00:00:00.998 --> 00:00:05.489
[FROG CROAKING]

00:00:23.453 --> 00:00:27.944
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:01:00.390 --> 00:01:01.865
Everything here is necessary.

00:01:09.109 --> 00:01:09.900
There is no excess.

00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:18.000
Burnished by the sun,
dried by the wind,

00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.690
seldom touched by the
rain, this is a place where

00:01:21.690 --> 00:01:23.440
life has been stripped bare.

00:01:26.580 --> 00:01:30.550
Everything here has
its place-- the hawk

00:01:30.550 --> 00:01:36.820
quartering the canyon floor,
the warm rocks, the rattlesnake

00:01:36.820 --> 00:01:43.910
and the coyote, the spirits of
the Earth, and at its center,

00:01:43.910 --> 00:01:46.070
human beings.

00:01:46.070 --> 00:01:48.620
Pueblo Bonito, the
beautiful village,

00:01:48.620 --> 00:01:52.750
in Chaco Canyon, New
Mexico, once the home

00:01:52.750 --> 00:01:59.030
of the ancient ones, those
the Navajo call the "Anasazi."

00:01:59.030 --> 00:02:02.560
They built here, 1,000 years
ago in this unforgiving place,

00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:03.970
a ceremonial center.

00:02:06.990 --> 00:02:10.350
They left 300 years later.

00:02:10.350 --> 00:02:13.557
No one knows why.

00:02:13.557 --> 00:02:15.140
They gave their
dwellings to the wind.

00:02:21.730 --> 00:02:26.050
They built exquisitely-- in
Pueblo Bonito alone, 800 rooms

00:02:26.050 --> 00:02:30.620
and 36 round kivas
for their worship.

00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:34.360
The Anasazi lived in harmony
with their surroundings.

00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:40.600
They were religious, artistic,
industrious, and they thrived.

00:02:40.600 --> 00:02:46.800
They have left behind
them silence and a wonder.

00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:54.480
The clue is here atop this
480-foot butte, Fajada Butte.

00:03:00.580 --> 00:03:04.220
It was a holy place
for the Anasazi,

00:03:04.220 --> 00:03:07.015
where they practiced a
most sophisticated science,

00:03:07.015 --> 00:03:09.904
the precise marking of
the sun and the moon.

00:03:19.260 --> 00:03:21.760
These three stone
slabs weighing two tons

00:03:21.760 --> 00:03:27.320
apiece are their
observatory, 1,000 years old,

00:03:27.320 --> 00:03:28.180
but still exact.

00:03:31.230 --> 00:03:34.040
Behind the slabs is a
spiral carved into the rock.

00:03:37.730 --> 00:03:41.340
Yearly on the 21st of
June, the longest day,

00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:43.110
an opening between
two of the slabs

00:03:43.110 --> 00:03:45.030
directs the sunlight
onto the spiral.

00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:50.740
This time-lapse film
shows what happens

00:03:50.740 --> 00:03:52.150
over a period of 18 minutes.

00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:23.470
This is dagger the sun
drew for the Anasazi

00:04:23.470 --> 00:04:26.180
every year at the
summer solstice.

00:04:26.180 --> 00:04:28.735
An by its life, the ancient
ones measured their year

00:04:28.735 --> 00:04:29.850
and timed their ceremony.

00:04:38.390 --> 00:04:41.340
Channeling the sun's light
so that the dagger bisects

00:04:41.340 --> 00:04:43.760
the spiral only at
the summer solstice

00:04:43.760 --> 00:04:48.410
required a complex coordination
of geometric factors.

00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:50.120
Such knowledge is
far beyond what

00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.260
scientists believed possible
for these early people.

00:04:54.260 --> 00:04:58.780
Therefore, the discovery of
this sun calendar in 1977

00:04:58.780 --> 00:05:00.573
provoked a controversy
among scientists.

00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.740
If it could be proven that these
early American Indians created

00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:09.800
the calendar, it would
give us new insights

00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:14.140
into their vision of life,
their unique integration

00:05:14.140 --> 00:05:18.470
of art, science, and religion.

00:05:18.470 --> 00:05:20.130
They actually have
a visual calendar

00:05:20.130 --> 00:05:21.790
of what the sun is doing.

00:05:21.790 --> 00:05:24.120
Because it's not just a marker.

00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:27.970
It's actually light
playing into the field

00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:31.650
of that serpentine spiral.

00:05:31.650 --> 00:05:34.690
I would call it
a center of time.

00:05:34.690 --> 00:05:36.790
Because there is so home
much going on there,

00:05:36.790 --> 00:05:39.140
it seems, just from
present evidence.

00:05:39.140 --> 00:05:41.570
There's not only concern
with the solstices

00:05:41.570 --> 00:05:45.030
but with larger units of
time, not only linear time,

00:05:45.030 --> 00:05:48.480
historical time, time in
terms of repeatable cycles,

00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:49.906
but cosmic time.

00:05:49.906 --> 00:05:53.660
I have a feeling that in
situations of that kind, also

00:05:53.660 --> 00:05:59.251
at Stonehenge, where people
have a structure on Earth that

00:05:59.251 --> 00:06:02.960
exactly reflects the
cosmological movements, that

00:06:02.960 --> 00:06:05.850
becomes a sacred site.

00:06:05.850 --> 00:06:07.640
The first Americans
to live in this place

00:06:07.640 --> 00:06:10.620
were in tune with
time and the elements.

00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:14.580
They knew themselves to be
a part of a complex entity.

00:06:14.580 --> 00:06:16.180
They had the courage
to look outward,

00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:18.470
beyond the boundaries
of Earth, to seek

00:06:18.470 --> 00:06:21.140
the secrets of the
sun and the moon,

00:06:21.140 --> 00:06:24.970
while we, their
successors, look inward.

00:06:24.970 --> 00:06:27.315
This land contains our
richest concentration

00:06:27.315 --> 00:06:31.510
of coal and uranium,
already being mined.

00:06:31.510 --> 00:06:33.280
We have a hard choice.

00:06:33.280 --> 00:06:36.530
We want energy, and
we yearn for harmony.

00:06:36.530 --> 00:06:38.320
We do not know if
we can have both.

00:06:54.500 --> 00:06:56.690
The sun calendar has
been quietly marking

00:06:56.690 --> 00:06:59.100
the seasons for centuries.

00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:00.900
But it has only
recently been known

00:07:00.900 --> 00:07:02.066
to the scientific community.

00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:05.990
The sun dagger
was not discovered

00:07:05.990 --> 00:07:11.160
by geologists, anthropologists,
or archaeologists.

00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:14.300
It was discovered by
an artist, Anna Sofaer,

00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:16.530
in the summer of 1977.

00:07:16.530 --> 00:07:20.290
She's made the trip into Chaco
Canyon 19 times since then.

00:07:20.290 --> 00:07:21.980
Each time she and
her researchers

00:07:21.980 --> 00:07:24.010
have made the climb
up Fajada Butte,

00:07:24.010 --> 00:07:25.770
they have made new discoveries.

00:07:25.770 --> 00:07:28.220
On this expedition
in May of 1981,

00:07:28.220 --> 00:07:30.650
they will test their
hypothesis that the Anasazi

00:07:30.650 --> 00:07:34.660
knew and marked the 19-year
cycle of the moon at the site.

00:07:34.660 --> 00:07:37.700
This lunar thing
is, in a sense, more

00:07:37.700 --> 00:07:39.390
significant than
the solar marking,

00:07:39.390 --> 00:07:41.260
certainly as
significant, by the fact

00:07:41.260 --> 00:07:45.500
that it's a 19-year marking
and that it's so unique.

00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:49.600
But there will be
people who just

00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:51.690
will find it very
difficult to accept

00:07:51.690 --> 00:07:54.000
that the Indians
of Chaco Canyon had

00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.524
that knowledge and
the skill to mark it.

00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:03.990
Accompanying Anna on this trip
is one of her original research

00:08:03.990 --> 00:08:07.400
partners, physicist from the
National Science Foundation

00:08:07.400 --> 00:08:08.754
Rolf Sinclair.

00:08:08.754 --> 00:08:10.670
My training has been in
the physical sciences,

00:08:10.670 --> 00:08:14.155
in physics principally, more
recently administration.

00:08:14.155 --> 00:08:15.780
Everybody has sort
of a second science.

00:08:15.780 --> 00:08:18.790
It's usually astronomy
or archaeology.

00:08:18.790 --> 00:08:20.830
I was interested in both.

00:08:20.830 --> 00:08:22.470
I'd never been in
this country before.

00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:23.269
I'd flown over it.

00:08:23.269 --> 00:08:25.435
I'd been here to visit the
laboratories, Los Alamos.

00:08:25.435 --> 00:08:27.550
I'd been to meetings
in Albuquerque.

00:08:27.550 --> 00:08:29.200
I had never been in the country.

00:08:29.200 --> 00:08:30.950
I never walked across it.

00:08:30.950 --> 00:08:32.000
It was unbelievable.

00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:33.291
I still have no gotten over it.

00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:38.740
To assist in carrying
the research equipment,

00:08:38.740 --> 00:08:40.240
they've hired a
professional climber

00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.179
from Santa Fe, who
will be seeing the sun

00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:45.482
calendar for the first
time, Jane McGrath.

00:08:45.482 --> 00:08:48.010
Worked for an organization
called Outward Bound,

00:08:48.010 --> 00:08:51.460
which is an outdoor program,
for a number of years,

00:08:51.460 --> 00:08:56.460
taking kids, adults out
backpacking, rafting, rock

00:08:56.460 --> 00:09:00.870
climbing, mountaineering in
the Southwest and Mexico.

00:09:00.870 --> 00:09:02.645
I really like the canyon.

00:09:02.645 --> 00:09:05.610
I think the thing I like most
about is that it's beautiful,

00:09:05.610 --> 00:09:07.810
and it's such an
impractical location

00:09:07.810 --> 00:09:10.870
for such a huge civilization
and so many people.

00:09:10.870 --> 00:09:12.940
And it makes you wonder
what sort of people

00:09:12.940 --> 00:09:15.450
they were that they would choose
this barren, desolate place

00:09:15.450 --> 00:09:15.950
to live.

