Episode 7 of renowned filmmaker Chris Marker's mythical masterpiece about…
The Owl's Legacy: Misogyny, or the Snares of Desire
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
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“Greek love, Greek eroticism, is a paradigm for us. But it’s something about which we are very hypocritical.” --John Winkler
Classicist Giulia Sissa takes center stage in this episode, which explores desire in ancient Greece (primarily Athens), the social status of women, and the erasure of women by classics scholars.
Homosexual and heterosexual relationships co-existed, each within their own spheres. Any notions of romantic love resided with same-sex relationships, which were also seen as rites of passage for boys initiated into the ways of philosophy. Marriage was a different story—with the father as head of the household, and the mother akin to a child or subject. (Angelique Ionatos says she takes little comfort in the notion that a woman was queen within the household.) While the Greeks celebrated some forms of desire, they also recognized it as an omni-present and potentially powerful source of destruction.
“We should raze the Sorbonne and put Chris Marker in its place.” —Henri Michaux
“The primary pleasure of the series, which is incredibly inspiring, is linked to this great banquet of participants, the sum of knowledge they invoke, but above all to the playful flows the editing establishes between their ideas, constructing a formidable network of meanings, historical and cultural perspectives - a veritable encyclopedia of development." —Le Monde
“Why did we have to wait so long for this electrifyingly intelligent film?” —Le Point
“Thirteen words to uncover an entire civilization and reestablish its considerable influence on our modern societies.” —Les Inrockuptibles
“With erudition, Chris Marker questions in each episode what remains Greek within us.” —Philosophie Magazine
Citation
Main credits
Marker, Chris (film director)
Dussollier, André (narrator)
Other credits
Musiques, Eleni Karaindrou [and 5 others]; image, Andreas Sinanos [and 5 others]; montage, Khadicha Bariha, Nedjma Scialom.
Distributor subjects
Historical Anthropology; Ancient Greece; Chris Marker; France; PhilosophyKeywords
"The Owl's Legacy"; Icarus Films; France; Chris Marker; Ancient Greece; culture; ,doc,art; history; shod
WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.472 align:middle line:90%
[PERCUSSIVE ETHNIC MUSIC]
00:00:03.472 --> 00:00:22.320 align:middle line:90%
00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:25.792 align:middle line:90%
[DISSONANT STRINGS]
00:00:25.792 --> 00:00:31.300 align:middle line:90%
00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:33.370 align:middle line:84%
Let\'s remember now
those Germans who
00:00:33.370 --> 00:00:36.460 align:middle line:84%
sort of invented Greece,
and the most famous of them
00:00:36.460 --> 00:00:38.200 align:middle line:90%
all, Winckelmann.
00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:40.060 align:middle line:84%
Winckelmann was
largely attracted
00:00:40.060 --> 00:00:42.940 align:middle line:84%
to Greek art because of
the statues of athletes,
00:00:42.940 --> 00:00:46.330 align:middle line:84%
because of the physical
ideal beauty of males.
00:00:46.330 --> 00:00:50.230 align:middle line:84%
His homoerotic relationship--
his passionate relationship--
00:00:50.230 --> 00:00:53.890 align:middle line:84%
to the athletic ideals of
ancient Greece are, in a sense,
00:00:53.890 --> 00:00:56.950 align:middle line:84%
the founding moment
for modern classics.
00:00:56.950 --> 00:00:59.200 align:middle line:84%
And yet we never
pay any attention
00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:01.960 align:middle line:84%
to those erotic elements
in Greek culture,
00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:06.340 align:middle line:84%
and in some respects,
in our attraction to it.
00:01:06.340 --> 00:01:08.200 align:middle line:84%
That\'s one of the
most difficult areas
00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:10.600 align:middle line:84%
to talk about because it
involves some of ourselves,
00:01:10.600 --> 00:01:13.690 align:middle line:84%
and our love and passion
for ancient Greece.
00:01:13.690 --> 00:01:16.600 align:middle line:84%
And also sapphic eroticism,
which is one of the things
00:01:16.600 --> 00:01:18.556 align:middle line:90%
we mean by the word Greek.
