A chronicle of renowned Brazilian street artist Eduardo Kobra's evolution…
The Dreams of Others
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
View on the Pragda STREAM site
The Dreams of Others is the story of the last six decades of architecture and interior design in Spain. Sixty years that have had the will to realize or change the dreams of society. Works that design the stage of our lives, too often unnoticed, that sometimes we admire and others do not understand. The documentary is a critical reflection on the role of architecture in our society, on the evolution of the architect's figure and a look at what architecture is and where it is going.
Citation
Main credits
Campreciós, Xavi (film director)
Martín, Pep (film director)
Bustos, Judit (film producer)
Gray, Diane (film producer)
Solà-Morales, Pau de (film producer)
Other credits
Cinematography, Xavi Campreciós, Pep Martín, David Llibre; music, David Piñol.
Distributor subjects
Urban Studies; Education; Sociology; Catalan Studies; Iberian Studies; Visual ArtsKeywords
00:00:07.840 --> 00:00:10.000
- Does the camera
have a stabilizer?
00:00:10.040 --> 00:00:11.200
- No...
00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:15.520
Well, it's going to freak you
out, the place we are going to,
00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:19.720
you'll tell me in
a little while.
00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.600
I am very interested in it.
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:07.640
This is precisely the architecture
that I'm interested in photographing
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:10.440
and I'm interested
in documenting.
00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:16.160
It is an architecture that
probably will never enter
00:01:16.160 --> 00:01:20.320
the handbooks of
architecture history.
00:01:20.360 --> 00:01:24.480
No one, no architect can
be interested in this.
00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.600
In Spain during the
long era of Francoism
00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:36.400
there were different periods, even
different political affiliations,
00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:40.440
and also a different
presence of architecture.
00:01:40.520 --> 00:01:42.480
Even different national styles.
00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:44.280
Perhaps the most
significant thing
00:01:44.320 --> 00:01:46.880
is that modernity does
not begin with democracy,
00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:51.800
but that the seeds of that modernity
already existed in Francoism.
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:08.880
We think that totalitarian
regimes produced classicism
00:02:08.920 --> 00:02:10.440
and that is not entirely true.
00:02:10.480 --> 00:02:13.040
Italian fascism was modern,
we forget about that.
00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:17.120
That Italian rationalism,
originally fascist,
00:02:17.160 --> 00:02:19.560
Cabrero brings and
incorporates it,
00:02:19.600 --> 00:02:23.880
and makes a building that is probably
the most important of the decade.
00:02:31.880 --> 00:02:36.200
Finally, all these seeds of
renewal crystallized in the 60s,
00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:37.920
as in the case of
Torres Blancas,
00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:43.000
which was somewhat the icon of that
modernity of reinforced concrete,
00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.360
of the economic boom of the 60s.
00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:48.400
For many people,
what this tower was,
00:02:48.440 --> 00:02:51.000
on the way from the
airport to the city,
00:02:51.040 --> 00:02:54.560
was a symbol of an
optimistic modernity
00:02:54.600 --> 00:02:59.680
and that through reinforced concrete
it possessed a new formal freedom.
00:02:59.720 --> 00:03:05.560
To a large extent, steel and glass
had led to somewhat more abstract,
00:03:05.600 --> 00:03:09.520
parallelepiped buildings, but
concrete allowed for that condition.
00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:13.520
There is also that
moment of Neorealism,
00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:17.600
that first stage of
Bohigas and the Group R.
00:03:17.640 --> 00:03:19.960
And then, the great
School of Barcelona,
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:23.680
which was very important
because there was that desire
00:03:23.720 --> 00:03:28.760
to unite architecture with
a certain social commitment.
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:32.720
Thus, in public housing and housing
for the most humble sectors,
00:03:32.760 --> 00:03:36.880
it was where it could be
done more effectively.
00:03:36.920 --> 00:03:42.920
With that language partly
inherited from Italy,
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:46.400
which came from
Italian Neorealism.
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:55.080
In the art world of the
60s there are some trends:
00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.440
conceptual art, land art, etc.
00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:05.120
And one of them... the happening,
the performances, the fluxus...
00:04:05.160 --> 00:04:13.160
One of them, is to look for randomness
in the configuration of form.
00:04:13.160 --> 00:04:14.880
And what happens
in architecture?
00:04:14.920 --> 00:04:18.560
That people like Ricardo
Bofill and others
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:22.840
start to experiment with the
configuration of basic elements,
00:04:22.880 --> 00:04:29.440
basic houses, small-predefined houses,
and their spatial configuration.
00:04:29.440 --> 00:04:31.320
And they do it in a random way,
00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:36.520
they do it as a game of chance,
like John Cage's "I Ching".
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:38.960
And from that
comes the Walden 7.
00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:45.960
Walden 7 is the built architecture
of '68, of the youth revolution,
00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.800
of what hippies were in the US,
00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:51.840
and here they were these
movements that would end up
00:04:51.880 --> 00:04:55.960
crystallizing in the
French spring of '68.
00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:02.200
Walden 7 remains the best representation
of the youth revolution of '68.
00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:04.960
There will be those who are interested
in it and those who are not,
00:05:04.960 --> 00:05:06.160
those who like it
and those who do not,
00:05:06.200 --> 00:05:07.720
but it must be understood as
00:05:07.760 --> 00:05:12.600
an experiment in aggregation
of many houses in a random way.
00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:16.080
That is to say, on the one hand
we can have the Bellvitge blocks,
00:05:16.080 --> 00:05:19.240
where all the
apartments are the same,
00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:23.240
and on the other we have the Walden
7 where there is certain variability,
00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:27.040
some interior courtyards,
some ventilation systems.
00:05:27.080 --> 00:05:29.800
I think that as mass housing,
00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:34.880
if we accept the idea of mass housing,
it is an interesting proposal.
00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:37.640
In other words, the
ability of an architect
00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:41.960
to organize someone's
life is enormous.
00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:45.080
The architect configures
the interior of houses,
00:05:45.080 --> 00:05:47.440
talking about
residence, about home,
00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:51.280
with some patterns that I
think have to be reviewed.
00:05:51.320 --> 00:05:56.880
In fact, this space is the best proof of
the extent to which I am convinced of that.
00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:02.360
That is to say, this chopping-up of
the 60 square meter space of a house
00:06:02.400 --> 00:06:08.000
into hall, kitchen, dining
room, bathroom and 3 bedrooms,
00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:14.560
actually has to do with a perpetuation
of certain cerebral circuits,
00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:20.600
of certain habits, from which
it is very difficult to escape.
00:06:20.640 --> 00:06:25.440
And that is the interest
of the architect's trade:
00:06:25.440 --> 00:06:29.360
reshaping people's customs.
