WEBVTT

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(traffic, city noise)

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(horns honking)

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(sirens wailing)

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in the lobby of City Hall.

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And it is only fitting
that the City Hall of New York

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is host of this occasion
because Sol LeWitt spent

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much of his life...

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(audio recording clicking)

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It\'s the 15th of July, 1974,

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it\'s Paul Cummings
talking to Sol LeWitt.

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♪

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♪

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That formula is so unnecessary.

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(inaudible conversation)

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So this is at 3.5,
so this is 1.125 centimeters

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total ratio.

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(indistinct conversation)

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1.5 plus .75.

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- .75.
- Okay.

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(sirens wailing)

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He certainly would never have
wanted the ideas

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to only exist as ideas.

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(sirens grow louder)

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He wanted them to be created.

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He wanted them to be realized,

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even if they were for...
an hour.

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Initially, when he first started
to make this work,

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the world was in
a very different

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theoretical position about art

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and economics and politics.

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And so, those things
had influence on him

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and he wanted to be able
to get his ideas

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across the world.

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And do it in a way
that was practical.

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And so, he started doing
these book pieces

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and he started doing
these wall drawings,

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and they could go anywhere.

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It was,
if you had a fax machine,

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and you had a wall,

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theoretically, you could
get the drawing.

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It didn\'t necessarily mean...

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And certainly,
as the work evolved,

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drawings became considerably
more technically difficult

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and required more skill groups.

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But at the onset,
it was something

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that was an amazing jump from,

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\"Oh, I bought this artwork
and it\'s this thing

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and it\'s in this crate
and it\'s this,\"

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and he\'s saying, \"No, here.

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I\'m gonna fax you
the instructions,

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paint the wall white,

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and use a crayon
and do this.\"

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Or, \"Use a pencil
and do this.\"

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And, you know,
sort of unheard of.

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(high-pitched resonant humming)

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♪

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(speaking foreign language)

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♪

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(traffic noise)

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He believed that art should
be available to everybody.

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And that unique works
should be available

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to everybody.

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So he did books for that reason,

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he did prints for that reason,

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he made $100 drawings...

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never to be sold for over $100,

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which even shortly thereafter,

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even when I was still
at the gallery,

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like, before 1980,
were being sold at auction

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for thousands.

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And I tried to withdraw them
from auctions

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and never was successful,

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or maybe only once or twice.

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Now they sell for
tens of thousands.

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And he stopped doing them
after a while

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because it was
not achieving his purpose.

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So, he also did carpets,

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furniture, posters,

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coasters, and the list goes on.

00:15:03.959 --> 00:15:07.000
(train announcement over PA)

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(train doors beeping)

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He really thought
the Berlage building

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was the most beautiful
museum in the world.

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It was a special place for him.

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(speaking foreign language)

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I really don\'t remember
The Hague particularly.

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I do remember the catalogue.

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And he did a fabulous job.

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It was his first major show.

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He put in a scathing review
against him

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and he used the one quote
from Chester Himes

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from Cotton Comes to Harlem.

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\"Watch your ass,
your head goes with it.\"

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And I think that\'s
the watchword of Sol.

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You wrote something
very nice too in that catalogue.

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I liked Sol.

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So did Carl Andre.

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So did everybody else.

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Sol was not
a friendly human being.

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What he did was he believed
that he was part of the world

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and he dealt with it.

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But he had emotions and feelings
that was...

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He was not a saint.

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He liked the activity
around him.

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You can\'t have a farm
unless you plant seeds.

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So, let\'s say that everything
is really not altruistic.

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But the gesture seems
to go against the grain

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of the contemporary society
we live in.

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But the grain of
the contemporary society

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we live in gives us war,
gives us famines,

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and the grain
of contemporary art

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perhaps alleviates
some of the pain.

00:18:44.918 --> 00:18:52.918
♪

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(speaking foreign language)

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(indistinct talking)

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Ladies and gentlemen,

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the museum closes
at five p.m.

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The museum cafe
will remain open.

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We kindly ask you
to leave the building.

00:24:36.083 --> 00:24:39.083
(speaking foreign language)

00:24:49.626 --> 00:24:52.626
(speaking foreign language)

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I got a letter from Edy de Wilde

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who is the director, saying that

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Edy wanted to do
this exhibition,

00:25:48.375 --> 00:25:49.918
that Sol should refrain
from doing

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other European exhibitions

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while we were planning that.

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To which Sol said \"No.

