The tale of two breaths: that of Iratxe Sorzabal and her mother, Mari…
Memory and Beyond
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
View on the Pragda STREAM site
The film weaves the life experiences of Sara Rus, a Holocaust survivor who navigated intolerance and hatred again in Argentina after the disappearance of her son Daniel during the military dictatorship. As an active member of Madres de Plaza de Mayo Línea Fundadora, Sara's resilience and courage shine through, illuminating the themes of dignity, tenderness, love, Jewish identity, and the limits of resistance.
Through Sara's firsthand testimony, viewers are immersed in the profound moments of her history. Her granddaughter Paula, a philosophy student, grapples with the family legacy, continuing the narrative of resilience passed down through generations.
The film offers insights gleaned from discussions with students, encounters with notable figures in the human rights struggle, and first-person interviews. Through Paula's introspections, viewers are prompted to contemplate the significance of preserving memory and the responsibility of passing it on from one generation to the next.
Citation
Main credits
Feller, Edu (film director)
Feller, Edu (screenwriter)
Posternak, Federico (film producer)
Posternak, Federico (screenwriter)
Kantor, Ignacio (film producer)
Pastore, Gabriel (film producer)
Scheinkopf, Paula (screenwriter)
Other credits
Cinematography, Nahuel Varela; editing, Martín Delrieux, Eduardo Feller; music, Juano Damiani.
Distributor subjects
Activism; Women; Fascism + Repression; Human Rights; History; Biography; Criminal Justice; South America; Latin American Studies; Religion + SpiritualityKeywords
00:00:57.970 --> 00:00:59.850
Did you understand that?
00:01:00.350 --> 00:01:07.100
"One person wanting to rouse in another
memories that belonged to a third
00:01:07.150 --> 00:01:10.250
is an evident paradox.
00:01:10.320 --> 00:01:18.100
To play out that paradox with abandon
is every biography's innocent will."
00:01:18.150 --> 00:01:20.150
-- Jorge Luis Borges
00:01:57.300 --> 00:02:00.250
It's like... the feeling of memories.
00:02:02.150 --> 00:02:05.020
That's what I have left
of my grandparents' story.
00:02:06.300 --> 00:02:13.000
Kind of like... vibrations,
hazy images, scattered stories.
00:02:14.550 --> 00:02:18.920
I often wonder what to do with
the memories and experiences of others.
00:02:24.870 --> 00:02:26.620
A short biography of my life:
00:02:27.250 --> 00:02:29.850
It wouldn't be appropriate
to call it an "autobiography".
00:02:30.170 --> 00:02:33.000
Calling it "memories" would be
more fitting.
00:02:33.820 --> 00:02:39.120
Be that as it may, things took
a special turn since the last World War.
00:02:45.070 --> 00:02:48.750
The columns of humanity are crumbling
under their foundations,
00:02:49.600 --> 00:02:52.700
morals are smothered, a loss of security,
00:02:52.870 --> 00:02:56.970
a lack of faith and a life rhythm
steadily rising in intensity
00:02:57.050 --> 00:02:59.220
puts man at a crossroads;
00:02:59.350 --> 00:03:01.700
how to live in order to survive.
00:03:04.750 --> 00:03:09.920
The millions drowned in their own blood,
dead in gas chambers,
00:03:10.220 --> 00:03:15.420
beheaded through other means,
claim for revenge and justice.
00:03:23.220 --> 00:03:24.620
That would be the prologue.
00:03:24.850 --> 00:03:28.300
On the next pages
I'll try to describe my life a little,
00:03:28.420 --> 00:03:31.650
from my first memories to today.
00:03:40.650 --> 00:03:42.900
I never knew my grandfather Bernardo.
00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.250
He died a few days after I was born.
00:03:49.670 --> 00:03:51.750
He wrote this text.
00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:56.350
Although we don't know exactly when,
in what year.
00:03:59.950 --> 00:04:02.020
What pushed him to share his story?
00:04:07.450 --> 00:04:10.150
Did he write to survive his own death?
00:04:17.300 --> 00:04:19.900
What survives of a survivor?
00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.520
Oh, my God.
00:04:26.700 --> 00:04:29.020
At night things come back to me.
00:04:30.870 --> 00:04:34.070
Suddenly things appear and I think,
"My God,
00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:37.150
how is it that I never remembered
about this before?"
00:04:38.070 --> 00:04:42.650
And there are things
that just pop up in my memories.
00:04:43.070 --> 00:04:46.870
Things that sometimes I never even told
my children or my granddaughters.
00:04:47.150 --> 00:04:52.700
Things that I'd love to tell them
about what I've lived through,
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:54.770
what I did when I was young.
00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:58.770
One remembers surprising things.
00:04:58.970 --> 00:05:01.320
That's memory for you, right?
00:05:06.050 --> 00:05:07.900
- How are you?
- It's been a while!
00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.350
- It's been a while since we last met.
- Yes.
00:05:15.070 --> 00:05:19.650
- It's hard for me to fit with this belly.
- Yeah? Well, push your chair back.
00:05:19.670 --> 00:05:20.650
That's it.
00:05:23.220 --> 00:05:29.350
MEMORY AND BEYOND
00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:39.350
- Paula, do you want watermelon?
- OK.
00:05:40.810 --> 00:05:42.420
- I was...
- At grandma's?
00:05:42.470 --> 00:05:52.070
At her house, I found a biography
of grandpa's, I don't know if you read it.
00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:56.770
Beno's biography.
He wrote down his story...
00:05:58.470 --> 00:06:01.470
- He wrote down his story?
- He did.
00:06:01.570 --> 00:06:07.750
He did a prologue, a part
about the ghetto, another about the camps,
00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:12.920
he wrote it just like that,
in a typewriter
00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:16.200
- from that time.
- I can't believe it. I didn't know.
00:06:16.300 --> 00:06:23.150
And, well... It's an impressive text.
00:06:23.250 --> 00:06:26.320
- It describes a lot of things...
- Show me.
00:06:26.370 --> 00:06:31.450
These things, grandma keeps them
and no one knows about them.
00:06:33.770 --> 00:06:37.050
We know grandma's story so well...
00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:44.820
that we often forget
about the rest of the family.
00:06:44.870 --> 00:06:47.550
I never saw this. I never saw this.
00:06:47.650 --> 00:06:50.870
I've a bad memory, but a good
visual memory. I never saw this.
00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:56.800
- Your grandma gave you this?
- Yeah, I found it in her house one day.
00:06:57.100 --> 00:07:00.720
She has all kinds of things
among her documents.
00:07:00.770 --> 00:07:02.470
I'm dying to read it.
00:07:03.070 --> 00:07:05.620
- Well, go ahead.
- How much did he write?
00:07:05.650 --> 00:07:07.620
Is Dany's story here too?
00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.070
No.
00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:16.200
I recognize the typewriter's font.
Can you believe that?
00:07:16.250 --> 00:07:19.220
But I don't remember this.
00:07:19.470 --> 00:07:23.670
It has dates, his parents' names...
00:07:23.900 --> 00:07:27.570
Everything they did in the ghettos,
and in the camps...
00:07:27.700 --> 00:07:32.520
I always said I have
your grandma's entire story in my head,
00:07:32.750 --> 00:07:36.550
I think mostly because of everything
she told us about Spielberg,
00:07:36.670 --> 00:07:42.520
that whole story... and of dad's,
I had so little... How nice!
00:07:42.570 --> 00:07:46.920
It's a bit more complete of an account.
00:07:46.950 --> 00:07:53.320
It helps me to piece together
my dad's story.
00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:58.200
We're seeing different versions of this,
00:07:58.250 --> 00:08:00.770
because grandma
always tells it differently.
00:08:01.850 --> 00:08:06.970
This is different altogether.
It's new information...
00:08:07.050 --> 00:08:11.450
Grandma adapts the story each time
she tells it. She changes it a little.
00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:22.550
I grew up with my grandmother.
00:08:23.770 --> 00:08:28.450
However, for many years
I knew nothing of her story.
00:08:29.220 --> 00:08:30.250
Nothing.
00:08:32.300 --> 00:08:39.220
With my sister we used to get into
her closet and try on her clothes,
00:08:39.420 --> 00:08:42.300
her necklaces, everything we could find.
00:08:51.150 --> 00:08:54.146
I remember the closets smelled
somehow like something was amiss,
00:08:54.187 --> 00:08:56.650
alien, like exile.
00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:04.800
The house usually smelled
like homemade soup.
00:09:07.850 --> 00:09:11.820
We didn't know anything
about her story, until she told it.
00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:33.220
- How long have you had this album?
- I've had this since 1947.
00:09:34.450 --> 00:09:35.370
Wait.
