00:00:12.345 --> 00:00:14.347
- I'm glad you went with that one.

00:00:14.347 --> 00:00:15.181
- [Kristen] Yeah?

00:00:15.181 --> 00:00:16.099
- Yeah.

00:00:16.099 --> 00:00:19.436
- Billy Graham was
pro-choice. Little known fact.

00:00:21.688 --> 00:00:25.108
- He was the man for all humanity.

00:00:27.235 --> 00:00:29.195
- What would your Bible
study friends think

00:00:29.195 --> 00:00:31.698
if they knew you were going
to a pro-choice march?

00:00:35.410 --> 00:00:38.038
- I don't know.
- Do they know?

00:00:38.038 --> 00:00:38.872
- No.

00:00:39.873 --> 00:00:42.125
I mean, it's not because I
didn't think about telling them.

00:00:42.125 --> 00:00:43.585
I just didn't think about it.

00:00:45.211 --> 00:00:46.755
- You didn't think to invite them?

00:00:47.964 --> 00:00:51.801
- No, I didn't think to tell 'em about it,

00:00:51.801 --> 00:00:53.887
which also includes inviting them.

00:00:53.887 --> 00:00:56.598
(both chuckling)

00:00:58.808 --> 00:01:01.061
- [Kristen] Are you still pro-life?

00:01:01.061 --> 00:01:03.396
- [Lori] In its purest definition?

00:01:03.396 --> 00:01:06.399
- [Kristen] Do you support
women having access to abortion?

00:01:07.275 --> 00:01:09.736
- Yes. Absolutely do.

00:01:11.905 --> 00:01:13.239
- [Kristen] And you've
always felt this way?

00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:14.240
- Always.

00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:17.952
- Even when we were in the
most conservative churches,

00:01:17.952 --> 00:01:20.747
voting Republican, voting
against the rights of women

00:01:20.747 --> 00:01:21.748
to have that right?

00:01:25.752 --> 00:01:28.588
- [Lori] You know, I
wasn't thinking one way

00:01:28.588 --> 00:01:30.757
or the other, to be perfectly honest.

00:01:30.757 --> 00:01:33.968
- But did you ever think, "I
wonder how these teachings

00:01:33.968 --> 00:01:35.595
are affecting my daughters?"

00:01:35.595 --> 00:01:37.263
- [Lori] No. Didn't even go there.

00:01:38.932 --> 00:01:41.434
I don't know that I ever
connected all the dots.

00:01:48.817 --> 00:01:50.026
- [Lori] Hello, Kristen.

00:01:52.112 --> 00:01:56.616
- I inherited my religion
and my politics from my mom,

00:01:59.536 --> 00:02:04.457
but I can't rest until I uncover
what's become of the faith

00:02:04.457 --> 00:02:07.043
and the community that we love.

00:02:12.799 --> 00:02:14.843
You became evangelical

00:02:14.843 --> 00:02:17.137
when you were pregnant with me, right?

00:02:17.137 --> 00:02:20.515
- [Lori] Yeah, I was
trying to find my way.

00:02:20.515 --> 00:02:24.227
- So I was just over three
months old when you dedicated me.

00:02:24.227 --> 00:02:26.062
- Mm-hm.
- Wow.

00:02:26.062 --> 00:02:28.148
And then two months
later you got baptized.

00:02:28.148 --> 00:02:29.315
- Mm-hm.

00:02:29.315 --> 00:02:31.484
I dedicated Kristen to our Lord Jesus

00:02:31.484 --> 00:02:33.486
as my responsibility to our Lord

00:02:33.486 --> 00:02:35.655
to raise her knowing and trusting him.

00:02:40.577 --> 00:02:41.536
- Scratch my table.

00:02:43.913 --> 00:02:46.666
Musician of the Month, girls choir.

00:02:47.917 --> 00:02:51.671
- Aww. I got an A in Bible.

00:02:53.256 --> 00:02:55.508
What was I like when I was young?

00:02:55.508 --> 00:02:57.260
- You asked a lot of questions.

00:02:57.260 --> 00:02:58.178
- I did,
- Yeah.

00:02:59.220 --> 00:03:00.722
And you used big words.

00:03:00.722 --> 00:03:02.348
- I did?
- Yeah.

00:03:02.348 --> 00:03:04.392
- Where did I learn the big words?

00:03:04.392 --> 00:03:08.438
- (sighs) Probably from me. (chuckles)

00:03:12.525 --> 00:03:14.194
- Welcome to Agape Land.

00:03:15.445 --> 00:03:18.740
♪ Take a peek it's quite unique, the music machine. ♪

00:03:19.032 --> 00:03:22.118
- [Kristen] My mom taught me
to love Jesus through music,

00:03:22.118 --> 00:03:24.245
♪ Welcome to Agape Land. ♪

00:03:24.537 --> 00:03:27.457
and I was happiest when we
were singing about his love.

00:03:34.714 --> 00:03:37.717
Unlike at home church always had answers.

00:03:37.717 --> 00:03:41.095
- First of all, we're going
to be saying 26 Bible verses.

00:03:41.095 --> 00:03:43.598
We learned a verse for each
letter of the alphabet.

00:03:43.598 --> 00:03:48.603
- [Children] C, children
obey your parents.

00:03:48.937 --> 00:03:55.568
D, depart from evil and do good.

00:03:59.072 --> 00:04:00.907
- [Kristen] As I got older, I was taught

00:04:00.907 --> 00:04:05.078
that being Christian meant
saving unborn babies.

00:04:05.078 --> 00:04:08.248
(crowd cheers)

00:04:08.248 --> 00:04:11.084
- You stood in this hot sun all day long

00:04:11.084 --> 00:04:12.460
for one reason only,

00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:15.964
and that's because you care
about those unborn babies.

00:04:15.964 --> 00:04:18.591
(crowd cheers)

00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:22.595
You are the salt of the earth.

00:04:24.430 --> 00:04:26.266
You are the hope of the future.

00:04:27.433 --> 00:04:32.355
And someday, folks, you
will get your victory.

00:04:32.647 --> 00:04:35.275
(crowd cheers)

00:04:37.026 --> 00:04:39.320
- [Kristen] When mom was
recruited to love Jesus-

00:04:39.320 --> 00:04:41.823
- "Even before you were
born, I prayed for you

00:04:41.823 --> 00:04:43.449
that you would grow up to be strong

00:04:43.449 --> 00:04:45.451
and full of joy in the Lord."

00:04:45.451 --> 00:04:46.286
You're gonna make cry.

00:04:46.286 --> 00:04:48.621
- [Kristen] She didn't know
that our faith was political,

00:04:49.539 --> 00:04:51.624
that we were being trained for battle.

00:04:53.626 --> 00:04:57.672
I was taught to be a good
girl and a faithful soldier.

00:04:57.672 --> 00:05:02.635
Trusting, recruiting, voting.

00:05:02.969 --> 00:05:05.471
- We have a threefold
primary responsibility.

00:05:05.471 --> 00:05:06.806
Number one, get people saved.

00:05:06.806 --> 00:05:08.141
Number two, get them baptized.

00:05:08.141 --> 00:05:10.643
Number three, get them registered to vote.

00:05:10.643 --> 00:05:12.478
- [Interviewer] What's
important to you in November?

00:05:12.478 --> 00:05:13.855
- Biblical principles.

00:05:13.855 --> 00:05:15.023
- Bible has all the answers.

00:05:15.023 --> 00:05:17.025
All we have to do is turn to it.

00:05:17.025 --> 00:05:19.819
- For those who've abandoned
hope, we'll restore hope

00:05:19.819 --> 00:05:22.363
and we'll welcome them into
a great national crusade

00:05:22.363 --> 00:05:23.823
to make America great-

00:05:23.823 --> 00:05:25.199
- [Trump] Great again.

00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.327
(crowd cheers)

00:05:27.327 --> 00:05:28.494
- [Kristen] As a young adult,

00:05:28.494 --> 00:05:30.830
my love for Jesus grew stronger.

00:05:31.831 --> 00:05:35.335
So it broke my heart when
I no longer recognized him

00:05:35.335 --> 00:05:37.545
in the community that
taught me who he was.

00:05:37.545 --> 00:05:40.048
- [Person] We are not giving up on you.

00:05:40.048 --> 00:05:42.342
- [Kristen] How could
we claim to be pro-life

00:05:43.676 --> 00:05:46.721
and deny so many people their humanity?

00:05:46.721 --> 00:05:50.892
♪ Jesus loves the little children ♪

00:05:52.935 --> 00:05:55.563
- [Kristen] Being pro-life was so tangled

00:05:55.563 --> 00:05:59.734
with my Christianity that
answering those questions

00:05:59.734 --> 00:06:02.028
became a total unraveling.

00:06:07.867 --> 00:06:11.371
If my understanding of
the pro-life movement

00:06:12.372 --> 00:06:13.873
was built on lies,

00:06:15.249 --> 00:06:18.920
what else about my faith wasn't true?

00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:20.546
- [Crowd] USA! USA!

00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:26.594
- [Kristen] I need to
understand this history,

00:06:27.553 --> 00:06:32.266
not just for myself, but for
my family and our country.

00:06:34.602 --> 00:06:37.397
This is not just a battle for the unborn.

00:06:39.899 --> 00:06:41.734
This is war.

00:06:56.416 --> 00:06:58.084
What would you say to the person

00:06:58.084 --> 00:07:01.421
who is just beginning to ask questions

00:07:01.421 --> 00:07:04.590
and they're learning about his
history for the first time,

00:07:04.590 --> 00:07:06.968
and they're terrified
to actually uncover it

00:07:06.968 --> 00:07:09.262
in terms of what that would
mean for their own life?

00:07:09.262 --> 00:07:11.973
- I wanna be clear that I'm
not questioning the sincerity

00:07:11.973 --> 00:07:16.769
of many evangelicals who
do genuinely find abortion

00:07:17.770 --> 00:07:20.189
reprehensible or even repugnant.

00:07:20.189 --> 00:07:22.775
We talked about evangelicalism
in America and I gave it...

00:07:22.775 --> 00:07:24.777
Yet I think it's important to recognize

00:07:24.777 --> 00:07:28.281
what the real origins of the
religious right look like.

00:07:28.281 --> 00:07:31.284
We all know the story of
the religious right was born

00:07:31.284 --> 00:07:35.788
out of a moral disgust
over the Supreme Court's

00:07:35.788 --> 00:07:40.334
Roe v Wade ruling of January 22nd, 1973.

00:07:40.334 --> 00:07:43.045
This is a story that's been
retold many, many times.

00:07:43.045 --> 00:07:48.050
It's a wonderful story and
it is also utter fiction.

00:07:53.014 --> 00:07:57.643
After the Brown v Board of
Education ruling of May of 1954,

00:07:57.643 --> 00:08:00.730
public schools begin to desegregate.

00:08:01.647 --> 00:08:03.816
Many evangelicals,
particularly in the South,

00:08:03.816 --> 00:08:07.195
but not exclusively, begin
to pull their children

00:08:07.195 --> 00:08:10.823
out of public education and enroll them

00:08:10.823 --> 00:08:12.825
in so-called segregation academies.

00:08:18.164 --> 00:08:19.665
At the same time,

00:08:19.665 --> 00:08:24.045
several church-related
segregation academies

00:08:24.045 --> 00:08:28.341
apply to the Internal Revenue
Service for tax exempt status.

00:08:29.175 --> 00:08:32.845
And on June, 1971, the
district court said,

00:08:32.845 --> 00:08:37.016
"Any institution that engages
in racial discrimination

00:08:37.016 --> 00:08:41.062
is not by definition, according
to the Civil Rights Act,

00:08:41.062 --> 00:08:42.688
a charitable institution.

00:08:44.565 --> 00:08:49.278
Therefore it has no claims
on tax exempt status."

00:08:49.278 --> 00:08:51.531
And that begins to raise an alarm

00:08:51.531 --> 00:08:54.367
among the leaders of the religious right,

00:08:54.367 --> 00:08:57.787
particularly those who had
their own segregation academies.

00:08:57.787 --> 00:08:59.705
Jerry Falwell, for example, believed

00:08:59.705 --> 00:09:02.208
that God had created the races separate

00:09:02.208 --> 00:09:04.210
and to try to bring them together

00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:06.212
was a violation of God's rule.

00:09:06.212 --> 00:09:08.798
He called the Civil Rights
movement, "civil wrongs."

00:09:12.969 --> 00:09:16.222
In fact, Jerry Falwell
preached his most famous sermon

00:09:16.222 --> 00:09:21.227
called "Ministers and
Marches" on March 21st, 1965.

00:09:21.394 --> 00:09:23.729
That was the same day
that Martin Luther King

00:09:23.729 --> 00:09:26.816
was leading the march from
Selma to Montgomery, Alabama.

00:09:28.234 --> 00:09:30.903
- [Kristen] Falwell
preached, "Does this present

00:09:30.903 --> 00:09:34.657
civil rights program
promote the love of God?

00:09:34.657 --> 00:09:37.785
I am fearful that all of the
rioting and demonstrating

00:09:37.785 --> 00:09:40.746
has produced a great amount of hate."

00:09:43.749 --> 00:09:44.750
I don't know if I told you,

00:09:44.750 --> 00:09:49.088
but I started my education
at a private Christian school

00:09:49.088 --> 00:09:52.091
that was founded, I think,
in the '50s in Orange County.

00:09:53.676 --> 00:09:56.429
Upon meeting you, I did
some research and thought,

00:09:56.429 --> 00:09:59.515
"Oh my God, was I at a
segregation academy?"

00:09:59.515 --> 00:10:00.474
- [Randall] Oh yeah.

00:10:01.601 --> 00:10:05.313
♪ The Lord is my shepherd ♪

00:10:05.313 --> 00:10:08.941
♪ I'll walk with Him always ♪

00:10:08.941 --> 00:10:10.151
- [Kristen] When I was four years old,

00:10:10.151 --> 00:10:11.944
I started Hawthorne Christian School.

00:10:11.944 --> 00:10:13.446
♪ Always ♪

00:10:13.446 --> 00:10:14.780
♪ Always ♪

00:10:14.780 --> 00:10:18.117
♪ I'll walk with Him always. ♪

00:10:18.117 --> 00:10:20.161
We learned reading and arithmetic,

00:10:20.161 --> 00:10:24.457
but we also learned a literal
interpretation of the Bible.

00:10:24.457 --> 00:10:26.792
I will come again,

00:10:26.792 --> 00:10:30.129
and receive you unto myself;

00:10:30.129 --> 00:10:32.298
that where I am,

00:10:32.298 --> 00:10:35.134
there ye may be also.

00:10:35.134 --> 00:10:38.804
John 14:1, 2 and 3

00:10:39.889 --> 00:10:42.141
- [Kristen] Every morning
our class pledged allegiance

00:10:42.141 --> 00:10:45.895
to the American flag, the
Christian flag, and the Bible.

00:10:45.895 --> 00:10:48.564
- [Group] I pledge allegiance
to the Christian flag-

00:10:48.564 --> 00:10:52.860
- [Children] Christian
flag and to the Savior

00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:55.363
for which it stands

00:10:55.363 --> 00:10:59.867
one Savior, crucified, risen,

00:10:59.867 --> 00:11:03.412
and cometh again, everlasting to all who believes.

00:11:03.412 --> 00:11:05.831
- We would not be where we are right now

00:11:05.831 --> 00:11:08.501
if we didn't have a couple
of generations of people

00:11:08.501 --> 00:11:10.670
who were homeschooled
and Christian schooled

00:11:10.670 --> 00:11:14.215
to be suspicious of
science and real history.

00:11:14.215 --> 00:11:17.677
- [Teacher] Christians, our
first priority is to the Bible

00:11:17.677 --> 00:11:18.844
and the commandments.

00:11:18.844 --> 00:11:20.680
Our second is to the Constitution.

00:11:21.555 --> 00:11:25.184
- The goal of raising kids
in a context like that is

00:11:25.184 --> 00:11:27.770
to ensure that every
part of their identity

00:11:27.770 --> 00:11:29.522
is wrapped up in that community.

00:11:29.522 --> 00:11:34.443
- I expect a massive
acceleration of this movement

00:11:34.443 --> 00:11:37.530
in about 25 to 30 years when those kids

00:11:37.530 --> 00:11:39.699
that are now in Christian schools

00:11:39.699 --> 00:11:43.536
have graduated and moved into
places of influence and power.

