Fundi: The Story of Ella Baker

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FUNDI: THE STORY OF ELLA BAKER reveals the instrumental role that Ella Baker, a friend and advisor to Martin Luther King, played in shaping the American civil rights movement. The dynamic activist was affectionately known as the Fundi, a Swahili word for a person who passes skills from one generation to another.

By looking at the 1960s from the perspective of Baker, the 'godmother of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee,' FUNDI adds an essential understanding of the U.S. civil rights movement.

'FUNDI, the powerful film account of Ella Baker's contributions, can enrich us immeasurably, adding depth and texture to our understanding of an important part of our past, inspiring us with examples of lives lived fully and purposefully.' - Harvard Educational Review

'FUNDI fills a gap for those who know little of the history of the black struggle [and] is a compelling portrait of an extraordinary woman who has devoted her life to struggle and to the people who take part in it.' - Harry Belafonte

'FUNDI does exactly what Ella Baker does: it gives us the courage to act on our own - and to affect the future.' - Gloria Steinem

'FUNDI restores Ella Baker, the 'godmother of the SNCC,' to her place in the history of the civil rights movement. Rrecisely and elegantly executed... there's no pomposity, no false reverence - at least none that Baker herself can't cut right through.' - Pat Aufderheide, for In These Times

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Main credits

Baker, Ella (interviewee)
Abernathy, Ralph (interviewee)
Walker, Wyatt Tee (interviewee)
Current, Gloster B (interviewee)
Belafonte, Harry (on-screen presenter)
Grant, Joanne (film producer)
Grant, Joanne (film director)
Grant, Joanne (screenwriter)

Other credits

Cinematographer, Judy Irola; editor, Hortense Beveridge; musical direction and production, Bernice Johnson Reagon.

MARC Record See Worldcat record

Keywords

Joanne Grant; Joanne Grant; Ella; Baker; Video; Film; Documentary; Civil Rights; Martin Luther King; African-American; Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee; SNCC; "Fundi"; Icarus Films,doc,bio; history

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.980 align:middle line:90%

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Freedom is a constant struggle.

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Many of us who participated
in the movement of the 1960s

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took part in the struggle
alongside a woman

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named Ella Baker.

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Ella Baker is a
leader little known

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outside the circles of the
people with whom she organized.

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People who grew and developed
because she believed in them.

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In the decades of the
\'30s, \'40s, \'50s, and \'60s,

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Ella Baker worked with the main
thrust of the black movement,

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with all of the well known
civil rights leaders, mostly

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with the unknown people.

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Her life has always
been devoted to helping

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ordinary people in struggle
develop their own leadership

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potential.

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I Baker\'s message
is a simple one.

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It says, learn from others,
pass on what we learn,

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and stay in the struggle
for a free and just world.

00:01:03.670 --> 00:01:06.420 align:middle line:90%

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In many countries, skills
are passed on from generation

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to generation, by an
individual who teaches

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another, who teaches another.

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Mama Ella, no.

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Aunt Ella.

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No.

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She became, in my mind as I
thought about her, the Fundi.

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A Fundi is a word from Swahili.

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The person in a community
who masters a given craft.

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How old are you, darling?

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Eight.

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And he masters it coming
up through the community,

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with the help of the
community, with the help

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of some other people in the
community who have mastered it,

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and he plies his craft, and
teaches it to other people.

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And it goes on like
that, without ever

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being institutionalized.

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Ella Baker\'s life work
has spent 50 years

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of organizing the unorganized.

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Their natural resistance
is there already.

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There\'s no human being, I don\'t
care how undeveloped he is.

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No human being.

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I will be willing to say,
no human being relishes

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being sat upon and beaten,
as if he were an animal

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without any resistance.

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(SINGING) Oh yeah.

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Are you ready for your journey?

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Oh yeah.

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Do you want your freedom?

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(SINGING) And we\'ll be free.

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And we\'ll be free.

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Like we used to be.

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And we\'ll be free
like we used to be

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when good old George
moved in that white house,

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we\'ll be free like
we used to be.

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(SINGING) Black
and white together.

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Black and white together.

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They want to throw white
children and colored children

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in to the melting
pot of integration,

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through out of which will come
a conglomerated, mulatto mongrel

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class of people!

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Until the killing of black
men, black mothers\' sons,

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becomes as important to the rest
of the country as the killing

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of a white mother\'s son.

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[APPLAUSE]

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We who believe in freedom
cannot rest until this happens.

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The Negroes are moving
toward helping the communists

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and the one-worlders.

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This is symbolic, to me, of the
difference between 1940, when

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I started bumming
around, and in the \'60s.

