00:00:02.603 --> 00:00:05.672
(soft humming music)

00:00:16.316 --> 00:00:19.419
- [Mark] Sometimes
you have to look past

00:00:19.453 --> 00:00:23.257
every assumption that you have

00:00:23.290 --> 00:00:25.425
about who you are,

00:00:26.293 --> 00:00:28.629
about your place in the world,

00:00:28.662 --> 00:00:30.797
about what the world is,

00:00:31.865 --> 00:00:34.535
and look at everything anew

00:00:36.103 --> 00:00:38.438
in order to see something

00:00:39.673 --> 00:00:43.977
that has always been
right in front of you.

00:00:48.549 --> 00:00:50.284
Here is me.

00:00:50.317 --> 00:00:54.454
My species, Homo sapiens,
seems really confused

00:00:54.488 --> 00:00:55.822
about other species.

00:00:55.889 --> 00:00:59.426
Sometimes we act like
they're extremely important.

00:00:59.459 --> 00:01:01.929
- [Reporter] 30 people
worked for 28 hours

00:01:01.962 --> 00:01:03.964
to return the
whale to the water.

00:01:04.031 --> 00:01:08.368
- You're a good man to take
these sheep. They're rescued.

00:01:08.402 --> 00:01:11.138
What's their life
gonna look like now?

00:01:11.171 --> 00:01:13.340
- [Mark] Other times,
just the opposite.

00:01:13.373 --> 00:01:16.043
- [Person] We have good
quality fur for the consumer.

00:01:16.076 --> 00:01:18.478
- [Mark] And it seems like
this has to do with the fact

00:01:18.512 --> 00:01:21.615
that sometimes we think that
we're pretty much the same,

00:01:21.648 --> 00:01:24.852
and other times we think that
we're completely different.

00:01:24.918 --> 00:01:27.454
Do you think humans
are fundamentally

00:01:27.487 --> 00:01:30.657
or qualitatively different
from other animals?

00:01:30.691 --> 00:01:31.592
- Yes.

00:01:31.658 --> 00:01:32.526
- No.

00:01:32.593 --> 00:01:33.861
- Yeah.

00:01:33.894 --> 00:01:34.728
- [Mark] How?

00:01:36.330 --> 00:01:37.798
- I don't know.

00:01:37.831 --> 00:01:40.801
- Their arms operate in a
different manner than we do.

00:01:40.834 --> 00:01:42.336
- [Mark] And you would say

00:01:42.369 --> 00:01:44.671
that's the most significant,
sort of fundamental difference?

00:01:44.705 --> 00:01:45.973
- I would say that's probably

00:01:46.006 --> 00:01:47.808
the most fundamental
difference, yeah.

00:01:47.875 --> 00:01:50.511
- [Mark] What animals can think?

00:01:50.544 --> 00:01:51.645
- Dogs.

00:01:51.678 --> 00:01:53.080
- [Mark] Dogs can think, okay.

00:01:53.113 --> 00:01:56.683
What animals might
not be able to think?

00:01:56.717 --> 00:01:58.185
- Hamster.

00:01:58.218 --> 00:02:00.521
- Definitely animals have
more feelings than humans.

00:02:00.587 --> 00:02:02.689
- [Mark] Are our
emotions stronger

00:02:02.723 --> 00:02:05.058
or equally strong
or less strong?

00:02:05.092 --> 00:02:06.460
- In humans? Yeah.

00:02:07.861 --> 00:02:08.662
- [Mark] Sorry?

00:02:08.695 --> 00:02:09.530
- In humans? Yeah.

00:02:09.563 --> 00:02:11.265
- [Mark] In humans what?

00:02:11.298 --> 00:02:13.100
- They're more strong.

00:02:13.133 --> 00:02:14.801
- [Mark] What
makes you think so?

00:02:16.036 --> 00:02:17.004
- I'm good. (chuckles)

00:02:17.037 --> 00:02:18.739
- [Mark] Oh, okay. Thank you.

00:02:18.805 --> 00:02:22.876
So I decided to stop all the
talking and go see for myself.

00:02:22.910 --> 00:02:26.213
There's a small number of
humans who are figuring this out

00:02:26.246 --> 00:02:30.217
by studying particular
animals over a long time.

00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:33.053
So I decided to meet
them all in person,

00:02:33.086 --> 00:02:35.889
capture on camera what
they're discovering,

00:02:35.923 --> 00:02:38.559
and find out how much like us

00:02:38.592 --> 00:02:41.728
other animals really can be.

00:02:41.762 --> 00:02:43.931
But where it eventually led me

00:02:43.964 --> 00:02:45.599
was more than I bargained for.

00:02:49.603 --> 00:02:52.573
My journey began with
looking at all of us

00:02:52.606 --> 00:02:53.974
through fresh eyes.

00:02:54.007 --> 00:02:56.443
(air swooshing)

00:03:07.421 --> 00:03:09.456
(waves crashing)

00:03:16.697 --> 00:03:21.001
So tell me, doctors, how
does this story begin?

00:03:24.438 --> 00:03:27.074
- [Speaker] This far back
we're approaching the edge

00:03:27.107 --> 00:03:29.109
of our current knowledge.

00:03:29.142 --> 00:03:32.446
There are several ways the
first step could have happened,

00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:33.814
but it happened.

00:03:33.881 --> 00:03:37.351
A molecule ended up
with a composition

00:03:37.384 --> 00:03:41.822
that caused it to make copies
of itself, to replicate.

00:03:41.855 --> 00:03:44.491
(tense music)

00:03:46.927 --> 00:03:49.196
- [Speaker] Sometimes
slight copying errors

00:03:49.229 --> 00:03:52.132
resulted in differences
such as a new version

00:03:52.165 --> 00:03:53.800
of the molecule that happened

00:03:53.834 --> 00:03:56.470
to replicate faster than others.

00:03:56.537 --> 00:03:59.439
- [Speaker] After countless
incremental changes,

00:03:59.473 --> 00:04:04.378
these tiny machines became
larger and more complex.

00:04:04.878 --> 00:04:07.381
- [Speaker] Some of these
machines formed colonies,

00:04:07.414 --> 00:04:10.384
perhaps by failing
to completely split.

00:04:10.450 --> 00:04:14.188
- [Speaker] As the eons passed,
more incremental changes

00:04:14.221 --> 00:04:16.957
resulted in more
complex colonies,

00:04:16.990 --> 00:04:20.661
including types of
colonies that moved about.

00:04:21.795 --> 00:04:25.332
Today, the replicator
molecules are DNA,

00:04:26.266 --> 00:04:28.101
the machines are cells,

00:04:29.870 --> 00:04:33.507
and the colonies are you and me,

00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:37.211
and every other multicellular
organism on Earth.

00:04:38.545 --> 00:04:40.848
And every single one
of us is connected,

00:04:40.881 --> 00:04:44.384
in an unbroken chain
of replication and
incremental changes,

00:04:44.418 --> 00:04:46.687
to those earliest molecules.

00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.224
That means for every
animal that exists today,

00:04:50.257 --> 00:04:52.693
if you look back
in time far enough,

00:04:52.726 --> 00:04:55.229
there was once a
time when they and we

00:04:55.262 --> 00:04:56.630
were the same species.

00:04:57.698 --> 00:05:03.103
We are all, every animal on
earth, literally cousins.

00:05:06.974 --> 00:05:09.443
- [Mark] Since I'm a member of
the species of Homo sapiens,

00:05:09.476 --> 00:05:11.578
I decided to start
off with a species

00:05:11.612 --> 00:05:14.114
that may be our
closest ever relatives,

00:05:14.147 --> 00:05:18.118
an animal so similar to us,
that scientists still debate

00:05:18.151 --> 00:05:21.788
whether to consider us
separate species or subspecies,

00:05:21.822 --> 00:05:25.759
an animal that only went
extinct 40,000 or so years ago.

00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:28.962
So I went to Gibraltar

00:05:28.996 --> 00:05:32.232
where some of the last
Neanderthals lived,

00:05:32.299 --> 00:05:35.068
and where some
impossibly massive caves

00:05:35.102 --> 00:05:37.571
are being excavated by
a team of scientists.

00:05:37.638 --> 00:05:41.308
Oh, and this is me pretending
to know where I'm going.

00:05:41.375 --> 00:05:45.078
And this is the lead
scientist, Dr. Clive Finlayson

00:05:45.112 --> 00:05:47.147
leading me into
one of the caves.

00:05:47.181 --> 00:05:49.383
- So here we are. It's
a very sensitive site.

00:05:49.416 --> 00:05:51.718
So there's a strict limit
of the number of people

00:05:51.752 --> 00:05:52.986
that can go in.

00:05:53.020 --> 00:05:55.756
This cave, we actually
don't let any visitors,

00:05:55.789 --> 00:05:56.924
but we're gonna
make an exception.

00:05:56.990 --> 00:05:59.826
- Can I step on this
also? Okay, not that.

00:05:59.893 --> 00:06:02.329
We actually existed
at the same time,

00:06:02.362 --> 00:06:03.697
we were contemporaries.

00:06:03.764 --> 00:06:05.766
- Yeah. And didn't know
that each other existed.

00:06:05.832 --> 00:06:07.634
They had lots of skills

00:06:07.668 --> 00:06:10.637
that we have previously
only attributed to humans.

00:06:10.704 --> 00:06:12.940
They knew how to start a
fire, how to control it.

00:06:12.973 --> 00:06:14.274
They knew- they cooked food.

00:06:14.341 --> 00:06:16.677
We found there was the
remains of a fire they'd made.

00:06:16.743 --> 00:06:19.780
They were catching
animals with furs.

00:06:19.813 --> 00:06:21.949
So they were probably
using those to keep warm.

00:06:22.015 --> 00:06:24.184
Catching golden eagles for
their feathers and the talons,

00:06:24.218 --> 00:06:26.119
probably using them
for ornamentation.

00:06:26.186 --> 00:06:27.454
That sophisticated behavior

00:06:27.487 --> 00:06:29.790
to allow you to wear
all these things,

00:06:29.823 --> 00:06:31.358
humans may have learned
it from Neanderthals.

00:06:31.391 --> 00:06:34.127
- [Mark] I mean, it really
turns things upside down

00:06:34.161 --> 00:06:35.896
in terms of our
perceptions of ourselves.

00:06:35.963 --> 00:06:37.097
- And we've been
brought up to think

00:06:37.130 --> 00:06:38.866
that we are very special.

00:06:38.899 --> 00:06:41.535
We are undoubtedly
special, or unique.

00:06:41.602 --> 00:06:44.938
But as a colleague
anthropologist once said,

00:06:44.972 --> 00:06:47.007
we're are just another
unique species.

00:06:50.277 --> 00:06:53.480
- [Mark] As surprising as all
that was, they're extinct.

00:06:53.514 --> 00:06:57.150
So I thought, what would happen
if I looked more carefully

00:06:57.184 --> 00:06:59.753
at our closest living relatives?

00:06:59.820 --> 00:07:03.190
Before anything else,
I obviously had to
meet the one human

00:07:03.223 --> 00:07:05.492
who introduced the
rest of our species

00:07:05.526 --> 00:07:07.694
to the world of chimpanzees

00:07:07.728 --> 00:07:10.364
through her groundbreaking
fieldwork in Tanzania.

00:07:10.397 --> 00:07:11.532
She still lives there,

00:07:11.565 --> 00:07:14.301
though no longer
with the chimpanzees.

00:07:14.334 --> 00:07:17.004
- I didn't go out to
look for similarities

00:07:17.037 --> 00:07:18.472
between chimps and humans.

00:07:18.505 --> 00:07:20.174
They were just obvious.

00:07:20.207 --> 00:07:22.743
And the more I learned about
them, the more I realized,

00:07:22.776 --> 00:07:25.245
my goodness, there
isn't a sharp line.

00:07:25.312 --> 00:07:27.581
- [Mark] Then I went to her
former student, who's now

00:07:27.614 --> 00:07:30.684
at the Department of Human
Evolutionary Biology at Harvard.

00:07:30.717 --> 00:07:33.854
- You realize that you are
in the presence of a species

00:07:33.921 --> 00:07:38.091
somewhere sort of
halfway between humans
and other species.

00:07:38.525 --> 00:07:40.594
- [Mark] So with those
interviews as my guidance,

00:07:40.627 --> 00:07:44.431
I decided to meet
chimpanzees where they live,

00:07:44.464 --> 00:07:47.067
which involved
traveling to Uganda

00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:49.770
and then getting in a canoe.

00:07:49.803 --> 00:07:51.205
- You can get in.

00:07:51.238 --> 00:07:53.473
- Or at least what they
told me was a canoe.

00:07:55.108 --> 00:07:56.877
That's where all the
chimpanzees live.

00:07:56.910 --> 00:07:58.178
- Exactly.

00:07:58.212 --> 00:08:00.747
From the mainland, it's
about 23 kilometers.

00:08:00.781 --> 00:08:01.548
- Oh wow.

00:08:01.582 --> 00:08:02.783
- Yes.

00:08:02.816 --> 00:08:05.886
- We just went 23
kilometers in a canoe.

00:08:05.919 --> 00:08:06.753
- Exactly.

00:08:08.789 --> 00:08:10.624
We are approaching
the camping area.

00:08:10.691 --> 00:08:12.726
- [Mark] But we didn't
stop at the camping area.

00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:15.963
We just got into a smaller canoe

00:08:15.996 --> 00:08:18.098
along with someone who
knows the chimpanzees

00:08:18.131 --> 00:08:20.801
better than anyone,
Innocent Ampeire.

00:08:20.868 --> 00:08:25.005
- As we get close to the
forest, I'll make the call.

00:08:27.341 --> 00:08:34.448
(Innocent vocalizes)

00:08:38.118 --> 00:08:39.453
It's also possible that they are

00:08:39.486 --> 00:08:41.622
on the southern
side of the island.

00:08:41.655 --> 00:08:43.490
- No, he's coming out.

00:08:47.594 --> 00:08:49.763
The more I watched and filmed,

00:08:49.796 --> 00:08:52.966
the more similar our
two species seemed.

00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.335
- [Richard] When we see
chimps behaving like us,

00:08:55.402 --> 00:08:58.272
the obvious interpretation is
that our ancestors did that

00:08:58.338 --> 00:09:00.040
7 or 8 million years ago.

00:09:00.107 --> 00:09:01.942
- [Mark] Back when we
were the same species.

00:09:01.975 --> 00:09:04.511
- Back when there was no
difference between us.

00:09:04.578 --> 00:09:07.047
- So even if you know
nothing about chimpanzees,

00:09:07.114 --> 00:09:09.683
if you see individuals
embracing, kissing,

00:09:09.716 --> 00:09:12.119
they do it in the
same context as we do.

00:09:12.186 --> 00:09:13.453
- [Mark] But here's the moment

00:09:13.487 --> 00:09:14.988
when it really hit me.

00:09:15.022 --> 00:09:19.326
- This is a rock that has been
played with by a chimpanzee.

00:09:19.359 --> 00:09:22.329
And the way it does
so very much suggests

00:09:22.362 --> 00:09:24.965
that it's treating it as a doll.

00:09:25.032 --> 00:09:27.901
I brought rocks back, but
mostly they do it with sticks.

00:09:27.968 --> 00:09:29.369
It's the young ones,
it's the juveniles,

00:09:29.403 --> 00:09:32.472
and particularly the juvenile
females doing with it,

00:09:32.506 --> 00:09:35.642
the kind of thing that
they do with babies.

00:09:35.676 --> 00:09:38.378
It seems to indicate
that they are imagining

00:09:38.412 --> 00:09:40.914
that this is an
infant chimpanzee.

00:09:40.981 --> 00:09:44.518
Sometimes what they do is to
take them up into the canopy,

00:09:44.551 --> 00:09:46.653
into the trees, and
then make a nest

00:09:46.687 --> 00:09:50.157
and lie down with the
toy on top of them.

00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:52.292
Much like a mother
would lie down

00:09:52.326 --> 00:09:54.294
with the baby on top of them.

00:09:54.328 --> 00:09:57.164
- [Mark] Okay, using
objects as imaginary toys

00:09:57.197 --> 00:09:58.265
is already something.

00:09:58.332 --> 00:10:01.201
But I met the scientist
who first discovered

00:10:01.235 --> 00:10:03.170
that a group of chimpanzees

00:10:03.203 --> 00:10:06.507
has invented something
nobody expected.

00:10:06.573 --> 00:10:09.743
Chimpanzees are
hunting with spears?

00:10:09.776 --> 00:10:11.945
- Yes. Chimpanzees are
hunting with spears.

00:10:12.012 --> 00:10:13.747
We were racking our
brains trying to think of

00:10:13.780 --> 00:10:14.515
what they were doing.

00:10:14.715 --> 00:10:16.049
We just hadn't, there
was no precedent.

00:10:16.116 --> 00:10:19.753
They break off a live tree
branch and they sharpen it.

00:10:21.588 --> 00:10:24.191
That was something we really
thought only humans did.

00:10:24.224 --> 00:10:26.360
- [Mark] Finally, I met
the distinguished scientist

00:10:26.393 --> 00:10:27.861
who discovered that chimpanzees

00:10:27.895 --> 00:10:30.397
can recognize
themselves in mirrors.

00:10:30.464 --> 00:10:33.867
But I was there to ask about
a rumor among primatologists

00:10:33.901 --> 00:10:36.870
that a chimpanzee was once
artificially inseminated

00:10:36.904 --> 00:10:38.172
with human sperm

00:10:38.205 --> 00:10:42.142
and gave birth to a
human-chimpanzee hybrid.

00:10:42.209 --> 00:10:43.810
- Would you put it in a cage?

00:10:43.877 --> 00:10:46.547
Would it be put in
a headstart program?

00:10:46.580 --> 00:10:47.948
Would it get a social
security number?

00:10:47.981 --> 00:10:53.353
I mean... This dramatic
line in the sand

00:10:53.387 --> 00:10:56.557
that we draw between
humans and other animals,

00:10:56.590 --> 00:10:57.691
I mean, it would force you

00:10:57.724 --> 00:11:02.462
to have to rethink
human existence.

00:11:02.529 --> 00:11:06.133
- [Mark] And speaking of
rethinking human existence,

00:11:06.166 --> 00:11:08.635
I found out there's
another living species

00:11:08.669 --> 00:11:11.738
just as closely related
to us as chimpanzees are,

00:11:11.772 --> 00:11:13.440
but so little known,

00:11:13.473 --> 00:11:17.110
they've been referred
to as the forgotten ape.