00:11:43.536 --> 00:11:46.455
That's when I expect to
see the real acceleration

00:11:46.455 --> 00:11:48.958
of this movement take place.

00:11:48.958 --> 00:11:53.045
I believe the children in the
Christian Schools of America

00:11:53.045 --> 00:11:55.297
are the army that's
going to take the future.

00:11:59.760 --> 00:12:00.970
- [Kristen] Are you comfortable sharing

00:12:00.970 --> 00:12:03.222
any of your involvement
with the pro-life movement?

00:12:03.222 --> 00:12:05.808
- I was involved in all kinds of aspects

00:12:05.808 --> 00:12:07.143
of the pro-life movement.

00:12:07.143 --> 00:12:10.229
I worked at crisis pregnancy centers.

00:12:10.229 --> 00:12:12.231
I worked to organize churches

00:12:12.231 --> 00:12:14.734
to be politically active
on the abortion issue.

00:12:15.568 --> 00:12:17.403
I participated in Operation Rescue

00:12:17.403 --> 00:12:19.447
and was arrested a few times.

00:12:19.447 --> 00:12:23.242
♪ Jesus loves the little children ♪

00:12:23.242 --> 00:12:25.578
♪ All the children of the world ♪

00:12:25.578 --> 00:12:29.415
- But I came to the conclusion
that the pro-life movement

00:12:29.415 --> 00:12:33.252
was more about controlling
women than saving unborn babies.

00:12:33.961 --> 00:12:36.505
I think if you associate with non-Christians,

00:12:36.505 --> 00:12:38.632
you’ll become more like them

00:12:38.632 --> 00:12:41.385
than, like, Christ-like as you should be.

00:12:41.927 --> 00:12:43.763
I think it’s better to be in an atmosphere where

00:12:43.763 --> 00:12:46.557
there’s people here that have the same beliefs as you

00:12:46.557 --> 00:12:50.352
and they’re all living for the same goal: to glorify God.

00:12:51.437 --> 00:12:55.524
- Christian education is
not merely public education

00:12:55.524 --> 00:12:57.109
with a Bible class.

00:12:57.109 --> 00:13:00.362
The purpose of Christian
education is to raise children

00:13:00.362 --> 00:13:02.364
who will then go out

00:13:02.364 --> 00:13:04.533
and help build the
kingdom of God on earth,

00:13:05.618 --> 00:13:07.787
as they understand the kingdom of God.

00:13:07.787 --> 00:13:09.371
- [Kristen] How do they
understand the kingdom of God?

00:13:09.371 --> 00:13:12.541
- They understand the kingdom
of God to be the application

00:13:12.541 --> 00:13:15.336
of biblical law to all
aspects of life and culture.

00:13:21.509 --> 00:13:23.844
Prior to the 1960s, you had

00:13:23.844 --> 00:13:27.515
this sort of broad based
education system that was infused

00:13:27.515 --> 00:13:29.809
with a version of Protestantism

00:13:29.809 --> 00:13:32.478
that was kind of just
thought to be American.

00:13:32.478 --> 00:13:34.480
Most people didn't think
of their public schools

00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.024
as Protestant, unless they were Catholic,

00:13:37.024 --> 00:13:39.902
and that's why they left
and made their own schools.

00:13:39.902 --> 00:13:43.489
But by the 1960s and 1970s,

00:13:43.489 --> 00:13:45.658
Protestants were starting to see changes

00:13:45.658 --> 00:13:49.036
in the public schools that
they were unhappy with.

00:13:49.036 --> 00:13:50.871
- There was a sense that
this larger culture,

00:13:50.871 --> 00:13:55.084
the broader world, was a
kind of cancerous influence

00:13:55.084 --> 00:13:56.669
on people of faith.

00:13:58.671 --> 00:14:01.841
- [Julie] Some of those changes
included, at some points,

00:14:01.841 --> 00:14:04.260
the introduction of sex education,

00:14:04.260 --> 00:14:07.596
changes in socialization
about gender roles,

00:14:07.596 --> 00:14:10.182
changes about racial integration.

00:14:10.182 --> 00:14:11.767
- White evangelicals begin to withdraw

00:14:11.767 --> 00:14:14.854
from that larger culture
and construct a subculture,

00:14:14.854 --> 00:14:19.024
which was this vast and
interlocking network of churches,

00:14:19.024 --> 00:14:22.444
bible camps, seminaries,
publishing houses,

00:14:22.444 --> 00:14:24.238
and Christian schools.

00:14:24.238 --> 00:14:27.575
♪ Has anybody here seen Grace? ♪

00:14:27.575 --> 00:14:31.453
♪ They say you can tell by
the expression on your face. ♪

00:14:31.453 --> 00:14:35.708
♪ When someone has been touched
by this extraordinary gal, ♪

00:14:35.708 --> 00:14:39.795
♪ Oh, has anybody here seen Grace? ♪

00:14:39.795 --> 00:14:44.800
♪ Oh, has anybody here seen Grace? ♪

00:14:51.223 --> 00:14:52.057
- Good morning.

00:14:54.059 --> 00:14:56.645
- [Kristen] One of my
fondest childhood memories

00:14:56.645 --> 00:14:59.148
is the daily drive to school with my dad.

00:15:01.734 --> 00:15:04.236
We'd drive by Mile Square
Park every morning,

00:15:04.236 --> 00:15:08.991
and my dad would shout "Lions
and tigers and bears, oh my!"

00:15:08.991 --> 00:15:10.326
This was the same park

00:15:10.326 --> 00:15:14.330
Ronald Reagan announced his
1984 reelection campaign.

00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:15.831
- [Announcer] Ladies and gentlemen,

00:15:15.831 --> 00:15:18.834
the President of the United
States and Mrs. Reagan!

00:15:18.834 --> 00:15:21.503
(crowd cheers)

00:15:23.505 --> 00:15:25.841
- When people need a little
sunshine in their lives

00:15:25.841 --> 00:15:28.761
that fills the soul of
this beautiful country,

00:15:28.761 --> 00:15:32.848
then I can assure them they'll
find it in Orange County.

00:15:36.769 --> 00:15:38.938
- [Kristen] My grandfather
moved from Chicago

00:15:38.938 --> 00:15:41.690
to Orange County in the late 1940s,

00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:43.525
because he joined the Marines.

00:15:44.485 --> 00:15:47.529
Like so many others settling
here from the Midwest

00:15:47.529 --> 00:15:50.115
and the South, my grandparents brought

00:15:50.115 --> 00:15:52.201
their conservative values with them.

00:15:57.289 --> 00:16:01.961
My mom was raised in a
Roman Catholic family.

00:16:01.961 --> 00:16:04.463
Her brother was an altar boy.

00:16:04.463 --> 00:16:07.466
They had the priest over
for supper on Sunday nights.

00:16:09.635 --> 00:16:11.387
My mom would bring her guitar to mass

00:16:11.387 --> 00:16:13.055
and play in front of the church.

00:16:14.223 --> 00:16:17.726
She wanted to be a nun when she was young.

00:16:18.686 --> 00:16:20.562
If you were Catholic, you were pro-life.

00:16:20.562 --> 00:16:23.232
Everybody had the sticker on their car...

00:16:23.232 --> 00:16:25.859
It was one in the same.

00:16:25.859 --> 00:16:30.155
- [Kristen] Mom and I were both
raised in the Orange County

00:16:30.155 --> 00:16:34.076
that birthed the Jesus
movement of the '60s and '70s,

00:16:34.994 --> 00:16:38.414
where religious revivals took
place in tents on beaches

00:16:38.414 --> 00:16:40.416
and in the streets.

00:16:40.416 --> 00:16:42.042
A lot of Catholics were converting

00:16:42.042 --> 00:16:44.003
to evangelicalism at that time.

00:16:45.671 --> 00:16:47.923
So because of how my mom was raised,

00:16:47.923 --> 00:16:51.677
it wasn't a reach for
her in the '80s and '90s

00:16:51.677 --> 00:16:54.346
when our evangelical
pastors used the Bible

00:16:54.346 --> 00:16:56.348
to defend unborn life.

00:16:57.683 --> 00:17:00.019
This booming megachurch culture formed

00:17:00.019 --> 00:17:03.022
within this existing military culture,

00:17:03.939 --> 00:17:07.234
which meant so many God-fearing people

00:17:07.234 --> 00:17:12.031
in Southern California were
primed to champion pro-life

00:17:12.031 --> 00:17:14.366
and pro-American beliefs.

00:17:14.366 --> 00:17:18.287
♪ Stand beside her and guide her ♪

00:17:18.287 --> 00:17:22.249
♪ Through the night with
the light from above ♪

00:17:22.249 --> 00:17:24.460
- We take you through spirituals,

00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:26.879
we take you through Civil War songs,

00:17:26.879 --> 00:17:28.881
and end in with patriotic.

00:17:28.881 --> 00:17:32.634
We mix these songs, just
as people have mixed up

00:17:32.634 --> 00:17:34.553
as they've come, and we no longer say,

00:17:34.553 --> 00:17:35.804
"Oh, you're a German,"

00:17:35.804 --> 00:17:38.599
because we forget about people's heritage,

00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:42.895
we become Americans, and we
hope you will enjoy our program.

00:17:44.897 --> 00:17:45.898
(congregation applauds)

00:17:45.898 --> 00:17:50.069
I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!

00:17:50.069 --> 00:17:52.654
In Dixie Land, I'll take my stand

00:17:52.654 --> 00:17:54.907
To live and die in Dixie.

00:17:54.907 --> 00:17:59.787
Away, away, away down south

00:17:59.787 --> 00:18:05.918
Away, away, away down south in Dixie.

00:18:08.170 --> 00:18:10.589
- [Kristen] Learning that
the pro-life movement

00:18:10.589 --> 00:18:14.093
was rooted in racism was shocking to me.

00:18:15.177 --> 00:18:18.764
I remember going to older
pastors and people of faith

00:18:18.764 --> 00:18:22.935
that I trusted, hoping to disprove it.

00:18:22.935 --> 00:18:25.521
The white pastors I spoke to

00:18:25.521 --> 00:18:27.523
were unfamiliar with the history

00:18:28.774 --> 00:18:30.943
and the black faith
leaders that I spoke to

00:18:30.943 --> 00:18:33.112
were absolutely familiar with it.

00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:38.867
But it's forcing me to see
my upbringing with new eyes.

00:18:38.867 --> 00:18:40.536
People keep telling me about you

00:18:40.536 --> 00:18:43.038
and how you're working
to challenge that racism

00:18:43.038 --> 00:18:45.332
within white Evangelicalism.

00:18:46.208 --> 00:18:49.294
Reading your book inspired
me to at least find my Bible.

00:18:49.294 --> 00:18:50.879
- Okay. (laughs)

00:18:50.879 --> 00:18:53.632
Let me just say there's
power in that thing.

00:18:53.632 --> 00:18:55.884
If you have your Bible,
you can turn with me.

00:18:55.884 --> 00:18:59.972
In the first chapter of
Genesis, we actually see

00:18:59.972 --> 00:19:03.225
what the kingdom of God looks like,

00:19:03.225 --> 00:19:06.478
and we see what the kingdom of God

00:19:06.478 --> 00:19:09.356
requires of its citizens.

00:19:09.356 --> 00:19:13.235
On the first page of the Bible,

00:19:13.235 --> 00:19:17.406
they cast power out to all humanity.

00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:24.746
They democratize power on
the first page of the Bible.

00:19:26.415 --> 00:19:30.002
Now the thing is though, we
live now in the wreckage,

00:19:30.002 --> 00:19:32.337
and I think that one
of the fundamental ways

00:19:32.337 --> 00:19:34.882
that our world is broken is the ways

00:19:34.882 --> 00:19:38.552
that we have created
hierarchies of human belonging.

00:19:41.263 --> 00:19:43.098
- [Kristen] Growing up, I was taught that,

00:19:43.098 --> 00:19:48.061
because of original sin,
there's just a certain amount

00:19:48.061 --> 00:19:51.106
of brokenness in the world that exists

00:19:51.106 --> 00:19:53.275
and that we're supposed to accept.

00:19:53.275 --> 00:19:58.197
- Yeah, actually, let me just
say about that mentality.

00:19:58.197 --> 00:19:59.865
Who does it benefit

00:19:59.865 --> 00:20:03.202
to actually have built into your theology

00:20:03.202 --> 00:20:08.040
that you should not care about
injustice and oppression?

00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:09.875
Who does it benefit?

00:20:09.875 --> 00:20:12.127
It benefits those who are oppressing.

00:20:15.756 --> 00:20:18.217
- [Narrator] Have you read
Jerry Falwell's autobiography,

00:20:18.217 --> 00:20:20.135
"Strength for the Journey"?

00:20:20.135 --> 00:20:22.221
Mel White wrote it.

00:20:22.221 --> 00:20:26.475
Pat Robertson's book,
"America's Date with Destiny"?

00:20:26.475 --> 00:20:29.228
He wrote that too. His
books have sold millions.

00:20:29.228 --> 00:20:30.562
He wrote a book for Billy Graham.

00:20:30.562 --> 00:20:32.814
He wrote speeches for Oli North.

00:20:32.814 --> 00:20:35.234
He was tight with the religious right.

00:20:39.071 --> 00:20:42.324
- [Kristen] When I read
Mel's book back in college,

00:20:42.324 --> 00:20:45.994
I didn't understand the
scope of his influence.

00:20:45.994 --> 00:20:47.955
In many ways, he was more powerful

00:20:47.955 --> 00:20:49.957
than the leaders of the religious right.

00:20:51.291 --> 00:20:53.418
And he's the only remaining person

00:20:53.418 --> 00:20:56.255
who held their deepest trust and secrets.

00:20:56.255 --> 00:20:57.506
- Hello?

00:20:57.506 --> 00:21:00.592
- [Kristen] Who can account
for what really happened.

00:21:00.592 --> 00:21:01.927
- [Mel] You wanna be impressed?

00:21:01.927 --> 00:21:03.095
- [Kristen] Mm-hm.

00:21:03.095 --> 00:21:06.640
- (chuckles) Nobody
else would be impressed.

00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:11.645
These are all books I have
written. I've written 33 books.

00:21:12.521 --> 00:21:13.981
This is Jerry Falwell's book,

00:21:13.981 --> 00:21:16.108
"If I Should Die Before I Wake."

00:21:16.108 --> 00:21:19.361
You know, when you're out to
save the world, you can lie.

00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:24.199
This is my film crew like you have.

00:21:24.199 --> 00:21:25.826
- [Filming Crew Member]
Standby to roll one, roll one.

00:21:25.826 --> 00:21:29.788
- 4, 3, 2, 1.

00:21:29.788 --> 00:21:31.873
- [Announcer] The faith
partners and friends

00:21:31.873 --> 00:21:35.127
present Jerry Falwell
and the Old Time Gospel.

00:21:35.127 --> 00:21:39.339
- These men served Jesus,
and in my mind and heart,

00:21:39.339 --> 00:21:41.466
I'd always been called to serve Jesus.

00:21:41.466 --> 00:21:44.177
I mean, I felt like I was a
part of something important.

00:21:44.177 --> 00:21:46.054
- I have said that I believe the 1980s

00:21:46.054 --> 00:21:47.681
to be a decade of destiny.

00:21:47.681 --> 00:21:50.809
If America survived this decade,

00:21:50.809 --> 00:21:53.395
will be because God intervened.

00:21:53.395 --> 00:21:55.856
- [Mel] He was just a
southern Baptist preacher

00:21:55.856 --> 00:21:59.067
in a tiny little town in Virginia

00:21:59.067 --> 00:22:04.072
who decided to become a minister,
bought a bottling company,

00:22:04.197 --> 00:22:05.991
went door to door to door to door,

00:22:07.075 --> 00:22:09.578
and had 500 in his first
congregation meeting,

00:22:09.578 --> 00:22:11.872
and his wife played the piano.

00:22:11.872 --> 00:22:13.665
He was the first to experiment with radio.

00:22:13.665 --> 00:22:15.751
- The Old Time Gospel Hour.

00:22:15.751 --> 00:22:18.253
- [Mel] He was the first to
experiment with television.

00:22:18.253 --> 00:22:19.880
- But if you want to send Jerry Falwell

00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.341
on national television
down the water slide,

00:22:22.341 --> 00:22:25.594
you know, fully dressed,
you call, make the pledge,

00:22:25.594 --> 00:22:27.846
join the resurrection-
- I'm in.

