert witness.

00:57:53.970 --> 00:57:55.509
I would have to
spend most of my life

00:57:55.510 --> 00:57:58.889
traveling and talking to jurors.

00:57:58.890 --> 00:58:01.069
I wanted to start
talking to somebody else.

00:58:01.070 --> 00:58:03.349
The best thing is
knowledge, information;

00:58:03.350 --> 00:58:04.829
what you guys have learned.

00:58:04.830 --> 00:58:06.509
Nicotine is a...?

00:58:06.510 --> 00:58:07.210
- Drug.

00:58:07.211 --> 00:58:08.869
Yeah, and it changes...?

00:58:08.870 --> 00:58:09.870
- Your brain.

00:58:15.490 --> 00:58:19.069
- So I stopped
working with Wendell.

00:58:19.070 --> 00:58:22.199
- We went from one
state to five states

00:58:22.200 --> 00:58:26.369
to 20 states to 40 states.

00:58:26.370 --> 00:58:29.199
- I was at a long-range
planning meeting of our board

00:58:29.200 --> 00:58:30.080
of directors.

00:58:30.081 --> 00:58:33.129
And our longest serving
director, John Reed,

00:58:33.130 --> 00:58:36.609
said, \"We are about
to lose permission

00:58:36.610 --> 00:58:38.609
from society to exist.

00:58:38.610 --> 00:58:41.069
We\'re about to lose our
license to operate.\"

00:58:41.070 --> 00:58:42.959
And he turned to
me and he said, \"I

00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:45.419
want you to figure out a plan.

00:58:45.420 --> 00:58:47.959
And I don\'t want you to
have any lawyers in the room

00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:50.899
when you do it.\"

00:58:50.900 --> 00:58:52.699
- All of a sudden
the tobacco industry

00:58:52.700 --> 00:58:55.369
was becoming radioactive.

00:58:55.370 --> 00:58:57.579
It\'s not desirable to
be a politician who

00:58:57.580 --> 00:58:59.079
is supported by them.

00:58:59.080 --> 00:59:02.359
You have some explaining to do
if you take money from them.

00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:04.799
You have explaining to do
if you stand up for them.

00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:06.309
- Everybody was yelling at them.

00:59:06.310 --> 00:59:09.119
They even told me later that
when they went to their country

00:59:09.120 --> 00:59:12.379
clubs, people were rude to them
because they work for tobacco.

00:59:12.380 --> 00:59:16.289
- There was a firestorm of
anger and resentment directed

00:59:16.290 --> 00:59:17.359
at the industry.

00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:19.119
And we were totally in denial.

00:59:19.120 --> 00:59:22.539
- Viewers of television,
readers of newspapers...

00:59:22.540 --> 00:59:27.659
They are one giant potential
national jury pool.

00:59:27.660 --> 00:59:29.869
From their ranks are going
to come the people who

00:59:29.870 --> 00:59:33.749
are going to sit on the juries
and hear these lawsuits filed

00:59:33.750 --> 00:59:35.609
by state attorneys general.

00:59:35.610 --> 00:59:38.139
Lawsuits filed on
behalf of them,

00:59:38.140 --> 00:59:42.429
to recover money for them, spent
by them to treat sick smokers.

00:59:42.430 --> 00:59:46.969
This did not look like a real
good setting for the tobacco

00:59:46.970 --> 00:59:47.470
companies.

00:59:47.471 --> 00:59:51.089
And I think it led them to
begin to think seriously

00:59:51.090 --> 00:59:54.739
about trying to resolve
this through settlements.

00:59:54.740 --> 00:59:58.549
- The magnitude of the damages
being sought in these state

00:59:58.550 --> 01:00:03.279
cases was so big that if
we had lost one of these

01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:07.369
and the jury had awarded
billions of dollars against us,

01:00:07.370 --> 01:00:08.879
we would have been bankrupt.

01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:12.769
We couldn\'t have posted a
bond to prevent the other side

01:00:12.770 --> 01:00:14.549
from foreclosing on our assets.

01:00:14.550 --> 01:00:16.119
We would have been bankrupt.

01:00:16.120 --> 01:00:18.039
- This was an industry
that had never settled.

01:00:18.040 --> 01:00:19.959
Not only had they never
settled, they\'d never

01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:21.269
even talked about settlement.

01:00:21.270 --> 01:00:29.270
At this point, they... found
\"religion\", quote, unquote.