00:11:17.177 --> 00:11:21.748
And they resemble us so much
more, it's almost eerie.

00:11:21.782 --> 00:11:23.550
I visited one of
the first people

00:11:23.584 --> 00:11:27.754
to successfully photograph
bonobos where they live.

00:11:27.821 --> 00:11:32.292
- When I'm out there in the
forest and I observe bonobos,

00:11:32.326 --> 00:11:33.460
I see ourselves.

00:11:33.527 --> 00:11:36.597
We are only just
beginning to understand

00:11:36.630 --> 00:11:38.665
what bonobos are really about.

00:11:38.732 --> 00:11:43.136
They live only in this remote
part of the Congo Basin,

00:11:43.170 --> 00:11:44.972
which is so difficult to get to.

00:11:45.038 --> 00:11:49.443
You have to charter planes and
then transfer to motorbikes,

00:11:49.476 --> 00:11:53.280
or you have to travel for
days and days upriver.

00:11:53.347 --> 00:11:55.682
- So, off to the Congo I went.

00:11:55.749 --> 00:11:59.086
Unfortunately, there was
so much recent civil unrest

00:11:59.119 --> 00:12:01.622
that the US Embassy
had been evacuated

00:12:01.655 --> 00:12:03.657
just months before I arrived.

00:12:03.724 --> 00:12:06.360
But fortunately, we
were escorted by someone

00:12:06.393 --> 00:12:08.662
with apparent connections
in the military.

00:12:08.729 --> 00:12:11.365
And best of all, there's
now protected sanctuary land

00:12:11.398 --> 00:12:14.234
for bonobos not far
from the capital city.

00:12:14.301 --> 00:12:16.970
The bonobos are
somewhere that way, huh?

00:12:17.037 --> 00:12:19.773
I met with Congolese
biologist Suzy Kwetuenda

00:12:19.806 --> 00:12:22.643
and communicated pretty
well despite the fact

00:12:22.676 --> 00:12:26.680
that the only language I
speak is her third language.

00:12:26.747 --> 00:12:29.216
Does it seem like I've been
to the Congo many times?

00:12:32.352 --> 00:12:34.321
- It seems like you
already will be here.

00:12:34.354 --> 00:12:38.559
So you are not like
a guest. You are-

00:12:38.592 --> 00:12:40.627
- I think you're just
trying to be nice.

00:12:40.661 --> 00:12:41.862
- No, no.
- That's not true.

00:12:41.895 --> 00:12:43.230
- No. Yeah.

00:12:43.263 --> 00:12:47.601
The area for bonobos is
deeply in a swampy forest.

00:12:47.668 --> 00:12:49.369
- And we got in another boat.

00:12:49.436 --> 00:12:52.840
The alpha female is
coming into the water.

00:12:52.873 --> 00:12:53.807
- [Suzy] Yes.

00:12:53.841 --> 00:12:54.741
- And she's looking at us.

00:12:54.775 --> 00:12:56.076
- And she's walking on two feet.

00:12:56.143 --> 00:12:58.378
You've seen on the
sticks. Different use now.

00:12:58.412 --> 00:12:59.680
- Let's see.
- It was a support,

00:12:59.713 --> 00:13:01.181
but now she take it.

00:13:01.215 --> 00:13:03.317
- So she's using it to
measure how deep the water is.

00:13:03.350 --> 00:13:04.518
- Yes. To measure.

00:13:04.551 --> 00:13:06.353
- To see if she can
come out further.

00:13:06.386 --> 00:13:07.754
- Yeah.

00:13:07.788 --> 00:13:09.590
- I wouldn't even necessarily
think of doing that.

00:13:09.656 --> 00:13:11.525
That's a good idea.
- Yes.

00:13:11.592 --> 00:13:13.026
- [Mark] Their gestures,
their expressions,

00:13:13.060 --> 00:13:15.596
and literally their physical
appearance seems more similar-

00:13:15.629 --> 00:13:16.763
- [Suzy] Similar to us.

00:13:16.830 --> 00:13:18.365
- [Mark] Than even
a chimpanzee's.

00:13:18.398 --> 00:13:19.233
- [Suzy] Sure.

00:13:20.534 --> 00:13:21.935
- [Mark] And that's
when I realized,

00:13:21.969 --> 00:13:25.305
chimpanzees and bonobos
are just the beginning.

00:13:25.372 --> 00:13:28.275
- It was always, you should
not be anthropomorphic.

00:13:28.308 --> 00:13:31.879
And I invented the
term anthropodenial.

00:13:31.945 --> 00:13:34.381
We humans, we think
that our experiences

00:13:34.414 --> 00:13:36.617
must be different than
those of other animals.

00:13:36.683 --> 00:13:39.186
Let's say you fall in love,
you're gonna be very impressed

00:13:39.219 --> 00:13:42.422
by the flood of thoughts
and feelings that you have.

00:13:42.489 --> 00:13:45.058
And you can barely
imagine that a chimp

00:13:45.092 --> 00:13:47.461
or any other animal would
have those feelings.

00:13:47.528 --> 00:13:49.763
But that's just
lack of imagination.

00:13:49.830 --> 00:13:52.699
- [Mark] So I stopped by
an esteemed neuroscientist

00:13:52.733 --> 00:13:56.637
who studies romantic
love in other species.

00:13:56.703 --> 00:13:57.704
- There's no reason to believe

00:13:57.738 --> 00:13:59.540
that the biological mechanisms

00:13:59.573 --> 00:14:02.442
that are driving human
experiences, like love

00:14:02.476 --> 00:14:05.445
and romantic relationships
are any different.

00:14:05.512 --> 00:14:08.749
So I don't think that our
experience, human experience

00:14:08.782 --> 00:14:11.885
is more intense than
an animal experience

00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.321
when it comes to something,
for example, like love.

00:14:14.388 --> 00:14:16.623
- [Mark] Okay, so all
these lines of evidence

00:14:16.657 --> 00:14:18.125
point in the same direction:

00:14:18.158 --> 00:14:21.261
towards shared sentience
and emotions across species.

00:14:21.295 --> 00:14:24.765
The same evolutionary origins,
the same brain mechanisms

00:14:24.798 --> 00:14:26.934
and neurochemicals,
the same behavior

00:14:26.967 --> 00:14:28.635
under the same circumstances.

00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:31.738
So I thought, what would
happen if I traveled

00:14:31.772 --> 00:14:34.308
even further along
the evolutionary tree

00:14:34.341 --> 00:14:35.976
to more distant cousins.

00:14:36.009 --> 00:14:38.178
For that, I went back to Africa,

00:14:38.212 --> 00:14:41.148
but this time to the
savannas of Kenya

00:14:41.215 --> 00:14:43.083
to meet with a
group of researchers

00:14:43.116 --> 00:14:45.285
that has been studying
the elephants there

00:14:45.319 --> 00:14:47.187
for over 50 years.

00:14:47.254 --> 00:14:48.488
- It's good car for off-roading.

00:14:48.522 --> 00:14:50.190
And it's not easy to get stuck.

00:14:51.658 --> 00:14:54.962
We're the only ones who are
allowed to drive off the road,

00:14:54.995 --> 00:14:56.630
follow the elephants.

00:14:56.663 --> 00:14:58.599
- [Mark] Like actually
into the savanna.

00:14:58.632 --> 00:15:00.033
- [Katito] Into the savanna.

00:15:00.067 --> 00:15:02.636
- Are we driving through a
herd of zebras right now?

00:15:02.669 --> 00:15:03.871
- [Katito] Yes, we are.

00:15:03.904 --> 00:15:05.138
- And these are
wildebeests going by here?

00:15:05.172 --> 00:15:06.340
- [Katito] Yeah,
these wildebeests.

00:15:06.406 --> 00:15:08.141
- [Mark] By the way,
is that a hippopotamus?

00:15:08.175 --> 00:15:08.842
- [Katito] Yes.

00:15:08.909 --> 00:15:09.977
- [Mark] Are those ostriches?

00:15:10.010 --> 00:15:10.644
- [Katito] Yes.

00:15:11.278 --> 00:15:13.347
- It looks like
there're elephants
approaching our vehicle.

00:15:13.380 --> 00:15:17.384
And suddenly there they
were, a family of elephants

00:15:17.417 --> 00:15:20.087
crossing the savanna
right in front of us.

00:15:20.153 --> 00:15:20.954
- This is the matriarch.

00:15:20.988 --> 00:15:21.855
- [Mark] This is the matriarch?

00:15:21.889 --> 00:15:23.390
- [Katito] This their matriarch.

00:15:23.423 --> 00:15:24.992
- [Mark] So she's the leader
and she makes the decisions?

00:15:25.025 --> 00:15:26.860
- [Katito] She's the one who
make the decision where to go,

00:15:26.894 --> 00:15:29.863
what to do, because she
has a lot of experience.

00:15:29.930 --> 00:15:32.766
Now we understand elephant
they live in family.

00:15:32.833 --> 00:15:34.902
- [Mark] So this is why these
children are staying with her,

00:15:34.935 --> 00:15:36.036
those children are
staying with her,

00:15:36.069 --> 00:15:37.504
and they they know each other-

00:15:37.538 --> 00:15:39.473
- They know each, yeah.
- well.

00:15:39.506 --> 00:15:41.808
But the most important unit-

00:15:41.842 --> 00:15:43.410
- That is her immediate family.

00:15:43.477 --> 00:15:45.412
A sister, she's
very close to you.

00:15:45.479 --> 00:15:49.049
So they care about the sister
more than extended cousin.

00:15:49.116 --> 00:15:51.185
And a cousin, yes,
they're still family.

00:15:51.218 --> 00:15:52.452
They help each other.

00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:53.921
When a calf gets stuck,

00:15:53.954 --> 00:15:57.457
you see the family
trying to help the calf.

00:15:57.524 --> 00:15:59.193
- [Mark] How could this be?

00:15:59.226 --> 00:16:02.896
How could animals who appear
so different from humans

00:16:02.930 --> 00:16:06.733
nonetheless have such
recognizable lives?

00:16:06.800 --> 00:16:08.735
So I asked myself, is this true

00:16:08.769 --> 00:16:12.539
for even more distant relatives,
whose last shared ancestors

00:16:12.573 --> 00:16:15.742
with humans lived hundreds
of millions of years ago?

00:16:16.009 --> 00:16:19.012
- Crows and ravens, because
of the neurotransmitters

00:16:19.046 --> 00:16:21.248
in their brain and the
structures in their brain,

00:16:21.281 --> 00:16:23.116
there's no reason to
suspect, when they play,

00:16:23.150 --> 00:16:24.384
they aren't having fun.

00:16:24.451 --> 00:16:25.853
In the wintertime
when there's snow,

00:16:25.886 --> 00:16:27.754
they often slide down slopes.

00:16:27.821 --> 00:16:29.556
One of the greatest
videos of this,

00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:33.627
a bird had grabbed a saucer
like the top of a container,

00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:37.397
walked up to the top of
the roof, slid down on it,

00:16:37.431 --> 00:16:40.267
kind of rode it like a surfboard

00:16:40.300 --> 00:16:43.103
or a saucer that you
slide in the snow with.

00:16:43.136 --> 00:16:44.571
The best thing is that
he then picks it up,

00:16:44.605 --> 00:16:46.707
walks back up and does
it again and again.

00:16:46.773 --> 00:16:48.742
- [Mark Voiceover] But then
he said something different

00:16:48.775 --> 00:16:51.078
from what any of the
other scientists had.

00:16:51.111 --> 00:16:52.579
- We discovered that
they were paying

00:16:52.613 --> 00:16:54.114
very close attention to us.

00:16:54.181 --> 00:16:55.883
- [Mark Voiceover] And
how do we know that?

00:16:55.916 --> 00:17:00.020
Well, I participated in
an ongoing experiment.

00:17:00.087 --> 00:17:01.588
- That's the dangerous face.

00:17:01.655 --> 00:17:03.557
My student and I were each
wearing a mask like that

00:17:03.590 --> 00:17:06.593
when we caught seven
birds 15 years ago.

00:17:06.627 --> 00:17:08.962
We measure them, weigh
them, let 'em go.

00:17:09.029 --> 00:17:10.731
From that point on 15 years ago,

00:17:10.764 --> 00:17:13.333
we would just walk around
campus and see the response.

00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:15.602
So the birds that are
responding to this mask

00:17:15.636 --> 00:17:17.437
could be brand new,
have never seen it,

00:17:17.471 --> 00:17:19.406
and are learning by
hearing the alarm

00:17:19.439 --> 00:17:20.807
given by the other birds.

00:17:20.841 --> 00:17:24.278
They could have seen us
catch a bird 15 years ago.

00:17:24.344 --> 00:17:25.512
You can wear it.
- Okay.

00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:28.482
(whimsical music)

00:17:32.886 --> 00:17:35.656
(crows cawing)

00:17:37.558 --> 00:17:39.960
Consistent with the years
of published research,

00:17:39.993 --> 00:17:42.095
they certainly did notice me,

00:17:42.129 --> 00:17:44.498
and draw each other's
attention to me.

00:17:44.565 --> 00:17:47.868
This remarkable attention
to individuals reminded me

00:17:47.901 --> 00:17:51.305
of something Frans de Waal
said about one pair of birds,

00:17:51.338 --> 00:17:53.841
a couple whom he'd
regularly observed.

00:17:53.907 --> 00:17:56.343
- The female at some
point disappeared.

00:17:56.410 --> 00:17:59.613
I don't know what happened
to her, but the male,

00:17:59.646 --> 00:18:00.814
for two weeks,

00:18:00.848 --> 00:18:03.150
he kept calling and
scanning the sky,

00:18:03.183 --> 00:18:05.152
calling and calling
and not eating.

00:18:05.185 --> 00:18:06.920
And then he died.

00:18:06.987 --> 00:18:08.655
- [Mark] And finally,
just when I thought

00:18:08.689 --> 00:18:11.225
I'd seen everything, I
heard about something

00:18:11.258 --> 00:18:13.460
almost impossible
for me to believe.

00:18:13.493 --> 00:18:14.661
- [Constantine] You
just have to be careful

00:18:14.695 --> 00:18:16.496
not to fall into a
prairie dog hole.

00:18:16.530 --> 00:18:18.498
- [Mark] So the
prairie dogs live here.

00:18:18.532 --> 00:18:19.166
- Correct.

00:18:19.499 --> 00:18:21.568
They have extensive
tunnels underground.

00:18:21.635 --> 00:18:25.906
- Am I really understanding
correctly that these animals,

00:18:25.939 --> 00:18:29.142
you have found, are
talking with each other,

00:18:29.176 --> 00:18:32.079
using nouns and adjectives?

00:18:32.112 --> 00:18:33.680
- Correct. They have
a word for human.

00:18:33.714 --> 00:18:35.015
They have a word for hawk.

00:18:35.048 --> 00:18:38.218
They have a word for
coyote, word for dog.

00:18:38.285 --> 00:18:41.555
There are adjectives
such as yellow, green.

00:18:41.588 --> 00:18:45.459
There are verbs such as
moving slowly, moving fast.

00:18:45.526 --> 00:18:47.661
- Sentences are in some
sort of like structured-

00:18:47.694 --> 00:18:48.829
- Yes. Right.

00:18:48.862 --> 00:18:52.633
And these have a
grammatical structure.

00:18:52.699 --> 00:18:54.101
- And they make up new
words if it's a new thing?

00:18:54.134 --> 00:18:55.736
- And they can
make up new words.

00:18:55.802 --> 00:19:00.107
When you go from one colony to
another colony farther away,

00:19:00.140 --> 00:19:02.709
the dialect changes
more and more,

00:19:02.776 --> 00:19:04.611
just like you find
with human dialects.

00:19:04.678 --> 00:19:05.779
- You just have
to sort of narrow

00:19:05.812 --> 00:19:07.948
the definition of
language artificially

00:19:07.981 --> 00:19:10.951
just to exclude this, just
because we want to exclude this.

00:19:10.984 --> 00:19:14.221
- Right, they want to keep
the distance of humans

00:19:14.254 --> 00:19:16.356
and other animals.

00:19:16.390 --> 00:19:18.559
And there are lots of
ethical implications.

00:19:18.625 --> 00:19:21.395
Colonies have been bulldozed
to make playing fields.

00:19:21.428 --> 00:19:23.564
They've been bulldozed
to make parking lots.

00:19:23.830 --> 00:19:25.032
Prairie dogs were
in their burrows

00:19:25.065 --> 00:19:27.167
and they just
bulldozed them over.

00:19:27.234 --> 00:19:28.635
No thought to the social system,

00:19:28.669 --> 00:19:30.704
no thought to their language,

00:19:30.737 --> 00:19:33.574
no thought to whether they
look at a sunflower field

00:19:33.607 --> 00:19:35.642
and say, "how
beautiful this is."

00:19:35.709 --> 00:19:37.077
We give no thought to that.

00:19:37.110 --> 00:19:40.948
- Had I been asking the
wrong question all this time?

00:19:40.981 --> 00:19:44.084
Maybe it was never about
a lack of knowledge.

00:19:44.117 --> 00:19:48.088
Could our entire species
be in some kind of denial

00:19:48.121 --> 00:19:51.325
because of things
that we're doing?

00:19:51.391 --> 00:19:53.927
Should I be looking at, say,

00:19:53.961 --> 00:19:55.896
how we treat these
various animals

00:19:55.929 --> 00:19:59.433
that I've just looked into
all of this research about?

00:19:59.466 --> 00:20:02.469
- Absolutely. You should
be looking at that.

00:20:02.503 --> 00:20:07.107
- And what I find might not
make humans look that good.

00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:08.709
- Probably.

00:20:10.310 --> 00:20:12.980
- [Mark] I decided to
find out what we do

00:20:13.013 --> 00:20:15.782
to the very species
I'd just looked at,

00:20:15.849 --> 00:20:19.653
starting back what the most
majestic and so-called exotic.

00:20:19.686 --> 00:20:21.255
It seemed like the biggest way

00:20:21.288 --> 00:20:23.624
Homo sapiens interact
with elephants

00:20:23.657 --> 00:20:25.792
takes place in Thailand.

00:20:25.826 --> 00:20:28.462
I met with an attorney
who supports advocacy work

00:20:28.495 --> 00:20:30.130
on behalf of
elephants in Thailand.

