00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.066
(dramatic hum)

00:00:35.233 --> 00:00:37.033
- [Voiceover] Gary, in Dunsford,
joins us on the program,

00:00:37.033 --> 00:00:40.133
has a question about,
dare I say, white pointers

00:00:40.133 --> 00:00:43.000
and the shark issue,
good morning, Gary.

00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:44.166
- [Gary] Good morning,
how 're ya goin'?

00:00:44.166 --> 00:00:45.700
- [Colin] Good day,
hi Gary, Colin.

00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:50.066
- [Gary] Look, human beings,
as Senator Siewart says,

00:00:50.066 --> 00:00:54.300
it's common sense that we're
superior to animal life.

00:00:54.300 --> 00:00:56.733
These white pointers are
being seen more and more.

00:00:56.733 --> 00:00:58.633
We're very concerned that
it's gonna be another

00:00:58.633 --> 00:01:00.833
couple a deaths before
we can get the Minister

00:01:00.833 --> 00:01:02.800
to do something about it.

00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.100
The moral authority for
this exists in Genesis,

00:01:07.100 --> 00:01:11.766
Chapter 1:28 where we're told
that man subdued the earth

00:01:11.766 --> 00:01:15.433
and use animals,
sensibly of course.

00:01:15.433 --> 00:01:17.933
So, my question to you sir is,

00:01:17.933 --> 00:01:21.333
can you be a bit more proactive?

00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:23.700
- [Colin] Given
what Gary just said,

00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:25.500
if sharks are sighted
off the beach,

00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:26.933
that's pretty frightening.

00:01:26.933 --> 00:01:30.566
I think if a shark is
around where people are,

00:01:30.566 --> 00:01:33.000
staying in-shore in
a threatening way,

00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:35.500
I think they can, sharks
should be destroyed.

00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:40.500
(dramatic hum)

00:01:50.066 --> 00:01:55.066
(soft melody emerges)

00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.466
[Voiceover] Thousands
of sharks die every day

00:02:37.466 --> 00:02:38.700
across the globe.

00:02:39.866 --> 00:02:42.200
So why are you being
shown these sharks?

00:02:43.066 --> 00:02:44.866
What makes them different?

00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.400
It is possible that
these sharks represent

00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:51.500
the bigger picture of
conservation issues

00:02:51.500 --> 00:02:54.766
facing sharks and
the environment.

00:02:55.766 --> 00:02:59.733
Because, what you're seeing
is not unregulated poaching

00:02:59.733 --> 00:03:03.800
in a third world country,
but a government sactioned

00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:06.633
targeting of a
vulnerable species

00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:11.933
already listed as protected
in that same country.

00:03:13.533 --> 00:03:15.000
Confused?

00:03:15.933 --> 00:03:17.233
So was I.

00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:26.300
And that's why we
should ask questions.

00:03:29.533 --> 00:03:32.833
Because maybe the killing of
these sharks is justified.

00:03:33.600 --> 00:03:36.400
Maybe there is a perfectly
good reason for it.

00:03:37.700 --> 00:03:39.533
But what if there's not?

00:03:41.533 --> 00:03:45.833
What if all this death is
fueled by false information?

00:03:50.933 --> 00:03:53.466
Even if you don't like sharks,

00:03:53.466 --> 00:03:56.366
doesn't that make you
wonder what's going on?

00:03:56.366 --> 00:04:01.366
(dramatic melody)

00:04:03.700 --> 00:04:08.633
(heavy drums)

00:04:15.533 --> 00:04:19.933
In January, 2014, the
Western Australian Government

00:04:19.933 --> 00:04:22.766
sought an exemption from
the Federal Government

00:04:22.766 --> 00:04:27.233
to hunt and kill a protected
species in that country.

00:04:27.233 --> 00:04:31.166
Environmental Minister Greg
Hunt granted the exemption

00:04:31.166 --> 00:04:35.300
citing "economic concern"
of national interest.

00:04:35.533 --> 00:04:37.266
- The fact that the
Environment Minister

00:04:37.266 --> 00:04:41.233
at federal level gave an
exemption to federal laws,

00:04:41.233 --> 00:04:43.300
based not on science,
and not on any

00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:45.233
environmental considerations,

00:04:45.233 --> 00:04:48.466
but something called
the "national interests"

00:04:48.466 --> 00:04:51.900
based on how much
tourism dollars

00:04:51.900 --> 00:04:55.966
were being lost by
Western Australia,

00:04:55.966 --> 00:04:59.400
as claimed by the
Premier in his letter,

00:04:59.400 --> 00:05:01.600
or the Fisheries Minister

00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.300
in his letter to Greg Hunt.

00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:07.933
- Which did not require
actual research or facts?

00:05:07.933 --> 00:05:11.000
- Well that case, we
have repeatedly asked

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.700
for that application
to be made public.

00:05:14.700 --> 00:05:17.466
To date we have not
seen that application.

00:05:17.466 --> 00:05:19.733
- The Minister has
used a section of the

00:05:19.733 --> 00:05:21.966
Environmental Protection
Biodiversity Conservation Act

00:05:21.966 --> 00:05:25.033
to justify the exemption,

00:05:25.033 --> 00:05:27.200
a section that has
never been used

00:05:27.200 --> 00:05:29.000
for this type of thing before.

00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:33.266
And there is very little
analysis of any economic impact

00:05:33.266 --> 00:05:35.366
other than what
the Premier said.

00:05:35.366 --> 00:05:37.600
- Certainly the last person
that you would ever want

00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:42.166
to agree to allowing them
to hunt a protected species

00:05:42.166 --> 00:05:44.333
is your Minister
of the Environment.

00:05:44.333 --> 00:05:47.833
- Ministers of the
Environment are usually not

00:05:47.833 --> 00:05:50.966
top of the pecking order in
any government situation.

00:05:50.966 --> 00:05:52.933
You know you've got
your Finance Ministers,

00:05:52.933 --> 00:05:55.300
and you've got
Ministers that matter,

00:05:55.300 --> 00:05:58.200
and then you've got others
that they kind of need

00:05:58.200 --> 00:06:00.433
to give a Ministerial
position to.

00:06:01.100 --> 00:06:04.600
- You've got politicians
that are funded by people

00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:07.033
with some serious
money, and these people

00:06:07.033 --> 00:06:10.000
have got holiday houses
along these strip of coasts.

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:12.833
I'm sure it's in their
vested interest that

00:06:12.833 --> 00:06:16.800
something be done to
alleviate a perceived problem.

00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.433
- [Interviewer] It doesn't
matter what the scientists

00:06:18.433 --> 00:06:20.466
say then, it's about
making people--

00:06:20.466 --> 00:06:22.800
- [Lee] Well it hasn't
been up to this point.

00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:25.466
- A shark is not allowed
to be in the coast.

00:06:25.466 --> 00:06:28.866
It's not allowed to be chasing
salmon, or chasing whale,

00:06:28.866 --> 00:06:31.833
chasing it's food source
without being labeled as

00:06:31.833 --> 00:06:33.866
an imminent threat to people.

00:06:33.866 --> 00:06:35.866
- Put it this way,
if you find that

00:06:35.866 --> 00:06:39.500
what a Minister
does seems extremely
strange and irrational,

00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:42.133
can I suggest that
extreme synicism

00:06:42.133 --> 00:06:44.200
is what get's you
nearest the truth.

00:06:45.033 --> 00:06:46.866
- When I started my research,

00:06:46.866 --> 00:06:48.166
relating to my Master's Degree,

00:06:48.166 --> 00:06:50.733
I looked at WA's
policy in which started

00:06:50.733 --> 00:06:53.766
with the Ken Crew
incident in 2000.

00:06:53.766 --> 00:06:56.766
And then the now-Premier,
Colin Barnett, goes

00:06:56.766 --> 00:06:59.133
to the State House
floor and it's in the

00:06:59.133 --> 00:07:02.033
Parliamentary Record,
says "Cottesloe Beach,"

00:07:03.733 --> 00:07:05.666
it's his electorate,
and he says,

00:07:05.666 --> 00:07:08.233
"I think this is the same shark.

00:07:08.233 --> 00:07:09.533
"It's come back.

00:07:09.533 --> 00:07:11.200
"It's harassing
these people in 2003,

00:07:11.200 --> 00:07:12.466
"could be the same
shark that's coming back

00:07:12.466 --> 00:07:15.733
"and harassing us, so
what we need to do is

00:07:15.733 --> 00:07:17.566
"we need to have a
policy that preemptively

00:07:17.566 --> 00:07:19.200
"kills these sharks."

00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:21.333
And so, in many ways, the
catch-and-kill policy,

00:07:21.333 --> 00:07:23.700
the imminent threat
policy, are all predicated

00:07:23.700 --> 00:07:25.600
on the belief that rogue sharks,

00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:27.900
that "Jaws" sharks, exist.

00:07:27.900 --> 00:07:32.066
And that sharks are not fish,
they are movie monsters,

00:07:32.066 --> 00:07:34.000
and you need to have
government policies

00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.033
that treat them
like movie monsters.

00:07:36.033 --> 00:07:38.200
- [Interviewer] Wait, so
he's been wanting to do this

00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:41.333
for a long time, and finally
got federal clearance

00:07:41.333 --> 00:07:43.266
based on the excuse
of economics?

00:07:43.266 --> 00:07:45.066
- They've been doing
all of this since 2000.