00:06:29.400 --> 00:06:34.560
In this sense I believe
there are architects
00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:39.480
who can be very interesting
and very good, very favorable,
00:06:39.520 --> 00:06:41.800
and conversely, others
can be very dangerous.
00:06:41.840 --> 00:06:45.560
The architect, obviously, needs
to organize. It is different.
00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.760
But the interior designer
needs to understand.
00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:52.240
Understand how that person lives,
and likes to live and likes to sleep.
00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:06.400
So an interior designer takes much
better care of you than an architect,
00:07:06.440 --> 00:07:08.360
the architect stays
in the first layer
00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:12.200
and the interior designer
reaches your deepest needs.
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:14.240
Sometimes I see the difference
between an architect
00:07:14.280 --> 00:07:16.280
and a decorator or
an interior designer,
00:07:16.320 --> 00:07:20.280
in that the architect is more
dogmatic and he tells you:
00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:21.560
this is what you need.
00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:24.360
The interior design
profession is an occupation
00:07:24.400 --> 00:07:27.800
where you know your client and
you become their psychologist.
00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:31.680
You have to ask them where
they put their panties,
00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:33.200
that is, in what drawer.
00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:37.520
Even these intimate facts, you need
to know to decorate their home.
00:07:37.520 --> 00:07:41.160
Normally, a good interior designer
has no identical interiors,
00:07:41.200 --> 00:07:43.200
they don't exist.
00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.160
Because each person
is a different world.
00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.480
In public spaces you are
generating almost a kind of set
00:07:48.520 --> 00:07:54.520
or scenery or story that
you will make the user live.
00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.240
However, the house has
nothing to do with that,
00:07:57.320 --> 00:08:00.640
it is a precise suit
tailored for the client.
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.320
Correa and Milá, for
me, are absolute models.
00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:13.840
For example, here we have
some fantastic examples,
00:08:13.880 --> 00:08:18.440
the Giardinetto and the Flash Flash as
restaurants, that are almost unrepeatable.
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.840
They occurred at a time when
there was no interior design
00:08:22.840 --> 00:08:25.520
in the hospitality sector
and they still exist,
00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:29.560
they have been operating for 40
years due to several factors,
00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:31.880
and one of them is
good interior design,
00:08:31.880 --> 00:08:34.200
or an interior design that
had not been done before.
00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:37.960
But also because behind it there
has to be a wonderful story to tell,
00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.600
because it is impossible for
someone to have come up with it...
00:08:41.640 --> 00:08:44.920
Where did they get the references,
where did they get all these things?
00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:49.440
Set up a garden with carpets
and this naive thing...
00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.080
However, it is wonderful.
00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:55.840
All the elements add up and make up
a wonderful and enveloping whole.
00:08:55.880 --> 00:08:57.600
And the Flash
Flash has the same,
00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:02.120
I think it collects all the
pop momentum of that time.
00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:06.640
And the interior design of
the Flash Flash is wonderful,
00:09:06.680 --> 00:09:12.880
because with just 4 things it is capable
of configuring a superb atmosphere.
00:09:12.880 --> 00:09:16.040
It has a wonderful narrative.
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:18.080
And these are the models,
00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.880
models that were already
influenced by modern architecture:
00:09:21.920 --> 00:09:23.560
Alvar Aalto would be one,
00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:30.600
in the sense of global architecture
that takes everything into account.
00:09:30.640 --> 00:09:33.480
He considers all parts of
the project or building,
00:09:33.520 --> 00:09:38.000
from the urban scale
to the door handle.
00:09:46.680 --> 00:09:49.720
In the 60s the Elisava
School is established,
00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:54.320
which is the first imitation
of the Bauhaus, quite complete.
00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.560
I think that the influence of
Alfonso Milá and Federico Correa,
00:09:57.560 --> 00:09:59.200
especially Federico Correa,
00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:05.800
who gave classes both at the Architecture
School and at the Elisava School,
00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:09.920
both of which also
work with Coderch,
00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:16.040
is that they have the strength
of transmiting to the students
00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:22.240
this taste for a fresh, not
overloaded, interior design.
00:10:22.280 --> 00:10:25.600
It evolved into
practically empty spaces
00:10:25.640 --> 00:10:28.800
with those objects
essential for living.
00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.000
I was absolutely part of it,
00:10:33.040 --> 00:10:35.280
Barcelona and the world were ours,
00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.160
we created the designs
or the interior spaces
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.200
thinking that we were kings
of the hill, it was brutal.
00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:21.440
The last years of Franco and
the years after his death,
00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:26.560
this regeneration had to take place
in an environment of social conflict,
00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.960
great economic shortage
and hyperinflation
00:11:36.280 --> 00:11:39.480
It's a very good thing that
we are following the bus.
00:11:39.520 --> 00:11:42.200
This driver is my hero.
00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.200
Now, let's see if I can park.
00:11:47.400 --> 00:11:49.640
There is no celebrity
architecture here.
00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:52.240
These are the buildings
where more people live
00:11:52.280 --> 00:11:56.360
and that are less considered,
less taken into account.
00:11:56.400 --> 00:12:01.680
These houses respond to a
particular social moment,
00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.400
to people who come
from outside Barcelona,
00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.040
who come from the countryside,
00:12:07.040 --> 00:12:12.120
who have had to leave
because they were starving
00:12:12.160 --> 00:12:17.720
and they had to come to the city,
where they were offered a job.
00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:22.680
But nobody took into account
where to house these people
00:12:22.680 --> 00:12:25.880
and they had to make
it on their own.
00:12:25.920 --> 00:12:27.920
And one of the
solutions is this.
00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:30.440
Well, I don't know if it's ugly.
00:12:30.520 --> 00:12:33.480
I don't think this is ugly.
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:39.960
I would argue against that
statement, this is not ugly.
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.400
In fact we have
passed by neighbors
00:12:44.400 --> 00:12:48.160
who were saying that they
would not change this place
00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:50.680
for anything in the world.
00:12:52.040 --> 00:12:58.680
The repetition of the same pattern
always has an aesthetic appeal.
00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:05.160
But here there's a repetition that
reflects the topography very well.
00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:08.040
They are also painted
with different colors.
00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:14.200
Somehow they refer to
that game of wood blocks
00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:18.520
that we all had as children.
00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:21.080
The act of playing
with wood blocks
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.760
in some way is what contributes,
00:13:24.800 --> 00:13:29.320
it might partly be an explanation
for the beauty of this place.
00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:31.440
There are many buildings
that are far more ugly
00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:36.000
and have names and
surnames, they are signed.
00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:41.160
And architecture could not produce
great buildings at that time,
00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.120
those that ended at that time
had been contracted before.
