WEBVTT

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[sil.]

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[non-English narration]

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[sil.]

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[non-English narration]

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Well, this uh… play boxing, this play with boxing
glove has… has made some kind of impression also

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in other countries, (inaudible)
saying that Naess,

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he has a complicated character. He
is boxing which is impossible for

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a (inaudible) they imply… they don’t
say it, which is so ridiculous

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because play and sport is different.

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And there is too much sport and
too little play I think today.

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And play is an, uh… is basic

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I think in life and more
suffering, the more playfulness,

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and the more you see all suffering,
the more you need playfulness.

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[music]

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And dignity tells a professor or
philosopher to behave as if you are stiff

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inside and outside completely.

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But when I met

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my present wife, Kit Fai, we met
together playfully as a mandarin,

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as a lecturer in Hong Kong,

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I behaved completely impossible and she liked that
and so she is now my wife, and we had (inaudible).

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[sil.]

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So, there is a lot to learn there

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after your colleges and universities have
skipped all this quasi-scientific way

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of behavior and let philosophy be something
tremendously different from science.

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Then you can and more people,

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who are acting from the deepest in
themselves and not seeing action

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and something very different
from the study of philosophy.

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[sil.]

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Well, mountains, uh… of course,

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that goes back to infancy,

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when I was able to go with my
older brothers into the mountains

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and somehow… somehow I cannot
say exactly why freedom

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was created with getting
above the tree line,

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somehow I don’t know,

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perspective and many… many things I have to do
with it, but from then… from already 10 years old,

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I had this dream of having a tiny

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cottage on this mountain and
live there most of the time.

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I didn’t know exactly

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how tremendously different
climate would be there, wind,

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especially, winds where
it’s arctic climate,

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completely arctic climate and
summer is only one month.

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[sil.]

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My mother had a cottage high in
the mountains above timberline,

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and then, far away, according to my
mind, tremendously, far away you had

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a mountain like a enormous wall, and
on the top of this enormous wall

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there within still higher
small peaks and so on.

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And that mountain Hallingskarvet,

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I saw as a living being

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which had all the qualities, I would
like to have, but I didn’t have.

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(inaudible),

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deep inside the deepest (inaudible) there
is something that is completely quite

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and that place Tvergastein
where I has then been

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the place where I belong.

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[music]

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One of the great movements or
sub-movements of today is to get people

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to identify with place and to
identify with surroundings,

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to identify with a landscape
something in ourselves are murdered

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when… when we destroy deep relation between

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ourselves and the immediate surrounding.

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[sil.]

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Tvergastein is situated 1,500
feet above the tree line

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and there is no kind of trail leading
to it and we have to carry everything

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for… this makes

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for self-reliance for… for instance,

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in winter when we had four or even five

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containers of water which
we have got from the lake,

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then every time I would pass
those four or five containers,

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I would say (inaudible).

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[sil.]

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Well, its age(ph) of 14, 15, 16,

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uh… I call the people almost

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interested in real… real problems,

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life problems and what you mean
by heading a life, this is just

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to get an education and uh… family,
and then, be a grandfather.

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So a lawyer,

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I met in… in the mountains (inaudible),
he said what suits you would be Spinoza,

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and I looked into Spinoza
and found it, and then,

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a Spinoza is just a wall
somebody with a total view.

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It’s… it’s everything… it’s connected

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and uh… there is something and
that’s a kind of creative force

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in humans, in everything,
which you call God.

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We had this expression God or nature,

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connecting two words for the same.

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[sil.]

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And then, he had something marvelous
about you cannot beat the…

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you can’t avoid being
glad and seeing the world

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as something to be glad
about, you cannot avoid that,

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if you are completely active
from your own nature.

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[sil.]

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[music]

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[sil.]

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What makes me feel

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quite serious meaning in life… in
my life is the ecological crisis

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because the… I can add to
my feeling for nature.

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I can add a sense of being

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useful socially and
politically by coining(ph)

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the term deep ecology and
this has to do with relating

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deepest feelings and attitudes relating

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that to practice your own practice in life.

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[non-English narration]

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And uh… And of course, I had a kind
of practical philosophy, therefore,

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when I was suddenly made a
Phil.(ph) professor in 1939,

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27 years old,

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I said that, of course, people,
who are specialized in philosophy

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that could not be coursed to
be seen at the campus at all,

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except that certain examinations.