01:00:29.370 --> 01:00:30.589
Found religion.

01:00:30.590 --> 01:00:35.279
- I came back to the board with
a proposed new approach that

01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:41.099
involved us being very open
about the real problems

01:00:41.100 --> 01:00:45.149
with our product, and
with us becoming advocates

01:00:45.150 --> 01:00:47.429
for solutions to those problems.

01:00:47.430 --> 01:00:50.929
- We\'re headed to the
negotiating table right now.

01:00:50.930 --> 01:00:53.979
- The tobacco
companies felt that it

01:00:53.980 --> 01:00:57.729
was their one opportunity to
wrap all the litigation up

01:00:57.730 --> 01:01:02.059
in one ball of wax and become
insulated from further suits.

01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:05.260
[CHATTER]

01:01:14.050 --> 01:01:16.189
- We announced a
settlement on June 20.

01:01:16.190 --> 01:01:17.020
It\'s all done.

01:01:17.021 --> 01:01:18.399
Biggest press
conference probably

01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:20.639
they ever had in Washington, DC.

01:01:20.640 --> 01:01:23.389
We are here today
to announce what

01:01:23.390 --> 01:01:27.129
we think is the most
historic public health

01:01:27.130 --> 01:01:30.279
achievement in history.

01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:32.469
- In the settlement,
there were provisions

01:01:32.470 --> 01:01:35.439
that involved activities
by the federal government,

01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:39.029
including limited FDA authority
over the tobacco companies.

01:01:39.030 --> 01:01:44.779
So the deal couldn\'t be final
without Congress ratifying it.

01:01:44.780 --> 01:01:46.399
- Mr. Biden.

01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:48.149
Mrs. Boxer.

01:01:48.150 --> 01:01:50.069
Mr. Brownback.

01:01:50.070 --> 01:01:53.379
- And we fell a
couple votes short.

01:01:53.380 --> 01:01:56.889
- I guess it was six months
later a master settlement

01:01:56.890 --> 01:02:00.299
was done, almost
along the same lines.

01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:05.829
The only difference was
the loss of a billion...

01:02:05.830 --> 01:02:07.379
$100 billion.

01:02:07.380 --> 01:02:08.000
$100 billion?

01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:08.740
Yeah.

01:02:08.741 --> 01:02:09.780
$100 billion.

01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:20.349
- I\'ve been giving testimony
in litigation cases since \'96.

01:02:20.350 --> 01:02:23.499
The defense attorneys would say
I was making up all this stuff

01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:27.759
about causing cancer
and being addictive.

01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:29.859
After 2000 when
they admitted it,

01:02:29.860 --> 01:02:32.429
now the defense attorneys
say, \'Well, he\'s

01:02:32.430 --> 01:02:34.649
making up the stuff
about us denying it.

01:02:34.650 --> 01:02:37.469
We knew it all along
and everybody knows it.\"

01:02:37.470 --> 01:02:39.489
And so that\'s now
the new defense,

01:02:39.490 --> 01:02:42.549
is \"How could anybody
possibly believe

01:02:42.550 --> 01:02:45.069
that it didn\'t cause cancer
and wasn\'t addictive?\"

01:02:45.070 --> 01:02:47.449
- The tobacco companies
started losing lawsuits

01:02:47.450 --> 01:02:49.879
for the first time in 40 years.

01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:51.459
They started losing
one after another,

01:02:51.460 --> 01:02:54.199
and now their batting average is
only about 50-50 or something.

01:02:54.200 --> 01:02:56.199
You\'re talking about
billions of dollars.

01:02:56.200 --> 01:02:59.389
Complete change.

01:02:59.390 --> 01:03:04.099
- The United States alleges
that for the past 45 years,

01:03:04.100 --> 01:03:07.619
the companies that
manufacture and sell tobacco

01:03:07.620 --> 01:03:12.639
have waged an intentional,
coordinated campaign of fraud

01:03:12.640 --> 01:03:13.819
and deceit.

01:03:13.820 --> 01:03:17.909
- The federal RICO lawsuit
was the largest lawsuit

01:03:17.910 --> 01:03:20.119
in the history of the
Department of Justice.

01:03:20.120 --> 01:03:22.759
- The RICO stands for
Racketeer Influenced

01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:24.629
and Corrupt Organizations Act.

01:03:24.630 --> 01:03:28.059
It was a statute that was
passed, I think it was in 1971.