00:22:27.846 --> 00:22:29.723
- I'm on record.
- I'll write a check today.

00:22:29.723 --> 00:22:31.767
- You can really enjoy being with somebody

00:22:31.767 --> 00:22:33.560
who is really awful.

00:22:33.560 --> 00:22:35.854
I mean, if they're fun.

00:22:35.854 --> 00:22:39.941
- $22 million, was it worth it?

00:22:39.941 --> 00:22:40.776
I don't know.

00:22:47.616 --> 00:22:49.618
- If you say, what's the
influence of Falwell?

00:22:49.618 --> 00:22:52.954
He started a ball rolling
on working anybody

00:22:52.954 --> 00:22:54.456
to get what we want.

00:22:54.456 --> 00:22:55.916
- And somewhere down the road,

00:22:55.916 --> 00:22:58.293
the name of the game is persuasion.

00:22:58.293 --> 00:23:02.381
- The Reverend Jerry Falwell
appears to have scared

00:23:02.381 --> 00:23:05.300
half the nation's liberals half to death.

00:23:05.300 --> 00:23:08.303
- I believe in freedom of choice also,

00:23:08.303 --> 00:23:09.971
but I believe you ought to make the choice

00:23:09.971 --> 00:23:12.766
before you go to bed and can commit sin.

00:23:12.766 --> 00:23:14.559
- [Mel] Falwell thought-
the country is lost,

00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:17.062
you gotta save it, in theological terms.

00:23:20.482 --> 00:23:21.983
Here's Francis Schaeffer.

00:23:21.983 --> 00:23:22.943
- [Kristen] Where was this picture

00:23:22.943 --> 00:23:24.653
of you and Francis Schaeffer taken?

00:23:26.321 --> 00:23:27.489
- Somewhere in Switzerland?

00:23:27.489 --> 00:23:29.324
He was one of the guys
who really got us off

00:23:29.324 --> 00:23:31.493
on this bad track, you know?

00:23:31.493 --> 00:23:35.497
If there is no place for disobeying the government,

00:23:36.623 --> 00:23:40.836
that government has been put in the place
of the living God.

00:23:42.003 --> 00:23:47.884
In such a case, the government has been made
a false God.

00:23:47.884 --> 00:23:51.388
- My father was a respected
evangelical leader.

00:23:53.223 --> 00:23:54.724
Having been this obscure pastor

00:23:54.724 --> 00:23:56.309
who then became a kind of an intellectual

00:23:56.309 --> 00:23:57.394
who became a writer.

00:23:57.394 --> 00:23:59.396
He was this countercultural
guy on the fringe.

00:24:00.355 --> 00:24:03.692
And winds up being remembered as
the father of the religious right.

00:24:04.276 --> 00:24:07.028
- Liberal press would try to
keep conservative Christians,

00:24:07.028 --> 00:24:09.114
if you will, or evangelicals
outta political life.

00:24:09.114 --> 00:24:11.366
And there's this great
pressure to make fun of you

00:24:11.366 --> 00:24:13.243
when you get, quote, "in politics."

00:24:13.243 --> 00:24:14.369
What do you say to them?

00:24:14.369 --> 00:24:15.412
- Well, they're wrong.

00:24:15.412 --> 00:24:19.124
- Okay (laughs) That's that sounds...

00:24:19.124 --> 00:24:22.043
But Christians should do what?

00:24:22.043 --> 00:24:25.422
Run for office? Vote,
register, get involved?

00:24:25.422 --> 00:24:26.256
What ought they to do?

00:24:26.256 --> 00:24:28.800
- Well, we should use
every political means,

00:24:28.800 --> 00:24:34.222
that means electing people who
will carry out these views.

00:24:34.222 --> 00:24:37.309
And in the courts, we ought to
have a good Christian lawyers

00:24:37.309 --> 00:24:39.895
carry these things right
up into the Supreme Court

00:24:39.895 --> 00:24:42.063
and challenge all these things because-

00:24:42.063 --> 00:24:42.898
- And all of a sudden, you know,

00:24:42.898 --> 00:24:44.316
he's sitting down across presidents,

00:24:44.316 --> 00:24:45.817
and he's staying in the Lincoln bedroom

00:24:45.817 --> 00:24:47.110
in the Ford White House.

00:24:49.446 --> 00:24:53.074
My parents had an
outsized impact on people.

00:24:53.074 --> 00:24:56.161
- What a delight to have. Dr.
Francis Schaeffer here today

00:24:56.161 --> 00:24:59.331
with 4,000 people participating here

00:24:59.331 --> 00:25:02.501
and a few million out there
watching by television.

00:25:02.501 --> 00:25:04.920
From the Swiss Alps, Dr. Schaeffer.

00:25:06.213 --> 00:25:08.924
- I began meeting with
people that I respected,

00:25:08.924 --> 00:25:12.219
like Dr. Francis Schaeffer
and others to ask,

00:25:12.219 --> 00:25:13.345
how can I get involved?

00:25:13.345 --> 00:25:16.014
You know, I preached against involvement.

00:25:16.014 --> 00:25:18.391
- Except that, just to understand

00:25:18.391 --> 00:25:20.352
where they were in those times,

00:25:20.352 --> 00:25:24.272
Evangelicals were not
involved in politics.

00:25:24.272 --> 00:25:27.275
- I was taught in Bible college:

00:25:27.275 --> 00:25:29.110
religion and politics don't mix.

00:25:30.278 --> 00:25:32.781
And the preacher of the
gospel should not comment on,

00:25:32.781 --> 00:25:37.410
get involved in the political
processes in any way.

00:25:37.410 --> 00:25:38.578
- Schaeffer came along

00:25:38.578 --> 00:25:41.581
and said to Falwell, "That's nonsense.

00:25:41.581 --> 00:25:43.917
Politics is where we change things."

00:25:46.962 --> 00:25:48.964
- [Kristen] It sounds like
Jerry Falwell believed

00:25:48.964 --> 00:25:51.007
that there was biblical grounds

00:25:51.007 --> 00:25:53.510
for starting a segregation academy

00:25:53.510 --> 00:25:55.512
and then defending it against the IRS.

00:25:55.512 --> 00:25:56.346
- Right.

00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:01.142
As this face off between the IRS

00:26:01.142 --> 00:26:03.812
and the segregation
academies is unfolding,

00:26:03.812 --> 00:26:07.315
Jerry Falwell became angered
and energized over the issue

00:26:07.315 --> 00:26:10.235
of tax exempt status for
Christian institutions.

00:26:15.407 --> 00:26:18.910
You begin to hear this
rhetoric that becomes essential

00:26:18.910 --> 00:26:21.162
to the success of the religious right,

00:26:21.162 --> 00:26:23.331
and it's the rhetoric of victimization.

00:26:23.331 --> 00:26:25.500
- While the Christian bashing is going on

00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:27.419
in the media right now,
it's the time for believers

00:26:27.419 --> 00:26:28.962
to stand up and be counted.

00:26:28.962 --> 00:26:32.841
- "We are under attack. Our
institutions are under attack."

00:26:32.841 --> 00:26:35.927
Failing to acknowledge those institutions

00:26:35.927 --> 00:26:39.097
are subsidized by the public.

00:26:39.097 --> 00:26:40.765
- The government didn't
come in with guns and say,

00:26:40.765 --> 00:26:42.350
"You have to allow Black people here."

00:26:42.350 --> 00:26:44.185
It just said, "You're not
gonna have tax exempt status,

00:26:44.185 --> 00:26:45.353
you're not gonna have access

00:26:45.353 --> 00:26:48.189
to federal student aid if you continue

00:26:48.189 --> 00:26:51.026
to discriminate on the basis of race."

00:26:51.026 --> 00:26:53.445
- Jerry Falwell and
others are very careful

00:26:53.445 --> 00:26:57.157
to frame the controversy in
terms of religious freedom.

00:26:57.157 --> 00:27:01.786
- We are talking about
Christianizing America.

00:27:01.786 --> 00:27:04.456
We are talking about spreading the gospel

00:27:04.456 --> 00:27:06.207
in a political context,

00:27:06.207 --> 00:27:09.377
and therefore you have to be able

00:27:09.377 --> 00:27:13.965
to put things in simplistic terms.

00:27:13.965 --> 00:27:18.845
Ultimately, everything can be
reduced to right and wrong.

00:27:18.845 --> 00:27:19.804
Everything.

00:27:21.014 --> 00:27:25.101
- Paul Weyrich and his friends

00:27:26.227 --> 00:27:29.397
were Republican operatives,

00:27:29.397 --> 00:27:32.776
consultants, who knew that the Republicans

00:27:32.776 --> 00:27:35.028
had to gain more power,

00:27:35.028 --> 00:27:38.114
and they knew that the
Republicans had to have causes

00:27:38.114 --> 00:27:39.449
that people would vote for.

00:27:40.909 --> 00:27:44.496
- [Randall] Weyrich had been
trying to enlist evangelicals

00:27:44.496 --> 00:27:48.166
as a voting block, because
he recognized early on

00:27:48.166 --> 00:27:52.420
the electoral potential
of the Evangelical vote.

00:27:52.420 --> 00:27:56.049
- The key to any kind
of political impact is

00:27:56.049 --> 00:27:58.593
to get these people united.

00:27:58.593 --> 00:28:00.929
- He tried several issues over the years.

00:28:00.929 --> 00:28:03.431
He tried the school prayer
issue, which was a huge issue.

00:28:03.431 --> 00:28:05.558
He tried the pornography issue.

00:28:05.558 --> 00:28:07.686
He tried women's rights issue.

00:28:07.686 --> 00:28:08.937
None of that worked.

00:28:10.772 --> 00:28:12.899
- And then a pivotal moment came from me,

00:28:12.899 --> 00:28:14.234
when an old family friend,

00:28:14.234 --> 00:28:15.985
Dr. C. Everett Coop came up to me.

00:28:17.070 --> 00:28:18.571
C. Everett Coop was the surgeon-in-chief

00:28:18.571 --> 00:28:19.948
of Philadelphia Children's Hospital.

00:28:19.948 --> 00:28:24.828
So this wasn't some pastor.
This was a science guy.

00:28:24.828 --> 00:28:26.162
He said, "Look at your babies

00:28:26.162 --> 00:28:28.248
and how would you like it
if Jessica had been aborted,” and you know,

00:28:28.248 --> 00:28:29.624
“abortions, murder, do something about it.”

00:28:29.624 --> 00:28:31.126
And he said, "Look, you've made a series

00:28:31.126 --> 00:28:32.794
that we took to churches and venues

00:28:32.794 --> 00:28:34.379
and stadiums and so forth.

00:28:34.379 --> 00:28:36.214
Do your whole next series on it."

00:28:36.214 --> 00:28:38.216
So I go to my dad and I asked him,

00:28:38.216 --> 00:28:39.634
"Do you want to do another series?"

00:28:39.634 --> 00:28:41.970
He says, "Well, this isn't our issue."

00:28:41.970 --> 00:28:44.389
But Dr. Coop, he was opening the Bible

00:28:44.389 --> 00:28:46.099
and saying, "look at this passage.

00:28:46.099 --> 00:28:48.143
Look at this passage.
Look at this passage."

00:28:48.143 --> 00:28:51.813
And I was convinced that
abortion was a great evil.

00:28:54.399 --> 00:28:58.611
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

00:28:58.611 --> 00:29:03.575
♪ Happy birthday, dear Kristen ♪

00:29:06.286 --> 00:29:08.163
(group applauding)

00:29:08.163 --> 00:29:12.167
- [Kristen] The week of my
18th birthday, I found out

00:29:12.167 --> 00:29:15.628
that the dad who raised me
was not my biological father.

00:29:17.338 --> 00:29:19.507
My mom told me that her
boyfriend at the time

00:29:19.507 --> 00:29:21.259
gave her money for an abortion.

00:29:22.677 --> 00:29:23.762
I was shattered.

00:29:24.763 --> 00:29:27.766
I felt like I didn't
belong in my own family.

00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:33.396
And at the same time, I was so
consumed with being pro-life

00:29:33.396 --> 00:29:35.774
that it overshadowed the betrayal

00:29:35.774 --> 00:29:38.401
of not knowing who my dad was.

00:29:39.152 --> 00:29:41.988
Instead, I thought my mom was a warrior.

00:29:42.906 --> 00:29:46.284
She was so brave. She chose life.

00:29:46.284 --> 00:29:48.161
She chose my life.

00:29:48.161 --> 00:29:49.829
- [Rehnquist] I, George
Walker Bush do solemnly swear.

00:29:49.829 --> 00:29:52.332
- I, George Walker Bush do solemnly swear.

00:29:52.332 --> 00:29:54.417
- And that was enough for me at the time.

00:29:55.794 --> 00:29:58.129
The political was now personal.

00:29:58.129 --> 00:30:01.341
So I joyfully voted for the
man who was saving babies

00:30:01.341 --> 00:30:03.802
and who would appoint
Supreme Court justices

00:30:03.802 --> 00:30:06.262
to overturn Roe v Wade.

00:30:11.851 --> 00:30:13.436
There's a conversation
we haven't really had

00:30:13.436 --> 00:30:15.438
that I've been curious to have.

00:30:15.438 --> 00:30:17.273
- [Lori] What's that, honey?

00:30:17.273 --> 00:30:18.107
- Well,

00:30:23.154 --> 00:30:26.908
it's about what I do and
don't believe anymore.

00:30:26.908 --> 00:30:30.203
And how you might feel about that.

00:30:33.456 --> 00:30:38.211
- That's between you and
your higher power or God

00:30:38.211 --> 00:30:42.799
or whomever you choose
to think about or not.

00:30:43.883 --> 00:30:46.302
- I'm curious, because you borne me

00:30:46.302 --> 00:30:48.304
into this version of faith.

00:30:48.304 --> 00:30:50.723
I didn't really choose it.

00:30:50.723 --> 00:30:52.892
- Yeah, same way. I didn't
choose being Catholic.

00:30:52.892 --> 00:30:57.564
- Right, but you did
choose to be evangelical.

00:30:58.731 --> 00:31:01.150
Do you feel like you were
looking for something

00:31:01.150 --> 00:31:03.736
that that would give you?

00:31:06.114 --> 00:31:07.740
- No, I don't think that was it.

00:31:09.951 --> 00:31:11.619
I wasn't really looking for something.

00:31:11.619 --> 00:31:14.247
I was belonging to something.

00:31:14.247 --> 00:31:16.875
- Do you think if I don't
believe the same things

00:31:16.875 --> 00:31:20.044
that I was taught about
Jesus and salvation,

00:31:20.044 --> 00:31:21.254
that I might go to hell?

00:31:23.548 --> 00:31:24.799
- I don't know.

00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:27.594
I'd give that some more
thought, to be perfectly honest.

00:31:32.098 --> 00:31:35.685
- [Kristen] I thought Christians
had always been pro-life.

00:31:35.685 --> 00:31:38.855
And the biggest shock
to me was discovering

00:31:38.855 --> 00:31:40.189
that they weren't.

00:31:40.189 --> 00:31:42.609
- Listen, you know, you can disagree

00:31:42.609 --> 00:31:44.110
with everything I would believe,

00:31:44.110 --> 00:31:46.154
but I promise you this is true.

00:31:46.154 --> 00:31:49.365
Until very recently, this
was not part of your faith.

00:32:02.587 --> 00:32:03.630
When we went around

00:32:03.630 --> 00:32:05.798
talking people into taking
a stand on abortion,

00:32:05.798 --> 00:32:07.800
we had several fights.

00:32:07.800 --> 00:32:10.553
We sat down with Billy
Graham three times in person.

00:32:10.553 --> 00:32:11.387
Billy was saying,

00:32:11.387 --> 00:32:13.556
"I don't believe abortion
should be illegal.

00:32:13.556 --> 00:32:15.808
We're not taking rights away from women.

00:32:15.808 --> 00:32:17.560
Why would we do that?"

00:32:17.560 --> 00:32:20.813
He says, "Are you telling me
that if I make this an issue

00:32:20.813 --> 00:32:24.108
at my evangelistic rallies,
more people will accept Jesus?

00:32:24.108 --> 00:32:26.903
What about the women
who disagree with me?"

00:32:26.903 --> 00:32:30.990
His priority was saving people
for Jesus, for the church,

00:32:30.990 --> 00:32:32.158
getting them out of hell.

00:32:32.158 --> 00:32:33.910
That was the reaction we got.