00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:40.120
A bag inside a bag.
00:09:43.570 --> 00:09:47.370
Before I left Germany...
00:09:48.270 --> 00:09:52.170
my coworkers gave me a gift,
00:09:53.270 --> 00:09:57.200
an album they'd put together
with pictures.
00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:01.870
After that I kept adding to it
with my own pictures.
00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.300
My husband had decided
not to remain in Poland,
00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:11.320
so we tried to cross the border
to Germany,
00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:13.750
but it was blocked by the Allies.
00:10:13.850 --> 00:10:15.600
To the American part.
00:10:16.050 --> 00:10:22.700
We were able to cross
and we got to a refugee camp in Berlin.
00:10:23.100 --> 00:10:26.250
The camp was called UNRRA Lager.
00:10:26.550 --> 00:10:30.000
Look. To remember it by, right?
00:10:31.400 --> 00:10:32.170
Look.
00:10:32.670 --> 00:10:37.600
I was working at the refugee camp,
00:10:38.500 --> 00:10:41.000
helping in the kitchens.
00:10:42.850 --> 00:10:45.070
I was a very young girl.
00:10:45.250 --> 00:10:49.370
And I had a pretty nice little body.
00:10:49.850 --> 00:10:51.170
Graceful.
00:10:51.800 --> 00:10:56.670
With a white apron
and a little thing on my head...
00:10:56.870 --> 00:10:59.600
Serving people food.
00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:01.670
And I moved...
00:11:03.550 --> 00:11:07.600
I think I moved quite well then.
00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:12.420
And it turns out the people
who wanted to start a theater,
00:11:12.770 --> 00:11:14.500
started to follow me.
00:11:15.650 --> 00:11:20.200
And they followed me. Wherever I went,
someone went after me.
00:11:20.900 --> 00:11:24.450
And, truthfully,
at the beginning I got scared.
00:11:25.370 --> 00:11:30.500
Because... I was married already,
with Bernardo, my husband.
00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:32.770
And I told him,
00:11:32.800 --> 00:11:36.770
"Look, there are people following me
and I don't know who they are,"
00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:41.770
and he told me, "I'll keep an eye
on these people, see who they are."
00:11:42.050 --> 00:11:43.070
Well,
00:11:43.520 --> 00:11:47.300
he suddenly finds one of them, a man,
00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:51.920
and he tells him,
"why are you following my wife?"
00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:55.420
"She's my wife."
"Oh, your wife? So young?"
00:11:56.150 --> 00:12:00.250
he said, "look,
we're organizing a theater,"
00:12:01.300 --> 00:12:08.120
"and we need young people,
lithe and graceful,"
00:12:09.670 --> 00:12:11.050
and I said, "I like it,"
00:12:13.820 --> 00:12:18.670
Oh, well, this thing here,
we worked in plays,
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.920
I'll say... in short sketches.
00:12:22.150 --> 00:12:26.720
so in one of them I played a baker,
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:30.920
in another I was a dancer...
00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:34.050
And we sang things...
00:12:34.570 --> 00:12:39.070
related to the bakery, very nice songs.
00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:41.220
Do you remember the songs?
00:12:41.370 --> 00:12:46.520
- Do you want me to sing and translate?
- Sing in Yiddish first, it's much nicer.
00:12:47.020 --> 00:12:49.180
We're bakers.
00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:51.770
Nice and beautiful young people.
00:12:52.020 --> 00:12:54.750
We work night and day,
00:12:55.100 --> 00:12:57.670
mixed in the dough.
00:12:58.370 --> 00:13:02.300
We... work here...
00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.670
We-- I can't believe this...
00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:08.220
mixed in the dough...
00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:15.060
But I sang it just this morning.
00:13:15.650 --> 00:13:19.620
How weird, right?
I have to remember this song.
00:13:20.550 --> 00:13:23.250
Where does it come from,
that impulse to tell her story?
00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:25.400
Why is she telling me this?
00:13:26.170 --> 00:13:29.220
I hear her and I think
about the feebleness of memories,
00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:31.850
the impossibility of replaying them.
00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:38.050
From her tale, I take, above all,
her way of telling, and of forgetting.
00:13:40.650 --> 00:13:42.650
What does she hope we do with her story?
00:13:43.770 --> 00:13:45.550
It's still unknown to me.
00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:57.300
"The columns of humanity are crumbling
under their foundations" -- Bernardo Rus
00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:10.800
- How are you?
- Hi, how are you?
00:14:11.970 --> 00:14:15.060
- How's it going? A pleasure to see you.
- I'm happy to see you.
00:14:15.170 --> 00:14:16.870
- Of course.
- And thank you.
00:14:17.020 --> 00:14:19.370
- How are you?
- My daughter...
00:14:19.970 --> 00:14:22.470
Careful with that line. Watch out.
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:26.200
Where do we sit?
00:14:31.850 --> 00:14:33.300
How are you, Sara?
00:14:38.470 --> 00:14:41.170
I visited Mauthausen.
00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:43.770
- At Mauthausen?
- I saw it.
00:14:43.850 --> 00:14:47.950
- There I was saved by the Americans.
- And it's awful.
00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:53.220
What was Mauthausen,
where we arrived in the last transport.
00:14:53.900 --> 00:14:59.200
Our transport got there...
like a Death March.
00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:07.800
Because we were exhausted,
after the Birkenau concentration camps...
00:15:08.350 --> 00:15:11.550
after working in an airplane factory,
00:15:12.900 --> 00:15:16.550
and everything
with such small body as I have,
00:15:17.520 --> 00:15:20.700
I weighted 55 pounds at most...
00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:23.650
when the war ended.
00:15:23.870 --> 00:15:29.870
There, in Mauthausen,
almost 5000 Spanish men lost their lives.
00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:31.800
5000 republican men.
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.870
But there were camps for gypsies,
00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:38.970
for the disabled, for Jews...
00:15:39.420 --> 00:15:40.550
for Russians...
00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:45.050
There were camps for every nationality,
thrown together...
00:15:45.270 --> 00:15:48.270
We were like missing from the world, too.
00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:52.970
Because there are many people who
say they didn't know about these places.
00:15:53.420 --> 00:15:56.320
I'm not sure they didn't, because...
00:15:56.520 --> 00:16:02.570
many have to deny it now, and say
they didn't know what was happening.
00:16:03.070 --> 00:16:05.320
The world knew what was happening.
00:16:08.970 --> 00:16:11.800
I was born in Lodz, in Poland.
00:16:12.500 --> 00:16:15.420
A huge industrial city.
00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:22.620
When I was little I loved to play soccer.
00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:28.820
I was a pretty restless child,
a little rebellious.
00:16:29.900 --> 00:16:34.420
My childhood didn't last very long,
because...
00:16:34.550 --> 00:16:38.420
I didn't get to finish elementary school.
00:16:40.450 --> 00:16:42.400
When the Germans entered the city,
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:49.600
I didn't understand yet how they would
treat us, and what would happen.
00:16:50.450 --> 00:16:55.350
And well, all that
was very frightening for me.
00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:06.670
When the war started all of my
childhood dreams blew up in smoke.
00:17:07.370 --> 00:17:12.900
And I had to adapt to things
that were a lot harder.
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.300
Lodz... Oh!
00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:23.220
Ulica Piotrkowska.
00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:27.420
Look at this...
00:17:28.270 --> 00:17:30.700
Lodz's main street.
00:17:32.570 --> 00:17:33.850
Here is Piotrkowska,
00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:39.250
on the other side there was a neighborhood
where many Jews used to live.
00:17:43.350 --> 00:17:45.750
This city is exactly the same.
00:17:46.370 --> 00:17:47.800
They didn't destroy it.
00:17:47.870 --> 00:17:52.770
No, it's the same. This is what it
looked like in your time, didn't it?
00:17:53.750 --> 00:17:55.920
- Is this the one?
- That's right.
00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.650
- Ground floor?
- Ground floor, yes.
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:07.650
Oh, what a wreck.
00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:16.000
- Oh, I can't believe it.
- This looks new.
00:18:16.100 --> 00:18:19.100
This is the entrance.
This is the entrance, here.
00:18:19.350 --> 00:18:24.170
This was the front door.
Downstairs was ours.
00:18:25.970 --> 00:18:28.020
This was like a fridge.
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.450
When we made food for the holidays,
00:18:32.070 --> 00:18:34.850
it was kept very cold in here.
00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:40.300
The same place,
I wanted to see if it still exists.
00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:53.920
Oh my God, this is so old.
00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:04.850
Good morning. I've a question,
if this lady can come in for a moment.
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.100
- Yes, excuse me, madam.
- Do you speak Polish?
00:19:07.150 --> 00:19:10.600
- Come in, please.