00:01:18.556 --> 00:01:22.780 align:middle line:84%
Greek love, Greek eroticism,
is a paradigm for us.
00:01:22.780 --> 00:01:26.770 align:middle line:84%
But it\'s something about which
we are very hypocritical.
00:01:26.770 --> 00:01:28.270 align:middle line:84%
Hypocritical meaning,
we are actors.
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We put on a Greek mask, a kind
of a special face, when we\'re
00:01:31.810 --> 00:01:33.760 align:middle line:84%
talking about ancient
Greece, and don\'t
00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:36.430 align:middle line:84%
let the twinkle in
our eyes show through
00:01:36.430 --> 00:01:37.570 align:middle line:90%
as much as is really there.
00:01:37.570 --> 00:05:44.710 align:middle line:90%
00:05:44.710 --> 00:05:48.240 align:middle line:84%
Greek sexuality
is very different
00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.220 align:middle line:84%
in its main structures
from our own.
00:05:53.220 --> 00:05:58.160 align:middle line:84%
For us, I think, the
problematization of sexuality
00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:59.280 align:middle line:90%
is universal.
00:05:59.280 --> 00:06:02.350 align:middle line:84%
There\'s no area of sexual
activity which is not,
00:06:02.350 --> 00:06:04.350 align:middle line:84%
in some sense,
problematized-- is not
00:06:04.350 --> 00:06:08.760 align:middle line:84%
made, as Foucault would say, to
serve the ends, the purposes,
00:06:08.760 --> 00:06:10.000 align:middle line:90%
of society.
00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:15.520 align:middle line:84%
And in the Greek world,
the full development
00:06:15.520 --> 00:06:18.730 align:middle line:84%
of the problematization
of sexuality
00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:23.350 align:middle line:84%
seems to have occurred only
in relation to homosexuality.
00:06:23.350 --> 00:06:29.130 align:middle line:84%
The homosexual world was a world
very different from our own.
00:06:29.130 --> 00:06:32.890 align:middle line:84%
A world not devoted
to principles
00:06:32.890 --> 00:06:37.300 align:middle line:84%
of free love, free
choice, the ability
00:06:37.300 --> 00:06:40.690 align:middle line:84%
to choose one\'s own
form of sexuality,
00:06:40.690 --> 00:06:49.960 align:middle line:84%
but to the rituals of transition
from adolescence to manhood--
00:06:49.960 --> 00:06:50.680 align:middle line:90%
rites of passage.
00:06:50.680 --> 00:08:17.410 align:middle line:90%
00:08:17.410 --> 00:08:24.060 align:middle line:84%
It therefore involved
verbalisation in literary form,
00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:26.202 align:middle line:90%
in poetry.
00:08:26.202 --> 00:08:31.320 align:middle line:84%
And what is
particularly remarkable,
00:08:31.320 --> 00:08:33.600 align:middle line:84%
I think, about this
poetry, about the range
00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:36.299 align:middle line:84%
of its vocabulary, the
range of its attitudes,
00:08:36.299 --> 00:08:44.110 align:middle line:84%
is that the Greeks had
created all those responses
00:08:44.110 --> 00:08:47.810 align:middle line:84%
of frustrated sexuality, all
those forms of problematization
00:08:47.810 --> 00:08:53.040 align:middle line:84%
of sexuality, which we
associate with romantic love.
00:08:53.040 --> 00:08:58.950 align:middle line:84%
For the Greek world, romantic
love was homosexual love.
00:08:58.950 --> 00:09:01.650 align:middle line:84%
Heterosexual love
is something that
00:09:01.650 --> 00:09:05.400 align:middle line:84%
exists in heterosexual
activity, say, not love.
00:09:05.400 --> 00:09:08.820 align:middle line:84%
Because heterosexual
love didn\'t exist.
