WEBVTT

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[static crackling]

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- The man is not controlling
the vertical, the horizontal,

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the channel
that you\'re gonna be on.

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- This country is founded
on the principle of free speech.

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- I think a lot of Americans

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are just kind of willfully -
are throwing their rights away.

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- There are many, many people
who are struggling

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to get their kids into day care
at 5:00 a.m.

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before they go to their job.

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How are you gonna get
that person into the street?

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They barely
have enough time to live.

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- What we\'re really fighting for
is the right to know.

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- Freedom of speech comes second
only to God.

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- As long as there\'s been
a mainstream,

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there\'s been a counterculture,

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and that\'s what I\'ve been
looking for in my life.

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I kept looking around like,

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\"Where\'s the positive, creative,
like, constructive, like, world,

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\"the community that questions
conventional thinking

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\"on every level?

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Where is this community?\"

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And for me,
I found it in punk rock,

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because I saw people questioning
every conventional idea:

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political convention,
sexual convention,

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theological convention,
philosophical convention,

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fashion convention,
musical convention.

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Freaks.
Deviants.

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That\'s me.

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Though that terminology \"punk\"
has been through a lot

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in the last 30 years,

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I still think of punk
as a free space,

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and I celebrate the free space
where new ideas get presented.

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Who\'s the punk airline,
or what\'s the punk gas station?

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The one who does it right.

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People often talk
about punk being dead.

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But ironically,
or interestingly,

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the death of punk is always
right around the time

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they stopped
being involved with it,

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because it is dead for them.

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They checked out.

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But punk will never die.

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It may not be called punk.
It will never die, though.

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It will always be happening.

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There\'s always gonna be
a point in people\'s lives

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where these, like,
generations come in,

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whether they\'re young people

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or just people coming
to a new sense of awareness,

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where they\'re like,

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\"We don\'t accept
what you\'re giving us,

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and we\'re gonna make
our own thing.\"

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And that\'s punk.

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All:
♪ I believe ♪

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- ♪ I believe ♪

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- I\'ve been called
an everyday hero,

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and I worry
about trivializing heroes,

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because what I did
took no special bravery.

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I shed no blood.

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I paid no high price.

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Maybe it had to do
with where I was in my life.

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You know, I was...

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I was ready to die.

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There is no man more free

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than somebody
who has nothing more to lose.

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- Robb Topolski
is the everyman who started

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one of the most important
communications policy debates

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that\'s happened in Washington
in a decade.

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- It\'s funny, because
when I first found this issue,

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it wasn\'t all that important
to me.

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I saw a technical problem
out there

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and characterized
and described it

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so that people
could solve the problem,

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and that\'s all I\'ve done.

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- Good morning,
Mr. Chairman and Commissioners.

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The first item presented
for your consideration

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is an order that examines

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whether it is a reasonable
network management practice

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for Comcast to interfere
with its customers\' use

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of peer-to-peer
networking applications

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or whether this practice
runs afoul

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of federal internet policy.

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One Comcast customer,
Robert Topolski,

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conducted numerous tests

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and reported
that the level of interference

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with his use
of peer-to-peer applications

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was approximately equal

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regardless of the time
of day or night,

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regardless of the day
of the week,

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during prime-time
and non-prime-time hours of use.

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- Comcast wasn\'t evil
in what they were trying to do.

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What they\'ve done, however,
since then has been evil.

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- Comcast\'s past failure
to disclose the practice

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to its customers
has compounded the harm.

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- They\'ve lied about
what they were doing.

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They flat-out said...

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- \"We\'re not blocking access
to any application

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and we don\'t throttle
any traffic.\"

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- But my own tests show
that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week,

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every day that I test,

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the level of interference
is the same.

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So unless the internet
is somehow equally congested

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at all times,

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then what they said wasn\'t true.

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They\'re doing it in a way
that most people wouldn\'t detect,

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so they don\'t know to complain.

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The Great Firewall of China

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used exactly this method
to do censorship.

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When people in China are looking

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at certain websites
outside of China

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that have antigovernment
messages on it,

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the Chinese firewall
detects that

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and sends a reset message.

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It forges this reset message.

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- In layman\'s terms,

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Comcast opens
its customers\' mail

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because it wants to deliver mail

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not based on the address
on the envelope

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but on the type of letter
contained therein.

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- I posted my results
on the internet.

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When I posted my results,
it wasn\'t the,

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\"This is a free speech issue,\"
you know.

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It was more,
\"Here\'s a weird technical thing

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that\'s happening on the net
that we didn\'t know about.\"

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I\'m not easily prone
to conspiracies

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and don\'t want to wear
the tinfoil hat

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or anything like that,

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but the events,

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they speak for themselves.

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- I think there are a lot
of people in this country

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that are so overwhelmed

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that they\'re pretending
to be asleep.

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- I was born in a log hospital.

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No.

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I was born
in Elmhurst, Illinois.

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My dad was a fireman.

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And my mom was the Avon lady.

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And between them,

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we had a great childhood.

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When I was nine, we moved
to a real tiny town in Arizona

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called Chandler.

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It was a farming community.

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There were 12,000 people,

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and everybody knew everybody.

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I\'m a social liberal,
fiscal conservative, so...

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[laughs]

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So I\'m a registered Republican
on the books,

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but I\'m actually Libertarian.

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I was in the air force
for four years.

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I was a cop for 12 years.

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I have two daughters.

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My oldest is 27,
and my youngest is 23.

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My oldest has two kids.

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Yeah, I have grandchildren.

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This is babies
having grandbabies

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right here in front of you.

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[laughs]

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I was brought up
in a pretty small town.

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We had pretty small-town values,

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and you\'re attached
to your values.

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They don\'t change,

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not unless something
earth-shattering comes

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and teaches you
something new and better.

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They don\'t change.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I\'ll keep \'em.

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It\'s funny.

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I think I was then
kind of how I am now,

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this cross between being
very musically oriented

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and appreciating things
of beauty and harmony in life

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and yet also being
very technically oriented.

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- In my life,
what I\'m interested in

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is looking for other people -

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and they\'re everywhere,
by the way -

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who are also questioning things,

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because that is the network
that\'s the underground.

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I got to, like, be connected to
the people I know who give a [...]

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and to look after the people, like,

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who work with me
or for me, work -

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look out for - you know,
just to feel that kind of connection

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and just keep it alive.

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It\'s just a flame.

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It\'s just a flame.

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- ♪ It may be darkness
on the outside ♪

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♪ But inside
it\'s nice and bright ♪

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- Robb is a fan
of turn-of-the-century

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barbershop quartet
a cappella singers.

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- ♪ But I get pizza at my desk
most every night ♪

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When I moved to Oregon,

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where we may have
90 sunny days in a year,

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I figured out that I needed
an inside hobby.

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I had a lot of this old music
laying around, and I said,

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\"God, I wonder what the uptake
would be for these kids

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\"if I put some of this
barbershop quartet music out there

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\"and, you know,
just told them what it was,

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\"that it was different,
it was interesting,

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and give it a try.\"

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♪ It don\'t look good ♪

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- He was trading files
with other fans around the world,

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and he noticed that
via his Comcast connection

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that the files were being slow.

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They were being blocked
in many cases.

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And he took it upon himself
to actually do the research

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and figure out what his internet
service provider, Comcast,

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was doing.

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- It\'s incredibly non-sexy -

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peers and servers and packets,

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and these are not terms
that people use every day.

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But they would understand
that internet service providers

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are making value judgments
about your connection,

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and because of that,

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I couldn\'t share the music
that I wanted to share.

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[cheers and applause]

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I said, \"God, I wonder
what other voices

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are being stilled by that.\"

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- We take it for granted

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that the internet
is infinitely robust,

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that, like, everyone, everywhere
with a good idea,

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as long as they have, you know,
decent access and a computer,

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can get this out
into the sort of, like,

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public world of the internet.

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♪ Oh, here it goes, here it goes,
here it goes again ♪

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You know, we\'re kind of
the perfect story for the internet.

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We made a video for five bucks

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that got downloaded
10 million times.

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You know, we made a video
for $5,000

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that got downloaded
35 million times.

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The idea that the little guy
with a good idea can succeed

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is pretty well embodied
in our band

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with respect to the internet.

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If you think about how quickly
the internet changes,

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the World Wide Web
is, like, 15 years old.

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That\'s it.

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And the principle of the internet
that we love so much

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is fairness and equality

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and the basic idea
of a meritocracy.

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You know, like,
you go to the sites you want,

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and you choose
what you want to do,

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and better ideas succeed.

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♪ Oh, here it goes again ♪

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That is an idea that\'s built

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on common carriage laws
that no longer apply.

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[rotary dial clicking]

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- Telephone companies,
the old AT&T,

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was legally a common carrier,

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which meant, under law,
it had to carry any traffic

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that its customers
wanted to put on it.

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And in fact, since it was all
voice traffic in those days,

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it was not even legal
for any employee of AT&T

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to listen to the traffic
to find out what it was.

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- When the internet developed,

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the government made a series

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of pretty significant
policy decisions

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that said, \"Basically,
we think this technology

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is really most like
the phone system,\"

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and so what that meant
is that the internet really grew up

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around the idea of being
a common carrier service.

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Now, the challenge
is that as we\'ve morphed,

00:13:43.267 --> 00:13:44.767
as we\'ve migrated

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from traditional
dial-up internet service

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to high-speed service,

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the government had questions
about, \"Well, what is this now?\"

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- The whole trend
of the internet has been

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to become more and more
free market

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and less and less
involvement by the government.

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- This goes back
to the Clinton era

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when I worked in the Clinton
White House in the 1990s.

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We consciously made a decision

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not to try to regulate
the internet

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the way the phone system
was regulated,

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because the idea was,

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if we keep it
kind of lightly regulated,

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we\'ll let creativity,
entrepreneurship -

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we\'ll let people
kind of go out, invest,

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and see what they can do
with it.

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- The internet involves
every kind of technology:

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a copper wire of dial-up,
a copper wire for broadband.

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It could be a cable wire
for cable broadband.

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It could be fiber optics,

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or it could be any one
of different levels

00:14:43.900 --> 00:14:47.533
of radio spectrum
that it\'s covered.

00:14:47.567 --> 00:14:50.333
They all have
different requirements,

00:14:50.367 --> 00:14:51.933
limits, and liabilities.

00:14:55.267 --> 00:14:56.800
- So the cable industry
and the phone industry

00:14:56.833 --> 00:14:57.967
were able to convince

00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.600
the Federal Communications
Commission

00:14:59.633 --> 00:15:01.467
to change the rules,

00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:05.800
to basically give those industries
a lot more leeway and discretion

00:15:05.833 --> 00:15:09.300
about the control
they can place on that network.

00:15:10.233 --> 00:15:11.767
And that\'s what the FCC decided.

00:15:11.800 --> 00:15:13.967
They basically said
the old rules,

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.167
the common carrier rules,
don\'t apply anymore.

00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:20.800
[line beeping]

00:15:30.767 --> 00:15:33.567
- Something has been lost
in the process.

00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:35.367
The old AT&T,

00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:37.033
there were a lot of things
wrong with it.

00:15:37.067 --> 00:15:38.300
I mean, it was stuffy.

00:15:38.333 --> 00:15:39.700
It was stodgy.

00:15:39.733 --> 00:15:42.700
It was hopelessly un-innovative.

00:15:42.733 --> 00:15:44.700
It was hostile to innovation.

00:15:44.733 --> 00:15:47.800
But it did sort of view
what it did as a trust.

00:15:49.300 --> 00:15:52.267
The new telcos
don\'t have that sense.

00:15:52.300 --> 00:15:55.867
The whole idea that these things
are public utilities

00:15:55.900 --> 00:16:01.133
operated in the public interest
has kind of gone away,

00:16:01.167 --> 00:16:02.933
and we\'ve lost something there.

00:16:16.033 --> 00:16:17.433
- You know, that\'s really funny,

00:16:17.467 --> 00:16:19.400
because they say net neutrality

00:16:19.433 --> 00:16:23.433
like they\'re gonna turn the internet
into Switzerland or something.

00:16:23.467 --> 00:16:26.800
Every time I ask somebody
to define net neutrality,

00:16:26.833 --> 00:16:29.300
get a different explanation.