00:09:19.970 --> 00:09:22.520
Anna worked as a painter and
sculptor in New York City

00:09:22.520 --> 00:09:25.390
before she turned
to photography.

00:09:25.390 --> 00:09:28.800
And the photography broke
open a whole new area for me

00:09:28.800 --> 00:09:32.200
and allowed me to work with
the play of light and shadow,

00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:35.270
to express these ideas
of the connection of man

00:09:35.270 --> 00:09:36.950
with nature and space.

00:09:36.950 --> 00:09:39.250
And I was lucky in
having a chance to take

00:09:39.250 --> 00:09:41.552
a seminar with the head of
the archeoastronomy center

00:09:41.552 --> 00:09:42.135
in Washington.

00:09:49.920 --> 00:09:54.070
Archeoastronomy is a new
branch of science combining

00:09:54.070 --> 00:09:58.290
archaeology with astronomy to
study how ancient people used

00:09:58.290 --> 00:10:02.100
such sites as Stonehenge to
relate to the sun, the moon,

00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:04.490
and the stars.

00:10:04.490 --> 00:10:07.510
5,000-year-old Stonehenge is
aligned to the summer solstice

00:10:07.510 --> 00:10:08.010
sunrise.

00:10:10.540 --> 00:10:13.290
Some astronomers make
the controversial claim

00:10:13.290 --> 00:10:17.890
that it is also aligned to the
19-year year cycle of the moon.

00:10:17.890 --> 00:10:21.190
And in that little seminar,
I learned about rock art

00:10:21.190 --> 00:10:23.466
in the Southwest, which
I hadn't known about.

00:10:31.300 --> 00:10:34.770
I just was absolutely
fascinated.

00:10:34.770 --> 00:10:37.800
It was as though I had broken
out of the walls of my studio

00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:39.770
and I was joining the
ancient people who

00:10:39.770 --> 00:10:42.220
were so deeply involved
with those cycles

00:10:42.220 --> 00:10:44.830
that they lived them
in their architecture,

00:10:44.830 --> 00:10:47.535
and their art was
part of nature.

00:10:47.535 --> 00:10:50.600
And when I came
into Chaco, it was

00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.010
as though another
release of energy

00:10:53.010 --> 00:10:55.170
happened for me,
that I could feel

00:10:55.170 --> 00:10:57.610
so at home here and so alert.

00:10:57.610 --> 00:11:00.170
Lot of people say
that about Chaco, too.

00:11:00.170 --> 00:11:02.270
There's something in the
way the light here works

00:11:02.270 --> 00:11:03.020
and the landscape.

00:11:03.020 --> 00:11:04.600
It doesn't dominate you.

00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.270
It opens you to the sky
and to the relationship

00:11:07.270 --> 00:11:08.734
with the sky and the land.

00:11:08.734 --> 00:11:11.204
Here is a spiral [INAUDIBLE].

00:11:11.204 --> 00:11:13.180
Isn't that good?

00:11:13.180 --> 00:11:15.950
Spirals are the most common
design in rock art in Chaco.

00:11:15.950 --> 00:11:19.070
And to find a site of
rock art even today

00:11:19.070 --> 00:11:21.640
gives me that feeling
of joining in a way,

00:11:21.640 --> 00:11:26.540
joining the ancient people who
were joining the earth and sky.

00:11:26.540 --> 00:11:29.110
In the last 10 or 12
years, that became

00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:31.850
combined with an interest
in prehistoric culture

00:11:31.850 --> 00:11:34.884
and things like the
stone circles of Britain.

00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.420
Anna visited
Newgrange in Ireland,

00:11:46.420 --> 00:11:49.475
one of the oldest known
solstice-marking sites,

00:11:49.475 --> 00:11:53.270
a 6,000-year-old tomb
known as a passage grave.

00:11:56.350 --> 00:11:59.405
That triple spiral that's
carved on the walls

00:11:59.405 --> 00:12:03.270
of the inner chamber of the
tomb is lit by light just

00:12:03.270 --> 00:12:05.650
at winter solstice dawn
in a kind of symbol

00:12:05.650 --> 00:12:07.850
of rebirth in the tomb.

00:12:07.850 --> 00:12:10.810
And that image was
very strong for me.

00:12:10.810 --> 00:12:16.460
And I photographed the spiral
designs on the rocks there.

00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:19.550
I would take several
photos and then

00:12:19.550 --> 00:12:22.990
select from them just a few
negatives of one object,

00:12:22.990 --> 00:12:27.550
of a very interesting
piece of rock or just a log

00:12:27.550 --> 00:12:28.680
or a piece of earth.

00:12:28.680 --> 00:12:32.730
But I would enlarge photos in
every conceivable variation

00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:35.610
on that, in light and
contrast and scale.

00:12:35.610 --> 00:12:38.020
And then I would put all
of those on the floor,

00:12:38.020 --> 00:12:40.960
and I would begin to cut
them up and reassemble them

00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:42.390
in constructs.

00:12:42.390 --> 00:12:45.860
And some of them were very large
and some were three-dimensional

00:12:45.860 --> 00:12:47.340
like the tower.

00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:49.665
These interests is
photography, rock art,

00:12:49.665 --> 00:12:52.950
and archeoastronomy led
Anna to join an expedition

00:12:52.950 --> 00:12:57.730
recording rock art in
Chaco Canyon in 1977.

00:12:57.730 --> 00:12:59.650
She was assigned
Fajada Butte, which

00:12:59.650 --> 00:13:01.820
stands at the southern
entrance to Chaco Canyon.

00:13:12.790 --> 00:13:14.960
When you come to sheer
face of the cliff,

00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:17.515
the only way up is
through a narrow chimney

00:13:17.515 --> 00:13:20.760
of rock known to be
inhabited by rattlesnakes.

00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:23.110
Looks like a prairie rattler.

00:13:23.110 --> 00:13:25.900
We'll be all right if we
just stick to the cliff.

00:13:25.900 --> 00:13:29.030
The Pueblo Indians believe that
the rattlesnake is a protector

00:13:29.030 --> 00:13:31.076
and guardian of sacred sites.

00:13:31.076 --> 00:13:32.504
Pretty [INAUDIBLE] here.

00:13:32.504 --> 00:13:35.080
Yeah, it looks like a
very, very subtle path up.

00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:38.760
It's not at all like those big,
broad roads that [INAUDIBLE].

00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:40.473
There's a long stretch
right in there.

00:13:44.420 --> 00:13:45.170
OK, up you go.

00:13:45.170 --> 00:13:45.670
Terrific.

00:13:45.670 --> 00:13:47.050
Thanks.

00:13:47.050 --> 00:13:49.060
Because of the
stakes and the danger

00:13:49.060 --> 00:13:52.360
of climbing on these
fragile sandstone cliffs,

00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.230
the National Park Service
placed the climbing of Fajada

00:13:55.230 --> 00:13:57.420
off limits.

00:13:57.420 --> 00:14:00.040
A permit may be granted only
under special circumstance.

00:14:00.040 --> 00:14:02.004
There they are.

00:14:02.004 --> 00:14:03.970
It depends on the temperature.

00:14:03.970 --> 00:14:06.570
OK, Rolf, if you can bring it
in a little closer to the wall

00:14:06.570 --> 00:14:07.070
there.

00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:08.054
OK.

00:14:08.054 --> 00:14:09.038
That's fine.

00:14:09.038 --> 00:14:10.514
Whatcha got in here, lead?

00:14:10.514 --> 00:14:13.466
Lead, books, camera, equipment.

00:14:13.466 --> 00:14:15.930
Rope!

00:14:15.930 --> 00:14:18.460
In her study of
archeoastronomy, Anna

00:14:18.460 --> 00:14:20.860
learned how the Indians
set both their planting

00:14:20.860 --> 00:14:23.350
and ceremonial calendar
by observing the sun.

00:14:23.350 --> 00:14:26.714
Marvelous horizon to
watch from way up here.

00:14:26.714 --> 00:14:28.130
It would be a great
place for them

00:14:28.130 --> 00:14:30.350
to have set the calendar
by watching the changing

00:14:30.350 --> 00:14:33.170
positions of the sun as it set.

00:14:33.170 --> 00:14:37.160
The winter solstice sun
sets farthest to the south,

00:14:37.160 --> 00:14:40.620
the summer solstice sun
the farthest to the north,

00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:43.770
and the equinox sun right
between those points,

00:14:43.770 --> 00:14:46.600
directly west.

00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.200
Not only do the horizon
positions of the rising

00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.470
and setting sun shift
from winter to summer,

00:14:52.470 --> 00:14:55.070
but the height of the
sun's daily passage

00:14:55.070 --> 00:14:58.790
shifts from lowest in
winter to highest in summer.

00:14:58.790 --> 00:15:02.416
The equinox is halfway
between the two.

00:15:02.416 --> 00:15:05.370
This butte sort of sitting
alone in the valley

00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:08.300
here is almost like
a big sun dial.

00:15:08.300 --> 00:15:10.340
As the sun crosses
over every day,

00:15:10.340 --> 00:15:15.190
it casts a shadow around itself,
just like a stick in the sand.

00:15:15.190 --> 00:15:18.330
And the butte's shadow shifting
through the seasons from summer

00:15:18.330 --> 00:15:20.535
to winter would tell
time to the Indians.

00:15:29.210 --> 00:15:31.720
In my enthusiasm
for rock art, I went

00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:36.390
to a conference of the American
Rock Art Research Association.

00:15:36.390 --> 00:15:39.600
And there I saw in a
slide that somebody

00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.920
had taken in Baja, California,
this pictograph of a shaman

00:15:43.920 --> 00:15:49.720
figure with horns in a cave and
how at winter solstice sunrise,

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.290
a dart of light passes
through this eyes.

00:15:52.290 --> 00:15:54.900
It told me that light
on a piece of rock art

00:15:54.900 --> 00:15:57.860
could tell a time of the
year among the Indians.

00:15:57.860 --> 00:15:58.860
There are the slabs.

00:15:58.860 --> 00:15:59.526
They're visible.