01:03:28.060 --> 01:03:29.659
And at the time
that it was enacted,

01:03:29.660 --> 01:03:33.149
it was to deal with
organized crime.

01:03:33.150 --> 01:03:38.379
- Judge Kessler issued a
withering encyclopedic ruling

01:03:38.380 --> 01:03:40.849
finding the tobacco
companies guilty

01:03:40.850 --> 01:03:43.169
of all manner of
lies and evasions

01:03:43.170 --> 01:03:45.739
and fraud against the
public, in such areas

01:03:45.740 --> 01:03:48.369
as lying about the health
consequences of smoking

01:03:48.370 --> 01:03:50.969
over a period of decades,
lying about the addictiveness

01:03:50.970 --> 01:03:54.579
of smoking,
manipulating cigarettes

01:03:54.580 --> 01:03:56.799
so that they would
be more addictive,

01:03:56.800 --> 01:03:59.919
marketing cigarettes
to underage youth,

01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:02.959
misusing the legal system
through the strategies

01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:04.329
of their lawyers.

01:04:04.330 --> 01:04:07.729
- They ended up being
adjudicated as racketeers.

01:04:07.730 --> 01:04:09.179
It\'s not exactly
the kind of thing

01:04:09.180 --> 01:04:10.999
you want to put on your sign.

01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:13.619
- Now that the Supreme Court
has upheld Judge Kessler\'s

01:04:13.620 --> 01:04:16.139
decision, you can
say with finality

01:04:16.140 --> 01:04:19.159
that the tobacco
industry has joined

01:04:19.160 --> 01:04:20.539
the ranks of organized crime.

01:04:20.540 --> 01:04:23.739
And it\'s a lot closer to
the Gambinos than it is

01:04:23.740 --> 01:04:26.329
to Kellogg\'s.

01:04:26.330 --> 01:04:28.769
- If our shareholders
are rewarded

01:04:28.770 --> 01:04:32.779
because we do things to
make sure fewer people die

01:04:32.780 --> 01:04:35.119
from smoking,
that\'s a good thing.

01:04:35.120 --> 01:04:39.079
Legislation is moving rapidly
right now through Congress

01:04:39.080 --> 01:04:41.649
and we are basically
at war, as a company,

01:04:41.650 --> 01:04:43.179
with the rest of
the industry to try

01:04:43.180 --> 01:04:44.740
to get that legislation passed.

01:04:47.260 --> 01:04:50.989
- When the Family Smoking
Prevention and Tobacco Control

01:04:50.990 --> 01:04:54.689
Act passes Congress... and
once the president signs it...

01:04:54.690 --> 01:04:59.299
It will put in place the FDA
program that Henry Waxman,

01:04:59.300 --> 01:05:01.909
David Kessler, and many others
begin working on in the mid

01:05:01.910 --> 01:05:03.759
1990s.

01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:06.349
- Ladies and gentlemen, the
President and Vice President

01:05:06.350 --> 01:05:07.510
of the United States.

01:05:12.380 --> 01:05:14.089
- The legislation that
I am signing today

01:05:14.090 --> 01:05:18.539
represents change that\'s
been decades in the making.

01:05:18.540 --> 01:05:21.559
Since at least the middle
of the last century...

01:05:21.560 --> 01:05:23.889
- The standard it
sets is, the FDA

01:05:23.890 --> 01:05:26.969
is to take action appropriate
for the protection

01:05:26.970 --> 01:05:28.679
of public health.

01:05:28.680 --> 01:05:32.559
What that means, in the hands
of the right government,

01:05:32.560 --> 01:05:35.749
is the power to do whatever
is necessary to reduce

01:05:35.750 --> 01:05:38.499
to the maximum extent
possible the number of people

01:05:38.500 --> 01:05:40.269
who die from using tobacco.

01:05:40.270 --> 01:05:41.190
- Thank you very much.

01:05:41.191 --> 01:05:42.289
Let\'s go sign the bill.

01:05:42.290 --> 01:05:46.669
[APPLAUSE]

01:05:46.670 --> 01:05:49.089
- Imagine a world where the
only cigarettes that kids were

01:05:49.090 --> 01:05:52.489
capable of experimenting
with were non-addictive,

01:05:52.490 --> 01:05:55.749
so that experimentation wouldn\'t
lead to regular smoking,

01:05:55.750 --> 01:05:57.999
addiction, and premature death.