00:16:32.500 --> 00:16:34.333
Some people think it means

00:16:34.367 --> 00:16:36.300
that every bit of information
is gonna be treated

00:16:36.333 --> 00:16:38.467
like every other bit of information
on the internet,

00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:40.800
completely dumb pipes.

00:16:40.833 --> 00:16:43.367
But then you say,
\"Well, actually, that means

00:16:43.400 --> 00:16:45.467
\"that if you\'re doing a movie
or something,

00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:47.867
\"that\'s gonna get interrupted
by a text message that comes in.

00:16:47.900 --> 00:16:50.233
\"So you really can\'t control
the network that way,

00:16:50.267 --> 00:16:52.500
\"so would you allow them
to control the network

00:16:52.533 --> 00:16:55.000
\"for the benefit of you
being able to see your movies

00:16:55.033 --> 00:16:56.333
or get a text message?\"

00:16:56.367 --> 00:16:57.867
And they -
\"Well, yeah, that\'s okay.\"

00:16:57.900 --> 00:17:00.967
Well, then the net couldn\'t be
completely neutral.

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:02.400
It has to be smart
to some degree.

00:17:05.433 --> 00:17:07.867
- It\'s not that complicated.

00:17:07.900 --> 00:17:10.533
The community that is arguing
for net neutrality

00:17:10.567 --> 00:17:13.200
doesn\'t oppose
network management.

00:17:13.233 --> 00:17:15.733
We\'ve never argued
against network management.

00:17:15.767 --> 00:17:18.000
ISPs engage
in network management today.

00:17:18.033 --> 00:17:20.033
They should be able
to continue to do that.

00:17:20.067 --> 00:17:22.733
We\'ve just argued
against discrimination.

00:17:22.767 --> 00:17:25.400
So we think this
is a pretty simple concept.

00:17:25.433 --> 00:17:28.433
The kind of speech that is carried
over a telephone line

00:17:28.467 --> 00:17:30.133
and the legal restriction

00:17:30.167 --> 00:17:32.233
that prevents
the telephone company

00:17:32.267 --> 00:17:34.800
from interfering with those
speech rights

00:17:34.833 --> 00:17:37.500
shouldn\'t cease just because
the person hangs up their phone

00:17:37.533 --> 00:17:39.467
and decides to text
that same speech

00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:41.267
to the same person
that they were having

00:17:41.300 --> 00:17:42.967
that earlier conversation with.

00:17:47.133 --> 00:17:50.100
- In many ways, net neutrality
is a pretty easy issue.

00:17:50.133 --> 00:17:51.600
We\'re basically gonna say,

00:17:51.633 --> 00:17:53.667
\"Your job, if you\'re
an internet service provider,

00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:55.567
\"is to allow someone
to get on the internet

00:17:55.600 --> 00:17:57.867
\"either to deliver content
or to access content,

00:17:57.900 --> 00:17:59.033
as long as it\'s legal.\"

00:17:59.067 --> 00:18:00.307
That\'s what the rule should be.

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.700
- It seems to me
it\'s by the people, for the people.

00:18:08.733 --> 00:18:10.700
- How are you gonna get
that person into the street?

00:18:10.733 --> 00:18:12.567
- Don\'t you think?

00:18:21.300 --> 00:18:23.867
- In September of 2007,

00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:26.500
as a result
of all these blog postings,

00:18:26.533 --> 00:18:28.133
I started getting phone calls

00:18:28.167 --> 00:18:31.033
from things like
the Electronic Frontier Foundation

00:18:31.067 --> 00:18:32.600
and the Associated Press saying,

00:18:32.633 --> 00:18:34.233
\"We\'re very interested in this.

00:18:34.267 --> 00:18:36.000
Can you help us understand
the testing?\"

00:18:37.633 --> 00:18:41.533
Half of all geekism
is bragging about your geekdom.

00:18:41.567 --> 00:18:45.033
So I told them
how to set up the testing

00:18:45.067 --> 00:18:47.667
and what I had seen
and how to reproduce my results.

00:18:50.533 --> 00:18:52.333
But on October 4th,

00:18:52.367 --> 00:18:55.667
things like the internet
and reset packets

00:18:55.700 --> 00:18:58.833
were secondary to me.

00:19:05.033 --> 00:19:08.600
It was kind of
a slow spiral down.

00:19:08.633 --> 00:19:11.633
I was going through
a pretty strong depression.

00:19:11.667 --> 00:19:13.433
My dad had just died.

00:19:15.933 --> 00:19:18.367
I had gotten a diagnosis
of diabetes.

00:19:22.600 --> 00:19:25.200
More and more, I was missing
more and more time from work.

00:19:27.967 --> 00:19:29.033
Finally I said, \"That\'s it.

00:19:29.067 --> 00:19:32.133
I\'m not going back
until I figured out what this was.\"

00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:37.900
And then on October 4th
is when they found the cancer.

00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:43.433
What they found
was a very large, old,

00:19:43.467 --> 00:19:45.633
late-stage colon cancer.

00:19:47.633 --> 00:19:50.667
And he told me that,

00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:53.767
\"Your chances of survival
is about 15%.\"

00:19:55.867 --> 00:19:59.767
It was just -
it was - it was too sad.

00:20:04.667 --> 00:20:06.700
I kind of just withdrew.

00:20:12.167 --> 00:20:14.767
I stopped singing,

00:20:14.800 --> 00:20:16.867
\'cause I just couldn\'t
keep up with it.

00:20:21.467 --> 00:20:23.267
- I came down for the month,

00:20:23.300 --> 00:20:27.033
and he was very weak, very sick.

00:20:27.067 --> 00:20:31.200
And diagnosis was such
that it could\'ve been stage three,

00:20:31.233 --> 00:20:32.833
could\'ve even been four.

00:20:34.433 --> 00:20:38.167
He was extremely sick,
and I was extremely scared.

00:20:41.133 --> 00:20:42.733
- I was ready to sew it up,

00:20:42.767 --> 00:20:44.967
you know, make sure that my kids
were taken care of,

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.400
make sure that, you know,
my last affairs were in order.

00:20:49.433 --> 00:20:52.433
[siren wailing]

00:21:02.967 --> 00:21:05.967
[monitor beeping steadily]

00:21:08.333 --> 00:21:11.333
[beeping slows]

00:21:23.633 --> 00:21:26.633
[cell phone ringing]

00:21:39.333 --> 00:21:42.500
- The Comcast story broke
in The New York Times

00:21:42.533 --> 00:21:44.367
the day of his surgery.

00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.933
I didn\'t know
how to turn off his PDA,

00:21:46.967 --> 00:21:49.400
which was ringing constantly,

00:21:49.433 --> 00:21:51.900
and I just let it all
go to voice mail.

00:21:51.933 --> 00:21:54.533
I thought,
\"We ain\'t handling this today.\"

00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:04.600
- I came out of surgery.

00:22:04.633 --> 00:22:08.067
Of course, the phone\'s ringing,
and I get this call

00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:09.467
from Peter Svensson.

00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:12.200
He\'s the reporter with the AP.

00:22:12.233 --> 00:22:14.933
And he says, \"Well, of course,
you know the article came out.\"

00:22:14.967 --> 00:22:17.033
And I said, \"Yeah, I heard.

00:22:17.067 --> 00:22:19.567
I\'m getting
a lot of phone calls.\"

00:22:19.600 --> 00:22:22.267
You know, \"It must have run
in a lot of papers.\"

00:22:22.300 --> 00:22:24.900
And he says,
\"No, you don\'t understand.

00:22:24.933 --> 00:22:26.333
It\'s big.\"

00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:41.200
- A lot of people say that this
is about freedom of speech.

00:22:41.233 --> 00:22:45.233
But just because you\'re not allowed
to reach every network

00:22:45.267 --> 00:22:48.800
or every outlet that you want,

00:22:48.833 --> 00:22:51.467
your free speech
is not being impeded

00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:52.733
on a constitutional basis.

00:22:55.867 --> 00:22:58.233
- When someone
actually stops you

00:22:58.267 --> 00:22:59.767
from being able
to download a video

00:22:59.800 --> 00:23:02.500
or stops - you know,
blocks a certain part of a video

00:23:02.533 --> 00:23:06.833
or, you know, slows down
a certain file transfer protocol,

00:23:06.867 --> 00:23:09.000
any of those things
are very definitely

00:23:09.033 --> 00:23:10.033
First Amendment issues.

00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:12.867
- That\'s ridiculous.

00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:14.900
The Constitution was put there

00:23:14.933 --> 00:23:19.367
to protect individuals\' free speech
from the government,

00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:21.867
not broadband companies.

00:23:25.367 --> 00:23:31.967
- What we\'re really fighting for
is the right to know,

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.267
which, you know, I think
is an inalienable human right.

00:23:36.300 --> 00:23:38.467
And there are plenty of ways
to make money

00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:41.333
on serving the right to know

00:23:41.367 --> 00:23:45.767
besides trying
to make knowledge scarce.

00:23:48.767 --> 00:23:50.967
- He who controls
the information

00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.133
is gonna control the people.

00:23:53.167 --> 00:23:59.033
That\'s why our founding fathers
put specific safeguards

00:23:59.067 --> 00:24:01.667
in not the Second,
not the Fifth,

00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:03.467
not the Tenth Amendment,

00:24:03.500 --> 00:24:04.900
the First Amendment.

00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:08.533
They had just fought a war

00:24:08.567 --> 00:24:12.400
to free themselves
from the tyranny of a king,

00:24:12.433 --> 00:24:14.200
and they wanted to make sure

00:24:14.233 --> 00:24:17.300
that the people\'s rights
of freedom of expression

00:24:17.333 --> 00:24:19.333
were guaranteed.

00:24:19.367 --> 00:24:24.000
Freedom of speech comes second
only to God.

00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.500
- Well, I\'m very strong
in my faith,

00:24:37.533 --> 00:24:41.433
and I just knew
that it was gonna be okay.

00:24:41.467 --> 00:24:43.433
- It was the size
of a Nerf ball,

00:24:43.467 --> 00:24:45.900
but they were able to remove
the entire thing,

00:24:45.933 --> 00:24:49.700
and my last two tests
have come -

00:24:49.733 --> 00:24:52.067
have come back clean,

00:24:52.100 --> 00:24:55.000
and I\'m cancer-free.

00:24:55.033 --> 00:24:58.200
- And then, of course,
as soon as he got home,

00:24:58.233 --> 00:25:00.267
every call had to be answered.

00:25:00.300 --> 00:25:02.300
Every question
had to be answered.

00:25:04.800 --> 00:25:07.467
- Comcast showed us,
thanks to Robb,

00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:09.933
that the problem was very real.

00:25:09.967 --> 00:25:10.967
In internet terms,

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:12.920
this was sort of the shot heard
around the world.

00:25:16.433 --> 00:25:19.900
- It\'s a surprise to me.

00:25:19.933 --> 00:25:22.167
I published an article,

00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:25.000
and this became
a national issue.

00:25:25.033 --> 00:25:27.433
It happened
almost simultaneously

00:25:27.467 --> 00:25:30.467
as I was on the table
in the hospital.

00:25:44.433 --> 00:25:47.200
In January of \'08, the FCC said,

00:25:47.233 --> 00:25:49.267
\"We\'re going
to investigate this.\"

00:25:49.300 --> 00:25:52.200
- The first item presented
for your consideration

00:25:52.233 --> 00:25:53.500
is an order that examines

00:25:53.533 --> 00:25:56.433
whether it is a reasonable
network management practice

00:25:56.467 --> 00:25:59.033
for Comcast to interfere
with its customers\' use

00:25:59.067 --> 00:26:01.033
of peer-to-peer
networking applications

00:26:01.067 --> 00:26:03.267
or whether this practice
runs afoul

00:26:03.300 --> 00:26:04.900
of federal internet policy.

00:26:07.267 --> 00:26:12.500
- The FCC then held
public hearings at Harvard,

00:26:12.533 --> 00:26:16.267
where Comcast
loaded the hearing room

00:26:16.300 --> 00:26:18.433
with three busloads of people

00:26:18.467 --> 00:26:21.033
that they bused in from
the downtown Boston Winchell\'s

00:26:21.067 --> 00:26:23.267
or someplace.