00:16:15.790 --> 00:16:18.492
There's that spiral in
shadow now, just the way

00:16:18.492 --> 00:16:22.765
it was when I saw it the first
time I came in June of '77.

00:16:22.765 --> 00:16:26.597
About Solstice time I came up
here, and it was in shadow.

00:16:26.597 --> 00:16:29.180
And I thought, well, that's just
another spiral, another piece

00:16:29.180 --> 00:16:32.045
of rock art that we would come
back and record the next day.

00:16:32.045 --> 00:16:35.360
The amazing thing was that
when I came the next day,

00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.150
it had a dagger of light
right through the center

00:16:38.150 --> 00:16:39.970
of the spiral.

00:16:39.970 --> 00:16:41.530
And it was so vivid.

00:16:41.530 --> 00:16:43.940
And it was just a
week from solstice

00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:45.670
and very close to noon.

00:16:45.670 --> 00:16:48.350
So I figured it
had to be marking

00:16:48.350 --> 00:16:51.880
the highest point of the sun
both in the year and the day.

00:16:51.880 --> 00:16:53.840
Because the symbol was
so strong of the dagger

00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:55.131
going right through the center.

00:16:55.131 --> 00:16:56.850
It's incredible luck
that you would have

00:16:56.850 --> 00:16:58.830
come upon it at that point.

00:16:58.830 --> 00:17:00.990
And that you would have
made the connection.

00:17:00.990 --> 00:17:02.010
And photographed it.

00:17:02.010 --> 00:17:04.329
I mean, the light is only
there for like 18 minutes

00:17:04.329 --> 00:17:05.680
or something at noon.

00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.180
If I had come three
minutes later,

00:17:08.180 --> 00:17:11.170
it wouldn't have had
that strength of image.

00:17:11.170 --> 00:17:12.109
Somehow it's moved me.

00:17:12.109 --> 00:17:13.310
It changed my whole life.

00:17:13.310 --> 00:17:17.240
So I spent nearly full
time on it for four years

00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:18.400
to understand the site.

00:17:22.030 --> 00:17:24.669
When Anna first told
people what she had found,

00:17:24.669 --> 00:17:27.099
she was greeted with skepticism.

00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:29.840
Nothing like this had ever
been discovered before.

00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:32.830
Almost all the known solstice
marking sites in the world

00:17:32.830 --> 00:17:36.590
used the position of the rising
or setting sun on the horizon.

00:17:36.590 --> 00:17:39.520
The sun calendar on
Fajada uses the height

00:17:39.520 --> 00:17:42.550
of the sun at midday.

00:17:42.550 --> 00:17:46.120
I was very afraid when I first
realized what I had found.

00:17:46.120 --> 00:17:48.880
Because I wasn't ready to
take on the responsibility.

00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.800
So I put the photographs
aside for several months.

00:17:51.800 --> 00:17:54.350
But when I went in the darkroom
and developed these photos

00:17:54.350 --> 00:17:56.940
and saw again the
dagger of light

00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:58.520
through the center
of that spiral,

00:17:58.520 --> 00:18:02.620
I felt convinced that it really
was that solstice marking.

00:18:02.620 --> 00:18:04.810
And I took those photos
to my former teacher

00:18:04.810 --> 00:18:06.020
in archeoastronomy.

00:18:06.020 --> 00:18:08.616
I showed him this photo,
the dagger of light

00:18:08.616 --> 00:18:10.240
right through the
center of the spiral,

00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:13.050
just as we had seen it
when I first came here

00:18:13.050 --> 00:18:15.150
at summer solstice '77.

00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:18.580
And he said that the
vertical form of light coming

00:18:18.580 --> 00:18:21.050
through the center
like that at about noon

00:18:21.050 --> 00:18:24.960
had to be formed by vertical
opening to the south sky

00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.640
and that that opening would
therefore allow sun in

00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.870
no matter how high or low
it was through the seasons.

00:18:31.870 --> 00:18:35.150
And it wouldn't come any
differently on the spiral.

00:18:35.150 --> 00:18:37.180
It would always be in
the center of the spiral.

00:18:37.180 --> 00:18:40.590
He said it wasn't solsticial,
at best a noon marking.

00:18:40.590 --> 00:18:43.490
Did that make you question
your basic assumptions?

00:18:43.490 --> 00:18:46.790
It made me realize that I
couldn't simply present this

00:18:46.790 --> 00:18:49.370
as an artist saying what
a strong visual image

00:18:49.370 --> 00:18:52.620
of a solar marking,
that I had to really

00:18:52.620 --> 00:18:55.270
apply an analytic
approach to, for instance,

00:18:55.270 --> 00:18:58.470
understand why that
vertical form of light

00:18:58.470 --> 00:19:01.090
descends in that direction
while the sun is actually

00:19:01.090 --> 00:19:03.360
moving horizontally at midday.

00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:05.705
When the sun moves through
the highest part of its arc

00:19:05.705 --> 00:19:08.670
at midday, it moves
across the sky primarily

00:19:08.670 --> 00:19:11.611
in a horizontal course.

00:19:11.611 --> 00:19:13.580
I thought that if
I could understand

00:19:13.580 --> 00:19:17.960
how this calendar works-- this
opening here to the south sky

00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.910
gives you that vertical
line of light right

00:19:20.910 --> 00:19:23.430
through the spiral while
the sun is actually

00:19:23.430 --> 00:19:27.290
moving horizontally-- that then
I'd understand how it could

00:19:27.290 --> 00:19:29.989
really be just at solstice
that the light went

00:19:29.989 --> 00:19:30.780
through the center.

00:19:30.780 --> 00:19:33.740
I guess you'd think that if the
sun was moving horizontally,

00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:38.426
then the dagger should also move
horizontally off the spiral.

00:19:38.426 --> 00:19:40.050
We thought if we
figured that out, we'd

00:19:40.050 --> 00:19:44.050
understand whether it was
solsticial and not just a noon

00:19:44.050 --> 00:19:45.100
marking.

00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:46.340
Will not go downwards.

00:19:46.340 --> 00:19:47.202
Yeah.

00:19:47.202 --> 00:19:50.690
And now I'm doing just
with the midday sun.

00:19:50.690 --> 00:19:52.480
Anna and Rolf decided
that they needed

00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.265
to make a model of the slabs
in order to understand fully

00:19:55.265 --> 00:19:57.223
what caused the dagger
to go through the center

00:19:57.223 --> 00:20:00.790
of the spiral only at
the summer solstice.

00:20:00.790 --> 00:20:03.640
After several
unsuccessful experiments,

00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:05.460
Ann met an architect
whose studies

00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:09.020
had included shadow and light
formations, Volker Zinzer.

00:20:09.020 --> 00:20:10.805
And I studied
architecture in Germany

00:20:10.805 --> 00:20:15.170
as I completed something that's
similar as a Master's degree

00:20:15.170 --> 00:20:19.110
here at the Technical
University in Berlin.

00:20:19.110 --> 00:20:24.710
I think I'll need to create
some slabs similar to the ones

00:20:24.710 --> 00:20:26.710
that you tried to make
with the cardboard.

00:20:26.710 --> 00:20:27.990
Right, but with the curves.

00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:30.930
But with some kind
of a curvature in it.

00:20:30.930 --> 00:20:35.650
Question from Anna
to me, saying, well,

00:20:35.650 --> 00:20:36.870
how is it possible?

00:20:36.870 --> 00:20:41.040
And I said, well, you need some
kind of curved surfaces, which

00:20:41.040 --> 00:20:44.640
goes back to my
studies in architecture

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.670
but specifically in some
light and shadow formations

00:20:48.670 --> 00:20:51.410
that I always was
interested in and that we

00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:54.980
had various kinds of
exercises at the time when

00:20:54.980 --> 00:20:56.480
I studied architecture.

00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.730
When I gave her the answer
to what she was asking for,

00:20:59.730 --> 00:21:01.720
she literally almost
jumped to the ceiling.

00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:04.270
She said, well, you've got to
work with me on this question.

00:21:04.270 --> 00:21:08.304
I've got to find out
what can be done.

00:21:08.304 --> 00:21:11.470
OK, and if you take
now the flashlight,

00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:13.970
now you can see the pattern of
light on there, you can see--

00:21:13.970 --> 00:21:15.240
There it's really
going down that time.

00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:16.680
--on what would be the spiral.

00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:18.570
If I start over here,
I can see it open up.

00:21:18.570 --> 00:21:19.940
Now you see how it goes down?

00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:20.440
Yeah.

00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:21.023
There it goes.

00:21:21.023 --> 00:21:22.056
It goes way down.

00:21:22.056 --> 00:21:22.555
Right.

00:21:22.555 --> 00:21:23.200
Right, you see?

00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.110
You see how it opens
up going downward now?

00:21:25.110 --> 00:21:27.700
Going back to the only
five or six photos

00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:30.140
that we had to find
out where were those

00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:33.620
and what was the angle of
the sun, and sure enough,

00:21:33.620 --> 00:21:38.580
we had very soon lined up 100
questions that resulted then

00:21:38.580 --> 00:21:41.820
in the fact of preparing a
little expedition going out

00:21:41.820 --> 00:21:44.540
there about three months later.

00:21:44.540 --> 00:21:48.460
When Volker and I returned
to test our hypothesis,

00:21:48.460 --> 00:21:50.250
we came up here
in the afternoon,

00:21:50.250 --> 00:21:52.260
very excited to see
what was happening.

00:21:52.260 --> 00:21:54.280
The whole formation,
the whole slab formation

00:21:54.280 --> 00:21:56.520
was already in the shadow.

00:21:56.520 --> 00:21:59.380
And quite frankly, it
was very disappointing,

00:21:59.380 --> 00:22:04.490
because we couldn't make out
the anticipated curved surfaces.

00:22:04.490 --> 00:22:07.260
Our whole theory seemed to
be shot right then and there.

00:22:07.260 --> 00:22:10.720
I thought, had we imagined
this entire theory?