00:13:53.560 --> 00:13:57.560
The Bankinter building is a
watershed in Spanish architecture,
00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:58.920
for many reasons.
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:03.360
The essential thing is that
conventional modernity,
00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:06.600
which in Madrid had been
expressed through the fact that
00:14:06.640 --> 00:14:09.080
old palaces surrounded by
gardens were demolished
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.640
and office towers and bank headquarters
were built, that was modernity.
00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:16.600
Modernity was, instead of a
palace surrounded by gardens,
00:14:16.680 --> 00:14:22.360
making a glass tower for a great
economic or financial agent.
00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:25.880
And that is transformed
by Bankinter in two ways:
00:14:25.920 --> 00:14:27.680
first it preserves the palace,
00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:32.320
there is a new awareness
that heritage has value.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:37.800
And secondly, he builds it with that
patterned brick typical of Madrid,
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.120
which for many architects, was:
00:14:40.160 --> 00:14:41.960
how is a brick building
going to be modern?
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:46.400
Modern is glass, metal, concrete...
But brick?
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:50.600
It creates that giant order that
rises above the small palace
00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:54.400
and is seen from the other
side of the Castellana.
00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:57.360
In other words, it emerges,
but it emerges respectfully
00:14:57.400 --> 00:15:00.840
along the Castellana,
over what it protects.
00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:05.080
It gets in tune with what it
protects using similar materials.
00:15:05.160 --> 00:15:09.120
All this started a period
of respect for heritage,
00:15:09.160 --> 00:15:13.960
of reconstruction of urban
memory, which was essential.
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:18.280
That building for us was
the hinge between modernity
00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.440
understood as new
materials and new forms,
00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.040
and modernity understood as
respect for what already existed
00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:30.600
and of an intelligent dialogue
with the architectures of the past.
00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:35.280
Tradition is not ashes, it is
the continuity of the flame.
00:15:35.280 --> 00:15:40.880
That is what these architects,
correctly called postmodern,
00:15:40.920 --> 00:15:43.400
because it was what
came after modernity...
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:47.000
That postmodernity that
dialogues with the existing
00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:51.920
has Rafael Moneo as
its main defender,
00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:55.320
and the one that intellectually
articulates it best.
00:15:56.920 --> 00:16:02.480
I have always said that our
great teacher was Moneo,
00:16:02.520 --> 00:16:09.240
who taught us to think
architecture with capital letters.
00:16:09.280 --> 00:16:13.360
I have always said that Moneo
never treated us as students
00:16:13.400 --> 00:16:14.840
but as architects.
00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:19.000
He demanded that we know
what our responsibility was.
00:16:19.040 --> 00:16:25.320
Only the brief that he
put in the exercises,
00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.720
and just understanding the brief,
was an architecture lesson.
00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:31.760
And it was thought.
00:16:31.800 --> 00:16:35.240
You understood the
brief and you understood
00:16:35.280 --> 00:16:38.560
where the architecture is
going, what architecture is.
00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:45.360
The youth who graduate from the
schools in the late 60s and early 70s
00:16:45.400 --> 00:16:48.080
are very well
trained architects,
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:53.880
and with a very powerful
ability for political struggle.
00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:59.640
The architecture school was always
more associated to the left,
00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:05.080
to a more social
conscience, in those times.
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:08.000
We always had books.
00:17:08.040 --> 00:17:12.640
I remember that we always had
to carry a book in our hand.
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:17.000
This manifestation
of culture craving.
00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:20.440
That is the main vector,
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.760
the main force that then
drives all this forward
00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:31.560
when suddenly local governments,
democratic municipalities
00:17:31.600 --> 00:17:40.120
and autonomies begin to provide money
and believe in these architects,
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.280
and add some of these
architects to their ranks.
00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:45.760
And this is the same as
the "Movida Madrileña",
00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:49.760
like Spanish cinema,
it suddenly rises,
00:17:49.800 --> 00:17:53.680
because when you stop squeezing
something that is compressed it explodes.
00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:04.640
It looks like quite
a normal square,
00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:06.520
it doesn't have much...
I don't know...
00:18:06.560 --> 00:18:08.640
As a square it has nothing.
00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.960
For us, in the neighborhood,
it has absolutely nothing.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.840
We don't like it.
00:18:13.840 --> 00:18:15.720
I find it very cold.
00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:19.080
I know that it is OK for
those who ride a skateboard
00:18:19.080 --> 00:18:22.640
because they go
jumping around but...
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.680
I like the square, I
would leave it like this.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:27.480
It is a hard square,
00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:30.600
and I would like that there be a
little more green, vegetation...
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.640
When a square is
cozy, people say
00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:34.800
"let's go to the square for
a while and walk around".
00:18:34.840 --> 00:18:36.280
I have never seen anyone here.
00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:39.360
It is soulless and
badly finished.
00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:42.680
This, architecturally,
has absolutely nothing.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.440
Man, a little more green,
give it a little more spice.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.920
The truth is that it seems to
me that I could do this too.
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:52.560
Architects should know how to do
it differently, and not like this.
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:58.080
But when you go by there and
stand under that pallium,
00:18:58.120 --> 00:18:59.800
what do you feel?
00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:01.840
Why do you have
to do an activity,
00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:03.680
why do you have to go
there to play with a ball?
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.240
I mean, if you go there and feel
something, that's a lot, right?
00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:11.760
The thing is that we are
always very tied to activity,
00:19:11.800 --> 00:19:13.480
to movement, to
who knows what...
00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:15.920
If we are not doing
something it is not...
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:21.720
Can’t we feel and let a space transmit
a lot of things? Isn't this a lot?
00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:25.680
I believe that this square has simply
never been understood like this.
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:35.120
People were still waiting for a green
surface to lie down to sunbathe.
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:41.000
I think you have to
distrust first impressions.
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.400
That is, it is interesting to
understand what was there before,
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:51.240
what was the program attended to
by the architecture professionals.
00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:58.520
What I mean to say is that "I like it,
I don't like it" is ultimately not valid.
00:19:58.560 --> 00:20:02.480
It is a slab, a platform
that covers the train tracks,
00:20:02.520 --> 00:20:06.640
of a very fine thickness that
cannot withstand large traffic,
00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.080
or a parking lot, or
land to put trees.
00:20:10.120 --> 00:20:15.680
Secondly, the architecture of
the late 70s and early 80s,
00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:20.720
starts to look for ways of
artificialization of nature
00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:25.480
with this abstraction typical
of the most modern art.
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:29.680
With a new language, it
generates a series of spaces
00:20:29.760 --> 00:20:32.440
that you can truly
end up enjoying.
00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:35.600
And what we could say is that
maybe it shakes people up,
00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.640
due to the fact that
they don't recognize,
00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:39.640
through this language,
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:44.080
the shade that some
trees give, the bench...