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I\'m happy to do the show
at the Stedelijk,

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but I will continue to do
whatever I want.\"

00:26:01.584 --> 00:26:04.167
Edy allowed the show
to happen anyway.

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Sol was not his favorite artist,

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he never bought anything
for the collection.

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And even at the opening said,

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\"Well, I didn\'t really
like this work

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and, you know, I don\'t know
what I think about it

00:26:15.209 --> 00:26:19.541
but Alexander
persuaded me to do the show.\"

00:26:19.542 --> 00:26:21.750
Nobody had ever seen
a museum director say that

00:26:21.751 --> 00:26:23.459
at an opening.

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And Sol and I worked together
doing that exhibition.

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We also did a catalogue raisonné

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of the first of the wall
drawings that existed

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up till that point.

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And so, rewrote some
of the titles.

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It was a pivotal
exhibition for Sol

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and some of the assistants
who worked there

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still work with us.

00:26:47.751 --> 00:26:53.000
And Alexander became a lifetime
friend of Sol\'s and mine,

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and it was a very important
and beautiful exhibition.

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(speaking foreign language)

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(indistinct conversation)

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291 and a half.

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I think that\'s enough.

00:29:30.834 --> 00:29:32.166
290... what?

00:29:32.167 --> 00:29:34.000
So when you have...

00:29:34.042 --> 00:29:35.791
No, it says 291 and a half.

00:29:35.792 --> 00:29:37.792
(loud banging)

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Yeah, 316.

00:29:45.501 --> 00:29:46.626
316?

00:29:46.667 --> 00:29:49.374
Yes.

00:29:49.375 --> 00:29:52.541
Okay, now, the program
I have is to...

00:29:52.542 --> 00:29:55.584
The starting point was wrong.

00:29:55.626 --> 00:29:56.958
And the relationship with this

00:29:56.959 --> 00:29:58.167
and the starting point is wrong.

00:29:58.209 --> 00:29:59.374
Mm-hm.

00:29:59.375 --> 00:30:00.958
And the rest of them
is pinned down

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under the wrong point,
so that\'s why basically

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this line is wrong.

00:30:04.834 --> 00:30:05.751
Your whole line?

00:30:05.752 --> 00:30:07.000
- Whole line is wrong.
- Okay.

00:30:07.042 --> 00:30:08.417
(unintelligible)

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So, uh, okay,
we have to start from...

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We have to redo this blue tape.

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And then everything has
to be redone,

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we have to re-tape, all right?

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.792
Unfortunately.

00:30:23.834 --> 00:30:25.834
(loud clattering)

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♪

00:32:07.083 --> 00:32:09.083
(indistinct conversation)

00:33:12.792 --> 00:33:15.792
(speaking foreign language)

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♪

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♪

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♪

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(cell phone ringing)

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(speaking foreign language)

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:58.000
(clanking)

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Okay.

00:40:35.542 --> 00:40:38.542
(banging)

00:40:41.375 --> 00:40:44.375
(laughing)

00:40:46.834 --> 00:40:49.834
(coughing)

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(birds chirping)

00:41:26.792 --> 00:41:29.792
(Italian conversation)

00:41:44.709 --> 00:41:47.709
(speaking Italian)

00:43:27.042 --> 00:43:29.375
(laughing)

00:43:29.417 --> 00:43:32.417
(speaking Italian)

00:45:32.999 --> 00:45:35.999
(plastic crinkling)

00:46:17.501 --> 00:46:20.501
(truck engine revving)

00:46:25.792 --> 00:46:28.792
(birds chirping)

00:46:34.667 --> 00:46:36.667
(gate creaking)

00:46:39.375 --> 00:46:42.998
(panting)

00:46:42.999 --> 00:46:44.999
(speaking Italian)

00:46:47.042 --> 00:46:50.042
(birds chirping)

00:47:05.167 --> 00:47:07.167
(speaking Italian)

00:47:08.709 --> 00:47:11.709
(beeping)

00:47:22.959 --> 00:47:26.209
(buzzing)

00:47:26.250 --> 00:47:29.250
(speaking Italian)

00:47:34.250 --> 00:47:36.250
(panting)

00:47:38.501 --> 00:47:41.501
(speaking Italian)

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.000
(birds chirping)

00:48:54.751 --> 00:48:57.751
(speaking Italian)

00:50:46.918 --> 00:50:54.918
♪

00:51:11.334 --> 00:51:13.334
(clanking)