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So also I… I myself would
say I be here on the…

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on the campus Tuesday from 6 o’clock
and until Wednesday 3 o’clock,

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and nothing else

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because as a philosopher, how could one
live on the campus. I mean either up

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in the mountains or some kind
of conflict areas or something.

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[sil.]

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And at that time just
possible to go through

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this kind of uh… conception

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of being a philosopher, being a philosopher
different from being a professor of philosophy.

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[sil.]

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I was close to the (inaudible) empiricist
in 1934 or 1935 before I was professor,

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and uh… I was very close

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to the American pragmatism in opposition
to Bertrand Russell, for instance,

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who was more intellectual, I was
more influenced by zoology,

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botany, geology and natural uh… nature,

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but then, uh… I asked myself more

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closely whether I could support
empiricism as a total system,

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and umm… that was impossible I found out,

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so I went into a kind of skepticism.

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This uh… believing in possibility
to have any kind of systems

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and this leads me then to

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the philosophy of diversity of lifestyles and
diversity of real conceptions and opposition

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to what I believe in that there should

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or could be a scientific worldview.

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There will be no definite
worldview in the future, I hope.

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[sil.]

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Philosophy, I think uh…

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today would be concealed

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as philosophy of life first
all, and that’s easy to say

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that what’s driving you, what’s your
aims, basically what’s hunting you

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and what are you hunting.
So what we need is,

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of course, academic philosophers,
but we need much more

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philosophers in the sense of old fashioned

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kind of maximum perspective,

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deepness of perspective and
broadness of perspective

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and who act from this
perspective wholeness(ph),

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so we have… you need people who are living

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according to their philosophy in the sense that their
philosophy is relevant to what they decide every day.

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[sil.]

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So I think today, we
must change universities

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and colleges in the direction of cultural,

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make it more easy for
people, who have a broad

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and deep perspective to retain that
through college and university

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and to retain the stress
on practice that’s to say,

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how you live, how you
influence politicians,

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local or other, how… how
you influence people

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and with a tremendous formal
education that’s you have in west.

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You should be able to
articulate your views and

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therefore, standup against technocracy

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and standup against the… and
thinking kind of policies

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we have in the west at the moment.

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[music]

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Where it’s clear that I have been
very (inaudible), very deeply

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concerned about problems
that Gandhi was taking up.

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His aim was to free India,

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which he meant to free the Indians,
and he said that political freedom

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is a good instrument for
arriving a freedom,

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but don’t mix those two things together to…

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to fight for freedom and to
fight for freedom from England,

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but this…

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that we are… we have the
bosses, who are English

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that is… is not good for a self respect

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and that’s with a bad self
respect you… you don’t get free,

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get to be a free person.

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[sil.]

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It was known for insisting of
getting all the facts on the table,

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and it’s time to agree
about the facts, and then,

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proceed what can be done
to resolve the conflict.

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Get into the… get into the
center of the conflict,

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don’t say outside whatever happens don’t
say outside, get into the center.

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[sil.]

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When he went to England and they said
no… no, you cannot go in this area

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or industry because they hate Indian policy
of starting and making their own clothes.

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So he went there and his
appearance he has then language

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or behavior that immediately
cools down people,

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and the workers said okay,

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of course… of course you missed(ph),
do what your wish in India,

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but the British government has
to do something to help us

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because we get unemployed. So it’s our…
it’s our problem not your problem.

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Whatever the result of the mission

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that brought me to London, I
know that I shall carry with me

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the pleasantest memory
of my stay in the mix

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of the poor people of East London.

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So I think that Gandhi showed

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that we can always meet an
opponent whatever his view,

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religious or other, he can always
meet in a way that calm down

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passions and made communication possible.

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[music]

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According to Luther, there are
bad people and good people,

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and… humans are somehow

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above nature (inaudible).

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In… in Gandhian thinking, you can’t distinguish
this way that there are bad and good people,

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but you have good or bad actions,

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and how can we reduce the
power of… of bad actions.

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How can we, maybe change
people to some extent?

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Gandhi would say that we have to go

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to use \"satyagraha\",
nonviolence resistance,

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which is an active militant
resistance where you don’t mind blood

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on your side, but you
mind blood on other side.

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So you see Gandhianism is very
different from passivism.

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[non-English narration]

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[sil.]

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We were occupied five years by the Nazis

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and you may ask by the way
Norway should have reacted

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by nonviolence against the occupation,

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so the first question, I would say,
sure we could have stopped Hitler

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without any kind of

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military means but then

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we had to stop… we had… had it
to stop in 1918, 1919, 1920,

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who have helped Germany

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to get back into normalcy…
normality economically.

