WEBVTT

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I don't know what
Nostradamus saw

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in his visions of
Armageddon, but it

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might have been the ride from
Manhattan to Newark Airport.

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Even to a native
New Yorker like me,

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the endless
sprawling development

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and industrial commercial
frenzy feel insane.

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I simply couldn't
live like this anymore

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and finally moved to one of
the last truly wild places--

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the southwest
corner of Colorado.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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I rented a tiny
cabin in Durango.

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I can see snow covered
mountains from my porch,

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hear elk making totally
bizarre mating calls,

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and neighbors tell me
they've seen mountain lions

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and bear just yards
from where we live.

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I'm so happy here I
never want to go back.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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But I'm learning a hard lesson.

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If you love the wild,
there's no place

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market forces can't
break your heart.

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I discovered my new home is
in the midst of a development

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boom, with huge sums of money
being made in real estate.

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And the wild, even in this
rare and precious place,

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is a rapidly disappearing.

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Durango is practically
desert, so developers

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have focused their dreams
on the water supply.

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They want to trap all
that mountain snowmelt

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that floods the rivers
red in the spring

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and funnel it into
economic ventures.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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They've hatched a plan to build
a huge water project called

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the Animas-La Plata, or A-LP.

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This dam will flood
a wildlife preserve,

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creating a huge
reservoir, miles long

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and 500 feet above the river.

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Every drop of water will have
to be pumped uphill, consuming

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enough electricity for a city
of 60,000 people every year.

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They say A-LP will cost
3/4 of a billion dollars,

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but their plan is to get
the federal government

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to pay for it.

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When I arrived, I found
a Western water war

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in full swing.

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We need this project.

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I suggest you people have
bulldozers over there tomorrow.

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The people from this county
mandated you to build it.

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Why are we dicking around here?

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I didn't know that we would
have to come here and defend

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our project.

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I don't know whether you know
the Western law on water.

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You can eat my grub, you
can drink my whiskey,

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you can even mess around my
wife, but for Christ's sake,

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leave my water alone.

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I am an opponent of La Plata,
A-LP, up there in Ridges Basin,

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and I wish I could
bring about 100,

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150 of my wonderfully
stinking friends

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that are up there
grazing at this moment.

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And they are the
elk that live there.

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I came to Durango to make a life
aligned with the natural world,

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but I've been jolted
into the realm of humans

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by what's become an
obsession with A-LP.

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The dam is incredibly
controversial.

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On one side,
developers and farmers

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push for it,
because A-LP will be

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an economic boon to the region.

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On the other side,
environmentalists

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say A-LP is a tax giveaway
to developers that

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will devastate the environment.

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Their list of environmental
concerns is huge--

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flooding a wildlife preserve,
polluting the river,

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pumping so much water
out of the river

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that some native
fish go extinct.

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But their biggest concern is
that all that subsidized water

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will fuel massive development
in one of the last wild places.

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I followed this story for
seven years, and from day one,

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it was clear I needed
to meet Sam Maynes.

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A-LP's most influential
power broker.

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Because with A-LP,
all roads lead to Sam.

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At the end of the
day we're going

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to have a tremendous
water project here.

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We're going to have the
water storage, which

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is so critical to living
in our part of the country.

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So this is where
they'll build the dam.

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It'll be an earth and fill dam.

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You know?

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You can see now,
the dam is going

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to be up there pretty darn high.

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So the lake is going to be
really deep behind the dam,

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probably at least 200 feet.

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So you'll fill it from here,
all the way back down--

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All the way back and for about--

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I don't know, what, three
or four miles back that way?

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It's really kind of neat to
me to visualize having the dam

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here, because Leonard and I
both were over at the Dolores

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side of the McPhee dam
before it was built.

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And so the same type of thing.

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We went to the axis
of the McPhee dam.

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Yeah.

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And now you go over there
and there's the reservoir.

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Not too shabby.

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There's the McPhee dam, which
Sam and his friend, Leonard

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Burch, lobbied for.

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In fact, there's dams
everywhere in this area.

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Lemon, Vallecito,
Jackson Gulch, Navajo.

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Downstream is the mother of
all reservoirs, Lake Powell,

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that made so much California
development possible.

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People in the east have no idea.

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Water is everything
in the American West.

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Almost every major
river has been

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turned into a controlled
plumbing system for human use,

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completely altering
the landscape out here

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and making it possible
for so many people,

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like me, to settle in
what's basically desert.

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The battle over the
Animas River in Durango

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was so fierce because it's one
of the last major free flowing

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rivers in the Rocky Mountains.

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And here I stand, in the
middle of the drought,

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talking to Julia.

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And I'm not going
to get any wetter.

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Yeah.

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That's right.

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Sam Maynes is the lawyer for
the Southern Ute Indian tribe,

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and his friend, Leonard
Burch, is tribal chairman.

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All right.

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To help win me
over, they sent me

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to Pat Greer, a farmer
and big A-LP promoter.

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Contrary to my fears about
real estate development,

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Pat Greer assures me that
A-LP is for farmers like him.

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The only salvation in
the West is irrigation.

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This area out here,
without irrigation water,

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would be a complete desert.

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And it's almost there again
because of the lack of water.

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My dad homesteaded this
160 that I live on in 1903.

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I'm the only one of his
family that is still

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in the farming business.

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The promise of water
for this dry area

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out here motivates me
to work on this project

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as long as I can breathe.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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I feel bad that Pat
Greer's family ended up

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on such dry land.

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They've been trying to get
A-LP built for generations,

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but they can't seem to get
Congress to pay the high price

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tag.

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While farming in the desert
doesn't seem like the greatest

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idea, I'd much rather Pat Greer
use the water than developers.

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I learned, more recently,
two Indian tribes

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were brought into A-LP,
including the Southern Ute

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tribe that Sam
Maynes represents.

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You'll see a lot of those folks
that just don't want any more

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development.

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People that are moving into
this area from elsewhere.

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You say you're from New York
and California and all of that.

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Hey, I'm here.

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Let's close the gates.

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We don't want no development.

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What Mr. Maynes has
to ask himself is,

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what's going on here?

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He must feel
terrible about that.

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Working so hard, spending
all this governmental money,

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and they still
haven't got a project.

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And they can't recognize
that they got a turkey here,

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and that's why they
don't have a project.

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The Indian tribes,
the formal governments

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have said, yes, this satisfies
our demand for water rights.

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What do you want the water for?

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I'm really astonished by Mr.
Decker's lack of information

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about what the Indians
need the water for.

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The Southern Ute Indian tribe
has up to 400 million tons

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of strip minable coal.

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They have maybe up to 8
billion tons of coal out there,

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and they're going to have
that right to use that water

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to develop that coal.

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How many people in
this room, if you

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owned a billion tons
of strip minable coal,

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would choose the option
to leave it in the ground?

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[LAUGHTER]

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Let me say this.

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To all of you who
raised your hand,

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you're all
intellectually dishonest.

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That's just not true.

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People just won't
do that when they're

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faced with the economics of it.

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You know, common sense tells
me that that's baloney.

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Just absolute baloney.

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Quit interrupting me.

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I told you once, and I
want to tell you again.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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I didn't raise my hand,
but I was tempted.

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I thought A-LP was for
farmers, but I've now

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learned the Ute
tribes are proposing

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to use A-LP water for a strip
mine, two power plants, two

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golf courses, housing
developments, and a dude ranch.

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These plans ally the tribes
with all the biggest development

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interests in the Southwest.

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I've now been swept into a
pro-dam, pro-development logic

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that somehow makes my love for
what's wild and natural seem

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a marginal, crazy notion.

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My own ancestors abandoned
their traditional culture

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for the American dream.

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Why shouldn't the
tribes take advantage

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of finally being invited
to the developers table?

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They talk about one of
the reasons for the water

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was to develop the coal.

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The elders have said,
leave the coal alone.

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If you need the
coal, then it should

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be for the next generation.

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[SINGING]

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Members of the
Southern Ute tribe

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claim white developers have
co-opted their tribal council,

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turning the tribe into a tool
of development interests.

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They formed the Southern
Ute Grassroots Organization,

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or SUGO, a small but vocal group
that claims 200 tribal members

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and is fighting A-LP.

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We've worked very hard
and very diligently

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to address some of the issues
from a taxpayer viewpoint,

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from an American
Indian viewpoint.