00:20:30.163 --> 00:20:34.101
- If you see things that
they don't want you to see

00:20:34.134 --> 00:20:35.502
and they're fearful

00:20:35.536 --> 00:20:37.304
that you're going to be
telling the world about it,

00:20:37.337 --> 00:20:40.507
particularly if you had a
camera and you're there,

00:20:40.541 --> 00:20:42.142
it could be pretty dangerous.

00:20:42.176 --> 00:20:45.846
They're gonna want to get rid
of you in one way or another.

00:20:45.879 --> 00:20:48.048
I don't know what
their choices might be

00:20:48.081 --> 00:20:51.218
at any given moment, but
none of 'em are good for you.

00:20:51.285 --> 00:20:53.720
- [Mark] So I went to Thailand

00:20:54.688 --> 00:20:56.356
where I met with Lek Chailert,

00:20:56.423 --> 00:20:59.126
who has dedicated her life to
speaking out about elephants

00:20:59.159 --> 00:21:01.562
used in the entertainment
industry in her country.

00:21:01.628 --> 00:21:03.931
- Elephant industry
is a big industry.

00:21:03.997 --> 00:21:07.167
Anyone who touches the
pocket get a lot of attack.

00:21:07.201 --> 00:21:10.003
They asked the government
to kick me out the country.

00:21:10.070 --> 00:21:13.707
I have a gun pointed at my
head. I have many worse...

00:21:13.774 --> 00:21:15.676
I don't even want to look back.

00:21:15.742 --> 00:21:18.478
In our country, we have
thousands of captive elephants

00:21:18.512 --> 00:21:20.547
used for tourist industry.

00:21:20.614 --> 00:21:22.082
They have small building,

00:21:22.149 --> 00:21:24.718
they chain them at
the concrete floor.

00:21:24.785 --> 00:21:29.089
Mentally is a really
big issue for them.

00:21:29.156 --> 00:21:31.925
- [Mark] She then described
how elephants, like humans,

00:21:31.959 --> 00:21:34.361
behave in severe confinement.

00:21:34.428 --> 00:21:38.031
- The shake like that, hours
and hours, their mind is gone.

00:21:38.098 --> 00:21:41.001
- [Mark] She found a
way to take me inside

00:21:41.034 --> 00:21:43.837
one of those places, which
we had to film quickly

00:21:43.871 --> 00:21:46.173
before the owners
changed their minds.

00:21:46.206 --> 00:21:48.542
- [Lek] And this is
how they keep them.

00:21:56.116 --> 00:21:58.919
(chains clanking)

00:22:00.254 --> 00:22:01.889
- [Mark] So they're
chained every day.

00:22:01.922 --> 00:22:02.756
- [Lek] Yes.

00:22:02.823 --> 00:22:03.857
- [Mark] And the
rest of the time

00:22:03.891 --> 00:22:05.392
they're being made to do work.

00:22:05.425 --> 00:22:06.927
- [Lek] Yes. So many places,

00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.463
they chain elephants
somewhere in the hot sun

00:22:09.496 --> 00:22:13.901
or in the mud and stand
on their own poo and pee.

00:22:13.967 --> 00:22:16.637
- So this is better
than most of them?

00:22:16.670 --> 00:22:17.838
- Yes. Much better.

00:22:20.374 --> 00:22:22.409
Below here is a baby nursery.

00:22:22.476 --> 00:22:24.211
- [Mark] This is a
mother and a baby?

00:22:24.244 --> 00:22:25.579
- [Lek] Mother- yes.

00:22:25.612 --> 00:22:28.448
(dark music)

00:22:32.953 --> 00:22:34.454
- [Mark] Back in
the United States-

00:22:34.488 --> 00:22:38.158
- We might kill 40-50 here
today. We might kill 20.

00:22:38.192 --> 00:22:40.761
It depends on how many
crows are in the area.

00:22:40.827 --> 00:22:42.930
This is like cheap sporting
clay shooting here.

00:22:42.963 --> 00:22:43.964
The targets are free.

00:22:43.997 --> 00:22:48.001
(crows cawing)
(gun shoots)

00:22:48.035 --> 00:22:49.436
Did you hear him
when I shot him?

00:22:49.469 --> 00:22:51.572
He kind of cried.
(vocalizing) He was wounded.

00:22:51.605 --> 00:22:52.840
- [Mark] Oh, I
didn't hear. Okay.

00:22:52.906 --> 00:22:54.508
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- And I'll shoot two or three,

00:22:54.541 --> 00:22:56.109
and one of 'em might fly all
the way across that field

00:22:56.143 --> 00:22:57.477
and land in that tree.

00:22:57.544 --> 00:23:00.347
He might be the guy
that'll warn everybody
from coming in here.

00:23:00.414 --> 00:23:02.816
They look like they look
out after each other.

00:23:02.850 --> 00:23:04.351
I can't really explain it.

00:23:04.418 --> 00:23:07.621
- [Mark] And I didn't have to
travel far from where I live

00:23:07.654 --> 00:23:11.491
to find a zoo with a
chimpanzee in a cage.

00:23:11.525 --> 00:23:14.895
So I planted a hidden
timelapse camera there.

00:23:17.664 --> 00:23:19.967
Watching this, I just
kept thinking about

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.371
how these are our species'
closest living cousins.

00:23:24.404 --> 00:23:26.640
An evolutionary
blink of an eye ago,

00:23:26.673 --> 00:23:29.610
they and we were
the same species.

00:23:29.643 --> 00:23:32.646
What happens to individuals
who are treated like this?

00:23:32.713 --> 00:23:36.016
- A lot of times we hear
about PTSD in war veterans.

00:23:36.083 --> 00:23:40.187
Our study found that chimpanzees
used in entertainment,

00:23:40.254 --> 00:23:45.092
in the international primate
trade, had high levels of PTSD.

00:23:45.158 --> 00:23:47.861
- [Mark] While chimpanzees
can't describe PTSD

00:23:47.928 --> 00:23:51.198
in our language, I
found someone who could.

00:23:51.431 --> 00:23:53.033
- I'm a Marine Corps veteran,

00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:55.102
diagnosed with post-traumatic
stress disorder.

00:23:55.169 --> 00:23:57.171
Your mind and body are convinced

00:23:57.204 --> 00:23:58.639
that something's gonna happen.

00:23:58.672 --> 00:24:01.642
That you're going to have
to fight for your life

00:24:01.675 --> 00:24:03.844
or run for your life.

00:24:03.911 --> 00:24:08.415
Every moment has been fear.

00:24:08.448 --> 00:24:10.417
Whether it's supposed
to be a happy moment

00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:11.451
or anything else.

00:24:11.518 --> 00:24:14.521
Not getting a moment of peace.

00:24:14.588 --> 00:24:17.424
This year I attempted suicide.

00:24:21.695 --> 00:24:25.065
I don't wanna be here.

00:24:27.634 --> 00:24:30.037
- [Mark] This led
me to a much deeper,

00:24:30.070 --> 00:24:31.872
more disturbing question.

00:24:31.905 --> 00:24:35.275
If these are only the species
I just happened to look at,

00:24:35.309 --> 00:24:37.411
what else is going on?

00:24:38.779 --> 00:24:40.914
To find out, I
spoke with perhaps

00:24:40.948 --> 00:24:44.585
the most knowledgeable animal
welfare expert alive today.

00:24:44.651 --> 00:24:46.720
- I'm emeritus professor
of animal welfare

00:24:46.753 --> 00:24:47.888
in Cambridge University.

00:24:47.921 --> 00:24:49.389
I've been doing research

00:24:49.423 --> 00:24:53.527
on the behavior and welfare
of animals for 50 years.

00:24:53.594 --> 00:24:59.066
I've written about 360
refereed papers and 12 books.

00:24:59.132 --> 00:25:01.568
At this moment, the biggest
animal welfare problem

00:25:01.602 --> 00:25:03.570
in the world is the chickens,

00:25:03.604 --> 00:25:04.905
which are kept for
meat production.

00:25:04.938 --> 00:25:07.107
- [Mark] Ooh. How
is that possible?

00:25:07.174 --> 00:25:10.644
- In the United States
alone, it's estimated

00:25:10.677 --> 00:25:14.414
that more than 9
billion chickens

00:25:14.448 --> 00:25:16.950
are produced for
slaughter, for meat.

00:25:17.951 --> 00:25:19.319
- [Mark Voiceover]
Uh, if you're feeling

00:25:19.353 --> 00:25:22.623
a little uncomfortable
right now, you're not alone.

00:25:22.656 --> 00:25:25.926
To help me make sense of this,
I visited an animal sanctuary

00:25:25.959 --> 00:25:29.363
with evolutionary anthropologist
Dr. Barbara J. King,

00:25:29.429 --> 00:25:32.766
who recently turned her
attention to farmed animals.

00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.769
- When you change the topic
and you bring in chickens,

00:25:35.802 --> 00:25:39.273
there's a very palpable
sense of tension.

00:25:39.306 --> 00:25:40.807
There's joking.

00:25:40.841 --> 00:25:43.443
- Once you change the species.
- Once I change the species.

00:25:43.477 --> 00:25:47.948
- So, talking about this
is gonna ruin my film.

00:25:47.981 --> 00:25:49.349
- (chuckles) Possibly.

00:25:49.416 --> 00:25:51.785
- [Mark] And I was told
it's not just chickens.

00:25:51.818 --> 00:25:55.455
- Globally, nearly all
animal production now

00:25:55.489 --> 00:25:59.293
is conducted in these
highly intensive,

00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:00.794
so-called factory farming

00:26:00.827 --> 00:26:03.230
or confined animal
feeding operations.

00:26:03.297 --> 00:26:05.632
- [Mark] So I looked into
the numbers, and it's true.

00:26:05.666 --> 00:26:08.836
If I wanted to find out
how Homo sapiens interacts

00:26:08.869 --> 00:26:11.939
with other species, animal
agriculture, cows, pigs,

00:26:11.972 --> 00:26:14.341
and chickens, is where
I'd have to look.

00:26:14.408 --> 00:26:16.143
So I enlisted the
help of perhaps

00:26:16.176 --> 00:26:19.046
the most world renowned
expert on the meat industry.

00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:20.380
Dr. Temple Grandin.

00:26:20.647 --> 00:26:22.349
- Been in this
industry for 50 years.

00:26:22.416 --> 00:26:24.051
Every major meat company,
I've worked with them.

00:26:24.084 --> 00:26:28.155
- [Mark] And with that, a
strange new journey began.

00:26:28.188 --> 00:26:30.824
- [Person] They can feel
pain, they can feel fear.

00:26:30.858 --> 00:26:32.826
They can have positive feelings.

00:26:32.893 --> 00:26:36.063
- [Mark] I clearly had to
meet some chickens first.

00:26:36.096 --> 00:26:37.631
So I met up with a friend

00:26:37.664 --> 00:26:39.800
who'd recently adopted
some pet chickens.

00:26:39.833 --> 00:26:41.168
- Come on, guys.

00:26:41.201 --> 00:26:42.836
The ones that we got last
year were much smaller.

00:26:42.903 --> 00:26:45.706
So the older chickens would
kind of pick on them a little

00:26:45.739 --> 00:26:47.508
and not welcome them
into their group.

00:26:47.541 --> 00:26:50.878
They have their
own personalities.

00:26:50.911 --> 00:26:53.680
They have their own
interpersonal relations

00:26:53.714 --> 00:26:55.716
and conflicts just like humans.

00:26:55.782 --> 00:26:59.987
The mother hen is very,
very protective of her baby.

00:27:00.020 --> 00:27:02.155
The two walk around
as a pair now.

00:27:02.456 --> 00:27:05.025
- [Mark] So it was time to
begin the investigations,

00:27:05.058 --> 00:27:08.729
which turned out to be
more than I bargained for.

00:27:08.762 --> 00:27:10.697
- You have your work
cut out for you.

00:27:10.764 --> 00:27:14.701
Animal agribusiness has engaged
in aggressive, expensive,

00:27:14.735 --> 00:27:17.204
and prolonged efforts
to prevent people

00:27:17.237 --> 00:27:20.007
from doing exactly what it
is that you're trying to do.

00:27:20.040 --> 00:27:23.277
Basically just seeing what
happens behind closed doors.

00:27:23.343 --> 00:27:25.512
They've threatened to
punish whistleblowers.

00:27:25.546 --> 00:27:27.447
They passed legislation
to make sure

00:27:27.481 --> 00:27:30.751
that investigative journalists
cannot record what happens.

00:27:30.817 --> 00:27:33.720
Those recordings, and
if you share them,

00:27:33.754 --> 00:27:35.656
could mean that
you're thrown in jail.

00:27:36.890 --> 00:27:38.959
- I decided to start
by just showing up,

00:27:38.992 --> 00:27:43.463
not at prepared show farms, but
randomly selected facilities

00:27:43.497 --> 00:27:46.800
on random days,
with a hidden camera.

00:27:46.834 --> 00:27:49.536
Hello? Can we come over there?

00:27:49.570 --> 00:27:51.138
Oh, thank you.

00:27:51.171 --> 00:27:53.574
Since obviously I didn't
tell them I was filming,

00:27:53.607 --> 00:27:56.310
I decided to blur
everyone's faces.

00:27:56.343 --> 00:27:57.444
Hi. How are you doing?

00:27:57.511 --> 00:27:58.946
How many birds are in these?

00:28:00.914 --> 00:28:01.915
- 20,000?

00:28:01.949 --> 00:28:03.450
- Oh, what in each building?

00:28:03.483 --> 00:28:05.586
- Yeah.
- Oh wow.

00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:07.588
Is it okay, can I
take a quick look?

00:28:07.621 --> 00:28:08.455
Can I see them?

00:28:10.123 --> 00:28:12.125
Not go in, but just, like, look.

00:28:12.159 --> 00:28:16.396
- Uh, I don't know, because...

00:28:16.430 --> 00:28:17.764
I don't know.

00:28:17.798 --> 00:28:19.600
- The company says that
people are not allowed to-

00:28:19.633 --> 00:28:20.501
- Yes. Yep.

00:28:20.534 --> 00:28:21.602
- Even just to look though?

00:28:21.635 --> 00:28:22.936
- No.

00:28:22.970 --> 00:28:24.471
Yeah, because I don't know...

00:28:26.473 --> 00:28:27.941
- What if you open the door,

00:28:27.975 --> 00:28:30.277
but I'm over here
and I just look.

00:28:30.310 --> 00:28:31.144
No?

00:28:32.679 --> 00:28:35.782
Thankfully I got
better with practice.

00:28:35.816 --> 00:28:37.651
Until... one day...

00:28:38.986 --> 00:28:42.789
Hello! He's never seen
chicken barns in his life.

00:28:42.823 --> 00:28:44.291
Is there someone who would like,

00:28:44.324 --> 00:28:46.193
we be able to get permission of

00:28:46.226 --> 00:28:48.562
to see inside one of the barns?

00:28:49.897 --> 00:28:51.465
- I don't know.

00:28:51.498 --> 00:28:53.867
You tell the man right there.
Maybe he gives the permission.

00:28:53.901 --> 00:28:54.935
Go look the barn.

00:28:54.968 --> 00:28:55.769
- Oh, he's there now?
- Yeah.

00:28:55.836 --> 00:28:57.471
- Maybe we knock on the door.

00:28:57.504 --> 00:28:59.873
(door knocking)

00:29:03.243 --> 00:29:04.511
Hi, how are you doing?

00:29:06.847 --> 00:29:09.516
Sorry to interrupt you.

00:29:10.717 --> 00:29:13.120
We were just driving
by here and...

00:29:13.153 --> 00:29:15.889
Hi, I'm Mark, by the
way. Hey, how are you?

00:29:15.956 --> 00:29:18.725
Somehow I persuaded
them to show me inside.

00:29:19.726 --> 00:29:21.295
- The chickens.

00:29:21.328 --> 00:29:24.164
(chickens clucking)

00:29:30.037 --> 00:29:31.071
- Wow.

00:29:31.138 --> 00:29:35.509
And to show me some
of their records.

00:29:35.542 --> 00:29:36.643
- [Worker] Per house.

00:29:36.677 --> 00:29:39.079
- Oh, per house? Wow.

00:29:39.112 --> 00:29:41.849
- Can I just see
really fast? Oh, sorry.

00:29:41.882 --> 00:29:46.453
Is it okay if I take
a look? Wow, 18,000...

00:29:49.022 --> 00:29:51.525
Here's the total
number of individuals

00:29:51.558 --> 00:29:53.994
who were put into this building

00:29:54.027 --> 00:29:57.130
and here is the
weekly death rate.

00:29:57.197 --> 00:29:59.233
To make sure that
was no exception,

00:29:59.299 --> 00:30:02.603
on another day I wandered up
to another random facility.

00:30:02.636 --> 00:30:04.204
Can we come this way?

00:30:04.238 --> 00:30:07.241
Is it okay if I just walk over
there and look really fast?

00:30:16.383 --> 00:30:17.885
- [Worker] Okay. Come on.

00:30:17.918 --> 00:30:19.052
- [Mark] Take a look.

00:30:20.287 --> 00:30:22.089
How many died in this one?

00:30:22.122 --> 00:30:25.893
- Oh, every day?
10, 20, different.

00:30:25.926 --> 00:30:27.427
- [Mark] Normal?
That's like normal?

00:30:27.461 --> 00:30:28.862
- [Worker] Yeah. Normal.

00:30:28.896 --> 00:30:31.198
- [Mark] What is happening
to these animals?

00:30:31.265 --> 00:30:32.266
- Genetic selection.

00:30:32.332 --> 00:30:34.301
- There's a whole sort of
host of medical problems

00:30:34.334 --> 00:30:38.238
associated with this very,
very rapid weight gain

00:30:38.272 --> 00:30:39.840
that we've selected for.

00:30:39.907 --> 00:30:43.310
- They get pain in their joints.
They can't stand up for long.

00:30:43.377 --> 00:30:46.446
- The heart just can't keep
up with this rate of growth.

00:30:47.681 --> 00:30:49.716
- And on yet another
day I just stood around

00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:52.152
and watched as birds
were loaded onto trucks

00:30:52.219 --> 00:30:53.754
bound for the slaughterhouse.

00:30:53.787 --> 00:30:55.923
Look, look at the truck loading.