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[sil.]

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And many people in 1919, 1920, 1921,

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thought about things like Gandhi did.

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If they had… had more power,

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he could easily been stopped.

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But, as I say we had to go far back,
we can talk about training of people

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or what’s the outlook… what’s the… how
much do the military self-defense

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do for developing in nonviolent attitude.

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The military establishment could do both.

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And in Norway, military establishment

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didn’t do anything to make us able to
do nonviolence during the occupation,

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but if we had… had some education

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and had complete nonviolence
resistant to the occupation forces,

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it would have a tremendous influence
internationally, I think.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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[music]

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One of the things

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which is a characteristic
of mountains is greatness,

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because the mountains hallingskarvet
is a great, and if we interpret

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that in a little wrong way, we talk
about the bigness of mountains.

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[music]

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So Himalaya being biggest in the world,

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we have to go to the Himalaya,

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but I resisted that
temptation until 1949 or 1948

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because I knew that it means organization,

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administration, and coming together
talking about inessentials,

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but nevertheless, I went then
twice… three times and (inaudible).

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[music]

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And the greatest moment for me was
I remember when in North Pakistan,

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just a tremendous mountain
that (inaudible),

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I was climbing with my friends, impressive.

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We made first (inaudible) at that time

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must be the highest that had
been climbing (inaudible),

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and that of course, made… made me more

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notorious and made impact
in newspapers and so,

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but you doesn’t mean much from a
philosophical point of view, not at all.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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Unfortunately, people in poor the countries

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when seeing all these tourists,
we seem to have, to…

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to completely free,

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no work, no nothing,
they just stroll around,

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and we must get hold all
the things they have

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and there… the main… one main goal of a

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next century is, of course,

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to that we go down and materials

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(inaudible) and so the world
would see a development

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of the poor countries.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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So richness and luxury, if it has
at all philosophical meaning,

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.999
must be related to what you feel

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.999
and what you have compared to certain
other people, what they have irrelevant,

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
completely irrelevant,
especially, if you live

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
in which the industrial society.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
How did it (inaudible)?

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.999
This is so little. You really need compared

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.999
to what you think you need.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.999
So I got the slogan which is so
important in deep ecology movement

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.999
that rich life simple means,

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.999
not simple life. I… I had a
more complex life I ever had.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
I have had more than 10 years, I have
been in Tvergastein because of wife,

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
child and everything you
needed including a couple

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
of thousand volumes of literature

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
because I… my two volume
philosopher… history of philosophy

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
made me carry more than 200
pounds of books complete works,

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
or can’t complete (inaudible) and so on.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
And to stay there, I got free from most conventions
how a history of philosophy should be.

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:28.000
[sil.]

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.999
So what we should do, also
students of philosophy,

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.999
is to find meaning, find where they stand,

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
where their innermost being,
where like what… what direction

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
I really feel live alone.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
Then interpret the philosopher

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.999
according to what they feel and
that’s what they do Spinoza.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
Whereas people think (inaudible) he… he
is saying that Spinoza is a philosophy

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
we should use in ecological crisis. No… no,
I… I never make any propaganda for Spinoza,

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
but I am seeing things

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
in the way that are suggested by Spinoza

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.999
according to my interpretation.
You should know what you feel for

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.999
and you know what… what
you are to some extent.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
You automatically get inventive
and creative, automatically.

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:53.000
[sil.]

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
And so in ecological crisis, for instance,
you had to go and to be activist.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
You have a religion or
you have philosophy and

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
you have a conception
of yourself and you act

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
from all that, and Gandhian
resistance, peace process(ph)

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
that you try and try and
try within the law,

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
and after having done that

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
not seeing any kind of
opportunity to reach the goal,

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
you break laws, but the breaking of law

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
is not directly succeed in
the… in the aim you’re goal,

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
but it is to simply awake people

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
that you’re willing to go
to prison because of this,

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
even with that police or
angry mob hitting you.

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
You just behave completely relaxed

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
that’s why I to some
extent, I like the thought

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
of little training in boxing because
after being hit 10 or 15 times

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
you get… get to be completely
calm about it… completely calm.

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:33.000
[non-English narration]

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:23.000
[sil.]

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
[non-English narration]

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
[sil.]