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We wanted to have this event
because the river means

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many things to many of us.

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All of us have been
affected by it.

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Today, we wanted to say
thank you to the river.

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When we pollute the water,
when we pollute the air, when

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we pollute our own lives, if
we continue down that path,

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we will eventually
utilize all our resources.

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And then we'll be
left with nothing.

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And where can we go after that?

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I truly believe in my
heart that the Ute people

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were put here to be the
guardians of the rivers.

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To Ute people, water
is a source of life.

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It has its own energy.

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It dictates how we live
and where we'll live.

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I live and breathe the struggle
against Animas-La Plata.

00:14:11.350 --> 00:14:14.350
SUGO has formed an alliance
with white environmental and

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taxpayer groups, jump-starting
the campaign against A-LP.

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With SUGO against
the project, it

00:14:21.280 --> 00:14:25.300
seems the battle over A-LP
on and off the reservation

00:14:25.300 --> 00:14:28.210
is a naked struggle over values.

00:14:28.210 --> 00:14:31.600
Do we want more development
and the money it brings,

00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:36.318
or do we want to preserve
what wildlands remain?

00:14:36.318 --> 00:14:39.762
[MUSIC PLAYING]

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I met Mike Black,
one of SUGO's allies.

00:15:06.430 --> 00:15:08.380
He's a raft guide
on the Animas River

00:15:08.380 --> 00:15:11.330
who drives buses in the winter.

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You want to be introduced
to the dogs here?

00:15:13.260 --> 00:15:14.060
Yeah, please.

00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:16.610
He's chosen to forego
a regular career,

00:15:16.610 --> 00:15:19.520
volunteering his time
instead to fighting A-LP.

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Watch it.

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He will take off.

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He's been in the
fight over 20 years.

00:15:25.680 --> 00:15:26.180
Yeah.

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We're trailer trash,
and we're proud of it.

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Yeah.

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You tell them that.

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This is a good
trailer coonhound.

00:15:37.540 --> 00:15:38.970
Black and tan coonhound.

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Bobba, get out of there.

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What was behind the
Animas-La Plata project,

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from the beginning,
was development.

00:15:45.280 --> 00:15:46.270
Pure and simple.

00:15:46.270 --> 00:15:50.500
To make a whole lot of money
for a select group of people.

00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:54.970
Land developers or landowners
raiding the federal treasury

00:15:54.970 --> 00:15:57.370
to make a group of people rich.

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But it's a project being
built to support this kind

00:16:05.650 --> 00:16:08.290
of development, absolutely.

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Will the project create
more development?

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Absolutely.

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Someone has to pay
for the water supply.

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I mean, that's
the only rationale

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for that amount of water.

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They want to turn
Durango into Los Angeles.

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With so much at stake,
I decided to explore

00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:36.910
the alliance between
environmentalists and SUGO

00:16:36.910 --> 00:16:41.420
and found myself drawn to Sage
Remington, SUGO's spokesperson,

00:16:41.420 --> 00:16:46.540
a radical of the '60s at the
center of the A-LP fight.

00:16:46.540 --> 00:16:50.530
Seven people made a decision to
participate in Animas-La Plata.

00:16:50.530 --> 00:16:52.380
They say, in their
press releases,

00:16:52.380 --> 00:16:55.660
that it was a public process.

00:16:55.660 --> 00:16:56.202
Oh, yeah.

00:16:56.202 --> 00:16:58.660
It was the water conservancy
districts, the tribal council,

00:16:58.660 --> 00:17:01.210
seven of them, the
water attorneys,

00:17:01.210 --> 00:17:04.180
everybody else except
the general public.

00:17:04.180 --> 00:17:07.400
And they decided what
was best for the Indians.

00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:08.569
We need your help.

00:17:08.569 --> 00:17:11.589
There's an arrogance that
exists in Western water Law,

00:17:11.589 --> 00:17:14.099
in our Western water
community, and it has to stop.

00:17:18.500 --> 00:17:22.430
I remember growing up, when
certain things were inflicted

00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:25.579
upon Indian people,
and I would bring it

00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:28.250
to the non-Indian's
attention, they

00:17:28.250 --> 00:17:34.220
would always tell me,
well, be a man and take it.

00:17:34.220 --> 00:17:38.070
No one took into consideration
the feelings of the Indians,

00:17:38.070 --> 00:17:40.640
so it definitely had
an impact in terms

00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:45.680
of my role in the life and the
work that I was going to do.

00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:51.080
I have always been in opposition
to many things in the world,

00:17:51.080 --> 00:17:54.380
in my personal life, and
in my professional life.

00:17:54.380 --> 00:17:59.210
I'm a two-spirited person,
which means that I possess both

00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:01.730
the male and female spirit.

00:18:01.730 --> 00:18:06.620
Traditionally, our role was
to help facilitate change.

00:18:06.620 --> 00:18:09.680
That's a role that
I have accepted,

00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.990
but it's not an easy role.

00:18:13.990 --> 00:18:17.476
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:30.660
I need to understand the
conflict on the reservation.

00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:33.090
How have two small
Indian tribes become

00:18:33.090 --> 00:18:38.740
central to a huge water project
conceived for white settlers?

00:18:38.740 --> 00:18:41.880
Over 100 years ago,
the Colorado Ute tribes

00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:44.040
were forced to cede
the vast majority

00:18:44.040 --> 00:18:46.230
of their traditional
lands to whites

00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:49.050
for mining and settlement.

00:18:49.050 --> 00:18:52.660
On the Southern Ute Reservation,
even the small tract

00:18:52.660 --> 00:18:55.090
of land they held onto
was later opened up

00:18:55.090 --> 00:19:00.010
for homesteading so that many
whites, like farmer Pat Greer,

00:19:00.010 --> 00:19:04.230
owned ranches on
the reservation.

00:19:04.230 --> 00:19:08.310
This gave rise to
a modern water war.

00:19:08.310 --> 00:19:10.770
These farmers began
diverting all the water

00:19:10.770 --> 00:19:13.080
in the rivers for
irrigation, not

00:19:13.080 --> 00:19:15.300
thinking it legally
belonged to the Indians.

00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:21.670
Eventually, the tribe sued
the farmers, and in the 1980s,

00:19:21.670 --> 00:19:24.190
to avoid a court
battle, the farmers

00:19:24.190 --> 00:19:27.160
offered the tribes
water in A-LP,

00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.310
instead of the water
on their farms.

00:19:30.310 --> 00:19:36.070
When the tribes accepted, they
became crucial A-LP allies.

00:19:36.070 --> 00:19:41.730
But for this water deal to
stick, A-LP must be built.

00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:43.590
The groundwork for
this water deal with

00:19:43.590 --> 00:19:48.270
laid over 30 years ago when Sam
Maynes, who was the farmer's

00:19:48.270 --> 00:19:52.280
lawyer, also became
the tribes lawyer,

00:19:52.280 --> 00:19:56.550
and Leonard Burch
became tribal chairman.

00:19:56.550 --> 00:19:59.640
I don't know that I really
knew a whole lot about Indians

00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.390
or the problems that Indians
had, but I very quickly became,

00:20:03.390 --> 00:20:04.020
I think--

00:20:04.020 --> 00:20:09.210
probably very unjustified-- but
I became the expert in Colorado

00:20:09.210 --> 00:20:10.890
on Indian law.

00:20:10.890 --> 00:20:14.610
And as such, got
a huge reputation

00:20:14.610 --> 00:20:16.740
throughout the state,
primarily because there

00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:20.100
wasn't anybody else doing it.

00:20:20.100 --> 00:20:23.250
But I recognized, early
on, that the Indian people

00:20:23.250 --> 00:20:25.350
were getting a bad
deal in the development

00:20:25.350 --> 00:20:27.580
of their natural resources.

00:20:27.580 --> 00:20:29.820
25 years ago, the
Southern Ute Indian tribe

00:20:29.820 --> 00:20:31.860
had a lot of natural gas.

00:20:31.860 --> 00:20:36.527
All they did was lease the land
and then they got a royalty.

00:20:36.527 --> 00:20:38.610
I went to the tribal council
and I said, you know,

00:20:38.610 --> 00:20:40.470
this is just really
nonsense for you

00:20:40.470 --> 00:20:42.450
to just be leasing the land.