- Come in.
00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:15.050
- Just over here, because...
- Good, good.
00:19:29.950 --> 00:19:32.520
- Madam, I hope you'll excuse me...
- Please.
00:19:39.320 --> 00:19:42.350
- Come in, please.
- I used to live here.
00:19:42.870 --> 00:19:44.070
You lived here?
00:19:45.350 --> 00:19:47.970
- Before the war.
- Come in.
00:20:06.020 --> 00:20:11.300
In this house the first toilet
in the building was installed.
00:20:12.250 --> 00:20:15.700
And here there was a... corridor.
00:20:16.350 --> 00:20:19.550
And I still remember there were...
00:20:20.750 --> 00:20:26.700
stripes on the wall...
00:20:27.620 --> 00:20:31.250
I can't believe this is still here.
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:36.750
- Have you lived here long?
- Twenty-two years.
00:20:37.050 --> 00:20:42.650
And do the same people
still live upstairs since before the war?
00:20:42.770 --> 00:20:46.270
No, no one. There's no one left.
00:20:46.350 --> 00:20:48.120
Of course.
00:20:49.570 --> 00:20:52.800
It's great that I can still
communicate in Polish.
00:20:52.850 --> 00:20:54.620
- You speak it very well.
- How's that?
00:20:54.620 --> 00:20:57.970
- You speak a very good Polish.
- Thank you.
00:20:58.020 --> 00:21:01.500
So many years,
and you speak it very well indeed.
00:21:04.870 --> 00:21:11.120
This is the first time
I come back to Lodz.
00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:17.900
- I thank you very much.
- There's no need, really.
00:21:18.570 --> 00:21:20.970
It mustn't be very nice...
00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:25.050
I don't know what it feels like...
00:21:26.170 --> 00:21:29.950
I moved out of here when I was twelve.
00:21:32.170 --> 00:21:36.570
Going through this is very hard for me...
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:41.200
But the house is exactly the same.
00:21:43.050 --> 00:21:48.600
We had to fix some things. It's old.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.550
And you have to climb the stairs.
00:21:52.250 --> 00:21:55.500
There's no elevator.
00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:58.200
Like in the old days.
00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:05.200
- Yes, yes.
- It's just the stairs, then?
00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:07.100
Look at that...
00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:16.670
- Madam, I thank you from the heart.
- There's no need.
00:22:16.750 --> 00:22:19.870
- Thank you.
- See you.
00:22:22.270 --> 00:22:23.600
Goodbye.
00:22:26.850 --> 00:22:31.500
- Is the stove the same? The iron stove?
- Kind of. I don't remember. Iron?
00:22:31.650 --> 00:22:37.920
And my father had...
further inside he had his sewing workshop.
00:22:38.870 --> 00:22:43.750
And here...
the first toilet built was ours.
00:22:43.850 --> 00:22:47.970
- Here's the tub.
- No, just the toilet and sink.
00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:49.950
Toilet and sink.
00:22:51.150 --> 00:22:54.800
It was the first toilet.
Is there one upstairs now?
00:22:54.820 --> 00:22:58.300
Yes, there is one now.
00:22:58.620 --> 00:23:00.670
- Goodbye.
- Goodbye.
00:23:10.850 --> 00:23:12.970
- Let's see...
- This one.
00:23:14.420 --> 00:23:19.100
Which one do you like best,
out of all these?
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.650
Oh, where is that picture?
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.420
No, no, no, we skipped it. Wait.
00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:27.520
I like this picture.
00:23:28.750 --> 00:23:30.350
When I played Cozette.
00:23:34.350 --> 00:23:39.700
How did you relate to Cozette?
To the character?
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.550
- This Cozette character.
- Well... it was that...
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.020
She lived in poverty,
00:23:50.300 --> 00:23:54.020
she lived with her mother
in utter poverty.
00:23:54.970 --> 00:24:01.270
And she met this man,
who after being homeless
00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:04.370
got rich again,
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.900
and he adopted us as family,
00:24:09.020 --> 00:24:14.670
I felt... like when I got out
of the misery I lived in,
00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:20.050
and suddenly I feel like in paradise.
00:24:21.250 --> 00:24:24.770
That was the change I felt.
00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:26.370
KAVANAGH BUILDING - BUENOS AIRES
00:24:26.570 --> 00:24:28.850
How was the arrival in this country?
00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:34.770
The arrival... truthfully...
00:24:36.270 --> 00:24:39.170
it's an amazing story.
00:24:40.070 --> 00:24:42.720
After Germany,
00:24:43.250 --> 00:24:46.700
we had to cross over to France,
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:51.070
where my uncle
had already gotten the papers
00:24:51.770 --> 00:24:53.550
to come to Argentina.
00:24:53.770 --> 00:24:59.900
We had to pass through consulates,
because Argentina didn't receive us.
00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:04.250
So we went to Paraguay,
and then crossed over to Argentina,
00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:07.170
illegally, we were arrested,
00:25:07.550 --> 00:25:09.875
and again in Formosa,
(Province of Formosa)
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:15.750
doing everything we could
so they would receive us in Buenos Aires.
00:25:16.520 --> 00:25:18.820
Because in Perón's times,
00:25:19.270 --> 00:25:24.100
in 1948, you couldn't enter Argentina.
00:25:24.670 --> 00:25:28.120
the Jews were forbidden
to come to Argentina.
00:25:29.170 --> 00:25:34.870
Your grandfather Beno, Bernardo,
wrote a letter to Eva Perón,
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:40.150
and she was probably moved
by this letter,
00:25:41.050 --> 00:25:45.170
so she sent us paperworks
to come to Buenos Aires.
00:25:53.850 --> 00:25:57.550
I was eager to have a child.
00:25:59.050 --> 00:26:03.500
Everyone said,
after my accident in the camps,
00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:05.970
that I would never have a child.
00:26:06.520 --> 00:26:09.750
Because I was with my husband,
but I didn't get pregnant.
00:26:11.800 --> 00:26:13.720
But when we came to Argentina
00:26:14.170 --> 00:26:17.050
my uncles got me to a doctor,
00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:20.370
and he told me, "You will have a child."
00:26:32.300 --> 00:26:38.070
My son was born
on July the 24th,1950.
00:26:41.100 --> 00:26:42.700
Daniel Lázaro Rus,
00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:46.420
the greatest gift life gave me.
00:26:50.020 --> 00:26:51.800
And five years later,
00:26:52.100 --> 00:26:54.470
I could have my daughter, Natalia,
00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:56.350
and it was...
00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:01.370
a truly happy time.
We were a complete family.
00:27:01.420 --> 00:27:05.770
A family that was beginning
to live a normal life,
00:27:06.170 --> 00:27:09.350
to fight for a better life.
00:27:23.950 --> 00:27:26.950
Daniel had a Nikon camera,
really beautiful.
00:27:27.770 --> 00:27:29.820
It's still around, somewhere.
00:27:31.070 --> 00:27:33.850
It was his hobby.
He took pictures and developed them
00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:36.620
in an improvised dark room in his house.
00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:39.700
All that was lost to a flood.
00:27:41.150 --> 00:27:45.020
I would've liked to see those pictures,
to see through his eyes for a while.
00:27:47.270 --> 00:27:50.520
How do you remember something
that's impossible to tell about?
00:27:51.850 --> 00:27:55.450
How do you remember something
that was never told at all?
00:27:57.320 --> 00:27:58.970
MY FIFTEENTH BIRTHDAY
00:27:59.020 --> 00:28:03.220
Through the magic of movie-making
today we go back in time.
00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:08.370
It's Saturday, March 20th, 1971.
00:28:08.620 --> 00:28:11.820
It's Naty's fifteenth birthday.
00:28:18.850 --> 00:28:24.220
- Do you remember the party, mom?
- Oh, it was such a beautiful party!
00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:28.750
The queen has arrived!
00:28:29.850 --> 00:28:33.300
- Look!
- My mom! Oh my God!
00:28:33.450 --> 00:28:35.700
How old was Dany there?
00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:38.350
Five years older.
00:28:38.670 --> 00:28:40.370
- Twenty.
- Twenty?
00:28:40.550 --> 00:28:41.850
Look at grandma.
00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:45.500
- Look at her hair!
- No, that dress! I can't believe it.
00:28:46.750 --> 00:28:51.150
That hairdo was real?
I mean, was it your real hair?
00:28:51.250 --> 00:28:52.500
Yeah, it was real.
00:28:52.970 --> 00:28:56.300
- Everybody had a hairdo like it.
- Everyone's was the same, yes.
00:28:56.350 --> 00:28:58.870
It was in fashion then!
What did you expect?
00:29:00.100 --> 00:29:01.950
- What joy!