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This is a prized picture,
as far as I\'m concerned.

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I\'ve seen the day when,
in all probability,

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the poor little devil\'s head
would have been cracked.

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But the movement had
developed to a point

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when cracking heads and
brutalizing had to be paid for.

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People here in
Montgomery had a sense

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of the value of organization.

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And I think when Mrs.
Parks was arrested,

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she was the perfect woman to
be arrested at that point,

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I think, because she had been
well known in the community

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to never harm, never raise
her voice against anyone.

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That in itself was more than
people could take very well.

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We expect the city bus
lines of Montgomery

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and the people of
Montgomery to continue

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to obey all segregation
laws, as written.

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And as long as I am
police commissioner

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of the city of Montgomery, I
intend to follow this course.

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They have the right
to protest far right,

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and we intend to
continue to broadcast

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until we receive justice.

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We will do it in
an orderly fashion.

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This is a non-violent protest.

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We are depending on moral
and spiritual forces,

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using the method of
passive resistance.

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The Montgomery bus boycott was
a catalyst of the black struggle

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of the \'60s.

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50,000 Negroes
walked for a year,

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rather than ride the
city\'s segregated buses.

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The young minister, Reverend
Martin Luther King Jr.,

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was elected president of
the Montgomery Improvement

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Association, and many
boycott mass meetings

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were held in his Dexter
Avenue Baptist Church.

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When the boycott
ended in victory,

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King and other ministers formed
a southwide organization,

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the Southern Christian
Leadership Conference.

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Dr. Martin Luther
King Jr. and I decided

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that we would make out of
the Montgomery Improvement

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Association a southwide
organization, that it would

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cover every phase, everywhere
bit of geography in the south,

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in order that we could
take our nonviolent

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movement to these communities
where segregation was still

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alive.

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And we chose Ella Baker to
serve as the first director

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of our organization.

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She knew what the
issues were, and she

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led SCLC in that direction.

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There was a loose
confederation of movements

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all across the South, for which
Ellis served as the liaison

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person, coordinating it with
the home office in Atlanta.

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And I think her
concern, which was also

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Dr. King\'s concern, that
these movements which

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flew the flag of an
affiliation with SCLC,

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were faithful to the
nonviolent credo.

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You know, that first
you try to negotiate,

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then you got the facts and so
forth, and then demonstrate

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and so forth.

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You know, the five or
six steps that we had.

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And it was a Herculean
task, because she

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had the administrative
task of keeping office on,

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and then servicing with having
to go physically to places

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where there was trouble
of one sort of another.

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And I do know of her traveling
widely across the south.

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And parallel to that, she had
some voter registrations drives

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going.

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Well, I was in Atlanta.

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I had gone down to set up
the office of the Southern

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Christian Leadership Conference.

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I had not planned to stay.

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Then the sit-ins started,
and, having traveled

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throughout the southern
area, I happened

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to have known a number of
people, and began to make

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calls to find out the
evaluation, [? what is was. ?]

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When the kids began to sit in,
and set, and set, and took it.

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None of us who were older,
who had a streak of humanity,

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could fail to find some
way of identifying with it,

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because we knew it
should take place.

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And maybe [INAUDIBLE],
my generation

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didn\'t have the nerve to
do it, maybe, but they did.

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Jailings of hundreds of
the protesting students

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shocked the nation.

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Ella Baker wrote that
the sit-ins meant more

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than the right to
eat a hamburger.

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The demonstration spotlighted
the moral implications

00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:06.920 align:middle line:90%
of racial discrimination.

00:09:06.920 --> 00:09:11.870 align:middle line:90%

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But black protest did
not begin in the \'60s.

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Earlier struggles
provided the groundwork.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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During the 1940s, Ella Baker
travelled for half of each year

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as field secretary and director
of branches of the NAACP,

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the leading civil rights
organization of the time.

00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:41.150 align:middle line:90%

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Ella Baker\'s task was to
stimulate local campaigns

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and help build membership.

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Her schedule for a
week in Georgia in 1942

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reads, Thursday, Savannah.

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Friday, Macon.

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Sunday, Columbus.

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Monday, Savannah mass meeting.

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Tuesday, Brunswick mass meeting.

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Wednesday Waycross
branch meeting.

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Thursday, Augusta mass meeting.

00:10:15.390 --> 00:10:16.420 align:middle line:90%
Friday, Athens.