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
What was true at the time of
Gandhi is true today also

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
that umm… the civil disobedience in arctic
Norway during winter was much more successful

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
than during summer because more than 1,000

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
people were in the winter time doing
demonstration and they sent up 600 police,

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
and then… then, the population saw

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
this on television or in the newspapers

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
and they saw that it was cold… very cold, and
so you see, it’s communication basically

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
the civil disobedience not direct to…

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
to say something directly
by means of breaking laws.

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:33.000
[music]

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
So, we have

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
sinned against nature, we have
sinned against god’s creation

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
and we must live very much different,
what god has created directly,

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
has valve in itself completely independent

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
or any kind of usefulness for man.

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:08.000
[sil.]

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
[sil.]

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
We waste fantastic, a lot of energy

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
so we need a lot of progress

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
and that’s what we have to
understand by… by the term growth.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
And Gro Harlem Brundtland,

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
herself would be under pressure to say
that, oh, of course, I do not mean

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
the growth as they have
headed before, I mean

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
our growth according to
our ecological criteria

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
that no… nobody has defined
in that way, but it shows

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
that under pressure was that I would like

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
to mean by growth enrich
nation is ecologically

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
sustainable progress in the… each nations.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
We are overloading the planet’s ability

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
to observe the effects of human
activities in ways never before

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
experienced in human history.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
While are we still have time to make
necessary changes, sustainable development

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
is a participatory process
on which we all should deal.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
Sustainable development
according to one interpretation

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
of the Brundtland report

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
is that any kind of
development today implies

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
ecologically sustainable development. You
have to have abundance of life around you

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
and diversity,

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
this is ecological sustainability.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:23.000
[sil.]

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
You have to choose an interpretation

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
which is (inaudible) supported because 22
politicians of the high level have said yes,

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
and then you have to
interpret report in order

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
to get an interpretation where they
really said something important

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
and very good ecologically. Therefore, which is
politically important to say to politicians,

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
you have said so and so, so how is
your policy consistent with you,

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
what you have said in
the Brundtland report,

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
and then, I cannot say, oh, but you
have interpreted so and so, no… no.

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
They would feel that pressure in direction

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:15.000
of real responsibility ecologically.
Tactical, we have to be tactical also.

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:33.000
[music]

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:43.000
[non-English narration]

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
In 1972, every big newspaper
and every people in power

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
were poor joining in EEC,

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
but the grassroots, we are not… they said,

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
in… in the Norway they said
(inaudible) bad enough,

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
we don’t want any new center even begin.
And today, we are fighting against

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
what some of us… fighting against joining
EEC, and this is interesting to see

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
that it’s seems that there is
some kind of deep distress

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
in bigger center like this
and a (inaudible) states.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
Which(ph) then they say but
what about if you only

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
I stand in Norway alone, suffering alone

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
where all this… all joining
Sweden and all other joining EEC,

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
how can you stand alone… alone like that,

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
and for me it’s so ridiculous
because its only good for Europe

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
to have a couple of rich
states outside EEC to show

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
that we can ecologically,
for instance, do much…

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
much which I can’t do in EEC,
and philosophically I think it

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
is a cooperation internationally

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
and that means a cooperation in second world or third
world and trying to save little of the fourth…

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
fourth world that’s what
we… we are needed for.

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
[sil.]

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
And we in Norway could do a lot to… to
manifest that we go down to a policy

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
and lifestyle that is universalizable,

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
and we could do that with a tremendous
nice nature, plus export of oil,

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
we don’t have to serve the
oil but we can export.

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
So we are really and are
in very good position

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
to in some ways realize uh…
ecologically responsible policy.

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
[sil.]

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
If we stay outside, we will
go down maybe a little

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
in material standard of living, but that way we are
having to do anyhow (inaudible), we had to go down.

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:18.000
[sil.]

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
And sustainability that means in a long
run you can keep on with the policies

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
without hurting the richness and
diversity of life on earth,

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
that’s sustainability,
philosophically I think.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:43.000
[music]

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
[sil.]

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
So rich life simple means, not simple life,

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
whereas at a moment the half the…

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.999
the 500 millions or 800
millions of people living

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
in so called abundance, then cannot hope

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
that the rest of mankind would
reach anything like that level

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
of just nonsense which you
call standard of living…

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
standard of living out life quality in…

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
life quality how do you feel, how do
you really feel that’s the important,

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
and Tvergastein has to
do with that and I hope

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
that others will find other ways
of reaching the same conclusions.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
When the frontier is long… there
is one of my favorite slogans,

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
frontier is very long, you have certain
weaknesses, you have certain strengths,

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:25.000
come on, do things,
everybody, this is how it is.