00:20:44.120 --> 00:20:47.120
What do you want
to give to people?
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:53.080
A spiritual space or do you want to
give them the world's softest sofa?
00:20:53.120 --> 00:20:56.360
Not everything has to be
sweet and comfortable.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.120
All of this is OK, but there
are also many dangers to it
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:07.080
because it can take us to a
situation with no contribution...
00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:10.800
I'm sorry, but then there's also all
that part which we are not aware of,
00:21:10.840 --> 00:21:14.880
it is the door to the station, and
it is a place that has personality.
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.600
- It is the entrance to Barcelona.
- I feel personality in it.
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:24.760
For the first time, it put on site an
idea of a totally new public space,
00:21:24.840 --> 00:21:30.240
never seen before. It
was an absolute novelty.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.400
And of course this had
a very important impact.
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:36.160
When the AVE was made,
the emergency exits
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:41.800
of all the tracks under the
square were done temporarily
00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:44.960
through those kind of boxes.
00:21:45.040 --> 00:21:48.280
From my point of view,
someone with very bad ideas,
00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:54.480
destroyed a work of art. It's like
putting a label on a Miró painting.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.480
The value is there.
00:21:56.520 --> 00:22:00.800
And have they seen the cat?
Have they seen the cat or not?
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:13.560
I still quote my students
a phrase by Manuel Solà:
00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:16.560
"Any laid out time was better."
00:22:16.560 --> 00:22:22.040
And it is so, for
traditional layouts,
00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:25.080
we should not think that
because they are traditional
00:22:25.120 --> 00:22:26.440
they are no longer modern.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.760
No, laying out a city
is an important act
00:22:30.800 --> 00:22:33.920
and this is what Manuel
Solà had very clear,
00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:39.760
what Bohigas did in the Olympic Village,
which is that the city is laid out.
00:22:39.800 --> 00:22:43.560
The experience of Barcelona
has been, I think,
00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:45.600
the most successful and the one
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:47.520
that has had the longest
international trajectory.
00:22:47.560 --> 00:22:51.360
Barcelona has done it before
and better than others have.
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:54.480
They had the great
legacy of Cerdà,
00:22:54.520 --> 00:22:57.760
that is, they had an
extraordinary city,
00:22:57.760 --> 00:23:01.360
and they knew how to
prolong it and extend it.
00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:08.800
Bohigas did make the best
slogan for Barcelona:
00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:13.000
Sanitize the center,
monumentalize the periphery.
00:23:13.040 --> 00:23:14.440
It was very simple.
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.880
It was to open gaps within
the center with small squares.
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:23.760
Sanitizing the center
meant light, air, greenery.
00:23:23.800 --> 00:23:31.360
Because for Bohigas, in his
slightly enlightened mentality,
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:35.760
better spatial conditions
also meant an improvement
00:23:35.800 --> 00:23:37.800
in the lives of these people.
00:23:37.840 --> 00:23:39.920
And the same thing
happened on the periphery,
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:44.040
which was so bland, so
boring, so poorly built,
00:23:44.080 --> 00:23:47.840
that monumentalizing means
introducing some points of interest.
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:52.880
Even if it was to paint
a façade red or yellow.
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.200
Put some color on it.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.480
Build schools, pave, put trees.
00:23:58.520 --> 00:24:03.280
Things as simple as, not
turning them into monuments,
00:24:03.320 --> 00:24:12.280
but giving them the same quality of public
space that the rest of the city had.
00:24:12.840 --> 00:24:17.160
Placing architectural or
infrastructure icons in the periphery,
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.480
such as the Calatrava
Bridge in Bac de Roda.
00:24:20.520 --> 00:24:23.400
You say "Hey, you don't need
such an important bridge
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:27.000
for such a small span".
00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:30.320
But it became a
sculpture, it was an icon,
00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:34.000
it spoke of the pride of
the people of the periphery,
00:24:34.040 --> 00:24:37.920
of the neighborhoods, for also
having significant buildings.
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:43.840
Santiago, I think, is a man who has
changed the way of building bridges,
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:46.360
he has altered it.
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:51.080
Since Calatrava, the
bridges are now different.
00:24:51.080 --> 00:24:56.920
They are no longer a way to span a
space but the creation of a place.
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.160
This is because
Calatrava exists.
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:05.480
My teacher Alejandro de la Sota
00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:07.880
said that an architect
is two things:
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.000
an intellectual, to understand
the surrounding society
00:25:11.040 --> 00:25:12.600
and what society needs,
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:15.640
and a technician, to
be able to produce
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:21.800
those objects and those constructions
or buildings that are essential.
00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:24.880
He said that they don't
have to be artists,
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:28.400
if someone is an artist... the
spirit blows where it wants,
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:30.280
but it is not essential
for them to be artists.
00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:32.320
But they do have to be an
intellectual and a technician.
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:34.640
And that intellectual
and technical training
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:39.640
is what makes the architect
aware of how they should act
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.400
and what economic resources
they should use in each case.
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:44.520
Maybe they don’t have
to be an intellectual
00:25:44.560 --> 00:25:46.920
in the most pedantic
sense of the word,
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.680
but they do have to
have some reflection
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:51.560
or self-reflection on
what they are doing.
00:25:51.560 --> 00:25:54.040
That is, a transformation
of society
00:25:54.080 --> 00:25:56.760
cannot be proposed if one
does not know society.
00:25:56.760 --> 00:26:03.040
A cultural space cannot be changed if
the culture of that place is not known.
00:26:03.080 --> 00:26:06.040
I think the idea of the new,
00:26:06.040 --> 00:26:08.000
which is associated with modern,
00:26:08.040 --> 00:26:12.200
"the modern, the modern, is always
new, is always newer, new again..."
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:16.000
This is one of the ideas
that is questioned nowadays.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:20.040
And therefore architects do not
need to be always innovative,
00:26:20.040 --> 00:26:24.040
always groundbreaking
and always visionary.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.360
And architecture
begins with thought,
00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:30.200
and we have to
know how to think.
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:36.040
And we educate more
towards knowing how to act
00:26:36.080 --> 00:26:39.600
to achieve more formal results
00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:42.760
than in the responsibility
of being an architect
00:26:42.760 --> 00:26:47.040
and educating thought.
00:26:47.080 --> 00:26:52.560
It seems that universities are
dedicated to finding work for kids
00:26:52.560 --> 00:26:57.080
rather than training them in
what it means to be an architect.
00:26:57.120 --> 00:27:01.120
Because the architect has a very
large social responsibility,
00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:07.760
but universities
are educating them
00:27:07.800 --> 00:27:14.680
to know how to communicate, to
find and sell beautiful forms.