00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:14.100 align:middle line:84%
Heterosexual sexual activity
existed within the symposium,
00:09:14.100 --> 00:09:18.090 align:middle line:84%
within the drinking group,
as a question concerning
00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:20.810 align:middle line:90%
the girls who were brought in--
00:09:20.810 --> 00:09:25.620 align:middle line:84%
the female companions who were
brought in as accompaniment
00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:27.960 align:middle line:90%
to drinking.
00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:33.970 align:middle line:84%
And these hetairai,
these female companions,
00:09:33.970 --> 00:09:38.260 align:middle line:84%
are mentioned often in
the poetry of the period.
00:09:38.260 --> 00:09:41.330 align:middle line:84%
But the interesting
thing seems to me
00:09:41.330 --> 00:09:47.870 align:middle line:84%
to be that, whereas the
love poems addressed to men
00:09:47.870 --> 00:09:51.300 align:middle line:90%
are addressed to real men--
00:09:51.300 --> 00:09:54.680 align:middle line:84%
men who are your
social equal and who
00:09:54.680 --> 00:09:57.590 align:middle line:90%
belong within your own group--
00:09:57.590 --> 00:10:02.330 align:middle line:84%
the poems addressed to women
are addressed generically
00:10:02.330 --> 00:10:03.740 align:middle line:90%
to a class of women.
00:10:03.740 --> 00:10:07.400 align:middle line:84%
The Thracian girl, the
Scythian lady, and so on.
00:10:07.400 --> 00:10:13.750 align:middle line:84%
And they express always
not the desire and pursuit
00:10:13.750 --> 00:10:20.770 align:middle line:84%
of the beloved, but the
satisfaction of conquest.
00:10:20.770 --> 00:10:25.960 align:middle line:84%
They concern girls
who have no right
00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:28.930 align:middle line:84%
to protest, who are
immediately available,
00:10:28.930 --> 00:10:35.340 align:middle line:84%
and whose skills are
enjoyed, one might say,
00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:39.540 align:middle line:90%
purely as gymnastic skills--
00:10:39.540 --> 00:10:42.200 align:middle line:90%
without any deeper commitment.
00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:46.470 align:middle line:84%
Or it existed in relation
to the family, in which case
00:10:46.470 --> 00:10:49.800 align:middle line:84%
it was normal to marry
one\'s nearest cousin.
00:10:49.800 --> 00:10:53.190 align:middle line:84%
And the relationship
was a relationship
00:10:53.190 --> 00:10:57.030 align:middle line:84%
of the sharing of property and
the transmission of property
00:10:57.030 --> 00:10:58.080 align:middle line:90%
to the next generation.
00:10:58.080 --> 00:14:47.570 align:middle line:90%
00:14:47.570 --> 00:14:50.300 align:middle line:84%
We revolt against reading
Aristotle\'s description
00:14:50.300 --> 00:14:52.760 align:middle line:84%
of family relations
in terms of politics,
00:14:52.760 --> 00:14:55.460 align:middle line:84%
when he says that the husband
and the wife and the children
00:14:55.460 --> 00:14:58.040 align:middle line:84%
and slaves are related
as political systems are.
00:14:58.040 --> 00:14:59.890 align:middle line:84%
That the father is
related to the slaves
00:14:59.890 --> 00:15:01.770 align:middle line:90%
as a absolute tyrant.
00:15:01.770 --> 00:15:03.770 align:middle line:84%
He gives commands that
they must carry them out.
00:15:03.770 --> 00:15:07.880 align:middle line:84%
The father is related to
children as a benevolent king.
00:15:07.880 --> 00:15:10.080 align:middle line:84%
Benevolent, but nonetheless,
he gives commands
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:12.260 align:middle line:90%
and they must be carried out.
00:15:12.260 --> 00:15:15.260 align:middle line:84%
Then he says that the husband
is related to a wife--
00:15:15.260 --> 00:15:17.290 align:middle line:84%
and there, he says
something very peculiar--
00:15:17.290 --> 00:15:20.480 align:middle line:84%
is related as members
of a democracy.