00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.890
Until the next morning
when we came back

00:22:12.890 --> 00:22:16.940
to see as the light went
down through the spirals,

00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.590
you finally could see the edges
that were forming the light

00:22:19.590 --> 00:22:21.370
and that indeed
they were curved.

00:22:21.370 --> 00:22:23.790
It curves here on
the right-hand slab

00:22:23.790 --> 00:22:26.570
right there and on the
left-hand slab there.

00:22:26.570 --> 00:22:30.220
Work together with two curved
surfaces on the inner edges.

00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:33.820
Picked a time, which was a
month before summer solstice

00:22:33.820 --> 00:22:37.790
in order to see what
were the differences.

00:22:37.790 --> 00:22:40.840
If all our theories were
right, then obviously

00:22:40.840 --> 00:22:43.820
it would have to be
off a month before.

00:22:43.820 --> 00:22:47.310
When Volker and I came here,
we saw that the dagger of light

00:22:47.310 --> 00:22:49.790
was an inch and a quarter
to the right of center

00:22:49.790 --> 00:22:54.150
and that the edges that form
the vertical form of the line

00:22:54.150 --> 00:22:58.340
were curved edges of the slabs.

00:22:58.340 --> 00:23:00.740
The arc of the sun during
the second week in May

00:23:00.740 --> 00:23:03.120
is only five degrees
lower than the arc

00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:05.640
at the summer solstice in June.

00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:08.920
And this small change in
altitude is shown on the spiral

00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:12.110
by the dagger being an inch
and a quarter off center.

00:23:12.110 --> 00:23:15.660
So the researchers had evidence
that the site marks the summer

00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:16.563
solstice precisely.

00:23:20.370 --> 00:23:21.780
Next, they studied
whether or not

00:23:21.780 --> 00:23:24.210
the slabs had been moved
into their present positions.

00:23:26.710 --> 00:23:28.210
Well, it looks like
this slab, Anna,

00:23:28.210 --> 00:23:31.000
could have fallen from that
big crack down in there.

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.460
I mean, this one is sort
of right underneath it.

00:23:33.460 --> 00:23:36.420
Well, that was thought to
be one of the possibilities.

00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:39.170
We figured we wouldn't
know whether they

00:23:39.170 --> 00:23:42.480
had been moved or fallen until
we knew exactly where they

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.810
had come from.

00:23:43.810 --> 00:23:46.350
But the precision of the
light form that we were seeing

00:23:46.350 --> 00:23:49.280
made us think pretty strongly
that they had been moved.

00:23:49.280 --> 00:23:52.110
And we wrote that in a paper
that we prepared and gave

00:23:52.110 --> 00:23:53.380
at a conference.

00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:56.320
And of course, then we really
entered the scientific struggle

00:23:56.320 --> 00:23:57.050
at that point.

00:23:57.050 --> 00:23:59.310
How was that for you
not being a scientist?

00:23:59.310 --> 00:24:02.120
In a way, it was the
beginning of some controversy.

00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:04.190
For instance, one
of the scientists

00:24:04.190 --> 00:24:06.210
wrote us after we
gave that paper

00:24:06.210 --> 00:24:10.420
and said that it was enough
to say that the Indians knew

00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:12.740
the solstices and
had marked them here,

00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:15.580
but to say that they moved
these slabs was to say

00:24:15.580 --> 00:24:16.805
they were Chacoan Einsteins.

00:24:25.430 --> 00:24:28.790
Chacoan Einstein--
were the Anasazi

00:24:28.790 --> 00:24:32.240
capable of creating
the sun calendar?

00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.300
Anna set out to study
the culture that

00:24:34.300 --> 00:24:36.850
produced the archaeological
wonders we see today

00:24:36.850 --> 00:24:37.830
in the Pueblo ruins.

00:24:44.450 --> 00:24:46.700
She learned that although
there was a great precision

00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:48.720
and planning in their
building, scholars

00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.685
tell us that the Anasazi did
not have writing or math.

00:24:56.660 --> 00:25:01.260
This wall was originally
four stories tall.

00:25:01.260 --> 00:25:03.400
The pueblos were
constructed with thousands

00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:05.660
of finely cut and
layered rock, which

00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:08.350
they quarried and transported
from the mesas above.

00:25:13.950 --> 00:25:16.830
Floor beams of Ponderosa
pine were often

00:25:16.830 --> 00:25:19.424
50 to 70 feet in length.

00:25:19.424 --> 00:25:21.340
They were brought into
the canyon from forests

00:25:21.340 --> 00:25:24.080
over 50 miles away.

00:25:24.080 --> 00:25:26.900
In order to support themselves
in this arid desert,

00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:31.220
the Anasazi had to import
by foot lumber, ceramics,

00:25:31.220 --> 00:25:35.260
and most of their food over
an extensive network of roads.

00:25:35.260 --> 00:25:37.850
They chiseled staircases
out of the canyon walls

00:25:37.850 --> 00:25:41.260
to connect the road system with
the Pueblos of Chaco Canyon.

00:25:41.260 --> 00:25:45.530
They're really very well formed
and quite wide, almost as wide

00:25:45.530 --> 00:25:48.390
as the road.

00:25:48.390 --> 00:25:50.513
So, we should be able
to see Pueblo Alto.

00:26:01.830 --> 00:26:04.540
Pueblo Alto, the highest
of the canyon pueblos

00:26:04.540 --> 00:26:07.450
was the meeting point
for many of the roads.

00:26:07.450 --> 00:26:10.890
From Chaco Canyon, the roads
extended more than 100 miles

00:26:10.890 --> 00:26:14.500
in remarkably straight lines
across the San Juan Basin.

00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:16.750
The Anasazi culture was
spread over a region

00:26:16.750 --> 00:26:22.350
of 26,000 square miles,
the size of Ireland.

00:26:22.350 --> 00:26:25.170
Dr. Alfonso Ortiz of
the San Juan Pueblo,

00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:28.140
professor of Anthropology at
the University of New Mexico--

00:26:31.252 --> 00:26:32.960
The people at Choco
Canyon were obviously

00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:34.090
multidimensional people.

00:26:37.649 --> 00:26:38.940
Their architecture was complex.

00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:40.070
Their art was complex.

00:26:40.070 --> 00:26:44.417
[TRIBAL SINGING AND CHANTING]

00:27:08.190 --> 00:27:10.930
The Anasazi's trade routes
reached as far south

00:27:10.930 --> 00:27:13.480
as Mexico and west
to the Pacific coast,

00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:17.580
where they obtained shell
for their necklaces.

00:27:17.580 --> 00:27:21.160
From turquoise mines over
100 miles to the southwest,

00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:23.381
they obtained raw stones
for their jewelry and ritual

00:27:23.381 --> 00:27:23.880
objects.

00:27:32.905 --> 00:27:35.040
The circular
structure predominant

00:27:35.040 --> 00:27:38.960
in Chacoan architecture is
the kiva, a ceremonial chamber

00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:40.540
built into the ground.

00:27:40.540 --> 00:27:43.400
It represents the place
of the Pueblos' emergence

00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:45.280
into this world.

00:27:45.280 --> 00:27:47.750
The kiva is and has
always been, so far as we

00:27:47.750 --> 00:27:52.240
know, the place where the living
communicate with the dead.

00:27:58.470 --> 00:28:00.240
And Pueblo peoples
have always been

00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:04.745
known to have very complex
ceremonial cycles, dances,

00:28:04.745 --> 00:28:08.290
and other ritual observances
and schedules which

00:28:08.290 --> 00:28:10.960
are based upon very
accurate observations

00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:12.950
of the sun and the moon.

00:28:12.950 --> 00:28:15.580
They were preoccupied
with a lot of things

00:28:15.580 --> 00:28:17.690
other than just getting
food in their stomachs

00:28:17.690 --> 00:28:19.590
and trading with
their neighbors.

00:28:19.590 --> 00:28:22.480
They were preoccupied with
their place in the cosmos,

00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.690
whether there was an ordered
scheme of things governing

00:28:25.690 --> 00:28:28.750
their lives and their movement
from season to season and year

00:28:28.750 --> 00:28:29.790
to year.

00:28:29.790 --> 00:28:31.870
And they wondered,
among many other things,

00:28:31.870 --> 00:28:35.220
about whether there were orderly
progressions of the planets,

00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:36.730
the sun, and the moon.

00:28:36.730 --> 00:28:39.490
The sun plays an
absolutely crucial role.

00:28:39.490 --> 00:28:43.150
One astronomer has said that he
thinks those corner windows are

00:28:43.150 --> 00:28:46.200
aligned to the winter
solstice sunrise, which

00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.780
is theory and much debate.

00:28:47.780 --> 00:28:51.350
But it is true in Pueblo
history that light shining

00:28:51.350 --> 00:28:55.560
through windows is framed on to
the opposite wall in changing

00:28:55.560 --> 00:28:59.610
positions, and that's
a way to tell time.

00:28:59.610 --> 00:29:02.410
Shadows are cast in
the back walls of rooms

00:29:02.410 --> 00:29:05.010
from which observations are
made through, say, portholes,

00:29:05.010 --> 00:29:07.530
peepholes.

00:29:07.530 --> 00:29:11.160
That might be marked for
the solstices and equinoxes.

00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.330
They did build places
such as shrines or towers

00:29:14.330 --> 00:29:16.330
and the high places
themselves from which they

00:29:16.330 --> 00:29:18.140
could make the
observations they needed

00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:19.760
to schedule their ceremonies.

00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:22.010
It's so wonderfully
Pueblo in that

00:29:22.010 --> 00:29:26.230
you do have this center
of time on a high butte.

00:29:29.800 --> 00:29:31.680
After Anna's first
paper was published,

00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.340
the experts in
the field accepted

00:29:33.340 --> 00:29:35.880
that the site marks
the summer solstice

00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:38.610
but said the slabs were
a natural formation

00:29:38.610 --> 00:29:41.700
and it was too elaborate for
North American Indians to have

00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:45.920
moved large slabs of stone.

00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:47.820
An archaeologist on
this trip told me

00:29:47.820 --> 00:29:50.640
that he thought he
saw, on these top edges

00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:54.520
here, signs of pecking and
grinding, that is, working.