00:32:33.910 --> 00:32:36.079
Abortion is not an issue
in the evangelical world

00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:36.913
at that time.

00:32:36.913 --> 00:32:38.831
They think abortion should be legalized.

00:32:40.249 --> 00:32:42.961
- In 1971, the Southern Baptist Convention

00:32:42.961 --> 00:32:44.587
passed a resolution calling

00:32:44.587 --> 00:32:47.298
for the legalization of abortion,

00:32:47.298 --> 00:32:51.344
a resolution they reaffirmed in 1974,

00:32:51.344 --> 00:32:53.846
and again in 1976.

00:32:53.846 --> 00:32:56.516
Jerry Falwell, by his own admission,

00:32:56.516 --> 00:33:00.478
did not preach his first
anti-abortion sermon

00:33:00.478 --> 00:33:03.982
until February of 1978,

00:33:03.982 --> 00:33:07.110
more than five years after
the Roe v Wade decision.

00:33:07.110 --> 00:33:09.988
- Abortion is not a Roman Catholic issue.

00:33:09.988 --> 00:33:13.199
It is a moral issue. It
is a theological issue.

00:33:14.701 --> 00:33:16.119
It is a human rights issue.

00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:19.872
An issue that concerns the
human rights of unborn babies

00:33:19.872 --> 00:33:24.877
who by the hundreds of
thousands are being murdered.

00:33:42.979 --> 00:33:47.650
- In advance of the
1978 midterm elections,

00:33:48.735 --> 00:33:50.486
Paul Weyrich said, "There
was a conference call

00:33:50.486 --> 00:33:52.905
among several of us and we began to say,

00:33:52.905 --> 00:33:56.075
'Look, we have the makings
here of a political movement.

00:33:56.075 --> 00:33:58.494
What other issues can we talk about?'

00:33:58.494 --> 00:34:00.246
And several people made suggestions.

00:34:00.246 --> 00:34:03.166
And finally, a voice on the
end of one of the lines said,

00:34:03.166 --> 00:34:04.417
'How about abortion?'"

00:34:05.585 --> 00:34:07.003
So Weyrich goes to the head

00:34:07.003 --> 00:34:09.338
of the Republican National
Committee looking for help

00:34:09.338 --> 00:34:12.425
to try to mobilize evangelical voters.

00:34:12.425 --> 00:34:14.510
And the head of the RNC
looks at him saying,

00:34:14.510 --> 00:34:17.263
"Who," this is according to Weyrich,

00:34:17.263 --> 00:34:18.097
"Who are these people?

00:34:18.097 --> 00:34:20.349
Why should we care about these people?"

00:34:20.349 --> 00:34:25.354
And so Weyrich pledges to
go out and, in his words,

00:34:25.772 --> 00:34:29.192
to elect some pretty improbable
people to the Senate.

00:34:29.192 --> 00:34:31.611
- Good evening and
welcome to NBC's coverage

00:34:31.611 --> 00:34:33.529
of the 1978 elections.

00:34:33.529 --> 00:34:36.824
- So he concentrates on
four Senate campaigns,

00:34:36.824 --> 00:34:39.035
one in New Hampshire, one in Iowa,

00:34:39.035 --> 00:34:41.537
and then two in Minnesota.

00:34:41.537 --> 00:34:44.207
And in the final weekend of that campaign,

00:34:44.207 --> 00:34:49.045
pro-lifers, Roman Catholics,
leaflet church parking lots.

00:34:51.339 --> 00:34:54.634
And two days later, four
Democratic candidates

00:34:54.634 --> 00:34:59.180
for the Senate lose to
so-called pro-life Republicans.

00:34:59.180 --> 00:35:02.642
- Then two things happen.

00:35:02.642 --> 00:35:05.645
Jack Kemp in Washington
introduced us one night

00:35:05.645 --> 00:35:07.313
at the Republican Club.

00:35:07.313 --> 00:35:09.941
He got together 50
senators and congressmen.

00:35:09.941 --> 00:35:11.359
The political people realized

00:35:11.359 --> 00:35:14.028
the same thing the
evangelical leaders did.

00:35:14.028 --> 00:35:18.282
This is dynamite, and if
we can capture this cause,

00:35:18.282 --> 00:35:19.283
we'll own it.

00:35:19.283 --> 00:35:23.121
And so we began to turn it
into a litmus test issue

00:35:23.121 --> 00:35:24.038
where you're in or out.

00:35:24.038 --> 00:35:27.125
And if you're out, we
are gonna shut you down.

00:35:28.334 --> 00:35:30.920
From then on our seminars were picketed

00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:32.839
by the National Organization of Women

00:35:32.839 --> 00:35:36.092
and having a bunch of
people screaming at us

00:35:36.092 --> 00:35:39.303
as evangelical Christians came
in, started to energize them.

00:35:39.303 --> 00:35:40.346
Oh, this is a fight.

00:35:41.889 --> 00:35:43.724
Local TV stations started showing up

00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:46.060
and we began to fill venues.

00:35:46.936 --> 00:35:50.064
And then Jerry Falwell took
two things at the same time,

00:35:50.064 --> 00:35:52.817
fighting gay rights and abortion.

00:35:52.817 --> 00:35:55.570
- Moral Majority is not
a religious organization.

00:35:55.570 --> 00:35:57.655
The fact is that it's political.

00:35:57.655 --> 00:35:59.073
It's a very political organization.

00:35:59.073 --> 00:36:00.783
And one's membership

00:36:00.783 --> 00:36:02.743
is based upon citizenship in this country

00:36:02.743 --> 00:36:06.956
and a commitment to a pro-life,
pro-traditional family,

00:36:06.956 --> 00:36:10.126
pro-moral and pro-American position.

00:36:10.126 --> 00:36:12.920
- And all of a sudden with Falwell-

00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:15.423
- We have a threefold
primary responsibility.

00:36:15.423 --> 00:36:16.757
Number one, get people saved.

00:36:16.757 --> 00:36:18.092
Number two, get them baptized.

00:36:18.092 --> 00:36:20.136
Number three, get them registered to vote.

00:36:20.136 --> 00:36:23.431
- It became one of the three
tenets of fundamentalism,

00:36:23.431 --> 00:36:25.933
and he started a campaign across America

00:36:25.933 --> 00:36:28.686
on State House steps
with a choir and flags

00:36:28.686 --> 00:36:31.606
saying, "We gotta bring
America back to God."

00:36:31.606 --> 00:36:36.027
- To the Congress, and to any
and all forces on the earth

00:36:36.027 --> 00:36:37.778
above it and below it,

00:36:37.778 --> 00:36:41.365
that long after you have
been buried and forgotten,

00:36:41.365 --> 00:36:45.661
the Church of the Living God
will march on, triumphant.

00:36:49.415 --> 00:36:52.335
- So from the leaders, you had efforts

00:36:52.335 --> 00:36:54.253
to find hot button issues

00:36:54.253 --> 00:36:56.589
that would tap into widespread support

00:36:56.589 --> 00:36:58.007
among religious Americans.

00:36:59.467 --> 00:37:02.345
But from the perspective
of people in the pews,

00:37:02.345 --> 00:37:05.056
they were going to Wednesday
night church services

00:37:05.056 --> 00:37:07.642
and getting organized to
be involved in politics.

00:37:07.642 --> 00:37:12.063
- We've got to raise up an army
of men and women in America.

00:37:13.189 --> 00:37:16.359
We'll call this nation back to
moral sanity and sensibility.

00:37:17.485 --> 00:37:19.195
I call that the moral majority.

00:37:27.620 --> 00:37:29.872
- We have been counseling
with some of the pastors

00:37:29.872 --> 00:37:33.376
on how the mechanics of voter registration

00:37:33.376 --> 00:37:35.294
and how, whether or not they
can do it in their church

00:37:35.294 --> 00:37:36.629
or if they can't, how they can do it.

00:37:36.629 --> 00:37:38.673
The state laws vary from state to state.

00:37:38.673 --> 00:37:42.218
Of course, the way to reach
them is through the churches.

00:37:42.218 --> 00:37:43.552
We, of course, are interested.

00:37:43.552 --> 00:37:45.179
- Weyrich had large goals

00:37:45.179 --> 00:37:50.184
about trying to organize American voters

00:37:50.977 --> 00:37:54.397
to shore up a conservatism
that he understood

00:37:54.397 --> 00:37:58.276
as rooted in the
Judeo-Christian tradition.

00:37:58.276 --> 00:38:01.237
And part of that included
the abortion issue.

00:38:01.237 --> 00:38:04.115
Part of that included a
particular view of freedom.

00:38:04.115 --> 00:38:05.658
Part of that's rooted in the idea

00:38:05.658 --> 00:38:08.494
that government is somehow apart from us.

00:38:08.494 --> 00:38:11.247
- How many of our Christians have

00:38:11.247 --> 00:38:15.251
what I call the goo-goo
syndrome, good government?

00:38:15.251 --> 00:38:17.253
They want everybody to vote.

00:38:17.878 --> 00:38:19.922
I don't want everybody to vote.

00:38:19.922 --> 00:38:22.967
Elections are not won
by a majority of people,

00:38:22.967 --> 00:38:25.303
they never have been from
the beginning of our country,

00:38:25.303 --> 00:38:26.887
and they are not now.

00:38:26.887 --> 00:38:28.973
As a matter of fact, our
leverage in the elections

00:38:28.973 --> 00:38:32.393
quite candidly goes up as the
voting populace goes down.

00:38:32.393 --> 00:38:35.730
(congregation applauds)

00:38:36.897 --> 00:38:40.151
- Okay, Lord, let this
cake come out in one piece.

00:38:44.613 --> 00:38:45.448
- [Kristen] Oh no!

00:38:47.575 --> 00:38:50.119
- Well we'll have to fix that piece.

00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:51.078
- Get me a knife, please.

00:38:51.078 --> 00:38:52.538
- [Kristen] How do we fix it?

00:38:54.040 --> 00:38:55.624
- I'll show you.

00:38:55.624 --> 00:38:56.792
- [Kristen] You said you remembered

00:38:56.792 --> 00:38:59.045
when Christianity wasn't like this,

00:38:59.045 --> 00:39:01.047
so you remained within it,

00:39:01.047 --> 00:39:01.881
Why?

00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:05.259
- I didn't know enough about doctrine.

00:39:05.259 --> 00:39:07.970
I didn't know enough about
scripture at that time.

00:39:07.970 --> 00:39:09.430
And I certainly didn't know

00:39:09.430 --> 00:39:11.682
whose teachings were right and wrong

00:39:11.682 --> 00:39:17.313
or edgy or had a hidden agenda.

00:39:17.980 --> 00:39:19.106
I didn't know any of that.

00:39:19.106 --> 00:39:20.941
- [Kristen] So you were
just trusting the leaders

00:39:20.941 --> 00:39:22.401
at the churches that you were at?

00:39:22.401 --> 00:39:24.570
- Yeah.
- Yeah.

00:39:24.570 --> 00:39:25.654
And why would you not?

00:39:29.241 --> 00:39:30.242
- Yeah.

00:39:30.242 --> 00:39:31.994
I mean, how long has it been

00:39:31.994 --> 00:39:34.705
since people started
getting second opinions

00:39:34.705 --> 00:39:35.915
from their doctors?

00:39:35.915 --> 00:39:38.042
'Cause you trusted your doctor.

00:39:38.042 --> 00:39:39.043
You know, they were the ones

00:39:39.043 --> 00:39:41.420
that were gonna get you
through whatever it was.

00:39:42.505 --> 00:39:43.756
- No, I know.

00:39:43.756 --> 00:39:46.675
- You know, there's a level of
trust that people have with,

00:39:48.260 --> 00:39:51.722
you know, people in those
positions of authority.

00:39:51.722 --> 00:39:54.266
And you would never second guess that.

00:39:58.604 --> 00:40:01.857
- 25 years ago, the legal
basis for segregation

00:40:01.857 --> 00:40:03.943
was struck down.

00:40:03.943 --> 00:40:07.530
But racial segregation
still exists in our schools.

00:40:08.614 --> 00:40:10.032
Let us not be discouraged.

00:40:11.117 --> 00:40:13.786
Let us just be even more determined.

00:40:14.954 --> 00:40:19.583
- Jimmy Carter was a Southern
Baptist Sunday school teacher

00:40:19.583 --> 00:40:21.460
and a vowed born-again Christian,

00:40:21.460 --> 00:40:24.422
someone who sought to govern

00:40:24.422 --> 00:40:27.925
according to his religious principles.

00:40:29.176 --> 00:40:31.220
- [Interviewer] What's
important to you in November?

00:40:31.220 --> 00:40:32.430
- Biblical principles.

00:40:32.430 --> 00:40:33.264
- [Interviewer] Don't you have

00:40:33.264 --> 00:40:35.349
three born-again Christians running,

00:40:35.349 --> 00:40:37.685
John Anderson, Jimmy Carter and Ronald-

00:40:37.685 --> 00:40:39.353
- I don't know,

00:40:39.353 --> 00:40:43.107
If I looked at, looking
at the Democratic platform

00:40:43.107 --> 00:40:48.112
and the things that Jimmy Carter supports,

00:40:49.238 --> 00:40:51.907
I'm not sure that Jesus Christ...

00:40:51.907 --> 00:40:55.119
Well, I know that Christ will
not support that platform.

00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:57.455
- [Announcer] Real
pleasure to present to you

00:40:57.455 --> 00:40:59.582
Governor Reagan, gentlemen.

00:41:01.792 --> 00:41:06.755
- Reagan opened his 1980 fall
general election campaign

00:41:06.755 --> 00:41:10.134
in, of all places, Nashoba
County, Mississippi.

00:41:11.093 --> 00:41:15.055
This is the place where 16 years earlier

00:41:15.055 --> 00:41:18.559
the Ku Klux Klan captured and murdered

00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:21.812
three civil rights workers
and buried their bodies

00:41:21.812 --> 00:41:24.648
in an earthen dam outside of
Philadelphia, Mississippi.

00:41:28.652 --> 00:41:33.491
- I believe there are programs
like education, others

00:41:33.491 --> 00:41:36.160
that should be turned back to the states

00:41:36.160 --> 00:41:39.622
and the local communities with
the tax sources to fund them.

00:41:39.622 --> 00:41:41.499
- [Randall] And on that
occasion, Reagan, of course,

00:41:41.499 --> 00:41:44.001
the master of symbolism said-

00:41:44.001 --> 00:41:46.295
- I believe in states' rights.

00:41:46.295 --> 00:41:49.965
- You know, that age-old
segregationist battle cry.

00:41:52.843 --> 00:41:56.764
As the 1980 presidential
election approached,

00:41:56.764 --> 00:41:58.974
it became very clear to Falwell

00:41:58.974 --> 00:42:03.771
that Carter was not going to
support segregated schools.

00:42:05.272 --> 00:42:08.609
So that was drawing
Falwell and other leaders

00:42:08.609 --> 00:42:12.029
of the religious right away
from Carter to Ronald Reagan,

00:42:12.029 --> 00:42:15.533
given his record as well
as his rhetoric in 1980.

00:42:16.825 --> 00:42:20.037
The key event of the 1980 campaign,

00:42:20.037 --> 00:42:22.373
at least for evangelicals,

00:42:22.373 --> 00:42:25.960
was this huge gathering in Dallas, Texas.

00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:28.462
(crowd cheers)

00:42:28.462 --> 00:42:30.673
And that's the event
where Reagan stands up

00:42:30.673 --> 00:42:31.966
and famously says.

00:42:31.966 --> 00:42:35.135
- Now I know this is a
non-partisan gathering,

00:42:35.135 --> 00:42:38.639
and so I know that you can't endorse me,

00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.016
but I only brought that up

00:42:41.016 --> 00:42:44.061
because I want you to
know that I endorse you

00:42:44.061 --> 00:42:44.895
and what you're doing.

00:42:44.895 --> 00:42:47.856
- In that speech, he
talks about creationism,

00:42:49.149 --> 00:42:52.152
he talks about the
Internal Revenue Service,

00:42:52.152 --> 00:42:56.532
rescinding the tax exemption
at segregation academies.

00:42:57.533 --> 00:43:00.744
He does not mention abortion.

00:43:00.744 --> 00:43:02.329
- Thank you so much for being with us

00:43:02.329 --> 00:43:04.164
on the PTL Club today.

00:43:04.164 --> 00:43:06.208
- Oh, thank you. Enjoyed it.