- Who are they?
00:29:02.070 --> 00:29:05.300
- Mom, the camera was always your thing.
- Yes, it was.
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:07.550
Did you see how
you just looked at the camera?
00:29:08.120 --> 00:29:09.700
Look, mom! Look!
00:29:11.820 --> 00:29:14.500
- Oh my God!
- That's great!
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:17.000
- Waving at the camera...
- Waving at the camera!
00:29:17.870 --> 00:29:19.060
That's great.
00:29:19.670 --> 00:29:20.900
And who is she, mom?
00:29:21.700 --> 00:29:24.420
These two were crashing your party.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.920
- I can't believe it.
- Yes.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.820
You remember even the ones
who crashed the party! Unbelievable.
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.050
Moskovitz brought them.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:42.250
- And you got so mad.
- I remember, I remember now.
00:29:42.670 --> 00:29:44.470
Oh, look!
00:29:45.970 --> 00:29:49.700
She was my friend
in the concentration camp.
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:54.870
We worked
at the airplane factory together.
00:29:56.220 --> 00:29:59.550
- And you met her again here in Argentina?
- Yes, yes.
00:30:04.170 --> 00:30:06.520
Everyone was at that party.
00:30:08.220 --> 00:30:12.900
They were my friends,
but none of them exist anymore.
00:30:30.820 --> 00:30:32.650
Oh, I'll get the spoons.
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:37.270
OK.
00:30:40.520 --> 00:30:43.150
- Want a sweet treat?
- No.
00:30:45.700 --> 00:30:50.300
I've several things on my mind, but...
00:30:50.800 --> 00:30:51.870
Actually...
00:30:53.350 --> 00:30:57.320
Thinking about how we always
talk about our family's story,
00:30:57.320 --> 00:31:01.270
because, truthfully, the family has
some kind of obsession over it.
00:31:01.970 --> 00:31:07.170
Over our history, over having
what happened always on our minds,
00:31:07.420 --> 00:31:11.220
we talk about it... too much, perhaps.
I don't know.
00:31:11.850 --> 00:31:13.020
It's like...
00:31:13.570 --> 00:31:19.350
There's like some sort of obsession
over keeping these memories...
00:31:20.550 --> 00:31:22.200
I thought that...
00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:27.550
On the one hand, it's that,
like, "why so much?"
00:31:27.620 --> 00:31:29.370
Because... isn't it too much?
00:31:29.770 --> 00:31:33.000
Too much Shoah all the time?
00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:38.920
So much talk about it, and...
00:31:39.700 --> 00:31:40.900
Too much, right?
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:44.800
I think that...
we always talk about it, right?
00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:48.020
That the survivors didn't talk.
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:50.020
- Right?
- Yes.
00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:52.870
It was hard for them,
and many of them still can't talk.
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:54.670
Grandma's not among them. Anyway.
00:31:55.970 --> 00:31:59.050
So at one point,
with this Spielberg project thing,
00:31:59.950 --> 00:32:02.270
there was a breaking point. I mean,
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:05.350
this project,
where they sat the survivors down
00:32:05.450 --> 00:32:08.650
and recorded them into a database,
and all that,
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:16.400
backed up by psychologists and everything,
it made them sit down and talk.
00:32:16.420 --> 00:32:20.750
And tell their whole stories,
from their childhood
00:32:21.250 --> 00:32:24.420
to the end of the war and beyond.
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:27.100
That made them start talking.
00:32:27.470 --> 00:32:33.470
And that start pushed the subject
into the households.
00:32:33.550 --> 00:32:34.870
So, well...
00:32:36.470 --> 00:32:42.120
And I think it's that. I feel the same
as you, it's like an obsession.
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:44.500
It's hard to get away from the subject.
00:32:44.800 --> 00:32:53.500
Every activity is about Shoah Day,
Victory in Europe Day, and all that.
00:32:54.820 --> 00:32:59.650
And honestly, it is kind of like that,
it's too much.
00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:02.650
We even pondered this in Generations,
00:33:02.820 --> 00:33:08.100
if people aren't getting sick
and tired of so much Shoah,
00:33:08.120 --> 00:33:10.270
if this isn't going to have
the opposite effect
00:33:10.270 --> 00:33:12.270
of no one wanting to know
anything about it.
00:33:12.470 --> 00:33:15.800
Anyway, there are always people
who never heard of it,
00:33:15.850 --> 00:33:19.220
schools that don't talk about the subject
and it's good for them.
00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:47.100
After our time in the ghetto,
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:52.570
they put people together in train cars,
00:33:52.800 --> 00:33:54.900
we had to present ourselves there,
00:33:54.970 --> 00:34:00.270
and the Germans were already
taking us to the death camps.
00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:06.450
The truth is my mom wasn't doing so well,
so they took her out,
00:34:06.550 --> 00:34:09.500
and they were separating us
in two groups, left and right,
00:34:09.570 --> 00:34:13.820
and my mother was in the left group
and I was in the right one, a little girl,
00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:18.150
well, not so little anymore,
but I looked younger than I was.
00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:21.650
So I approached the German,
00:34:21.850 --> 00:34:24.270
and he's holding a whip,
00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:27.220
and he says, "how dare you come up here?"
00:34:27.270 --> 00:34:30.520
and I answered in German,
"you took my mom away from me,"
00:34:31.120 --> 00:34:33.370
And he said, "oh? How come
you speak German?"
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:36.200
"In my house everyone speaks German."
"Yeah?"
00:34:36.350 --> 00:34:37.820
"Go look for your mother."
00:34:38.150 --> 00:34:41.450
So I was lucky enough
to get her to my side,
00:34:41.570 --> 00:34:44.070
and she spent
the rest of the time with me.
00:34:44.220 --> 00:34:50.600
So, we passed Auschwitz,
it was an awful time.
00:34:50.700 --> 00:34:53.850
Lying in the barracks,
00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:56.700
practically starving,
00:34:56.870 --> 00:35:02.200
they took our clothes,
they stripped all the women,
00:35:02.370 --> 00:35:05.850
and I had the luck of still
being able to be with my mother,
00:35:05.900 --> 00:35:11.300
who was a very skinny person, very thin.
00:35:11.500 --> 00:35:15.600
But through all this we were together
and gave each other warmth.
00:35:16.020 --> 00:35:18.850
And I want to show you something,
00:35:22.420 --> 00:35:29.370
I brought the two pots in which
my mother cooked for me in '45,
00:35:29.470 --> 00:35:31.920
they saved my life.
00:35:33.470 --> 00:35:38.250
These two pots survived along with me.
00:35:38.810 --> 00:35:40.930
DIANA WANG -- PRESIDENT
SHOAH'S GENERATIONS
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.170
Survivors...
00:35:43.020 --> 00:35:46.400
The victims of Shoah,
like the victims of any tragedy,
00:35:47.850 --> 00:35:53.670
one is walking, living their normal life,
and suddenly there's a hole.
00:35:54.020 --> 00:35:56.750
This thing that happens
is like a fall into a hole.
00:35:56.950 --> 00:35:59.870
You're falling, you're falling
and you don't know where it ends.
00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:02.770
You're falling, you're falling
and you can't find your footing,
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:07.720
you're desperate, because you can't breathe
00:36:07.870 --> 00:36:10.300
and there's nothing to hold onto.
00:36:11.270 --> 00:36:14.370
Three, four, five years of falling,
and falling, and falling...
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:18.420
You never get there,
there's no end in sight.
00:36:19.100 --> 00:36:22.220
And suddenly, just like it started,
one day you're out again.
00:36:22.300 --> 00:36:23.600
And you keep walking.
00:36:26.300 --> 00:36:32.200
That "walking", when you get out
of that deep, unnamed, endless hole,
00:36:33.120 --> 00:36:38.150
where you stopped being who you were
and were someone else's "thing",
00:36:38.220 --> 00:36:40.620
a thing that someone else handled
instead of you,
00:36:40.720 --> 00:36:42.020
When you get out,
00:36:42.870 --> 00:36:46.100
The thirst is about getting
your life back, of living again,
00:36:46.150 --> 00:36:48.920
of putting together what was lost.
00:36:50.450 --> 00:36:52.770
So, you had to put all of that in a bag.
00:36:54.750 --> 00:36:58.300
Jorge Semprún said it
when he wrote Literature or Life.
00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:02.370
"I had to choose whether
to write about what happened to me..."
00:37:02.500 --> 00:37:06.070
Because he was imprisoned in Buchenwald
for being a communist,
00:37:06.200 --> 00:37:09.270
"...whether to write about
what happened to me, or live.
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:13.170
And for 40 years I chose to live,
and just now I can write."