00:51:15.876 --> 00:51:18.876
(distant conversation)

00:51:45.959 --> 00:51:48.959
(indistinct chatter)

00:52:07.667 --> 00:52:10.667
(printer humming)

00:52:55.459 --> 00:52:57.459
(indistinct conversation)

00:52:58.334 --> 00:53:01.334
(bell tolling)

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.083
(birds chirping)

00:53:17.792 --> 00:53:25.792
♪

00:55:59.542 --> 00:56:02.542
(door slamming)

00:56:03.459 --> 00:56:06.542
(keys rattling)

00:56:07.959 --> 00:56:10.959
(panting)

00:56:18.167 --> 00:56:21.167
(birds chirping)

00:56:36.584 --> 00:56:39.584
(paint roller squelching)

00:56:50.792 --> 00:56:52.792
(paint sloshing)

00:57:12.542 --> 00:57:14.583
Sol felt his work...
Well, he was influenced

00:57:14.584 --> 00:57:16.501
by Bach.

00:57:16.542 --> 00:57:20.626
And there is a wall drawing
that he did

00:57:20.667 --> 00:57:25.375
which includes
\"adagio,\" \"andante,\" and...

00:57:25.417 --> 00:57:28.375
various musical...

00:57:28.417 --> 00:57:31.166
notations, and...

00:57:31.167 --> 00:57:33.082
but he...

00:57:33.083 --> 00:57:36.124
in his... when we did
the catalogue raisonné

00:57:36.125 --> 00:57:39.082
for the Stedelijk,
he changed the title completely,

00:57:39.083 --> 00:57:43.250
and you would never know
that the original title

00:57:43.292 --> 00:57:45.834
was that, and it became
\"freehand lines\"

00:57:45.876 --> 00:57:49.333
or \"random lines\" instead of...

00:57:49.334 --> 00:57:51.082
the lines...

00:57:51.083 --> 00:57:57.082
drawn adagio, andante,
et cetera, allegro.

00:57:57.083 --> 00:57:59.918
And except for that,

00:57:59.959 --> 00:58:04.459
he did not really include
music in his work.

00:58:05.792 --> 00:58:10.082
But he was a passionate...

00:58:10.083 --> 00:58:12.292
lover of music.

00:58:12.334 --> 00:58:13.999
And he did the collaboration
with Phil Glass

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:17.918
and Lucinda Childs.

00:58:17.959 --> 00:58:20.750
And was very good friends
with Steve Reich

00:58:20.751 --> 00:58:24.209
and various other
contemporary composers.

00:58:24.250 --> 00:58:26.167
And he bought their work
before anybody did,

00:58:26.209 --> 00:58:28.042
and they had needed money,

00:58:28.083 --> 00:58:30.000
which is why
he bought their work,

00:58:30.042 --> 00:58:32.584
but he also supported and loved
their music,

00:58:32.626 --> 00:58:34.000
and them.

00:58:34.042 --> 00:58:42.042
♪

00:59:20.292 --> 00:59:23.292
(birdsong)

00:59:33.584 --> 00:59:36.584
He lived his life
really according to exactly

00:59:36.626 --> 00:59:37.792
how he wanted to.

00:59:37.834 --> 00:59:40.959
And everybody else
sort of fell into place.

00:59:42.083 --> 00:59:44.209
He spent his afternoons
reading, he spent

00:59:44.250 --> 00:59:45.958
his days working.

00:59:45.959 --> 00:59:47.750
He loved working.

00:59:47.751 --> 00:59:51.999
It was completely
a thrill for him.

00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:53.333
He never felt pressured.

00:59:53.334 --> 00:59:55.166
He never felt that
he had to do an exhibition

00:59:55.167 --> 00:59:57.166
because he had promised it.

00:59:57.167 --> 01:00:00.834
It was really a joy every time.

01:00:02.459 --> 01:00:05.292
With a very limited vocabulary,

01:00:05.334 --> 01:00:09.958
he made a language,
and he made rules,

01:00:09.959 --> 01:00:13.124
and then he felt free
to break rules.

01:00:13.125 --> 01:00:21.125
♪

01:01:31.083 --> 01:01:33.958
Certainly, having had a personal
relationship with Sol,

01:01:33.959 --> 01:01:35.792
there was the, you know,
he would come,

01:01:35.834 --> 01:01:38.124
or you would see him,
and you would talk about

01:01:38.125 --> 01:01:39.626
what had occurred
in the process,

01:01:39.667 --> 01:01:43.374
and the ups and downs
and what he was, you know,

01:01:43.375 --> 01:01:45.876
thinking about it.