00:07:45.066 --> 00:07:47.066
The only difference is that
they didn't kill the shark.

00:07:47.066 --> 00:07:49.800
The rhetoric has been there,
the policy has been there,

00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:51.700
but the shark wasn't.

00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:54.733
- [Voiceover] When Fisheries
Minister Ken Baston

00:07:54.733 --> 00:07:56.766
officially announced the cull,

00:07:56.766 --> 00:08:00.333
he stated that success of
the cull would be measured

00:08:00.333 --> 00:08:02.366
by the number of
white sharks caught.

00:08:04.066 --> 00:08:07.266
Not a single white
shark was caught.

00:08:07.933 --> 00:08:09.633
But that didn't
stop the government

00:08:09.633 --> 00:08:12.466
from declaring the
cull a success anyway,

00:08:12.466 --> 00:08:14.600
stating that they had "restored

00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:17.200
public confidence
in beach safety."

00:08:17.700 --> 00:08:20.500
But, if they weren't
killing white sharks,

00:08:21.133 --> 00:08:22.700
what were they killing?

00:08:23.466 --> 00:08:26.866
- So we've caught
100 tiger sharks

00:08:26.866 --> 00:08:29.633
over the last three months,
over 100 tiger sharks.

00:08:29.633 --> 00:08:32.033
They all had been
hangin' out here,

00:08:32.033 --> 00:08:33.666
yet nobody's been hurt.

00:08:33.666 --> 00:08:35.900
In all that time,
and nobody was hurt.

00:08:35.900 --> 00:08:37.066
- It's not like the sharks just

00:08:37.066 --> 00:08:39.100
appeared suddenly
because there's a cull.

00:08:39.100 --> 00:08:42.000
- Exactly, so individuals
will be moving through,

00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:46.233
but this is obviously an
area that tiger sharks use.

00:08:46.233 --> 00:08:48.700
They've probably been moving
through last year as well,

00:08:48.700 --> 00:08:52.000
and the year before, and
the year before that.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.600
Yet, the last fatality
from a tiger shark

00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:57.066
in this region was in 1925.

00:08:57.833 --> 00:08:59.566
So the fact that we
have these animals

00:08:59.566 --> 00:09:02.266
in our waters, off of
our beaches, doesn't mean

00:09:02.266 --> 00:09:04.433
that people are gonna get hurt.

00:09:06.266 --> 00:09:07.700
(waves crashing)

00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:10.100
- [Interviewer] If
scientists were able to say

00:09:10.100 --> 00:09:14.666
100% for sure, from
this date to this date,

00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:18.600
the white sharks are here,
and after that they're clear,

00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:21.766
would you give up the
ocean during those dates?

00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.200
- Well, no.
- [Interviewer] No.

00:09:26.266 --> 00:09:31.033
So I'm not sure I understand,
if white sharks were

00:09:31.033 --> 00:09:34.266
what were raising all the
concern, and it was known

00:09:34.266 --> 00:09:36.333
this isn't the right time
of year for white sharks,

00:09:36.333 --> 00:09:38.000
what was the point?

00:09:38.500 --> 00:09:40.600
Well, you've gotta start
somewhere, you know.

00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:43.266
It's the first time it's been
done in Western Australia,

00:09:43.266 --> 00:09:48.000
and it was all very much
an exercise of trial.

00:09:48.266 --> 00:09:50.500
- So it wasn't really about
catching the right animal,

00:09:50.500 --> 00:09:53.000
it was just about getting
used to the process?

00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:56.700
- [Graeme] Yeah, yeah,
and it wasn't necessarily,

00:09:56.700 --> 00:09:59.666
is another thing I think
the public didn't quite get,

00:09:59.666 --> 00:10:03.466
it was, a body count doesn't
actually win the war.

00:10:03.466 --> 00:10:06.333
It's not about killing
vast number of sharks,

00:10:06.333 --> 00:10:09.000
and this is what the
activists are on about.

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.000
They're suggesting
that it's a slaughter,

00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.100
and we're out there
to kill 'em all,

00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:15.266
but that's not the case at all.

00:10:15.266 --> 00:10:19.200
It was only those animals
that came within 1,000 meters

00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:22.300
of popular swimming beaches.

00:10:22.300 --> 00:10:24.866
And that's the way
the gear was placed

00:10:24.866 --> 00:10:29.200
and targeted, and that was the
whole purpose of the thing.

00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:31.300
Of the exercise, it's
not necessarily to kill

00:10:31.300 --> 00:10:35.166
great numbers of animals,
it's kill those ones

00:10:35.166 --> 00:10:37.833
that stray into those

00:10:38.333 --> 00:10:41.300
high recreation use areas.

00:10:41.300 --> 00:10:43.200
- But what if
that's not straying?

00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:44.866
What if you find
out that that's just

00:10:44.866 --> 00:10:46.733
where they typically go?

00:10:46.733 --> 00:10:49.800
- Well, you've gotta
put people first,

00:10:49.800 --> 00:10:52.666
you know, sharks second.

00:10:53.400 --> 00:10:55.266
- This is a beach, this
is a pleasure beach.

00:10:55.266 --> 00:10:58.400
They've got about
3,000 miles to swim in.

00:10:59.266 --> 00:11:01.166
- [Man] Because they
should all be dead,

00:11:01.166 --> 00:11:02.833
everyone of them.

00:11:02.833 --> 00:11:04.533
- [Shirtless man] The sharks?

00:11:04.533 --> 00:11:05.966
- [Man with child]] Yeah,
the sharks, all of 'em.

00:11:05.966 --> 00:11:07.500
I"ve seen two you know,
because they're a menace,

00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:09.700
they're a problem,
there's too many of 'em.

00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:11.533
- [Man] And you've seen two?

00:11:11.533 --> 00:11:14.066
- [Man with child] I've seen
two, yeah, that's just me, too.

00:11:14.866 --> 00:11:16.866
- I've been meeting a few people

00:11:16.866 --> 00:11:18.933
who use the water
recreationally,

00:11:18.933 --> 00:11:21.900
who feel convinced that

00:11:21.900 --> 00:11:24.400
shark numbers are increasing.

00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:27.800
And therefore, this cull
is actually a good idea.

00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:30.433
How do you respond to that?

00:11:30.433 --> 00:11:32.700
- Well, one would hope that
shark numbers are actually

00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:35.066
increasing, because
we've had recovery plans

00:11:35.066 --> 00:11:36.933
in place for a while now.

00:11:36.933 --> 00:11:39.166
So you want to see
population recovery.

00:11:39.166 --> 00:11:40.100
- [Interviewer} The
goal actually was

00:11:40.100 --> 00:11:41.566
for the numbers to increase

00:11:41.566 --> 00:11:42.800
- [Jessica] Absolutely,
because they had been reduced

00:11:42.800 --> 00:11:44.900
to levels that
were unsustainable.

00:11:44.900 --> 00:11:46.333
- What they're
seeing in Australia

00:11:46.333 --> 00:11:48.500
is very akin to what
we've seen here in the US.

00:11:48.500 --> 00:11:51.666
So, they've also experienced
ecosystem recovery

00:11:51.666 --> 00:11:54.600
in the form of that marine
mammals have come back,

00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:57.200
and with that, and
protection for white sharks,

00:11:57.200 --> 00:11:58.633
it's a no-brainer.

00:11:58.633 --> 00:12:00.933
I mean that is why they
put that legislation

00:12:00.933 --> 00:12:04.400
in place, was to protect
white shark populations

00:12:04.400 --> 00:12:06.900
that are sensitive
to overfishing.

00:12:06.900 --> 00:12:10.033
And it did exactly what
they wanted it to do.

00:12:10.033 --> 00:12:12.966
It brought, not just white
shark populations back,

00:12:12.966 --> 00:12:15.000
but the other populations
back that white sharks

00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.566
were relying on.

00:12:16.566 --> 00:12:21.033
So now that you get what you
originally intended to do,

00:12:21.033 --> 00:12:23.866
your solution is to go out
and kill a bunch of 'em?

00:12:23.866 --> 00:12:25.466
That's ridiculous.

00:12:25.466 --> 00:12:27.100
- [Interviewer] Now when you
say you wouldn't give it up.

00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:30.366
Would you then just
accept the risk,

00:12:30.366 --> 00:12:33.033
or would you like them
to mitigate sharks

00:12:33.033 --> 00:12:34.900
during those months.

00:12:40.133 --> 00:12:45.133
(peaceful music)

00:13:07.933 --> 00:13:10.466
- [Voiceover] While Australia's
Minister of the Environment

00:13:10.466 --> 00:13:14.266
declared sharks an enemy
of national interest,

00:13:14.266 --> 00:13:18.066
other locations have found
them to be a national treasure.

00:13:18.066 --> 00:13:20.833
- What's amazing to me
is that Colin Barnett

00:13:20.833 --> 00:13:24.666
would use tourism for
Australia as a driving force

00:13:24.666 --> 00:13:27.733
to put this shark
cull into existence,

00:13:27.733 --> 00:13:30.233
when right now,
world-wide, there is

00:13:30.233 --> 00:13:33.833
a"Boycott Australia"
tourism movement because

00:13:33.833 --> 00:13:35.900
of what they're
doing to the sharks.