00:30:57.758 --> 00:31:00.427
(forklift rumbling)

00:31:12.506 --> 00:31:15.342
As I was about to
leave, I saw this one

00:31:15.409 --> 00:31:18.345
who had escaped and was
hiding against a wall.

00:31:21.815 --> 00:31:24.117
Then, when I happened
to be visiting Brazil

00:31:24.151 --> 00:31:25.786
for an unrelated project,

00:31:25.819 --> 00:31:29.022
I had a very unexpected
conversation about

00:31:29.056 --> 00:31:30.524
what happens next.

00:31:30.557 --> 00:31:33.460
- I work for the Brazilian
government as a work inspector.

00:31:33.493 --> 00:31:36.830
I go to different places to see
how the workers are treated,

00:31:36.897 --> 00:31:40.000
and one of the main places
I go is slaughterhouses.

00:31:40.067 --> 00:31:44.204
When the box comes with the
chickens very packed inside,

00:31:44.238 --> 00:31:46.306
they're flapping their wings
and trying to get away.

00:31:46.340 --> 00:31:47.641
One worker opens

00:31:47.674 --> 00:31:49.510
and then the other ones
have to get the chickens

00:31:49.543 --> 00:31:51.178
with both hands by the legs

00:31:51.211 --> 00:31:53.881
and then put them upside
down on the shackles

00:31:53.947 --> 00:31:55.482
and they're like
flapping their wings

00:31:55.516 --> 00:31:58.051
and making really
disturbing noises.

00:31:58.085 --> 00:31:59.653
They're like really scared.

00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:01.788
I want to say, "Hey,
stop! Hey, stop.

00:32:01.822 --> 00:32:03.891
They're alive. You
can't do that."

00:32:03.924 --> 00:32:07.127
But then, of course,
I'm a professional,

00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:09.997
I can't say that, but
that's the feeling I have.

00:32:10.030 --> 00:32:12.165
Like, "Hey, stop
that. You're crazy.

00:32:12.199 --> 00:32:15.536
The birds are conscious.
They are suffering.

00:32:16.703 --> 00:32:18.138
This is wrong."

00:32:18.205 --> 00:32:20.707
And have to pretend
I don't care.

00:32:21.508 --> 00:32:24.511
But it's a horrible feeling to
see them suffering like that

00:32:24.545 --> 00:32:27.181
and not being able
to do anything.

00:32:27.214 --> 00:32:30.584
Not even, I don't know, trying
to comfort them some way

00:32:30.617 --> 00:32:35.289
or saying, expressing
how sorry I am

00:32:37.024 --> 00:32:39.293
for what they are going through.

00:32:40.327 --> 00:32:43.564
- In egg production, goal is
to get as many eggs, obviously,

00:32:43.597 --> 00:32:46.700
out of the system as they can
in the shortest possible time.

00:32:46.767 --> 00:32:48.702
- Unfortunately, egg facilities

00:32:48.735 --> 00:32:51.371
didn't just invite me in.

00:32:51.405 --> 00:32:53.073
Hello? Is anyone here?

00:32:54.374 --> 00:32:55.576
Hello? Is anyone here?

00:33:07.988 --> 00:33:09.189
Let's go talk to them over here.

00:33:09.223 --> 00:33:11.558
I found someone to speak
with at one of them

00:33:11.592 --> 00:33:13.927
amid the extremely
loud machinery.

00:33:13.994 --> 00:33:15.495
Excuse me? Is anyone there?

00:33:18.932 --> 00:33:19.967
Hello?

00:33:21.168 --> 00:33:24.171
I have a quick question,
if someone has a second.

00:33:24.238 --> 00:33:26.039
How many birds are in there?

00:33:26.073 --> 00:33:28.742
- About 70,000 birds.

00:33:28.809 --> 00:33:30.244
Somebody'll help you up front.

00:33:30.277 --> 00:33:31.478
- Okay.

00:33:31.512 --> 00:33:32.913
Do you think if they
help us up front,

00:33:32.946 --> 00:33:34.081
they'll be able to show us in?

00:33:34.114 --> 00:33:37.150
- No, it's biosecurity,
our birds, yeah.

00:33:37.184 --> 00:33:39.219
Because if somebody gets
one of the chickens sick...

00:33:39.253 --> 00:33:40.554
- Right. Then they
all get sick, yeah.

00:33:40.587 --> 00:33:41.388
All 70,000.

00:33:41.421 --> 00:33:42.656
- Yeah.

00:33:42.689 --> 00:33:44.458
- I came up with what
seemed like a good plan

00:33:44.491 --> 00:33:47.761
to avoid being turned away
on biosecurity grounds.

00:33:47.828 --> 00:33:50.430
Does my biohazard
suit look alright?

00:33:50.464 --> 00:33:51.798
- [Camera Operator] I think so.

00:33:52.132 --> 00:33:54.234
- [Mark Voiceover] Even
then I couldn't get in,

00:33:54.268 --> 00:33:57.571
but I did get a
strange phone call.

00:33:57.604 --> 00:33:58.939
- [Caller] Hi, Mark.

00:33:58.972 --> 00:34:00.340
My name is (censored),
and I'm with the FBI.

00:34:00.374 --> 00:34:01.808
I was hoping you'd be able
to give me a call back

00:34:01.842 --> 00:34:02.943
when you get a chance.

00:34:02.976 --> 00:34:04.178
- [Mark] That's right.

00:34:04.211 --> 00:34:07.147
One of the egg facilities
called the FBI.

00:34:07.214 --> 00:34:08.582
I had to find another way.

00:34:08.615 --> 00:34:10.117
So I found an investigator

00:34:10.150 --> 00:34:12.653
who has guided countless
journalists and others

00:34:12.686 --> 00:34:14.922
into egg facilities
throughout England.

00:34:14.955 --> 00:34:17.658
- [Investigator] There's no
one actively working at night.

00:34:17.691 --> 00:34:19.493
So that's why we're
going at night.

00:34:19.560 --> 00:34:21.428
There's a whole load of
floodlights down here,

00:34:21.461 --> 00:34:23.363
which, like, motion-sensored.

00:34:23.430 --> 00:34:25.966
We'll have two-way radios
so we can keep in touch

00:34:25.999 --> 00:34:29.336
and I can give you any warning
of anyone that's approaching.

00:34:29.403 --> 00:34:33.106
- What happens if we get caught?

00:34:33.140 --> 00:34:34.975
- [Investigator] It's likely
that the police will be called.

00:34:35.042 --> 00:34:38.111
- About how many birds
are in here total?

00:34:38.145 --> 00:34:40.714
- [Investigator] There's at
least half a million there.

00:34:40.747 --> 00:34:42.149
- In this one facility?

00:34:42.182 --> 00:34:43.917
- [Investigator] Yeah,
just in the one farm.

00:34:43.984 --> 00:34:46.787
- [Mark] So this is
basically nothing special?

00:34:46.820 --> 00:34:48.322
- [Investigator] Yeah,
and nothing special

00:34:48.355 --> 00:34:49.690
on conditions either-

00:34:49.723 --> 00:34:52.693
- [Mark] A step up from the
cages we have in the US.

00:34:52.726 --> 00:34:53.894
- [Investigator] Yeah,
there's just been

00:34:53.927 --> 00:34:56.563
some minor welfare improvements.

00:34:56.597 --> 00:34:58.832
So I've got two scopes with me.

00:34:58.866 --> 00:35:02.970
I've got a thermal imager
and an infrared scope.

00:35:03.003 --> 00:35:05.405
If someone's coming in
the dark, I'll see them.

00:35:07.908 --> 00:35:10.544
(uneasy music)

00:35:14.681 --> 00:35:17.818
There's a couple of fences
to get over. Take them slow.

00:35:17.851 --> 00:35:19.920
- [Mark] How do we get
over the barbed wire?

00:35:23.891 --> 00:35:25.993
- [Investigator] So we
have to climb the fence

00:35:26.026 --> 00:35:26.927
on the side here.

00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:27.861
It's got electric on the top.

00:35:27.895 --> 00:35:29.530
Don't put your hand on the left.

00:35:29.563 --> 00:35:32.332
- [Mark] So I put
my hand on these?

00:35:32.366 --> 00:35:34.835
- [Investigator] Let's just
sort out radios before we go in.

00:35:34.868 --> 00:35:38.205
Comms check, comms
check, are you receiving?

00:35:38.238 --> 00:35:41.775
- [Mark] We donned our
biosecurity gear and went in.

00:35:50.284 --> 00:35:55.289
(metal clanking)
(chickens clucking)

00:36:16.109 --> 00:36:18.045
In there, I started
thinking about how,

00:36:18.078 --> 00:36:19.613
while I was going to sleep

00:36:19.646 --> 00:36:22.583
in my comfortable hotel
room bed that night,

00:36:22.616 --> 00:36:25.085
they would stay trapped
here, that night,

00:36:25.118 --> 00:36:26.987
and the next, and the next,

00:36:27.020 --> 00:36:28.188
and the next.

00:36:35.662 --> 00:36:37.231
- The animals have
the biggest issues

00:36:37.264 --> 00:36:38.265
when it comes to housing

00:36:38.332 --> 00:36:40.834
would be the layer
hens and the pigs.

00:36:40.868 --> 00:36:43.170
- They're very active,
very intelligent.

00:36:43.237 --> 00:36:45.239
- [Mark] 12-year-old
Alyson and her dad

00:36:45.272 --> 00:36:47.341
take care of some adopted pigs.

00:36:47.407 --> 00:36:49.309
Are they wagging their tails?

00:36:49.343 --> 00:36:50.777
- Mm-hm.

00:36:50.811 --> 00:36:51.678
- [Mark] Because they're happy,

00:36:51.712 --> 00:36:53.247
like the same way that dogs do?

00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.848
- Yeah, they also
wag their tails a lot

00:36:54.882 --> 00:36:56.250
when you're like petting them.

00:36:56.316 --> 00:36:58.919
It's way easier to teach
a pig than a dog to sit.

00:36:58.986 --> 00:36:59.920
Sit.

00:36:59.953 --> 00:37:02.356
(pig puffing)

00:37:03.357 --> 00:37:04.358
Good boy.

00:37:04.424 --> 00:37:06.460
I think they're just smarter.

00:37:06.527 --> 00:37:08.295
- So we take this animal

00:37:08.328 --> 00:37:11.965
and we put it into a
confinement system,

00:37:11.999 --> 00:37:14.835
which is essentially
a concrete pen.

00:37:15.102 --> 00:37:17.171
They just become very
hostile towards each other,

00:37:17.437 --> 00:37:19.740
get into disputes
over various things.

00:37:19.806 --> 00:37:23.644
What you often see is
pigs with abrasions, cuts

00:37:23.677 --> 00:37:24.945
on their skins.

00:37:24.978 --> 00:37:26.813
And that's from the
teeth of other pigs.

00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:29.149
- [Mark] I was determined
to see this for myself

00:37:29.183 --> 00:37:32.386
and without traveling
halfway across the world.

00:37:32.452 --> 00:37:34.188
So I found a robotics company

00:37:34.221 --> 00:37:37.691
that had competed on
the TV show "BattleBots"

00:37:37.758 --> 00:37:39.860
and asked them to
customize a robot

00:37:39.893 --> 00:37:43.997
that could travel across a
field and look into a window.

00:37:48.669 --> 00:37:50.204
- All right.

00:37:51.205 --> 00:37:53.207
It's definitely a robot.

00:37:56.610 --> 00:37:59.213
So we got the right
general category of thing.

00:38:00.414 --> 00:38:02.516
- That's what I imagined
a robot to look like.

00:38:04.818 --> 00:38:06.220
- Raise the camera up

00:38:06.253 --> 00:38:08.989
and then we'll be able to
look inside of the windows.

00:38:09.056 --> 00:38:12.459
And then we've got a camera
that can pan, tilt, and zoom.

00:38:12.526 --> 00:38:14.528
We'll drop it off and
then we'll drive away

00:38:14.561 --> 00:38:16.797
so that we can control
it from a distance.

00:38:16.864 --> 00:38:18.432
Alright, let's go.

00:38:18.465 --> 00:38:21.235
(anxious music)

00:38:32.145 --> 00:38:33.680
I think we're in good shape.

00:38:33.714 --> 00:38:35.482
It doesn't look like there's
anyone on the property.

00:38:35.549 --> 00:38:38.519
I'm trying to get as close
to the wall as possible.

00:38:38.585 --> 00:38:39.887
A little closer.

00:38:41.255 --> 00:38:43.924
Okay, we're right up
against the wall now.

00:38:43.991 --> 00:38:46.293
I'm gonna raise
the scissor lift.

00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:48.095
Okay. The lift is going up.

00:38:50.764 --> 00:38:54.568
It's definitely windy or
it's on unsteady ground.

00:38:55.802 --> 00:38:57.104
It looks like there's mesh.

00:38:57.171 --> 00:38:59.573
It looks like it's
pretty hard to see in.

00:39:01.241 --> 00:39:03.076
- [Mark Voiceover]
It was a disaster.

00:39:03.110 --> 00:39:06.413
After all that it was
impossible to see inside.

00:39:06.446 --> 00:39:09.082
And when I drove the
robot back to the roadside

00:39:09.116 --> 00:39:12.119
to pick it up, things
got even worse.

00:39:12.152 --> 00:39:14.555
A truck from the
company drove in

00:39:14.588 --> 00:39:16.990
and parked right next to it.

00:39:17.257 --> 00:39:18.926
- If we can drive this
into the middle of the road

00:39:18.959 --> 00:39:21.562
and pick up the robot,
even if they follow us,

00:39:21.595 --> 00:39:23.564
we still are able to
get the robot back.

00:39:23.597 --> 00:39:25.632
Are you guys okay with that?

00:39:25.666 --> 00:39:28.335
All right, let's
actually put that away.

00:39:28.402 --> 00:39:30.137
We were able to pick
it up and get away,

00:39:30.170 --> 00:39:33.240
which gave us another chance
at a different facility.

00:39:33.307 --> 00:39:35.976
I could see the pigs
crammed into pens,

00:39:36.009 --> 00:39:38.612
standing on concrete
floors with slats

00:39:38.645 --> 00:39:40.881
that their waste
just falls through

00:39:40.948 --> 00:39:44.017
with no escape from each
other and nothing to enjoy.

00:39:44.084 --> 00:39:46.286
And I saw the
scrapes and bruises

00:39:46.353 --> 00:39:49.122
that they would rarely have
under normal circumstances

00:39:49.189 --> 00:39:50.958
- When they're ready
to be slaughtered,

00:39:51.024 --> 00:39:53.961
they travel by road sometimes
for very long distances

00:39:54.027 --> 00:39:57.631
and that often triggers kind
of an acute stress state

00:39:57.664 --> 00:39:58.699
in these animals.

00:39:59.499 --> 00:40:01.301
- To see that I went to Canada

00:40:01.368 --> 00:40:03.837
where I could track pigs
traveling from Alberta

00:40:03.871 --> 00:40:06.139
to British Columbia
through the mountains.

00:40:06.173 --> 00:40:09.009
I needed a totally new type
of investigative equipment

00:40:09.042 --> 00:40:11.311
that I could attach
to transport trucks,

00:40:11.345 --> 00:40:14.515
designed and built from scratch.

00:40:14.548 --> 00:40:18.118
This is the the device.
There's the lens.

00:40:18.185 --> 00:40:21.655
We stick this through
the truck hole

00:40:21.688 --> 00:40:26.360
and then we try to screw these
on at the first brake check.

00:40:26.393 --> 00:40:27.861
- [Person] As quickly
as we can, yeah.

00:40:27.928 --> 00:40:30.330
The camera will send
it to this receiver.

00:40:30.397 --> 00:40:32.432
- [Mark] And there's
the live monitor.

00:40:32.499 --> 00:40:34.067
- [Person] Right, and with
the range that this thing has,

00:40:34.101 --> 00:40:35.869
we can keep the car
back far enough that

00:40:35.903 --> 00:40:37.504
we don't have to worry
about being noticed.

00:40:37.571 --> 00:40:42.509
- This is quite a thing to
try to sneak through the hole

00:40:42.543 --> 00:40:44.845
in the side of a
transport truck.

00:40:44.878 --> 00:40:46.046
- [Person] It's
not super discreet.

00:40:46.113 --> 00:40:47.814
- Thankfully the
inventor provided me

00:40:47.848 --> 00:40:50.117
with these crystal
clear instructions.

00:40:50.184 --> 00:40:51.418
- [Inventor] Make
sure this is on,

00:40:51.485 --> 00:40:52.519
there's your recording light.

00:40:52.586 --> 00:40:54.354
You're gonna have to drive
close to this vehicle,

00:40:54.421 --> 00:40:56.056
but when the truck's moving,
you're not going to
be able to hear shit.

00:40:56.123 --> 00:40:57.424
You know what I mean? Because
they're so fucking loud.

00:40:57.491 --> 00:40:59.293
And that's how I dropped
half the fucking shit.

00:40:59.359 --> 00:41:00.761
- [Mark] So off we went.

00:41:00.794 --> 00:41:03.764
She will get out and talk
to them on the left side

00:41:03.797 --> 00:41:06.900
and we will run up
on the right side

00:41:06.934 --> 00:41:09.536
while she's distracting
them, and plant the camera.

00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:11.171
- [Person] Yeah, and
there's a washroom

00:41:11.205 --> 00:41:12.539
down further that way.

00:41:12.573 --> 00:41:14.508
So there's a justification
for us walking there.

00:41:14.541 --> 00:41:17.544
- And washroom are
what Americans called
bathrooms, right?

00:41:17.578 --> 00:41:19.079
- [Person] There's a bathroom...
- Okay.

00:41:19.146 --> 00:41:21.215
[Mark Voiceover] And with
that foolproof plan...

00:41:21.281 --> 00:41:22.382
So he's about to pull over.

00:41:22.416 --> 00:41:23.183
- [Person] Yeah.

00:41:23.217 --> 00:41:24.751
- Let's drive up a little bit.

00:41:28.488 --> 00:41:30.290
Because otherwise
we'll lose visual.

00:41:31.792 --> 00:41:34.895
I'm just talking loud
for the camera. Sorry.

00:41:34.928 --> 00:41:35.896
- [Person] Oh.

00:41:35.963 --> 00:41:37.531
That truck left.

00:41:37.564 --> 00:41:38.732
- So he didn't even try.

00:41:38.765 --> 00:41:39.900
- [Person] He didn't even
stop and check his brakes.