00:26:23.300 --> 00:26:27.233
- It came out that Comcast
had paid a whole bunch of people

00:26:27.267 --> 00:26:28.800
who they picked up
off the street

00:26:28.833 --> 00:26:30.600
to come in and sit in the chairs

00:26:30.633 --> 00:26:32.700
so that the public

00:26:32.733 --> 00:26:34.773
who would by and large
be in favor of net neutrality

00:26:34.800 --> 00:26:37.000
would have nowhere to sit down
and couldn\'t come in,

00:26:37.033 --> 00:26:38.033
and in fact,

00:26:38.067 --> 00:26:39.867
several hundred people
were unable to come to the hearing

00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:41.733
because the room
was totally full,

00:26:41.767 --> 00:26:43.700
and about 2/3
of the people in the room

00:26:43.733 --> 00:26:46.533
were these paid seat fillers.

00:26:48.300 --> 00:26:50.300
- I\'ve attended
some of these FCC hearings,

00:26:50.333 --> 00:26:53.133
and I\'ve tried to follow
what\'s been going on with the FCC

00:26:53.167 --> 00:26:58.133
since about 1996 when it started
really going off the rails.

00:26:58.167 --> 00:27:00.367
There are some good people
fighting the good fight

00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.200
within the FCC.

00:27:02.233 --> 00:27:05.067
But a lot of FCC hearings
and things go on

00:27:05.100 --> 00:27:07.133
without you really knowing
that they\'re happening,

00:27:07.167 --> 00:27:10.167
and these decisions are mostly made
behind closed doors.

00:27:12.300 --> 00:27:14.167
- Fortunately in this case,

00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:17.767
the FCC decided to have
another hearing at Stanford,

00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:20.967
and I was invited
to present there.

00:27:25.667 --> 00:27:26.667
All:
♪ When no one can ♪

00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:28.067
- Block my email!

00:27:28.100 --> 00:27:30.100
All:
♪ Block my email ♪

00:27:30.133 --> 00:27:34.700
♪ When no one can block
my email ♪

00:27:34.733 --> 00:27:39.067
♪ How I want to be
in that number ♪

00:27:39.100 --> 00:27:43.700
♪ When no one can block
my email ♪

00:27:43.733 --> 00:27:47.467
[all cheering]

00:27:47.500 --> 00:27:49.333
- I actually want
to take one moment

00:27:49.367 --> 00:27:52.167
and actually thank Robb
for your role

00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:53.467
as just being an average citizen

00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:54.700
and your persistence
in being able

00:27:54.733 --> 00:27:56.200
to try to find out
what was going on.

00:27:56.233 --> 00:27:59.233
[applause]

00:28:04.733 --> 00:28:06.467
- He stood up

00:28:06.500 --> 00:28:12.100
and did what he felt
was his duty as a citizen.

00:28:12.133 --> 00:28:13.500
- Peer-to-peer is a great medium

00:28:13.533 --> 00:28:17.100
for introducing new music
to other people,

00:28:17.133 --> 00:28:19.100
and I was kind of trying
to use it

00:28:19.133 --> 00:28:22.200
to introduce old music
to other people,

00:28:22.233 --> 00:28:25.033
and show some of the style

00:28:25.067 --> 00:28:28.400
and wonderful things available
in barbershop harmony.

00:28:28.433 --> 00:28:30.400
Over the years,
I\'ve collected wonderful samples

00:28:30.433 --> 00:28:33.933
of wax cylinder recordings
and printed music

00:28:33.967 --> 00:28:35.067
that are in that style,

00:28:35.100 --> 00:28:37.233
and I wanted to use
the peer-to-peer networks

00:28:37.267 --> 00:28:39.500
to share them.

00:28:39.533 --> 00:28:41.400
- We can talk
about freedom of speech,

00:28:41.433 --> 00:28:42.967
\'cause we\'ve had
this whole discussion

00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:45.033
about freedom of speech

00:28:45.067 --> 00:28:48.433
where illegal downloading
is concerned.

00:28:48.467 --> 00:28:50.567
- For nearly ten years,

00:28:50.600 --> 00:28:52.533
I\'ve watched illegal file sharing

00:28:52.567 --> 00:28:55.400
destroy the lives
of my friends and my colleagues

00:28:55.433 --> 00:28:58.300
by depriving them
of their property, their jobs,

00:28:58.333 --> 00:29:01.533
their homes, and sometimes
even their families.

00:29:01.567 --> 00:29:03.467
Where\'s freedom of speech?
Where\'s privacy?

00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:05.933
Okay, here\'s where my line is:

00:29:05.967 --> 00:29:08.200
freedom of speech
but not free lunch.

00:29:08.233 --> 00:29:09.867
There\'s two
different things there.

00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:10.933
Well, we have a lot of people

00:29:10.967 --> 00:29:12.833
trying to carry
freedom of speech

00:29:12.867 --> 00:29:14.700
over the free lunch line.

00:29:14.733 --> 00:29:17.967
Where does the line
between information and art -

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.167
where\'s that demarcation at?

00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:20.633
Where\'s that bright line
that says,

00:29:20.667 --> 00:29:24.333
\"This is information,
and this is art\"?

00:29:24.367 --> 00:29:25.333
I got to ask you.

00:29:25.367 --> 00:29:28.933
You said that you discovered
the packet reset thing

00:29:28.967 --> 00:29:32.000
while you were trying
to swap barbershop songs, right?

00:29:32.033 --> 00:29:33.167
- That\'s right.
- Okay.

00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.467
- Did you license those songs,

00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:35.800
or do you know
who the writers were

00:29:35.833 --> 00:29:39.033
or whether they were
all public domain or -

00:29:39.067 --> 00:29:41.100
I mean, I\'m just -
it\'s a legitimate question.

00:29:41.133 --> 00:29:44.267
- Actually, the content
that I was sharing

00:29:44.300 --> 00:29:46.167
had all expired in copyright.

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:50.467
The era that I\'m talking about
is 1890 through 1910.

00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:52.433
- Okay.

00:29:52.467 --> 00:29:54.167
[cheers and applause]

00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:55.467
- Sometimes
there\'s this false construct

00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:56.533
that gets out there, though.

00:29:56.567 --> 00:29:58.000
It\'s like, well, can you have

00:29:58.033 --> 00:29:59.967
openness and neutrality
on the one hand

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.400
and can you do something
about the problem

00:30:02.433 --> 00:30:05.300
of unlicensed distribution/piracy,
you know,

00:30:05.333 --> 00:30:07.133
however you want to define that,
on the other hand?

00:30:07.167 --> 00:30:08.807
You know, how do these things
interrelate?

00:30:10.067 --> 00:30:11.700
Network neutrality\'s
about access.

00:30:11.733 --> 00:30:14.867
What you do about
unlicensed distribution of music

00:30:14.900 --> 00:30:16.433
is, in our view, about,

00:30:16.467 --> 00:30:18.567
how do you create
a legitimate digital marketplace?

00:30:22.633 --> 00:30:24.700
- The reason
it\'s such a difficult issue

00:30:24.733 --> 00:30:26.867
for people to engage with

00:30:26.900 --> 00:30:29.367
is that it gets
incredibly technical

00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:30.500
and incredibly complex,

00:30:30.533 --> 00:30:32.467
and there are
some very real reasons

00:30:32.500 --> 00:30:35.333
why some network management
needs to be done.

00:30:39.367 --> 00:30:41.367
- In the instance of Comcast,

00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.267
they were only delaying traffic
because of -

00:30:45.300 --> 00:30:47.767
because they wanted to maintain
the quality of service

00:30:47.800 --> 00:30:49.267
for all of their customers.

00:30:50.300 --> 00:30:54.367
- When you delay something,
it does eventually happen.

00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:57.067
If you block my phone call,
I get a busy signal,

00:30:57.100 --> 00:30:58.567
and in order
to make a call later,

00:30:58.600 --> 00:30:59.933
I have to dial again.

00:30:59.967 --> 00:31:01.267
That\'s not delaying.

00:31:01.300 --> 00:31:02.567
That\'s blocking,

00:31:02.600 --> 00:31:04.467
and that is roughly
what they\'re doing here.

00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:07.067
When they send
a TCP reset packet,

00:31:07.100 --> 00:31:08.967
they are actually
terminating the call.

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:13.600
It ends, and unless you call again,
it won\'t happen.

00:31:13.633 --> 00:31:16.033
- You need to remember
that this is political,

00:31:16.067 --> 00:31:17.300
and we know it.

00:31:17.333 --> 00:31:19.133
People have discovered
their voices.

00:31:19.167 --> 00:31:21.833
People have come out of the woodworks
and become activists.

00:31:21.867 --> 00:31:23.533
They are trying to stop the war.

00:31:23.567 --> 00:31:26.233
They are trying to bring justice -
environmental justice

00:31:26.267 --> 00:31:28.167
to people, and it\'s working.

00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:29.967
It\'s a powerful,
powerful entity.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:31.100
How do I know?

00:31:31.133 --> 00:31:35.000
Because Comcast, Verizon,
and AT&T want to own it.

00:31:35.033 --> 00:31:36.367
They cannot own it.

00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:38.833
It belongs to the people.

00:31:38.867 --> 00:31:40.033
[applause]

00:31:40.067 --> 00:31:41.700
- The reason
the Christian Coalition

00:31:41.733 --> 00:31:43.833
supports net neutrality
is simple.

00:31:43.867 --> 00:31:47.100
We believe that organizations
such as the Christian Coalition

00:31:47.133 --> 00:31:49.267
should be able to continue
to use the internet

00:31:49.300 --> 00:31:52.633
to communicate with our members
and with a worldwide audience

00:31:52.667 --> 00:31:54.967
without a phone
or a cable company

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:56.700
snooping in our communications

00:31:56.733 --> 00:31:58.700
and deciding whether to allow

00:31:58.733 --> 00:32:01.167
a particular communication
to proceed,

00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:04.367
slow it down, block it,
or offer to speed it up

00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.733
only if the author pays extra
to be on the fast lane.

00:32:07.767 --> 00:32:09.567
[applause]

00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:11.633
- I mean, I sat next to people

00:32:11.667 --> 00:32:14.300
from the Christian Coalition
who were talk - you know, who -

00:32:14.333 --> 00:32:17.500
with whom I could probably not
agree less on most issues,

00:32:17.533 --> 00:32:19.800
and, you know, we were,

00:32:19.833 --> 00:32:22.000
like, we had the same point of view.

00:32:22.033 --> 00:32:25.267
- We should not let the phone
and cable companies interfere

00:32:25.300 --> 00:32:27.700
with that work
in getting our message out

00:32:27.733 --> 00:32:30.300
to the millions of Americans
who want to make this country

00:32:30.333 --> 00:32:33.433
a better place for their
children and grandchildren.

00:32:33.467 --> 00:32:35.700
- When you see
the Christian Coalition

00:32:35.733 --> 00:32:39.600
and pro-choice groups
agree on something,

00:32:39.633 --> 00:32:42.767
you can be pretty sure
that that\'s, like, a -

00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:44.633
like, that\'s a real consensus.

00:32:52.167 --> 00:32:55.233
- Comcast wasn\'t evil
in what they were trying to do.

00:32:55.267 --> 00:32:58.500
What they\'ve done, however,
since then has been evil.

00:32:58.533 --> 00:33:00.467
They\'ve lied about
what they were doing.

00:33:09.233 --> 00:33:11.433
- I have to say
that in the history of the world,

00:33:11.467 --> 00:33:14.733
human beings have been brutal
to each other since day one.

00:33:16.367 --> 00:33:18.900
I think as soon as someone
figured out how to pick up a rock,

00:33:18.933 --> 00:33:20.533
they smacked somebody else
in the head with \'em.

00:33:20.567 --> 00:33:21.533
I don\'t understand it,

00:33:21.567 --> 00:33:23.733
and I don\'t think
everybody feels that way,

00:33:23.767 --> 00:33:26.600
but there\'s enough of people
out there doing that

00:33:26.633 --> 00:33:28.667
who have -
who do believe in that idea

00:33:28.700 --> 00:33:31.000
that it\'s just gonna be
a perpetual thorn in our side.