00:13:35.900 --> 00:13:37.966
When you look into it
a little bit deeper,

00:13:37.966 --> 00:13:40.533
you'll find that the main
shark that they're killing,

00:13:40.533 --> 00:13:43.633
the tiger shark, is
the main attraction

00:13:43.633 --> 00:13:46.500
at places like the
Bahamas where I operate,

00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.866
which results in an
$80-million a year industry.

00:13:50.866 --> 00:13:54.133
This a no-brainer from
tourism standpoint.

00:13:54.133 --> 00:13:56.166
When you add in the simple fact

00:13:56.166 --> 00:13:59.866
that our future generations
need healthy oceans,

00:13:59.866 --> 00:14:02.066
it should be
stopped immediately.

00:14:02.066 --> 00:14:07.000
(peaceful music)

00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:23.333
- [Interviewer] You can't
remove sharks from the system

00:14:23.333 --> 00:14:24.933
without affecting
everything else, right?

00:14:24.933 --> 00:14:27.233
- Absolutely, there
is increasing evidence

00:14:27.233 --> 00:14:29.800
from around the
world that having

00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:32.900
what we call apex predators,
top of the food chain,

00:14:33.900 --> 00:14:36.000
is essential to
healthy eco-systems.

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.833
So there's been
suggestions, for instance,

00:14:38.833 --> 00:14:42.733
that, or evidence to say
that, when you remove sharks,

00:14:42.733 --> 00:14:45.633
you actually can negatively
impact coral health.

00:14:45.633 --> 00:14:49.366
Because through than trophic
cascading down the system

00:14:49.366 --> 00:14:51.300
you actually start
losing your herbivores,

00:14:51.300 --> 00:14:52.766
the fish that eat all the algae

00:14:52.766 --> 00:14:54.633
and keep the algae
in check on the reef.

00:14:54.633 --> 00:14:57.433
And when you lose those
algae-eating fish,

00:14:57.433 --> 00:15:01.033
the corals have to compete
much harder with algae.

00:15:01.033 --> 00:15:02.966
And so there's
all these linkages

00:15:02.966 --> 00:15:04.400
that we don't really understand.

00:15:04.400 --> 00:15:06.933
There's a fantastic example,
well a depressing example,

00:15:07.766 --> 00:15:11.933
from the Atlantic where
the removal of large sharks

00:15:11.933 --> 00:15:14.700
led to an explosion of
rays, and the rays ate

00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:18.366
all the scallops, and that
killed the scallop fishery.

00:15:18.366 --> 00:15:20.233
So, not only are
sharks important

00:15:20.233 --> 00:15:22.766
for healthy eco-systems,
they're actually important

00:15:22.766 --> 00:15:24.600
for supporting healthy fisheries

00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.333
and economic activity
that we're engaged in.

00:15:29.066 --> 00:15:31.200
- [Voiceover] In
complex eco-systems,

00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:34.233
such as those of the
ocean, who's to say

00:15:34.233 --> 00:15:37.100
what unforeseen
consequences might befall us

00:15:37.100 --> 00:15:39.900
by systematically
removing predators.

00:15:40.766 --> 00:15:43.100
What if the removal
of tiger sharks

00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:45.433
gives way to another
animal that poses

00:15:45.433 --> 00:15:48.200
a significant threat to safety?

00:15:48.733 --> 00:15:50.900
And when we are fed propaganda,

00:15:50.900 --> 00:15:54.533
instead of facts, doesn't
that undermine our ability

00:15:54.533 --> 00:15:56.566
to properly assess risk?

00:16:00.733 --> 00:16:04.333
- [Interviewer] What about
people who are of the mind set

00:16:04.333 --> 00:16:06.466
of "Who cares? It's a shark.

00:16:06.466 --> 00:16:09.033
"What's wrong with
you hippy people?

00:16:09.033 --> 00:16:10.633
"What's wrong with
killing them?"

00:16:10.633 --> 00:16:12.700
- To those people, I generally
have two things to say.

00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:15.833
The first is that I'm
interested in beach safety,

00:16:15.833 --> 00:16:19.933
and if I know that killing
sharks isn't gonna make you

00:16:19.933 --> 00:16:22.233
any safer, instead
it's going to give you

00:16:22.233 --> 00:16:24.566
a false sense of security
that probably increases

00:16:24.566 --> 00:16:27.266
your risk, then you should care.

00:16:27.266 --> 00:16:30.166
And the second is that
my scientist friends,

00:16:30.166 --> 00:16:33.266
and marine biologists will
talk about trophic cascades

00:16:33.266 --> 00:16:34.833
and the impact
that you can have.

00:16:34.833 --> 00:16:36.700
So, you saw this
in South Africa,

00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:38.733
where they fished out a
lot of the white sharks

00:16:38.733 --> 00:16:40.766
and there was an
increase in dusky sharks.

00:16:40.766 --> 00:16:43.966
And there was just a
very serious shark bite

00:16:43.966 --> 00:16:45.866
from dusky shark a
couple of years ago,

00:16:45.866 --> 00:16:48.266
and dusky shark jaws are
stronger than white sharks'.

00:16:48.766 --> 00:16:50.966
So, you know, if you want
to have a conversation

00:16:50.966 --> 00:16:54.033
about really lowering
risk, you've gotta look

00:16:54.033 --> 00:16:55.800
at all these issues.

00:16:56.366 --> 00:17:00.300
- In Brazil these
sharks are surviving,

00:17:00.300 --> 00:17:02.366
and they're tagging them.

00:17:02.366 --> 00:17:04.200
What have they learned
from the sharks

00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:05.566
that they've released?

00:17:05.566 --> 00:17:08.366
- So what they found out
is that the tiger sharks

00:17:08.366 --> 00:17:10.266
that they release don't
actually come back

00:17:10.266 --> 00:17:11.733
to their point of capture.

00:17:11.733 --> 00:17:13.433
So they have one
particular beach,

00:17:13.433 --> 00:17:15.866
it called Recife,
a big tourism area,

00:17:15.866 --> 00:17:17.933
lots of people in the
water, they'd had a series

00:17:17.933 --> 00:17:20.166
of incidents there,
so they were concerned

00:17:20.166 --> 00:17:22.266
about the impact on tourism.

00:17:22.266 --> 00:17:24.766
So instead of culling
the sharks like here,

00:17:24.766 --> 00:17:26.900
they would capture them,
take them out to sea,

00:17:26.900 --> 00:17:29.533
put a tag on them,
and release them.

00:17:29.533 --> 00:17:32.066
None of the sharks that
were tagged ever came back.

00:17:32.066 --> 00:17:33.433
And what that tells you is that

00:17:33.433 --> 00:17:35.133
they're just continuing
along their journey.

00:17:35.133 --> 00:17:38.933
They're not representing
a resident risk

00:17:38.933 --> 00:17:40.400
to the beach goers.

00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.800
So that was really
important knowledge.

00:17:42.800 --> 00:17:45.333
- Well, what you work
out,the young ones

00:17:45.333 --> 00:17:49.333
hang about together
on the east coast,

00:17:49.333 --> 00:17:53.833
and that they do these
incredible long journeys.

00:17:53.833 --> 00:17:57.200
You realize that just by
catching a couple of sharks

00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.566
in one area isn't going
to get rid of those sharks

00:18:00.566 --> 00:18:04.000
from that area, because
they do, they'll come past,

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.666
and keep coming until
you've caught every one

00:18:06.666 --> 00:18:10.033
in the whole
southern hemisphere.

00:18:10.033 --> 00:18:12.533
- You can fish a shark
population down to nothing

00:18:12.533 --> 00:18:16.466
and one shark coming through
could create that situation.

00:18:16.466 --> 00:18:17.866
And, what are you gonna do?

00:18:17.866 --> 00:18:20.666
You can't catch every last
one, and in doing that

00:18:20.666 --> 00:18:23.733
you just continue to do
damage to the eco-system.

00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:25.466
- [Interviewer]
Why does the cull

00:18:25.466 --> 00:18:27.033
in Western Australia
concern you?

00:18:27.300 --> 00:18:29.033
- Well, west might be a long way

00:18:29.033 --> 00:18:30.700
in terms of human terms.

00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:32.500
The shark population
that we have here

00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:34.600
in South Australia
of white sharks

00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:36.366
is the same population
as they have

00:18:36.366 --> 00:18:37.866
in Western Australia.

00:18:37.866 --> 00:18:42.166
It's one population which is
the southern and western one.

00:18:42.166 --> 00:18:44.100
So the sharks that
we're researching here

00:18:44.100 --> 00:18:47.100
in South Australia,
migrate huge distances

00:18:47.100 --> 00:18:49.100
all the way up the WA coastline.

00:18:49.100 --> 00:18:51.400
So any white shark that
you might encounter

00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:54.966
or that might get
killed over in WA

00:18:54.966 --> 00:18:57.966
is likely a shark that we've
encountered here in SA.

00:18:57.966 --> 00:19:02.966
(peaceful music)

00:19:13.800 --> 00:19:15.900
- [Voiceover] Western
Australia may currently be

00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:18.900
in the media's eye because
of their shark cull.

00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:21.966
But they are not the
first or only location

00:19:21.966 --> 00:19:25.566
culling sharks, and sadly,

00:19:25.566 --> 00:19:27.600
they may not be the last.

00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:30.000
- The worry that what
happens in Western Australia

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.966
could influence other
countries is completely true.