00:43:07.668 --> 00:43:11.088
- This has been Jim Bakker
with Governor Ronald Reagan

00:43:11.088 --> 00:43:12.715
in Los Angeles, California.

00:43:12.715 --> 00:43:15.092
I want to thank you for
joining with us today

00:43:15.092 --> 00:43:16.844
and thank Governor Reagan.

00:43:16.844 --> 00:43:17.678
Thank you.

00:43:28.230 --> 00:43:29.064
Appreciate it.

00:43:30.107 --> 00:43:32.192
The evangelical world is,

00:43:32.192 --> 00:43:34.445
for the first time in any election,

00:43:34.445 --> 00:43:37.615
is gonna be united if the
way it continues to move.

00:43:37.615 --> 00:43:40.576
But we're having all over this country

00:43:40.576 --> 00:43:42.411
meeting together with leaders.

00:43:42.411 --> 00:43:43.912
This has brought us together.

00:43:43.912 --> 00:43:46.540
We're a common cause that
we've never had before.

00:43:46.540 --> 00:43:48.208
It's literally survival.

00:43:48.208 --> 00:43:50.419
The men that have never
really gotten involved,

00:43:50.419 --> 00:43:53.130
by the hundreds are coming together.

00:43:53.130 --> 00:43:57.801
And just this week, Pat
Robertson and Jerry Falwell

00:43:57.801 --> 00:43:59.637
have come to your side.

00:43:59.637 --> 00:44:03.307
I believe we can deliver, with God's help,

00:44:03.307 --> 00:44:07.478
all of the men quietly behind
the scenes, 50 million voters.

00:44:07.478 --> 00:44:09.313
I believe that with all my heart.

00:44:09.313 --> 00:44:12.232
And if God is in it,

00:44:12.232 --> 00:44:14.443
and you continue to be the man

00:44:14.443 --> 00:44:16.070
that's sensitive to our needs.

00:44:17.488 --> 00:44:21.325
- Ronald Reagan was
championed by Jerry Falwell

00:44:21.325 --> 00:44:23.452
and other leaders of the religious right

00:44:23.452 --> 00:44:25.913
as this pro-life president.

00:44:27.081 --> 00:44:31.335
And yet, Ronald Reagan
as governor of California

00:44:31.335 --> 00:44:33.462
in 1967 had signed into law

00:44:33.462 --> 00:44:36.423
the most liberal abortion
bill in the country,

00:44:36.423 --> 00:44:38.926
whereas Jimmy Carter
as governor of Georgia

00:44:38.926 --> 00:44:43.931
had sought to limit the number
of abortions in Georgia.

00:44:44.181 --> 00:44:48.185
- [Kristen] Did Reagan ever
overtly claim to be pro-life

00:44:48.185 --> 00:44:49.687
before getting elected?

00:44:49.687 --> 00:44:50.521
- Yeah.

00:44:51.814 --> 00:44:54.525
Moving into the fall campaign polls showed

00:44:54.525 --> 00:44:56.652
that Reagan was trailing Carter,

00:44:56.652 --> 00:44:59.196
and that's when he began campaigning

00:44:59.196 --> 00:45:01.198
on the issue of abortion.

00:45:01.198 --> 00:45:04.118
- I happen to believe from all the study

00:45:04.118 --> 00:45:06.036
that I have been able to do,

00:45:06.036 --> 00:45:08.163
all the information I've been able to get,

00:45:08.163 --> 00:45:09.623
that when you interrupt a pregnancy,

00:45:09.623 --> 00:45:11.667
you are taking a human life.

00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:20.175
- [Kristen] Being pro-life
wasn't just political for me.

00:45:21.343 --> 00:45:23.887
It was the center of my faith.

00:45:23.887 --> 00:45:27.141
Not only do I feel betrayed,

00:45:27.141 --> 00:45:30.728
I feel shame that I
didn't know this sooner,

00:45:30.728 --> 00:45:33.230
that I didn't ask these questions earlier.

00:45:34.732 --> 00:45:39.319
Because it was a lie and it
had nothing to do with Jesus.

00:45:42.489 --> 00:45:46.076
- A lot of the white post evangelicals

00:45:46.076 --> 00:45:49.329
are struggling with the fact
that they've been lied to,

00:45:49.329 --> 00:45:51.874
and so they wanna reject
the Bible altogether,

00:45:51.874 --> 00:45:54.668
because, oh, this thing is evil.

00:45:54.668 --> 00:45:56.336
- [Kristen] But what it's become,

00:45:57.254 --> 00:45:59.006
I can't imagine ever referring to myself

00:45:59.006 --> 00:46:00.507
as evangelical again.

00:46:00.507 --> 00:46:03.177
(crowd murmurs)

00:46:07.347 --> 00:46:09.516
- As evangelicals, what
we need to be doing

00:46:09.516 --> 00:46:14.521
is to confront history to
be reconciled to history.

00:46:15.189 --> 00:46:20.194
To go back and interrogate
the stories you were told

00:46:20.527 --> 00:46:23.363
about who you are and how you got here.

00:46:24.448 --> 00:46:25.282
- Hi Lori.

00:46:26.200 --> 00:46:27.242
- [Lori] Hi guys.

00:46:27.242 --> 00:46:28.911
- Hey, Mom.

00:46:28.911 --> 00:46:32.372
- Whatever happened in
the generations before us

00:46:32.372 --> 00:46:35.542
has shaped us in some way we
don't completely understand.

00:46:40.130 --> 00:46:44.134
We've lived in a culture where people

00:46:44.134 --> 00:46:47.930
who hold on to these
particular views of the Bible

00:46:47.930 --> 00:46:49.556
and particular views of Jesus,

00:46:49.556 --> 00:46:51.975
that they refer to as fundamentals,

00:46:51.975 --> 00:46:55.229
that those people have been despised

00:46:55.229 --> 00:46:58.232
and really shamed by elite culture.

00:46:58.232 --> 00:47:00.317
And we can think that they don't matter,

00:47:00.317 --> 00:47:02.736
but the truth is, it still matters.

00:47:03.904 --> 00:47:04.780
- [Kristen] If there's a word

00:47:04.780 --> 00:47:06.782
that I would use to describe my experience

00:47:06.782 --> 00:47:09.076
within evangelicalism, it would be shame.

00:47:09.076 --> 00:47:11.328
Whether that's my identity

00:47:11.328 --> 00:47:15.082
as a woman in the church, sexually,

00:47:15.082 --> 00:47:16.416
you name it really.

00:47:16.416 --> 00:47:17.251
- [Diana] Right.

00:47:17.251 --> 00:47:18.919
- [Kristen] When you say that shame

00:47:18.919 --> 00:47:21.421
has fundamentally shaped
evangelicalism in America,

00:47:21.421 --> 00:47:22.422
what do you mean by that?

00:47:22.422 --> 00:47:26.134
- In shame-based
religions, what happens is

00:47:26.134 --> 00:47:32.599
a person has a sense of guilt or feels bad

00:47:33.183 --> 00:47:39.022
by a lack of honor or a
violation against oneself.

00:47:39.314 --> 00:47:43.151
And so what do you do
to get rid of shame is

00:47:43.151 --> 00:47:47.823
you have to somehow lift up
the honor of the culture.

00:47:49.533 --> 00:47:52.870
And one of the aspects
which that's worked out

00:47:52.870 --> 00:47:55.873
has been around the idea of gender.

00:47:57.207 --> 00:48:01.378
Because white American evangelical men

00:48:01.378 --> 00:48:06.383
want to maintain and restore
the honor of their women.

00:48:12.180 --> 00:48:15.309
- Did I ever, I don't
think I ever told you.

00:48:15.309 --> 00:48:18.395
When we were at Christ Presbyterian Church

00:48:18.395 --> 00:48:20.397
and I was singing in the worship team

00:48:20.397 --> 00:48:22.733
and I remember, I don't
remember who it was,

00:48:22.733 --> 00:48:24.860
it was one of the female
elders of the church,

00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:26.153
have I told you this?

00:48:26.153 --> 00:48:29.072
- Mm, I don't think so.

00:48:29.072 --> 00:48:30.824
- I could not have been older than 16.

00:48:30.824 --> 00:48:35.704
And she came up to me after
the service and she said,

00:48:38.165 --> 00:48:40.918
she said, "When you lift
your hands in the air,

00:48:40.918 --> 00:48:43.879
you're causing the men in
the church to stumble."

00:48:45.339 --> 00:48:46.173
- What?!

00:48:48.342 --> 00:48:52.095
- She said, "You're causing
married men to lust after you."

00:48:54.932 --> 00:48:56.558
- You have got to be kidding.

00:48:56.558 --> 00:48:58.936
I am really sorry you didn't tell me then.

00:48:58.936 --> 00:48:59.770
- Yeah.

00:49:01.188 --> 00:49:03.231
- Oh, that makes me sick.

00:49:03.231 --> 00:49:04.066
- Yeah.

00:49:05.943 --> 00:49:07.736
- [Lori] So wrong in so many ways.

00:49:07.736 --> 00:49:08.570
- Yeah.

00:49:09.446 --> 00:49:11.406
- [Lori] I'm really sorry that happened.

00:49:20.958 --> 00:49:24.044
- [Kristen] I remember learning
and deeply internalizing

00:49:24.044 --> 00:49:26.046
that if I had sex before marriage,

00:49:26.046 --> 00:49:29.091
that no good Christian man would want me.

00:49:31.885 --> 00:49:34.554
I remember learning
that when I got married,

00:49:34.554 --> 00:49:37.557
I would be standing at the
altar before my husband

00:49:37.557 --> 00:49:39.309
and all of my sexual partners

00:49:39.309 --> 00:49:41.478
would be standing up there with me.

00:49:41.478 --> 00:49:45.732
That I would be bringing
anybody that I was impure with

00:49:45.732 --> 00:49:49.319
into my marriage, and that it
would not be holy and pure.

00:49:51.321 --> 00:49:55.158
When I did lose my virginity
before I got married,

00:49:55.158 --> 00:49:57.995
I remember just sobbing afterwards,

00:49:58.829 --> 00:50:01.456
thinking that I had just
done the worst thing

00:50:01.456 --> 00:50:04.251
and that nobody would want me.

00:50:04.251 --> 00:50:05.919
I was damaged goods.

00:50:07.671 --> 00:50:10.590
My value had, in the course

00:50:10.590 --> 00:50:13.969
of one evening, drastically decreased.

00:50:16.304 --> 00:50:20.350
- Shame is something
that can motivate people

00:50:20.350 --> 00:50:25.355
in ways that are politically dangerous.

00:50:30.527 --> 00:50:32.529
If you look back in American culture,

00:50:32.529 --> 00:50:35.490
100 years ago, there was a big fight.

00:50:35.490 --> 00:50:39.619
It was about the future
of Protestant churches,

00:50:39.619 --> 00:50:42.372
and what people were arguing about was

00:50:42.372 --> 00:50:46.877
whether or not it was okay
for a follower of Jesus

00:50:46.877 --> 00:50:54.551
to embrace contemporary ideas
about science and history,

00:50:54.551 --> 00:51:00.640
or that the Bible alone
told the full sum story

00:51:01.391 --> 00:51:04.394
of faith and meaning.

00:51:05.645 --> 00:51:08.315
Eventually, the
fundamentalists were shamed,

00:51:08.315 --> 00:51:11.234
because they were considered to be naive

00:51:11.234 --> 00:51:13.403
or somehow culturally backwards.

00:51:14.821 --> 00:51:20.577
But as the 20th century
unfolds, the more liberal side

00:51:21.078 --> 00:51:25.415
begin to take on many of
the issues of the culture,

00:51:25.415 --> 00:51:26.750
because they're not afraid of the culture.

00:51:26.750 --> 00:51:28.835
- It's the essence of
its own being in Christ-

00:51:28.835 --> 00:51:31.588
- To the point of having
women who are pastors

00:51:31.588 --> 00:51:35.509
and to the point where civil
rights becomes at least a cause

00:51:35.509 --> 00:51:37.344
that the liberal denominations embrace.

00:51:37.344 --> 00:51:38.512
- [Chant Leader] What do we want?

00:51:38.512 --> 00:51:39.346
(crowd yells indistinctly)

00:51:39.346 --> 00:51:40.180
When do we want it?

00:51:40.180 --> 00:51:41.014
- [Crowd] Now!

00:51:41.014 --> 00:51:41.848
- [Chant Leader] What do we want?

00:51:41.848 --> 00:51:45.352
- In the 1970s, that form of Christianity

00:51:45.352 --> 00:51:47.604
begins to collapse,

00:51:47.604 --> 00:51:50.440
mostly having to do with the
birth of the baby boomers

00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:53.443
and the rejection of church.

00:51:54.444 --> 00:51:57.239
And so what happens,
fundamentalists try to say

00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.949
that their liberal brothers and sisters

00:51:58.949 --> 00:52:01.243
are wrong about everything.

00:52:01.243 --> 00:52:05.580
And so embracing feminism
becomes one more sign

00:52:05.580 --> 00:52:07.791
that the liberals have gone astray.

00:52:07.791 --> 00:52:11.253
- The equal rights amendment
and equal rights for women

00:52:11.253 --> 00:52:12.754
have really no connection.

00:52:12.754 --> 00:52:13.588
As a matter of fact,

00:52:13.588 --> 00:52:15.882
we believe in superior rights for women.

00:52:15.882 --> 00:52:18.218
We believe when a man marries a woman,

00:52:18.218 --> 00:52:20.470
she is his obligation for life.

00:52:20.470 --> 00:52:24.099
- And so fundamentalists
begin to say, "Okay,

00:52:24.099 --> 00:52:27.394
well, what we have to do is
we have to reassert the fact

00:52:27.394 --> 00:52:29.229
that men are superior."

00:52:29.229 --> 00:52:30.397
- [Interviewer] How do
you feel about the ERA?

00:52:30.397 --> 00:52:32.941
- It's against everything
that Christianity is.

00:52:32.941 --> 00:52:34.901
It's against God's word.

00:52:34.901 --> 00:52:35.902
- [Interviewer] In what way?

00:52:35.902 --> 00:52:36.736
- The ERA?

00:52:36.736 --> 00:52:37.195
- [Interviewer] Yeah.

00:52:37.195 --> 00:52:38.029
- Itself?

00:52:38.029 --> 00:52:41.992
Because God didn't make women to...

00:52:41.992 --> 00:52:45.245
Well, God made man to be superior
and to protect the woman.

00:52:45.245 --> 00:52:46.913
He didn't make woman to go out and fight.

00:52:46.913 --> 00:52:49.583
He made the man to go out and
fight and protect the woman.

00:52:53.336 --> 00:52:55.505
- When I think about
what happened at home,

00:52:55.505 --> 00:52:58.341
I see a direct line to what
was happening in church.

00:52:58.341 --> 00:52:59.176
- Yeah.

00:52:59.176 --> 00:53:01.970
- But what was confusing for me was that

00:53:01.970 --> 00:53:04.848
when you were outside the
home, you were a leader.

00:53:04.848 --> 00:53:08.518
You were a leader in the
community, you were a boss.

00:53:08.518 --> 00:53:11.771
But in our home, you had to
be submissive to somebody

00:53:11.771 --> 00:53:13.523
who did not deserve that power.

00:53:13.523 --> 00:53:19.362
And that was confusing and really hard.

00:53:20.030 --> 00:53:23.325
- You know, your dad and I were
both involved in the church,

00:53:23.325 --> 00:53:24.492
I was in the women's ministry

00:53:24.492 --> 00:53:26.536
and your dad was involved in doing things

00:53:26.536 --> 00:53:29.206
with the men of the church and
other things at the church.

00:53:29.206 --> 00:53:34.211
And, you know, we as a family, you know,

00:53:34.294 --> 00:53:38.298
were hitting some
serious forks in the road

00:53:38.298 --> 00:53:43.053
that I thought one was
impacting both of you,

00:53:43.053 --> 00:53:44.179
your sister and you.

00:53:44.179 --> 00:53:48.725
And his anger issues
and his emotional issues

00:53:48.725 --> 00:53:51.478
and things that were not conducive

00:53:51.478 --> 00:53:56.483
to being a better parent, a good parent,

00:53:56.691 --> 00:54:02.864
a better husband, good husband,
was really crescendoing.

00:54:03.240 --> 00:54:07.827
I remember telling him, if he hit me

00:54:08.828 --> 00:54:12.540
that that was the end, we're done.

00:54:12.540 --> 00:54:14.251
- [Kristen] But he did hit you.