00:29:54.520 --> 00:29:56.110
And these are two
of the edges that

00:29:56.110 --> 00:29:59.190
are critical in casting the
vertical forms of light.

00:29:59.190 --> 00:30:01.980
So it might be they
worked those edges

00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:05.320
to get the patterns of
light that they wanted.

00:30:05.320 --> 00:30:07.920
One of our greatest difficulties
in determining whether or not

00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.490
those slabs were moved
was the subtle appearance

00:30:11.490 --> 00:30:14.100
of them resting here
on this cliff face.

00:30:14.100 --> 00:30:16.080
In fact, archaeologists,
geologists

00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:19.220
have come up this trail right
by the slabs and the spiral

00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:21.850
and wouldn't necessarily
look in and see the spiral

00:30:21.850 --> 00:30:25.230
or notice the slabs to be
anything but more rock.

00:30:25.230 --> 00:30:27.260
That's very Indian somehow.

00:30:27.260 --> 00:30:30.150
They don't make a
conspicuous machine.

00:30:30.150 --> 00:30:34.300
It all melts right into the
world of natural environment.

00:30:34.300 --> 00:30:36.980
Joseph Campbell, a
noted author and scholar

00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:40.030
of myths and symbols, has been
interested in the American

00:30:40.030 --> 00:30:41.870
Indians since his youth.

00:30:41.870 --> 00:30:45.430
To me, the miracle is that
something that looks quite as

00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:48.600
casual as those
placements of those slabs

00:30:48.600 --> 00:30:53.354
should deal with such a precise,
exact astronomical observation

00:30:53.354 --> 00:30:55.170
possible.

00:30:55.170 --> 00:30:57.370
There's no mystery behind it.

00:30:57.370 --> 00:31:00.260
Earl Littlebird, a
poet and songwriter,

00:31:00.260 --> 00:31:02.470
was one of the first
Pueblo Indians Anna

00:31:02.470 --> 00:31:04.429
talked with about the site.

00:31:04.429 --> 00:31:05.470
It's all out in the open.

00:31:05.470 --> 00:31:08.510
It's just things that were
natural to them all the time,

00:31:08.510 --> 00:31:12.094
observing things, knowing
when wind was going to come .

00:31:12.094 --> 00:31:13.594
Or if certain insects
came out, they

00:31:13.594 --> 00:31:15.466
knew that it was going
to be bad weather.

00:31:43.370 --> 00:31:45.390
There's a mystery to
the archaeologists

00:31:45.390 --> 00:31:47.930
about why did the
people settle in Choco

00:31:47.930 --> 00:31:50.916
and build so elaborately
there in the center of what

00:31:50.916 --> 00:31:54.310
was an arid basin,
the San Juan Basin.

00:31:54.310 --> 00:31:55.530
What do you think?

00:31:55.530 --> 00:31:56.920
That's basically what it was.

00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:57.573
It was hard.

00:31:57.573 --> 00:32:01.500
It was a hard place
to do anything.

00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:02.840
There was nothing growing there.

00:32:02.840 --> 00:32:05.090
They had to go a long, long
ways for different things.

00:32:05.090 --> 00:32:06.450
It made the people strong.

00:32:06.450 --> 00:32:08.690
It made them remember
where they came from

00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:11.180
and how they observed things.

00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:13.860
That place that's
Choco, there was

00:32:13.860 --> 00:32:16.200
something that held them
there, a very special place.

00:32:20.290 --> 00:32:24.160
Think about the way they talk
about things-- earth, air,

00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:25.356
fire, and water.

00:32:25.356 --> 00:32:26.730
You look around
you, that's where

00:32:26.730 --> 00:32:28.550
all these things came from.

00:32:28.550 --> 00:32:30.560
There's little trees
that are out here now.

00:32:30.560 --> 00:32:33.260
They need a little bit
of water to get going.

00:32:33.260 --> 00:32:36.390
They have the sun and
the air, the rocks.

00:32:36.390 --> 00:32:38.930
Just all this was
carved out that way,

00:32:38.930 --> 00:32:39.940
those elements involved.

00:32:52.170 --> 00:32:55.430
The things these people
who live close to nature

00:32:55.430 --> 00:32:59.080
know that we don't,
I think that's true.

00:32:59.080 --> 00:33:02.645
At least I'm open to
feel that it is likely.

00:33:09.040 --> 00:33:11.040
Researchers set their
camera to record

00:33:11.040 --> 00:33:15.120
the movements of the sun dagger
over the months that followed.

00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:16.880
They had noticed
a smaller spiral

00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.150
to the left of the large spiral
but weren't sure of its purpose

00:33:20.150 --> 00:33:22.190
until that equinox
on September 21.

00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:33.120
The dagger formed by
the right-hand opening

00:33:33.120 --> 00:33:36.470
had moved to the right
on the large spiral.

00:33:36.470 --> 00:33:39.100
And now a dagger formed
by the left-hand opening

00:33:39.100 --> 00:33:41.168
pierces the center
of the small spiral.

00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:46.040
After the discovery of
this equinox marking,

00:33:46.040 --> 00:33:49.460
the researchers worked
on towards winter.

00:33:49.460 --> 00:33:52.290
They continued to seek advice
from experts in the field,

00:33:52.290 --> 00:33:56.350
but their response was often
more doubts and skepticism.

00:33:56.350 --> 00:33:58.450
One geologist showed
contempt for the site

00:33:58.450 --> 00:34:00.420
under investigation.

00:34:00.420 --> 00:34:02.685
After declaring that he was
sure that the slabs were

00:34:02.685 --> 00:34:05.445
a natural formation, he
climbed to the top of them

00:34:05.445 --> 00:34:07.320
with this heavy hiking boots.

00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:09.360
I just couldn't believe
that he would do that.

00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:12.760
And the people who were
with me were so insensitive

00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.500
that they were
laughing and saying,

00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:18.440
those slabs are stable, I see,
because you haven't moved them.

00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:19.280
And down he came.

00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:23.489
And I guess I left the canyon
on that trip really sunk.

00:34:23.489 --> 00:34:26.310
I was about to quit.

00:34:26.310 --> 00:34:28.790
They continued their research
through the harsh weather

00:34:28.790 --> 00:34:32.518
of late fall until December
21, the winter solstice,

00:34:32.518 --> 00:34:33.726
the shortest day of the year.

00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.120
The daggers were now furthest
right on the spirals,

00:34:47.120 --> 00:34:49.500
and they bracketed
the large spiral.

00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:52.310
At winter, the spiral
is held empty of light

00:34:52.310 --> 00:34:55.090
at the sun's lowest
position, in contrast

00:34:55.090 --> 00:34:59.230
to it being bisected by light
at the sun's highest position.

00:34:59.230 --> 00:35:01.100
And then how they
worked that thing out

00:35:01.100 --> 00:35:06.525
of the way the solstice, having
the two spears come down,

00:35:06.525 --> 00:35:10.160
the summer, the one, just the
way of capturing the light,

00:35:10.160 --> 00:35:12.850
and as you once
told me, translating

00:35:12.850 --> 00:35:16.370
a horizontal movement
into a vertical one.

00:35:16.370 --> 00:35:20.200
It's a mechanical feat,
really, that is itself

00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:22.970
worthy of great, great respect.

00:35:22.970 --> 00:35:25.970
Why would the ancient
Pueblo Indians

00:35:25.970 --> 00:35:29.330
have needed to know and mark
the seasonal passage of the sun

00:35:29.330 --> 00:35:31.650
with such accuracy?

00:35:31.650 --> 00:35:33.600
Perhaps with only a
limited growing season

00:35:33.600 --> 00:35:38.180
in the desert and corn taking
more than 100 days to mature,

00:35:38.180 --> 00:35:40.370
the Pueblos developed a
precise planning calendar

00:35:40.370 --> 00:35:43.100
by observing the sun
on the horizon and then

00:35:43.100 --> 00:35:45.420
shadow and light patterns.

00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:47.830
Equally important is the
ceremonial observance

00:35:47.830 --> 00:35:50.450
of the sun's central role
in creating all life.

00:35:53.620 --> 00:35:57.230
When I was growing up, and more
so when my father was growing

00:35:57.230 --> 00:36:00.250
up, in my grandfather's
time, it was absolutely

00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:04.800
prescribed that a man or a
boy on his way to becoming

00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:10.970
a man on first awakening should
go out, stand at the doorway

00:36:10.970 --> 00:36:14.940
or even go outside, and throw
a small pinch of white cornmeal

00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:17.820
off to the direction
of the sunrise and pray

00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:20.060
and thank the sun
father for granting him

00:36:20.060 --> 00:36:21.370
one more day of life.

00:36:21.370 --> 00:36:24.569
It's to recognize
that the sun has

00:36:24.569 --> 00:36:26.110
a great, great deal
to do with making

00:36:26.110 --> 00:36:27.450
life possible on this Earth.

00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:35.270
The idea given expression
in Pueblo origin traditions

00:36:35.270 --> 00:36:38.260
is that of emerging from a
prior world beneath this one.

00:36:38.260 --> 00:36:40.950
For a people so
intensely agrarian

00:36:40.950 --> 00:36:42.970
for so many centuries
of their existence,

00:36:42.970 --> 00:36:46.350
all life does result from
happenings within the Earth,

00:36:46.350 --> 00:36:49.650
from the union of
earth, water, and sun.

00:36:49.650 --> 00:36:54.040
So if plant life, including
their mother, corn,

00:36:54.040 --> 00:36:56.670
comes from within the
Earth, and they realize that

00:36:56.670 --> 00:36:58.490
within the larger
cycle of animal life

00:36:58.490 --> 00:37:03.060
that animals are born to parents
that feed upon the earth,

00:37:03.060 --> 00:37:06.680
and then they live their
cycle, normal cycle unless

00:37:06.680 --> 00:37:09.050
killed prematurely
in the hunt, then

00:37:09.050 --> 00:37:10.745
they return to the
earth to fertilize

00:37:10.745 --> 00:37:14.430
the earth for more life, that
they follow the cycle, too.