00:19:31.966 --> 00:19:36.000
I mean I was hired by the
Reunionaise Government

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.766
to fly out to Reunion
Island and when I got there

00:19:39.766 --> 00:19:42.900
all of the surfers said to
me, "They hunt and kill sharks

00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:46.000
"in Western Australia. Why
don't we do that here?"

00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:49.066
It came up time and time again,

00:19:49.066 --> 00:19:50.900
that Western
Australia is doing it.

00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:53.366
Australia has shark nets,
why don't we have shark nets?

00:19:53.366 --> 00:19:54.933
Western Australia
has shark hunts,

00:19:54.933 --> 00:19:56.400
why don't we have shark hunts?

00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.966
Queensland has drum line,
why don't we have drum lines?

00:19:58.966 --> 00:20:01.833
And Australia is seen as
the model for beach safety.

00:20:01.833 --> 00:20:03.200
It's the sunburnt country.

00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:05.933
It's the perfect surf lifesaver

00:20:06.533 --> 00:20:08.666
taking on the waves.

00:20:08.666 --> 00:20:11.400
And the simple fact is
is that that reputation

00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:13.466
translates into
shark control and

00:20:13.466 --> 00:20:15.266
translates into perceptions

00:20:15.266 --> 00:20:16.866
of how to respond
to shark bites.

00:20:16.866 --> 00:20:18.733
That ends up being a
problem when the policies

00:20:18.733 --> 00:20:22.366
that they choose are barbaric,

00:20:22.366 --> 00:20:24.533
behind the times,

00:20:24.533 --> 00:20:27.533
or simply mis-informed, which is

00:20:27.533 --> 00:20:29.866
what the current
environment we're in.

00:20:29.866 --> 00:20:32.800
And so when people are
modeling bad behavior,

00:20:32.800 --> 00:20:36.800
to expand it, we end
up with a problem.

00:20:36.800 --> 00:20:40.533
Almost all of it is based on
the models off of Australia.

00:20:40.533 --> 00:20:43.166
South Africa's nets and
their drum lines in Durbin,

00:20:43.166 --> 00:20:45.400
are based on the
Queensland nets.

00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:48.400
Queensland put it's
nets in in 1957.

00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.066
Natal put it's nets in in 1962.

00:20:52.066 --> 00:20:55.866
- The biggest thing that I
find about culling sharks

00:20:55.866 --> 00:20:59.500
in any area, is that
it will catch on,

00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:02.000
and that fear will generate,
and everybody will want

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.100
to do it in their area.

00:21:04.100 --> 00:21:07.900
Because so many times
I've said to people,

00:21:09.033 --> 00:21:10.900
"You know the sharks
do a wonderful job."

00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:13.100
"Yes, yes," they say, "I
understand that sharks

00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:15.500
"are really good, that
they're needed in our oceans."

00:21:15.500 --> 00:21:18.766
Yes, they're needed in
our ocean, and I say,

00:21:18.766 --> 00:21:20.766
"and the Jaws movie was fiction.

00:21:20.766 --> 00:21:22.800
"They don't chase and
hunt down people."

00:21:22.800 --> 00:21:26.600
"Yes, yes, I understand that,
but let's just get rid of them

00:21:26.600 --> 00:21:28.666
"from around my beach."

00:21:28.666 --> 00:21:33.666
(tense music)

00:21:45.866 --> 00:21:48.133
- Let me categorize it into the

00:21:48.133 --> 00:21:51.033
offshore fisherman whose nets

00:21:51.033 --> 00:21:52.800
and long lines don't
descriminate, and

00:21:52.800 --> 00:21:55.100
the Natal Sharks
Board, and poachers.

00:21:55.566 --> 00:21:57.566
Just talking about South Africa,

00:21:57.566 --> 00:21:59.466
who's enemy number one
out of those three?

00:21:59.766 --> 00:22:01.966
- Out of those three,
Natal Sharks Board.

00:22:01.966 --> 00:22:05.833
They've got the
biggest killing system

00:22:05.833 --> 00:22:08.633
around the coastline, right in
the animals migration route.

00:22:08.633 --> 00:22:10.800
It's a gill net system
with baited hooks.

00:22:10.800 --> 00:22:15.633
It is a migration route, that
tagging has proven already.

00:22:15.633 --> 00:22:18.033
- [Interviewer] How long
ago did we figure that out?

00:22:18.033 --> 00:22:21.166
- [Michael] That would
have been in about 2001.

00:22:22.666 --> 00:22:24.500
- I think in the case of
the Natal Sharks Board

00:22:24.500 --> 00:22:26.400
what firstly needs to be
considered is the fact

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:28.500
that most great
white sharks, in fact

00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:33.100
the vast bulk of the population
live on the Cape coast.

00:22:33.366 --> 00:22:35.866
Along the Cape coast, we
do not have shark nets,

00:22:35.866 --> 00:22:39.633
and yet we see on average
less than one fatality a year.

00:22:39.633 --> 00:22:41.400
The Natal Sharks
Board maintains nets

00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.633
around a stretch of
coastline that's a few

00:22:43.633 --> 00:22:46.333
hundred kilometers long and
has a devastating effect

00:22:46.333 --> 00:22:49.400
on the local marine
fauna in those areas.

00:22:50.033 --> 00:22:53.933
In terms of why we
need the shark nets,

00:22:53.933 --> 00:22:56.700
I think that most
serious water users

00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.733
are strongly against
the shark nets.

00:22:59.733 --> 00:23:01.200
In terms of the
damage they're doing

00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:02.566
to the eco-system.

00:23:02.566 --> 00:23:05.100
They kill between 11 and
60 great white sharks

00:23:05.100 --> 00:23:07.366
every single year,
as well as thousands

00:23:07.366 --> 00:23:10.366
of other sharks of
numerous species.

00:23:10.366 --> 00:23:12.500
And, in today's day
and age, I think

00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:16.066
the Natal Sharks Board
exists on a few peoples' fear

00:23:16.066 --> 00:23:18.833
rather than rational
decision making

00:23:18.833 --> 00:23:21.600
based on hard statistics
as to what danger

00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:23.500
sharks actually pose to us.

00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:25.900
There are many alternatives
for people to use the water

00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:29.200
and many recreational pursuits
that wouldn't endanger them.

00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:30.966
And ultimately, at
the end of the day,

00:23:30.966 --> 00:23:33.566
we as humans use the
water to a large extent

00:23:33.566 --> 00:23:36.700
purely for recreational
uses, whereas sharks

00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:40.633
have got no other option other
than to swim where they do.

00:23:41.300 --> 00:23:43.066
- [Interviewer] I
keep hearing about

00:23:43.066 --> 00:23:46.666
the successful Queensland
drum line method.

00:23:47.066 --> 00:23:50.800
- So, a little bit
of smoke-and-mirrors
there, I think.

00:23:50.800 --> 00:23:53.400
One of the main challenges,
when you actually look

00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:57.466
at the Queensland data, what
we see is that drum lines,

00:23:57.466 --> 00:24:00.566
83% of the drum lines,
are in locations

00:24:00.566 --> 00:24:02.733
where there has never
been a fatality.

00:24:02.733 --> 00:24:06.400
So if we say that we
haven't had any fatalities

00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.733
since the drum line
program came in,

00:24:08.733 --> 00:24:10.733
well you didn't have
any in those locations

00:24:10.733 --> 00:24:12.433
before the drum
lines came in either.

00:24:12.433 --> 00:24:14.100
So it's a bit hard to suggest

00:24:14.100 --> 00:24:16.300
that they've been
effective in reducing that.

00:24:16.300 --> 00:24:18.033
- I read an article
you wrote about this,

00:24:18.033 --> 00:24:20.233
and I believe 1929?

00:24:20.233 --> 00:24:22.833
- Yes, so in one
particular location,

00:24:22.833 --> 00:24:25.066
Magnetic Island, there's
40 drum lines there.

00:24:25.066 --> 00:24:27.966
they kill a 100 sharks
a year, and it is true

00:24:27.966 --> 00:24:29.766
that there's never
been a fatality

00:24:29.766 --> 00:24:31.600
since the drum lines
came in, but previous

00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:33.466
to the drum lines there
had only been one,

00:24:33.466 --> 00:24:35.666
as you say, in 1929.

00:24:35.666 --> 00:24:37.666
- [Interviewer]
So, if, let's say

00:24:37.666 --> 00:24:39.233
that I was pushing
for this cull,

00:24:39.233 --> 00:24:40.866
and I wanted to present
it to the public,

00:24:40.866 --> 00:24:44.866
I could say that the fatalities
have been reduced by 100%,

00:24:44.866 --> 00:24:46.600
but that's actually just--

00:24:46.600 --> 00:24:48.066
- [Jessica] One to zero.

00:24:48.066 --> 00:24:49.166
- [Interviewer] One to zero.
- [Jessica] Yep.

00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:04.200
( wind and jazz music)

00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:14.033
- Did you know that if
blues music is playing

00:25:14.033 --> 00:25:17.300
while you go surfing,
there's a 99.9% chance

00:25:17.300 --> 00:25:19.733
that you will not be
bitten by a shark?

00:25:19.733 --> 00:25:22.200
That's exactly the same
odds as it already is,

00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.233
but if it makes you
feel better, go with it.

00:25:24.233 --> 00:25:26.000
Or, if you prefer, go out and

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.466
indiscriminately kill
innocent animals.

00:25:29.433 --> 00:25:31.100
- [Interviewer] Sir, can
I bug you for a second?