00:27:23.080 --> 00:27:26.720
After that stage
of postmodernism
00:27:26.760 --> 00:27:29.840
in which attention
to history, memory,
00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:34.200
tradition, urban environment,
respect for heritage,
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.440
which postmodernity
brought with itself,
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:43.840
deconstructivism, which opened
in a famous exhibition at MoMA
00:27:43.840 --> 00:27:47.120
one year before the Berlin
Wall fell, by the way...
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:52.400
Deconstructivism was a movement
that also had influence in Spain,
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:55.200
and what it wanted
to express was that
00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:00.240
if we live in especially
fractured, controversial years,
00:28:00.280 --> 00:28:02.760
we must make a fractured,
controversial architecture,
00:28:02.840 --> 00:28:07.280
broken, because architecture had to
express the disorder of the times.
00:28:07.320 --> 00:28:12.400
And in the case of Spain with
its main thinker, who would be
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:17.160
Enric Miralles,
a brilliant person.
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:22.200
It is surely the closest thing to
a young Mozart I have ever met.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.800
A personality with a
very powerful ability
00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:33.280
to draw and create
strange forms.
00:28:33.320 --> 00:28:36.480
At a time when there
was a certain fatigue
00:28:36.520 --> 00:28:40.560
of all this stuff about
rationalisms, historicisms
00:28:40.600 --> 00:28:44.600
and certain architectural
forms already widely seen,
00:28:44.600 --> 00:28:48.080
Miralles was revolutionary...
very revolutionary!
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:54.120
Well, I don't know if he was Mozart
or if he was Gaudí or if he was...
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:58.320
but he was one of these people who
have a really powerful creativity.
00:28:59.560 --> 00:29:02.080
He died very prematurely,
00:29:02.120 --> 00:29:06.400
but he left behind a
sequence of admirable works,
00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:09.760
and that left a glow
00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:13.880
difficult to match.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:17.360
The most important, of course,
where he is sadly buried today.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.840
I had the great luck
of being with Enric
00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:30.600
and of share 24 hours a day,
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:35.960
thinking and discovering
together what we wanted,
00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:37.960
what architecture was for us.
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:42.360
Our idea was to enter
this land with a zigzag,
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.400
as animals descend on
the earth, doing zigzag.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.800
And after observing some photos
00:29:49.840 --> 00:29:56.480
of how logs moved in the rivers,
00:29:56.520 --> 00:29:59.880
we made a concrete pavement,
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:04.400
full of logs, which are
the logs that descend.
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.400
This is again another reference
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:11.880
of life as roads that
end up in the sea.
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:16.360
The cemetery is very rhetorical
in a very lyrical sense.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.800
It awakens passions.
00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:21.640
It’s quite magical.
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:23.960
And in the chapel...
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.600
it's this form similar
to this kind of triangle.
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:33.720
When you are talking
about spaces of intimacy,
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:35.440
you do this sort of gesture.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:39.720
This gesture was like
the volume of the chapel,
00:30:39.760 --> 00:30:41.400
the geometry of the chapel.
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:44.600
And this point, the deepest
point inside the earth,
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.160
is the one that had
to be illuminated.
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:51.320
So we make skylights appear
here and the light is below,
00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:52.960
where you least expect it,
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.440
at the bottom of the
earth and not above.
00:30:58.840 --> 00:31:03.120
I think that the cemetery
is in a magnificent moment,
00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:09.320
it has something
a little romantic…
00:31:09.360 --> 00:31:12.320
it is almost a ruin.
00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:18.520
We thought of the cemetery
as a dialogue with nature.
00:31:18.560 --> 00:31:22.480
A ruin is nothing other
than the moment when nature
00:31:22.520 --> 00:31:26.400
starts to recover the space that
had been taken away from it,
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.960
and there is this balance
between nature and construction,
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:34.440
that is a ruin, that
always excites us,
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:38.120
because deep down it talks
about life and death... a ruin.
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:39.960
This remained half finished,
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:41.960
because the cemetery has
never been completed.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:46.280
I prefer that everything
stay as it is.
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:50.600
It is not something that
nature is destroying,
00:31:50.600 --> 00:31:54.600
it seems like nature
has been approaching
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:57.640
and has entered this
desired dialogue.
00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:03.920
What we'd like is to think that
00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:11.280
space contributes a special
feeling to the person.
00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:14.840
The person activates that
space and starts to feel it.
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.920
Of course, you activate
your space, indeed,
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:20.400
but above all... activate it!
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:22.600
In a way that, when the
professional has left,
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:26.880
you dare to give this
space some energy.
00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:31.600
To fill it with books and make it
look a bit messy at any given time,
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.400
and end up being...
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:38.160
in the end your spaces are your
reflection, your own personality.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:42.320
What we are interested in
is to change the space,
00:32:42.360 --> 00:32:45.640
generate new spaces,
different and comfortable.
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:48.080
Changing the location of doors,
00:32:48.120 --> 00:32:54.200
create circulations, good
circulations, light...
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.640
It's not important if the
coffee machine is green or red.
00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:01.760
A phrase by Miguel Milá that I also love
is “to arouse emotions with the simple”.
00:33:01.760 --> 00:33:04.880
You arrive at a place where
there is practically nothing
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:06.880
and it is beautiful
because there is nothing,
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:10.800
there is a beautiful light, a wonderful
color of the walls, a chair...
00:33:10.840 --> 00:33:12.440
You are amazed.
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:17.120
However, when you go to a place that
carries an excess of everything,
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.440
you are not thrilled
in the same way.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:21.120
It thrills you in another way.
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.080
If there's a lot of
material materiality,
00:34:08.080 --> 00:34:12.600
it distracts perception and the
object takes on value, not the space.
00:34:12.600 --> 00:34:18.800
We discovered that if we just
worked with one material,
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:31.280
space benefited in the sense
that space became more apparent.
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:36.680
In other words, we found that if
we worked with different materials,
00:34:36.720 --> 00:34:40.760
your attention is captured
by these different materials.
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:43.360
When material became
more homogeneous...
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:45.640
it disappears, this
material loses value,
00:34:45.680 --> 00:34:49.400
and then space is the one that
takes on value and presence.
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:52.440
And from this, also the importance
of our appreciation of the void.
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:56.160
And then, above all, the
proportion in the spaces,
00:34:56.160 --> 00:34:59.960
that things breathe a
harmonic proportion.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.840
We pursue that a lot. This is then
very difficult to see in the photos.
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:07.440
This has to be lived
within the space, inside.
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:12.280
That the composition is accurate,
adequate. Very important.
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:17.120
It is very rare to see people with
a lot of money that have good taste.