00:33:34.433 --> 00:33:37.700
- Comcast actually
pulled my résumé

00:33:37.733 --> 00:33:40.667
and my qualifications
into question,

00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:43.267
and they began to attack me.

00:33:43.300 --> 00:33:44.867
- And they said,
\"Who is this guy?

00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:46.467
\"Does he have a PhD
in engineering?

00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:47.467
\"No.

00:33:47.500 --> 00:33:48.500
\"Is he a network operator?

00:33:48.533 --> 00:33:49.500
\"No.

00:33:49.533 --> 00:33:51.367
\"Does he work on networks
every day for a living?\"

00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.700
Maybe he doesn\'t know
what he\'s talking about.\"

00:33:55.267 --> 00:33:58.167
- 99% of the people
that talk about net neutrality,

00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.333
they can\'t understand
the level of detail

00:34:01.367 --> 00:34:04.000
that this problem
is talking about,

00:34:04.033 --> 00:34:07.567
and so you can\'t have
public policy or legislation

00:34:07.600 --> 00:34:10.200
around issues
that are so complex

00:34:10.233 --> 00:34:13.800
that only 1 out of 100 experts
can really address it.

00:34:15.700 --> 00:34:17.633
- \"He\'s just a software tester.\"

00:34:17.667 --> 00:34:21.600
Well, no, I\'m a software tester
with 15 years of experience

00:34:21.633 --> 00:34:23.567
in networking products,

00:34:23.600 --> 00:34:25.967
and I nailed it.

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:26.967
I nailed it,

00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.067
and they would\'ve liked
to convince the world

00:34:29.100 --> 00:34:31.433
that I didn\'t,
that I was unqualified to do it,

00:34:31.467 --> 00:34:34.933
and it was just simply not true.

00:34:34.967 --> 00:34:37.533
- If you put yourself out like that
and you become the poster boy

00:34:37.567 --> 00:34:39.433
for a big fight
with a big company,

00:34:39.467 --> 00:34:40.967
your name is now known,

00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.133
and while some people
may be more apt to hire you,

00:34:43.167 --> 00:34:45.867
others certainly will run away
as fast as they can

00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:47.833
when you come to their door.

00:34:47.867 --> 00:34:49.867
That\'s the risk you take
when you blow the whistle.

00:34:51.633 --> 00:34:54.967
- It would probably make it
a little harder to find a job,

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.533
but this was
the right thing to do.

00:35:04.867 --> 00:35:07.133
At some point,
wouldn\'t it be nice

00:35:07.167 --> 00:35:09.433
to hear one of these companies say,
\"You know, we\'ve been wrong.

00:35:09.467 --> 00:35:12.867
We\'re sorry\"?

00:35:12.900 --> 00:35:15.033
That would be great.

00:35:15.067 --> 00:35:18.067
[thunder booming]

00:35:30.533 --> 00:35:33.333
- This to me is, like,
the perfect metaphor

00:35:33.367 --> 00:35:34.567
for the record,

00:35:34.600 --> 00:35:36.100
\'cause it\'s just a conveyance.

00:35:36.133 --> 00:35:39.333
Water runs in a river,
and it\'s free.

00:35:39.367 --> 00:35:41.967
Anybody can drink
from the river.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.133
They figured out a way
to bottle the water,

00:35:45.167 --> 00:35:47.500
and so now people
can have the water in their car,

00:35:47.533 --> 00:35:49.967
or they can take it
anywhere they want.

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.633
Same with music.

00:35:52.667 --> 00:35:54.067
It\'s not evil.
It\'s not bad.

00:35:54.100 --> 00:35:56.667
It\'s just -

00:35:56.700 --> 00:35:58.900
it is actually an opening
for serious abuse,

00:35:58.933 --> 00:36:01.233
you know, \'cause it puts them
in a position of monopoly,

00:36:01.267 --> 00:36:03.933
especially when the people,
for instance,

00:36:03.967 --> 00:36:07.267
who bottle that water
block access to the river

00:36:07.300 --> 00:36:10.100
or poison the river

00:36:10.133 --> 00:36:12.500
and make it
so you can\'t drink for free.

00:36:21.633 --> 00:36:24.600
- Media consolidation
has limited the voices

00:36:24.633 --> 00:36:25.733
over the media.

00:36:25.767 --> 00:36:27.033
People say, \"What do you mean?

00:36:27.067 --> 00:36:28.267
There\'s 300 channels.\"

00:36:28.300 --> 00:36:30.367
But they\'re really dominated
by a handful of companies

00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.367
that control the process
from the beginning to the end

00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:35.300
and put them out over
their own pipes,

00:36:35.333 --> 00:36:39.200
their own cable systems
or their own broadcast outlets.

00:36:39.233 --> 00:36:41.467
So we\'re really seeing,
while there\'s a diversity of voices,

00:36:41.500 --> 00:36:45.500
there\'s just a handful
of ventriloquists behind them.

00:36:49.600 --> 00:36:51.200
- That\'s how this works.

00:36:51.233 --> 00:36:52.400
Look at radio.

00:36:52.433 --> 00:36:54.267
Look at what\'s happened
to news coverage in this country.

00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:56.400
Look what\'s happened
in that entire industry.

00:36:56.433 --> 00:36:58.800
We\'re really
at a fork in the road.

00:36:58.833 --> 00:37:01.167
We have allowed,
through policy decisions,

00:37:01.200 --> 00:37:04.900
the two industries
that dominate access to the internet

00:37:04.933 --> 00:37:07.267
to have way too much control,
way too much power,

00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:10.100
and the ability to build and implement
business structures

00:37:10.133 --> 00:37:11.833
that can really discriminate
against artists,

00:37:11.867 --> 00:37:13.700
against small businesses,
against entrepreneurs,

00:37:13.733 --> 00:37:16.100
and against the public.

00:37:16.133 --> 00:37:17.400
- And they always have.

00:37:17.433 --> 00:37:18.500
I mean, you go back in the \'50s,

00:37:18.533 --> 00:37:20.400
there\'s, like, you know,
\"Camel presents.\"

00:37:20.433 --> 00:37:22.933
It just always -
it\'s always been -

00:37:22.967 --> 00:37:25.400
they\'ve always owned the news.

00:37:25.433 --> 00:37:28.267
Television news, movies,
TV shows, anything like that,

00:37:28.300 --> 00:37:31.967
it\'s always coming
from a perspective, a bias.

00:37:33.700 --> 00:37:35.300
- It\'s not good
for any form of media.

00:37:35.333 --> 00:37:37.367
Radio is really
the canary in the coal mine.

00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:39.733
It\'s happening to TV,
newspapers,

00:37:39.767 --> 00:37:42.533
the movie industry, all of it.

00:37:44.133 --> 00:37:46.600
Specifically, if you want to know
what happened to radio,

00:37:46.633 --> 00:37:49.400
Ronald Reagan happened to radio.

00:37:49.433 --> 00:37:54.433
Ronald Reagan deregulated
the radio business,

00:37:54.467 --> 00:37:57.033
and they changed the rules.

00:37:57.067 --> 00:38:00.600
There used to be a rule called
the seven and seven rule,

00:38:00.633 --> 00:38:04.200
and that meant
that any one person or company

00:38:04.233 --> 00:38:09.267
could not own more
than seven radio and TV stations.

00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:14.200
And that meant there was
a lot of different owners

00:38:14.233 --> 00:38:15.967
and a lot of different
points of view

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.367
and many jobs to choose from.

00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:23.667
Once they removed that
and let people buy and sell

00:38:23.700 --> 00:38:26.867
as many broadcast facilities
as they wanted to,

00:38:26.900 --> 00:38:30.800
you get more and more
radio stations

00:38:30.833 --> 00:38:33.033
owned by fewer and fewer people,

00:38:33.067 --> 00:38:34.367
and that\'s dangerous.

00:38:40.200 --> 00:38:41.700
- If you grew up
in Washington, D.C.,

00:38:41.733 --> 00:38:44.333
you know the government
is just a big business.

00:38:44.367 --> 00:38:45.367
That\'s all.

00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:46.700
If you live in L.A.,
it\'s, like - it\'s Hollywood.

00:38:46.733 --> 00:38:49.133
If you grew up in Pittsburgh,
it\'s, like, the steel companies.

00:38:49.167 --> 00:38:50.767
If you grew up in Detroit,
it\'s the auto companies.

00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.300
That\'s just a big business.

00:38:57.467 --> 00:38:58.600
- I heard someone say,

00:38:58.633 --> 00:39:01.400
\"At this point to me,
CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News

00:39:01.433 --> 00:39:03.267
\"are all state-sponsored
propaganda,

00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:04.867
and I don\'t even bother.\"

00:39:04.900 --> 00:39:06.020
That\'s kind of where I\'m at.

00:39:09.133 --> 00:39:10.767
I go a lot of places,

00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:12.267
and you get to see

00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:15.133
what globalization looks like
somewheres else.

00:39:15.167 --> 00:39:16.900
You get to see what all that

00:39:16.933 --> 00:39:20.133
\"blow \'em into the stone age, son\"
macho rhetoric does

00:39:20.167 --> 00:39:22.233
to a place like Laos or Cambodia
or Vietnam,

00:39:22.267 --> 00:39:26.367
where they\'re still
digging themselves out of it.

00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.167
And when you see that stuff,

00:39:28.200 --> 00:39:32.900
it makes that kind of macho
gung ho American thing

00:39:32.933 --> 00:39:37.233
kind of - it doesn\'t look as cool
and as sexy anymore.

00:39:37.267 --> 00:39:39.533
And if more people saw -
like, for instance,

00:39:39.567 --> 00:39:41.867
the fact
that you can\'t go on CNN

00:39:41.900 --> 00:39:45.500
and see what an American
casualty looks like.

00:39:45.533 --> 00:39:47.233
Don\'t you think you should?

00:39:47.267 --> 00:39:49.033
\"No, it\'s bad for business.\"

00:39:49.067 --> 00:39:50.067
See, that\'s just it.

00:39:50.100 --> 00:39:52.067
When you see an American kid,

00:39:52.100 --> 00:39:54.900
what a body looks like
when an IED goes through it,

00:39:54.933 --> 00:39:57.433
it\'s nothing you want
to look at, of course,

00:39:57.467 --> 00:40:00.167
but America for years has seen

00:40:00.200 --> 00:40:02.867
a very sanitized version
of this thing.

00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:07.033
And I do a lot of visits
to Walter Reed

00:40:07.067 --> 00:40:08.167
and Bethesda Naval Medical,

00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:09.933
so I meet the kids
with their faces gone,

00:40:09.967 --> 00:40:11.633
their testicles torn
from their bodies,

00:40:11.667 --> 00:40:13.633
and their legs missing,
and they\'re 22.

00:40:13.667 --> 00:40:15.567
Their lives are - you know,
they\'re in diapers, you know?

00:40:15.600 --> 00:40:17.567
I don\'t know what their lives
are gonna be like.

00:40:17.600 --> 00:40:18.800
You never get to see
any of that,

00:40:18.833 --> 00:40:20.433
because the media
doesn\'t give it to you.

00:40:20.467 --> 00:40:21.967
Oh, they could, but they don\'t,

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:23.700
because they\'re told not to,

00:40:23.733 --> 00:40:26.067
and that\'s that power
the media has

00:40:26.100 --> 00:40:28.467
to influence
how you think and feel,

00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:33.167
and if Time Warner could limit
my internet access,

00:40:33.200 --> 00:40:35.033
that is the beginning
of, like, wow,

00:40:35.067 --> 00:40:38.233
I\'m living
in an Orwellian nightmare.

00:40:38.267 --> 00:40:40.667
And I think
we\'re a good way there.

00:40:44.867 --> 00:40:47.800
- Very similar
to what\'s happened here,

00:40:47.833 --> 00:40:50.867
because the way that they chose
to interfere with us

00:40:50.900 --> 00:40:54.467
is a way that isn\'t easily
noticed by the consumer,

00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:58.500
and it isn\'t until we\'ve gone
down the road quite a ways

00:40:58.533 --> 00:40:59.767
and this kind of interference

00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:02.700
has become instilled
on the internet for a few years

00:41:02.733 --> 00:41:04.733
that maybe somebody
might notice.