00:25:31.100 --> 00:25:32.333
- [Man] Sure.

00:25:32.333 --> 00:25:33.533
- Alright, I just got
back from Australia

00:25:33.533 --> 00:25:35.366
where they're attempting
to kill sharks

00:25:35.366 --> 00:25:39.966
to improve public safety,
and I have a quick quiz.

00:25:40.800 --> 00:25:43.100
Which one would
make you feel safer?

00:25:43.100 --> 00:25:47.133
Hooks with bait on them
to attract the sharks

00:25:47.466 --> 00:25:52.466
or nets that have three
meters above, below them,

00:25:52.966 --> 00:25:55.800
and hundreds of
meters between them?

00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:58.000
- [Surfer] What do you mean
three meters above and below?

00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.333
- [Interviewer] Meaning
that there are gaps

00:25:59.333 --> 00:26:02.066
above, below, and on
the sides of the nets.

00:26:02.066 --> 00:26:05.166
- Well, I definitely
wouldn't want hooks with

00:26:05.166 --> 00:26:07.533
meat, dead meat
on them around me.

00:26:07.533 --> 00:26:10.033
- Neither, I think they
should leave the sharks alone.

00:26:10.033 --> 00:26:11.666
- Neither sounds good to me.

00:26:11.666 --> 00:26:12.900
- Well, I don't
think any of them

00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:14.800
are gonna really work that well.

00:26:14.800 --> 00:26:16.333
- I don't think those
nets would do anything,

00:26:16.333 --> 00:26:18.200
except for maybe I'd
get caught in them.

00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:19.566
(bell dings)

00:26:19.566 --> 00:26:21.400
- [Interviewer] People
have gotten caught on them.

00:26:21.766 --> 00:26:23.566
- [Surfer] So yeah, alright.

00:26:23.566 --> 00:26:25.933
I don't think we need
to mitigate our sharks.

00:26:25.933 --> 00:26:28.033
- [Interviewer] What if one
of your mates was killed?

00:26:28.366 --> 00:26:30.133
- I mean, that would suck.

00:26:30.133 --> 00:26:31.800
- [Interviewer] Well,
there are shark fatalities

00:26:31.800 --> 00:26:33.500
in California, why,

00:26:34.533 --> 00:26:37.366
how do you come to
that conclusion?

00:26:38.733 --> 00:26:41.333
- [Surfer] I mean there's
fatalities on El Capitan,

00:26:41.333 --> 00:26:43.100
people still climb it.

00:26:43.100 --> 00:26:46.466
There's fatalities
sailing on the ocean

00:26:46.466 --> 00:26:48.533
and on the bay, but
we still sail there.

00:26:48.533 --> 00:26:51.000
- [Interviewer] Do
you value shark life

00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:52.200
over human life?

00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:53.433
- No.

00:26:53.433 --> 00:26:55.366
- [Interviewer] So then
how can you say this?

00:26:55.366 --> 00:26:57.800
- Well, I mean, you
know, if a shark

00:26:57.800 --> 00:27:00.300
comes breaking into my
house, I'll shoot it.

00:27:00.300 --> 00:27:02.100
But, when we're out there,
we're in their home.

00:27:02.100 --> 00:27:06.166
- I think sharks should
be able to live in peace

00:27:06.166 --> 00:27:08.600
in the ocean and not be harmed.

00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:10.900
- So I think it just
comes with the territory.

00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:12.100
- [Interviewer] It doesn't
make you feel better

00:27:12.100 --> 00:27:13.333
just to kill somethin'?

00:27:13.333 --> 00:27:17.300
- (laughing) No, I'm
trying to keep myself

00:27:17.300 --> 00:27:18.733
from getting killed out there.

00:27:18.733 --> 00:27:20.733
The water's, I mean
I'm gonna drown.

00:27:20.733 --> 00:27:22.666
That's the most likely
scenario (bell dings)

00:27:22.666 --> 00:27:24.766
for dying in water,
that's what I worry about.

00:27:24.766 --> 00:27:26.233
- [Interviewer] You are
correct, statistically

00:27:26.233 --> 00:27:28.200
that is your biggest
problem by far.

00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:29.733
Thank you.
- [Surfer] Yeah.

00:27:29.733 --> 00:27:33.800
(ominous hum)

00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:36.033
- The government has
taken this measure

00:27:36.033 --> 00:27:37.666
after long consideration.

00:27:37.666 --> 00:27:39.966
It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction.

00:27:39.966 --> 00:27:41.866
We've been looking at
this for some time.

00:27:41.866 --> 00:27:43.966
- Obviously the
government's very, very keen

00:27:43.966 --> 00:27:46.566
to make sure that these
sharks are treated humanely,

00:27:46.566 --> 00:27:48.166
if they're gonna be destroyed.

00:27:48.166 --> 00:27:51.000
And that the best
practice is maintained.

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.333
- This doesn't look
that humane to me.

00:27:53.333 --> 00:27:55.733
Are there better
methods out there

00:27:55.733 --> 00:27:57.866
that could have been used?

00:27:57.866 --> 00:28:01.633
- So there are ways of
capturing sharks on drum lines

00:28:01.633 --> 00:28:05.033
that don't result in all
this damage to the animals

00:28:05.033 --> 00:28:07.200
and their subsequent death.

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.200
So, in Brazil for instance,
they capture animals

00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:14.566
on drum lines and what's
key is using smaller hooks

00:28:14.566 --> 00:28:17.333
so you don't get as much
damage to the animal.

00:28:17.333 --> 00:28:20.233
You need to have long
tethers on the drum lines

00:28:20.233 --> 00:28:22.366
so that the animal,
when hooked, can swim

00:28:22.366 --> 00:28:26.066
in large circles and maintain
its ability to breathe

00:28:26.066 --> 00:28:28.100
basically, and
doesn't suffocate.

00:28:28.100 --> 00:28:31.133
And, most importantly, you
need to check the drum lines

00:28:31.133 --> 00:28:34.300
very regularly and set them
for only short periods.

00:28:34.633 --> 00:28:36.133
So one of the things
that's been telling

00:28:36.133 --> 00:28:38.566
is that a lot of the
dead sharks are the ones

00:28:38.566 --> 00:28:40.233
that are found first
thing in the morning

00:28:40.233 --> 00:28:41.633
and that's because they've
probably been hanging

00:28:41.633 --> 00:28:44.266
on the drum line all night long.

00:28:45.366 --> 00:28:50.366
(splashing)

00:28:53.266 --> 00:28:55.333
- [Woman] Oh, is
that a hammerhead?

00:28:55.333 --> 00:28:57.033
- [Woman] What is (beeping),

00:28:58.733 --> 00:29:00.766
- [Man] It's a
half a hammerhead.

00:29:06.800 --> 00:29:10.833
(wind blowing and
water splashing)

00:29:10.833 --> 00:29:13.466
- How'd you like to hang
on that for 12 hours?

00:29:16.833 --> 00:29:18.700
- These are
ram-ventilating sharks,

00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:20.400
meaning that they
have to force water

00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.333
through their gills by
swimming constantly.

00:29:23.333 --> 00:29:25.733
With that short of a
distance to maneuver,

00:29:25.733 --> 00:29:27.633
they're just fighting.

00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:33.233
Eventually anything
gets exhausted.

00:29:37.666 --> 00:29:39.900
- [Voiceover] The requirement
to monitor the drum lines

00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:43.533
12 hours a day is only one
of many of the breaches

00:29:43.533 --> 00:29:47.333
of the exemption that
were simply brushed aside.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.233
See that boat in the background?

00:29:52.233 --> 00:29:54.533
That's a shark cull
contractor's boat.

00:29:54.533 --> 00:29:58.933
And that's where it sat
most of the day, each day,

00:29:59.300 --> 00:30:02.100
earning nearly $6,000 a day.

00:30:03.566 --> 00:30:06.500
Which hour of those 12
hours did this shark

00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:09.733
break its own jaw in a
desperate attempt to escape?

00:30:11.633 --> 00:30:13.666
Another condition
of the exemption

00:30:13.666 --> 00:30:16.500
states that all sharks
under three meters

00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:18.500
were to be released alive.

00:30:18.500 --> 00:30:21.000
Now imagine that your execution

00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:23.833
depends upon whether
or not you grew over

00:30:23.833 --> 00:30:28.000
a size that a politician
decided was frightening,

00:30:29.533 --> 00:30:32.666
if you're lucky enough
to be measured at all.

00:30:33.800 --> 00:30:36.200
- [Woman] They're still
not measuring them, hey.

00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:38.933
- [Man] How does
it take that bait?

00:30:38.933 --> 00:30:43.000
- [Woman] Well, he's
just getting it ready
to shoot anyway.

00:30:44.866 --> 00:30:46.633
(gunshot)
(gasp)

00:30:48.133 --> 00:30:51.166
- How did you determine
whether to go with the 22

00:30:51.166 --> 00:30:52.400
or the shotgun?

00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:54.500
- Well, they're the
weapons I had, you know.

00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:56.866
I already had a .22 rifle.

00:30:56.866 --> 00:31:01.566
(splashing water)

00:31:01.566 --> 00:31:03.833
- [Man] So I'm guessing we
were around half-an-hour

00:31:03.833 --> 00:31:05.333
watching them.

00:31:05.333 --> 00:31:07.300
That's not how long the
shark was on the line.