00:35:17.160 --> 00:35:20.200
I mean... I know that good taste
is the anesthesia of the public,
00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:22.360
it could be, that is
what Victor Papanek said,
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.200
but to see people
with a lot of money
00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:29.160
who live in a tasteful way...
it is difficult.
00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:30.880
Because, people who
have a lot of money…
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:34.400
why do they like to get
into such enormous houses?
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.280
You take an Hola (gossip magazine)
and you'll never see a house...
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:40.560
When I do take a Hola there's
never a house where I would live.
00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:43.320
Never, on the contrary.
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.120
There is too much of everything:
00:35:45.160 --> 00:35:47.840
300 cushions on a bed...
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.880
things that you say: my God!
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.440
How can people live like this?
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:54.000
And that is money.
00:35:54.040 --> 00:35:57.560
It is also a horrible example for
people who do not have so much money,
00:35:57.600 --> 00:36:00.640
they have that as a
model of what they want,
00:36:00.680 --> 00:36:05.080
what they would like to have.
My God, what a fright!
00:36:05.160 --> 00:36:07.280
We are children of minimalism.
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:10.920
With very few elements,
we define space.
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:18.160
We rather like not covering up but
leaving things out in the open.
00:36:18.240 --> 00:36:24.080
The excess of stuff generates
a stress to the eyes
00:36:24.080 --> 00:36:26.560
that certain kind of
people might enjoy.
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:49.000
92 is the annus
mirabilis of Spain,
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.200
when the Olympic
Games of Barcelona,
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:56.200
the Expo of Seville and the cultural
capital status of Madrid coincide.
00:36:56.240 --> 00:37:02.600
At the end of 93 the Spanish economy
recovers and it thrives for 14 years.
00:37:07.200 --> 00:37:14.640
The Illa Diagonal is a building
that has a touch of humility
00:37:14.680 --> 00:37:17.880
but solves tremendously
complex problems.
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.160
To start, how it is crossed.
00:37:21.160 --> 00:37:24.920
How it is crossed by car,
how it is crossed on foot,
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.800
how to create façade to a street
as important as the Diagonal,
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.800
which is 100 meters wide.
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.400
On the one hand, as you know,
the elevation is not homogeneous,
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:38.680
he does not put a 300-meter
block crowned with a cornice,
00:37:38.720 --> 00:37:42.800
but rather it is staggered in
a somewhat picturesque way,
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.600
and at the same time he staggers
it, he also sets it back.
00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:50.800
So that there remains that
exfoliation, which is a bit cubist,
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:55.720
that makes a building that could
have been perceived as oppressing,
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:59.080
because of its size and scale,
00:37:59.120 --> 00:38:02.520
fracture and become more
friendly to the citizen,
00:38:02.520 --> 00:38:05.680
because it is three
of Cerdà's blocks.
00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:09.680
The pieces that are
added in the back
00:38:09.720 --> 00:38:12.800
build that smaller grain
that adapts better.
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:17.880
There are little streets,
some stairs, a small access…
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:19.920
They build that smaller grain
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.880
that is better suited to the district
of Les Corts, which is just behind.
00:38:28.560 --> 00:38:31.160
The city is what makes us social,
00:38:31.200 --> 00:38:33.200
maximum respect for it.
00:38:33.200 --> 00:38:37.920
I tell students: putting
a bench is making a city,
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:43.600
signaling a zebra
crossing is making a city,
00:38:43.640 --> 00:38:45.640
and we have to be
very aware of it.
00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:48.080
Every time we intervene in
the city, we are making city.
00:38:48.120 --> 00:38:50.120
I always say to the students:
00:38:50.120 --> 00:38:53.640
be careful because the architect
builds but starts destroying,
00:38:53.680 --> 00:38:57.040
and destroys things that
cannot be recovered.
00:38:57.080 --> 00:39:02.840
And thus, how through architecture
we can give people dignity.
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:05.040
It is our responsibility.
00:39:05.080 --> 00:39:08.080
And I believe that it is the
one that excites the most
00:39:08.080 --> 00:39:11.600
and the one that the architect
must have the most awareness of.
00:39:11.640 --> 00:39:16.600
Modifying the surroundings
is very powerful
00:39:16.640 --> 00:39:18.840
and must be done carefully.
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:22.720
You have to do it with
caution and humility.
00:39:22.720 --> 00:39:26.000
Yes, it is a very addictive
power, like all powers.
00:39:26.040 --> 00:39:30.200
Yes, it is a very catchy power.
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:34.960
Indeed, in general, architecture
is a way to regenerate the city.
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:36.960
When you build a large building,
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:40.800
you know that others will
be produced around it.
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:42.840
Many times these are
public investments,
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:45.800
deciding to place a new
museum in the Raval,
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.240
like Meier's, knowing that...
00:39:48.240 --> 00:39:52.400
“-Hey, in this neighborhood?
- Yes, let's build it here.”
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.760
And that, regardless
of the value
00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:58.480
that Richard Meier's
Neo-Corbusian language may have,
00:39:58.520 --> 00:40:01.480
what it does contribute is
to regenerate that area,
00:40:01.520 --> 00:40:07.000
because other institutions, other
galleries, other shops settle in,
00:40:07.040 --> 00:40:10.960
and the city is
given another life.
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:15.400
To make architecture is not
only to make a building,
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:19.880
it is to contribute to the
regeneration and making of the city.
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:23.560
A program is always questions.
00:40:23.600 --> 00:40:26.520
When I deal with a place,
00:40:26.520 --> 00:40:30.400
the first thing I do is
ask what it wants, observe.
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.440
Because the place is asking
or rejecting other things.
00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:38.840
In the end, we must
answer two questions:
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:40.680
what do we have to do and
where do we have to do it.
00:40:40.720 --> 00:40:43.680
What we really like is to get
to the root, or to the essence,
00:40:43.720 --> 00:40:45.600
or to the initial
concept of things.
00:40:45.600 --> 00:40:47.600
That is to say: What
do we have to do?
00:40:47.640 --> 00:40:49.640
It is this concept:
What do we have to do?
00:40:49.680 --> 00:40:54.400
A lighthouse, a place to sleep? And
then, where do we have to do it.
00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:58.600
So, finding which is the
basic concept of things
00:40:58.600 --> 00:41:01.720
and then deal with the specific
place where we have to do it,
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:05.480
this gives kind of a unique
answer, and we like it.
00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:09.800
Place, for us, has been
a very important element,
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.800
we've always wanted to
really link ourselves to it.
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:16.800
We've always wanted to set
up a dialogue between equals.
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:19.840
We've wanted to link ourselves
to it but talking one on one,
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:22.280
we have never wanted to
surrender ourselves to the place,
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:24.320
to say "We're not here,
let’s not be seen..."
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.320
or to say “here we are and
we destroy everything”.