00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.850 align:middle line:84%
But just as in a
democracy, certain citizens
00:15:22.850 --> 00:15:25.820 align:middle line:84%
are picked out for
a biannual election
00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:28.820 align:middle line:84%
to be temporarily the
leaders of other citizens
00:15:28.820 --> 00:15:30.680 align:middle line:84%
with whom they are
theoretically equal.
00:15:30.680 --> 00:15:33.180 align:middle line:84%
So to a husband is related
to a wife in the same way,
00:15:33.180 --> 00:15:35.256 align:middle line:90%
except that it\'s permanent.
00:15:35.256 --> 00:15:37.150 align:middle line:90%
[LAUGHING]
00:15:37.150 --> 00:17:47.070 align:middle line:90%
00:17:47.070 --> 00:17:49.752 align:middle line:84%
Your wife, Katina Paxinou,
has never directed, has she?
00:17:49.752 --> 00:17:50.760 align:middle line:90%
No, no, no.
00:17:50.760 --> 00:17:52.362 align:middle line:90%
She never did.
00:17:52.362 --> 00:17:55.910 align:middle line:84%
Don\'t you forget that
she\'s a woman, of course.
00:17:55.910 --> 00:18:02.770 align:middle line:84%
And an actress, rather, prefers
to be directed than directing.
00:18:02.770 --> 00:18:04.960 align:middle line:90%
Like in life, they very much--
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:09.244 align:middle line:84%
women-- they much prefer to
be directed than be directing.
00:18:09.244 --> 00:18:11.480 align:middle line:90%
Don\'t you think so?
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:13.520 align:middle line:84%
I\'m rather conservative
on this point.
00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:17.150 align:middle line:84%
I find it\'s very difficult
to talk about feminism
00:18:17.150 --> 00:18:18.770 align:middle line:84%
with regard to the
Greeks, who didn\'t
00:18:18.770 --> 00:18:25.430 align:middle line:84%
have any concept of feminism,
and to impose this on them.
00:18:25.430 --> 00:18:28.040 align:middle line:84%
And when we look at
Greek tragedy, which
00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:31.700 align:middle line:84%
is dealing so much with women
and with prominent women,
00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:35.710 align:middle line:84%
I always wonder to what extent
we\'re dealing with myth,
00:18:35.710 --> 00:18:39.740 align:middle line:84%
and archetypes through
myth, and, yes, concerns
00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:41.870 align:middle line:84%
of the society,
but maybe concerns
00:18:41.870 --> 00:18:46.760 align:middle line:84%
that weren\'t explicit or
overt and had to be presented
00:18:46.760 --> 00:18:50.915 align:middle line:90%
in other forms, such as myth.
00:18:50.915 --> 00:18:53.450 align:middle line:84%
As you say, there was no women\'s
movement in ancient Greece.
00:18:53.450 --> 00:18:56.420 align:middle line:84%
But you can\'t even say \"women\'s
movement\" in ancient Greece.
00:18:56.420 --> 00:19:00.110 align:middle line:84%
The nearest you can get to it
is some phrase like, [GREEK],,
00:19:00.110 --> 00:19:02.400 align:middle line:84%
which would be a stand
off of the wives,
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.540 align:middle line:90%
not of women in general.
00:19:03.540 --> 00:19:05.390 align:middle line:84%
And that is just
what is represented
00:19:05.390 --> 00:19:08.090 align:middle line:90%
in Aristophanes\' Lysistrata.
00:19:08.090 --> 00:19:11.630 align:middle line:84%
The wives of Athenian
citizens-- not the slave women,
00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:13.330 align:middle line:84%
and not the wives
of resident aliens,
00:19:13.330 --> 00:19:15.770 align:middle line:90%
but just the wives of citizens--
00:19:15.770 --> 00:19:18.500 align:middle line:90%
have a standoff, a strike.
00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:22.550 align:middle line:84%
They separate themselves from
the men to make a statement.
00:19:22.550 --> 00:19:24.110 align:middle line:84%
And that statement,
don\'t you think,
00:19:24.110 --> 00:19:27.560 align:middle line:84%
contains more
proto-feminist oomph
00:19:27.560 --> 00:19:30.410 align:middle line:84%
than virtually any other text we
can find in the ancient world.