01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:01.969
FDA now has the tool to change
the tobacco marketplace,

01:06:01.970 --> 01:06:04.519
so that the only cigarettes
that can be there

01:06:04.520 --> 01:06:07.839
are those that can\'t create
and sustain addiction.

01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:08.810
- There you go.

01:06:08.811 --> 01:06:13.649
[APPLAUSE]

01:06:13.650 --> 01:06:17.309
- The agency and the industry
are really at a crossroads.

01:06:17.310 --> 01:06:20.099
The agency has to develop the
new rules and regulations that

01:06:20.100 --> 01:06:21.319
will govern this industry.

01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:25.899
The industry has to be
prepared to step up and comply

01:06:25.900 --> 01:06:28.599
with the letter and the
spirit of the new rules

01:06:28.600 --> 01:06:29.779
and the new regulations.

01:06:29.780 --> 01:06:34.719
If the death and the disease
caused by smoking is reduced,

01:06:34.720 --> 01:06:36.859
that\'s in everybody\'s
best interest.

01:06:36.860 --> 01:06:39.719
- They can reduce nicotine
levels to the point

01:06:39.720 --> 01:06:42.119
where cigarettes are
no longer addictive,

01:06:42.120 --> 01:06:45.929
but time will tell if they
will actually do that.

01:06:45.930 --> 01:06:47.759
- People have their vices.

01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:50.459
People want to take chances.

01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:52.789
You take chances
when you\'re young.

01:06:52.790 --> 01:06:55.029
That\'s what\'s so dangerous
about cigarettes.

01:06:55.030 --> 01:06:57.569
Because when you\'re young, hey,
you\'re going to live forever.

01:06:57.570 --> 01:06:58.330
OK, I\'ll do it.

01:06:58.331 --> 01:06:59.399
It\'s cool.

01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:01.359
And people do it.

01:07:01.360 --> 01:07:02.909
There will always be that.

01:07:02.910 --> 01:07:04.889
There will always
be the teenager

01:07:04.890 --> 01:07:07.599
in a car trying to
drive 100 miles an hour

01:07:07.600 --> 01:07:11.649
because he thinks he\'s
never going to die.

01:07:11.650 --> 01:07:14.389
And there will always be that
teenager smoking cigarettes who

01:07:14.390 --> 01:07:16.589
think, \"This is never
going to kill me.\"

01:07:16.590 --> 01:07:19.329
[CHATTER]

01:07:19.330 --> 01:07:22.689
- We assume kids know things.

01:07:22.690 --> 01:07:25.109
But they really don\'t.

01:07:25.110 --> 01:07:27.169
In order for them to
make good decisions,

01:07:27.170 --> 01:07:29.379
we have to give them
good information.

01:07:29.380 --> 01:07:30.529
My name is Victor DeNoble.

01:07:30.530 --> 01:07:31.380
I\'m a scientist.

01:07:31.381 --> 01:07:32.669
My specialty is drug addiction.

01:07:32.670 --> 01:07:34.749
But I don\'t work with
people, I work with animals.

01:07:34.750 --> 01:07:36.479
I\'m here today to
tell you a story.

01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:41.269
But the story I\'m about to
tell you begins 29 years ago.

01:07:41.270 --> 01:07:42.909
Every single one
of us in this room,

01:07:42.910 --> 01:07:46.199
we are born with an area of the
brain that recognizes drugs.

01:07:46.200 --> 01:07:48.529
Once a drug is in your
blood and my blood,

01:07:48.530 --> 01:07:50.259
our brain will slowly
begin to change.

01:07:50.260 --> 01:07:52.299
It has absolutely no choice.

01:07:52.300 --> 01:07:54.919
You will not be addicted to the
drug the first time you use it.

01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:56.189
That\'s not going to happen.

01:07:56.190 --> 01:07:57.269
It\'s a process.

01:07:57.270 --> 01:07:59.929
And I like to think of the
process as a light switch.

01:07:59.930 --> 01:08:01.799
Y\'know when I was pushing
my light switch up,

01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:03.559
it moved and it didn\'t go on.

01:08:03.560 --> 01:08:04.649
And it moved a little
more and it didn\'t go on.

01:08:04.650 --> 01:08:07.349
Then it moved a little more and
than all of a sudden, click.

01:08:07.350 --> 01:08:08.359
My lights went on.