00:37:14.850 --> 00:37:21.900
So, suddenly Sarenka started to open
these stashed-away memories.
00:37:23.270 --> 00:37:25.050
And what does she do with them?
00:37:25.250 --> 00:37:26.950
And what she does is wonderful.
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:30.670
She doesn't let this story defeat her.
00:37:31.020 --> 00:37:34.520
She doesn't let herself be crushed
by the weight of what she lived through.
00:37:34.720 --> 00:37:37.150
And remembering constantly what she lost,
00:37:37.270 --> 00:37:40.400
and remembering constantly
what she lived through,
00:37:41.550 --> 00:37:48.650
she keeps giving out this message,
that one can keep going.
00:37:49.300 --> 00:37:51.570
It's up to you. It's up to what you do.
00:37:52.350 --> 00:37:54.550
When you stop being
someone else's subject,
00:37:54.670 --> 00:37:58.700
when you retake control of your life,
it's up to what you do.
00:38:18.020 --> 00:38:22.420
When you were freed... how was that day?
00:38:24.670 --> 00:38:25.950
How did you feel...
00:38:26.600 --> 00:38:29.770
That was... a date;
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:34.570
I was freed on the fifth day
of the fifth month of 1945.
00:38:36.170 --> 00:38:38.170
Very cabalistic.
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:42.050
But also, for me, it was an amazing date.
00:38:42.170 --> 00:38:43.200
Of course.
00:38:43.500 --> 00:38:44.870
Do you know why?
00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:47.250
I was in a ghetto, in Lodz,
00:38:48.670 --> 00:38:51.170
where I met a young man.
00:38:52.770 --> 00:38:58.850
I fell in love with him.
I was fourteen, and he was twenty-five.
00:39:00.470 --> 00:39:04.220
I felt grownup already,
because I had to work and fight.
00:39:05.870 --> 00:39:09.150
I told him I had family in Argentina,
00:39:09.570 --> 00:39:11.370
an uncle, my mom's brother.
00:39:12.220 --> 00:39:18.120
"And someday we'll travel there,
if we survive the war."
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:22.100
In the ghetto, the whole family
living in a small room.
00:39:22.600 --> 00:39:25.300
And this lad used to come to my house.
00:39:25.550 --> 00:39:28.250
"I'll write down a date for you.
Remember it."
00:39:29.270 --> 00:39:32.750
He wrote "5/5/45".
00:39:33.870 --> 00:39:41.350
If you survive this day, and I do too,
we'll meet in Buenos Aires,
00:39:41.370 --> 00:39:43.350
by the Kavanagh building.
00:39:44.300 --> 00:39:45.750
And I said, "What is this?"
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:47.650
And he said, "I read..."
00:39:48.350 --> 00:39:51.400
because he was a grownup lad,
he read a lot about Argentina,
00:39:51.470 --> 00:39:53.100
as he found it interesting,
00:39:53.300 --> 00:39:57.000
"I read that there's a building
in Buenos Aires, called Kavanagh,
00:39:57.370 --> 00:39:59.900
and I know that
it's one of the tallest ones,"
00:40:00.200 --> 00:40:04.220
In the year '44, you can imagine...
00:40:05.520 --> 00:40:11.750
"and there is where we'll meet up."
And that date got burned into my brain.
00:40:12.670 --> 00:40:16.250
I survived the war,
and was freed on that exact date.
00:40:16.770 --> 00:40:19.350
I found this young man and got married.
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:21.920
And he was my husband.
00:40:22.620 --> 00:40:25.900
And I had my two children with him.
00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:29.170
And did you come to see
the Kavanagh building?
00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:33.270
And we got here,
went to see the Kavanagh building,
00:40:33.670 --> 00:40:37.420
I still have to go with my children,
00:40:37.620 --> 00:40:40.620
as I didn't go with my daughter yet,
to stand in front of it,
00:40:40.820 --> 00:40:44.020
"this was the time to meet."
00:40:44.100 --> 00:40:46.400
And I'll take
my great-granddaughter there.
00:40:47.470 --> 00:40:51.750
So she sees where I met with
her grandfather, her great-grandfather.
00:40:54.900 --> 00:41:03.550
"Heritage is that which I can't appropriate."
-- JACQUES DERRIDA
00:41:14.900 --> 00:41:17.820
Doesn't something on that picture
catch your eye?
00:41:19.470 --> 00:41:24.150
- Well, it's interesting to me, at least.
- What do you see?
00:41:24.220 --> 00:41:28.850
- The scarf. The white scarf.
- Yes, it's true...
00:41:29.850 --> 00:41:32.670
I used to wear a white scarf.
00:41:32.850 --> 00:41:33.820
Yes.
00:41:33.970 --> 00:41:35.900
You know, I've never...
00:41:36.570 --> 00:41:41.220
I saw it as a normal thing,
as a thing I wore to work on the play,
00:41:41.600 --> 00:41:44.100
and you made me see, now...
00:41:44.450 --> 00:41:48.100
that I wore a white scarf to work.
00:41:52.470 --> 00:41:54.570
Here is my scarf...
00:42:05.120 --> 00:42:09.120
Daniel's pictures and the Mothers
of Plaza de Mayo-Founding Line,
00:42:10.270 --> 00:42:11.920
and I take this with me.
00:42:12.950 --> 00:42:15.350
I'll put in on my lapel,
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.800
and... well.
00:42:22.350 --> 00:42:27.800
03-24-2016
40 YEARS AFTER THE COUP
00:42:28.900 --> 00:42:32.900
- The Mothers are over there, De Mayo Ave.
- Yeah, exactly.
00:42:33.470 --> 00:42:35.220
I want us to meet...
00:43:07.620 --> 00:43:10.800
- Thank you so much.
- Thank you, for being with us.
00:43:16.170 --> 00:43:20.310
The Mothers are over there,
at the corner on De Mayo Ave.
00:43:40.350 --> 00:43:44.100
Oh my God, what is happening to me?
00:43:44.600 --> 00:43:48.320
Are you sure you don't want to remove
your coat? It's very hot in the sun.
00:43:54.930 --> 00:43:56.560
Oh my God.
00:44:00.640 --> 00:44:05.930
EVERYTHING IS STORED
IN MY MEMORY
00:44:15.150 --> 00:44:19.170
NAVAL SCHOOL OF MECHANICS
00:44:19.250 --> 00:44:22.500
It's too hard for me
to pass by this place.
00:44:22.820 --> 00:44:29.570
Across the street from here were
the Atomic Commission headquarters,
00:44:29.670 --> 00:44:31.870
where my son worked.
00:44:32.520 --> 00:44:35.770
With rear admiral Castro Madero,
who was the boss.
00:44:38.570 --> 00:44:45.070
He met with us
and it was shameful how he treated us.
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:52.300
And when I pass by here,
and I'm inside, I have my son on my mind.
00:44:53.750 --> 00:44:56.020
That's right.
00:45:03.140 --> 00:45:08.310
ATOMIC ENERGY NATIONAL COMMISSION
00:45:08.570 --> 00:45:10.070
He didn't know anything.
00:45:10.700 --> 00:45:12.750
No one knew anything.
00:45:17.820 --> 00:45:19.400
What can we do.
00:45:23.060 --> 00:45:24.430
MEMORY
00:45:24.890 --> 00:45:26.310
TRUTH
00:45:26.430 --> 00:45:27.930
JUSTICE
00:45:30.670 --> 00:45:38.170
It must be very hard to have lived
through the Second World War,
00:45:39.570 --> 00:45:43.170
to live in the ghetto,
in the concentration camp,
00:45:43.220 --> 00:45:45.170
- to lose...
- I was in Auschwitz.
00:45:45.650 --> 00:45:48.570
- To lose... family.
- All my family.
00:45:50.120 --> 00:45:52.700
And then, to relive everything
00:45:53.670 --> 00:45:57.650
in a phenomenon
with such similar characteristics.
00:45:58.470 --> 00:46:00.020
Unfortunately.
00:46:00.670 --> 00:46:04.750
I found concentration camps
here in Argentina!
00:46:05.550 --> 00:46:08.500
Thinking about this, me, personally,
00:46:09.020 --> 00:46:13.100
having been treated
in such a terrible way by the Nazis...
00:46:15.370 --> 00:46:18.320
Without food, hungry...
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:21.250
practically naked,
00:46:21.750 --> 00:46:25.070
in the barracks in Birkenau Auschwitz...
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:32.670
And to think my son could go through
the same thing as me, my God.
00:46:35.620 --> 00:46:38.200
We started running through...
00:46:39.170 --> 00:46:40.570
through the Ministry...
00:46:42.750 --> 00:46:43.700
of...
00:46:45.220 --> 00:46:47.950
let's see... General Harguindeguy was there.