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:28.800
Not one or the other,
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.720
but instead saying: "Hey, you are here,
I'm also coming, let’s go together".
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.520
With a dialogue that
is very equal to equal.
00:41:35.560 --> 00:41:38.640
And this is an
attitude that we have,
00:41:38.680 --> 00:41:41.520
whether we are in a
natural environment
00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:44.160
or in a preexisting building
as it might be here.
00:41:44.240 --> 00:41:46.840
It is the same, it
is again an approach,
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:49.240
an attitude,
a procedural approach.
00:41:51.560 --> 00:41:54.800
It is in fact true
that we don't like...
00:41:54.840 --> 00:42:00.560
that flatness that is given
by one single paint color,
00:42:00.600 --> 00:42:03.120
that thing...
00:42:03.120 --> 00:42:06.480
It's like it when you
look at a leaf and say:
00:42:06.520 --> 00:42:08.520
"if I now take the color
green, I'll paint it".
00:42:08.520 --> 00:42:11.600
No, you can take a lot
of green or whatever
00:42:11.600 --> 00:42:14.040
but you never end up
painting the color of a leaf,
00:42:14.080 --> 00:42:16.760
because it is made out
of millions of colors.
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:24.120
We like that materials, ultimately,
have like this whole registry,
00:42:24.120 --> 00:42:26.120
and this indeed
happens to us a lot.
00:42:26.160 --> 00:42:28.480
We like materials to be...
00:42:28.520 --> 00:42:30.520
that they express
a lot of themselves
00:42:30.560 --> 00:42:35.760
and that they are also lively
and rich in themselves.
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:40.800
Steel has an important condition
for us: it is very precise.
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:43.880
You end up dimensioning
it in millimeters.
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:50.640
Actually, the first house we made,
we even used half millimeters.
00:42:52.720 --> 00:42:56.640
No comment, no comment...
00:42:56.680 --> 00:42:59.800
So then, steel, which is
measured in millimeters,
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:02.400
when it seems that concrete
sometimes goes by hand spans…
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:05.680
of course we really liked this.
It is very precise.
00:43:09.600 --> 00:43:15.320
Caixaforum is formidable and is
exquisite in all its details,
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.360
but at the same time
very intelligent
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:19.160
in the way they have
approached everything.
00:43:19.160 --> 00:43:23.880
A disused power plant,
built 100 years ago,
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.040
obsolete, made out of brick,
00:43:27.080 --> 00:43:29.080
but surrounded by narrow streets
00:43:29.080 --> 00:43:32.080
and with a gas station in front.
A really bad place.
00:43:32.120 --> 00:43:34.000
And there Herzog
and de Meuron
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:38.880
had the extraordinary talent on
the one hand of growing upwards
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.320
and on the other
growing downwards,
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:43.320
and the square that they
could not have around it,
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:44.600
they put it under.
00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:48.040
Then the building is
almost lifted in suspense,
00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:50.680
because they had
no space around it.
00:43:50.720 --> 00:43:54.000
Later they were able to buy
and demolish the gas station
00:43:54.040 --> 00:43:56.840
and a building next door was burned
and another square remained.
00:43:56.840 --> 00:43:58.440
Now it is surrounded by squares,
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.320
but when this was developed
there was no space...
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:03.960
How are you going to
make a great art center
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.480
without having a place
where people arrive?
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:10.760
I think it is the
most valuable building
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.680
that has been made in Madrid in
the last decade, without a doubt.
00:44:13.680 --> 00:44:16.200
On the one hand it does
not rise above the houses,
00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:20.160
therefore people do not see it
as a building that is imposing,
00:44:20.200 --> 00:44:23.800
but as a building that blends.
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:25.880
And then they use that
technique of theirs,
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:30.040
which is that the new and the old
do not necessarily have to contrast,
00:44:30.080 --> 00:44:32.560
but rather merge.
00:44:32.600 --> 00:44:36.240
Before, the traditional thing
was if you go to a monastery,
00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:39.640
what you add after has to
be all aluminum and glass
00:44:39.680 --> 00:44:41.080
to make it look like it is new.
00:44:41.120 --> 00:44:47.040
Therefore, people always see it as a
little Frankenstein, a sum of things.
00:44:47.080 --> 00:44:51.560
And they have a technique
of intervention on heritage
00:44:51.560 --> 00:44:56.080
in which they ensure that
the new, being recognizable,
00:44:56.120 --> 00:44:57.920
merges with the old.
00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:20.520
The crisis of 2008
is tremendous,
00:45:20.520 --> 00:45:23.280
that is the crisis of a system.
00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:28.120
And then, of course,
the popular discontent,
00:45:28.120 --> 00:45:31.320
the impoverishment of
the middle classes...
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:36.360
What the crisis put on the
table was the contradiction
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:40.920
that perhaps it is not necessary
to make very large buildings
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:45.880
to embellish a policy
or an ideology,
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:52.560
but in a country where we all have trouble
paying bills at the end of the month,
00:45:52.640 --> 00:45:55.960
you have to be a
little more humble.
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:59.080
I believe that it has been
more the lack of humility,
00:45:59.120 --> 00:46:03.000
not of the architect, but the
lack of humility of a system
00:46:03.040 --> 00:46:08.560
that sought through architecture
to justify certain...
00:46:08.600 --> 00:46:11.600
through certain excesses
to justify ideologies.
00:46:11.600 --> 00:46:14.560
And what the crisis has done,
00:46:14.600 --> 00:46:19.240
has been pointing the finger
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.960
at those architects and
by extension to all of us,
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:26.440
so that we do not cross
the line, I think justly.
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:30.120
Because it was no longer the
Spain of the great buildings,
00:46:30.160 --> 00:46:31.480
the great icons,
00:46:31.520 --> 00:46:36.200
but the Spain of austerity,
modesty, laconism.
00:46:36.200 --> 00:46:37.840
That is where we are now
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:39.880
and where there are great
people that are building.
00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:51.880
When some foreigner
comes to see me, I say:
00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:55.280
In Madrid there are two things,
the Caixaforum and Madrid Río.
00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:58.400
6 km of river park.
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:02.440
And this has made it a critical
success but also a public success.
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:03.880
People love it.
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:07.480
Urban interventions that, in
addition to their formal quality,
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:08.640
transform the city,
00:47:08.640 --> 00:47:12.480
that have the ability to
make the city different.
00:47:12.520 --> 00:47:14.800
And indeed Madrid Río
has changed the city,
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.320
it has great virtues.
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:21.480
One of them is that it is a
park in the area that is most...
00:47:21.520 --> 00:47:25.120
In Madrid the north has been the
richest and most prosperous area,
00:47:25.160 --> 00:47:28.280
where people with more money lived,
where the large offices were,
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:30.720
and the south has
been more needy,
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.560
humbler and with less
spaces for leisure.