00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:45.720
Drill your own gas wells, and
operate your own gas wells,

00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.230
and give your people
employment there.

00:20:48.230 --> 00:20:50.150
And the tribal council agreed.

00:20:50.150 --> 00:20:52.200
So it was our
thinking at that time

00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:58.410
we should maintain and
control our own operation.

00:20:58.410 --> 00:21:01.320
And now they own
hundreds of gas wells,

00:21:01.320 --> 00:21:05.670
they own the majority interest
in the gas treatment facility,

00:21:05.670 --> 00:21:08.820
and they're getting paid at
every step along the way.

00:21:08.820 --> 00:21:12.530
That is the goal that we set
out, and it's working now.

00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:21.465
With Sam as lawyer for the
tribe and Leonard Burch

00:21:21.465 --> 00:21:24.780
as tribal chairman, the two
developed a close relationship

00:21:24.780 --> 00:21:27.780
over the next 30 years that
helped establish the tribe

00:21:27.780 --> 00:21:30.330
as an economic powerhouse.

00:21:30.330 --> 00:21:33.360
The Southern Ute tribe,
with 1,400 tribal members,

00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:36.660
is now worth about
$1 and 1/2 billion.

00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:39.920
Each adult gets more than
$10,000 a year in dividends,

00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:44.850
and elderly members receive
over $50,000 a year.

00:21:44.850 --> 00:21:46.980
With the tribal
governments on board,

00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:50.820
the farmers have a powerful
ally to push A-LP forward.

00:21:50.820 --> 00:21:53.340
I've seen a great deal of
progress over 32 years.

00:21:53.340 --> 00:21:57.000
It's not the same old Southern
Ute Indian tribe anymore.

00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:58.440
It's different, and it's better.

00:22:05.560 --> 00:22:08.710
Is there a gas well around
here somewhere close that we

00:22:08.710 --> 00:22:10.900
could just drive up to it?

00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:11.400
Sure.

00:22:14.684 --> 00:22:15.184
Yeah.

00:22:15.184 --> 00:22:17.592
There it is.

00:22:17.592 --> 00:22:18.980
There's the--

00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:19.760
There you go.

00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:23.900
That looks like a gas well.

00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:26.070
Dollar, dollar--

00:22:26.070 --> 00:22:27.850
Dollar, Dollar--

00:22:27.850 --> 00:22:29.810
Now $5--

00:22:29.810 --> 00:22:33.450
$5, $5.

00:22:33.450 --> 00:22:35.340
Sounds like a gas well.

00:22:35.340 --> 00:22:36.420
It looks like a gas well.

00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:37.770
Looks like a gas well.

00:22:37.770 --> 00:22:41.740
It must be a gas well.

00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:42.700
Would you say?

00:22:42.700 --> 00:22:43.270
Yeah.

00:22:43.270 --> 00:22:43.935
$10.

00:22:43.935 --> 00:22:44.435
$10.

00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.310
This is the Casino.

00:22:48.310 --> 00:22:51.910
You can see the
sign, Sky Ute Casino.

00:22:51.910 --> 00:22:55.490
It's open 24 hours a
day, seven days a week.

00:22:55.490 --> 00:22:57.460
So we--

00:22:57.460 --> 00:22:58.900
We've had it about 10 years?

00:22:58.900 --> 00:23:01.820
About 10 years now.

00:23:01.820 --> 00:23:06.150
Now, where are
those 40 new houses?

00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:07.300
Right there.

00:23:07.300 --> 00:23:08.420
Those part of them?

00:23:08.420 --> 00:23:08.920
Yeah.

00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:09.420
Part of it.

00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:11.650
Yeah.

00:23:11.650 --> 00:23:14.290
Gas is finite, and
it's going to be gone.

00:23:14.290 --> 00:23:17.570
Water will be in that
reservoir forever.

00:23:17.570 --> 00:23:21.380
It will be the financial
foundation for the Southern Ute

00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:25.850
tribe in the next 100 years.

00:23:25.850 --> 00:23:29.810
That's if A-LP is built.
While tribal members clearly

00:23:29.810 --> 00:23:32.060
benefit from the
tribe's wealth, money

00:23:32.060 --> 00:23:35.060
seems to have deepened
divisions on the reservation.

00:23:35.060 --> 00:23:38.840
Tribal members were never
given a chance to vote on A-LP,

00:23:38.840 --> 00:23:41.285
and it seems far
from a done deal.

00:23:41.285 --> 00:23:44.750
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:24:08.550 --> 00:24:12.000
You know, we pay, just for
the internal legal affairs

00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.150
of the Southern Ute tribe,
a million dollars to Mr. Sam

00:24:15.150 --> 00:24:16.320
Maynes.

00:24:16.320 --> 00:24:18.000
And there is no vision.

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.190
We do need a change
of leadership.

00:24:20.190 --> 00:24:23.460
We see decisions being
made without vision.

00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:24.820
Where are the common people?

00:24:24.820 --> 00:24:26.509
Where are the grassroots people?

00:24:26.509 --> 00:24:28.800
You certainly would not allow
your county commissioners

00:24:28.800 --> 00:24:31.020
or your town council
to make decisions

00:24:31.020 --> 00:24:35.580
on your behalf that was not
reflective of the constituency.

00:24:35.580 --> 00:24:39.870
And I think back since the
inception of the project.

00:24:39.870 --> 00:24:42.090
You can look at the
map of the reservation.

00:24:42.090 --> 00:24:44.310
I'm not going to go back
into the past history of how

00:24:44.310 --> 00:24:46.590
this land was settled,
because of all of you,

00:24:46.590 --> 00:24:50.870
collectively, share the
abundance of what has happened

00:24:50.870 --> 00:24:52.280
in the American West.

00:24:52.280 --> 00:24:54.470
But in particular, on the
Southern Ute Reservation,

00:24:54.470 --> 00:24:57.290
much of the land was
opened to settlers.

00:24:57.290 --> 00:24:58.770
We can't change that.

00:24:58.770 --> 00:25:01.730
But what we can change is
the vision and the direction

00:25:01.730 --> 00:25:03.719
that the tribe is going to go.

00:25:03.719 --> 00:25:06.653
[TRIBAL CHANTING]

00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:18.600
I believe that
the tribal council

00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:23.790
has this idea that they're
representing the people.

00:25:23.790 --> 00:25:29.610
But they never consult
with the tribal members,

00:25:29.610 --> 00:25:33.180
and they gave a lot of the
power to the attorneys.

00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:35.430
And the attorneys,
then, made a lot

00:25:35.430 --> 00:25:40.260
of decisions, which is
contrary to traditional way.

00:25:40.260 --> 00:25:43.590
You wouldn't have an
outsider coming in and making

00:25:43.590 --> 00:25:45.910
the decisions for the
good of the people.

00:25:51.470 --> 00:25:54.590
I think that, down through
the years, Leonard Burch,

00:25:54.590 --> 00:25:57.590
other members of the
council, they have asked me

00:25:57.590 --> 00:26:02.580
what I think about what
way or what direction

00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:05.390
I think the tribe ought to go
in any particular instance.

00:26:05.390 --> 00:26:08.150
I give them my opinion
about those type of things,

00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:13.350
even though, many times, it's
not strictly a legal opinion.

00:26:13.350 --> 00:26:19.340
It's my own-- what
I feel like or think

00:26:19.340 --> 00:26:21.530
might be for the best
interests of the tribe.

00:26:21.530 --> 00:26:24.830
But the bottom line
has been and always is,

00:26:24.830 --> 00:26:27.245
is that that tribal council
makes the ultimate decision.

00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:34.150
While Sam's influence
on the tribal council

00:26:34.150 --> 00:26:37.480
can't be measured, the
tribes pro-development stance

00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:39.580
certainly coincides
with Sam's view

00:26:39.580 --> 00:26:44.670
of the world, a view I
want to understand better.

00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:47.770
What I am?

00:26:47.770 --> 00:26:52.750
Well, I'm a short,
white, Anglo-Saxon male.

00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:54.875
What I am, what I am, what I am?

00:26:54.875 --> 00:26:58.120
What I am has got to
relate back to my family.