00:41:11.833 --> 00:41:15.533
- Let me just ask one question.

00:41:15.567 --> 00:41:17.000
Do you see a business model

00:41:17.033 --> 00:41:18.967
where you would want to do
an exclusive

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:23.000
or, if not an exclusive,
a preferential agreement

00:41:23.033 --> 00:41:26.700
that may be
with the big record producers

00:41:26.733 --> 00:41:30.167
but not with the independent
record producers

00:41:30.200 --> 00:41:34.400
or with some in Hollywood
but not others in Hollywood?

00:41:36.833 --> 00:41:40.200
- I believe that if you have
a competitive environment,

00:41:40.233 --> 00:41:41.600
as we do today,

00:41:41.633 --> 00:41:45.733
where the barriers to investment
in offering broadband services

00:41:45.767 --> 00:41:48.067
are extraordinarily low,

00:41:48.100 --> 00:41:51.967
that as people
are investing in broadband,

00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.533
one of the ways they may
capitalize their investment

00:41:54.567 --> 00:41:56.600
is through
innovative partnerships,

00:41:56.633 --> 00:41:59.100
and therefore I think
that it would be a mistake

00:41:59.133 --> 00:42:03.300
to preemptively prohibit
innovative partnerships

00:42:03.333 --> 00:42:06.000
that may lead to our goal

00:42:06.033 --> 00:42:08.967
of increased broadband deployment
and competition.

00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.100
- His answer was very troubling
and concerning to me,

00:42:15.133 --> 00:42:16.500
and I thought it was the heart

00:42:16.533 --> 00:42:19.300
of what we\'re trying
to protect against.

00:42:19.333 --> 00:42:23.000
If the distributors,
cable and telephone companies,

00:42:23.033 --> 00:42:24.567
and their consolidation -

00:42:24.600 --> 00:42:27.533
just two Bell companies
and a handful of cable companies,

00:42:27.567 --> 00:42:30.633
and as we see
the next few years,

00:42:30.667 --> 00:42:32.167
we could come down to just

00:42:32.200 --> 00:42:34.933
two or three national
communications companies.

00:42:38.100 --> 00:42:41.233
- There are very large
economic corporations

00:42:41.267 --> 00:42:44.533
that are in the thick of things
when it comes to the internet.

00:42:44.567 --> 00:42:46.867
Now, it\'s not just the people
who are running the internet,

00:42:46.900 --> 00:42:50.333
who run the \"pipes\"
that carry the traffic,

00:42:50.367 --> 00:42:53.100
but it\'s the big companies
that provide the content,

00:42:53.133 --> 00:42:54.233
kind of increasingly,

00:42:54.267 --> 00:42:57.567
for how we finance the internet.

00:42:57.600 --> 00:42:58.967
That\'s at the heart
of this debate.

00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:00.667
At the heart of the debate,
not surprisingly,

00:43:00.700 --> 00:43:02.800
it\'s about money
and who\'s gonna make it

00:43:02.833 --> 00:43:04.000
and who\'s gonna pay it.

00:43:05.600 --> 00:43:07.500
- The telecommunications
industry,

00:43:07.533 --> 00:43:10.933
they want to not only be
the provider of the content.

00:43:10.967 --> 00:43:13.533
They want to be the only provider
of your content.

00:43:13.567 --> 00:43:17.100
They want to be the ones
to censor the content.

00:43:17.133 --> 00:43:19.567
They want to be the ones
you have to pay for the content.

00:43:19.600 --> 00:43:20.700
They want to make sure

00:43:20.733 --> 00:43:23.767
that they have special privileges
of avenues to you.

00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:25.700
They want to make sure
that there are things

00:43:25.733 --> 00:43:28.600
that you will easily
get first, second, or third,

00:43:28.633 --> 00:43:31.233
and then everybody else
has to vie for fourth, fifth,

00:43:31.267 --> 00:43:33.900
and sixth place to get to you
with their information.

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.667
- Last fall, Verizon Wireless
censored text messages

00:43:39.700 --> 00:43:41.500
sent out by NARAL.

00:43:41.533 --> 00:43:42.700
When NARAL protested,

00:43:42.733 --> 00:43:45.000
Verizon Wireless said
not to worry

00:43:45.033 --> 00:43:47.000
because the company
would also block

00:43:47.033 --> 00:43:49.700
the speech of pro-life advocates
such as the Christian Coalition.

00:43:52.100 --> 00:43:54.900
- We wanted to have
a uniform set of numbers

00:43:54.933 --> 00:43:57.800
that people could text in
to get information from us.

00:43:57.833 --> 00:43:59.200
These are people
who wanted to hear

00:43:59.233 --> 00:44:00.367
from NARAL Pro-Choice America,

00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:03.100
who had made
the decision themselves

00:44:03.133 --> 00:44:04.967
to be a part
of our organization,

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.100
and the Verizon decision
basically said

00:44:07.133 --> 00:44:08.867
that anyone
who had a Verizon phone

00:44:08.900 --> 00:44:12.367
wouldn\'t be able to participate
in any of our organization\'s

00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:15.733
text messaging programs,
for that matter.

00:44:15.767 --> 00:44:18.967
At no time would we have sent
unsolicited information to people.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:20.833
This was really an opportunity

00:44:20.867 --> 00:44:23.933
for us to connect with people
in a new way.

00:44:23.967 --> 00:44:25.767
If you want to use
your cell phone

00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:27.967
to get information
that you\'ve requested yourself,

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:29.633
you should be able to do it,

00:44:29.667 --> 00:44:32.967
and the company can\'t block you
from getting legal information,

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:35.067
especially about ways in which

00:44:35.100 --> 00:44:36.933
you can engage
in the political process.

00:44:38.967 --> 00:44:41.400
- I believe it was The New York Times
that broke the story,

00:44:41.433 --> 00:44:44.933
and Verizon immediately
reversed their position.

00:44:44.967 --> 00:44:46.567
And they reversed their position

00:44:46.600 --> 00:44:48.400
because the decision
they\'d made originally

00:44:48.433 --> 00:44:51.033
was both politically
and as a business decision

00:44:51.067 --> 00:44:53.100
a disaster.

00:44:53.133 --> 00:44:55.133
So there are
countervailing forces.

00:44:55.167 --> 00:44:58.300
I mean, these companies
can\'t just do whatever they want to

00:44:58.333 --> 00:45:00.100
and get away with it.

00:45:00.133 --> 00:45:03.733
- Okay, in general, firms,
even monopolists in some cases,

00:45:03.767 --> 00:45:05.200
have the correct incentives.

00:45:05.233 --> 00:45:07.567
Their incentives align
with those of consumers.

00:45:07.600 --> 00:45:09.900
We should not believe, okay -

00:45:09.933 --> 00:45:11.500
Do not believe for a minute

00:45:11.533 --> 00:45:13.433
that every decision
a monopolist makes

00:45:13.467 --> 00:45:15.633
or any - or really,
the field today

00:45:15.667 --> 00:45:17.067
is a little bit like
any decision

00:45:17.100 --> 00:45:20.400
any corporation makes
is anticonsumer, okay?

00:45:20.433 --> 00:45:22.100
That\'s not true, okay?

00:45:22.133 --> 00:45:23.533
It\'s just not true.

00:45:23.567 --> 00:45:25.733
They are out
to increase their profits.

00:45:25.767 --> 00:45:26.933
How do they do that?

00:45:26.967 --> 00:45:29.067
By making people happy
and getting customers.

00:45:29.100 --> 00:45:32.233
That\'s what they do, okay?

00:45:32.267 --> 00:45:33.933
I can\'t believe
people laugh at that.

00:45:33.967 --> 00:45:35.200
-Tough crowd.

00:45:35.233 --> 00:45:36.833
- Yeah.

00:45:36.867 --> 00:45:40.000
Stanford\'s
going down a little bit here.

00:45:40.033 --> 00:45:41.833
- Like, I had an argument
once with a guy

00:45:41.867 --> 00:45:44.933
who was in business school.

00:45:44.967 --> 00:45:46.367
He didn\'t believe
that there was such a thing

00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.867
as ethical business.

00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:51.833
Not - don\'t get me wrong -
or business ethics.

00:45:51.867 --> 00:45:52.833
He just didn\'t believe in it.

00:45:52.867 --> 00:45:56.733
He just said, \"A corporation
couldn\'t be unethical,

00:45:56.767 --> 00:45:59.500
because a corporation\'s
not a human being.\"

00:46:01.933 --> 00:46:04.067
- Remember, these are companies

00:46:04.100 --> 00:46:07.400
that want people
to use their networks

00:46:07.433 --> 00:46:10.700
and to transmit content
on their networks,

00:46:10.733 --> 00:46:13.100
and they make money
and make profits

00:46:13.133 --> 00:46:16.200
by attracting everybody
to their network.

00:46:16.233 --> 00:46:20.200
It would be dumb as bricks
for these companies

00:46:20.233 --> 00:46:23.933
to get a reputation
for blocking traffic

00:46:23.967 --> 00:46:27.233
for an illegal -
in an unjustified purpose.

00:46:30.600 --> 00:46:34.467
- The man is not controlling, you know,
the vertical, the horizontal,

00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:36.100
the channel
that you\'re gonna be on.

00:46:36.133 --> 00:46:40.167
I think there\'s gonna be
plenty of diversity available.

00:46:40.200 --> 00:46:43.233
- I just totally disagree
with Mr. McCurry,

00:46:43.267 --> 00:46:46.433
because, you know, how about
if the people that serve

00:46:46.467 --> 00:46:48.433
on the board of Comcast
or whomever

00:46:48.467 --> 00:46:49.867
don\'t like
what we\'re putting out.

00:46:49.900 --> 00:46:52.067
I mean, they have the ability
to block our message

00:46:52.100 --> 00:46:54.600
like they did with NARAL.

00:46:54.633 --> 00:46:58.433
- I think that, you know,
each network should have the right

00:46:58.467 --> 00:47:00.867
to be able to judge
certain content.

00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:02.767
I mean, there\'s certain kinds
of content -

00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:05.900
whether it\'s the atrocious
child pornography

00:47:05.933 --> 00:47:08.533
or if it\'s terrorist content

00:47:08.567 --> 00:47:11.800
or a predator
that\'s going after somebody.

00:47:11.833 --> 00:47:15.700
I mean, we all think
that there are types of behavior

00:47:15.733 --> 00:47:20.000
that are reprehensible
and have no place on the internet.

00:47:20.033 --> 00:47:22.100
- They always say that,

00:47:22.133 --> 00:47:23.667
\"Well, we\'re blocking
pornography,

00:47:23.700 --> 00:47:25.167
and we\'re blocking
child pornography,\"

00:47:25.200 --> 00:47:27.533
but, you know, they blocked
the King James Bible.

00:47:28.967 --> 00:47:31.267
- Our tester
made over 300 attempts

00:47:31.300 --> 00:47:33.900
to download
the King James Bible.

00:47:33.933 --> 00:47:37.933
Of 300 attempts,
276 attempts failed,

00:47:37.967 --> 00:47:40.667
a failure rate of 75.33%,

00:47:40.700 --> 00:47:43.433
whereas the download
of adult-oriented material

00:47:43.467 --> 00:47:45.267
did not fail once.

00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:48.300
[laughter and applause]

00:47:51.433 --> 00:47:52.400
- I\'ve heard them say,

00:47:52.433 --> 00:47:56.233
\"We have the right to filter
certain types of files

00:47:56.267 --> 00:47:57.800
\"because they\'re clogging
our network,

00:47:57.833 --> 00:48:01.533
and we\'re gonna slow \'em down
and move them to a later time.\"

00:48:01.567 --> 00:48:04.500
But I haven\'t heard
an ISP actually say,

00:48:04.533 --> 00:48:08.200
\"We have the right
to block content

00:48:08.233 --> 00:48:10.600
by content description.\"

00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:16.000
- ♪ Hey, teacher ♪

00:48:16.033 --> 00:48:18.867
♪ Leave those kids alone ♪

00:48:23.467 --> 00:48:27.533
♪ George Bush,
leave this world alone ♪

00:48:27.567 --> 00:48:30.200
[crowd cheering]

00:48:30.233 --> 00:48:31.700
- The one website that I know of

00:48:31.733 --> 00:48:34.300
that somebody
started saying something

00:48:34.333 --> 00:48:35.767
about George Bush or something.