00:47:34.600 --> 00:47:38.280
And it is precisely in the area
that needed parks the most,
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:41.000
and at the same time it
is a long and narrow park,
00:47:41.040 --> 00:47:42.720
surrounded by building masses
00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:45.360
from which people can go
down immediately and use it.
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:49.840
And linked to Madrid Río is
the transformation of Matadero,
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:54.200
with different young architects,
the best of that generation,
00:47:54.200 --> 00:47:58.040
who have made many very
intelligent interventions
00:47:58.080 --> 00:48:02.840
to transform it into a place of
culture of the young, new culture.
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:08.240
We are at a time where the star
architect is totally in crisis
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:12.720
and now an architecture is being made
that has to prove that it is a humble,
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:14.800
simple architecture
that serves society.
00:48:21.160 --> 00:48:24.080
The greatest enemy
of interior design?
00:48:25.520 --> 00:48:27.520
Vintage.
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:33.440
No... I don't know,
thinking about it...
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.640
The decoration objects stores,
00:48:36.720 --> 00:48:41.000
those that sell absurd stuff:
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:48.400
cushions, small bottles,
things to fill up homes.
00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:54.120
You encounter regulations and
regulations up to a point of excess…
00:48:54.160 --> 00:48:59.720
And this is what sometimes I think
that can become a quite powerful enemy.
00:49:00.120 --> 00:49:05.360
I believe that the greatest
enemy of architecture
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:09.480
is always the lack of attention
00:49:09.520 --> 00:49:13.120
and the lack of love
for the places we share.
00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:17.760
So, quickly… The Market.
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:21.080
The market that has transformed
housing into pure merchandise
00:49:21.080 --> 00:49:24.760
to make money, it has
destroyed architecture,
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:28.360
at least the domestic one.
00:49:28.640 --> 00:49:31.800
Then, the idea of city.
The market goes faster,
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:34.760
the market makes the
streets to reach the plots,
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:41.200
and the plots to get the highest number
of homes to be able to sell them.
00:49:41.200 --> 00:49:49.360
If you look at the Ensanche, it
is full of architecture with soul.
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:52.720
Because in the past
a house was heritage.
00:49:52.720 --> 00:49:54.720
Nowadays houses
are built and sold.
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:57.440
And whoever builds them,
washes their hands of it after.
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.920
It is merchandise,
housing is merchandise.
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.960
There is the concept of
luxury, very standard,
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:09.000
because standard is cheaper
to build, standard is...
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:10.880
People look for what
they already know.
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:15.360
This current visual culture,
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.600
in this sense, does some damage
to the identities of each place,
00:50:19.680 --> 00:50:23.880
which almost in the end, is what
gives richness to the world.
00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:28.480
Then you find things thanks
to all the diffusion of images
00:50:28.520 --> 00:50:31.480
that you no longer know
where they are from,
00:50:31.520 --> 00:50:34.160
if they are from here or
they are from another place.
00:50:34.200 --> 00:50:40.360
In this sense there is as an
absolute globalization of identity,
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:44.840
a very diluted identity,
already part of the whole.
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:47.000
And it is vulgarized,
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:53.160
and you find the same luxury
standards in all parts of the world,
00:50:53.200 --> 00:50:56.760
It is a vulgar architecture
that responds to a market.
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:59.360
A market which the only thing
that wants is now, now, now.
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:03.480
Life in itself takes on speed
00:51:03.520 --> 00:51:05.760
and this is why there's
talk of uncertainty,
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.600
because we have to get
used to going into a world
00:51:09.600 --> 00:51:13.240
that seems to be going
at a higher speed,
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:18.880
things can't be taken for
granted or stabilized,
00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:21.320
because this is over, let’s say.
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:24.280
The world is a changing world,
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:29.200
and so we have to learn to live
with this continuous change.
00:51:29.240 --> 00:51:34.640
This is really a very
substantial change,
00:51:34.680 --> 00:51:38.000
because what we have to do is to
learn to think in another way.
00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.000
Probably, we will be in an era,
00:51:40.040 --> 00:51:42.480
as has been said,
of 1,000 plateaus,
00:51:42.520 --> 00:51:47.800
1,000 different premises and all
good and all bad at the same time.
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:54.560
It is a moment of search and
conflict rather than clear solutions.
00:51:54.560 --> 00:52:00.200
And our worth as architects,
basically, is this ability to imagine.
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:04.960
Because when we talk about ideas,
these are very magical things,
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:07.720
that come from a whole
mixture of chemistry
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:10.360
that is very difficult to know,
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:12.920
but that is not work in any way.
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:16.320
It is richer, it
is more complex,
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:23.600
and that I like to say that it
is architecture's patrimony.
00:52:23.640 --> 00:52:30.240
What gives value to architecture
is this ability of dreaming,
00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:35.760
of imagining and then having
the background to carry out,
00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:39.680
to make this dream a reality.
00:52:39.720 --> 00:52:45.440
It is tremendous; it is to go
from intangible to tangible.
00:52:46.040 --> 00:52:50.600
There is a tale by García Márquez
called "I rent myself to dream".
00:52:50.640 --> 00:52:56.280
I believe that architects can
feel reflected in that title.
00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:58.160
They are people
who rent themselves
00:52:58.200 --> 00:53:00.040
to dream the dreams of
others, not their own.
00:53:00.080 --> 00:53:02.640
It is not only to dream
what the other dreams,
00:53:02.680 --> 00:53:05.480
or to put words to the dreams of
another, to the client's dream,
00:53:05.520 --> 00:53:10.480
but even to dream what the client
has not even thought about dreaming.
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:14.000
I think the architect's greatest
enemy is always narcissism,
00:53:14.040 --> 00:53:15.800
to speak in the first person.
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:19.480
I forbid this to my students. I
don't let them use the first person.
00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:22.160
I don't care what
you want or desire,
00:53:22.200 --> 00:53:25.280
what matters to me is if this
is necessary, if it is useful,
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:27.760
if that satisfies
the wishes of others,
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:30.240
but your wishes
are not important.
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:32.320
Your vital project
is not important.
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:36.560
The important thing is
that you serve others.
Distributor: Pragda Films
Length: 56 minutes
Date: 2019
Genre: Expository
Language: Spanish; Catalan
Grade: Middle School, High School, College, Adult
Color/BW:
Closed Captioning: Available
The is title is available for licensing on the Pragda STREAM site.
Existing customers, please log in to view this film.
New to Docuseek? Register to request a quote.
Related Films
An insightful and educated exploration of Brazil at this stage and age.
The vibrant tapestry of Belo Horizonte, Brazil reveals walls adorned with…