00:41:39.933 --> 00:41:41.401
- So he's just a bad person.

00:41:41.435 --> 00:41:42.302
- [Person] Yes.

00:41:42.336 --> 00:41:43.470
- Trucks weren't stopping

00:41:43.504 --> 00:41:46.106
and people were
getting suspicious.

00:41:46.139 --> 00:41:48.242
So when one finally did stop,

00:41:48.275 --> 00:41:50.777
we had to get everything
right on one try.

00:41:50.811 --> 00:41:53.113
- You want me to put the
camera down for a second?

00:41:54.414 --> 00:41:55.315
- No.

00:41:55.349 --> 00:41:56.650
- Okay.

00:41:56.683 --> 00:41:58.218
- Wait until he does
the whole break check.

00:41:58.285 --> 00:41:59.586
- ...until he does the brake
check. All right, let's go.

00:41:59.653 --> 00:42:02.289
(anxious music)

00:42:08.161 --> 00:42:09.329
We made it work.

00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:16.103
The first thing I noticed
was, again, how many scrapes

00:42:16.136 --> 00:42:17.437
and bruises they had.

00:42:26.680 --> 00:42:30.050
Here, the individual in the
middle has begun vomiting.

00:42:39.893 --> 00:42:41.828
Since the uses of
cattle vary more,

00:42:41.862 --> 00:42:43.964
I focused on the
most common practices

00:42:43.997 --> 00:42:45.499
in places like the US.

00:42:45.566 --> 00:42:46.767
- When you're
driving down the road

00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:49.136
and you see cattle
grazing in a field,

00:42:49.169 --> 00:42:51.271
they won't stay there
all their lives.

00:42:51.305 --> 00:42:53.707
They then get moved into
what are called feedlots.

00:42:53.774 --> 00:42:55.809
They develop all kinds
of digestive problems

00:42:55.843 --> 00:42:56.743
as a result of that.

00:42:56.810 --> 00:42:58.178
They probably feel sick.

00:42:58.245 --> 00:43:00.347
- [Mark] Okay, that's
cattle raised for beef,

00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:02.082
but what about dairy?

00:43:02.149 --> 00:43:03.817
Dairy is really bizarre.

00:43:03.851 --> 00:43:06.053
So it can be pretty
hard to understand.

00:43:06.086 --> 00:43:08.856
So I supplemented the scientists
with someone who worked

00:43:08.889 --> 00:43:12.492
as a private undercover
investigator at
dairy facilities.

00:43:12.526 --> 00:43:15.829
- Before I got into working
as an undercover investigator,

00:43:15.863 --> 00:43:19.066
I was a police officer
for seven years.

00:43:19.132 --> 00:43:23.036
I've worked at four dairy
farms as an investigator.

00:43:23.103 --> 00:43:26.406
- How was I going to
investigate dairy farms?

00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:29.910
There seem to be people on
the property all the time.

00:43:29.977 --> 00:43:31.411
This is a good disguise, right?

00:43:31.445 --> 00:43:33.514
I look like a
construction worker.

00:43:33.547 --> 00:43:35.082
- [Camera Operator] Um, no.

00:43:37.217 --> 00:43:39.686
- I persuaded a friend
to get a certification

00:43:39.720 --> 00:43:41.355
to operate bucket lifts.

00:43:41.388 --> 00:43:44.858
And of course we practiced
with several different ones.

00:43:44.925 --> 00:43:47.661
You definitely read
the instruction manual

00:43:47.694 --> 00:43:49.196
for this one, right?

00:43:49.229 --> 00:43:52.065
(vehicle beeping)

00:43:54.201 --> 00:43:56.703
Then, it was onto
the dairy farms,

00:43:56.770 --> 00:44:00.240
where I saw firsthand
exactly what the scientists

00:44:00.274 --> 00:44:02.142
and investigator described.

00:44:02.209 --> 00:44:03.110
- There's no grass.

00:44:03.177 --> 00:44:05.379
- The cow is essentially
standing or lying

00:44:05.445 --> 00:44:08.982
in its own manure,
in its own excrement.

00:44:32.172 --> 00:44:34.908
- They have to give birth
in order to produce milk.

00:44:34.975 --> 00:44:38.579
- The calf is usually taken
away within a day or two.

00:44:38.645 --> 00:44:40.414
Many cows show a
lot of distress.

00:44:40.447 --> 00:44:43.150
They search for the
calf, they call.

00:44:43.217 --> 00:44:45.085
- The calf is
screaming and crying.

00:44:45.152 --> 00:44:49.389
- They're usually put in
these small crates or hutches.

00:44:49.456 --> 00:44:50.624
- And then grows up

00:44:50.657 --> 00:44:53.327
in a completely controlled
solitary confinement.

00:44:54.795 --> 00:44:57.464
(uneasy music)

00:45:00.167 --> 00:45:02.603
- [Mark] Even knowing
what they would be like,

00:45:02.636 --> 00:45:05.472
the hutches were truly shocking.

00:45:05.506 --> 00:45:06.907
Hundreds of individuals,

00:45:06.940 --> 00:45:08.909
who would normally be
with their mothers,

00:45:08.976 --> 00:45:11.712
trapped in crates
and fed formula.

00:45:14.515 --> 00:45:15.649
After looking at all this,

00:45:15.682 --> 00:45:19.019
I realized there's another
huge category of animals

00:45:19.052 --> 00:45:22.322
that we use in this
industry, marine animals.

00:45:22.389 --> 00:45:25.993
- The more distantly
related a species is,

00:45:26.059 --> 00:45:29.429
it's hard to understand how
to read their body language,

00:45:29.463 --> 00:45:32.499
how to interpret their
behavioral cues and signals,

00:45:32.566 --> 00:45:34.635
doesn't mean that
they aren't happening.

00:45:34.701 --> 00:45:37.104
The more we learn,
the more we understand

00:45:37.137 --> 00:45:39.873
that they live fascinating
and complex lives.

00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:42.142
Just to take a common
example, tilapia.

00:45:42.176 --> 00:45:43.644
They have different
social structures.

00:45:43.677 --> 00:45:46.480
They might engage in even
parental care and making nests

00:45:46.513 --> 00:45:49.016
and having tight-knit
hierarchical families.

00:45:49.082 --> 00:45:51.919
Atlantic halibut are having
a completely different life,

00:45:51.985 --> 00:45:54.655
going on massive migrations
through the sea mounts.

00:45:54.721 --> 00:45:56.023
- [Mark] I met with the captain

00:45:56.056 --> 00:45:58.692
of a Sea Shepherd
Conservation Society ship.

00:45:58.759 --> 00:46:01.695
It's an organization known
for ocean conservation work.

00:46:01.762 --> 00:46:05.098
But I asked him about
the individual fish.

00:46:05.165 --> 00:46:09.036
- Fish are stabbed to death.
They're asphyxiated to death.

00:46:09.069 --> 00:46:10.838
They are crushed to death.

00:46:10.904 --> 00:46:12.873
Over 1 trillion animals killed.

00:46:12.940 --> 00:46:14.608
1 trillion is a
thousand billion.

00:46:14.641 --> 00:46:16.009
And I think it's
important to remember that

00:46:16.043 --> 00:46:19.847
that's 1,000 billion times
one individual creature.

00:46:19.913 --> 00:46:22.349
A trawler essentially
drags a net

00:46:22.416 --> 00:46:25.085
and bulldozes any ocean habitat.

00:46:25.152 --> 00:46:27.554
A purse seine fishing
vessel sets their net

00:46:27.588 --> 00:46:29.089
around a school of fish.

00:46:29.122 --> 00:46:30.524
The net is pulled in tight

00:46:30.557 --> 00:46:32.092
until some of them
actually crushed.

00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:34.261
- [Mark] Sea Shepherd is now
working with the governments

00:46:34.328 --> 00:46:36.563
of several African
nations to do things

00:46:36.597 --> 00:46:38.232
like ensuring that
fishing vessels

00:46:38.265 --> 00:46:40.267
are operating with
the proper permits.

00:46:40.534 --> 00:46:43.770
But this allows Sea Shepherd
to do something else:

00:46:43.804 --> 00:46:48.075
film standard commercial
fishing practices.

00:46:48.108 --> 00:46:50.777
(uneasy music)

00:47:08.529 --> 00:47:09.930
But there's another way

00:47:09.963 --> 00:47:14.168
humans now obtain fish:
industrial aquaculture.

00:47:14.234 --> 00:47:17.271
- It's the same as any
sort of industrialized,

00:47:17.304 --> 00:47:20.941
highly mechanized
production system.

00:47:21.008 --> 00:47:23.744
Physiological
abnormalities at birth

00:47:23.777 --> 00:47:25.913
through to intensive crowding.

00:47:25.979 --> 00:47:28.282
The first and most
important thing

00:47:28.315 --> 00:47:30.751
that you need to turn
to is water quality.

00:47:30.784 --> 00:47:33.253
And of the parameters
in water quality,

00:47:33.287 --> 00:47:35.389
perhaps the most
important is ammonia.

00:47:35.455 --> 00:47:37.457
They are living in
a toxic environment

00:47:37.491 --> 00:47:40.394
if there's even just a little
bit of ammonia in the water.

00:47:41.562 --> 00:47:43.297
- So I traveled to
one of the centers

00:47:43.330 --> 00:47:46.466
of the fish farming industry
to collect water samples

00:47:46.500 --> 00:47:48.068
and test them for ammonia.

00:47:48.135 --> 00:47:52.139
I would have to fly a drone
with a sterilized test tube

00:47:52.172 --> 00:47:55.642
attached to some kind of a
cable to collect the samples.

00:47:55.676 --> 00:47:57.611
But what kind of disguise

00:47:57.644 --> 00:47:59.613
was going to explain
that one away?

00:48:01.882 --> 00:48:03.250
All right. Ready to go.

00:48:04.585 --> 00:48:05.986
(drone humming)

00:48:06.019 --> 00:48:10.023
Okay, I'm releasing
the test tube.

00:48:11.425 --> 00:48:13.560
Okay, here we go.

00:48:15.863 --> 00:48:16.930
All right, we're good.

00:48:17.931 --> 00:48:19.333
After several attempts

00:48:19.399 --> 00:48:22.202
and some pretty stunning
accidental footage

00:48:22.236 --> 00:48:26.006
of how massive these facilities
are, we made it work.

00:48:26.073 --> 00:48:30.010
Here is a fast-forward of
pulling out the water sample,

00:48:30.043 --> 00:48:32.813
flying back to the truck
where we had the testing kit

00:48:32.846 --> 00:48:33.714
ready to go,

00:48:35.916 --> 00:48:38.418
lowering the drone so that
I could remove the test tube

00:48:38.452 --> 00:48:39.820
containing the water sample,

00:48:43.357 --> 00:48:45.459
and then testing it.

00:48:47.127 --> 00:48:50.030
I tested the nitrates
first for background

00:48:50.063 --> 00:48:52.099
and then, ammonia.

00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:55.702
After putting in the
required testing chemicals

00:48:55.736 --> 00:48:57.771
and waiting the
required five minutes,

00:48:59.907 --> 00:49:04.878
the presence of toxic
ammonia was all too clear.

00:49:08.916 --> 00:49:11.552
Pull over for a second.
Pull over here for a second.

00:49:11.618 --> 00:49:14.054
So we're coming back from
these investigations,

00:49:14.087 --> 00:49:20.561
and I think we're
somewhere where the science

00:49:20.594 --> 00:49:23.764
and the investigations,
they've hit their limit.

00:49:23.797 --> 00:49:28.569
And the question now is
about what this all means.

00:49:28.602 --> 00:49:31.471
And that's a question
of philosophy.

00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:36.243
That led me to something I
hadn't thought deeply about

00:49:36.276 --> 00:49:40.747
in years, and the true
core of this journey.

00:49:40.781 --> 00:49:42.583
I decided I had to do something

00:49:42.616 --> 00:49:45.819
that's a little strange
for a documentary:

00:49:45.853 --> 00:49:50.257
directly investigate a
philosophical argument.

00:49:50.290 --> 00:49:52.860
This took me to Athens, Greece.

00:49:52.926 --> 00:49:54.962
Along with a Greek
history scholar

00:49:54.995 --> 00:49:57.097
I walked up a hill
overlooking the place

00:49:57.130 --> 00:49:58.932
where thousands of years ago,

00:49:58.966 --> 00:50:00.767
one of the most
important moments

00:50:00.801 --> 00:50:03.971
in our species' cultural
history unfolded.

00:50:04.037 --> 00:50:06.940
So what are we looking
at here, first of all?

00:50:06.974 --> 00:50:08.475
- The Ancient Agora.

00:50:08.509 --> 00:50:11.512
The very place where
the great philosophers

00:50:11.545 --> 00:50:13.747
and in particular
Socrates used to meet.

00:50:13.814 --> 00:50:16.617
The very idea of
philosophical reasoning,

00:50:16.650 --> 00:50:20.587
logic used as a method to
discuss ethical questions,

00:50:20.621 --> 00:50:22.089
it starts there.

00:50:22.122 --> 00:50:24.124
- You can actually ask, why
do we hold this position-

00:50:24.157 --> 00:50:24.958
- Exactly.

00:50:24.992 --> 00:50:25.959
- And maybe we find out

00:50:25.993 --> 00:50:26.860
that we're wrong.
- Yes.

00:50:26.927 --> 00:50:28.495
- [Mark] And from
there I traveled

00:50:28.529 --> 00:50:30.464
to meet present-day
philosophers,

00:50:30.497 --> 00:50:33.367
beginning with perhaps the
most influential philosopher

00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:38.038
of the past century, whose
1975 book, "Animal Liberation,"

00:50:38.071 --> 00:50:40.841
updated and retitled
"Animal Liberation Now,"

00:50:40.874 --> 00:50:43.177
is credited with
igniting a revolution

00:50:43.210 --> 00:50:45.679
in how humankind
views other species.

00:50:45.746 --> 00:50:49.183
What was your philosophical
argument here?

00:50:49.216 --> 00:50:54.154
- Well, the argument was simply
applying to animals ideas

00:50:54.188 --> 00:50:55.822
that most people already accept

00:50:55.856 --> 00:50:59.159
with regard to things
like racism and sexism.

00:50:59.193 --> 00:51:02.496
- [Mark] Okay, an argument
is a set of statements,

00:51:02.529 --> 00:51:06.667
called premises, that
logically lead to a conclusion.

00:51:06.700 --> 00:51:09.903
So here is the main
philosophical argument

00:51:09.970 --> 00:51:13.540
- Among the various ethical
codes around the world,

00:51:13.607 --> 00:51:17.144
one principle in common, the
principle of nonmaleficence,

00:51:17.177 --> 00:51:19.580
which is the
principle that says,

00:51:19.613 --> 00:51:23.717
it's generally speaking
wrong to harm others.

00:51:23.784 --> 00:51:28.522
(energetic music)
(keys typing)

00:51:28.589 --> 00:51:31.091
- Nonhuman animals or
anyway, many of them

00:51:32.226 --> 00:51:33.594
are capable of feeling pain,

00:51:33.627 --> 00:51:35.362
are capable of
suffering as we are.

00:51:35.729 --> 00:51:40.334
(energetic music)
(keys typing)

00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:43.103
- Other animals matter morally.

00:51:43.136 --> 00:51:45.038
(energetic music)
(keys typing)

00:51:49.076 --> 00:51:51.044
- Can such a simple
chain of logic

00:51:51.078 --> 00:51:54.381
upend humankind's
view of other species?

00:51:54.414 --> 00:51:56.884
Is there a valid objection
to this argument,

00:51:56.950 --> 00:52:00.387
something that would justify
excluding nonhuman animals

00:52:00.420 --> 00:52:02.189
from the nonmaleficence
principle,

00:52:02.256 --> 00:52:04.791
or at least make
harming them less bad?

00:52:04.825 --> 00:52:06.860
I reviewed the
philosophical literature

00:52:06.927 --> 00:52:08.896
and put to them
what appeared to be

00:52:08.929 --> 00:52:11.298
the most commonly
made objections.

00:52:11.365 --> 00:52:14.034
We can do lots of things
that other animals can't,

00:52:14.067 --> 00:52:18.071
like we're smarter, we're
capable of thinking about ethics

00:52:18.105 --> 00:52:19.473
and making ethical judgements.

00:52:19.540 --> 00:52:21.708
- The things that you
mentioned actually aren't true

00:52:21.742 --> 00:52:22.776
of all human beings.

00:52:22.843 --> 00:52:24.611
- Even if we're only
talking about babies.

00:52:24.678 --> 00:52:27.080
- And people who are
intellectually disabled

00:52:27.114 --> 00:52:28.882
or who have Alzheimer's.

00:52:28.949 --> 00:52:33.387
(energetic music)
(keys typing)

00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:34.288
- [Mark] Oh, right.

00:52:34.354 --> 00:52:36.490
To help make all this concrete,

00:52:36.523 --> 00:52:38.091
I visited some people I know.

00:52:38.158 --> 00:52:41.929
On the left is Mark, on the
right is his sister Maureen.

00:52:41.962 --> 00:52:44.164
And in the middle is
their brother, Brian.

00:52:44.231 --> 00:52:47.000
- He's one of the friendliest,
happiest people I know.

00:52:47.067 --> 00:52:49.937
His single most noticeable
attribute is his smile.

00:52:50.003 --> 00:52:52.639
- Would he be considered
intellectually disabled?

00:52:52.673 --> 00:52:55.976
- Definitely, yeah. He lives
in a group home right now.

00:52:56.009 --> 00:52:57.678
He wouldn't be able
to live by himself.

00:52:57.744 --> 00:53:01.281
Of course, Brian's wellbeing
is important as yours are mine.

00:53:01.315 --> 00:53:04.651
He experiences joy and sadness
just like anybody else.

00:53:04.718 --> 00:53:06.286
- And finally,

00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:08.488
isn't it just part of some
sort of natural order?

00:53:08.555 --> 00:53:10.958
- Natural and good are
like Venn diagrams.

00:53:10.991 --> 00:53:12.860
There's a set of things that
are both natural and good.

00:53:12.893 --> 00:53:14.361
There are natural
things that are bad.

00:53:14.394 --> 00:53:17.798
It's perfectly natural
to die of malaria.

00:53:17.831 --> 00:53:20.767
And there are good things that
are unnatural, like medicine.