00:26:58.120 --> 00:27:00.940
Part of what formed my--

00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:03.400
I don't whether you can say
personality, or my bean,

00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:05.212
or what, but you know
when you move around

00:27:05.212 --> 00:27:06.670
when you're a little
kid and you're

00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:09.251
coming into a new
environment with new people

00:27:09.251 --> 00:27:10.750
and one thing or
another, why you've

00:27:10.750 --> 00:27:12.730
got to prove up yourself.

00:27:12.730 --> 00:27:16.630
Besides that, I came from a
macho background of hard rock

00:27:16.630 --> 00:27:18.940
mining, the Silverton miners.

00:27:18.940 --> 00:27:23.350
It was my nature to be
competitive, to try to excel,

00:27:23.350 --> 00:27:27.580
and to try to win.

00:27:27.580 --> 00:27:31.240
I think that the concept
of a large pot of money

00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:34.240
has all sorts of social
issues associated with it.

00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.820
It seems like Sam's team's been
languishing for decades, not

00:27:37.820 --> 00:27:38.320
winning.

00:27:38.320 --> 00:27:41.380
Got $6 million in
the Senate bill.

00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:45.100
We've got the very strong
language in the House.

00:27:45.100 --> 00:27:47.950
Even though promoters collect
taxes through a water district

00:27:47.950 --> 00:27:50.040
and spend that
money on lobbying,

00:27:50.040 --> 00:27:53.020
A-LP's only been getting a
few million dollars every year

00:27:53.020 --> 00:27:58.090
from Congress, never enough
to start construction.

00:27:58.090 --> 00:28:01.090
SUGO and their allies have
launched a major campaign

00:28:01.090 --> 00:28:04.300
to convince Congress
not to fund it at all.

00:28:09.448 --> 00:28:11.310
Need to put that--

00:28:11.310 --> 00:28:13.660
we could probably even
stick it right here.

00:28:13.660 --> 00:28:15.600
Is this soft enough?

00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:18.420
The Southern Ute
Grassroots Organization

00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:22.730
had to make a very
careful evaluation

00:28:22.730 --> 00:28:26.220
in terms of how we were going
to best address the issue.

00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:28.370
We had to really look
at what organizations

00:28:28.370 --> 00:28:31.940
looked at the problem from the
same perspective that we did.

00:28:31.940 --> 00:28:33.800
So consequently, we
developed alliances

00:28:33.800 --> 00:28:36.500
with a variety of
environmental groups.

00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:40.040
That does not mean that we
are all in bed together.

00:28:40.040 --> 00:28:41.770
OK?

00:28:41.770 --> 00:28:46.820
We could do maybe four
different ads with four

00:28:46.820 --> 00:28:48.077
different perspectives.

00:28:48.077 --> 00:28:49.910
One would have an
environmental perspective.

00:28:49.910 --> 00:28:51.450
One would have a
taxpayer perspective.

00:28:51.450 --> 00:28:52.908
With a point
counterpoint, we could

00:28:52.908 --> 00:28:55.920
do to a discussion between
two people, back and forth.

00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:57.470
That was what we had in mind.

00:28:57.470 --> 00:28:58.500
A man and a woman.

00:28:58.500 --> 00:28:58.850
A man and a woman?

00:28:58.850 --> 00:28:59.350
Great.

00:28:59.350 --> 00:29:01.640
And we haven't dealt
with the Indian one.

00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.670
That's a really touchy realm.

00:29:04.670 --> 00:29:07.490
What kinds of things will we
say about the Indian components

00:29:07.490 --> 00:29:09.067
in this.

00:29:09.067 --> 00:29:11.150
Well, I don't think we
need to address the Indian.

00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:14.364
This is not our purpose.

00:29:14.364 --> 00:29:16.280
I would rather not touch
the Indian component.

00:29:16.280 --> 00:29:18.530
I think we need to look
at it from a taxpayer

00:29:18.530 --> 00:29:21.921
perspective or an uneducated
taxpayer perspective.

00:29:21.921 --> 00:29:23.420
I really, quite
frankly, don't think

00:29:23.420 --> 00:29:25.790
that non-Indian's give
a shit about the Indians

00:29:25.790 --> 00:29:27.091
anyway, to be quite frank.

00:29:27.091 --> 00:29:27.590
Well--

00:29:27.590 --> 00:29:28.090
Yes.

00:29:28.090 --> 00:29:30.710
But is the
conventionalism saying,

00:29:30.710 --> 00:29:33.140
oh, we understand what
this is being built for,

00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:35.260
is Indian water clan?

00:29:35.260 --> 00:29:35.860
Right.

00:29:35.860 --> 00:29:36.810
That's been an easy--

00:29:36.810 --> 00:29:38.216
And how do we play that?

00:29:38.216 --> 00:29:39.590
--inflammatory
arguments for them

00:29:39.590 --> 00:29:42.215
to use against the
Ute proponents.

00:29:42.215 --> 00:29:43.430
I'm not going to allow that.

00:29:43.430 --> 00:29:44.530
I will not allow that.

00:29:44.530 --> 00:29:46.740
Well, we leave it alone?

00:29:46.740 --> 00:29:49.586
What is the water for
in this big bucket?

00:29:49.586 --> 00:29:51.530
Leave that alone?

00:29:51.530 --> 00:29:55.030
That's one of our
number one guns.

00:29:55.030 --> 00:29:57.580
I am not interested in
starting a civil war

00:29:57.580 --> 00:29:59.480
that you're going to
start, and then I'm

00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:00.610
going to have to clean up.

00:30:00.610 --> 00:30:02.120
And it's just as simple as that.

00:30:02.120 --> 00:30:04.636
I'm not going to
do that, you know?

00:30:04.636 --> 00:30:08.087
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:30:13.520 --> 00:30:15.950
Tribal dividends
make Sage's criticism

00:30:15.950 --> 00:30:20.620
of the tribe's development
plans a delicate dance.

00:30:20.620 --> 00:30:23.110
Still, the Southern Ute's
Grassroots Organization's

00:30:23.110 --> 00:30:27.180
joint campaign is starting
to win votes in Congress.

00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:31.750
This seems to have promoters
scrambling for a new strategy.

00:30:31.750 --> 00:30:37.030
It's very difficult
to convince Congress.

00:30:37.030 --> 00:30:40.960
The Democrats have
reached out and taken

00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:42.400
in the environmental people.

00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.760
And the environmental
people has polluted them

00:30:45.760 --> 00:30:47.830
against water projects.

00:30:47.830 --> 00:30:50.090
These Johnny-come-lately
environmentalists

00:30:50.090 --> 00:30:53.060
are saying, why do we
need another big project?

00:30:53.060 --> 00:30:56.080
And we've got to
protect the environment.

00:30:56.080 --> 00:31:01.330
We've got to protect the little
fishies, the wildlife, and all

00:31:01.330 --> 00:31:03.070
that.

00:31:03.070 --> 00:31:07.993
So I think it's getting
harder and harder in DC.

00:31:07.993 --> 00:31:11.360
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:31:14.260 --> 00:31:17.180
With the critical congressional
vote on A-LP funding

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:22.340
approaching, the proponents
unveil A-LP Light.

00:31:22.340 --> 00:31:25.250
They claim to cut the cost
from over $700 million

00:31:25.250 --> 00:31:28.985
to about $300 million.

00:31:28.985 --> 00:31:32.900
To do this, they leave the
reservoir largely intact

00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:35.280
but cut out the delivery
system to white farmers

00:31:35.280 --> 00:31:39.135
like Pat Greer, who now won't
get any new water for his farm.

00:31:42.940 --> 00:31:47.240
Today, the Ute Mountain
Utes and the Southern Utes

00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:52.550
and their non-Indian partners
and the Animas-La Plata Project

00:31:52.550 --> 00:31:55.790
are here to announce
modifications.

00:31:55.790 --> 00:32:00.080
These modifications will greatly
reduce the cost of the project

00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:06.080
and eliminate any legitimate
environmental concern.

00:32:06.080 --> 00:32:07.990
The proponents of the
Animas-La Plata Project

00:32:07.990 --> 00:32:10.250
have made a good faith
effort to come up

00:32:10.250 --> 00:32:14.090
with a new, vastly
reduced project, which

00:32:14.090 --> 00:32:17.360
cuts the cost of the
plan, including taking out

00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:21.680
the irrigated agriculture,
which removed all the questions

00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:23.165
about water quality.