00:54:18.338 --> 00:54:19.506
You don't remember?

00:54:26.513 --> 00:54:29.683
- [Lori] I think I walked pretty much numb

00:54:29.683 --> 00:54:32.102
through a lot of those years of marriage.

00:54:35.689 --> 00:54:38.108
- [Kristen] I remember you
being really full of life

00:54:38.108 --> 00:54:42.404
and joyful and outgoing and funny.

00:54:42.404 --> 00:54:48.243
And I feel like over a period
of time I saw your light dim

00:54:48.410 --> 00:54:49.244
- [Lori] Yeah.

00:54:49.244 --> 00:54:52.956
- [Kristen] And was
witness to you going numb.

00:54:52.956 --> 00:54:53.790
- [Lori] Yeah.

00:54:56.376 --> 00:54:59.129
- [Kristen] But you went
to our pastor for support.

00:54:59.129 --> 00:55:00.213
- [Lori] Yeah.

00:55:00.213 --> 00:55:02.590
He said that I needed to
continue being crucified

00:55:02.590 --> 00:55:05.969
in my marriage and to
hold that obligation.

00:55:07.220 --> 00:55:09.264
It's not that I wasn't trying to do that,

00:55:10.807 --> 00:55:12.434
just wasn't going down that path.

00:55:12.434 --> 00:55:13.768
- We'll talk to you later, okay?

00:55:13.768 --> 00:55:14.769
- Bye.

00:55:14.769 --> 00:55:20.066
And finally I was like, I'm
not living like this anymore.

00:55:20.984 --> 00:55:24.821
We're not living like this
anymore. I will not be married.

00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:28.825
And so I left.

00:55:54.684 --> 00:55:57.771
- I gotta be careful not
to crack them unequally.

00:55:57.771 --> 00:56:00.523
'cause then we'll have
unequally yolked eggs.

00:56:03.443 --> 00:56:05.028
- [Kristen] Ba dum tss.

00:56:05.028 --> 00:56:05.862
(both chuckling)

00:56:08.448 --> 00:56:09.282
- Here all day.

00:56:09.282 --> 00:56:10.325
- [Kristen] (chuckles)

00:56:14.371 --> 00:56:15.830
Do you wanna smell this?
'Cause this is like...

00:56:15.830 --> 00:56:16.998
- I know I can smell it.

00:56:16.998 --> 00:56:18.708
I'm gonna add just a little more salt.

00:56:18.708 --> 00:56:19.626
Each thing you just added.

00:56:19.626 --> 00:56:20.710
- No, no, no, no.
- Just a little.

00:56:20.710 --> 00:56:21.544
- This is what happens.

00:56:21.544 --> 00:56:22.670
You add a ton of salt,

00:56:22.670 --> 00:56:26.716
and then we have a salt
lick for breakfast.

00:56:28.176 --> 00:56:31.346
- We met when we were like 18 and 19.

00:56:31.346 --> 00:56:32.389
We went to the same high school

00:56:32.389 --> 00:56:34.974
but didn't really know each other.

00:56:34.974 --> 00:56:39.229
- I think I knew of you,
but our paths never crossed.

00:56:39.229 --> 00:56:43.066
- I think I thought you were
the guy in the Christian Club.

00:56:43.066 --> 00:56:44.651
- See, that's why we ended up together.

00:56:44.651 --> 00:56:46.361
'Cause you're salt and I'm light.

00:56:49.489 --> 00:56:52.700
I grew up with Jesus. I
went to abortion rallies.

00:56:52.700 --> 00:56:54.661
My mom would take us.

00:56:54.661 --> 00:56:58.081
I just remember thinking like
I was doing a good thing.

00:56:58.081 --> 00:57:01.501
My dad got religion from my mom.

00:57:01.501 --> 00:57:04.421
There was a lot of instability,

00:57:04.421 --> 00:57:07.882
a lot of anger and rage.

00:57:09.426 --> 00:57:12.053
And my dad looked to my mom

00:57:12.053 --> 00:57:15.432
as the person that would save him.

00:57:15.432 --> 00:57:20.270
And the only thing that was
keeping my mom in was Jesus.

00:57:22.272 --> 00:57:25.024
- [Kristen] Yeah. That's
why my mom stayed.

00:57:25.024 --> 00:57:27.694
It's why I stayed for a long time.

00:57:29.237 --> 00:57:30.530
- When we started dating,

00:57:33.366 --> 00:57:35.577
neither one of us wanted to be together.

00:57:35.577 --> 00:57:38.455
Neither one of us wanted anybody else.

00:57:38.455 --> 00:57:41.207
And it wasn't what we wanted,

00:57:41.207 --> 00:57:43.960
but it was exactly what we needed.

00:57:45.128 --> 00:57:47.297
Kristen Sue Irving-

00:57:47.297 --> 00:57:51.551
- I had blinders on to some
pretty serious red flags,

00:57:51.551 --> 00:57:53.595
because, oh well, we both love Jesus

00:57:53.595 --> 00:57:54.971
and that's all that matters.

00:57:56.055 --> 00:57:57.974
- [Daniel] I remember
yelling and not knowing

00:57:57.974 --> 00:58:00.977
how to really like express

00:58:00.977 --> 00:58:04.564
without just completely lashing out.

00:58:04.564 --> 00:58:09.569
And my sort of threshold of
gauging that in my relationship

00:58:09.777 --> 00:58:13.656
was, well, as long as
I'm not as bad as my dad,

00:58:13.656 --> 00:58:14.908
then I'm doing okay.

00:58:19.412 --> 00:58:21.289
- [Kristen] I remember
just like covering my face

00:58:21.289 --> 00:58:22.957
and my ears and just sobbing,

00:58:22.957 --> 00:58:23.958
and you were just yelling at me,

00:58:23.958 --> 00:58:26.961
and I don't even remember what
you were yelling at me about,

00:58:26.961 --> 00:58:29.088
but there was so much of that.

00:58:29.088 --> 00:58:31.090
- [Daniel] Yeah, I remember that.

00:58:33.259 --> 00:58:35.428
- [Kristen] And I hadn't
been treated that way

00:58:35.428 --> 00:58:37.931
by anybody since my dad.

00:58:39.641 --> 00:58:42.101
- [Daniel] I remember
being taught growing up

00:58:42.101 --> 00:58:44.187
that the man is the head of the household.

00:58:45.855 --> 00:58:49.025
- [Kristen] Submitting
to my dad, our pastors,

00:58:49.025 --> 00:58:53.279
and then to you, despite
how you used that power,

00:58:53.279 --> 00:58:54.697
was a sign of holiness.

00:58:57.784 --> 00:59:02.163
- The Bible actually says
God brought her to the man.

00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:06.834
- [Daniel] I just remember thinking

00:59:06.834 --> 00:59:11.714
in our upbringings, the bad
things or the flaws that I have

00:59:11.714 --> 00:59:14.842
are like the influence of the devil.

00:59:18.846 --> 00:59:20.807
- [Kristen] The most
significant turning point for me

00:59:20.807 --> 00:59:26.229
in our relationship was when
I finally admitted to myself

00:59:26.229 --> 00:59:27.897
that I no longer believed in hell.

00:59:29.983 --> 00:59:31.985
That meant that Satan wasn't real

00:59:31.985 --> 00:59:33.903
and that Satan was not responsible

00:59:33.903 --> 00:59:36.489
for the way that you were treating me.

00:59:36.489 --> 00:59:37.407
But you were.

00:59:40.493 --> 00:59:42.745
I decided that I wasn't going

00:59:42.745 --> 00:59:44.747
to be submissive to you anymore.

00:59:50.420 --> 00:59:52.755
Because up until that
point, it's almost like

00:59:52.755 --> 00:59:54.591
it was you and me against Satan,

00:59:54.591 --> 00:59:56.718
even though you were the one harming me.

01:00:00.847 --> 01:00:01.681
- [Daniel] That's not something

01:00:01.681 --> 01:00:03.683
that Jesus can just make go away.

01:00:04.601 --> 01:00:10.523
It leaves out the whole element
of personal responsibility.

01:00:15.111 --> 01:00:17.780
- [Kristen] The hardest
part wasn't forgiving you.

01:00:17.780 --> 01:00:21.784
It was forgiving myself for
staying during those times.

01:00:21.784 --> 01:00:23.703
And I swore to myself growing up

01:00:23.703 --> 01:00:26.623
that I would never stay in
an abusive relationship.

01:00:33.504 --> 01:00:37.550
I want to be angry with
Daniel and with my mom

01:00:38.926 --> 01:00:41.220
for showing me how to betray myself.

01:00:42.055 --> 01:00:43.890
But then I remember,

01:00:43.890 --> 01:00:46.643
she was just surviving
the same system I was.

01:00:47.477 --> 01:00:49.896
Sometimes it's difficult
to know who the victims

01:00:49.896 --> 01:00:51.481
and who the perpetrators are.

01:00:54.776 --> 01:00:57.904
- It's too easy for white women

01:00:57.904 --> 01:00:59.906
to think the problem is the white men.

01:00:59.906 --> 01:01:01.491
- [Announcer] So guys, if it is your desire

01:01:01.491 --> 01:01:03.910
to commit your lives to your wife,

01:01:03.910 --> 01:01:05.578
to serving her, to loving her

01:01:05.578 --> 01:01:08.122
to honoring her, then join me right now

01:01:08.122 --> 01:01:10.166
in kneeling as I kneel.

01:01:10.166 --> 01:01:14.754
- I fully recognize the
degree to which white women

01:01:14.754 --> 01:01:18.341
play into the white supremacy.

01:01:18.341 --> 01:01:21.135
My preferred term for
the widely held notions

01:01:21.135 --> 01:01:24.138
about women in submission
in American fundamentalism

01:01:24.138 --> 01:01:25.682
is patriarchal white supremacy.

01:01:25.682 --> 01:01:30.687
Because I don't think that you
can separate the patriarchy

01:01:30.770 --> 01:01:33.815
from the issues of race.

01:01:33.815 --> 01:01:38.027
- There is a relationship
between what took place

01:01:38.027 --> 01:01:42.532
in the 1860s when the
Civil War ravaged our land

01:01:42.532 --> 01:01:44.117
and what's going on today.

01:01:44.117 --> 01:01:48.663
That began with a terrible
Supreme Court decision.

01:01:48.663 --> 01:01:51.207
(crowd cheers)

01:01:52.542 --> 01:01:54.168
- [Kristen] My understanding is that

01:01:54.168 --> 01:01:56.879
when the pro-life
movement was being formed,

01:01:56.879 --> 01:01:58.631
and even now there, there was an adoption

01:01:58.631 --> 01:02:00.967
of abolitionist language,

01:02:00.967 --> 01:02:04.011
that the unborn that are lost to abortion

01:02:06.055 --> 01:02:07.557
were essentially enslaved.

01:02:07.557 --> 01:02:10.810
I mean, they adopted the
same abolitionist language

01:02:10.810 --> 01:02:13.312
for people who were
anti-abortion crusaders,

01:02:14.522 --> 01:02:17.316
as did people who were
trying to abolish slavery.

01:02:17.316 --> 01:02:22.238
- I think that that is
a way, it's a framing

01:02:22.363 --> 01:02:26.909
that makes this a justice issue for them,

01:02:26.909 --> 01:02:30.204
that I find ironic.

01:02:30.204 --> 01:02:34.709
Because the reality is, those same people

01:02:34.709 --> 01:02:38.171
actually sat out the
abolitionist movement,

01:02:38.171 --> 01:02:41.340
that sat out the civil rights movement.

01:02:42.759 --> 01:02:46.179
- And we have to be as
committed and dedicated

01:02:46.179 --> 01:02:49.599
as our forefathers were
when they went into battle

01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:53.770
to rescue Black Americans
from slavery and bondage.

01:02:56.773 --> 01:03:00.693
- Abortion becomes an issue
that's very easy for people

01:03:00.693 --> 01:03:01.903
to get their minds around.

01:03:01.903 --> 01:03:06.032
That isn't immediately about
the submission of women.

01:03:06.032 --> 01:03:09.994
Instead, it looks like it's
the protection of life.

01:03:11.454 --> 01:03:15.708
And so it becomes a very powerful
tool in the gender toolkit

01:03:15.708 --> 01:03:17.752
of conservative evangelicalism,

01:03:17.752 --> 01:03:22.381
because there are very
few people who want to say,

01:03:22.381 --> 01:03:23.800
"I voted for the religious right

01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:25.635
because I wanted to control women,

01:03:25.635 --> 01:03:26.886
or I didn't like black people."

01:03:27.720 --> 01:03:32.767
- And the key to that process
are the women of this country.

01:03:34.936 --> 01:03:39.816
This may be the first war in our history

01:03:39.816 --> 01:03:42.109
that was won by the women.

01:03:43.069 --> 01:03:44.946
- Instead, they want to
be involved in something

01:03:44.946 --> 01:03:47.990
that they think is changing
the world for the better

01:03:47.990 --> 01:03:51.661
and to be the heroes of our own story.

01:03:51.661 --> 01:03:54.413
And so to say that they're
protecting unborn life,

01:03:54.413 --> 01:03:58.292
you set yourself up as
the hero in the story

01:03:58.292 --> 01:04:00.503
over and against the people who are evil.

01:04:16.060 --> 01:04:17.478
- Four months ago,

01:04:20.106 --> 01:04:23.401
I lost a pregnancy.

01:04:24.318 --> 01:04:26.320
I had a miscarriage.

01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:29.073
I was only eight weeks along.

01:04:30.491 --> 01:04:34.787
It's enough time to
start dreaming and hoping

01:04:34.787 --> 01:04:38.624
and being excited about what
your life and your family

01:04:38.624 --> 01:04:41.335
will look like with this
additional new life.

01:04:42.253 --> 01:04:43.337
And I'm struggling.

01:04:50.011 --> 01:04:52.430
I've now lost two pregnancies.

01:04:54.223 --> 01:04:56.809
I'm afraid I won't be able
to carry a pregnancy to term.

01:05:00.980 --> 01:05:03.608
You know, "It's a fetus."
"No, it's a baby."

01:05:03.608 --> 01:05:05.693
"No, life begins at first breath."

01:05:05.693 --> 01:05:07.194
No, life begins at conception."

01:05:07.194 --> 01:05:13.701
And to have been raised, to
have been raised to understand

01:05:13.701 --> 01:05:15.703
that life does begin at conception

01:05:15.703 --> 01:05:20.708
and, you know, to be taught
the scriptures about,

01:05:21.042 --> 01:05:25.212
you know, God knowing
every hair on one's head,

01:05:25.212 --> 01:05:29.634
but then to expand my
understanding of science,

01:05:30.885 --> 01:05:35.056
and it's really easy to
rationalize and intellectualize

01:05:35.056 --> 01:05:38.059
that what I lost was a fetus,
was a developing fetus.

01:05:38.059 --> 01:05:44.565
But that doesn't make
the grief of the hope

01:05:44.565 --> 01:05:50.363
of what could have been and
what I thought was any less.

01:05:58.037 --> 01:06:02.041
You know, as I've become an
adult and viewed you as my mom,

01:06:02.041 --> 01:06:04.085
but also, you know, as a fellow woman

01:06:04.085 --> 01:06:07.004
and even my own journey
of reproductive health,

01:06:07.004 --> 01:06:09.006
which has been really complicated,

01:06:09.006 --> 01:06:11.926
it's given me a different
layered perspective

01:06:11.926 --> 01:06:16.180
on the choice that you made to have me.

01:06:16.180 --> 01:06:17.348
I'm grateful that I'm here,

01:06:17.348 --> 01:06:19.517
but I also know that
you were really young.

01:06:19.517 --> 01:06:21.102
You were in college.

01:06:21.102 --> 01:06:23.020
- Yeah, my junior year.

01:06:23.020 --> 01:06:26.399
- If you hadn't been
indoctrinated hard view

01:06:26.399 --> 01:06:28.526
on being pro-life or, you know,

01:06:28.526 --> 01:06:31.862
a newly convert to evangelicalism,

01:06:31.862 --> 01:06:34.448
like would you have
made a different choice?

01:06:34.448 --> 01:06:41.872
- No, and frankly, the
decision to keep the pregnancy

01:06:45.126 --> 01:06:50.756
was not based on my Catholic upbringing.

01:06:51.048 --> 01:06:54.468
It was my personal choice.