00:53:20.834 --> 00:53:23.637
Murder is natural.
Every very human society

00:53:23.704 --> 00:53:25.939
has witnessed people
killing each other.

00:53:26.006 --> 00:53:28.475
But we've determined that
this is out of bounds,

00:53:28.509 --> 00:53:30.811
because it creates
too much suffering.

00:53:30.844 --> 00:53:35.983
(energetic music)
(keys typing)

00:53:36.517 --> 00:53:38.685
- I tried one more off
the top of my head.

00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:41.889
Shouldn't we just take
care of our own sort of,

00:53:41.922 --> 00:53:43.323
I mean, isn't it-

00:53:43.357 --> 00:53:44.625
- Well, that's exactly

00:53:44.658 --> 00:53:45.993
what the racist will
say, of course, right?

00:53:46.026 --> 00:53:49.162
He will just define "our
own" as a narrower group.

00:53:49.229 --> 00:53:51.999
- In that case, you've just
arbitrarily chosen species

00:53:52.032 --> 00:53:55.035
because it's convenient,
but you have nothing to say

00:53:55.068 --> 00:53:57.337
to the white supremacist
that then says,

00:53:57.371 --> 00:53:58.972
"Well, I was born White,

00:53:59.006 --> 00:54:00.807
so why do I have to care
about Black people?"

00:54:00.874 --> 00:54:04.178
- [Mark] I can't refute
the logic of the arguments.

00:54:04.211 --> 00:54:07.314
It still feels like
they must be wrong.

00:54:07.347 --> 00:54:09.249
- That sounds like an
intuitive judgment,

00:54:09.316 --> 00:54:11.685
but we have to be
careful with intuitions

00:54:11.718 --> 00:54:14.688
that might actually
represent prejudices.

00:54:14.755 --> 00:54:17.858
- [Mark] And that is what
took me to a town in England

00:54:17.891 --> 00:54:20.761
to meet a former Oxford
clinical psychologist

00:54:20.827 --> 00:54:24.164
who added a new word to
the English language.

00:54:24.231 --> 00:54:28.068
- So I thought of speciesism

00:54:28.101 --> 00:54:31.538
to draw the parallel
with racism and sexism.

00:54:31.605 --> 00:54:36.009
- It's a kind of prejudice
that's not based in reason,

00:54:36.076 --> 00:54:37.911
that seems perfectly
normal to them,

00:54:37.945 --> 00:54:40.414
just like racism seemed
perfectly normal.

00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:43.383
- [Mark] And just to be a
hundred percent clear about

00:54:43.417 --> 00:54:45.085
what all this really means.

00:54:45.118 --> 00:54:46.887
So does this mean
we have to do things

00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.456
like giving nonhuman
animals the right to vote?

00:54:50.557 --> 00:54:52.259
- No. We don't
let children vote.

00:54:52.326 --> 00:54:54.094
- In fact, they don't
really need to use

00:54:54.127 --> 00:54:56.230
the concept of rights
in my argument at all.

00:54:56.263 --> 00:54:57.698
- [Mark] Got it.

00:54:57.731 --> 00:54:59.733
I decided to leave the
academics behind for a bit,

00:54:59.766 --> 00:55:03.570
and see if regular, everyday
people might have some answers

00:55:03.604 --> 00:55:06.773
by doing what Socrates did
thousands of years before,

00:55:06.807 --> 00:55:09.643
walking up to them
and asking questions.

00:55:09.676 --> 00:55:11.712
And what better place to do it

00:55:11.745 --> 00:55:13.747
than exactly where Socrates did?

00:55:13.780 --> 00:55:17.784
So it was back to Greece and
the Ancient Agora of Athens.

00:55:17.818 --> 00:55:19.887
Excuse me. You seem wise.

00:55:19.953 --> 00:55:22.656
Do you think humans are
more important ethically

00:55:22.689 --> 00:55:24.358
than other animals?

00:55:26.093 --> 00:55:26.960
- No.

00:55:27.027 --> 00:55:28.795
- Not necessarily. No.

00:55:28.862 --> 00:55:29.730
- I don't think so.

00:55:29.796 --> 00:55:31.265
- [Mark] To my surprise,

00:55:31.298 --> 00:55:34.768
most people were already
opposed to speciesism,

00:55:34.801 --> 00:55:36.737
but I found some who weren't.

00:55:36.803 --> 00:55:39.273
- Because they are
more intelligent.

00:55:39.306 --> 00:55:42.109
- So what about humans
who aren't as intelligent?

00:55:42.142 --> 00:55:43.710
Like, let's say, babies.

00:55:44.645 --> 00:55:45.479
- Ah, babies-

00:55:46.446 --> 00:55:48.482
- Are they less important?

00:55:48.515 --> 00:55:50.284
- No. No, no, no, no.

00:55:50.317 --> 00:55:53.253
- [Mark] So I took this show
on the road to San Francisco

00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:56.623
and Washington, DC
and Los Angeles,

00:55:56.657 --> 00:55:59.860
and of course, my
favorite city, Paris.

00:55:59.927 --> 00:56:02.496
- There is some
biological difference.

00:56:03.830 --> 00:56:05.999
- Biological difference
between humans and animals.

00:56:06.033 --> 00:56:09.102
So there's a biological
difference between
men and women.

00:56:09.136 --> 00:56:11.672
Does that mean we could
say, for example, we're men,

00:56:11.705 --> 00:56:12.973
women are less important

00:56:13.006 --> 00:56:14.474
because there's a
biological difference?

00:56:14.508 --> 00:56:15.876
- No. No, no.

00:56:15.909 --> 00:56:18.278
- Animals cannot do the
same things that we can do.

00:56:18.312 --> 00:56:19.813
- Right.

00:56:19.847 --> 00:56:22.482
And we can't do a lot of the
things that animals can do.

00:56:22.516 --> 00:56:25.285
- Yeah, okay.
- Flying, for example.

00:56:25.319 --> 00:56:27.120
- Okay. For sure.

00:56:27.154 --> 00:56:34.328
But like, I don't know, a
cat simply walking with four-

00:56:34.361 --> 00:56:36.697
- Right, they need four feet.
We could do it with two.

00:56:36.730 --> 00:56:37.364
Yeah. No, that's a good point.

00:56:37.431 --> 00:56:39.066
- Ability to reason

00:56:39.099 --> 00:56:43.170
and that kind of extra level
that makes us human, I suppose.

00:56:43.203 --> 00:56:44.338
- What about babies?

00:56:46.607 --> 00:56:47.608
- Hmm.

00:56:47.774 --> 00:56:49.910
- You're correctly following
the logic of my statement,

00:56:49.943 --> 00:56:51.111
I'll grant you that.

00:56:52.379 --> 00:56:56.183
You know, I was
brought up religiously.

00:56:56.250 --> 00:56:59.853
- People used theological
justifications

00:56:59.887 --> 00:57:02.055
or attempts at justification

00:57:02.089 --> 00:57:06.927
for exploitation of groups of
humans, like human slavery.

00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.396
How do we determine that
their interpretation

00:57:09.429 --> 00:57:11.865
was wrong then, with that-

00:57:11.899 --> 00:57:13.200
I assume you think that's wrong-

00:57:13.233 --> 00:57:14.501
- Yeah. I do.

00:57:14.535 --> 00:57:16.370
- and our attitude
towards animals

00:57:16.403 --> 00:57:21.175
and the theological
justifications are
not similarly wrong.

00:57:21.208 --> 00:57:23.010
- That's a really good question.

00:57:23.043 --> 00:57:24.511
- [Mark Voiceover] Pause.

00:57:24.545 --> 00:57:26.847
Of course, while people have
pointed to religious views

00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.050
in attempt to defend things
like, say, racial segregation,

00:57:30.083 --> 00:57:33.120
others used religious views
to oppose segregation.

00:57:33.153 --> 00:57:35.556
Similarly, there are
religious scholars today

00:57:35.589 --> 00:57:38.225
arguing for changing our
view of nonhuman animals.

00:57:38.258 --> 00:57:39.693
So anyway.

00:57:39.726 --> 00:57:41.728
- I don't think you segregate
people based on race,

00:57:41.762 --> 00:57:43.197
creed, color,
whatever it may be.

00:57:43.230 --> 00:57:45.566
- So why species?
- Why species?

00:57:46.567 --> 00:57:47.801
That's a good question.

00:57:47.835 --> 00:57:49.236
I don't know if I have
a solid answer for that,

00:57:49.269 --> 00:57:50.204
to be quite honest for you.

00:57:50.270 --> 00:57:53.073
- I'm a human. I
think I'm a human.

00:57:53.106 --> 00:57:54.074
I'm a human.

00:57:54.107 --> 00:57:55.242
- I assume you are.
- Yeah.

00:57:55.275 --> 00:57:59.446
So my perspective is that...

00:58:01.415 --> 00:58:04.585
I think I maybe I do think
people are more important?

00:58:04.618 --> 00:58:07.454
- Now, what if someone said,
"Well, look, we're both men,

00:58:07.487 --> 00:58:10.457
so we can agree that men are
more important than women."

00:58:11.491 --> 00:58:14.161
That seems like
the same principle.

00:58:15.629 --> 00:58:17.097
- Yeah, I guess you're right.

00:58:17.130 --> 00:58:19.266
- [Mark Voiceover] What in
the world is going on here?

00:58:19.299 --> 00:58:23.003
Nobody anywhere seems to have
any successful objections.

00:58:23.070 --> 00:58:25.606
And what's more, the
objections they attempted

00:58:25.672 --> 00:58:27.007
were basically the same

00:58:27.040 --> 00:58:29.343
as what the professional
philosophers tried.

00:58:29.409 --> 00:58:31.845
- It is somewhat embarrassing
to the profession,

00:58:31.879 --> 00:58:32.779
I think that's true.

00:58:32.813 --> 00:58:34.348
Just as again, you could go back

00:58:34.381 --> 00:58:36.083
and read what some
philosophers said

00:58:36.116 --> 00:58:40.153
about the position of
women, for example,

00:58:40.187 --> 00:58:41.588
and find that
embarrassing as well.

00:58:41.655 --> 00:58:43.524
The flaws in the
sexists and racists

00:58:43.557 --> 00:58:44.791
seem very obvious to us.

00:58:44.858 --> 00:58:46.827
But I'm sure that
future generations

00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:48.662
will look back on the
way we treat animals

00:58:48.695 --> 00:58:51.899
and on the excuses we
use to justify that

00:58:52.866 --> 00:58:57.538
and think of them as just
as lacking in good reason.

00:58:59.006 --> 00:59:00.541
- [Mark] How can so many of us

00:59:00.574 --> 00:59:03.510
believe something
without reasons?

00:59:03.544 --> 00:59:06.713
That's no longer a
question of philosophy,

00:59:06.747 --> 00:59:09.349
it's a question of psychology.

00:59:09.416 --> 00:59:10.951
- Together with my colleagues,

00:59:10.984 --> 00:59:13.787
we've investigated the
psychology of speciesism,

00:59:13.820 --> 00:59:16.390
and we found that speciesism
shows many properties

00:59:16.423 --> 00:59:18.158
of being a prejudice.

00:59:18.192 --> 00:59:20.727
So for example, it correlates
with other prejudices

00:59:20.761 --> 00:59:23.830
like racism, sexism...
Statistical correlation,

00:59:23.864 --> 00:59:26.834
somebody who shows particularly
strong speciesist views

00:59:26.867 --> 00:59:30.671
is more likely to have
racist or sexist tendencies.

00:59:30.737 --> 00:59:33.040
We found that young children

00:59:33.073 --> 00:59:35.309
are much less
speciesist than adults.

00:59:35.375 --> 00:59:37.811
These findings do
suggest that it's likely

00:59:37.845 --> 00:59:40.247
that, at least to quite
significant extent,

00:59:40.280 --> 00:59:43.317
speciesism actually is socially
acquired, socially learned.

00:59:43.383 --> 00:59:45.586
- [Mark] If it's even
partially learned,

00:59:45.619 --> 00:59:47.855
where are we learning it from?

00:59:47.888 --> 00:59:49.723
I don't remember
learning this anywhere.

00:59:49.790 --> 00:59:53.193
To answer that question, I
traveled to Berlin, Germany

00:59:53.227 --> 00:59:56.263
to meet another social
scientist, Dr. Melanie Joy.

00:59:56.330 --> 00:59:59.733
- When an ideology is dominant,
that means it's invisible

00:59:59.766 --> 01:00:01.068
and it's entrenched.

01:00:01.101 --> 01:00:05.239
It is so widespread that
we don't even see it.

01:00:05.305 --> 01:00:09.176
People typically don't recognize
that their preferences,

01:00:09.209 --> 01:00:14.181
their very thoughts and feelings
have been deeply influenced

01:00:14.214 --> 01:00:16.917
by an ideology that's
outside of their awareness.

01:00:16.984 --> 01:00:18.385
- These really strong intuitions

01:00:18.418 --> 01:00:21.755
that humans are more
valuable than animals.

01:00:21.788 --> 01:00:24.057
Maybe these intuitions
are quite similar

01:00:24.091 --> 01:00:29.763
to how historically racists
thought about the moral status

01:00:29.796 --> 01:00:31.932
of White and Black people.

01:00:31.965 --> 01:00:34.134
- Might the way that
our current view

01:00:34.201 --> 01:00:38.071
of nonhuman animals just
seems mundanely obvious,

01:00:38.372 --> 01:00:41.241
be exactly what it
felt like to be racist

01:00:41.308 --> 01:00:43.410
in an openly racist society?

01:00:43.477 --> 01:00:45.212
There was one way to find out:

01:00:45.279 --> 01:00:47.981
speak with a former
overt racist.

01:00:48.048 --> 01:00:51.118
You were the leader of the KKK.

01:00:51.151 --> 01:00:52.553
- Yes. The Ku Klux Klan.

01:00:52.619 --> 01:00:54.755
- [Mark] You did
wear robes, right?

01:00:54.821 --> 01:00:55.589
- [Person] Oh yes.

01:00:55.656 --> 01:00:57.257
- Were they comfortable?

01:00:57.324 --> 01:00:58.425
- Oh yeah. They
were comfortable.

01:00:58.492 --> 01:01:01.261
The town I grew up, it
was just common thoughts

01:01:01.295 --> 01:01:04.965
that Blacks were
inferior to the Whites.

01:01:05.032 --> 01:01:07.000
Just everyday people
growing up thinking this,

01:01:07.034 --> 01:01:09.970
and it wasn't
questioned or anything.

01:01:10.037 --> 01:01:11.405
- [Mark] It was
just invisible sort-

01:01:11.438 --> 01:01:13.674
- Yeah, it was kind
of invisible thing.

01:01:13.707 --> 01:01:17.110
- [Mark] If this is a
prejudice so deeply ingrained

01:01:17.144 --> 01:01:20.914
that we don't even see it,
where did it come from?

01:01:20.948 --> 01:01:24.184
That goes even deeper,
beyond psychology.

01:01:24.218 --> 01:01:26.954
It's now a question of history.

01:01:26.987 --> 01:01:29.857
Of course, just as prejudices
against groups of humans

01:01:29.890 --> 01:01:32.159
have been commonplace
across societies,

01:01:32.192 --> 01:01:34.795
speciesism seems
equally widespread.

01:01:34.828 --> 01:01:36.697
However, because
I'm from the West

01:01:36.730 --> 01:01:39.199
and considering the
West's current influence,

01:01:39.233 --> 01:01:41.668
I decided to focus on
how it developed here.

01:01:41.735 --> 01:01:43.637
I spoke with the
theology scholar,

01:01:43.670 --> 01:01:45.205
Reverend Dr. Christopher Carter,

01:01:45.272 --> 01:01:47.541
and the legal
scholar, Steven Wise.

01:01:47.608 --> 01:01:52.813
- The view in the West
that nonhuman animals

01:01:52.846 --> 01:01:57.150
are somehow created for us

01:01:57.184 --> 01:01:59.786
is something that goes back

01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:02.356
at least to the ancient Greeks,

01:02:02.389 --> 01:02:04.858
and became known as The
Great Chain of Being.

01:02:04.892 --> 01:02:06.159
- The idea of The
Great Chain of Being

01:02:06.193 --> 01:02:08.962
begins to coalesce
and emerge with Plato,

01:02:08.996 --> 01:02:11.498
and it gets more
refined with Aristotle,

01:02:11.532 --> 01:02:12.599
these Greek philosophers.

01:02:12.666 --> 01:02:15.702
- [Steven] Everything was
seen as having a place

01:02:15.736 --> 01:02:17.671
with those things on
the lower existing

01:02:17.704 --> 01:02:18.705
for those things on the higher.

01:02:18.772 --> 01:02:20.207
- [Christopher] Where
you have non-Greeks

01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:21.508
exist to serve Greeks,

01:02:21.542 --> 01:02:23.911
you have women that are
there to serve them,

01:02:23.944 --> 01:02:25.245
and you have slaves that exist

01:02:25.279 --> 01:02:26.813
to serve pretty much everybody.

01:02:26.847 --> 01:02:28.348
Nonhuman animals exist

01:02:28.382 --> 01:02:30.083
to be at the service
of human beings.

01:02:30.150 --> 01:02:31.685
- And really, everything
in the universe

01:02:31.718 --> 01:02:33.987
was made for human beings,
and that was really part

01:02:34.021 --> 01:02:35.722
of The Great Chain
of Being as well.

01:02:35.756 --> 01:02:38.025
- [Mark] There were two
scientific revolutions

01:02:38.058 --> 01:02:41.195
that helped undermine the myth
of The Great Chain of Being.

01:02:41.261 --> 01:02:44.665
The first was the Copernican
Revolution, when we discovered

01:02:44.698 --> 01:02:48.735
that the Earth was not quite
the center of the universe.

01:02:48.802 --> 01:02:51.438
The second was the
Darwinian revolution.

01:02:51.505 --> 01:02:53.373
- And it was in this house

01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:55.676
that Charles Darwin
wrote the books,

01:02:55.709 --> 01:02:59.379
which profoundly
changed our sense of

01:02:59.413 --> 01:03:01.448
where we sit in the
grand scheme of things.

01:03:01.515 --> 01:03:03.951
What was taken for
granted before Darwin was

01:03:03.984 --> 01:03:05.552
that people were on top,

01:03:05.586 --> 01:03:08.455
people were separate,
they were different.