00:37:14.430 --> 00:37:17.030
They're not saying literally
that a group of people

00:37:17.030 --> 00:37:20.460
at some time in history actually
climbed up out of a tree

00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:21.830
and emerged onto this Earth.

00:37:21.830 --> 00:37:24.121
It's more of a metaphorical
statement, a different kind

00:37:24.121 --> 00:37:26.770
of statement, which has
a different kind of truth

00:37:26.770 --> 00:37:27.940
than historical truth.

00:37:27.940 --> 00:37:31.090
They're saying that all
life, including human life,

00:37:31.090 --> 00:37:33.520
ultimately results from
happenings within the Earth.

00:37:33.520 --> 00:37:35.850
And one of the functions
of the old mythologies,

00:37:35.850 --> 00:37:39.540
the first function, is to
open that sense of wonder

00:37:39.540 --> 00:37:44.640
so that everything is
pointing past that surface

00:37:44.640 --> 00:37:46.700
into the wonder dimension.

00:37:46.700 --> 00:37:49.520
You have a preoccupation with
understanding, with movement

00:37:49.520 --> 00:37:52.680
up, as with the
origins, origin stories.

00:37:52.680 --> 00:37:55.260
There's a preoccupation
with upward movement

00:37:55.260 --> 00:37:57.450
and then also with
light moving down.

00:37:57.450 --> 00:37:59.690
You have both demonstrably.

00:37:59.690 --> 00:38:03.330
And the one may be evocative
of the origin stories,

00:38:03.330 --> 00:38:06.660
the other a concern
with unifying the three

00:38:06.660 --> 00:38:08.660
levels of the
cosmos-- the below,

00:38:08.660 --> 00:38:12.260
the above, and the middle
realm, the Earth's surface.

00:38:12.260 --> 00:38:15.090
Sometimes I've thought of the
butte and the sun calender

00:38:15.090 --> 00:38:18.290
being on top of that butte
as, in a way, an endeavor

00:38:18.290 --> 00:38:22.960
to make the joining of the below
and the above at that site.

00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.326
Well, also the
ziggurat, the place

00:38:25.326 --> 00:38:26.700
of the union of
heaven and Earth,

00:38:26.700 --> 00:38:28.350
is at the top of the ziggurat.

00:38:28.350 --> 00:38:32.150
That's the chamber, the
marriage of the sky father

00:38:32.150 --> 00:38:33.210
and the Earth mother.

00:38:33.210 --> 00:38:35.350
Now, people trying to
interpret the ziggurat

00:38:35.350 --> 00:38:37.140
of ancient Sumer
used to say they

00:38:37.140 --> 00:38:40.040
were imitations of mountains.

00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:43.420
Perhaps for these people to see
that there was the mountain--

00:38:43.420 --> 00:38:46.995
it looks just like the
great pyramids of Mexico.

00:38:46.995 --> 00:38:49.091
And I said, well, there it is.

00:38:49.091 --> 00:38:49.590
There it is.

00:38:49.590 --> 00:38:51.410
Why make something
when there it is?

00:38:51.410 --> 00:38:51.950
Yeah.

00:38:51.950 --> 00:38:55.130
If there were Pueblo
people living there,

00:38:55.130 --> 00:38:57.520
I would predict very easily
that it would be a very, very

00:38:57.520 --> 00:38:59.330
sacred place indeed.

00:38:59.330 --> 00:39:03.000
It would be one of the central
concerns of their lives,

00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.710
and there would be people
there on a regular basis

00:39:05.710 --> 00:39:09.500
praying, meditating, leaving
offerings, making observations.

00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:14.370
But since the cosmic forms
are illustrated there

00:39:14.370 --> 00:39:17.160
and are actually
experienced there,

00:39:17.160 --> 00:39:19.167
you're having a
cosmic experience.

00:39:19.167 --> 00:39:20.250
And that becomes a shrine.

00:39:20.250 --> 00:39:23.410
That's a place where the divine
interplay of these forces

00:39:23.410 --> 00:39:24.240
shows itself.

00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:29.390
And the cool,
mechanical approach

00:39:29.390 --> 00:39:31.230
doesn't give us that experience.

00:39:31.230 --> 00:39:35.460
And in fact, we're so removed
from that kind of experience

00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:38.960
that we can hardly conceive
of people having it.

00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:42.660
People go there,
meditate, because it's

00:39:42.660 --> 00:39:46.180
a real-- it's an experience
that stays with them when

00:39:46.180 --> 00:39:47.150
they go back home.

00:39:47.150 --> 00:39:51.820
And there's places all over this
old land where people walked.

00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:54.780
There were places that
they observed shadows.

00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:58.048
They set up things like that.

00:39:58.048 --> 00:40:02.820
And when you're living with that
kind of an I-thou relationship

00:40:02.820 --> 00:40:06.970
to things, you experience
them in a new way.

00:40:06.970 --> 00:40:08.470
Just watching the
shadow of that,

00:40:08.470 --> 00:40:11.520
what we've come to call Dancing
Rock, has been fascinating.

00:40:11.520 --> 00:40:14.230
It just shifts so
dramatically through the rest

00:40:14.230 --> 00:40:17.740
of the day, both shadow
and then also the color.

00:40:17.740 --> 00:40:19.950
When you begin
spending your childhood

00:40:19.950 --> 00:40:24.470
learning to read and sit in
school for four hours, five

00:40:24.470 --> 00:40:27.660
hours a day thinking,
reading, and seeing

00:40:27.660 --> 00:40:29.330
dead wood all around
you, you're going

00:40:29.330 --> 00:40:32.650
to have a totally different
capacity for observation

00:40:32.650 --> 00:40:35.990
than that of these people who
are always immediately linked

00:40:35.990 --> 00:40:37.281
to what's going on.

00:40:37.281 --> 00:40:39.822
Those people are seeing things
that we just don't see at all.

00:40:39.822 --> 00:40:44.080
And they're seeing it
in terms of a gestalt,

00:40:44.080 --> 00:40:47.666
a whole formed system
that they get at once.

00:41:12.810 --> 00:41:15.980
To disprove that they
had fallen [INAUDIBLE],

00:41:15.980 --> 00:41:18.170
to examine the surface
right behind them.

00:41:18.170 --> 00:41:21.560
Because if a ton each of
these slabs falls down,

00:41:21.560 --> 00:41:24.280
they would have left
some form of marking.

00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:28.000
And we see no markings on the
cliff face or on the slabs.

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.880
Finally in 1979,
a geologist found

00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.910
a clue that solved
the mystery of where

00:41:32.910 --> 00:41:36.030
the slabs had come from.

00:41:36.030 --> 00:41:38.940
He found a concretion, a
deposit of certain minerals,

00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:41.140
on the inner surface of
one of the slabs that

00:41:41.140 --> 00:41:46.260
matched exactly a concretion
on the side of the cliff face.

00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:48.110
Several geologists
came to the site,

00:41:48.110 --> 00:41:51.330
and one was able to come and
spend two days here and be

00:41:51.330 --> 00:41:52.970
very thorough in his study.

00:41:52.970 --> 00:41:55.820
And he was able to tell us that
the slabs were once attached

00:41:55.820 --> 00:42:03.720
to each other as a block and
that that block was attached

00:42:03.720 --> 00:42:06.380
to the cliff face
right about here

00:42:06.380 --> 00:42:10.330
so that the top edges reached
over to that far edge there,

00:42:10.330 --> 00:42:14.880
and the right-hand side of that
block was the base of the slabs

00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.070
right here.

00:42:16.070 --> 00:42:19.810
The right-hand side of the
right slab came to about here.

00:42:19.810 --> 00:42:21.360
It detached from the cliff.

00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:23.460
It came to roughly here.

00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:25.990
And of course, it had
to then be propped up

00:42:25.990 --> 00:42:28.740
to come to its present position.

00:42:28.740 --> 00:42:31.540
This slab has got
to fall-- if it

00:42:31.540 --> 00:42:35.100
were to fall 20 centimeters
down and all the way

00:42:35.100 --> 00:42:37.710
over here, that's why we
argue it had to be moved.

00:42:37.710 --> 00:42:39.530
Because it couldn't
fall by itself

00:42:39.530 --> 00:42:43.115
that far with only 20
centimeters of vertical fall.

00:42:43.115 --> 00:42:47.580
Whether it's a foot or a mile
is irrelevant for that point.

00:42:47.580 --> 00:42:49.350
They were moved.

00:42:49.350 --> 00:42:51.510
Anna began to wonder
whether the slabs which

00:42:51.510 --> 00:42:53.630
were set to mark
the sun's movement

00:42:53.630 --> 00:42:58.070
had also been set to mark
the moon's 19-year cycle.

00:42:58.070 --> 00:43:00.490
The moon cycle is so
much more complicated

00:43:00.490 --> 00:43:03.740
than the sun's 12-month cycle
that scientists seriously

00:43:03.740 --> 00:43:06.220
doubted this possibility.

00:43:06.220 --> 00:43:08.610
But Anna and her colleagues
pursued the speculation

00:43:08.610 --> 00:43:10.460
knowing that the moon
is of equal importance

00:43:10.460 --> 00:43:12.236
with the sun to
the Pueblo people

00:43:12.236 --> 00:43:13.610
for the setting
of their planting

00:43:13.610 --> 00:43:16.490
and ceremonial calendar.

00:43:16.490 --> 00:43:18.660
They have spent the night
on the top of Fajada Butte

00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:20.950
because they know from an
astronomer at the Naval

00:43:20.950 --> 00:43:23.170
Observatory that the sun
will rise this morning

00:43:23.170 --> 00:43:25.280
at the same horizon
position as the moon

00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:27.420
and its minimum extreme.

00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:29.830
They're going to check
if the moon might

00:43:29.830 --> 00:43:34.290
make significant shadow
patterns on the spiral.

00:43:34.290 --> 00:43:36.430
If the researchers were
to check for a shadow

00:43:36.430 --> 00:43:38.850
when the moon reached
its minimum extreme,

00:43:38.850 --> 00:43:42.350
they would have
to wait 15 years.

00:43:42.350 --> 00:43:44.470
So instead, they are
using the rising sun

00:43:44.470 --> 00:43:46.790
as a substitute for the moon.