00:31:07.300 --> 00:31:09.633
That's how long fisheries
was pulled up to it

00:31:09.633 --> 00:31:12.266
and attempting to,
I couldn't even tell

00:31:12.266 --> 00:31:13.966
what they were doing.

00:31:13.966 --> 00:31:17.333
Meantime, you see the
shark hooked on its mouth.

00:31:17.333 --> 00:31:18.833
And I think the worst
part was seeing it

00:31:18.833 --> 00:31:23.266
trying to open and close its
mouth to desperately breathe,

00:31:24.033 --> 00:31:26.633
and of course it can't do that.

00:31:26.633 --> 00:31:29.333
It's further damaging itself
because it's lower jaw

00:31:29.333 --> 00:31:32.866
was suspending it
by a massive hook.

00:31:34.233 --> 00:31:36.300
And we were all geared
up and ready to try

00:31:36.300 --> 00:31:38.800
and assist the shark, because
we didn't see them measure it.

00:31:39.733 --> 00:31:42.933
Therefore we thought it was OK,

00:31:42.933 --> 00:31:44.833
it was going to be released.

00:31:44.833 --> 00:31:46.833
Next thing we know,
we're asked to back away.

00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:50.333
They shoot it, and
without measuring it,

00:31:51.966 --> 00:31:54.566
drag it on board,
bleeding profusely.

00:31:54.566 --> 00:31:57.333
And at that point they get
out their measuring tool.

00:31:57.933 --> 00:32:00.733
And then they tried to
prevent us from measuring it

00:32:00.733 --> 00:32:02.133
by taking it out
here in the deep

00:32:02.133 --> 00:32:03.433
and dumping the body.

00:32:04.466 --> 00:32:06.666
It would have just
been number 300

00:32:06.666 --> 00:32:09.466
in the number of breaches
in this exemption anyway.

00:32:09.466 --> 00:32:11.000
I'm not even sure if
it would have mattered

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:14.366
if we had proven
that the animal was

00:32:14.366 --> 00:32:16.366
under three meters.

00:32:16.733 --> 00:32:20.166
(gunshots)

00:32:21.233 --> 00:32:24.433
Yeah, it's pretty upsetting
when you see something

00:32:24.433 --> 00:32:28.166
that has life in it
suddenly stop struggling.

00:32:28.633 --> 00:32:29.766
(gunshot)

00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:33.800
And there's no
purpose behind it.

00:32:40.533 --> 00:32:42.500
- Whether the shark lived
or not, it's hard to say,

00:32:42.500 --> 00:32:44.033
but at least You
had the opportunity

00:32:44.033 --> 00:32:45.800
to try and help one.
- Yes.

00:32:45.800 --> 00:32:47.166
- Can you tell me
about that day?

00:32:47.166 --> 00:32:50.200
- I mean amazing day
in the standpoint

00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.600
of actually being able
to help save a shark.

00:32:53.133 --> 00:32:57.400
Horrible day and horrible
experience going down there

00:32:57.400 --> 00:32:59.466
to actually see
them culling sharks,

00:32:59.466 --> 00:33:01.633
and kind of that
helpless feeling of,

00:33:01.633 --> 00:33:03.500
"Oh, what can I do?"

00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:05.166
You can talk to people all day,

00:33:05.166 --> 00:33:08.100
but at the end of it,
it's law that's in place

00:33:08.100 --> 00:33:11.300
that needs to be revoked
for you to go in there

00:33:11.300 --> 00:33:12.766
and make a difference.

00:33:12.766 --> 00:33:14.100
The whole thing should be
abolished, but actuallly--

00:33:14.100 --> 00:33:15.300
- And you're really
familiar with tiger sharks.

00:33:15.300 --> 00:33:16.800
Like you swim with
them in Hawaii.

00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:19.000
- It's heart-breaking
to see this little tiny

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.533
juvenile shark that had a hook

00:33:21.533 --> 00:33:22.700
going all the way
through its mouth

00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:24.133
all the way out
through its head.

00:33:24.133 --> 00:33:27.266
It was improperly irrigated,
so it had essentially

00:33:27.266 --> 00:33:29.033
been struggling for
its life for probably

00:33:29.033 --> 00:33:32.100
at least 12 hours, then
pulled up on the boat,

00:33:32.100 --> 00:33:33.500
not properly irrigated,
so it's basically

00:33:33.500 --> 00:33:35.966
kind of suffocating,
holding its breath.

00:33:35.966 --> 00:33:37.300
The animal is
completely exhausted.

00:33:37.300 --> 00:33:39.100
They tag it with a cattle tag,

00:33:39.100 --> 00:33:40.666
and they release it back alive.

00:33:40.666 --> 00:33:42.633
And what happens is the
animal is too exhausted

00:33:42.633 --> 00:33:43.666
to actually swim.

00:33:43.666 --> 00:33:45.466
The animals have
to keep swimming

00:33:45.466 --> 00:33:46.700
to be able to breathe,
so it just starts

00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:48.300
to sink down to the bottom.

00:33:48.300 --> 00:33:50.166
So we swam in
there, picked it up,

00:33:50.166 --> 00:33:52.566
and we took turns, two
people at a time swimming it.

00:33:52.566 --> 00:33:54.966
And I swam it for over
an hour-and-a-half

00:33:57.066 --> 00:33:59.533
and during that time period,
the first couple minutes

00:33:59.533 --> 00:34:01.833
well it would just try and
just barely open and close

00:34:01.833 --> 00:34:04.733
its mouth, and it was
basically pumping blood

00:34:04.733 --> 00:34:06.633
out of that wound, and it was
just completely exhausted.

00:34:06.633 --> 00:34:11.633
(ominous hum)

00:34:41.100 --> 00:34:43.533
- [Voiceover] New Zealand
is an example of a location

00:34:43.533 --> 00:34:47.866
that acknowledged that shark
mitigation was not working.

00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:51.466
- And the nets went in, but
it was pointed out to council

00:34:51.466 --> 00:34:55.066
that they (a) didn't cover
the beach, didn't work,

00:34:55.066 --> 00:34:59.833
and (b) were not catching
dangerous sharks,

00:34:59.833 --> 00:35:03.766
and (c) were killing other
animals, sharks, dolphins,

00:35:03.766 --> 00:35:06.366
possibly seals,
that were harmless.

00:35:06.366 --> 00:35:11.000
- In Hawaii from 1959
to 1976, they set

00:35:11.633 --> 00:35:14.600
long lines to
target tiger sharks.

00:35:15.166 --> 00:35:19.733
Over 4,500 tiger sharks were
killed over that 17 year period

00:35:19.733 --> 00:35:22.733
yet there was absolutely
no change in fatality rate.

00:35:23.266 --> 00:35:25.700
So killing sharks
didn't save people.

00:35:25.700 --> 00:35:27.566
- [Interviewer] I just finished
an interview with the mayor

00:35:27.566 --> 00:35:29.866
talking about the
decision to pull the nets

00:35:29.866 --> 00:35:31.566
out of the water.

00:35:31.566 --> 00:35:34.600
How do you guys feel about
no longer having the shark

00:35:34.600 --> 00:35:36.833
nets here on the beach.

00:35:36.833 --> 00:35:38.833
- Oh, it doesn't
phase me too much.

00:35:38.833 --> 00:35:40.666
Always felt that
when they were there

00:35:40.666 --> 00:35:42.266
they were halfway
a waste of time.

00:35:42.266 --> 00:35:44.866
It was just like a peace
of mind type of thing

00:35:44.866 --> 00:35:46.100
for the public.

00:35:46.100 --> 00:35:49.300
- I mean we used to
joke about them creating

00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:51.800
a shark repellent chewing
gum, because 99.9%

00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.600
of people who chew shark
repellent chewing gum

00:35:53.600 --> 00:35:55.166
won't get attacked by a shark.

00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:58.033
Nothing to do with
the gum, but that's,

00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.366
it's a matter of statistics.

00:36:01.033 --> 00:36:03.466
- So this is a spot
you guys go to.

00:36:03.466 --> 00:36:05.366
Are you going to
go surfing today?

00:36:05.366 --> 00:36:07.966
- Maybe not today because
of all this shark talk

00:36:07.966 --> 00:36:10.333
that's going on (laughing).

00:36:10.333 --> 00:36:12.366
- What about you,
are you going anyway?

00:36:12.366 --> 00:36:13.666
- Naw, I probably
don't want to now.

00:36:13.666 --> 00:36:15.100
- [Voiceover] Their day
of surfing was brought

00:36:15.100 --> 00:36:18.033
to a premature end just
from talking about sharks.

00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:20.866
While that's funny
in some respects,

00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:22.833
it's also sad,

00:36:23.166 --> 00:36:26.500
because it points out that
this war against sharks

00:36:26.500 --> 00:36:30.200
is really about fear
and not about safety.

00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:32.200
And while there's nothing wrong

00:36:32.200 --> 00:36:34.000
with wanting to increase safety,

00:36:34.600 --> 00:36:38.433
there's no evidence that it
has actually saved lives.

00:36:39.100 --> 00:36:41.000
But there's
overwhelming evidence

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:42.800
that it's taking lives.

00:36:45.966 --> 00:36:48.333
- I think not a lot of
people actually know

00:36:48.333 --> 00:36:50.800
that it's going on in
their own backyard.

00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.966
It's very hidden, we don't
really see the animals

00:36:54.966 --> 00:36:57.500
that have been killed
as a result of the nets,

00:36:57.766 --> 00:37:00.366
so we're trying to
make that public.