01:03:08.522 --> 01:03:11.024
Darwin showed that
far from humans

01:03:11.058 --> 01:03:13.727
standing above the rest
of living creation,

01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:16.463
we were part of the same
evolutionary process

01:03:16.496 --> 01:03:18.265
that had produced
everything else.

01:03:18.298 --> 01:03:20.968
- [Mark] So Darwin
showed how all species

01:03:21.001 --> 01:03:24.738
are equally evolved for their
environments and challenges.

01:03:24.805 --> 01:03:27.274
And some species just
happened to develop

01:03:27.307 --> 01:03:29.409
certain extreme characteristics,

01:03:29.443 --> 01:03:32.079
such as giraffes'
very long necks

01:03:32.145 --> 01:03:35.582
and humans' very powerful
generalized cognition.

01:03:35.649 --> 01:03:37.417
- And so scientifically
they kind of discard

01:03:37.451 --> 01:03:38.986
The Great Chain of Being.

01:03:39.019 --> 01:03:44.658
But socially, theologically,
it's basically been embedded.

01:03:45.325 --> 01:03:47.895
- [Mark] Considering
just how embedded it was,

01:03:47.928 --> 01:03:51.064
this took a long time,
but at least in the West,

01:03:51.098 --> 01:03:54.168
we no longer widely
view some ethnicities

01:03:54.201 --> 01:03:57.271
as existing for
other ethnicities,

01:03:57.304 --> 01:04:00.774
or women as existing for men,

01:04:00.807 --> 01:04:05.679
or so-called natural slaves
as existing for free people.

01:04:07.114 --> 01:04:09.950
But we still hold onto the
view that nonhuman animals

01:04:09.983 --> 01:04:12.085
exist for humans.

01:04:12.152 --> 01:04:17.124
This suggests something even
deeper about how humans think.

01:04:17.157 --> 01:04:18.992
So I visited Michael Shermer,

01:04:19.026 --> 01:04:21.295
co-founder of the
Skeptics Society,

01:04:21.328 --> 01:04:22.930
who has dedicated his life

01:04:22.963 --> 01:04:25.465
to studying how people
can believe things

01:04:25.499 --> 01:04:28.802
and act in ways that
seem totally irrational.

01:04:28.869 --> 01:04:31.271
- All of us think we
are rational creatures,

01:04:31.305 --> 01:04:32.806
and for much of
our lives we are.

01:04:32.873 --> 01:04:33.807
- [Mark] But?

01:04:33.841 --> 01:04:35.108
- We are often engaged in

01:04:35.142 --> 01:04:37.511
what psychologists call
motivated reasoning.

01:04:37.544 --> 01:04:40.881
That is to say, we're
motivated to find evidence

01:04:40.914 --> 01:04:43.217
for what we want to be true,

01:04:43.250 --> 01:04:45.819
and to ignore or
rationalize evidence

01:04:45.853 --> 01:04:47.688
that's against what
we want to be true.

01:04:47.754 --> 01:04:49.189
Anyone watching
this is gonna go,

01:04:49.223 --> 01:04:51.825
"Well, of course I recognize
motivated reasoning

01:04:51.859 --> 01:04:54.661
in other people, but
fortunately, I don't do that."

01:04:54.728 --> 01:04:56.697
It's really, really hard
to see it in yourself.

01:04:56.763 --> 01:04:58.432
So if you find yourself saying,

01:05:00.067 --> 01:05:02.069
"I have to find out what's
wrong with this argument.

01:05:02.135 --> 01:05:03.670
How can I show that
this is wrong?"

01:05:03.704 --> 01:05:05.005
And if that's what you're doing,

01:05:05.038 --> 01:05:06.673
it's probably
motivated reasoning.

01:05:06.707 --> 01:05:10.010
- [Mark] And what does all this
have to do with speciesism?

01:05:10.077 --> 01:05:14.548
- All of Western tradition
intellectually has been

01:05:15.382 --> 01:05:19.586
in this kind of hierarchy of
complexity and moral worth

01:05:19.620 --> 01:05:21.655
with humans at the top,

01:05:21.688 --> 01:05:24.024
and it's sort of this
kind of gradation

01:05:24.057 --> 01:05:26.894
down the ladder of
creation to the simplest.

01:05:26.927 --> 01:05:31.398
And so that's a hard one
to overcome for most of us.

01:05:31.598 --> 01:05:34.902
- [Mark] Driving back, I
thought, if I'm truly honest

01:05:34.935 --> 01:05:38.038
with myself, I've
exhausted my objections.

01:05:38.105 --> 01:05:40.908
But looking back at
everything I'd investigated,

01:05:40.974 --> 01:05:43.577
if I can't justify speciesism,

01:05:43.610 --> 01:05:46.413
what does that mean
about those billions

01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:49.883
upon billions of individuals?

01:05:49.950 --> 01:05:53.620
Applying the philosophy,
following the logic faithfully,

01:05:53.654 --> 01:05:58.492
led me, unavoidably,
to a conclusion that
changed everything.

01:06:02.663 --> 01:06:04.798
- Looking back at
history should, I think,

01:06:04.831 --> 01:06:06.366
make us very skeptical

01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:09.169
of the common sense moral
intuitions that we have today.

01:06:09.236 --> 01:06:13.540
People have had enormous
moral blind spots.

01:06:13.574 --> 01:06:16.410
Throughout history, slavery
was almost universal.

01:06:16.443 --> 01:06:20.414
It's very hard to find even
great kind of moral thinkers

01:06:20.447 --> 01:06:24.918
note that slavery is
an abominable wrong,

01:06:24.952 --> 01:06:27.120
until, you know, even
the 18th century.

01:06:27.187 --> 01:06:31.391
And now just think, how awful
would it be to be that person

01:06:31.425 --> 01:06:34.261
to have been active in 1700

01:06:34.294 --> 01:06:37.431
and to consider yourself
a morally serious person

01:06:37.464 --> 01:06:39.466
trying to make the world better,

01:06:39.499 --> 01:06:43.170
but yet missing this
enormous moral issue

01:06:43.203 --> 01:06:45.005
of the wrongness of slavery.

01:06:46.507 --> 01:06:48.308
You don't want to
be that person.

01:06:48.342 --> 01:06:49.943
And if you don't want
to be that person,

01:06:49.977 --> 01:06:52.279
then you shouldn't want
to be that person now.

01:06:52.312 --> 01:06:53.747
And so we should look
around and think,

01:06:53.780 --> 01:06:55.282
"What are the things we're doing

01:06:55.315 --> 01:06:57.184
that might be on a
comparable scale?"

01:06:58.151 --> 01:06:59.486
- [Mark] This put some things

01:06:59.520 --> 01:07:03.090
that previous interviewees
had said in a new light.

01:07:03.123 --> 01:07:06.360
- The manner in which today
we view nonhuman animals

01:07:06.393 --> 01:07:09.296
is exactly analogous to the way

01:07:09.329 --> 01:07:14.334
that human slaves were viewed.

01:07:15.335 --> 01:07:17.137
- That was the exact same thing.

01:07:17.171 --> 01:07:18.705
It was literally the
exact same thing.

01:07:18.772 --> 01:07:21.175
- We enslave nonhuman animals.

01:07:21.208 --> 01:07:26.213
I don't see why there's any
reasonable claim that we don't.

01:07:27.347 --> 01:07:29.383
They are legal things.
We enslave them.

01:07:29.449 --> 01:07:30.984
- On the same scale,

01:07:31.018 --> 01:07:34.154
in fact, actually, literally
on an even greater scale

01:07:34.188 --> 01:07:36.223
than the atrocities of slavery.

01:07:36.256 --> 01:07:39.126
- [Mark] Indeed, these same
philosophical arguments

01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:44.164
were used by the abolitionists,
including Abraham Lincoln.

01:07:45.365 --> 01:07:49.469
Lincoln said, quote, "You say
A is white and B is black.

01:07:49.503 --> 01:07:50.704
Is it color, then,

01:07:50.737 --> 01:07:53.841
the lighter having the
right to enslave the darker?

01:07:53.874 --> 01:07:55.008
Take care.

01:07:55.042 --> 01:07:57.177
By this rule, you
are to be slave

01:07:57.211 --> 01:08:00.647
to the first man you meet with
a fairer skin than your own.

01:08:00.681 --> 01:08:02.683
You do not mean color exactly?

01:08:02.716 --> 01:08:05.385
You mean the Whites are
intellectually the superiors

01:08:05.419 --> 01:08:08.555
of the Blacks and therefore
have the right to enslave them?

01:08:08.589 --> 01:08:09.690
Take care again.

01:08:09.723 --> 01:08:11.525
By this rule, you
are to be slave

01:08:11.558 --> 01:08:13.093
to the first man you meet

01:08:13.126 --> 01:08:15.462
with an intellect
superior to your own."

01:08:16.396 --> 01:08:18.665
If the facts had turned
out to be different

01:08:18.699 --> 01:08:20.901
and some group of
people had turned out

01:08:20.934 --> 01:08:23.370
to actually be less
intelligent than another,

01:08:23.403 --> 01:08:25.038
would Lincoln have been wrong

01:08:25.072 --> 01:08:27.875
and slavery have been justified?

01:08:27.908 --> 01:08:29.409
Thinking about the present,

01:08:29.443 --> 01:08:30.844
might the ways that we feel

01:08:30.878 --> 01:08:33.046
about our current
uses of other animals,

01:08:33.080 --> 01:08:36.283
that it's just mundanely
obvious that they're justified

01:08:36.316 --> 01:08:40.254
be exactly how things felt
at the time of human slavery,

01:08:40.287 --> 01:08:45.125
banal, just like the racism
of that former KKK leader?

01:08:45.158 --> 01:08:47.861
And even if I'm still
not completely certain

01:08:47.895 --> 01:08:50.264
about the arguments,
I remembered something

01:08:50.297 --> 01:08:53.367
that Peter Singer said
to me about uncertainty.

01:08:53.433 --> 01:08:54.768
- If you're not
absolutely certain

01:08:54.801 --> 01:08:56.069
that my argument is mistaken,

01:08:56.103 --> 01:08:58.405
and I really don't
think you could be,

01:08:58.438 --> 01:09:01.275
then I think you would be
wrong to take the chance

01:09:01.308 --> 01:09:02.976
that you're doing something
so seriously wrong,

01:09:03.010 --> 01:09:05.412
that you're putting
yourself in the same side

01:09:05.445 --> 01:09:08.982
as the people who continued
to defend slavery,

01:09:09.016 --> 01:09:11.485
even though they had heard
some reasons for thinking

01:09:11.518 --> 01:09:12.953
that slavery could be wrong.

01:09:14.154 --> 01:09:17.925
- [Mark] I sat down
outside as it sunk in.

01:09:17.958 --> 01:09:21.929
Could abolishing the slavery
of members of our own species

01:09:21.962 --> 01:09:25.566
merely be scaling the foothills?

01:09:25.599 --> 01:09:28.435
Could the slavery of
all the other species

01:09:28.468 --> 01:09:31.471
be the true mountain
we have yet to climb?

01:09:33.674 --> 01:09:37.578
How can this be the
world I live in?

01:09:37.611 --> 01:09:41.815
It's unrecognizable compared
to the world I'd been living in

01:09:41.849 --> 01:09:45.786
or thought I was
living in all my life.

01:09:45.819 --> 01:09:48.455
How can I have the
courage to face

01:09:48.488 --> 01:09:51.024
what we are doing, what we are?

01:09:53.727 --> 01:09:57.965
If you were living at the
time of human slavery,

01:09:57.998 --> 01:10:00.434
would you be an
abolitionist, do you think?

01:10:00.467 --> 01:10:03.136
Or do you think you would've
been in support of slavery

01:10:03.170 --> 01:10:04.972
or at least neutral?

01:10:05.005 --> 01:10:07.708
- No, I wouldn't have been
in support of slavery.

01:10:08.876 --> 01:10:10.811
But that's also a
tough thing to say.

01:10:10.844 --> 01:10:12.012
That's easy for me to say now.

01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:13.947
- [Mark] Do you think you
would've been an abolitionist

01:10:13.981 --> 01:10:15.983
or do you think you would've
been alright with slavery?

01:10:16.049 --> 01:10:17.184
- Abolitionist.

01:10:17.251 --> 01:10:18.986
- [Mark] Even at a
time when most people

01:10:19.019 --> 01:10:20.187
were in favor of it

01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:22.689
and it was not thought
about seriously,

01:10:22.723 --> 01:10:23.824
you think you would've
been the person-

01:10:23.857 --> 01:10:24.858
- I think I would've, yes.

01:10:24.925 --> 01:10:27.194
- If everyone around me
didn't take it seriously,

01:10:27.227 --> 01:10:32.566
I would certainly feel
pressure or feel out of place.

01:10:32.599 --> 01:10:34.835
But I would hope
that I would try

01:10:34.868 --> 01:10:38.539
to push those
ideals, those ideas.

01:10:39.673 --> 01:10:42.242
- [Mark] Well, there seems to
be a growing number of humans

01:10:42.309 --> 01:10:45.145
who are opposing speciesism
and its consequences.

01:10:45.212 --> 01:10:46.680
So I met with leaders

01:10:46.713 --> 01:10:49.349
of today's nonhuman
animal advocacy movement.

01:10:49.683 --> 01:10:54.054
- If what happens to animals
were happening to humans,

01:10:54.087 --> 01:10:56.356
we would be absolutely outraged.

01:10:56.423 --> 01:10:58.358
And that is why I decided

01:10:58.392 --> 01:11:01.195
that I would be
completely dedicated

01:11:01.228 --> 01:11:03.263
to this cause my entire life.

01:11:03.297 --> 01:11:05.399
- [Mark] Which turned
all of this philosophy

01:11:05.432 --> 01:11:08.902
into something almost
jarringly practical.

01:11:08.969 --> 01:11:11.572
- The industry has a
very strong incentive

01:11:11.605 --> 01:11:13.273
to mislead consumers.

01:11:13.340 --> 01:11:15.676
- Corporations are going
to do whatever they can

01:11:15.709 --> 01:11:17.110
to sell their goods,

01:11:17.144 --> 01:11:19.546
and that also means
lying to the consumer.

01:11:19.613 --> 01:11:21.215
- So a lot of times the labels

01:11:21.248 --> 01:11:22.516
that you see on animal products,

01:11:22.583 --> 01:11:24.718
they're purposely advertising

01:11:24.751 --> 01:11:26.086
what the consumer wants to hear.

01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:29.223
- So we don't put
any focus on labels.

01:11:29.256 --> 01:11:32.860
We focus on ending the
worst forms of abuse.

01:11:32.926 --> 01:11:34.928
- Organizations around the world

01:11:34.995 --> 01:11:37.297
have got major companies to
improve welfare conditions

01:11:37.331 --> 01:11:38.432
in their supply chain.

01:11:38.465 --> 01:11:40.100
- And then we focus
on legislation.

01:11:40.167 --> 01:11:42.469
- They've banned
cages for laying hens

01:11:42.536 --> 01:11:44.238
and other such
pieces of legislation

01:11:44.271 --> 01:11:45.639
that are constantly
raising the bar.

01:11:45.706 --> 01:11:48.909
- [Mark] Then I learned,
that's only half the equation.

01:11:49.276 --> 01:11:53.580
- There is simply no way to
be able to meet the demand

01:11:53.614 --> 01:11:56.483
for meat that we currently
have without factory farming.

01:11:56.550 --> 01:11:58.585
In order for us to
end factory farms,

01:11:58.652 --> 01:12:01.054
we're going to have
to reduce the amount

01:12:01.088 --> 01:12:02.155
of animal products that we eat.

01:12:02.523 --> 01:12:04.224
- Okay.

01:12:04.291 --> 01:12:09.363
Why has an economist taken
me to the supermarket?

01:12:10.097 --> 01:12:12.099
- Because this issue can
feel abstract sometimes.

01:12:12.132 --> 01:12:14.101
So it's good to be where
the rubber hits the road,

01:12:14.134 --> 01:12:15.836
where your decisions
make a difference.

01:12:15.903 --> 01:12:17.304
It's a basic economic principle

01:12:17.337 --> 01:12:18.772
that they're going to
be stocking the shelves

01:12:18.805 --> 01:12:20.307
with the items that sell most.

01:12:20.340 --> 01:12:22.176
So if you buy fewer products,

01:12:22.209 --> 01:12:24.278
they're going to buy fewer of
these from their own supplier

01:12:24.311 --> 01:12:26.813
to stock the shelves with,
and that means these suppliers

01:12:26.847 --> 01:12:27.981
are going to produce
less animals.

01:12:28.048 --> 01:12:31.084
Approximately three-fourths
of your decisions

01:12:31.118 --> 01:12:34.087
get passed on to fewer
animals being produced.

01:12:34.154 --> 01:12:36.490
The average American eats
20 chickens per year.

01:12:36.523 --> 01:12:38.325
Let's say you cut all
of that out for a year,

01:12:38.392 --> 01:12:39.993
15 fewer chickens,

01:12:40.027 --> 01:12:42.429
so three-fourths
of that original 20

01:12:42.462 --> 01:12:44.932
are not going to have to
live in factory farms.

01:12:44.998 --> 01:12:48.268
It should be empowering to
know that your decisions here

01:12:48.302 --> 01:12:49.970
really do influence
the number of animals

01:12:50.003 --> 01:12:51.471
that live on factory farms.

01:12:51.505 --> 01:12:52.973
- [Mark] But there's a caveat.

01:12:53.006 --> 01:12:55.509
- For the same amount of
meat, more animals are harmed

01:12:55.542 --> 01:12:58.145
if eating smaller animals
like chickens and fish,

01:12:58.178 --> 01:12:59.947
cutting back on
poultry and seafood

01:12:59.980 --> 01:13:02.182
is sort of your biggest
bang for your buck.

01:13:02.216 --> 01:13:03.483
- Because so many people

01:13:03.517 --> 01:13:05.052
have already started
making these decisions,

01:13:05.085 --> 01:13:07.521
there are a lot fewer animals
living on factory farms today

01:13:07.554 --> 01:13:08.655
than there otherwise would be.

01:13:08.722 --> 01:13:12.192
- [Mark] So with animal
welfare reforms on one side

01:13:12.226 --> 01:13:14.494
and reducing demand
on the other side,

01:13:14.528 --> 01:13:16.063
now have we solved everything?