00:43:46.790 --> 00:43:47.300
It's--

00:43:47.300 --> 00:43:47.920
6:04.

00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:49.620
Yeah, that's what I have.

00:43:49.620 --> 00:43:50.380
It should be--

00:43:50.380 --> 00:43:51.029
Four minutes.

00:43:51.029 --> 00:43:51.528
Yeah.

00:43:55.690 --> 00:43:57.510
I can't see my own shadow yet.

00:43:57.510 --> 00:43:59.380
At this point, you
can see what look

00:43:59.380 --> 00:44:03.850
like rays coming out from
the sun at different angles.

00:44:03.850 --> 00:44:07.610
Those clouds are
just almost on fire.

00:44:07.610 --> 00:44:10.234
Do you think, Rolf, it's going
to go through the center?

00:44:10.234 --> 00:44:11.150
Or do you think it's--

00:44:11.150 --> 00:44:12.608
I have complete
confidence it will.

00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.840
It's a beautiful sunrise.

00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:20.235
Right now we're looking
for a shadow against there.

00:44:20.235 --> 00:44:21.625
It's not light.

00:44:21.625 --> 00:44:22.750
It's not a dagger of light.

00:44:22.750 --> 00:44:24.850
That's right.

00:44:24.850 --> 00:44:27.040
Now we've got the sun's disk up.

00:44:27.040 --> 00:44:28.264
It's still a little bit hazy.

00:44:28.264 --> 00:44:29.430
Give it just another minute.

00:44:29.430 --> 00:44:32.570
There-- there's shadows now.

00:44:32.570 --> 00:44:36.740
The sun shows exactly where
the moon's rays will fall.

00:44:36.740 --> 00:44:39.240
The rising moon at
its minimum extreme

00:44:39.240 --> 00:44:43.420
reached once every 19 years
forms a shadow which bisects

00:44:43.420 --> 00:44:45.620
the 19 turns of the spiral.

00:44:45.620 --> 00:44:48.150
The minimum and maximum
extremes of the moon

00:44:48.150 --> 00:44:50.750
are roughly equivalent to the
winter and summer solstice

00:44:50.750 --> 00:44:52.230
positions of the sun.

00:44:52.230 --> 00:44:56.036
It's incredible what they were
able to unite at this site.

00:44:56.036 --> 00:44:57.410
And the other
thing that astounds

00:44:57.410 --> 00:44:59.190
me is that the dagger
of light at summer

00:44:59.190 --> 00:45:01.510
solstice when the sun
is at the very highest

00:45:01.510 --> 00:45:05.910
goes to the center, and here,
the moon at its very lowest

00:45:05.910 --> 00:45:08.260
goes through the
center in its way.

00:45:08.260 --> 00:45:13.070
So they've brought together the
sun and the moon in one symbol.

00:45:13.070 --> 00:45:16.870
If the Anasazi had marked the
minimum extreme on the spiral,

00:45:16.870 --> 00:45:18.560
could they also
have set the slabs

00:45:18.560 --> 00:45:20.940
to mark the moon's
maximum extreme?

00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:23.220
In this experiment to
test their hypothesis,

00:45:23.220 --> 00:45:25.550
Anna and Rolf will
simulate the moon's light

00:45:25.550 --> 00:45:27.870
with a laser set
on a rod calibrated

00:45:27.870 --> 00:45:32.000
to the horizon position of the
moon at its maximum extreme.

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:34.880
Anna had been encouraged in
her search for lunar markings

00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:38.160
at the site by Dr. Ortiz.

00:45:38.160 --> 00:45:40.130
There's one thing
I felt immediately.

00:45:40.130 --> 00:45:41.900
There was not only
a preoccupation

00:45:41.900 --> 00:45:45.060
with the movements of the
light from the sun reflected,

00:45:45.060 --> 00:45:49.230
but somewhere, there had to
be a simultaneous concern also

00:45:49.230 --> 00:45:51.980
with lunar cycles,
because anything

00:45:51.980 --> 00:45:54.670
that apparently complicated,
I felt, would reflect this.

00:45:58.474 --> 00:45:59.640
It's an aluminum box of tin?

00:45:59.640 --> 00:46:00.598
It's just aluminum box.

00:46:00.598 --> 00:46:04.070
It's just a homemade laser.

00:46:04.070 --> 00:46:09.950
The sun rises from beneath a
lake from its home in the east

00:46:09.950 --> 00:46:12.255
and travels across
the sky by day.

00:46:12.255 --> 00:46:15.740
But before it does so at certain
times of year for reasons

00:46:15.740 --> 00:46:19.410
the elders know, the
sun takes its essence,

00:46:19.410 --> 00:46:21.970
meaning its face, its
mask, and sends it up

00:46:21.970 --> 00:46:26.020
into the sky in the form of the
moon to light the way of humans

00:46:26.020 --> 00:46:28.800
while the sun continues
its long underworld

00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.647
journey to reach the place of
the sunrise in the east again.

00:46:32.647 --> 00:46:34.980
I'll get out of the way so I
don't get zapped by a laser

00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:35.479
here.

00:46:35.479 --> 00:46:36.868
Just don't look into it.

00:46:36.868 --> 00:46:38.620
OK.

00:46:38.620 --> 00:46:41.500
Since the sun never moves far
enough north on the horizon

00:46:41.500 --> 00:46:44.560
to reach this position,
they've chosen a laser light

00:46:44.560 --> 00:46:47.190
to simulate the parallel
rays of moonlight.

00:46:47.190 --> 00:46:49.340
It will accurately
locate on the spiral

00:46:49.340 --> 00:46:52.175
the positions of the
extreme moon's shadow.

00:46:52.175 --> 00:46:53.550
If they were to
wait for the moon

00:46:53.550 --> 00:46:55.980
to cast its shadow at
its maximum extreme,

00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:59.280
they would have to
wait another six years.

00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:02.700
The moon dies in front of
you and comes to life again.

00:47:02.700 --> 00:47:05.810
And the moon is always
dying and resurrecting.

00:47:05.810 --> 00:47:08.900
All of the great deities, in
the eastern Mediterranean,

00:47:08.900 --> 00:47:11.620
for instance, who are dying and
resurrecting, including Jesus,

00:47:11.620 --> 00:47:15.280
are associated with
the lunar cycle.

00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.590
And in contrast
to that, you have

00:47:17.590 --> 00:47:19.300
the sun, which does not die.

00:47:19.300 --> 00:47:21.130
When the sun goes
down, that means

00:47:21.130 --> 00:47:22.440
you're not where the light is.

00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:23.700
But the sun is still alive.

00:47:23.700 --> 00:47:25.850
But the moon gets dark.

00:47:25.850 --> 00:47:28.530
And so these
represent two aspects

00:47:28.530 --> 00:47:32.000
of what might be called
eternal life-- eternal life

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:36.490
unchanging, absolute and eternal
life in the context of time,

00:47:36.490 --> 00:47:38.970
where this death
and resurrection

00:47:38.970 --> 00:47:42.980
and the realization that
these two eternities are one

00:47:42.980 --> 00:47:46.950
is what it symbolized in
the union of sun and moon.

00:47:46.950 --> 00:47:48.520
And the moment
that's usually taken

00:47:48.520 --> 00:47:53.100
as the one of, you might say,
the realization of the unity,

00:47:53.100 --> 00:47:56.380
is the moment of the 15th
night of the moon, where

00:47:56.380 --> 00:47:59.720
the moon at sundown is rising.

00:47:59.720 --> 00:48:02.640
And they sit facing each other
right across the horizon.

00:48:02.640 --> 00:48:05.340
And so this represents exactly
the marriage of the light.

00:48:12.242 --> 00:48:15.240
I'll bracket very
carefully here because we

00:48:15.240 --> 00:48:18.890
want to be sure to get-- all
right, just in case anything's

00:48:18.890 --> 00:48:20.980
awry, why don't we
do the other extreme?

00:48:20.980 --> 00:48:22.540
OK, light on.

00:48:22.540 --> 00:48:24.900
[INAUDIBLE]

00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:26.580
You see, here's the laser spot.

00:48:26.580 --> 00:48:30.520
And it's about 3/4
of inch to the left

00:48:30.520 --> 00:48:33.700
of the last turn on the
spiral, so in a horizontal line

00:48:33.700 --> 00:48:34.540
with the center.

00:48:34.540 --> 00:48:38.445
Now, if you estimate where
the shadow is set by the moon,

00:48:38.445 --> 00:48:40.070
from this edge it
would be-- it will go

00:48:40.070 --> 00:48:41.278
through this spot, of course.

00:48:41.278 --> 00:48:42.320
That's one point on it.

00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:46.310
And it will up very closely
tangent to the outside turn

00:48:46.310 --> 00:48:47.330
of the spiral here.

00:48:47.330 --> 00:48:50.870
Do you see that the laser
light is shining here?

00:48:50.870 --> 00:48:52.290
And it's just
shining on the cliff

00:48:52.290 --> 00:48:55.460
so that on the edge here,
the edge of the slab

00:48:55.460 --> 00:49:00.175
and on the edge near the
spiral, so that it represents

00:49:00.175 --> 00:49:01.050
one ray of moonlight.

00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:08.520
Their experiment shows that
the Anasazi knew the maximum as

00:49:08.520 --> 00:49:11.370
well as the minimum extremes
reached by the rising moon

00:49:11.370 --> 00:49:14.842
once every 19 years and
marked them on the spiral.

00:49:18.070 --> 00:49:20.600
And that's over a
total of 19 years

00:49:20.600 --> 00:49:23.950
that it would go from minimum to
minimum or maximum to maximum.

00:49:23.950 --> 00:49:28.251
And we've noticed that
the spiral has 19 rings.

00:49:28.251 --> 00:49:28.750
Right.

00:49:28.750 --> 00:49:31.500
So that corresponds to
the 19 years of the cycle.

00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:33.850
It seems that way from
what we've seen today.

00:49:33.850 --> 00:49:36.350
Because remember
from what I've told

00:49:36.350 --> 00:49:40.080
you, to go from the minimum
to the maximum is a 9 to 10

00:49:40.080 --> 00:49:41.180
year cycle.