00:46:50.970 --> 00:46:52.750
They mocked us.
00:46:53.820 --> 00:46:58.650
"Your son eloped with a girl,
and you come to look for him here."
00:46:59.700 --> 00:47:05.450
I knew my son wouldn't elope
without telling his parents first.
00:47:07.520 --> 00:47:09.050
He was a sensible man.
00:47:11.300 --> 00:47:14.820
What I felt... We lived in a house,
00:47:15.550 --> 00:47:17.420
and I never talked about this before.
00:47:19.200 --> 00:47:22.200
I was so desperate,
00:47:23.270 --> 00:47:25.050
that I went up to the roof,
00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:30.150
because I thought
that he trusted so much in me...
00:47:31.170 --> 00:47:38.720
that... as I am this war survivor mother
who fought so much for her survival,
00:47:39.100 --> 00:47:42.420
surely she could do something for me.
But I couldn't.
00:47:43.470 --> 00:47:45.200
I went up to the roof,
00:47:46.270 --> 00:47:48.120
and shouted so much,
00:47:48.670 --> 00:47:50.350
to see if he could hear me.
00:47:56.350 --> 00:47:59.870
And to those shouts...
there was no answer.
00:48:10.520 --> 00:48:14.670
This is Bernardo Rus' article,
that got published twice.
00:48:14.820 --> 00:48:18.750
This is the second time,
after his passing.
00:48:19.200 --> 00:48:22.750
The epigraph, written by me, says:
00:48:23.120 --> 00:48:27.900
Bernardo Rus was one of the many
Holocaust survivors
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.500
who got to our shores
to rebuild their lives.
00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:34.750
Here he lived with his wife
and had children.
00:48:35.450 --> 00:48:40.500
One of them, Daniel Lázaro,
is currently detained and missing
00:48:40.550 --> 00:48:45.670
since July the 15th, 1977, at 14:30,
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:51.060
when he was abducted from his workplace,
the Atomic Energy National Commission.
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:55.720
Bernardo Rus,
perhaps because his heart couldn't take
00:48:55.820 --> 00:48:58.250
so much injustice and pain anymore,
00:48:58.470 --> 00:49:00.620
it stopped beating some weeks ago.
00:49:01.250 --> 00:49:06.000
Today, in his honor, because he fought
with tooth and nail to find his son,
00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:12.720
we publish this dramatic missive that,
dated on August the 5th, 1977,
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:19.320
he sent the then President,
lieutenant-general Jorge Rafael Videla.
00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:22.370
It's our understanding that
this isn't just a homage,
00:49:22.520 --> 00:49:24.850
but an exceptional document
in its own right.
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:31.250
Next is Bernardo Rus' text,
in which he tells where he came from,
00:49:31.520 --> 00:49:35.470
the horror he endured in the Shoah,
his mother murdered by the Nazis,
00:49:35.570 --> 00:49:39.070
and now he has to live through this,
his son's disappearance.
00:49:40.220 --> 00:49:41.850
His writing is impressive.
00:49:42.220 --> 00:49:46.670
Besides, he nourished himself...
I remember how he sat at the dinner table,
00:49:47.650 --> 00:49:52.800
he started to write, first with a pen
and then in his typewriter,
00:49:53.020 --> 00:49:53.870
Yeah.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:58.250
Covered with books, like...
he nourished himself with them,
00:49:58.370 --> 00:50:03.700
he always puts in philosophical phases,
and famous quotes,
00:50:04.100 --> 00:50:08.700
and it was like... "wow!"
like that famous letter we wrote to Videla,
00:50:10.650 --> 00:50:11.770
I always...
00:50:12.520 --> 00:50:18.870
I'm very sorry
you didn't get to meet him. Well.
00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:20.170
Anyway.
00:50:21.600 --> 00:50:22.520
Yeah.
00:50:24.100 --> 00:50:27.600
- There are many things to relate to.
- You're very like him. Very.
00:50:28.250 --> 00:50:29.400
Amazing.
00:50:31.220 --> 00:50:32.270
Anyway.
00:50:32.470 --> 00:50:40.470
There's something about the way he writes,
00:50:41.150 --> 00:50:46.400
and I take notice of that, like
"oh, look how much thought he put into it"
00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:51.300
You can tell every word was thought out,
analized, and it's...
00:50:52.550 --> 00:50:55.720
He worked on it in a literary sense.
00:50:55.750 --> 00:51:00.120
I mean... I relate to those things.
00:51:00.350 --> 00:51:04.100
- What did you feel reading this?
- I feel connected...
00:51:04.700 --> 00:51:11.970
Perhaps because he's not here
and imagination plays a larger role there,
00:51:12.170 --> 00:51:17.950
I feel more connected with the story
than with Grandma's testimony,
00:51:18.020 --> 00:51:22.100
that is more of an everyday thing,
because I listen to her,
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:25.200
and spend time with her,
and she's always telling her story,
00:51:25.300 --> 00:51:28.270
and if there's a dinner
she's constantly telling us stories...
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:34.370
She's very close. His absence,
instead, makes me connect with it,
00:51:34.470 --> 00:51:38.700
like, "what's his side of the story,
00:51:38.750 --> 00:51:41.500
that Grandma can't tell us about,
but it happened."
00:51:42.050 --> 00:51:43.180
In some way.
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:54.870
"To live is to build future memories."
-- ERNESTO SÁBATO
00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:07.850
Look at Dad!
He was so handsome in this party.
00:52:08.600 --> 00:52:12.120
My husband didn't know how to dance,
but he danced with me anyway.
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.170
I led him, making it seem
like he was leading me.
00:52:17.850 --> 00:52:20.420
And then women came to him,
00:52:21.050 --> 00:52:24.700
"Why don't you dance with me?"
"No, I don't feel like it."
00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:27.270
He was afraid of saying
he didn't know how.
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:30.600
And after midnight...
00:52:32.300 --> 00:52:34.670
The fifteenth-birthday waltz.
00:52:34.950 --> 00:52:41.520
- You're waltzing with Dad there!
- Serious, because if he got distracted...
00:52:41.700 --> 00:52:43.920
- No, he was pretty good!
- Pretty good, yes.
00:52:43.970 --> 00:52:45.670
He danced pretty well.
00:52:45.700 --> 00:52:48.170
- Did you practice?
- Of course!
00:52:48.270 --> 00:52:50.920
- Was it normal to practice that, then?
- Yeah.
00:52:51.900 --> 00:52:54.050
He was so proud...
00:52:56.750 --> 00:52:57.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:05.850
- Oh no, my God!
- Beno's looking sharp.
00:53:06.520 --> 00:53:07.620
Beno?
00:53:08.120 --> 00:53:10.470
- Yes.
- Yes, well, he was a good host.
00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:15.350
Look at dad with a cigarette,
did you see that, mom?
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:18.550
Did you know that man in the middle?
00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:20.170
Smoking killed him.
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:23.920
- Srulik lights up...
- He lights up dad's cigarette.
00:53:23.970 --> 00:53:25.620
So, they both died because of it.
00:53:25.770 --> 00:53:28.000
Both of them holding a cigarette.
00:53:28.150 --> 00:53:30.650
- And Dany? Did he smoke?
- No, he never did.
00:53:31.120 --> 00:53:35.370
- Dany was pretty small, he wasn't so big!
- He was always on the small side.
00:53:35.500 --> 00:53:38.600
- I mean you always describe him tall.
- No, he was always short.
00:53:38.670 --> 00:53:41.020
He was taller than dad.
00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:42.920
- OK.
- A little bit.
00:53:42.950 --> 00:53:44.370
But he wasn't very big.
00:53:44.450 --> 00:53:47.670
The Rus' Family never stood out
because of their stature.
00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:51.250
- OK. Neither did the Scheinkopfs.
- Neither did the Scheinkopfs.
00:53:53.420 --> 00:53:55.100
- Oh, God.
- Look at Dany!
00:53:55.220 --> 00:53:58.920
- See him biting his lower lip?
- Yeah, like a nervous tic.
00:53:58.970 --> 00:54:02.700
Like a tic, because he didn't
give a damn about any of this.
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:08.350
This one! See that brunette
in the pink dress? She liked Dany.
00:54:09.150 --> 00:54:11.650
Mirta... I can't remember her last name.
00:54:13.500 --> 00:54:17.120
He was pretty successful with women.
00:54:18.670 --> 00:54:19.650
Really.
00:54:19.750 --> 00:54:20.700
He was cute.
00:54:20.750 --> 00:54:24.370
The neighboring moms
drove me crazy about him.
00:54:25.170 --> 00:54:27.570
Their daughters were in love...
00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:32.270
but didn't dare to say it,
so their mothers called me.