01:13:16.129 --> 01:13:18.832
Well, following the
arguments where they lead

01:13:18.866 --> 01:13:20.734
led me to one more factor

01:13:20.767 --> 01:13:23.036
and the legal scholar
Gary Francione.

01:13:23.103 --> 01:13:27.207
- Animals are property. They
are economic commodities.

01:13:27.274 --> 01:13:30.410
You cannot have the
institution of animal property

01:13:30.444 --> 01:13:34.448
without having the
interests of animals

01:13:35.449 --> 01:13:37.985
being accorded a different
weight, a lesser weight.

01:13:38.051 --> 01:13:41.855
This idea that we can talk about

01:13:41.889 --> 01:13:46.894
animals mattering morally
in some serious way

01:13:47.361 --> 01:13:51.265
while they're property
is as absurd as saying

01:13:51.298 --> 01:13:54.201
you can have human
slaves and they matter,

01:13:54.234 --> 01:13:57.571
they're very important,
even though they're slaves.

01:13:57.604 --> 01:13:58.839
- [Mark] This is
one of those things

01:13:58.872 --> 01:14:00.240
that once I heard about it,

01:14:00.274 --> 01:14:02.442
I felt like I should have
thought of it before:

01:14:02.476 --> 01:14:05.846
the inherent tensions between
taking nonhuman animals

01:14:05.879 --> 01:14:08.182
into comparable
consideration with humans

01:14:08.215 --> 01:14:11.051
and using nonhuman
animals as property

01:14:11.084 --> 01:14:12.853
and economic commodities.

01:14:12.886 --> 01:14:14.555
It was time to ask a question

01:14:14.588 --> 01:14:17.691
that would have seemed
absurd not long ago.

01:14:17.724 --> 01:14:20.727
Are there justifications
left for humankind

01:14:20.761 --> 01:14:23.096
continuing to use
animals in agriculture?

01:14:23.163 --> 01:14:24.898
Anticipating that question,

01:14:24.932 --> 01:14:27.568
Animals eat each other,
so shouldn't we eat them?

01:14:27.634 --> 01:14:31.071
- We would usually
not look to animals,

01:14:31.104 --> 01:14:33.106
other animals, as role models.

01:14:33.173 --> 01:14:34.575
- Like there's one
species of duck,

01:14:34.641 --> 01:14:36.210
it reproduces through rape.

01:14:36.276 --> 01:14:40.247
- Animals are not capable of
reflecting on the morality

01:14:40.280 --> 01:14:40.914
of what they do.

01:14:40.981 --> 01:14:42.950
- Oh, so that makes us special.

01:14:42.983 --> 01:14:45.953
- Well, certainly it makes
us, most of us again, right?

01:14:45.986 --> 01:14:48.255
This is not true of
all humans. Right?

01:14:48.288 --> 01:14:53.293
(energetic music)
(keys typing)

01:14:57.130 --> 01:14:59.800
- [Mark] And just to
cover all the bases,

01:14:59.833 --> 01:15:01.401
What if plants feel pain?

01:15:01.468 --> 01:15:02.636
- There is no good evidence,

01:15:02.703 --> 01:15:04.938
because advantage of
being able to feel pain

01:15:04.972 --> 01:15:07.307
is moving away from
a noxious stimulus.

01:15:07.341 --> 01:15:08.909
- [Person] If that is a concern,

01:15:08.976 --> 01:15:11.478
just remember, more plants
get fed to farmed animals.

01:15:11.545 --> 01:15:16.617
(energetic music)
(keys typing)

01:15:19.286 --> 01:15:21.955
- [Mark] But can
humankind really move away

01:15:21.989 --> 01:15:24.124
from the use of
animals in agriculture?

01:15:24.157 --> 01:15:28.529
To my surprise, that shift
may have already begun.

01:15:28.562 --> 01:15:31.598
- The real solution
has to be to make meat,

01:15:31.632 --> 01:15:32.900
but without the animals.

01:15:33.867 --> 01:15:35.302
- And that's where you come in.

01:15:35.335 --> 01:15:36.803
- That's where I come in.

01:15:36.837 --> 01:15:40.140
Meat is made up of lipids,
aminos, minerals, and water.

01:15:40.174 --> 01:15:42.442
That stuff exists
in plants as well.

01:15:42.476 --> 01:15:44.945
So we can essentially biomimic

01:15:44.978 --> 01:15:47.014
the meat experience with plants.

01:15:47.080 --> 01:15:49.616
We're pretty early in
this evolution to products

01:15:49.683 --> 01:15:51.985
that taste the same or better
and cost the same or less,

01:15:52.019 --> 01:15:53.353
but early signs are excellent.

01:15:53.420 --> 01:15:54.988
- [Mark] So I tried
some for myself.

01:15:55.022 --> 01:15:57.558
- People have been dining at
our establishment for months

01:15:57.624 --> 01:16:00.827
only to find out that it was
plant-based a few months in.

01:16:00.894 --> 01:16:03.664
- [Mark] Mind if I try your
plant-based chicken right now?

01:16:03.697 --> 01:16:05.165
- Of course.

01:16:05.199 --> 01:16:07.367
- It tastes like chicken.
And it's just made of plants

01:16:07.401 --> 01:16:08.368
- Without bloodshed.

01:16:08.435 --> 01:16:10.304
Meat industry has
done a very good job

01:16:10.337 --> 01:16:13.073
at planting seeds of doubt
and consumers' minds.

01:16:13.140 --> 01:16:15.375
We make a lot of our
plant-based analogs ourselves.

01:16:15.409 --> 01:16:16.677
It's very simple.

01:16:16.710 --> 01:16:20.047
- So this is entirely
plant-based sushi.

01:16:20.113 --> 01:16:22.349
- I became a sushi chef at 17.

01:16:22.416 --> 01:16:23.750
I'm still doing the same things,

01:16:23.817 --> 01:16:25.686
but just with
plant-based ingredients

01:16:25.752 --> 01:16:27.855
and nobody seems to
notice the difference.

01:16:27.921 --> 01:16:29.356
This is our salmon tataki roll.

01:16:29.423 --> 01:16:31.525
- It tastes like salmon.

01:16:32.926 --> 01:16:34.828
That's not amazing to you.
I guess you're used to it.

01:16:34.862 --> 01:16:35.662
(Sandy laughs)

01:16:35.696 --> 01:16:36.930
Then it occurred to me:

01:16:36.964 --> 01:16:38.999
much of what humankind
has traditionally eaten

01:16:39.032 --> 01:16:40.734
is already plant-based.

01:16:40.767 --> 01:16:42.035
So I visited a
friend from India.

01:16:42.302 --> 01:16:43.937
So you actually grew up
completely vegetarian.

01:16:43.971 --> 01:16:44.905
- Completely vegetarian.

01:16:44.972 --> 01:16:46.273
Never occurred to me

01:16:46.306 --> 01:16:47.741
that animal can also be
something that you eat.

01:16:47.808 --> 01:16:50.344
It is just so bizarre,
eating corpse of some animal,

01:16:50.410 --> 01:16:53.380
which has all these organs
like intestine and brain,

01:16:53.447 --> 01:16:55.449
washing the blood and
cutting it into pieces

01:16:55.516 --> 01:16:57.718
and eating different muscles,
different body parts.

01:16:57.784 --> 01:17:00.721
We know like thousands
of dishes, which is-

01:17:00.754 --> 01:17:02.623
- Do you personally know
thousands of dishes?

01:17:02.656 --> 01:17:03.624
- Yes.

01:17:03.657 --> 01:17:05.859
Chickpea curry. We are going
to add some coconut milk.

01:17:05.893 --> 01:17:06.760
Next step is eating.

01:17:06.793 --> 01:17:07.561
- Okay.

01:17:07.694 --> 01:17:09.563
That's actually the only one
I know how to do correctly.

01:17:09.630 --> 01:17:10.697
That's really good.

01:17:10.764 --> 01:17:12.466
- This is
khichdi: quinoa, lentils,

01:17:12.499 --> 01:17:14.067
onion, garlic, ginger.

01:17:14.134 --> 01:17:15.769
- That's like, so flavorful.

01:17:15.836 --> 01:17:20.140
How did you become the
world's tofu expert?

01:17:20.174 --> 01:17:23.443
- Well, first of all, I'm
not the world's tofu expert.

01:17:23.477 --> 01:17:24.778
There are tons of
people out there

01:17:24.811 --> 01:17:26.613
who know way more
about tofu than I do.

01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:29.049
I fell in love with tofu
while living in China.

01:17:29.082 --> 01:17:31.285
Apprenticed under a
fifth generation master,

01:17:31.351 --> 01:17:34.288
ended up watching a movie with
friends called "Speciesism."

01:17:34.354 --> 01:17:35.756
That was your film, yeah.

01:17:35.789 --> 01:17:37.357
- That was my
previous documentary.

01:17:37.424 --> 01:17:39.560
- There's spongy tofu,
there's pressed tofu,

01:17:39.593 --> 01:17:41.461
which is dense and chewy.

01:17:41.495 --> 01:17:42.796
There's Shanghai tofu.

01:17:42.829 --> 01:17:45.265
It absorbs any sauces
that you cook it with.

01:17:45.332 --> 01:17:46.466
Think of tofu like chicken.

01:17:46.533 --> 01:17:48.902
You can stir fry it, you
can add it to salads,

01:17:48.969 --> 01:17:50.103
you can put it on the grill.

01:17:50.170 --> 01:17:52.639
It's the perfect center
of plate protein.

01:17:52.706 --> 01:17:55.242
- [Mark] Speaking of protein,
all these elite athletes

01:17:55.275 --> 01:17:56.743
who are eating plant-based now,

01:17:56.810 --> 01:17:59.012
a lot of them must eat
these different tofu dishes.

01:17:59.079 --> 01:18:00.681
- Yeah. You can use
any sauce you like,

01:18:00.714 --> 01:18:02.616
throw in your spongy tofu and
braise it and you're done.

01:18:02.683 --> 01:18:05.319
Farro grain bowl
with pressed tofu.

01:18:05.385 --> 01:18:06.954
Shanghai tofu scramble.

01:18:07.020 --> 01:18:10.457
- That actually is better
than I expected. Really good.

01:18:10.524 --> 01:18:11.658
Oh, that's also really good.

01:18:11.725 --> 01:18:12.459
Cut.

01:18:12.492 --> 01:18:13.961
Now we can eat the food.

01:18:13.994 --> 01:18:16.430
And if that wasn't enough
for me, one further prospect.

01:18:16.496 --> 01:18:18.332
- The biggest meat producers,

01:18:18.398 --> 01:18:20.300
they're literally making their
own plant-based products,

01:18:20.367 --> 01:18:23.003
but they're also
investing in startups

01:18:23.070 --> 01:18:24.671
that are doing cultivated meat,

01:18:24.738 --> 01:18:28.275
which is growing actual animal
meat directly from cells.

01:18:28.342 --> 01:18:31.211
These ways of producing
meat are far more efficient,

01:18:31.245 --> 01:18:34.481
and they are how meat will
be produced in the future.

01:18:34.882 --> 01:18:37.784
- [Mark] As we change our
views of nonhuman animals

01:18:37.818 --> 01:18:39.486
and change our practices,

01:18:39.520 --> 01:18:41.855
there are questions
and challenges ahead.

01:18:41.922 --> 01:18:45.025
What are the best ways to rotate
the grazing of wild animals

01:18:45.058 --> 01:18:47.227
on cropland to regenerate soil?

01:18:47.294 --> 01:18:49.029
How might we reduce the extent

01:18:49.062 --> 01:18:51.665
to which we inadvertently
harm nonhuman animals,

01:18:51.698 --> 01:18:53.834
even in non-exploitive
practices?

01:18:54.201 --> 01:18:56.670
What uses of animals
might still be justified

01:18:56.703 --> 01:18:58.906
even on non-speciesist grounds?

01:18:58.972 --> 01:19:01.141
If nature is ethically neutral,

01:19:01.175 --> 01:19:04.278
what should we do to improve
the wellbeing of wild animals?

01:19:04.344 --> 01:19:07.047
What is the ethically
optimal population level

01:19:07.080 --> 01:19:08.582
of sentient individuals?

01:19:08.649 --> 01:19:12.252
What about human-created
sentient life in the future?

01:19:12.286 --> 01:19:15.155
But thinking about all
of this brought me back

01:19:15.189 --> 01:19:17.424
again and again to
a single notion,

01:19:17.491 --> 01:19:20.827
that nonhuman animals
should be center stage

01:19:20.861 --> 01:19:22.763
in our global priorities,

01:19:22.796 --> 01:19:25.532
even if this feels as
counterintuitive to us

01:19:25.566 --> 01:19:28.168
as prioritizing
so-called lesser races

01:19:28.202 --> 01:19:30.404
must have felt to
earlier generations.

01:19:30.470 --> 01:19:34.041
And what about my own
life's priorities?

01:19:34.074 --> 01:19:37.077
What do I want to believe I
would have done with my life

01:19:37.110 --> 01:19:38.745
if I were a free person

01:19:38.779 --> 01:19:42.015
at a time of widely
accepted human slavery?

01:19:42.082 --> 01:19:44.585
Would I have just
put it out of my mind

01:19:44.618 --> 01:19:45.919
to focus on other things

01:19:45.953 --> 01:19:48.388
that were more
popular or convenient?

01:19:48.422 --> 01:19:50.557
Who would I want
to have been then?

01:19:50.591 --> 01:19:53.694
And who do I want to be now?

01:19:53.727 --> 01:19:57.397
And how do I want the
future to judge me?

01:19:58.599 --> 01:20:00.968
In joining the call
for animal liberation,

01:20:01.001 --> 01:20:03.136
can I have hope for its success?

01:20:03.170 --> 01:20:07.140
Asking this is really asking
one of the deepest questions

01:20:07.174 --> 01:20:09.076
about human nature.

01:20:09.142 --> 01:20:11.979
So I decided to end my
philosophical journey

01:20:12.045 --> 01:20:13.647
by meeting the author of a book

01:20:13.714 --> 01:20:17.117
that profoundly influenced
me, "The Blank Slate:

01:20:17.150 --> 01:20:19.586
the Modern Denial
of Human Nature."

01:20:19.920 --> 01:20:21.288
- Over the course of history,

01:20:21.321 --> 01:20:23.590
the circle of our
sympathy has expanded.

01:20:23.624 --> 01:20:26.093
Reason can help expand
our sense of sympathy.

01:20:26.159 --> 01:20:29.129
Starting from a pretty
narrow circle of sympathy,

01:20:29.162 --> 01:20:31.298
the ancient Greek city-states

01:20:31.331 --> 01:20:33.800
pretty much respected only
people in the same city-state.

01:20:33.867 --> 01:20:36.136
And it was considered a big
moral advance when they said,

01:20:36.170 --> 01:20:37.337
"Well, we're all Greeks."

01:20:37.371 --> 01:20:38.605
That doesn't necessarily extend

01:20:38.639 --> 01:20:40.340
to the barbarians over the hill.

01:20:40.374 --> 01:20:42.843
But that was next, because
why should you stop at Greeks?

01:20:42.910 --> 01:20:45.779
And if you extend it to
the so-called barbarians,

01:20:45.812 --> 01:20:49.616
why not extend it to
every member of your race?

01:20:49.650 --> 01:20:51.518
And why stop at your race?

01:20:51.552 --> 01:20:53.954
Why not extend it to
every human being?

01:20:54.021 --> 01:20:57.724
Why should you stop at
the the human species?

01:20:58.325 --> 01:21:01.929
- [Mark] If reason has helped
us press beyond our intuitions

01:21:01.962 --> 01:21:04.765
and expand our moral
circle in the past,

01:21:04.798 --> 01:21:07.534
perhaps it can do
so again today.

01:21:07.568 --> 01:21:10.838
I decided to visit
one final place:

01:21:10.871 --> 01:21:14.341
a place that offers hope
that our species can,

01:21:14.374 --> 01:21:17.845
indeed has, challenged
our deepest intuitions

01:21:17.878 --> 01:21:19.279
about the world,

01:21:19.313 --> 01:21:23.116
and, through reason,
expanded our understanding.

01:21:23.183 --> 01:21:24.952
- It's been my
great good fortune

01:21:24.985 --> 01:21:27.554
to have worked on the
NASA Voyager mission

01:21:27.588 --> 01:21:28.856
to the outer solar system.

01:21:28.922 --> 01:21:32.392
And now I'm operating the
Mars Perseverance rover.

01:21:32.459 --> 01:21:37.197
In 1610, Galileo turned
his telescope to Jupiter.

01:21:37.231 --> 01:21:40.501
He saw four little dots
that he realized were moons

01:21:40.534 --> 01:21:42.669
going around the planet Jupiter.

01:21:42.736 --> 01:21:47.140
The Voyager I and II
spacecraft turned those dots

01:21:47.174 --> 01:21:49.676
that Galileo saw into worlds.

01:21:49.743 --> 01:21:53.714
The innermost moon, Io, has
volcanoes going off constantly.

01:21:53.780 --> 01:21:56.817
But all of that is
our own backyard.

01:21:56.884 --> 01:21:58.485
The Sun, our star,

01:21:58.519 --> 01:22:01.855
is one of hundreds of billions
of stars in our galaxy,

01:22:01.889 --> 01:22:06.193
the galaxy being one of
hundreds of billions of galaxies

01:22:06.226 --> 01:22:07.694
in the universe.

01:22:07.761 --> 01:22:10.397
How often does science
show that we're wrong

01:22:10.430 --> 01:22:13.066
in what we think about
our place in the universe?

01:22:13.133 --> 01:22:17.538
Time and again, our intuitions
are shown to be too narrow,

01:22:17.571 --> 01:22:19.606
shallow, and self-serving.

01:22:21.575 --> 01:22:26.346
We have every reason
to fundamentally
rethink the intuition

01:22:26.380 --> 01:22:29.716
that we are so
much more important

01:22:29.750 --> 01:22:32.386
than all the other
species on our planet.

01:22:35.889 --> 01:22:38.158
- [Mark] Now I'm
just talking to you,

01:22:39.593 --> 01:22:43.063
as one member of the species
Homo sapiens to another:

01:22:44.298 --> 01:22:46.867
the fate of our kin

01:22:46.900 --> 01:22:48.969
is up to us.

01:22:49.002 --> 01:22:52.439
(energetic music)

01:23:21.335 --> 01:23:25.639
(energetic music continues)

01:23:54.168 --> 01:23:58.472
(energetic music continues)