00:49:41.180 --> 00:49:45.230
And the spiral has 10 rings on
the left and 9 on the right.

00:49:45.230 --> 00:49:48.960
And what we've seen here is that
from the minimum to the maximum

00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.330
it's gone across 10 rings.

00:49:51.330 --> 00:49:55.650
So this is calculating
the moon at its maximum

00:49:55.650 --> 00:49:58.200
and shines the light in on
that outer edge that just saw.

00:49:58.200 --> 00:50:00.150
Exactly, exactly.

00:50:00.150 --> 00:50:03.490
And it's been a hell of a
long time to figure it out.

00:50:03.490 --> 00:50:05.630
We came up there with some
lousy, crummy equipment.

00:50:05.630 --> 00:50:07.910
We tried it once, and
we weren't certain.

00:50:07.910 --> 00:50:09.740
And now with this
laser, I think we've

00:50:09.740 --> 00:50:11.260
got pretty good information.

00:50:11.260 --> 00:50:13.671
The two are brought
together in a marriage.

00:50:13.671 --> 00:50:14.170
Yeah.

00:50:14.170 --> 00:50:17.770
And in a way, are shadow and
light representing these two?

00:50:17.770 --> 00:50:23.290
Shadow is on the moon side
and light the sun side.

00:50:23.290 --> 00:50:26.060
What possible use would
these ancient Pueblo Indians

00:50:26.060 --> 00:50:28.210
have had for the
symbolic union of sun

00:50:28.210 --> 00:50:32.212
and moon other than a
spiritual celebration of life?

00:50:32.212 --> 00:50:35.190
So in a few moments when
the sun is at its highest

00:50:35.190 --> 00:50:37.250
position, just about
noon, the light

00:50:37.250 --> 00:50:39.140
will be coming through
both of the openings

00:50:39.140 --> 00:50:41.270
here onto the spirals.

00:50:41.270 --> 00:50:43.950
And we now know that this is the
opening that forms the summer

00:50:43.950 --> 00:50:48.500
solstice light, and this one
channels the equinox light.

00:50:48.500 --> 00:50:52.630
And the two together do the
winter solstice formation.

00:50:52.630 --> 00:50:54.350
And what we've
learned recently is

00:50:54.350 --> 00:50:59.310
that this slab on the other
edge that faces out to the east

00:50:59.310 --> 00:51:03.640
casts a shadow from the rising
sun or the full moon that

00:51:03.640 --> 00:51:07.630
goes across the spiral
here in a diagonal shadow.

00:51:07.630 --> 00:51:09.920
And what seems to
be apparent now

00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:11.700
is the lowest
position of the moon

00:51:11.700 --> 00:51:15.130
is right there in the center,
and the highest over here

00:51:15.130 --> 00:51:17.770
on the left-hand edge.

00:51:17.770 --> 00:51:23.950
Now, if we look inside down
here at summer solstice,

00:51:23.950 --> 00:51:26.160
the opening here
on the right side

00:51:26.160 --> 00:51:28.490
creates the dagger to go
right down to the center

00:51:28.490 --> 00:51:30.010
of the large spiral.

00:51:30.010 --> 00:51:33.420
And then at equinox, the
left-hand opening back there

00:51:33.420 --> 00:51:36.210
creates a dagger going right
through the little spiral.

00:51:36.210 --> 00:51:39.150
And at winter solstice,
the two working together

00:51:39.150 --> 00:51:42.330
go to the outer edges
of the large spiral

00:51:42.330 --> 00:51:45.240
here and here, bracketing
it, holding it empty.

00:51:45.240 --> 00:51:47.940
It's really quite complex
how all of those edges

00:51:47.940 --> 00:51:50.320
work through the seasons.

00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:51.780
You're only one person.

00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:55.330
And you can show
what you observe.

00:51:55.330 --> 00:51:57.840
But that's what I mean by
it's a big responsibility.

00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.330
Because you have to
take care of what

00:52:00.330 --> 00:52:03.120
you know about it now
and talking about it.

00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:05.775
And those people that you are
going to show all this stuff to

00:52:05.775 --> 00:52:09.060
in England, they're going to
be very skeptical about it.

00:52:09.060 --> 00:52:11.250
No one wants to look
at anything like that

00:52:11.250 --> 00:52:14.770
because it's too primitive.

00:52:14.770 --> 00:52:18.990
At the Archeoastronomy Symposium
held at Queens College, Oxford,

00:52:18.990 --> 00:52:22.260
England, in September
of 1981, Anna

00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:24.650
was invited to give a
paper on the sun calendar

00:52:24.650 --> 00:52:25.899
and the new lunar discoveries.

00:52:28.720 --> 00:52:31.230
Experts at the conference
subjected the lunar discoveries

00:52:31.230 --> 00:52:33.490
to the same scrutiny they've
applied to the highly

00:52:33.490 --> 00:52:35.720
controversial claims
made for Stonehenge

00:52:35.720 --> 00:52:36.778
and other British sites.

00:52:40.130 --> 00:52:44.060
The conclusion reached by this
international group of scholars

00:52:44.060 --> 00:52:45.940
was that Fajada
Butte is presently

00:52:45.940 --> 00:52:47.870
the only known site
in the world where

00:52:47.870 --> 00:52:50.770
the extreme positions of
both the sun and the moon

00:52:50.770 --> 00:52:52.360
are marked.

00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:55.770
A noted British archaeologist
wrote that understanding Fajada

00:52:55.770 --> 00:52:58.070
Butte may help
European researchers

00:52:58.070 --> 00:53:01.950
to understand their own
silent megaliths better.

00:53:01.950 --> 00:53:03.730
This unique
achievement, a monument

00:53:03.730 --> 00:53:06.060
of the American
Indians' heritage,

00:53:06.060 --> 00:53:08.300
is a part of a culture
whose borders spread far

00:53:08.300 --> 00:53:11.330
beyond the protective boundaries
of the Chaco Canyon National

00:53:11.330 --> 00:53:14.270
Park and throughout
the San Juan Basin.

00:53:14.270 --> 00:53:19.030
Here, the Anasazi once grew
rich in culture and in spirit.

00:53:19.030 --> 00:53:23.160
We know this much-- their
quest was for knowledge,

00:53:23.160 --> 00:53:27.500
for a kind of wisdom that
brings peace, peace with oneself

00:53:27.500 --> 00:53:30.010
and with one's surroundings.

00:53:30.010 --> 00:53:33.620
But the land of the Anasazi,
this great San Juan Basin,

00:53:33.620 --> 00:53:38.770
is rich in material
things-- one sixth

00:53:38.770 --> 00:53:44.250
of all the uranium on earth
and huge deposits of coal.

00:53:44.250 --> 00:53:48.020
We demand the power
sleeping in this land.

00:53:48.020 --> 00:53:51.680
But we need to know
what the Anasazi knew,

00:53:51.680 --> 00:53:55.100
the secrets sleeping
in this land--

00:53:55.100 --> 00:53:57.990
not a simple matter
of technology.

00:53:57.990 --> 00:53:59.777
Technology has no wisdom.

00:54:03.870 --> 00:54:06.515
If the soul of the
land is destroyed,

00:54:06.515 --> 00:54:08.415
we will lose forever
the inheritance

00:54:08.415 --> 00:54:11.110
the Anasazi left us.

00:54:11.110 --> 00:54:13.690
Those shadowy people
we will never know,

00:54:13.690 --> 00:54:16.927
the sense of community
with earth and sky and all

00:54:16.927 --> 00:54:17.677
that they contain.

00:54:41.533 --> 00:54:44.018
The whole world is one song.

00:54:44.018 --> 00:54:47.000
It's like an opera, everything
gearing with everything

00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:50.010
else, with the animals,
with the sun, with all that.

00:54:50.010 --> 00:54:52.180
And that's the feeling
you get when you stay

00:54:52.180 --> 00:54:53.690
with this stuff a little while.

00:54:53.690 --> 00:54:55.845
It begins to talk
to you that way,

00:54:55.845 --> 00:54:57.825
and you see things that way.

00:54:57.825 --> 00:55:02.280
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:55:40.754 --> 00:55:42.170
Well, there's an
interesting thing

00:55:42.170 --> 00:55:44.830
that is happening with
somewhat sensitive people.

00:55:44.830 --> 00:55:49.100
When they come in touch with
the so-called primitive modes,

00:55:49.100 --> 00:55:51.030
they are deeply touched.

00:55:51.030 --> 00:55:53.340
And I know many, many
people whose lives

00:55:53.340 --> 00:55:57.090
have been enriched by contact
of one kind or another

00:55:57.090 --> 00:56:00.130
with these kind of
lithological traditions.

00:56:00.130 --> 00:56:04.500
And of course, what stands
out most in this Chaco Canyon

00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:07.320
phenomenon that
you found is just

00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:11.220
the incredible character
of the little device itself

00:56:11.220 --> 00:56:12.464
and what it has done.

00:56:32.230 --> 00:56:35.500
And once you begin to get into
a sense of the real miracle

00:56:35.500 --> 00:56:38.670
of the experience of these
people, the sun itself

00:56:38.670 --> 00:56:41.902
and the moon itself talking
to them, get into that,

00:56:41.902 --> 00:56:43.490
well, it helps me.

00:56:43.490 --> 00:56:45.800
I get the feeling
of an induction

00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:47.874
through this into
a mode of thinking.

00:56:47.874 --> 00:56:48.862
It's profound.

00:56:51.830 --> 00:56:55.100
And I've been very moved by
what the Indians have said to me

00:56:55.100 --> 00:56:58.000
when they said, but really,
it probably will never

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.008
reveal all its secrets.

00:57:00.008 --> 00:57:02.990
Seems appropriate
that a place that's

00:57:02.990 --> 00:57:05.900
so removed from our
culture and from us

00:57:05.900 --> 00:57:08.120
should still have certain
things to itself that we

00:57:08.120 --> 00:57:09.575
wouldn't be able to analyze.

00:57:23.435 --> 00:57:29.140
[MUSIC PLAYING]