01:06:56.470 --> 01:06:59.473
And I went through a few renditions

01:06:59.473 --> 01:07:01.225
of what that choice looked like,

01:07:02.727 --> 01:07:07.732
and then made the choice
to keep the pregnancy.

01:07:08.441 --> 01:07:09.275
- Why?

01:07:14.405 --> 01:07:18.325
- Because a couple years
prior to that pregnancy,

01:07:18.325 --> 01:07:22.747
I had another pregnancy, and
I made a different choice.

01:07:24.081 --> 01:07:25.249
- Hmm.

01:07:25.249 --> 01:07:29.086
- So there's my truths and
there's my connectivity

01:07:29.086 --> 01:07:30.671
to the conversation today.

01:07:34.258 --> 01:07:37.178
And I was told multiple times

01:07:37.178 --> 01:07:40.514
that there was a chance I
would never get pregnant again

01:07:40.514 --> 01:07:42.099
after that choice.

01:07:43.100 --> 01:07:46.812
And so when I became pregnant again,

01:07:47.646 --> 01:07:50.608
that was my gift back to the Lord

01:07:50.608 --> 01:07:53.527
that you belong to him forever and always.

01:07:59.033 --> 01:08:02.286
- I love you.

01:08:02.286 --> 01:08:03.329
- I love you more.

01:08:09.794 --> 01:08:11.629
- Thank you for sharing that with me.

01:08:14.381 --> 01:08:16.675
Do you regret making that choice?

01:08:18.969 --> 01:08:22.556
- Took a long time to reconcile

01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:30.981
the choice, but it was
my choice at that time,

01:08:31.899 --> 01:08:32.733
and...

01:08:36.529 --> 01:08:39.406
...it was the right thing
to do for me at that time.

01:09:13.524 --> 01:09:17.027
- So much of the foundational
belief that I inherited

01:09:18.279 --> 01:09:20.406
was built on lies.

01:09:20.406 --> 01:09:24.368
You know, there was such
calculated patient strategy

01:09:24.368 --> 01:09:27.288
around winning our country
for God and taking it back.

01:09:27.288 --> 01:09:32.084
And in terms of being
betrayed by loved ones,

01:09:32.084 --> 01:09:36.964
by colleagues, by the church,
by your former community,

01:09:36.964 --> 01:09:39.633
family, I mean, you've had

01:09:39.633 --> 01:09:41.218
probably more than anybody I know,

01:09:41.218 --> 01:09:43.053
more reason to give up on it.

01:09:45.723 --> 01:09:48.225
- It, I've given up on.

01:09:50.060 --> 01:09:51.395
Jesus, I haven't.

01:09:52.479 --> 01:09:55.399
Associating Jesus with the myth with it,

01:09:55.399 --> 01:09:57.610
that's really dangerous,
because Jesus does not look

01:09:57.610 --> 01:09:59.486
in any way like they look.

01:09:59.486 --> 01:10:01.614
His words get me through it.

01:10:03.115 --> 01:10:04.491
"Don't worry, Mel."

01:10:11.332 --> 01:10:13.000
They did it to me too.

01:10:15.294 --> 01:10:17.087
- [Interviewer] Mel, you were in the Club.

01:10:17.087 --> 01:10:19.006
- Yes sir. I was in the Club.

01:10:19.006 --> 01:10:20.925
- [Reporter] But now
Mel White is definitely

01:10:20.925 --> 01:10:22.176
out of the Club.

01:10:22.176 --> 01:10:23.844
His old friends on the religious right

01:10:23.844 --> 01:10:25.346
no longer speak to him.

01:10:25.346 --> 01:10:28.682
- And they did not know, or
perhaps did not want to know

01:10:28.682 --> 01:10:31.185
their friend and mentor's secret,

01:10:31.185 --> 01:10:34.480
a sin they railed against
from their various pulpits.

01:10:34.480 --> 01:10:39.360
- Thank God I can say
at last who I really am.

01:10:40.194 --> 01:10:45.199
I am gay, I am proud, and God
loves me without reservation.

01:10:45.783 --> 01:10:48.953
(congregation cheers)

01:10:50.496 --> 01:10:55.334
When I came out, I lost most
of my friends and my clients.

01:10:55.334 --> 01:10:56.877
You know, I lived with all of 'em

01:10:56.877 --> 01:10:58.837
and I've heard their stories personally

01:10:58.837 --> 01:11:02.216
and Falwell's my friend,
I enjoyed being with him,

01:11:02.216 --> 01:11:05.552
and then realize he was my enemy.

01:11:08.681 --> 01:11:12.351
- [Kristen] I look back
on the ways that I thought

01:11:12.351 --> 01:11:14.228
and interacted with the
people that I loved,

01:11:14.228 --> 01:11:20.401
people that loved me, and
I feel incredible remorse

01:11:20.401 --> 01:11:23.696
for the ways that I shamed other people.

01:11:25.322 --> 01:11:28.993
When my uncle was around, there was joy

01:11:28.993 --> 01:11:34.707
and there was laughter and I
felt like nobody could harm me.

01:11:35.541 --> 01:11:37.584
But because of what I was taught about

01:11:37.584 --> 01:11:38.836
what it meant to be gay,

01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:41.922
I literally thought he was going to hell.

01:11:45.384 --> 01:11:47.094
And I was told that I had the power

01:11:47.094 --> 01:11:48.595
to prevent that from happening.

01:11:51.432 --> 01:11:53.267
And it was not only a challenge for me,

01:11:53.267 --> 01:11:55.936
but it was a challenge
for my mom especially.

01:11:55.936 --> 01:11:58.355
And I remember her being conflicted,

01:11:58.355 --> 01:12:01.525
and both of us being
horrified that this person

01:12:01.525 --> 01:12:04.111
that we loved deeply could go to hell.

01:12:07.364 --> 01:12:09.199
I was probably about 16 years old,

01:12:09.199 --> 01:12:12.870
when my uncle came to
church to hear me sing.

01:12:13.912 --> 01:12:17.958
And I remember going to the
lead pastor of our church

01:12:17.958 --> 01:12:22.963
and saying, "My gay uncle
will be here this Sunday.

01:12:23.213 --> 01:12:25.424
I think we have an
opportunity to save him."

01:12:27.968 --> 01:12:31.305
At that time, I was
ordering my entire world

01:12:31.305 --> 01:12:33.140
around who was saved and who wasn't.

01:12:37.061 --> 01:12:39.313
And if you were in the unsaved category,

01:12:39.313 --> 01:12:43.150
it was my responsibility to
shift you to the other one.

01:12:45.944 --> 01:12:49.448
My senior year of college,
I read Mel's book,

01:12:49.448 --> 01:12:51.492
"Stranger at the Gate,"

01:12:51.492 --> 01:12:55.412
and it completely blew up my
world in a really good way.

01:12:57.831 --> 01:13:00.667
And so I suggested that
my mom read the book.

01:13:00.667 --> 01:13:01.502
And she did.

01:13:03.087 --> 01:13:04.588
I love you.

01:13:04.588 --> 01:13:07.174
- Vice versa, girl. Vice versa.

01:13:07.174 --> 01:13:09.635
- Mel was sort of a personal hero to me

01:13:09.635 --> 01:13:12.346
because he completely
transformed my family,

01:13:14.098 --> 01:13:17.518
and he gave us permission
to not only love somebody

01:13:17.518 --> 01:13:19.603
that we loved so deeply better,

01:13:21.188 --> 01:13:25.818
but he released us from
the pressure of believing

01:13:25.818 --> 01:13:27.861
that this person was going to hell.

01:13:40.124 --> 01:13:44.128
I was always taught
that there was an enemy.

01:13:44.128 --> 01:13:46.964
And the enemy kept changing.

01:13:48.465 --> 01:13:51.135
But there was always a group of people

01:13:51.969 --> 01:13:57.182
that were a threat to our
values and our way of life.

01:14:00.853 --> 01:14:03.355
When I was growing up in the church,

01:14:05.149 --> 01:14:08.402
the primary enemy was gay people.

01:14:08.402 --> 01:14:11.363
Certainly abortionists,
people who provided

01:14:11.363 --> 01:14:14.324
and received abortions were the enemy.

01:14:17.202 --> 01:14:22.082
I mean, you raised me
in churches that taught

01:14:22.082 --> 01:14:24.418
that that was like the ultimate sin.

01:14:26.086 --> 01:14:30.257
Like, you taught me to judge people.

01:14:30.257 --> 01:14:32.426
Like I was taught to
judge people like you.

01:14:35.220 --> 01:14:37.598
- Yeah, but I never did.

01:14:37.598 --> 01:14:38.599
- But you didn't help me.

01:14:38.599 --> 01:14:40.726
Like, I didn't know that difference.

01:14:40.726 --> 01:14:44.021
I wish you had helped me
understand those distinctions

01:14:44.021 --> 01:14:48.734
when I was younger, because
I thought, you know,

01:14:48.734 --> 01:14:51.570
being a Christian was being
bought in to a lot of things

01:14:51.570 --> 01:14:55.032
that I now understand is not real

01:14:55.032 --> 01:14:57.534
and it's really injured my faith.

01:14:57.534 --> 01:15:02.956
You know, like whether
it's the gay issue or race

01:15:02.956 --> 01:15:07.794
or women's role in the church
or in marriages or in homes,

01:15:07.794 --> 01:15:13.050
in church leadership or the
abortion issue, whatever it is.

01:15:13.050 --> 01:15:15.969
Like I was all in, you know?

01:15:15.969 --> 01:15:16.803
And...

01:15:18.597 --> 01:15:22.392
...it's made it just harder, I think,

01:15:22.392 --> 01:15:28.565
to stay connected to God
and to the faith to realize

01:15:29.942 --> 01:15:32.069
that those things really
didn't have much to do

01:15:32.069 --> 01:15:34.488
or anything to do with the faith at all.

01:15:35.906 --> 01:15:36.782
- [Rick] It's gonna cost you.

01:15:36.782 --> 01:15:37.783
- It always does, Rick.

01:15:37.783 --> 01:15:40.244
- [Kristen] I'm not sure
what's left for me here.

01:15:41.161 --> 01:15:44.456
I've fought so hard to
stay connected to Jesus,

01:15:46.750 --> 01:15:48.919
but I don't know that I can separate him

01:15:48.919 --> 01:15:50.921
from so many of his followers.

01:15:52.631 --> 01:15:55.092
- You don't need to throw out Jesus.

01:15:55.092 --> 01:15:57.177
You don't need to throw out the Bible.

01:15:57.177 --> 01:15:59.429
You need to rediscover the Bible

01:15:59.429 --> 01:16:02.432
written by brown colonized people.

01:16:02.432 --> 01:16:04.601
Let me tell you, this scripture,

01:16:04.601 --> 01:16:07.688
this scripture is the same scripture

01:16:07.688 --> 01:16:11.275
that freed the slaves, my ancestors,

01:16:11.275 --> 01:16:14.945
that actually sustained
them for generations.

01:16:27.332 --> 01:16:29.167
When you look at the
historic Black church,

01:16:29.167 --> 01:16:34.965
the lineage goes back to the
organizing of Black people

01:16:35.716 --> 01:16:40.053
for their freedom because of their faith,

01:16:40.053 --> 01:16:42.055
because they believed the scripture.

01:16:42.973 --> 01:16:45.017
It was actually the historic Black church

01:16:45.017 --> 01:16:48.520
that never split between
the social justice gospel

01:16:48.520 --> 01:16:52.190
and the evangelical, you
know, go-to-heaven gospel.

01:16:53.358 --> 01:16:57.321
They were Black, they were oppressed.

01:16:57.321 --> 01:17:01.158
It's that faith that
actually was the spearhead

01:17:01.158 --> 01:17:03.493
of the abolitionist movement.

01:17:03.493 --> 01:17:07.247
It's that faith that Dr. King

01:17:07.247 --> 01:17:09.666
and all of the champions

01:17:09.666 --> 01:17:12.085
of the Civil Rights movement came out of.

01:17:12.085 --> 01:17:14.171
But they were never, ever thinking

01:17:14.171 --> 01:17:16.757
that justice was divorced from this.

01:17:16.757 --> 01:17:18.759
They could see that in this gospel

01:17:18.759 --> 01:17:22.054
that the white folks
somehow didn't see it.

01:17:22.054 --> 01:17:24.264
This gospel was written
by people like them.

01:17:27.434 --> 01:17:29.436
- [Kristen] I think back on
so many of the scriptures

01:17:29.436 --> 01:17:32.689
that I was taught, and I was taught them

01:17:32.689 --> 01:17:34.941
in such a harmful way,

01:17:34.941 --> 01:17:37.778
I was taught to center
myself as a white person.

01:17:38.737 --> 01:17:41.740
I was taught that Jesus
could move mountains

01:17:41.740 --> 01:17:43.784
for me individually.

01:17:45.285 --> 01:17:48.246
In a way that creates a
sense of dominance for me.

01:17:49.706 --> 01:17:51.208
I get to have dominion.

01:17:53.293 --> 01:17:58.090
- The core sin of humanity
is the impetus to dominate,

01:17:58.924 --> 01:18:01.093
to dominate the self,

01:18:01.093 --> 01:18:04.137
not believing in the inherent image of God

01:18:04.137 --> 01:18:06.640
that is in each of us,
that gives us dignity,

01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:11.645
that cannot be taken away
by anything we do or anyone.

01:18:15.107 --> 01:18:17.818
It's also the domination of the other.

01:18:17.818 --> 01:18:22.447
That impetus to dominate
has only one purpose

01:18:22.447 --> 01:18:24.324
and that is to destroy us.

01:18:26.743 --> 01:18:30.497
Evangelicals are
notorious empire builders,

01:18:30.497 --> 01:18:33.083
so not only do we start
our own denominations

01:18:33.083 --> 01:18:35.752
or not have a denomination, we
just have a name for a church

01:18:35.752 --> 01:18:38.255
and then of course create whole empires

01:18:38.255 --> 01:18:41.925
around this one church name,
or we have megachurches.

01:18:41.925 --> 01:18:43.969
Where we have 20,000 people
that come to a church

01:18:43.969 --> 01:18:45.137
five times a week.

01:18:45.137 --> 01:18:46.638
That's basically a little mini city,

01:18:46.638 --> 01:18:48.265
when the pastor is the mayor.

01:18:49.182 --> 01:18:52.185
The reality is when they're
building the religious empires,

01:18:52.185 --> 01:18:54.980
what they're actually
doing, scripturally, is

01:18:54.980 --> 01:18:56.940
they're building their towers of Babel.

01:18:58.108 --> 01:19:01.361
They're building something
that will touch the sky

01:19:01.361 --> 01:19:03.363
and make a name for themselves.

01:19:03.363 --> 01:19:04.865
And what they're actually doing is

01:19:04.865 --> 01:19:08.368
warring with God for supremacy.

01:19:11.037 --> 01:19:12.622
- We're going to a political rally

01:19:12.622 --> 01:19:14.875
and we're gonna honor Jesus.

01:19:14.875 --> 01:19:16.126
And we're not gonna be ashamed and

01:19:16.126 --> 01:19:18.545
they're not gonna tell us
separation of church and state.

01:19:18.545 --> 01:19:20.130
We are the church.

01:19:20.130 --> 01:19:22.132
And we run this state.

01:19:22.132 --> 01:19:24.801
(crowd cheers)

01:19:26.219 --> 01:19:28.972
- [Kristen] I was taught
that the United States

01:19:28.972 --> 01:19:31.475
was founded on Christian principles,

01:19:31.475 --> 01:19:36.480
that our founding fathers
established a nation under God.

01:19:36.688 --> 01:19:38.732
- [Person] It's we the people.

01:19:38.732 --> 01:19:41.818
God gives us our liberty,
not the government.

01:19:41.818 --> 01:19:45.822
- [Kristen] And that those
values from our founding

01:19:45.822 --> 01:19:49.075
are worth defending at all costs.

01:19:49.075 --> 01:19:52.829
- If more good people had
concealed carry permits,

01:19:52.829 --> 01:19:54.539
then we could end those Muslims

01:19:54.539 --> 01:19:56.750
before they walked in and killed them.

01:19:56.750 --> 01:20:00.378
- [Kristen] And the ways
that political leadership

01:20:00.378 --> 01:20:04.424
maintains that power is
by convincing Christians

01:20:05.675 --> 01:20:08.720
that we are in a constant state of threat.