01:01:45.918 --> 01:01:48.583
And after he passed away,
there was a moment

01:01:48.584 --> 01:01:53.791
where I thought,
I wonder how that will continue,

01:01:53.792 --> 01:01:55.918
because a lot of the assistants

01:01:55.959 --> 01:01:58.000
did have a personal
relationship with Sol

01:01:58.042 --> 01:02:01.626
and knew him for a long time.

01:02:01.667 --> 01:02:06.999
But, intriguingly so,
even after he\'s passed away,

01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:08.333
the work continues,

01:02:08.334 --> 01:02:11.124
and the people who do it
are equally excited,

01:02:11.125 --> 01:02:13.541
and the people like myself

01:02:13.542 --> 01:02:16.167
and several of the others
that have been around

01:02:16.209 --> 01:02:18.374
for a long time,
that knew Sol as a person,

01:02:18.375 --> 01:02:19.834
it\'s still the same process.

01:02:19.876 --> 01:02:22.584
It\'s just like
there\'s this little...

01:02:22.626 --> 01:02:25.709
clique that\'s missing,
but now we have...

01:02:25.751 --> 01:02:27.667
Now that excitement
gets shared, you know,

01:02:27.709 --> 01:02:30.876
more directly with his family.

01:02:30.918 --> 01:02:34.583
But, it doesn\'t diminish.

01:02:34.584 --> 01:02:36.876
And you have
this excitement about

01:02:36.918 --> 01:02:39.375
he would be happy
that this is done.

01:02:39.417 --> 01:02:41.042
He would be excited
to see, you know,

01:02:41.083 --> 01:02:42.792
not excited jumping up and down.

01:02:42.834 --> 01:02:45.792
He wasn\'t a man given
to that sort of behavior,

01:02:45.834 --> 01:02:48.584
but he would be excited
to see it realized.

01:02:48.626 --> 01:02:49.750
And that was always the thing.

01:02:49.751 --> 01:02:52.417
He was like, yeah, I want these
works realized.

01:02:52.459 --> 01:02:53.792
I want people to see them.

01:02:53.834 --> 01:02:57.541
They\'re art
that\'s meant to be seen,

01:02:57.542 --> 01:02:59.541
but...

01:02:59.542 --> 01:03:02.459
it\'s not necessarily just,
you know,

01:03:02.501 --> 01:03:03.834
it can\'t be just there.

01:03:03.876 --> 01:03:07.583
It can be... it can be shared
with everyone everywhere.

01:03:07.584 --> 01:03:10.584
(indistinct conversation)

01:03:29.751 --> 01:03:31.751
(damp brushing)

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:05.083
(peeling)

01:05:41.751 --> 01:05:43.541
The nice thing
about the body of work

01:05:43.542 --> 01:05:49.667
of LeWitt is that
it was large enough...

01:05:49.709 --> 01:05:52.459
and not perfect.

01:05:52.501 --> 01:05:55.042
And that\'s very important.

01:05:55.083 --> 01:06:00.626
And maybe that is
the height of making art,

01:06:00.667 --> 01:06:02.042
that it\'s made by human beings

01:06:02.083 --> 01:06:05.541
and human beings
are not perfect.

01:06:05.542 --> 01:06:08.792
And they don\'t have
to be perfect.

01:06:15.083 --> 01:06:17.042
It\'s about mapping.

01:06:17.083 --> 01:06:21.209
But about mapping aspirations,
rather than mapping

01:06:21.250 --> 01:06:23.709
just sensual feelings.

01:06:23.751 --> 01:06:27.124
It\'s a sensual means
of talking about the visceral.

01:06:27.125 --> 01:06:28.374
Okay?

01:06:28.375 --> 01:06:31.667
That all sounds so pretentious,
I\'m sorry, but...

01:06:31.709 --> 01:06:33.999
art taken out of the context

01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:38.042
of the object itself
always sounds pretentious.

01:07:14.584 --> 01:07:17.584
(speaking foreign language)

01:07:36.751 --> 01:07:39.751
(speaking foreign language)

01:08:23.751 --> 01:08:26.751
(paper crinkling)

01:08:40.083 --> 01:08:43.083
(scraping)

01:08:46.584 --> 01:08:49.584
(speaking foreign language)

01:09:31.042 --> 01:09:32.042
♪