00:54:34.170 --> 00:54:36.650
Unbelievable.
00:54:41.850 --> 00:54:44.320
I'm dancing with Daniel...
00:54:45.270 --> 00:54:47.890
What do you feel, grandma?
Seeing Dany there?
00:54:48.200 --> 00:54:53.520
I feel like... like I can't breathe.
00:55:27.470 --> 00:55:32.250
I sometimes think about the uselessness
of memories that are put away so neatly.
00:55:36.500 --> 00:55:38.050
I don't know, I have them.
00:55:38.520 --> 00:55:41.320
When I'm gone all of this is going to...
00:55:46.550 --> 00:55:50.170
- No one will keep this.
- You think no one will keep it?
00:55:50.350 --> 00:55:51.350
What?
00:55:52.570 --> 00:55:55.700
I don't know what for,
but I always keep these things.
00:55:56.950 --> 00:56:03.220
These books by professor Jones,
who was crazy about Daniel.
00:56:03.820 --> 00:56:10.550
When he was 12 years old,
my son did a presentation with a... a...
00:56:10.820 --> 00:56:16.870
with a... how do you call it?
Like a folder. A huge presentation sheet,
00:56:17.520 --> 00:56:21.270
with the topic "The Atom and
the Atomic Sciences". Twelve years old.
00:56:22.420 --> 00:56:24.320
The Atom and the Atomic Sciences.
00:56:24.770 --> 00:56:30.350
All the older children,
from 5th and 6th grade came over,
00:56:30.570 --> 00:56:33.920
and the professor invited
all the teachers, too.
00:56:34.870 --> 00:56:39.020
So Daniel could do his presentation.
00:56:39.850 --> 00:56:41.270
They couldn't believe it.
00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:45.620
And in the end, he pursued a career
in physics and atomic sciences.
00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:51.100
And Daniel started to interest himself
in this since he was little.
00:56:51.250 --> 00:56:54.220
And he got into the Atomic Commission,
00:56:55.370 --> 00:56:56.820
He worked there.
00:57:01.300 --> 00:57:02.600
All that, and for what?
00:57:04.250 --> 00:57:06.870
26 years old. How unfair.
00:57:09.450 --> 00:57:13.400
But during those 26 years he lived,
he gave me so much joy...
00:57:13.560 --> 00:57:26.120
VICTIMS OF THE STATE TERRORISM
FROM OUR SCHOOL
00:57:26.520 --> 00:57:30.070
But... don't they talk about both of us
in the same way at home?
00:57:31.450 --> 00:57:39.250
No, I think that... Grandma's opinion
about Dany is very respected,
00:57:39.850 --> 00:57:46.370
and in this case, that's so recent
and you lived it, dad lived it...
00:57:46.670 --> 00:57:52.420
And there are many more
living people who can talk about it,
00:57:52.570 --> 00:57:56.450
no one talks about it anyway.
00:57:57.070 --> 00:57:58.500
As if...
00:57:59.300 --> 00:58:09.650
As if they stuck with the frozen image
of the one that's missing,
00:58:09.720 --> 00:58:16.470
and they don't challenge that view
with other perspectives,
00:58:17.220 --> 00:58:23.770
and it makes me wonder about this.
What other perceptions of Dany are there?
00:58:24.850 --> 00:58:30.550
Well, you know,
when grandma talks about Dany...
00:58:30.570 --> 00:58:31.620
Yeah, I know.
00:58:31.650 --> 00:58:34.420
She talks about a Dany that,
when they ask me,
00:58:34.420 --> 00:58:37.020
I feel like we remember
two different people.
00:58:39.950 --> 00:58:41.750
It's like that, I mean...
00:58:42.700 --> 00:58:44.700
You know,
Dany was a little taller than me.
00:58:45.770 --> 00:58:48.750
And to grandma, I feel like
he's getting taller and taller.
00:58:49.070 --> 00:58:51.700
I feel him bigger,
00:58:51.950 --> 00:58:56.000
heavier, like she's swelling
his image over time.
00:58:57.270 --> 00:59:00.800
He was always a smart kid,
but he's getting smarter and smarter.
00:59:00.820 --> 00:59:02.270
Grandma's speech is like...
00:59:03.020 --> 00:59:10.870
I always think about it,
and it surprises me, this thing...
00:59:11.500 --> 00:59:19.050
of wanting Dany to be the best student,
the University's brilliant mind,
00:59:19.120 --> 00:59:21.720
He was a smart kid, but...
00:59:22.200 --> 00:59:28.300
I have an image of Dany,
and it's not the same grandma has,
00:59:28.350 --> 00:59:32.950
the one she's been building
and rebuilding...
00:59:33.100 --> 00:59:36.000
He's bigger and better with time.
00:59:36.050 --> 00:59:39.570
She built it and she can't accept
it's different.
00:59:39.570 --> 00:59:41.820
- Right.
- That's very hard.
00:59:46.050 --> 00:59:52.670
What did you feel when you fought,
when you protested,
00:59:52.750 --> 00:59:56.600
when you marched down Plaza de Mayo,
or traveled around the world
00:59:56.620 --> 00:59:58.600
exposing initiatives and testimonies?
00:59:58.870 --> 01:00:03.250
What did you feel about
not being listened to
01:00:03.270 --> 01:00:07.370
by the judicial system
in your own country?
01:00:07.550 --> 01:00:11.200
And also, what did you feel
when that was finally possible?
01:00:13.700 --> 01:00:16.600
I'll give you a small bit of information.
01:00:19.100 --> 01:00:22.170
My husband got sick,
01:00:25.370 --> 01:00:28.250
in 1983.
01:00:31.450 --> 01:00:35.070
Before democracy was restored.
01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:38.670
Democracy is restored,
01:00:40.150 --> 01:00:41.670
he's very sick.
01:00:43.870 --> 01:00:45.250
And he says,
01:00:46.720 --> 01:01:00.200
"if six months into democracy don't bring
news about my son, my life is worthless."
01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:04.200
"I don't think I'll live six months."
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:10.050
He gave himself six months to live
in democracy, and he died when they ended.
01:01:11.150 --> 01:01:13.400
Because he hadn't gotten news
about his son.
01:01:17.720 --> 01:01:19.270
We felt...
01:01:19.700 --> 01:01:21.150
I felt...
01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:25.220
abandoned.
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:32.120
What happened with our children?
We didn't get an answer.
01:01:34.520 --> 01:01:36.700
And we're still waiting.
01:01:38.220 --> 01:01:41.570
Because there's some news
from time to time.
01:01:43.020 --> 01:01:44.620
Some pits...
01:01:45.150 --> 01:01:48.350
There were pits where they killed people.
01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:52.520
We'll never get back
the ones they threw down the river.
01:01:53.870 --> 01:01:55.600
But some bodies...
01:01:55.900 --> 01:02:00.420
If we could find at least some of them,
01:02:01.250 --> 01:02:03.170
so we could give them...
01:02:04.550 --> 01:02:06.350
a proper burial.
01:02:07.970 --> 01:02:09.450
Will we get to that?
01:02:25.670 --> 01:02:28.220
It was easy to find, if you must know.
01:02:28.270 --> 01:02:31.700
This Senku is really large
in my memory, on the table.
01:02:31.870 --> 01:02:37.150
Like a thing that was there
and I'd ask what was it,
01:02:37.350 --> 01:02:40.170
and you'd tell me it was Dany's.
Right? Something like that.
01:02:40.250 --> 01:02:43.670
Isn't it amazing that
there's no missing pieces?
01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:49.400
I remember having written
about this at some point...
01:02:50.550 --> 01:02:55.950
About how in this game there's also
an empty space in the middle, like...
01:02:56.850 --> 01:02:59.570
- air, emptiness, I don't know...
- A gaping hole.
01:02:59.700 --> 01:03:03.150
A gaping hole
related to the family history.
01:03:03.220 --> 01:03:08.670
And I thought about how sometimes
that prompts the memory,
01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:13.220
Actually it's like it is missing a piece,
if you ask me.
01:03:13.950 --> 01:03:19.770
It's missing a piece and everything
starts to move because of it.
01:03:20.100 --> 01:03:21.620
Yeah... Yes, yes.
01:03:22.220 --> 01:03:24.670
It's like... a different kind of missing.
01:03:25.220 --> 01:03:28.100
- Yeah...
- It's not the same if it's a death...
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:33.700
than if it's a disappearance.
A disappearance invokes this feeling of...
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:40.000
I don't know. I still feel...
01:03:41.220 --> 01:03:44.400
- You know...
- Yeah, that there's no body...
01:03:44.470 --> 01:03:51.270
There's no body and there's this fight
to recover the remains...