00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:37.267
I think that was AT&T.

00:48:37.300 --> 00:48:40.000
But it was actually
the website operator.

00:48:40.033 --> 00:48:44.700
- ♪ George Bush,
find yourself another home ♪

00:48:54.333 --> 00:48:59.600
♪ George Bush,
leave this world alone ♪

00:49:01.633 --> 00:49:07.633
[no audio]

00:49:19.533 --> 00:49:22.533
[music resumes]

00:49:24.733 --> 00:49:27.667
- All right,
let\'s put this in perspective.

00:49:27.700 --> 00:49:31.233
Net neutrality proponents
have identified four instances

00:49:31.267 --> 00:49:32.833
which they don\'t like.

00:49:32.867 --> 00:49:34.600
Now, let\'s remember
that there are

00:49:34.633 --> 00:49:37.933
literally billions
of communications every week

00:49:37.967 --> 00:49:40.433
that are transmitted
without any problem,

00:49:40.467 --> 00:49:42.200
and they\'ve identified four.

00:49:42.233 --> 00:49:43.667
That\'s like saying,
\"Wait a minute.

00:49:43.700 --> 00:49:47.233
\"There are problems with four
grains of sand on this beach.

00:49:47.267 --> 00:49:48.800
Therefore, we need legislation.\"

00:49:51.067 --> 00:49:57.267
- We only know of a handful
of very egregious instances

00:49:57.300 --> 00:49:59.367
of blocking political speech.

00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:01.300
We know of the Pearl Jam
phenomenon

00:50:01.333 --> 00:50:04.133
because Pearl Jam
is a major rock band

00:50:04.167 --> 00:50:06.533
and that when their speech
is blocked,

00:50:06.567 --> 00:50:08.400
people are gonna know
about that.

00:50:08.433 --> 00:50:12.367
We know about Verizon Wireless
blocking NARAL

00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.367
because somebody at NARAL
just happened to be friends

00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:16.800
with a reporter
at The New York Times,

00:50:16.833 --> 00:50:19.733
and when he told that reporter
what had happened,

00:50:19.767 --> 00:50:21.433
the reporter said,
\"This is newsworthy,\"

00:50:21.467 --> 00:50:23.600
and put that on the front page
of The New York Times.

00:50:23.633 --> 00:50:25.167
We don\'t know
of all the instances

00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:27.000
where people\'s speech rights
are being blocked

00:50:27.033 --> 00:50:28.333
and we just don\'t know about it,

00:50:28.367 --> 00:50:30.200
and so having
some rules of the road

00:50:30.233 --> 00:50:32.067
that prevent that from happening
in the first place

00:50:32.100 --> 00:50:33.333
are really important.

00:50:33.367 --> 00:50:34.933
The answer that somehow
the marketplace

00:50:34.967 --> 00:50:36.067
is responding to this,

00:50:36.100 --> 00:50:37.900
that they\'ve apologized
and that they\'ve moved on,

00:50:37.933 --> 00:50:41.067
is not a satisfactory answer.

00:50:41.100 --> 00:50:43.460
They shouldn\'t have the right
to do that in the first place.

00:50:46.133 --> 00:50:48.567
- When there is
outright censorship like that,

00:50:48.600 --> 00:50:49.400
the world goes nuts.

00:50:49.433 --> 00:50:51.300
We all get really mad,

00:50:51.333 --> 00:50:53.400
until they say,
you know, \"Oh, I\'m sorry.

00:50:53.433 --> 00:50:57.267
We will never, ever block
a Pearl Jam concert again

00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:00.367
because he was talking about Bush,\"
you know?

00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:03.300
I think that\'s actually
kind of like

00:51:03.333 --> 00:51:06.000
they might just be dipping
their toes in to see -

00:51:06.033 --> 00:51:08.500
so they can give something back
in the big fight in the end.

00:51:10.333 --> 00:51:11.967
It seems to me
the much more -

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:13.133
the much more dangerous

00:51:13.167 --> 00:51:15.133
and much more
sort of insidious threat

00:51:15.167 --> 00:51:17.100
is not what they\'re
taking away now,

00:51:17.133 --> 00:51:19.367
because we all get
so mad about that.

00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:20.867
Rather, it\'s what they would
like to build

00:51:20.900 --> 00:51:23.167
and we\'ll never know what we -
what could have happened.

00:51:26.667 --> 00:51:30.133
- I have no way to tell you
what traffic-shaping technologies

00:51:30.167 --> 00:51:31.933
my provider uses on this device,

00:51:31.967 --> 00:51:36.167
because I can\'t install
an application to detect them.

00:51:36.200 --> 00:51:40.633
I don\'t know if any legitimate
text messages are being blocked,

00:51:40.667 --> 00:51:44.133
because I have no way of knowing
what messages are blocked.

00:51:44.167 --> 00:51:46.700
I can\'t even tell you
if I\'m being billed correctly,

00:51:46.733 --> 00:51:48.367
because I have no way
of downloading a record

00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:49.967
of all of my activity
from the device

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.967
to compare against my bill.

00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:54.933
- Well, I want to -

00:51:54.967 --> 00:51:57.767
I want to go back and see
if I can take another run

00:51:57.800 --> 00:51:59.700
at emphasizing
how important I think it is

00:51:59.733 --> 00:52:01.967
that we start thinking
about the right to know.

00:52:04.033 --> 00:52:07.833
If we can say to the people
that want to shut down the pipe,

00:52:07.867 --> 00:52:09.500
for whatever reason,

00:52:09.533 --> 00:52:14.133
or want to stop something
from flowing, for whatever reason,

00:52:14.167 --> 00:52:15.733
\"Are you against
the right to know,

00:52:15.767 --> 00:52:18.767
and if so, why?\"

00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:20.333
Because I think
this is something

00:52:20.367 --> 00:52:21.833
that every human being
has a right to,

00:52:21.867 --> 00:52:24.100
and it was a right
that was never promulgated

00:52:24.133 --> 00:52:26.000
because there were no means
to support it,

00:52:26.033 --> 00:52:27.533
and now that the means
are at hand,

00:52:27.567 --> 00:52:30.400
I think it\'s a - it\'s a right
that ought to be inalienable

00:52:30.433 --> 00:52:32.333
just like life and liberty.

00:52:37.600 --> 00:52:42.100
- I\'ll tell you
that that was driven home to me

00:52:42.133 --> 00:52:44.167
just the other day.

00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:47.267
During the public comment period
of that hearing at Stanford,

00:52:47.300 --> 00:52:50.900
there was a woman
from Poor News Network.

00:52:50.933 --> 00:52:53.933
- [speaking Spanish]

00:52:57.100 --> 00:52:58.667
- I\'m here to say
that we have a right

00:52:58.700 --> 00:53:01.733
to the information
provided by the internet.

00:53:01.767 --> 00:53:03.433
- And she only spoke in Spanish,

00:53:03.467 --> 00:53:09.133
and she said that she
relies on the internet

00:53:09.167 --> 00:53:13.400
in order to do her research
and to tell the stories

00:53:13.433 --> 00:53:17.267
that other press would overlook

00:53:17.300 --> 00:53:21.800
and that keeping that ability
in the internet is crucial to her.

00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:28.367
It\'s critical not just
because that\'s her job

00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:29.900
but because
that\'s her community.

00:53:29.933 --> 00:53:31.267
That\'s her world.

00:53:32.200 --> 00:53:35.200
- [speaking Spanish]

00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:44.333
- I\'m very kind of attached
to community service.

00:53:44.367 --> 00:53:46.467
I was a cop for 12 years.

00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:50.000
And when I was
in law enforcement,

00:53:50.033 --> 00:53:53.633
I had already been
very worried about something

00:53:53.667 --> 00:53:55.233
that was happening
in law enforcement

00:53:55.267 --> 00:53:57.867
called community policing.

00:53:57.900 --> 00:54:02.500
Community policing was this idea
of how to get the police involved

00:54:02.533 --> 00:54:05.100
with the community
that they served,

00:54:05.133 --> 00:54:09.200
and to me, it seemed
like it presupposed

00:54:09.233 --> 00:54:11.967
that the police
weren\'t part of the community.

00:54:13.567 --> 00:54:17.200
That was the opposite
of what I was about.

00:54:17.233 --> 00:54:20.300
I was already in
the community that I served,

00:54:20.333 --> 00:54:23.300
and so I began
to be worried about,

00:54:23.333 --> 00:54:25.033
what is happening
in law enforcement

00:54:25.067 --> 00:54:27.567
to create this impression
that we need this?

00:54:29.667 --> 00:54:31.533
Well, what was happening was,

00:54:31.567 --> 00:54:33.800
the police were getting
better equipped:

00:54:33.833 --> 00:54:36.133
kind of military uniforms
that they would wear,

00:54:36.167 --> 00:54:39.000
the larger weaponry
that they would carry.

00:54:39.033 --> 00:54:41.200
I mean, they looked military

00:54:41.233 --> 00:54:43.900
rather than looking
like police officers.

00:54:43.933 --> 00:54:46.867
And they\'re creating this wedge,

00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:49.833
this detachment away
from normal, everyday people

00:54:49.867 --> 00:54:52.400
that you\'d see on the street.

00:54:52.433 --> 00:54:55.667
Then the Rodney King incident
happened,

00:54:55.700 --> 00:54:57.833
and if there wasn\'t

00:54:57.867 --> 00:55:01.200
a community-police relations
problem then,

00:55:01.233 --> 00:55:03.200
there was after that,

00:55:03.233 --> 00:55:07.933
and about a year later
is when I left law enforcement.

00:55:10.133 --> 00:55:13.133
- [speaking Spanish]

00:55:18.600 --> 00:55:20.240
- We are the ones
trying to say the truth,

00:55:20.267 --> 00:55:22.733
and you guys should not tell us
what to do on the internet.

00:55:22.767 --> 00:55:24.233
- Thank you, Gloria.

00:55:25.167 --> 00:55:26.933
- Gloria, your time has expired.

00:55:29.267 --> 00:55:30.500
- Thank you, Gloria.

00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:32.933
- During
the public comment section,

00:55:32.967 --> 00:55:34.867
everybody has 90 seconds...

00:55:36.100 --> 00:55:38.700
And because of the interpreter,

00:55:38.733 --> 00:55:41.567
her time is cut in half

00:55:41.600 --> 00:55:45.767
because everything she says
has to be repeated.

00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:47.300
[crowd shouting]

00:55:47.333 --> 00:55:49.633
- More time!
- More time!

00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:53.567
- Be fair to her!

00:55:56.133 --> 00:56:00.267
- She worked really hard
to say her piece.

00:56:01.233 --> 00:56:06.900
If I have an opportunity
to give that information

00:56:06.933 --> 00:56:09.900
and I\'m not even
having to work hard to do it,

00:56:09.933 --> 00:56:11.633
that\'s a duty to do it.

00:56:11.667 --> 00:56:14.700
I have to do it,

00:56:14.733 --> 00:56:18.500
and, yeah, I\'m humbled by that.

00:56:18.533 --> 00:56:20.033
I\'m proud to repres -

00:56:20.067 --> 00:56:24.000
proud to represent the view

00:56:24.033 --> 00:56:26.600
that the internet
belongs to everybody.

00:56:34.933 --> 00:56:38.967
- I don\'t think
that it\'s a First Amendment issue.

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:44.433
I do think
that it is a business issue.

00:56:45.733 --> 00:56:53.733
My view on HR 5353
is not favorable,

00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:58.033
and the reason for that
is pretty simple.

00:56:58.067 --> 00:57:03.800
I think that what we need
to have is an internet

00:57:03.833 --> 00:57:06.567
where the ISPs
have the opportunity

00:57:06.600 --> 00:57:08.333
to continue to practice

00:57:08.367 --> 00:57:11.167
the regular order of business,
if you will,

00:57:11.200 --> 00:57:14.367
monitoring their networks.

00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:18.167
So we\'re going to have
a healthy debate over this,

00:57:18.200 --> 00:57:23.333
and we\'re going to decide
what is going to be

00:57:23.367 --> 00:57:25.367
the best way to move forward.