00:32:23.165 --> 00:32:26.490
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:32:30.780 --> 00:32:33.290
A-LP Light sounds better.

00:32:33.290 --> 00:32:35.540
But apart from cutting
the expensive delivery

00:32:35.540 --> 00:32:39.950
system to the farmers, it
actually isn't very different.

00:32:39.950 --> 00:32:43.340
It's still a huge reservoir
500 feet above the river,

00:32:43.340 --> 00:32:45.350
requiring vast
amounts of electricity

00:32:45.350 --> 00:32:47.630
to pump the water uphill.

00:32:47.630 --> 00:32:51.460
It still floods a
wildlife preserve.

00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:54.850
The big difference is that
the farmers have been nixed,

00:32:54.850 --> 00:32:56.680
so the water will
most likely end up

00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:59.980
going to real estate and
industrial development,

00:32:59.980 --> 00:33:00.535
not farming.

00:33:03.210 --> 00:33:07.680
It's very frustrating to
see how it has turned around

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:11.580
from an irrigation project to
a project that benefits only

00:33:11.580 --> 00:33:13.780
the Indians.

00:33:13.780 --> 00:33:17.550
We still have no water, and
we have not even a hope now

00:33:17.550 --> 00:33:18.934
to get it.

00:33:18.934 --> 00:33:20.850
We're supposed to get
the project for settling

00:33:20.850 --> 00:33:24.929
these Indian water rights, but
it ended up backfiring on us,

00:33:24.929 --> 00:33:26.220
just like everything else does.

00:33:30.190 --> 00:33:32.610
But if the project
is never built,

00:33:32.610 --> 00:33:34.659
the Indians can come
in and take about all

00:33:34.659 --> 00:33:36.450
of the water that's
left in La Plata River.

00:33:36.450 --> 00:33:39.510
I mean, it would
dry our farms up.

00:33:39.510 --> 00:33:41.460
If it is built, even
this small part,

00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:45.280
they're not supposed to be able
to come in and sue for that.

00:33:45.280 --> 00:33:47.710
The Indians don't have a
corner on broken treaties.

00:33:55.560 --> 00:33:57.940
Pat Greer is left high and dry--

00:33:57.940 --> 00:33:59.820
literally.

00:33:59.820 --> 00:34:03.360
Still, the one thing he
gets if A-LP Light is built

00:34:03.360 --> 00:34:05.520
is firm rights to the
water he's already

00:34:05.520 --> 00:34:10.409
using, because the tribes will
give up their claims to it.

00:34:10.409 --> 00:34:12.719
It seems the political
clout farmers once

00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:16.050
had now rests in the hands
of real estate and energy

00:34:16.050 --> 00:34:18.420
developers.

00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:21.510
Since the reservoir is
virtually the same size,

00:34:21.510 --> 00:34:25.170
SUGO and their allies believe
A-LP Light is a political ploy

00:34:25.170 --> 00:34:27.960
to open the door to
the full project.

00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.449
They unleash a propaganda
war to defeat it.

00:34:33.730 --> 00:34:37.550
Animas-La Plata Light is
unauthorized, undefined,

00:34:37.550 --> 00:34:40.969
expensive, and will cause
serious environmental harm.

00:34:40.969 --> 00:34:42.620
The issue is not Indian water.

00:34:42.620 --> 00:34:45.320
The issue is the water buffaloes
wanting another storage

00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:46.080
reservoir.

00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:47.929
And they want it at
taxpayer's expense,

00:34:47.929 --> 00:34:50.030
and that's all it's
ever been about.

00:34:50.030 --> 00:34:51.900
Everything that happens
within the tribe

00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:53.520
has to go through
the tribal attorney.

00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:58.040
Empire magazine calls him Mr.
Water or some ridiculous name.

00:34:58.040 --> 00:34:59.270
But that's OK.

00:34:59.270 --> 00:35:03.110
We have plans for Mr. Water.

00:35:03.110 --> 00:35:05.190
We have plans for Mr. Water.

00:35:05.190 --> 00:35:07.430
If we can make a sunday
paper, all the better,

00:35:07.430 --> 00:35:10.430
because it has the
largest circulation.

00:35:10.430 --> 00:35:15.230
We're working on the press
release, but it needs changing.

00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:18.200
I feel that as a
two-spirited person,

00:35:18.200 --> 00:35:21.450
I am merely filling
an old cultural role

00:35:21.450 --> 00:35:24.080
and that is of spokesperson.

00:35:24.080 --> 00:35:28.550
If you look at much of
the history of the 1800s,

00:35:28.550 --> 00:35:32.240
when Indian tribes went
back to Washington, DC,

00:35:32.240 --> 00:35:34.280
they usually took
along someone who

00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:38.900
was articulate, who was an
integral part of the community.

00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:41.540
And in many
instances, that person

00:35:41.540 --> 00:35:43.490
was usually a
two-spirited person.

00:35:46.690 --> 00:35:48.970
This is a list of all
the men that I have had

00:35:48.970 --> 00:35:50.320
since I've been in Washington.

00:35:52.850 --> 00:35:56.200
No, what this is is a
letter from the Southern Ute

00:35:56.200 --> 00:35:57.790
Grassroots Organization.

00:35:57.790 --> 00:36:01.000
We headed off with, A-LP
is not for the Indians.

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.390
The two Indian tribes, both
of those tribal councils

00:36:04.390 --> 00:36:06.460
have said, we will
accept the water

00:36:06.460 --> 00:36:07.840
in Ridges Basin Reservoir.

00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:11.050
Now, why won't these
people accept it?

00:36:11.050 --> 00:36:12.180
Why won't they accept it?

00:36:12.180 --> 00:36:16.390
Why do they continue to
substitute their judgment

00:36:16.390 --> 00:36:21.640
about what is good for the
Indian tribes for the elected

00:36:21.640 --> 00:36:25.000
tribal council members?

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:30.130
With A-LP Light on the
table, a spin war ensues.

00:36:30.130 --> 00:36:32.410
Appreciation on behalf
of all of the members--

00:36:32.410 --> 00:36:35.410
Does not preserve wetlands,
important elk habitats,

00:36:35.410 --> 00:36:37.540
and one of the West's
last free-flowing rivers.

00:36:37.540 --> 00:36:38.532
We have no lawns.

00:36:38.532 --> 00:36:40.790
We have no trees.

00:36:40.790 --> 00:36:42.950
Both sides keep
their eyes and words

00:36:42.950 --> 00:36:46.025
on Congress, where funding
for A-LP will be decided.

00:36:46.025 --> 00:36:49.002
It's a big, fat sow of
a port-barrel boondock.

00:36:49.002 --> 00:36:50.235
It's a free ride--

00:36:50.235 --> 00:36:53.060
Due to the high cost of water
projects and the changing

00:36:53.060 --> 00:36:54.140
public attitude--

00:36:54.140 --> 00:36:56.140
The opponents are
mostly zealots, frankly,

00:36:56.140 --> 00:36:59.110
and some people who would
be classified as extremist.

00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:02.640
In some quarters I'm known
as The Million Dollar Man.

00:37:02.640 --> 00:37:04.010
I can't stay out of it.

00:37:04.010 --> 00:37:04.510
It's me.

00:37:13.150 --> 00:37:15.940
I can't believe I'm back east.

00:37:15.940 --> 00:37:19.090
My obsession with A-LP has
brought me to Washington,

00:37:19.090 --> 00:37:23.290
where Congress will be voting
on funding for A-LP Light.

00:37:23.290 --> 00:37:24.310
This is it.

00:37:24.310 --> 00:37:26.920
The fate of my new home
is about to be decided.

00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:27.833
Wave to Julia.

00:37:27.833 --> 00:37:28.333
Hi, Julia.

00:37:28.333 --> 00:37:30.029
Hi, Julia.

00:37:30.029 --> 00:37:31.570
We're back here to
see whether or not

00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:34.000
we can't bring some water
to Southwestern Colorado

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.120
and store it.

00:37:36.120 --> 00:37:38.040
I don't know if Washington
can do that or not,

00:37:38.040 --> 00:37:39.040
but we're going to see.

00:37:43.540 --> 00:37:44.040
OK.

00:37:44.040 --> 00:37:45.870
We need to probably
get moving here.

00:37:45.870 --> 00:37:49.200
Particularly the team
that has the 9:30 meeting.