01:20:08.720 --> 01:20:10.222
- [Crowd] And lead us not into temptation,

01:20:10.222 --> 01:20:12.015
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

01:20:12.015 --> 01:20:16.853
- [Ted] I want an unruly,
uncontrollable American.

01:20:16.853 --> 01:20:21.441
We the people, we are
taking this country back.

01:20:21.441 --> 01:20:23.735
- [Person] To protect the
constitution of the United States

01:20:23.735 --> 01:20:25.946
against enemies, foreign and domestic.

01:20:25.946 --> 01:20:28.031
- [Crowd] USA! USA!

01:20:31.117 --> 01:20:34.704
- Jesus Christ, we invoke your name. Amen.

01:20:34.704 --> 01:20:35.956
- [Crowd] Amen.

01:20:37.958 --> 01:20:40.585
- [Diana] When you have that
sort of heightened sense

01:20:40.585 --> 01:20:44.589
that God is on your
side, it empowers people

01:20:44.589 --> 01:20:46.758
to do anything they can

01:20:46.758 --> 01:20:49.928
to achieve what they
think are sacred ends.

01:20:49.928 --> 01:20:51.638
- Let's pray together, may we?

01:20:51.638 --> 01:20:54.474
- And they will justify
all kinds of things

01:20:54.474 --> 01:20:57.143
they normally wouldn't justify.

01:20:57.143 --> 01:21:00.105
(crowd murmurs)

01:21:00.105 --> 01:21:04.568
And it's not that they're just
wanting to win an election,

01:21:04.568 --> 01:21:06.987
but they want to win history.

01:21:06.987 --> 01:21:08.446
They want to win the future.

01:21:11.658 --> 01:21:15.662
- [Crowd] Abortion is violence!
Abortion is oppression!

01:21:17.080 --> 01:21:21.501
- When I look back and I think
about people like myself,

01:21:21.501 --> 01:21:25.755
we didn't understand
that we were being used.

01:21:25.755 --> 01:21:30.760
- [Crowd] Abortion is oppression!
Abortion is oppression!

01:21:30.802 --> 01:21:33.263
- I think the genius
of the religious right

01:21:33.263 --> 01:21:38.268
has been in its ability to
persuade so many evangelicals

01:21:38.351 --> 01:21:43.356
that their movement was all
about opposition to abortion.

01:21:43.523 --> 01:21:44.774
- You cannot be a Christian

01:21:44.774 --> 01:21:46.443
and vote Democrat in this nation.

01:21:46.443 --> 01:21:49.696
They are God denying
demons that butcher babies

01:21:49.696 --> 01:21:50.989
and hate this nation.

01:21:53.199 --> 01:21:56.995
- [Reporter] The US Supreme
Court has overturned Roe v Wade,

01:21:56.995 --> 01:21:58.997
eliminating the constitutional right

01:21:58.997 --> 01:22:01.374
to an abortion nationwide.

01:22:01.374 --> 01:22:03.460
- [Crowd] Life won today!

01:22:03.460 --> 01:22:06.129
- This is a moment 50 years in the making.

01:22:06.129 --> 01:22:10.634
- [Crowd] Life won today! Life won today!

01:22:10.634 --> 01:22:13.720
Life won today! Life won today!

01:22:13.720 --> 01:22:16.056
- Once evangelicals become ascendant,

01:22:16.056 --> 01:22:20.018
then so do the questions
about white supremacy

01:22:20.018 --> 01:22:22.896
and questions about gender roles.

01:22:22.896 --> 01:22:25.148
♪ Oh, I wish I was in Dixie ♪

01:22:25.148 --> 01:22:27.484
♪ Hooray, Hooray ♪

01:22:27.484 --> 01:22:29.319
- [Lisa] I think we have to realize

01:22:29.319 --> 01:22:32.656
we have been in the middle of a civil war

01:22:32.656 --> 01:22:34.240
that really never ended.

01:22:34.240 --> 01:22:37.577
- [Crowd] Jews will not replace us.

01:22:37.577 --> 01:22:42.165
- [Lisa] And collateral
damage in war is acceptable.

01:22:43.333 --> 01:22:46.544
- [Reporter] Slamming to a
stop only after it hit a van-

01:22:46.544 --> 01:22:51.341
- That collateral damage is human beings.

01:22:51.341 --> 01:22:54.344
So when you say you are a one issue voter,

01:22:55.178 --> 01:22:57.347
that actually means that you're okay

01:22:57.347 --> 01:22:59.766
with the collateral damage of your vote.

01:22:59.766 --> 01:23:04.521
- Hey, if God can overturn Roe
v. Wade, he can do anything.

01:23:04.521 --> 01:23:05.355
Amen?

01:23:05.355 --> 01:23:06.523
- Should we pay
attention to the fact

01:23:06.523 --> 01:23:07.357
that they think

01:23:07.357 --> 01:23:09.693
there should be a death
penalty for homosexuality?

01:23:09.693 --> 01:23:12.028
- I will also take historic action

01:23:12.028 --> 01:23:15.115
to defeat the toxic
poison of gender ideology

01:23:15.115 --> 01:23:19.953
and restore the timeless truth
that God created two genders,

01:23:19.953 --> 01:23:22.539
male and female.

01:23:22.539 --> 01:23:23.790
- We're to the
point where they want

01:23:23.790 --> 01:23:25.792
to dismantle public education.

01:23:25.792 --> 01:23:29.087
- We're gonna end this so-called
Department of Education.

01:23:29.087 --> 01:23:30.964
We might have one desk, one person

01:23:30.964 --> 01:23:33.550
just to make sure
everyone's speaking English.

01:23:36.136 --> 01:23:37.762
- These things are happening.

01:23:37.762 --> 01:23:42.267
So that leaves me much more concerned

01:23:42.267 --> 01:23:44.060
about the other things

01:23:44.060 --> 01:23:46.479
that I thought were
likely to be impossible.

01:23:46.479 --> 01:23:49.107
- You ain't seen the insurrection yet.

01:23:49.107 --> 01:23:51.609
- [Lisa] They become not
just theological questions

01:23:51.609 --> 01:23:54.446
in your conservative Baptist
church down the street,

01:23:54.446 --> 01:23:56.489
but instead they become questions

01:23:56.489 --> 01:23:58.825
before the United States Supreme Court.

01:23:58.825 --> 01:24:01.411
- The conservatives
on this court have worked

01:24:01.411 --> 01:24:03.329
to turn back the clock on the rights

01:24:03.329 --> 01:24:06.583
of disenfranchised
citizens in this country,

01:24:06.583 --> 01:24:09.169
from abortion rights to
voting rights to the right

01:24:09.169 --> 01:24:11.337
to a fair and affordable education,

01:24:11.337 --> 01:24:15.175
to the right to openly express
your sexual orientation,

01:24:15.175 --> 01:24:16.509
even gender identity.

01:24:16.509 --> 01:24:19.179
- [Diana] What evangelicals
want is a supreme court

01:24:19.179 --> 01:24:22.599
that will privilege their
Christian interpretation

01:24:22.599 --> 01:24:23.933
of religious freedom

01:24:23.933 --> 01:24:26.186
over and against everybody else's freedom.

01:24:27.145 --> 01:24:28.354
- [Reporter] A landmark decision

01:24:28.354 --> 01:24:30.774
from a bitterly divided supreme court

01:24:30.774 --> 01:24:32.859
rejecting the use of race as we know it

01:24:32.859 --> 01:24:34.194
in college admissions.

01:24:34.194 --> 01:24:36.279
- [Reporter] The Texas
legislation is part of a wave

01:24:36.279 --> 01:24:38.656
of bills targeting transgender healthcare

01:24:38.656 --> 01:24:40.950
in red states across the country.

01:24:40.950 --> 01:24:42.786
- As our country starts to falter,

01:24:42.786 --> 01:24:45.121
bring us under one nation.

01:24:45.121 --> 01:24:47.540
- When people look ahead
to the next election

01:24:47.540 --> 01:24:49.626
or they look back at a previous election

01:24:49.626 --> 01:24:52.504
and they think in two or three
or maybe four year cycles,

01:24:52.504 --> 01:24:54.130
they're really missing the boat.

01:24:54.130 --> 01:24:57.300
These people literally talk about building

01:24:57.300 --> 01:25:02.305
a 200-year family plan
for how their dynasty

01:25:02.472 --> 01:25:04.808
is going to transform the culture

01:25:04.808 --> 01:25:07.519
and bring about the
application of God's law

01:25:07.519 --> 01:25:08.478
to civil society.

01:25:08.478 --> 01:25:11.147
They literally talk in 200-year plans.

01:25:14.025 --> 01:25:15.485
The goal is theocracy.

01:25:15.485 --> 01:25:19.572
They want to reinstitute biblical law

01:25:19.572 --> 01:25:21.366
into contemporary society.

01:25:22.742 --> 01:25:27.705
So many of them say that what
we have already is theocracy,

01:25:27.705 --> 01:25:30.542
and others say that
what needs to happen is

01:25:30.542 --> 01:25:35.046
the working out in
history of that framework,

01:25:35.046 --> 01:25:37.257
the application of biblical law

01:25:37.257 --> 01:25:39.425
to each of those spheres of authority.

01:25:40.844 --> 01:25:42.262
- [Kristen] Hence the 200-year plan.

01:25:42.262 --> 01:25:43.763
- Hence the 200-year plan.

01:25:44.514 --> 01:25:51.020
♪ We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord ♪

01:25:51.020 --> 01:25:57.777
♪ And we’ll know we are Christians,
by our love, by our love ♪

01:25:57.777 --> 01:26:03.575
♪ And they’ll know we are Christians by our love ♪

01:26:06.619 --> 01:26:08.371
- [Kristen] Big day doing this march.

01:26:08.371 --> 01:26:09.372
- [Lori] I know.

01:26:09.372 --> 01:26:11.291
- [Kristen] It's our first march together.

01:26:13.042 --> 01:26:15.128
- It's part of my growth.

01:26:15.128 --> 01:26:18.381
It's part of growing into being
the woman that I've become.

01:26:20.550 --> 01:26:22.260
And it's certainly part of my truth

01:26:24.554 --> 01:26:26.264
and it's been a part of your truth.

01:26:27.640 --> 01:26:29.475
- [Kristen] Were you
talking about the DNC?

01:26:29.475 --> 01:26:30.310
- Yeah.

01:26:30.310 --> 01:26:32.812
You know, and I was thinking
about that this morning

01:26:32.812 --> 01:26:37.275
because so many women have to have a DNC

01:26:37.275 --> 01:26:41.237
or they were just told that's
what's gonna happen to 'em.

01:26:41.237 --> 01:26:43.573
- [Kristen] I mean, I
didn't really have a choice.

01:26:43.573 --> 01:26:46.326
I was miscarrying and bleeding to death.

01:26:46.326 --> 01:26:48.244
- And a lot of people don't have a choice,

01:26:48.244 --> 01:26:52.957
but they don't understand
that it equates to, you know,

01:26:54.417 --> 01:26:55.668
what it equates to.

01:26:56.586 --> 01:26:57.921
- [Kristen] Medical abortion?

01:26:57.921 --> 01:26:58.755
- [Lori] Yes.

01:27:01.758 --> 01:27:03.176
- I mean, I was really uncomfortable

01:27:03.176 --> 01:27:06.596
when the nurse used that language,

01:27:06.596 --> 01:27:08.431
said I was having a medical abortion.

01:27:10.016 --> 01:27:11.976
- I'm really proud to do this with you.

01:27:12.852 --> 01:27:13.686
- [Kristen] You are?

01:27:13.686 --> 01:27:14.520
- Mm-hm.

01:27:16.814 --> 01:27:18.608
- There's a big difference between people

01:27:18.608 --> 01:27:21.861
who are raised in this tradition
from the very beginning,

01:27:21.861 --> 01:27:23.446
and people who convert to it.

01:27:25.031 --> 01:27:27.867
The people who convert to it have a self

01:27:27.867 --> 01:27:30.870
that predates that identification.

01:27:30.870 --> 01:27:34.624
Whereas people who have their
earliest identifications

01:27:34.624 --> 01:27:38.795
as part of this tradition find
it much, much harder to leave

01:27:38.795 --> 01:27:40.797
because they don't know
who they are anymore.

01:27:40.797 --> 01:27:42.840
They've lost all of their origins.

01:27:45.343 --> 01:27:46.511
- [Kristen] Do you still consider yourself

01:27:46.511 --> 01:27:47.720
to be an evangelical?

01:27:47.720 --> 01:27:49.555
- Oh boy.

01:27:49.555 --> 01:27:51.641
- [Kristen] Do you still consider yourself

01:27:51.641 --> 01:27:52.475
to be a Christian?

01:27:52.475 --> 01:27:53.768
- No. No.

01:27:54.310 --> 01:27:56.562
Do you still consider
yourself to be a Christian.

01:27:57.563 --> 01:27:59.565
- I do not consider myself a Christian.

01:28:01.150 --> 01:28:03.987
- I always clutch at
that question these days,

01:28:05.571 --> 01:28:08.992
because I'm well aware
of the general impression

01:28:08.992 --> 01:28:12.036
of evangelicalism in
the culture right now.

01:28:12.036 --> 01:28:15.373
And it's frankly, in my
judgment, not a pretty sight.

01:28:15.373 --> 01:28:16.499
- [Kristen] Do you still consider yourself

01:28:16.499 --> 01:28:18.668
to be an evangelical?

01:28:18.668 --> 01:28:20.336
- No, I'm no longer an evangelical.

01:28:20.336 --> 01:28:23.423
That word has been stolen and ruined.

01:28:23.423 --> 01:28:26.551
Evangelical means bearer of good news.

01:28:26.551 --> 01:28:30.054
The evangelicals now
are bearers of bad news.

01:28:30.054 --> 01:28:31.931
- I believe that God is love.

01:28:31.931 --> 01:28:36.352
I believe that Jesus embodied
that love and compassion

01:28:36.352 --> 01:28:41.065
in a particular, unique, and amazing way

01:28:41.065 --> 01:28:44.444
at a singular moment in human history.

01:28:44.444 --> 01:28:47.113
And that the memory of those stories

01:28:47.113 --> 01:28:50.908
and his presence in this
world was so powerful

01:28:50.908 --> 01:28:54.078
that it continues to shape
and serve as an example.

01:28:54.078 --> 01:28:56.789
And so yes, I'm a Christian.

01:28:56.789 --> 01:28:59.542
- So I say I'm a mediocre follower

01:28:59.542 --> 01:29:02.295
of a first century Jewish teacher.

01:29:02.295 --> 01:29:04.547
And that's all I can say.

01:29:04.547 --> 01:29:08.051
- When people say, how
can you be an evangelical

01:29:08.051 --> 01:29:09.552
and be a Black person?

01:29:11.262 --> 01:29:12.555
I say, are you kidding me?

01:29:12.555 --> 01:29:15.058
I go to the historic Black church

01:29:15.058 --> 01:29:20.063
because unlike the white
church, that biblicism,

01:29:20.396 --> 01:29:23.900
Cristocentrism, conversionism, activism

01:29:23.900 --> 01:29:27.653
was not tainted by white supremacy.

01:29:28.988 --> 01:29:30.615
- There we go.

01:29:30.615 --> 01:29:32.784
- [Chant Leader] Women,
you say, "Rise, women."

01:29:32.784 --> 01:29:37.789
- [Crowd] Rise, women! (cheering)

01:29:39.457 --> 01:29:42.251
- [Kristen] I no longer believe
I'm in need of a savior.

01:29:43.669 --> 01:29:45.838
- [Crowd] Women rights are human rights.

01:29:45.838 --> 01:29:48.466
- [Kristen] But my love for
Jesus has never changed.

01:29:50.593 --> 01:29:53.137
In fact, it was the deepening of my faith

01:29:53.137 --> 01:29:56.641
that shifted my beliefs around
abortion and gay rights.

01:29:59.018 --> 01:30:03.481
Despite that, the same community
I once found belonging in,

01:30:05.024 --> 01:30:07.860
the very people who taught
me who my enemies were,

01:30:10.947 --> 01:30:14.117
no doubt now consider
me to be their enemy.

01:30:15.993 --> 01:30:19.455
Because as the war for the
future of our country wages on,

01:30:21.207 --> 01:30:24.335
and as painful as the
loss of community is,

01:30:25.962 --> 01:30:28.798
the cost of loving Jesus for me

01:30:30.133 --> 01:30:32.176
is following him out the door

01:30:32.176 --> 01:30:35.096
of the white Evangelical church.