00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:30.733
I\'m one of those
that has a -

00:57:30.767 --> 00:57:34.067
I believe business,
the process of business,

00:57:34.100 --> 00:57:36.767
is going to work this out.

00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:40.667
You know, let\'s let business
make these decisions.

00:57:44.967 --> 00:57:48.667
- Well, the common
neoconservative battle cry

00:57:48.700 --> 00:57:51.233
is, like, let -
big business will take care of it.

00:57:51.267 --> 00:57:55.333
And you the consumer
will dine mightily

00:57:55.367 --> 00:57:57.167
off the crumbs that fall
from the mouths

00:57:57.200 --> 00:57:58.567
of the big guys
at the big table.

00:57:58.600 --> 00:58:01.000
You\'ll benefit from competition
and all that.

00:58:01.033 --> 00:58:02.000
Really?

00:58:02.033 --> 00:58:04.233
I think
you\'ll watch your economy

00:58:04.267 --> 00:58:05.267
go down the toilet

00:58:05.300 --> 00:58:07.767
and your jobs go to New Delhi

00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.200
and the man start looking
up your skirts.

00:58:10.233 --> 00:58:11.233
That\'s what happens.

00:58:11.267 --> 00:58:12.833
It\'s going down a drain,

00:58:12.867 --> 00:58:15.900
and you lose more and more
of what it is to be an American.

00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:19.900
- This concept
that the marketplace

00:58:19.933 --> 00:58:21.500
is somehow
gonna respond to this,

00:58:21.533 --> 00:58:23.967
that people
will curb their behavior,

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:26.433
just isn\'t
a satisfactory answer,

00:58:26.467 --> 00:58:28.233
and, you know, let\'s face it:

00:58:28.267 --> 00:58:30.833
the marketplace
isn\'t always going to protect

00:58:30.867 --> 00:58:33.500
the rights of users to engage
in their speech rights.

00:58:33.533 --> 00:58:36.467
I mean, in the civil rights era,

00:58:36.500 --> 00:58:39.867
people argued that people
might prefer to go to a hotel

00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:41.500
that only allowed whites,

00:58:41.533 --> 00:58:43.400
and that was
a marketplace response.

00:58:43.433 --> 00:58:45.933
But we don\'t - we say,
\"But that\'s wrong,

00:58:45.967 --> 00:58:48.633
\"and we don\'t care if that\'s
the right marketplace solution,

00:58:48.667 --> 00:58:50.533
\"that as a matter
of public policy,

00:58:50.567 --> 00:58:52.667
\"everyone\'s gonna have
the right to stay at a ho -

00:58:52.700 --> 00:58:53.933
a public accommodation.\"

00:58:53.967 --> 00:58:55.133
That\'s what people think about

00:58:55.167 --> 00:58:56.567
when they think about
the internet.

00:58:56.600 --> 00:58:58.667
They think of it
as a public square,

00:58:58.700 --> 00:59:00.033
a public accommodation.

00:59:03.600 --> 00:59:06.933
- Be very suspicious when,
you know, Chicken Little comes

00:59:06.967 --> 00:59:09.067
and says that the sky is falling

00:59:09.100 --> 00:59:11.267
or when the little boy
cries wolf.

00:59:11.300 --> 00:59:13.767
That\'s what\'s going on here
with net neutrality.

00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:16.000
The dangers are

00:59:16.033 --> 00:59:19.500
that they could transform
the free-market internet

00:59:19.533 --> 00:59:22.833
into a government-controlled
socialized internet

00:59:22.867 --> 00:59:26.967
that has very little incentive
economically to improve it,

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.800
add to its capacity,
or to create content.

00:59:32.367 --> 00:59:35.000
- I love the word \"socialist.\"

00:59:35.033 --> 00:59:36.333
You know,
we\'re so worried about,

00:59:36.367 --> 00:59:38.033
\"We\'re gonna become
a socialist country.

00:59:38.067 --> 00:59:41.067
\"You know, we don\'t want
the government

00:59:41.100 --> 00:59:42.933
to regulate the internet.\"

00:59:42.967 --> 00:59:45.433
Well, you know, what\'s better?

00:59:45.467 --> 00:59:49.700
Having a government
by the people, for the people,

00:59:49.733 --> 00:59:51.533
who\'s looking over these things,

00:59:51.567 --> 00:59:54.567
or having three or four
or five companies,

00:59:54.600 --> 00:59:57.567
all of which that are in cahoots
with each other,

00:59:57.600 --> 01:00:01.333
that regulate the industry
in a non-transparent way?

01:00:07.467 --> 01:00:11.267
- The telecoms in general
would like to offer things

01:00:11.300 --> 01:00:13.067
that\'ll seem
initially great to us,

01:00:13.100 --> 01:00:15.600
like, you know,
new super fast video

01:00:15.633 --> 01:00:18.033
and, you know,
instantaneous movie downloads

01:00:18.067 --> 01:00:20.200
with the little asterisk
that they get to choose

01:00:20.233 --> 01:00:22.567
what comes
through those services.

01:00:22.600 --> 01:00:24.500
So it\'s no longer like,
you go out there

01:00:24.533 --> 01:00:25.567
and find whatever you want.

01:00:25.600 --> 01:00:28.100
It\'s, you go out there
into AT&T\'s world

01:00:28.133 --> 01:00:29.867
and pick what AT&T
has offered you.

01:00:29.900 --> 01:00:32.100
And, you know,
the converse of that, of course,

01:00:32.133 --> 01:00:34.400
is that to get things
into AT&T\'s world,

01:00:34.433 --> 01:00:36.353
they\'ll be able to charge you
whatever they want.

01:00:38.433 --> 01:00:42.800
- I\'m paying Comcast to ship
my bits from my computer

01:00:42.833 --> 01:00:44.433
to wherever I want to ship \'em,

01:00:44.467 --> 01:00:46.967
and, you know,
it\'s none of their business

01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:51.100
to censor what I\'m doing.

01:00:51.133 --> 01:00:54.900
I think part of their opposition
comes from that sense that,

01:00:54.933 --> 01:00:59.000
\"How dare somebody tell us
how to run our network?\"

01:00:59.033 --> 01:01:01.133
But it\'s not their network.

01:01:09.733 --> 01:01:12.533
- Until the FCC
opened this inquiry,

01:01:12.567 --> 01:01:14.767
important decisions
about the future of the internet

01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:17.500
were being made in a black box
where the American people

01:01:17.533 --> 01:01:20.633
had precious little opportunity
to peek.

01:01:20.667 --> 01:01:23.100
After today, they will hopefully
be able to see things

01:01:23.133 --> 01:01:25.367
in a little brighter light.

01:01:27.733 --> 01:01:30.833
- \"We the people, in order
to form a more perfect union,

01:01:30.867 --> 01:01:33.767
\"establish justice,
ensure domestic tranquility,

01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:36.733
\"provide for the common defense,
promote the general welfare,

01:01:36.767 --> 01:01:38.900
\"and ensure the blessings
of liberty for ourselves

01:01:38.933 --> 01:01:40.500
\"and our posterity,

01:01:40.533 --> 01:01:43.167
\"do ordain and establish
this Constitution

01:01:43.200 --> 01:01:44.833
of the United States
of America.\"

01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:51.767
We won the case.

01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:55.533
So we\'re done.

01:01:55.567 --> 01:01:57.233
It\'s time for whatever\'s next.

01:02:25.900 --> 01:02:27.467
- Nobody thinks in Washington.

01:02:27.500 --> 01:02:31.433
They\'re all paid for,
because they\'re hired guns.

01:02:31.467 --> 01:02:33.233
Maybe most Americans
don\'t know this stuff,

01:02:33.267 --> 01:02:35.700
but you have firms
in Washington -

01:02:35.733 --> 01:02:37.267
these little boutique firms

01:02:37.300 --> 01:02:40.567
that develop this expertise
in certain areas,

01:02:40.600 --> 01:02:42.700
maybe like music or something

01:02:42.733 --> 01:02:46.200
or tobacco or utilities
or some darn thing,

01:02:46.233 --> 01:02:49.833
and then they\'re hired
by these entities

01:02:49.867 --> 01:02:53.167
to go out and pimp for them.

01:02:54.733 --> 01:02:56.000
Can I say \"pimp\"?

01:03:01.167 --> 01:03:02.500
The industry people,

01:03:02.533 --> 01:03:04.700
whether it\'s telco or music
or movies or whatever,

01:03:04.733 --> 01:03:06.033
hires these firms

01:03:06.067 --> 01:03:09.033
at $20,000, $40,000,
$60,000 a month

01:03:09.067 --> 01:03:11.800
to fight these battles
in Congress.

01:03:13.733 --> 01:03:14.900
None of it\'s about
the public interest.

01:03:14.933 --> 01:03:16.067
It\'s a competition.

01:03:16.100 --> 01:03:18.267
Congress in many ways
is a mediation service

01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:20.667
for industry battles.

01:03:20.700 --> 01:03:22.900
That\'s all.

01:03:22.933 --> 01:03:24.667
Those people don\'t care
about the public interest.

01:03:24.700 --> 01:03:26.780
They wouldn\'t know how to define
the public interest.

01:03:31.633 --> 01:03:35.300
- Wouldn\'t it be neat
if everybody in Washington

01:03:35.333 --> 01:03:38.633
who took money from a lobbyist

01:03:38.667 --> 01:03:44.500
wore a NASCAR outfit that had
that lobbyist\'s patch to it?

01:03:44.533 --> 01:03:46.000
Wouldn\'t that be neat?

01:03:46.033 --> 01:03:47.000
- [laughs]

01:03:47.033 --> 01:03:50.400
Yeah, that\'s a great idea.

01:03:50.433 --> 01:03:51.700
Yep.

01:03:51.733 --> 01:03:54.667
Yeah, I think that\'s -
that would be a wonderful idea.

01:04:02.267 --> 01:04:04.000
In a sense,
they do wear NASCAR suits.

01:04:04.033 --> 01:04:05.433
I mean, all this
is public record.

01:04:05.467 --> 01:04:09.967
You can see
who\'s getting what from whom.

01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:11.767
For some reason,
people don\'t bother with that,

01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:15.567
and I guess partly because
they really don\'t have

01:04:15.600 --> 01:04:19.267
the initiative or the time
to take a look.

01:04:25.833 --> 01:04:27.167
- When you want to understand
these issues

01:04:27.200 --> 01:04:28.267
and how Washington works,

01:04:28.300 --> 01:04:30.433
what you want to understand
are themes

01:04:30.467 --> 01:04:31.567
and how the system works

01:04:31.600 --> 01:04:32.967
and how money
and influence work.

01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:35.667
In other words,
you\'re watching this hearing.

01:04:35.700 --> 01:04:37.267
There\'ll be another hearing
in six months

01:04:37.300 --> 01:04:39.233
because the names and the actors
and the specific coalitions

01:04:39.267 --> 01:04:40.667
will change week to week.

01:04:50.500 --> 01:04:52.467
- The companies that came together
in discussions

01:04:52.500 --> 01:04:54.100
to really begin this
are companies

01:04:54.133 --> 01:04:56.233
that are increasingly
working together in this space

01:04:56.267 --> 01:04:58.900
to make sure that the American people
can get access

01:04:58.933 --> 01:05:03.833
to a growing volume of content,

01:05:03.867 --> 01:05:05.767
crossing the internet in ways

01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:10.733
that are safe, reliable,
fast, and affordable.

01:05:10.767 --> 01:05:12.967
- Sometimes you want someone
on the other side

01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:14.533
to just give you credibility.

01:05:14.567 --> 01:05:15.933
This is the same way.

01:05:15.967 --> 01:05:17.567
In a case where you would
normally think

01:05:17.600 --> 01:05:19.100
there would be a Republican,

01:05:19.133 --> 01:05:21.000
they bring in a big Democrat,

01:05:21.033 --> 01:05:22.767
because you build credibility
like that.

01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:25.600
They say, \"Look, we even
have him endorsing us.

01:05:25.633 --> 01:05:26.767
Look who\'s endorsing us.

01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.100
Look at this nice Democratic face
we have here.\"

01:05:30.133 --> 01:05:32.633
That\'s how they do it.