01:03:51.600 --> 01:03:54.420
I'm really struggling with that.
01:03:56.220 --> 01:04:00.550
There's so much work being done,
with the anthropologists, to recover...
01:04:00.700 --> 01:04:03.650
And the big question for me is...
01:04:04.770 --> 01:04:08.220
What would I do if the remains
are found, how would I feel?
01:04:08.370 --> 01:04:11.450
I mean, I want them to be found...
01:04:12.650 --> 01:04:16.700
But the remains are it,
they're evidence of...
01:04:17.550 --> 01:04:21.520
Even if one knows he won't
just show up, deep down it's like...
01:04:21.670 --> 01:04:25.970
The remains are it. They're the end.
They're closure.
01:04:25.970 --> 01:04:31.850
And many want that, closure.
I'm in terrible inner conflict.
01:04:33.820 --> 01:04:35.170
I don't know...
01:04:37.120 --> 01:04:39.050
It'll hurt me a lot, but...
01:04:39.500 --> 01:04:41.120
Perhaps it's necessary, I don't know.
01:04:41.970 --> 01:04:45.700
I don't know. It depends on how
each of us has buried him already.
01:05:08.970 --> 01:05:18.400
Like it happened with the Nazis,
wherever you end up we'll get you!
01:05:28.100 --> 01:05:37.000
Like it happened with the Nazis,
wherever you end up we'll get you!
01:05:47.870 --> 01:05:51.300
Mothers of the Plaza!
The people embrace you!
01:05:51.600 --> 01:05:54.850
Mothers of the Plaza!
The people embrace you!
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.650
Mothers of the Plaza!
The people embrace you!
01:05:58.770 --> 01:06:02.120
Mothers of the Plaza!
The people embrace you!
01:06:05.300 --> 01:06:07.350
When does a "disappeared" die?
01:06:08.850 --> 01:06:10.970
I don't know. Perhaps never.
01:06:12.450 --> 01:06:16.950
Or should I turn the question around?
How long does he stay alive?
01:06:18.050 --> 01:06:21.270
They remain in a kind of time
outside of time.
01:06:25.470 --> 01:06:29.430
- Thank you.
- Thank you for being here with us.
01:06:32.060 --> 01:06:33.140
Thank you.
01:06:38.350 --> 01:06:39.520
Thank you.
01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:42.770
Can I take a picture with you?
You're a role model!
01:06:44.250 --> 01:06:46.270
- Thank you!
- There's no need.
01:06:49.770 --> 01:06:53.250
My husband helped me,
01:06:53.670 --> 01:06:57.420
because he let me go to Plaza de Mayo,
he let me do things.
01:06:57.450 --> 01:07:00.900
And he did things from home, too.
01:07:01.020 --> 01:07:04.500
He wrote letters to everyone
about what happened,
01:07:04.750 --> 01:07:09.650
About what happened to us
and about what happened to Daniel,
01:07:09.870 --> 01:07:12.270
Our story is twofold.
01:07:12.700 --> 01:07:16.950
And we have to bear with it,
we have to survive it.
01:07:18.070 --> 01:07:19.320
We have to.
01:07:19.820 --> 01:07:21.050
You know?
01:07:21.920 --> 01:07:23.900
That's what happens in life.
01:07:24.820 --> 01:07:29.270
So if some people tell me,
"OK, enough, stop talking,
01:07:29.500 --> 01:07:32.270
it's not important anymore.
You have other things now."
01:07:33.350 --> 01:07:36.970
I say to them, "everything is important.
01:07:37.320 --> 01:07:41.150
But memory is the most important thing."
01:07:43.050 --> 01:07:44.500
That's what I think.
01:07:45.020 --> 01:07:47.350
I always talk about life.
01:07:49.620 --> 01:07:55.950
If I live...
I deeply believe in human fate.
01:07:58.150 --> 01:08:02.570
Fate wanted me to live,
and there must be a reason for it, I did.
01:08:03.170 --> 01:08:06.870
I don't talk about it much,
but they tell me,
01:08:07.050 --> 01:08:11.800
"You're alive
because you have a mission."
01:08:13.250 --> 01:08:16.650
"It's a very important mission," they say.
01:08:17.570 --> 01:08:25.400
OK, but anyway, I don't think...
I think that survival in those cases...
01:08:26.450 --> 01:08:28.450
is just mere luck.
01:08:29.100 --> 01:08:35.850
- It's fate. I believe in fate.
- Yeah, there's no choice in the matter.
01:08:35.970 --> 01:08:42.220
That happened, it was fortuitous,
mere chance.
01:08:42.320 --> 01:08:48.250
Well, fortuitously I didn't get taken
to the ovens, and others were.
01:08:49.100 --> 01:08:53.270
So, like your grandma used to say,
"there's an angel protecting us."
01:08:53.570 --> 01:08:57.850
She liked to think that
there's an angel protecting us,
01:08:58.200 --> 01:09:04.050
so I, to appease her,
always used to say to her,
01:09:04.270 --> 01:09:09.070
"If you believe in an angel,
thank him for us still being around."
01:09:09.270 --> 01:09:10.550
Really.
01:09:11.020 --> 01:09:12.320
You see?
01:09:13.570 --> 01:09:16.900
So, it's mere chance.
01:09:17.300 --> 01:09:20.420
I believe in fate and in chance.
01:09:20.850 --> 01:09:25.950
We survived, and here we are,
telling the story.
01:09:27.420 --> 01:09:30.120
I always say that life is beautiful.
01:09:31.770 --> 01:09:34.320
And we have to learn to appreciate it.
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:39.370
And how much life gave back to me.
01:09:40.250 --> 01:09:43.850
It gave me back my family.
01:09:45.170 --> 01:09:48.100
I have two granddaughters,
01:09:48.570 --> 01:09:50.500
and I get to be a great-grandmother.
01:09:51.100 --> 01:09:52.350
How about that?
01:09:54.150 --> 01:09:57.470
So, there's a force inside me,
01:09:58.620 --> 01:10:01.850
that even through everything,
I never give up.
01:10:03.170 --> 01:10:06.770
Wherever I'm called to,
I go to give my testimony.
01:10:07.670 --> 01:10:09.900
And I think my testimony...
01:10:11.050 --> 01:10:12.700
is very powerful.
01:10:14.020 --> 01:10:18.770
Because it's a double story,
very powerful,
01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:22.920
and people still ask me,
"How are you, how are you doing?"
01:10:24.200 --> 01:10:30.070
And it's this, "I try to remain strong
to pass it on to you,"
01:10:30.150 --> 01:10:31.850
I speak to the young people.
01:10:32.100 --> 01:10:34.170
Because there's so few of us left!
01:10:34.520 --> 01:10:37.050
There's not many of us left
to pass on the story.
01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:40.900
The few of us who remain try to do it.
01:10:41.600 --> 01:10:46.820
And I still feel, at my age,
pretty strong.
01:10:50.200 --> 01:10:58.400
I know that everything I said
and feel gets to your hearts.
01:10:59.250 --> 01:11:04.100
And my life, my entire life,
I live with joy.
01:11:04.150 --> 01:11:06.370
I live joyfully.
01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:09.950
Because I don't forget
what I've been through,
01:11:10.120 --> 01:11:13.100
but I pass on to the younger generations
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:17.670
that there's a life,
and we have to fight for it.
01:11:18.100 --> 01:11:22.820
Now I'm waiting for twins
from my granddaughter.
01:11:23.020 --> 01:11:29.450
So, picture what it means to me
to receive another two lives...
01:11:29.770 --> 01:11:36.050
And I hope to be here still
and be able to receive them in my arms.
01:11:36.120 --> 01:11:37.320
Thank you.
01:12:00.750 --> 01:12:05.300
Two words stick with me
from my notebook, "exile" and "roots".
01:12:06.300 --> 01:12:11.300
Behind those words
there's a mix of textures, fibers, edges...
01:12:12.200 --> 01:12:16.180
Roots get destroyed and regrow,
branch out...
01:12:16.320 --> 01:12:21.000
They're alive, organic,
permanently exiled from themselves.
01:12:22.400 --> 01:12:26.430
And from exile one goes back
to one's roots, always in a different way.
01:12:26.470 --> 01:12:30.120
Towards new branches, broken,
supple or unknown.
01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:34.600
What is the precise distance
to the past?
01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:41.070
I don't know if it makes much sense,
but I can't refrain from asking.
01:13:28.146 --> 01:13:33.062
THE END
01:13:35.310 --> 01:13:39.810
MEMORY AND BEYOND
Distributor: Pragda Films
Length: 75 minutes
Date: 2018
Genre: Expository
Language: Spanish
Grade: High School, College, Adult
Color/BW:
Closed Captioning: Available
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