00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:53.370
So we'll reconvene at
The Monocle at 11:45.

00:37:53.370 --> 00:37:54.680
Jot down good notes.

00:37:54.680 --> 00:37:55.802
Grab business [INAUDIBLE].

00:37:55.802 --> 00:37:57.460
Page team number five.

00:37:57.460 --> 00:38:01.044
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:38:01.044 --> 00:38:03.266
Chica-laca-ching,
chica-laca-chow,

00:38:03.266 --> 00:38:05.980
chica-laca-ching-ching,
chow-chow-chow--

00:38:05.980 --> 00:38:06.840
Number five.

00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:08.070
--wow-wow-wow.

00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:10.425
[LAUGHTER]

00:38:11.367 --> 00:38:13.710
He's heard everything
I have to say and more.

00:38:13.710 --> 00:38:16.160
Right, Julia?

00:38:16.160 --> 00:38:18.368
The first vote on
A-LP is in the Senate.

00:38:18.368 --> 00:38:21.840
Then, the funding bill goes to
the House of Representatives.

00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:24.510
The key to winning will
be political connections

00:38:24.510 --> 00:38:27.420
and making the best
five-minute pitch.

00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:31.430
We're talking about the
same tree, the same trunk.

00:38:31.430 --> 00:38:34.080
And what we've done is pruned
off some expensive branches

00:38:34.080 --> 00:38:35.370
and things like that.

00:38:35.370 --> 00:38:37.970
Again, we haven't committed
to either side of this issue.

00:38:37.970 --> 00:38:39.650
We're just waiting
to see what is

00:38:39.650 --> 00:38:44.790
happening as related to this
fairly contentious issue.

00:38:44.790 --> 00:38:47.850
With the Senate showdown
on A-LP approaching,

00:38:47.850 --> 00:38:50.700
raft guide Mike Black has
managed to raise the money

00:38:50.700 --> 00:38:53.706
to come to Washington too.

00:38:53.706 --> 00:38:56.770
It's 1 o'clock right now.

00:38:56.770 --> 00:39:01.920
So have you noticed how
fast everyone is here?

00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:03.220
How rushed it is?

00:39:03.220 --> 00:39:05.904
How laid back people
in Durango are?

00:39:19.512 --> 00:39:21.820
So who are you seeing?

00:39:21.820 --> 00:39:26.280
Michelle with
Strickland of Ohio.

00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:28.131
3:36 PM.

00:39:28.131 --> 00:39:32.511
So I hope she's not
upset that we're late.

00:39:32.511 --> 00:39:34.510
I got a feeling everything
in this town is late.

00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:42.870
I'm tired.

00:39:42.870 --> 00:39:44.520
I'm hungry.

00:39:44.520 --> 00:39:47.220
I'm lonely.

00:39:47.220 --> 00:39:49.650
I'm broke.

00:39:49.650 --> 00:39:52.670
I'm in the right place.

00:39:52.670 --> 00:39:55.170
This is the place to subvert
the dominant paradigm.

00:40:00.200 --> 00:40:01.540
This will not work.

00:40:01.540 --> 00:40:02.360
It will not work.

00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:03.500
It's unacceptable.

00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:05.420
This doesn't do anything for us.

00:40:05.420 --> 00:40:08.660
It leaves us holding the bag,
leaves us in a victim state,

00:40:08.660 --> 00:40:09.940
and we want to be survivors.

00:40:09.940 --> 00:40:12.012
And my people need to
make that transition.

00:40:12.012 --> 00:40:13.970
Proponents got together
and said, well, listen,

00:40:13.970 --> 00:40:16.595
we've got to do something to get
this thing off of dead center.

00:40:16.595 --> 00:40:17.270
And so we did.

00:40:17.270 --> 00:40:18.005
We pruned it.

00:40:18.005 --> 00:40:19.880
That's agreed that you've
got a good project.

00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:21.030
What's the hold up?

00:40:21.030 --> 00:40:21.530
Money?

00:40:21.530 --> 00:40:22.370
Right now?

00:40:22.370 --> 00:40:24.950
Right now, the hold up
is going to be the money

00:40:24.950 --> 00:40:26.972
and the construction start.

00:40:26.972 --> 00:40:29.180
This is the reservation here.

00:40:29.180 --> 00:40:30.920
From a cultural
perspective, there

00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:33.674
is value of the
water in the river.

00:40:33.674 --> 00:40:36.040
We want the water in the river.

00:40:36.040 --> 00:40:39.950
In that society, anything
that is free and running,

00:40:39.950 --> 00:40:41.290
channel it, use it.

00:40:41.290 --> 00:40:41.920
Right?

00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:43.610
Right.

00:40:43.610 --> 00:40:44.450
That's OK.

00:40:44.450 --> 00:40:45.680
You can do that anywhere.

00:40:45.680 --> 00:40:46.700
But this is our river.

00:40:46.700 --> 00:40:47.786
This is our water.

00:40:47.786 --> 00:40:49.160
Anybody that comes
to this office

00:40:49.160 --> 00:40:50.545
and says that they're a
member of the Southern Ute

00:40:50.545 --> 00:40:53.570
Indian tribe and they're against
the Animas-La Plata Project,

00:40:53.570 --> 00:40:56.350
you ask them have they ever been
elected to office down there.

00:40:56.350 --> 00:40:57.340
Who they speak for.

00:40:57.340 --> 00:41:00.044
But here's Leonard.

00:41:00.044 --> 00:41:02.460
He was 30 years chairman of
the Southern Ute Indian tribe.

00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:04.350
He couldn't run for
re-election last year,

00:41:04.350 --> 00:41:05.860
because they have their--

00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:09.404
Indian's have this bad habit
of monkey see, monkey do.

00:41:09.404 --> 00:41:11.570
Somebody puts in term limits
and the Indian's think,

00:41:11.570 --> 00:41:13.130
oh, well, we better
have term limits.

00:41:13.130 --> 00:41:17.700
Been working on that
project for almost 30 years,

00:41:17.700 --> 00:41:20.310
even before in the
planning stages.

00:41:20.310 --> 00:41:27.945
So I hope I can live to see it
at least start construction.

00:41:27.945 --> 00:41:32.567
Sam and I are going to be around
for the ribbon cutting too.

00:41:32.567 --> 00:41:34.400
Anyway, thanks for
taking a moment to stop--

00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:35.120
My pleasure.

00:41:35.120 --> 00:41:35.900
Nice to meet you.

00:41:35.900 --> 00:41:37.715
If you ever get out to Colorado
and the Indian reservation,

00:41:37.715 --> 00:41:39.881
why, he'll guarantee you
that you don't get scalped.

00:41:39.881 --> 00:41:40.558
OK.

00:41:40.558 --> 00:41:42.025
[LAUGHTER]

00:41:42.025 --> 00:41:45.448
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:41:56.710 --> 00:42:00.040
I really think it's very
much of a David and Goliath

00:42:00.040 --> 00:42:02.590
type of story.

00:42:02.590 --> 00:42:05.200
While they have a
budget that allows

00:42:05.200 --> 00:42:09.550
for extensive travel,
and housing, and resource

00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:14.020
development, and implementation,
from SUGO's perspective,

00:42:14.020 --> 00:42:21.530
we have a budget under $20,000.

00:42:21.530 --> 00:42:24.500
It's always been a
matter of money--

00:42:24.500 --> 00:42:26.190
dollars and cents, power.

00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:36.490
People in power use that power
to benefit themselves and not

00:42:36.490 --> 00:42:39.340
the community.

00:42:39.340 --> 00:42:42.010
That's wrong.

00:42:42.010 --> 00:42:46.900
We have a governmental
entity in Colorado

00:42:46.900 --> 00:42:49.630
that takes our tax money
and hires lobbyists

00:42:49.630 --> 00:42:53.410
to come to Washington to get
another level of our government

00:42:53.410 --> 00:42:56.790
to spend money in Colorado.

00:42:56.790 --> 00:42:58.420
And we as citizens
and taxpayers,

00:42:58.420 --> 00:43:01.870
on every level along the way,
have to hire our own people out

00:43:01.870 --> 00:43:06.550
of our own pocket in order
to fight our own government.

00:43:06.550 --> 00:43:10.510
Somehow or other, I'm not
sure how that makes sense.