01:05:32.667 --> 01:05:35.667
The macro for your purposes
is more important

01:05:35.700 --> 01:05:38.700
for the viewers you will have
for this than the micro,

01:05:38.733 --> 01:05:43.500
\'cause the micro will change
depending on - it\'s situational.

01:05:43.533 --> 01:05:46.033
It\'s month to month
and year to year.

01:05:46.067 --> 01:05:49.633
But there are broad principles
in all of this that continue.

01:05:49.667 --> 01:05:53.367
- This coalition will not be
actively pursuing net neutrality

01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:56.200
for the simple reason that most
of the people in that debate

01:05:56.233 --> 01:05:58.633
believe that it\'s
more or less over now.

01:05:58.667 --> 01:05:59.633
Our companies -

01:05:59.667 --> 01:06:02.300
- Well, that\'s his way
of grasping victory

01:06:02.333 --> 01:06:04.000
from the jaws of defeat.

01:06:04.033 --> 01:06:06.200
When he left, he said,
\"I\'ve moved on.

01:06:06.233 --> 01:06:07.400
\"Net neutrality issue is over.

01:06:07.433 --> 01:06:08.833
\"It\'s done.

01:06:08.867 --> 01:06:10.500
I\'ve won.\"

01:06:10.533 --> 01:06:12.367
Clearly not over.

01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:14.900
I mean, Washington is beholden
to special interests,

01:06:14.933 --> 01:06:17.167
and it\'s just the way
business is done.

01:06:17.200 --> 01:06:19.267
People within various agencies,

01:06:19.300 --> 01:06:21.133
soon upon leaving
public service,

01:06:21.167 --> 01:06:24.500
will go right and have jobs
as high-paying lobbyists.

01:06:24.533 --> 01:06:26.067
So there\'s an incentive
in Washington

01:06:26.100 --> 01:06:28.833
for them to serve
the corporate special interests

01:06:28.867 --> 01:06:31.233
even when they\'re supposed to be
public servants,

01:06:31.267 --> 01:06:32.667
and it\'s just a -
it\'s kind of a corruption

01:06:32.700 --> 01:06:34.820
of the democratic process
that we\'re all dealing with.

01:06:43.867 --> 01:06:45.867
- All of us have a very small
influence on the world.

01:06:45.900 --> 01:06:46.867
It\'s true.

01:06:46.900 --> 01:06:49.367
Like, you know, we\'re all
tiny, tiny drops in the bucket,

01:06:49.400 --> 01:06:52.200
but participatory government
is one of those things where, like,

01:06:52.233 --> 01:06:54.333
you are this tiny drop
in a huge, huge bucket,

01:06:54.367 --> 01:06:57.633
and occasionally, like,
things may sort of line up

01:06:57.667 --> 01:06:59.200
such that you\'re making
a bigger splash

01:06:59.233 --> 01:07:01.067
than one tiny drop
normally does.

01:07:11.633 --> 01:07:13.500
- I took a position
that requires me

01:07:13.533 --> 01:07:16.000
to move to Washington, D.C.

01:07:16.033 --> 01:07:18.833
I\'ll be working
as chief technologist

01:07:18.867 --> 01:07:22.767
of the Open Technology Initiative
at New America Foundation,

01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:24.833
and they take on
a myriad of issues,

01:07:24.867 --> 01:07:27.700
one of \'em being net neutrality.

01:07:27.733 --> 01:07:30.100
It\'s good work.
It\'s important work.

01:07:30.133 --> 01:07:32.667
It\'s about the movement
to maintain

01:07:32.700 --> 01:07:34.967
a free and open internet.

01:07:38.733 --> 01:07:40.200
Every cloud has a silver lining.

01:07:40.233 --> 01:07:41.767
Every silver lining has a cloud.

01:07:44.067 --> 01:07:46.000
- Yay!

01:07:46.033 --> 01:07:49.467
- Leaving this area
is gonna be tough.

01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:51.200
I love the Northwest,

01:07:51.233 --> 01:07:53.833
and I love being near my family

01:07:53.867 --> 01:07:55.867
and, you know, the place
where your kids grew up

01:07:55.900 --> 01:07:57.400
and graduated high school and -

01:07:57.433 --> 01:07:58.733
[buzzing sound]

01:07:58.767 --> 01:08:00.833
[laughs]

01:08:00.867 --> 01:08:03.200
And where your grandkids are -

01:08:03.233 --> 01:08:05.400
your grandkids are growing up.

01:08:09.567 --> 01:08:11.433
I regret leaving here,
but I don\'t -

01:08:11.467 --> 01:08:12.767
I don\'t regret the opportunity

01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:15.067
to continue to do the work
that I\'ve been doing,

01:08:15.100 --> 01:08:19.200
to continue to work for open technologies
and the internet.

01:08:21.867 --> 01:08:24.667
I do have an attachment
to community service.

01:08:24.700 --> 01:08:27.133
I really do feel a strong need

01:08:27.167 --> 01:08:29.933
to leave things better
than I found them.

01:08:29.967 --> 01:08:32.667
We\'re not just all
in our own individual silos,

01:08:32.700 --> 01:08:36.633
but, you know, how we interact
with each other

01:08:36.667 --> 01:08:40.500
and how we help each other
when we can

01:08:40.533 --> 01:08:42.167
doesn\'t just do something
for the other.

01:08:42.200 --> 01:08:43.967
It does something for me too.

01:08:46.300 --> 01:08:48.000
- Dad\'s our hero.

01:08:48.033 --> 01:08:50.800
He believes in free internet.

01:08:50.833 --> 01:08:51.800
- Neutrality.

01:08:51.833 --> 01:08:52.800
- That too.

01:08:52.833 --> 01:08:55.200
- And he wants the internet
to be the way it\'s supposed to be.

01:08:55.233 --> 01:08:56.967
- This is Dad\'s legacy.

01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:59.233
Besides me and Heidi,

01:08:59.267 --> 01:09:01.500
this is something that he
is going to be able to share

01:09:01.533 --> 01:09:05.300
with the rest of the world,

01:09:05.333 --> 01:09:06.400
and they\'ll be able to know -

01:09:06.433 --> 01:09:07.567
- Especially, like, right now,

01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:10.133
\'cause, like, the generation
is, like, so technology-based.

01:09:10.167 --> 01:09:11.467
- Yeah.

01:09:13.200 --> 01:09:15.200
[laughter]

01:09:47.533 --> 01:09:49.333
- I\'m homesick.

01:09:49.367 --> 01:09:52.867
I\'m crabby because
I don\'t have my things,

01:09:52.900 --> 01:09:55.267
the things
that make me comfortable.

01:09:55.300 --> 01:09:56.367
Sit.

01:09:57.800 --> 01:10:00.867
Everything is gonna
kind of have to unfold

01:10:00.900 --> 01:10:03.300
so that I can get on
with my life.

01:10:05.567 --> 01:10:07.733
Eventually I\'ll be able
to go home

01:10:07.767 --> 01:10:12.833
and get my fix of my grandkids
and my kids and my mom,

01:10:12.867 --> 01:10:16.667
and, so, yeah,
I\'m certainly not on an island

01:10:16.700 --> 01:10:18.367
in the middle of the Pacific.

01:10:28.333 --> 01:10:30.367
- Ruled on the blocking
of peer-to-peer transmissions

01:10:30.400 --> 01:10:32.167
by a cable broadband provider.

01:10:32.200 --> 01:10:34.867
It was not until an engineer
and hobbyist living in Oregon

01:10:34.900 --> 01:10:36.300
brought the problem
to the attention

01:10:36.333 --> 01:10:38.367
of the media
and internet community,

01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:40.667
which then brought it
to the attention of the FCC,

01:10:40.700 --> 01:10:42.867
that the improper network
management practice became known

01:10:42.900 --> 01:10:44.233
and was stopped.

01:11:19.200 --> 01:11:20.267
- Our family was just like,

01:11:20.300 --> 01:11:22.667
the house -
the door was never closed.

01:11:22.700 --> 01:11:25.167
The lights were never off.

01:11:25.200 --> 01:11:28.233
And this idea came to my mind
that an open -

01:11:28.267 --> 01:11:30.867
like, an unlocked door means

01:11:30.900 --> 01:11:34.600
that occasionally you might get
a devil coming in.

01:11:36.033 --> 01:11:39.033
But a locked door means, like,
a thousand angels walk by.

01:11:44.900 --> 01:11:46.567
There\'s always gonna be a point
in people\'s lives

01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:48.267
where these, like,
generations come in,

01:11:48.300 --> 01:11:49.433
whether they\'re young people

01:11:49.467 --> 01:11:51.600
or just people coming
to a new sense of awareness,

01:11:51.633 --> 01:11:52.600
where they\'re like,

01:11:52.633 --> 01:11:55.833
\"We don\'t accept
what you\'re giving us,

01:11:55.867 --> 01:11:57.300
and we\'re gonna make
our own thing.\"

01:12:01.567 --> 01:12:03.567
- A lot of people in D.C.,
they walk up to you

01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:07.167
and, \"Hi, I\'m John Smith,
and I\'m the scheduler

01:12:07.200 --> 01:12:08.600
\"for Senator so-and-so,

01:12:08.633 --> 01:12:10.700
and, you know,
I can get you in,\"

01:12:10.733 --> 01:12:14.367
and, you know,
I think I\'m gonna try,

01:12:14.400 --> 01:12:15.567
\"Hi, I\'m Robb Topolski,

01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:18.633
\"and I sing baritone
in a barbershop quartet,

01:12:18.667 --> 01:12:22.100
\"and I have no particular
power to offer,

01:12:22.133 --> 01:12:23.433
but that\'s who I am.\"

01:12:25.867 --> 01:12:27.233
- And that\'s punk.

01:12:51.500 --> 01:12:54.467
[laid-back rock music]

01:12:54.500 --> 01:13:02.500
♪ ♪

01:13:29.367 --> 01:13:32.267
- ♪ When they start falling ♪

01:13:32.300 --> 01:13:35.933
♪ Executions will commence ♪

01:13:38.533 --> 01:13:42.033
♪ Sides will not matter now ♪

01:13:42.067 --> 01:13:45.433
♪ Matter makes no sense ♪

01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:52.233
♪ How did a difference ♪

01:13:52.267 --> 01:13:56.900
♪ Become a disease ♪

01:13:56.933 --> 01:14:00.400
♪ I\'m sure you have reasons ♪

01:14:00.433 --> 01:14:03.633
♪ A rational defense ♪

01:14:06.267 --> 01:14:09.767
♪ Weapons and motives ♪

01:14:09.800 --> 01:14:13.067
♪ Bloody fingerprints ♪

01:14:15.333 --> 01:14:17.933
♪ But I can\'t help thinking ♪

01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:22.733
♪ It\'s still all disease ♪

01:14:24.367 --> 01:14:27.233
♪ Here comes the argument ♪

01:14:28.933 --> 01:14:31.767
♪ Here comes the argument ♪

01:14:33.500 --> 01:14:36.433
♪ Here comes the argument ♪

01:14:38.033 --> 01:14:40.900
♪ Folderol ♪

01:14:42.667 --> 01:14:46.300
♪ It\'s all about strikes now ♪

01:14:46.333 --> 01:14:49.533
♪ So here\'s what\'s striking me ♪

01:14:52.033 --> 01:14:55.467
♪ That some punk could argue ♪

01:14:55.500 --> 01:14:59.100
♪ Some moral ABCs ♪

01:15:01.333 --> 01:15:06.033
♪ When people are catching ♪

01:15:06.067 --> 01:15:08.500
♪ What bombers release ♪

01:15:10.500 --> 01:15:15.067
♪ Well, I\'m on a mission ♪

01:15:15.100 --> 01:15:18.133
♪ To never agree ♪

01:15:18.167 --> 01:15:26.167
♪ ♪

01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:54.500
♪ Here comes the argument ♪

01:15:56.033 --> 01:15:58.967
♪ Here comes the argument ♪

01:16:00.500 --> 01:16:03.433
♪ Here comes the argument ♪

01:16:04.933 --> 01:16:07.400
♪ Here comes the argument ♪

01:16:07.433 --> 01:16:12.767
♪ Here it comes ♪

01:16:12.800 --> 01:16:20.800
♪ ♪