00:37:00.366 --> 00:37:02.666
It was brought in in
1937, so basically,

00:37:02.666 --> 00:37:06.266
back in those days people
didn't know a lot about it.

00:37:06.266 --> 00:37:08.700
It was originally brought
in because the Queen

00:37:08.700 --> 00:37:10.933
was coming out for a
visit, and they felt that

00:37:10.933 --> 00:37:14.633
in terms of PR, it would be
bad if the Queen was visiting

00:37:14.633 --> 00:37:16.600
while someone was
bitten by a shark.

00:37:16.966 --> 00:37:20.200
So that's why the nets
went in in the first place.

00:37:20.200 --> 00:37:24.533
And we have 99 different
species that have been impacted.

00:37:24.533 --> 00:37:25.666
- 99?
- Yeah.

00:37:25.666 --> 00:37:27.566
- And does that
include any of the ones

00:37:27.566 --> 00:37:30.266
that people typically
tend to care about more?

00:37:30.266 --> 00:37:33.800
- Yes, so things like
dugongs, turtles,

00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:36.733
which are all endangered,
we have dolphins.

00:37:36.733 --> 00:37:39.233
Just this season
in New South Wales

00:37:39.233 --> 00:37:41.233
we had a baby humpback
calf that died

00:37:41.233 --> 00:37:43.233
as a result of the nets.

00:37:43.233 --> 00:37:45.666
Yeah, so lots of animals that
are not considered dangerous

00:37:45.666 --> 00:37:48.066
to people are getting
impacted by these.

00:37:48.066 --> 00:37:53.066
(somber music)

00:38:25.300 --> 00:38:28.100
- [Voiceover] When a
campaign lacks support

00:38:28.100 --> 00:38:32.100
from science,
history, statistics,

00:38:32.966 --> 00:38:35.333
and even the local population,

00:38:35.833 --> 00:38:38.966
one is forced to look
at other explanations.

00:38:39.366 --> 00:38:41.766
- I mean we're
talking about people

00:38:41.766 --> 00:38:45.100
who are suggesting a
policy that cannot work.

00:38:45.100 --> 00:38:48.766
This is about addressing
the perception of risk.

00:38:48.766 --> 00:38:51.066
It's not about actual
risk reduction.

00:38:51.500 --> 00:38:53.033
So if they believe

00:38:53.033 --> 00:38:55.533
that doing drum lines

00:38:55.533 --> 00:38:57.566
is gonna lower the
perception of risk,

00:38:57.566 --> 00:38:59.066
then they're gonna do it.

00:38:59.066 --> 00:39:01.833
And that risk is not the
risk that someone has

00:39:01.833 --> 00:39:03.333
going into the water.

00:39:03.333 --> 00:39:05.366
It's the risk that they
have as a politician

00:39:05.366 --> 00:39:07.333
that they might
not be re-elected.

00:39:07.333 --> 00:39:09.700
- South Africa's
Natal Sharks Board,

00:39:09.700 --> 00:39:11.600
I think it's still in
place because it employs

00:39:11.600 --> 00:39:16.066
well in excess of 100 people,
and a lot of those people

00:39:16.066 --> 00:39:18.166
scientists, and
managers, and directors,

00:39:18.166 --> 00:39:19.833
are getting a decent salary.

00:39:19.833 --> 00:39:22.533
So the last thing they want
to do is lose their jobs.

00:39:22.533 --> 00:39:25.966
Government also give them a
substantial amount of money

00:39:25.966 --> 00:39:27.466
over the years, several
million dollars,

00:39:27.466 --> 00:39:29.133
to fund what they do.

00:39:29.133 --> 00:39:30.700
So there are financial reasons
for a lot of those people

00:39:30.700 --> 00:39:33.600
keeping the Natal
Sharks Board there.

00:39:33.600 --> 00:39:35.966
- So, in a sense, the
existence of those nets

00:39:35.966 --> 00:39:38.866
have created a bit of
a financial eco-system.

00:39:38.866 --> 00:39:40.900
And if those nets
were to be removed,

00:39:40.900 --> 00:39:43.300
then that would cause the
financial eco-system to collapse

00:39:43.300 --> 00:39:45.900
and those people
benefitting from that

00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:48.466
would then be out of jobs.

00:39:48.466 --> 00:39:50.866
- Absolutely, I think
the financial benefits

00:39:50.866 --> 00:39:55.700
to a handful of people
are a strong motivation

00:39:55.700 --> 00:39:57.700
for keeping those nets in place.

00:39:58.433 --> 00:40:00.433
- Could maybe understand
what they're doing

00:40:00.433 --> 00:40:03.733
in Western Australia where
the sharks seem to be

00:40:03.733 --> 00:40:06.933
killing a person every
second week, or once a month,

00:40:06.933 --> 00:40:10.100
or you know slightly sort of

00:40:10.100 --> 00:40:11.733
feeding off people
over the years.

00:40:11.733 --> 00:40:16.733
(""Jaws"-like throbbing)

00:40:17.333 --> 00:40:19.000
- Where do you get
your information

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:21.100
about the numbers over there?

00:40:21.100 --> 00:40:23.433
- Just from what I see
on the news really.

00:40:23.433 --> 00:40:27.066
Just from what the
news gives you and--

00:40:27.066 --> 00:40:28.500
- Do you typically
trust the news?

00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:29.833
- No, not typically, no.
(laughing)

00:40:29.833 --> 00:40:32.466
- I don't support the cull.

00:40:32.466 --> 00:40:34.600
I don't think it's an
effective strategy.

00:40:34.600 --> 00:40:36.200
I think it's a
reactionary response

00:40:36.200 --> 00:40:38.600
to just say we did something.

00:40:38.933 --> 00:40:41.766
- It's been less about
real human safety

00:40:41.766 --> 00:40:44.433
and probably more about
making people feel better

00:40:44.433 --> 00:40:45.966
that something's being done.

00:40:45.966 --> 00:40:47.266
- We're talking here
about political survival.

00:40:47.266 --> 00:40:49.433
We're not talking
about beach safety.

00:40:49.433 --> 00:40:53.333
And so, if I face a risk,
in terms of being blamed

00:40:53.333 --> 00:40:56.700
for a shark bite or
something, then I'm gonna say,

00:40:56.700 --> 00:40:58.433
"Well look, we tried
everything we could.

00:40:58.433 --> 00:40:59.900
"We put in the drum lines.

00:40:59.900 --> 00:41:01.566
"We catched and
killed the sharks."

00:41:01.566 --> 00:41:03.800
And killing sharks
is good politics,

00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:07.300
so you end up having these
positions that are taken

00:41:07.300 --> 00:41:10.900
that are devoid of reality
and devoid of safety.

00:41:10.900 --> 00:41:14.533
These are simply not shark
bite prevention methods.

00:41:14.533 --> 00:41:17.066
This is about political
risk mitigation.

00:41:17.066 --> 00:41:19.533
- Don't forget maybe it
has a raw head to it,

00:41:19.533 --> 00:41:21.166
so maybe it's been
sensationalized.

00:41:21.166 --> 00:41:23.333
When there is an attack,
it is sensationalized.

00:41:24.133 --> 00:41:27.100
And they bring out all
the other horrors of it.

00:41:27.100 --> 00:41:28.833
There's a sense of fear.

00:41:28.833 --> 00:41:31.266
So there's a combination
of a whole lot of things.

00:41:31.266 --> 00:41:35.733
Fear sells in the media,
and the government

00:41:36.066 --> 00:41:38.633
has been playing on that,

00:41:38.633 --> 00:41:41.433
and then saying, "Look,
we're looking after you.

00:41:41.433 --> 00:41:43.733
"And we're making it safe."

00:41:43.733 --> 00:41:45.366
- [Interviewer] The
politicians are providing

00:41:45.366 --> 00:41:49.300
a placebo effect of safety
at the cost of sharks' lives.

00:41:49.300 --> 00:41:51.266
- I think it's worse than that.

00:41:51.266 --> 00:41:52.733
A placebo effect
doesn't kill you

00:41:52.733 --> 00:41:54.766
or cause you harm.

00:41:54.766 --> 00:41:57.133
These measures actively
cause the public harm

00:41:57.133 --> 00:42:00.333
because when you lie to someone
as a basis for your policy,

00:42:00.333 --> 00:42:03.433
and that lie is
allowed to fester,

00:42:03.433 --> 00:42:04.833
it undermines the
democratic system.

00:42:04.833 --> 00:42:07.733
It undermines public education.

00:42:07.733 --> 00:42:11.233
It undermines public trust,
and you're dealing with

00:42:11.233 --> 00:42:13.466
a set of policies, and
a set of narratives

00:42:13.466 --> 00:42:15.833
that simply have no
basis in reality.

00:42:16.300 --> 00:42:21.300
- And it's very, very
easy to keep the idea of

00:42:23.100 --> 00:42:26.900
the fear that people
have of sharks going.

00:42:26.900 --> 00:42:29.200
It's as simple as me
going out to a whole lot

00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:31.400
of ignorant people
and saying to them,

00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:33.300
"You know what, you
take those nets away,

00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:34.833
"my gosh the sharks are
gonna come runnin' in there

00:42:34.833 --> 00:42:36.633
"and it's gonna be a frenzy.

00:42:36.633 --> 00:42:38.300
"It's gonna be a bloodbath."