01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:09.929
That\'s what drug addiction is.

01:08:09.930 --> 01:08:12.649
Every time we use a drug, the
light switch... our brain...

01:08:12.650 --> 01:08:14.299
Gets changed just a little bit.

01:08:14.300 --> 01:08:16.259
And we keep using it and
using it and using it.

01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:18.449
And at one point, bam.

01:08:18.450 --> 01:08:20.139
It is going to click.

01:08:20.140 --> 01:08:22.779
I give them
information which helps

01:08:22.780 --> 01:08:25.729
them defend their
decision to say \"No.

01:08:25.730 --> 01:08:27.569
I\'m not going to
change my brain.\"

01:08:27.570 --> 01:08:28.570
All the way in the back.

01:08:28.570 --> 01:08:29.370
Young lady.

01:08:29.371 --> 01:08:31.649
- Did your cigarette
ever get made?

01:08:31.650 --> 01:08:33.219
- Did our cigarette
ever get made?

01:08:33.220 --> 01:08:34.000
No.

01:08:34.001 --> 01:08:35.849
There is no safe cigarette.

01:08:35.850 --> 01:08:38.149
30 years ago I thought
we could do it.

01:08:38.150 --> 01:08:41.099
But I was young,
and I was wrong.

01:08:41.100 --> 01:08:42.249
I was wrong.

01:08:42.250 --> 01:08:44.559
Today 30 years
later, I know there

01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:46.899
is no such thing as a
safe tobacco product.

01:08:46.900 --> 01:08:50.329
It\'s not possible to be made.

01:08:50.330 --> 01:08:53.049
I never tell kids what to do.

01:08:53.050 --> 01:08:56.299
I don\'t say, \"Don\'t\"
or \"You shouldn\'t.\"

01:08:56.300 --> 01:08:57.669
I\'ve heard people
say, \"Oh, yeah.

01:08:57.670 --> 01:08:58.939
I became a drug addict.\"

01:08:58.940 --> 01:08:59.540
Why?

01:08:59.540 --> 01:09:00.330
\"Well, I\'m tall.

01:09:00.330 --> 01:09:00.830
I\'m short.

01:09:00.830 --> 01:09:01.400
I\'m black.

01:09:01.400 --> 01:09:01.900
I\'m white.

01:09:01.900 --> 01:09:02.400
I\'m male.

01:09:02.400 --> 01:09:03.180
I\'m female.

01:09:03.180 --> 01:09:03.830
I\'m rich.

01:09:03.830 --> 01:09:04.600
I\'m poor.

01:09:04.600 --> 01:09:05.600
I had too many parents.

01:09:05.601 --> 01:09:06.879
I had no parents.\"

01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:09.969
Those are all the explanations
of why people take and use

01:09:09.970 --> 01:09:12.549
a drug, but you know what
the real decision is?

01:09:12.550 --> 01:09:13.130
Your choice.

01:09:13.131 --> 01:09:14.869
[CHATTER]

01:09:14.870 --> 01:09:18.919
They may only be kids,
but they are still

01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:22.039
responsible for their own lives.

01:09:22.040 --> 01:09:26.369
If you get one kid...
just one... not to smoke,

01:09:26.370 --> 01:09:29.109
you\'ve affected everybody
who\'s in that kid\'s life.

01:09:29.110 --> 01:09:31.899
You\'ve affected their
spouse and their kids

01:09:31.900 --> 01:09:34.340
and their parents and
all their friends.

01:09:36.860 --> 01:09:38.599
25 years from now
their friends aren\'t

01:09:38.600 --> 01:09:40.309
going to be sitting
in a hospital waiting

01:09:40.310 --> 01:09:41.829
for a diagnosis of cancer.

01:09:41.830 --> 01:09:44.209
They\'re not going to be sitting
in a hospital finding out

01:09:44.210 --> 01:09:47.339
that this person now has
emphysema, and can\'t breathe.

01:09:47.340 --> 01:09:48.620
So it\'s not one life.

01:09:51.510 --> 01:09:54.030
You\'ve changed dozens
and dozens of lives.

01:10:06.240 --> 01:10:08.489
That\'s what keeps me going.

01:10:08.490 --> 01:10:09.539
See you guys.

01:10:09.540 --> 01:10:12.510
[CHATTER]

01:10:35.660 --> 01:10:43.660
[MUSIC PLAYING]