00:43:10.510 --> 00:43:12.430
How rational any of this is.

00:43:16.750 --> 00:43:19.270
This is cowboys and
Indians, right here.

00:43:19.270 --> 00:43:21.126
One time, Leonard
and I were back here

00:43:21.126 --> 00:43:23.000
and these people-- well,
somebody said to us,

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.510
they said, yeah, some
people were asking us

00:43:25.510 --> 00:43:28.210
about who were those two
little fat Indians running

00:43:28.210 --> 00:43:33.192
around, referring to Leonard
and I. Two little fat Indians.

00:43:37.952 --> 00:43:40.332
You know, you say
cowboys and Indians.

00:43:40.332 --> 00:43:41.070
Used to.

00:43:41.070 --> 00:43:43.590
Now it's cowboys and
Native Americans.

00:43:43.590 --> 00:43:46.030
[LAUGHTER]

00:43:47.006 --> 00:43:48.470
We've come a long way.

00:44:00.170 --> 00:44:03.700
Indian Affairs Committee
will be in session.

00:44:03.700 --> 00:44:05.670
Ute people have maintained
their connection

00:44:05.670 --> 00:44:07.250
with the land and
water since there

00:44:07.250 --> 00:44:11.070
were loosely Confederated bands
of a people call the Nuche.

00:44:11.070 --> 00:44:13.440
We believe that rocks, trees,
the rivers, and the earth

00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:14.610
are alive.

00:44:14.610 --> 00:44:17.460
We've lost most of our land
base through violent assault

00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:20.310
and legal manipulation that
have separated the Ute's

00:44:20.310 --> 00:44:22.110
from their land and water.

00:44:22.110 --> 00:44:23.790
The current tribal
council has failed

00:44:23.790 --> 00:44:27.030
to protect our traditional Ute
culture and spiritual values

00:44:27.030 --> 00:44:29.370
and served, instead, as an
arm of the natural resource

00:44:29.370 --> 00:44:31.410
development interests,
making deals

00:44:31.410 --> 00:44:34.260
that the Southern Ute tribal
membership has never approved.

00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:35.970
Clearly, the Animas-La
Plata opponents

00:44:35.970 --> 00:44:39.720
will continue to oppose any
project that builds a water

00:44:39.720 --> 00:44:41.520
storage impoundment.

00:44:41.520 --> 00:44:44.340
Compromise simply is
not in their vocabulary.

00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:47.670
A bigger picture is whether
we ought to keep our promises.

00:44:47.670 --> 00:44:52.680
And after 474 broken treaties
by this nation towards Indians,

00:44:52.680 --> 00:44:54.974
isn't it time we kept one?

00:44:54.974 --> 00:44:56.140
The clerk will call the row.

00:44:56.140 --> 00:44:57.850
Mr. Abraham.

00:44:57.850 --> 00:45:01.180
The Senate votes to fund A-LP.

00:45:01.180 --> 00:45:03.880
This is only the
first hurdle, though.

00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:06.396
Sam and his team are now
working to bypass a vote

00:45:06.396 --> 00:45:08.770
in the House of Representatives,
where the opponents have

00:45:08.770 --> 00:45:11.410
their strongest support,
so that the Senate

00:45:11.410 --> 00:45:13.907
vote goes unchallenged.

00:45:13.907 --> 00:45:15.490
There's a good chance
that we're going

00:45:15.490 --> 00:45:17.950
to be able to get the Sierra
Club to do phone banking

00:45:17.950 --> 00:45:19.210
in the House on this vote.

00:45:19.210 --> 00:45:21.340
Good.

00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:23.710
And so we may--

00:45:23.710 --> 00:45:27.110
for folks that are
membership based groups,

00:45:27.110 --> 00:45:30.460
we may want to talk
about sharing lists.

00:45:30.460 --> 00:45:34.350
I really have no expectations
of winning in the Senate.

00:45:34.350 --> 00:45:38.290
All I was hoping for
was 40 supportive votes.

00:45:38.290 --> 00:45:40.040
In the House, that's
a different story.

00:45:40.040 --> 00:45:42.250
We've done a lot of work there.

00:45:42.250 --> 00:45:45.160
Hopefully we will win on that.

00:45:45.160 --> 00:45:47.140
We will win in the House.

00:45:47.140 --> 00:45:48.920
Will there be a
fight in the House

00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:51.160
or is the lobbying season over?

00:45:51.160 --> 00:45:54.380
No, there's not going to
be any fight in the House.

00:45:54.380 --> 00:45:56.149
That's over with.

00:45:56.149 --> 00:45:57.440
The meeting will come to order.

00:46:03.590 --> 00:46:06.020
The House will be in order.

00:46:06.020 --> 00:46:08.000
Sam Maynes was
wrong about avoiding

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.740
a vote in the House
of Representatives,

00:46:09.740 --> 00:46:13.220
where opponents had
gained the upper hand.

00:46:13.220 --> 00:46:15.260
The debate, though,
was reduced to rhetoric

00:46:15.260 --> 00:46:17.900
and confusing
parliamentary wrangling.

00:46:17.900 --> 00:46:19.640
And even a cynical
New Yorker like

00:46:19.640 --> 00:46:23.450
me was shocked to see how a
massive policy decision could

00:46:23.450 --> 00:46:26.930
be reduced to incredibly
limited questions.

00:46:26.930 --> 00:46:28.880
The tribes want real water.

00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:29.750
Wet water.

00:46:29.750 --> 00:46:32.726
Not a paper right and
the promise of cash.

00:46:32.726 --> 00:46:34.100
The tribes have
been cooperative,

00:46:34.100 --> 00:46:36.247
and they've been
remarkably patient.

00:46:36.247 --> 00:46:38.330
I think chair members are
going to want to listen.

00:46:38.330 --> 00:46:41.090
This debate occurred late
last night, it's confusing,

00:46:41.090 --> 00:46:43.280
and you need to know
what's happening.

00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:46.130
Mr. Fazio of California
offered an amendment

00:46:46.130 --> 00:46:48.380
to the DeFazio-Petri amendment.

00:46:48.380 --> 00:46:52.280
Anybody who last year voted in
the majority to not appropriate

00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:55.240
further funds for Animas-La
Plata will want to vote against

00:46:55.240 --> 00:46:55.850
Fazio--

00:46:55.850 --> 00:46:57.780
I know this is a
little confusing--

00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:01.930
and then vote for
DeFazio-Petri, Petri-DeFazio.

00:47:01.930 --> 00:47:05.096
So sorry about that.

00:47:05.096 --> 00:47:06.980
Vic goes for maximum confusion.

00:47:06.980 --> 00:47:08.630
This is obfuscation.

00:47:08.630 --> 00:47:11.270
The wording of his
amendment is obfuscation.

00:47:11.270 --> 00:47:13.970
It starts out with a limitation,
but it limits nothing.

00:47:13.970 --> 00:47:16.190
And having Mr. Fazio be
the principal sponsor

00:47:16.190 --> 00:47:17.930
is even more confusing.

00:47:17.930 --> 00:47:21.617
And people should, in principle,
vote no on the Fazio amendment.

00:47:21.617 --> 00:47:22.700
Gentleman from California.

00:47:22.700 --> 00:47:23.241
Mr. Chairman.

00:47:23.241 --> 00:47:25.370
Contrary to a rumor
circulating on the floor,

00:47:25.370 --> 00:47:28.850
this amendment is not an attempt
to clarify the pronunciation

00:47:28.850 --> 00:47:30.710
of his name and mine.

00:47:30.710 --> 00:47:35.900
But it is the Fazio substitute
to the DeFazio try amendment

00:47:35.900 --> 00:47:38.060
that we are about to vote on.

00:47:38.060 --> 00:47:40.580
Mr. Chairman-- and I
appreciate you yielding.

00:47:40.580 --> 00:47:43.520
I want to clear up the
confusion between the two names

00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:45.440
and ask the
gentlemen a question.

00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.280
If our side of the aisle wanted
to help our newest member

00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:51.230
from New Mexico,
Bill Redmond, he

00:47:51.230 --> 00:47:54.110
would vote for the Fazio
substitute to DeFazio.

00:47:57.472 --> 00:48:05.210
The Fazio Substitute passes in a
close vote, and A-LP is funded.