00:19:30.410 --> 00:19:33.620 align:middle line:90%
It says, basically, darn it.
00:19:33.620 --> 00:19:35.820 align:middle line:84%
Men have treated us so
badly, and look at what
00:19:35.820 --> 00:19:37.070 align:middle line:90%
women\'s lives are really like.
00:19:37.070 --> 00:21:32.960 align:middle line:90%
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:38.810 align:middle line:84%
If you ask me about my feelings
about the lack of women,
00:21:38.810 --> 00:21:41.450 align:middle line:84%
and of love for women
in the symposium,
00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:43.100 align:middle line:90%
I was disappointed about it.
00:21:43.100 --> 00:21:48.830 align:middle line:84%
But I succeeded so well in
overcoming that disappointment
00:21:48.830 --> 00:21:54.200 align:middle line:84%
that I can\'t even
remember it, no.
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:57.770 align:middle line:84%
I don\'t think women were
as unimportant as that.
00:21:57.770 --> 00:22:35.090 align:middle line:90%
00:22:35.090 --> 00:22:39.020 align:middle line:84%
One should never forget, for
instance, that the Greeks--
00:22:39.020 --> 00:22:42.950 align:middle line:84%
the male Greeks-- were brought
up among women exclusively.
00:22:42.950 --> 00:22:49.825 align:middle line:84%
And they were the tyrants of the
oikos, and the absolute rulers.
00:22:49.825 --> 00:23:27.890 align:middle line:90%
00:23:27.890 --> 00:23:31.046 align:middle line:84%
The least I can say is that I
wouldn\'t have wished to live.
00:23:31.046 --> 00:23:34.518 align:middle line:90%
[LAUGHING]
00:23:34.518 --> 00:23:37.990 align:middle line:90%
[SOMBER ORCHESTRAL MUSIC]
00:23:37.990 --> 00:23:47.940 align:middle line:90%
00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:49.890 align:middle line:90%
Kinky people, these Greeks.
00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:53.820 align:middle line:84%
Democrats and phallocrats, petty
dictators over women, and yet
00:23:53.820 --> 00:23:56.430 align:middle line:84%
helpless and disarmed when
women go on a love strike
00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:58.920 align:middle line:90%
with Lysistrata.
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.810 align:middle line:84%
Philosophers ever-ready
to save souls
00:24:00.810 --> 00:24:03.750 align:middle line:84%
as long as the bodies they
inhabit are desirable.
00:24:03.750 --> 00:24:06.420 align:middle line:84%
And yet their sculptor\'s left us
the most breathtaking imprints
00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:08.190 align:middle line:84%
of womanhood, while
their dramatists
00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:12.046 align:middle line:84%
left us the strongest characters
of women ever conceived.
00:24:12.046 --> 00:24:14.000 align:middle line:90%
Enough.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.670 align:middle line:84%
To avoid being unfair
towards an ambiguous relation
00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:19.100 align:middle line:84%
between Greek man
and woman, it\'s
00:24:19.100 --> 00:24:22.070 align:middle line:84%
time to raise a curtain on the
world in which that relation is
00:24:22.070 --> 00:24:24.586 align:middle line:84%
lifted to the
heights it deserves--
00:24:24.586 --> 00:24:25.460 align:middle line:90%
the world of tragedy.
00:24:25.460 --> 00:24:33.260 align:middle line:90%
00:24:33.260 --> 00:24:35.360 align:middle line:90%
[DRAMATIC, DISSONANT STRINGS]
00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:56.960 align:middle line:90%
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.310 align:middle line:90%
[UPLIFTING ORCHESTRAL MUSIC]
00:25:00.310 --> 00:26:11.008 align:middle line:90%
Distributor: Icarus Films
Length: 26 minutes
Date: 1989
Genre: Expository
Language: French; German; English
Closed Captioning: Available
Interactive Transcript: Available
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