00:42:38.866 --> 00:42:42.133
And the irrational fear
that that creates continues

00:42:42.133 --> 00:42:45.433
the myth and perpetuates
the need to have these nets,

00:42:45.433 --> 00:42:48.200
which certainly,
based on hard facts,

00:42:48.200 --> 00:42:49.466
don't need to be there.

00:42:49.466 --> 00:42:53.266
And we're destroying
an unbelievable wealth

00:42:54.166 --> 00:42:57.166
of our marine fauna
in terms of sharks,

00:42:57.166 --> 00:43:00.066
by having these antiquated
systems in place.

00:43:00.066 --> 00:43:02.733
- And the way that it's being
publicized and dramatized,

00:43:02.733 --> 00:43:06.066
is just absolutely
insanity, you know.

00:43:06.066 --> 00:43:09.300
Sharks lurking off our coasts,
monsters off our coasts,

00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:11.300
these things live
in our imagination.

00:43:11.300 --> 00:43:13.833
- Shark bites may
not be governable,

00:43:13.833 --> 00:43:17.100
but they are blamable, and
so you see a lot of activity

00:43:17.100 --> 00:43:19.366
that happens on
the basis of that.

00:43:19.366 --> 00:43:21.800
- [Interviewer] A lot
of things kill people,

00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:23.800
but we don't have control
over a lot of those.

00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:27.433
You're not able to blame
something and go after it.

00:43:27.433 --> 00:43:29.366
- Well, that's it, once you
give it, once you change it

00:43:29.366 --> 00:43:32.733
from a fish to a movie
monster, you make it blamable.

00:43:32.733 --> 00:43:35.133
If a fish swam by and
hit the boat, well

00:43:35.133 --> 00:43:38.533
that's mother nature; if a shark
swam by, stalked your boat,

00:43:38.533 --> 00:43:41.200
then we're really talking
about blaming a creature.

00:43:41.200 --> 00:43:42.700
And we can punish it.

00:43:43.233 --> 00:43:46.500
- And generally politicians,
like Colin Barnett I suspect,

00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:48.566
is running for a higher office.

00:43:48.566 --> 00:43:50.133
He's a PM of West
Australia, Prime Minister.

00:43:50.133 --> 00:43:53.333
He's running out a term,
he probably has his sites

00:43:53.333 --> 00:43:56.300
for a greater office that
means get a lot of press.

00:43:56.300 --> 00:43:58.900
Whether it's negative
press or positive press,

00:43:58.900 --> 00:44:00.933
it's good press
for a politician.

00:44:01.600 --> 00:44:04.233
- Sharks represent, I think,

00:44:04.233 --> 00:44:08.200
deep, basic fears that we have.

00:44:08.933 --> 00:44:12.400
And a lot of these
fears are kind of

00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:15.900
actually promoted by government
because a fearful population

00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:18.200
actually is much
easier to control

00:44:18.200 --> 00:44:21.800
than a population of people
who believe themselves

00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:23.866
to be sovereign citizens
and don't really have

00:44:23.866 --> 00:44:25.166
too many insecurities.

00:44:25.466 --> 00:44:28.366
- Fear and loathing
seems to sell stories,

00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:32.200
and as long as fear and
loathing are perpetuated,

00:44:32.200 --> 00:44:35.666
then papers get sold,
stories are prolonged.

00:44:36.500 --> 00:44:40.233
- If you get three kids killed
in a motor car rollover,

00:44:40.233 --> 00:44:43.366
it might make the
second or third page.

00:44:43.366 --> 00:44:45.333
If you get one shark attack,

00:44:45.333 --> 00:44:47.400
it's in the paper
for three days.

00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:48.566
And headlines.

00:44:49.100 --> 00:44:52.233
- They are these highly
emotional events,

00:44:52.233 --> 00:44:54.866
great opportunities
for politicians,

00:44:54.866 --> 00:44:59.666
and holding them accountable
for the actions they take

00:44:59.666 --> 00:45:02.833
is really something
that needs to happen

00:45:02.833 --> 00:45:05.100
sort of across the board.

00:45:05.100 --> 00:45:09.066
So other elites need to call
them out, because the public,

00:45:09.066 --> 00:45:12.266
when you have a scary incident,
the public aren't experts.

00:45:12.266 --> 00:45:16.266
They're not marine biologists,
and in their being faced

00:45:16.266 --> 00:45:19.300
with a difficult situation,
they're looking for direction

00:45:19.300 --> 00:45:20.833
and they're looking for help.

00:45:20.833 --> 00:45:22.233
And I don't blame them.

00:45:22.233 --> 00:45:23.933
What they're not
getting is any help

00:45:23.933 --> 00:45:25.300
from another credible source.

00:45:25.300 --> 00:45:28.266
And so you need
scientists to step up

00:45:28.266 --> 00:45:30.366
and provide real information.

00:45:30.366 --> 00:45:33.500
I mean I would say that it's
important for the public

00:45:33.500 --> 00:45:36.233
to know that shark
control is a sham.

00:45:37.100 --> 00:45:41.466
It is not real science, it
is not real beach safety,

00:45:41.466 --> 00:45:44.433
it is political
theater that is used

00:45:44.433 --> 00:45:48.266
to advance political interests
following human tragedy.

00:45:49.166 --> 00:45:51.333
- The issue should be about

00:45:51.333 --> 00:45:53.800
how our government
makes decisions.

00:45:54.433 --> 00:45:57.800
Whether they have completed
the process appropriately

00:45:58.500 --> 00:46:02.100
and did they release sufficient
detail to the public.

00:46:02.600 --> 00:46:05.500
And how do we go about
balancing population growth,

00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:09.933
lifestyle, safety, and
species protection.

00:46:11.100 --> 00:46:13.966
But on Sunday I knew
that we had sunk

00:46:13.966 --> 00:46:17.666
as low as we could
go with this debate,

00:46:17.666 --> 00:46:20.800
when I was reading
the Sunday paper

00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:23.700
and was appalled to see
a full-page advertisement

00:46:23.700 --> 00:46:27.966
for a carnivorous program,
looked like a Jaws movie poster.

00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.866
As time has past, it
has become more evident

00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:36.566
that the way my son
died, and others,

00:46:37.266 --> 00:46:40.066
is now becoming more
about entertainment value

00:46:40.066 --> 00:46:42.000
than public safety.

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:45.333
(clapping)

00:46:46.933 --> 00:46:49.266
- [Voiceover] So back
to asking questions.

00:46:50.666 --> 00:46:53.100
How long will we
trust politicians

00:46:53.100 --> 00:46:55.733
over science and statistics?

00:46:57.966 --> 00:46:59.700
How long will our
mentality be shaped

00:46:59.700 --> 00:47:01.733
by the irresponsible press,

00:47:01.733 --> 00:47:04.366
rather than
responsible research?

00:47:05.633 --> 00:47:08.933
And how long will we allow
innocent animals to die

00:47:09.700 --> 00:47:12.333
because ignorance is bliss?

00:47:12.666 --> 00:47:17.666
(soft melodic hum)

00:47:24.133 --> 00:47:29.133
(echoing techno music)

00:48:25.066 --> 00:48:26.200
- [Interviewer] Not all of us?

00:48:26.200 --> 00:48:27.366
- [Man on Beach]
Why call it killing,

00:48:27.366 --> 00:48:28.466
why not call it
catching a shark?

00:48:28.466 --> 00:48:30.333
- Because I watched
them kill one.

00:48:30.333 --> 00:48:31.966
I mean when you shoot
something in the head

00:48:31.966 --> 00:48:33.433
it looks different than what
I thought of as fishing.

00:48:33.433 --> 00:48:36.300
- Yeah, it's not a
particularly good way to do it.

00:48:36.300 --> 00:48:38.200
You could cut it's
head off with a knife.

00:48:38.200 --> 00:48:40.966
- Which one would
you guess is easier,

00:48:40.966 --> 00:48:43.400
to kill every
shark in the ocean,

00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:45.733
or set up an alarm system?

00:48:45.733 --> 00:48:47.266
- Set up an alarm system.
- Wrong.

00:48:47.266 --> 00:48:51.466
- I think shark attacks
are far in between.

00:48:51.466 --> 00:48:54.366
I look at it this way,
surfing is something I love

00:48:54.366 --> 00:48:57.733
and if my time's
up, my time's up.

00:48:57.733 --> 00:48:59.133
I want to do it.

00:48:59.133 --> 00:49:00.200
- They could do to
the shark? (beep)

00:49:00.200 --> 00:49:01.566
That's (beep).

00:49:03.500 --> 00:49:05.066
- Have you read any
Carlos Casteneda?

00:49:05.066 --> 00:49:06.466
He's a Californian.

00:49:06.466 --> 00:49:08.033
- Don't make me dumb down
with my own interview.

00:49:08.033 --> 00:49:09.266
(laughing)

00:49:09.266 --> 00:49:10.466
(beep, beep)

00:49:10.466 --> 00:49:12.466
- It's not gonna fly
at a film festival.

00:49:15.466 --> 00:49:17.233
- We kill them to
protect them from dying?

00:49:17.233 --> 00:49:18.600
- Yeah.

00:49:18.600 --> 00:49:21.400
- In case there's any confusion,
Martin is the bag boy.

00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:22.966
(laughing)

00:49:23.266 --> 00:49:28.266
(echoing techno music)