00:48:05.210 --> 00:48:07.910
It turns out the
introduction of A-LP Light

00:48:07.910 --> 00:48:10.670
was an incredibly
savvy move that's

00:48:10.670 --> 00:48:14.780
turned the political
winds in favor of A-LP.

00:48:14.780 --> 00:48:18.797
Does this mean that you'll
be staying home more often?

00:48:18.797 --> 00:48:20.585
[LAUGHTER]

00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:22.930
Yes.

00:48:22.930 --> 00:48:25.980
It means that I get to stay
in Colorado, where I belong,

00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:29.274
instead of having to
be in Washington, DC.

00:48:29.274 --> 00:48:32.166
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:48:40.380 --> 00:48:44.300
This all should be irrigated
and none of it we can--

00:48:44.300 --> 00:48:46.550
we haven't got water
enough to irrigate it.

00:48:46.550 --> 00:48:49.250
This time of year, if we'd
have had some big rains,

00:48:49.250 --> 00:48:52.550
why, it might have made some.

00:48:52.550 --> 00:48:54.830
Without irrigation,
it'll be zero.

00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:07.460
So have you-- have you been
to the construction site?

00:49:07.460 --> 00:49:09.324
No.

00:49:09.324 --> 00:49:10.490
I haven't been up there yet.

00:49:10.490 --> 00:49:11.360
I'm afraid to go.

00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:15.790
I'll be so mad that I won't be
able to do anything about it.

00:49:32.650 --> 00:49:35.650
He's visualizing water out here.

00:49:35.650 --> 00:49:37.870
All this water.

00:49:37.870 --> 00:49:38.830
Right?

00:49:38.830 --> 00:49:41.950
Tribal water.

00:49:41.950 --> 00:49:43.660
Yeah.

00:49:43.660 --> 00:49:45.320
So we're under water right now?

00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:46.620
Yep.

00:49:46.620 --> 00:49:49.470
We sure are.

00:49:49.470 --> 00:49:51.231
That's a big fence.

00:49:51.231 --> 00:49:51.730
Yeah.

00:49:51.730 --> 00:49:52.630
I mean, hole.

00:49:52.630 --> 00:49:53.610
Yeah, it is.

00:49:53.610 --> 00:49:54.610
It is a big hole.

00:49:58.390 --> 00:50:01.014
You betcha it's a big hole.

00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:07.700
It feels great after
all these years.

00:50:07.700 --> 00:50:12.910
you know, to see them
actually moving the dirt.

00:50:12.910 --> 00:50:17.920
Feels great to see
some dirt being moved.

00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:19.260
It's been a long time coming.

00:50:25.472 --> 00:50:26.930
Actually, it doesn't
get any better

00:50:26.930 --> 00:50:29.660
than this from our
perspective, Julia.

00:50:29.660 --> 00:50:34.220
Altogether, we've got
almost 80 or 90 years

00:50:34.220 --> 00:50:35.660
working on this Project.

00:50:35.660 --> 00:50:36.160
Right?

00:50:36.160 --> 00:50:38.500
Right.

00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:41.150
That's good.

00:50:41.150 --> 00:50:43.760
That's good.

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:49.520
It's quite a hole there.

00:50:49.520 --> 00:50:50.190
Yeah, it is.

00:50:57.200 --> 00:51:00.480
That's the dam sight down there.

00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.100
Well, aren't they going to dig--

00:51:02.100 --> 00:51:03.974
What they're doing is
they're scared to death

00:51:03.974 --> 00:51:06.385
that their appropriations
are going to get canceled.

00:51:06.385 --> 00:51:07.760
And what they're
doing is they're

00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:09.570
coming in here and
their trashing the area

00:51:09.570 --> 00:51:13.050
as fast as they can in order to
be able to go back to Congress

00:51:13.050 --> 00:51:14.850
and say, well, the
construction's started.

00:51:14.850 --> 00:51:15.920
You can't stop it now.

00:51:20.240 --> 00:51:20.740
What's that?

00:51:20.740 --> 00:51:21.940
Tread lightly on the earth?

00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:28.290
You know, they're going to
destroy 7,000 acres of wildlife

00:51:28.290 --> 00:51:29.400
habitat.

00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:33.180
But for every acre they
destroy through the reservoir,

00:51:33.180 --> 00:51:37.305
how many acres are they going
to destroy through development?

00:51:37.305 --> 00:51:40.830
And this is
absolutely senseless.

00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:47.840
I just can't get
emotional about it

00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:50.150
right now, because
they dug this.

00:51:50.150 --> 00:51:52.700
There's no way that
we can reclaim this.

00:51:52.700 --> 00:51:55.010
There's no way that
we can change this.

00:51:55.010 --> 00:51:57.510
That is the reality of it.

00:51:57.510 --> 00:52:00.140
So I can't get
emotional about it.

00:52:00.140 --> 00:52:02.120
I can't sit here
and say, oh, they're

00:52:02.120 --> 00:52:04.979
tearing up Mother Earth.

00:52:04.979 --> 00:52:08.430
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:52:29.680 --> 00:52:32.800
It's painful to me to
see all this construction

00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:35.587
in a place that once
was a wildlife preserve.

00:52:35.587 --> 00:52:39.080
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:52:55.550 --> 00:52:57.920
When I learned Sam
Maynes was sick,

00:52:57.920 --> 00:52:59.360
I wanted to see him again.

00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.890
This is my daughter, Mindy.

00:53:00.890 --> 00:53:02.240
Ricky Hat.

00:53:02.240 --> 00:53:07.030
He took me back up to
the construction site.

00:53:07.030 --> 00:53:08.470
I appreciate your doing this.

00:53:08.470 --> 00:53:11.140
I wanted my daughter and
son-in-law to see it,

00:53:11.140 --> 00:53:12.670
and my friend Ruth and Melody.

00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:17.070
Because there's a real
difference from all

00:53:17.070 --> 00:53:17.695
those pictures.

00:53:17.695 --> 00:53:19.934
I showed them those pictures
we took the last time.

00:53:19.934 --> 00:53:22.319
There's a real difference
in looking at that thing

00:53:22.319 --> 00:53:26.870
and seeing what's been
going on up there.

00:53:26.870 --> 00:53:27.638
Right there.

00:53:30.326 --> 00:53:32.970
It's a realization of dreams.

00:53:32.970 --> 00:53:36.464
I only wish Mr. Burch
was here to see it.

00:53:36.464 --> 00:53:38.846
Don't step on that.

00:53:38.846 --> 00:53:39.838
It'll blow up.

00:53:43.310 --> 00:53:47.590
Mr. Burch unfortunately had
a heart attack last July,

00:53:47.590 --> 00:53:52.120
July 30, and passed away.

00:53:52.120 --> 00:53:54.430
It was a very sad
time for everybody

00:53:54.430 --> 00:53:57.400
who knew Mr. Burch and who
supported the Animas-La Plata

00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:00.930
Project, because he was
certainly one of our strongest

00:54:00.930 --> 00:54:04.600
supporters, as was his tribe.

00:54:04.600 --> 00:54:07.650
We miss him.

00:54:07.650 --> 00:54:09.320
That was his spirit
going through here.

00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:09.900
Yeah.

00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:10.400
Yeah.

00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:12.205
He's just trying
to say something.

00:54:12.205 --> 00:54:14.330
[LAUGHS]

00:54:14.330 --> 00:54:15.390
Yeah.

00:54:15.390 --> 00:54:18.540
He's trying to say
something, Leonard.

00:54:18.540 --> 00:54:19.830
He would be delighted.

00:54:19.830 --> 00:54:21.796
You saw him last
time he was here.

00:54:21.796 --> 00:54:23.670
If he could be here
today to see all of this,

00:54:23.670 --> 00:54:26.274
why, he'd be
absolutely delighted.

00:54:26.274 --> 00:54:26.940
He really would.

00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:45.930
Sam Maynes died of
cancer less than a

00:54:45.930 --> 00:54:49.620
month after visiting the site.

00:54:49.620 --> 00:54:53.100
I've returned to New York City.

00:54:53.100 --> 00:54:54.960
Somehow, it seems
less depressing

00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:59.120
living in a place irrevocably
ravaged by development,

00:54:59.120 --> 00:55:03.500
rather than losing the wild
I love one piece at a time.

00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:10.750
[MUSIC PLAYING]