00:10:16.420 --> 00:10:22.780 align:middle line:90%

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She resigned from the
staff of the NAACP

00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.870 align:middle line:84%
in 1946, because she
felt the organization was

00:10:29.870 --> 00:10:34.930 align:middle line:84%
too bureaucratic, but she
remained active in the NAACP,

00:10:34.930 --> 00:10:38.640 align:middle line:84%
and later became education
director and president

00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:40.860 align:middle line:90%
of its New York branch.

00:10:40.860 --> 00:10:44.250 align:middle line:84%
For the next decade, she
worked on community issues

00:10:44.250 --> 00:10:46.740 align:middle line:84%
in New York City,
and in the struggle

00:10:46.740 --> 00:10:49.670 align:middle line:90%
for school integration.

00:10:49.670 --> 00:10:52.410 align:middle line:84%
Ella Baker was my
immediate predecessor,

00:10:52.410 --> 00:10:57.390 align:middle line:84%
and I succeeded her
in September of 1946.

00:10:57.390 --> 00:11:05.010 align:middle line:84%
Ella was slow, deliberate,
stubborn, ponderous in speech,

00:11:05.010 --> 00:11:08.260 align:middle line:84%
and apparently tended
to procrastinate,

00:11:08.260 --> 00:11:11.610 align:middle line:84%
put things off,
or would do things

00:11:11.610 --> 00:11:14.190 align:middle line:90%
in her way in her own time.

00:11:14.190 --> 00:11:16.990 align:middle line:84%
All I do remember is
that, when she resigned,

00:11:16.990 --> 00:11:19.880 align:middle line:84%
she was greatly loved by
the rank and file of people

00:11:19.880 --> 00:11:22.150 align:middle line:84%
in the boondocks,
especially in the south,

00:11:22.150 --> 00:11:26.770 align:middle line:84%
and they asked her at the 1946
convention to make a statement.

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That was in Cincinnati.

00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:30.300 align:middle line:84%
Which she refused
to do, and I thought

00:11:30.300 --> 00:11:32.810 align:middle line:90%
that was very gracious of her.

00:11:32.810 --> 00:11:36.630 align:middle line:84%
She obviously had some
real reasons for quitting,

00:11:36.630 --> 00:11:42.010 align:middle line:84%
but she never expressed them
publicly to the rank and file.

00:11:42.010 --> 00:11:43.360 align:middle line:90%
I knew Ella in those days.

00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:47.680 align:middle line:84%
I knew what her
interests were in getting

00:11:47.680 --> 00:11:52.070 align:middle line:84%
the work of the NAACP more
related to the communities

00:11:52.070 --> 00:11:54.570 align:middle line:84%
where the people, where
the membership was.

00:11:54.570 --> 00:12:00.650 align:middle line:84%
My ego wasn\'t at
stake, at any point.

00:12:00.650 --> 00:12:03.610 align:middle line:84%
I had found a greater
sense of importance

00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:09.490 align:middle line:84%
by being a part of
those who were growing.

00:12:09.490 --> 00:12:16.440 align:middle line:84%
Having worked with and for
older, core leadership,

00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:21.360 align:middle line:84%
and the contrast between how
much those young people gave,

00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:26.290 align:middle line:84%
I developed a sort of
a special appreciation

00:12:26.290 --> 00:12:28.355 align:middle line:90%
for what those young people did.

00:12:28.355 --> 00:12:33.440 align:middle line:90%

00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:37.790 align:middle line:84%
I suggested there should
be some meeting in order

00:12:37.790 --> 00:12:42.475 align:middle line:84%
for those who had been involved
and those who were chafing

00:12:42.475 --> 00:12:45.810 align:middle line:84%
at the bit, as it were,
to be a part of it,

00:12:45.810 --> 00:12:49.680 align:middle line:84%
to meet and to have
some sense of direction.

00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:54.940 align:middle line:84%
And so the meeting was
held in Raleigh, at Shaw.

00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:57.670 align:middle line:84%
Ms. Baker, as the executive
director of the Southern

00:12:57.670 --> 00:13:02.490 align:middle line:84%
Christian Leadership Conference,
was the main organizer

00:13:02.490 --> 00:13:06.600 align:middle line:84%
of the Eastern Weekend
conference in 1960

00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:09.330 align:middle line:84%
that led to the formation of the
Student Nonviolent Coordinating

00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:10.570 align:middle line:90%
Committee.

00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:15.400 align:middle line:84%
She sent out the appeal to
various student groups--

00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:19.740 align:middle line:84%
And helped us resist
pressure from the NAACP, who

00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:22.430 align:middle line:84%
wanted us to become
NAACP youth chapters

00:13:22.430 --> 00:13:24.930 align:middle line:84%
at the various colleges where
there were sit-in groups,

00:13:24.930 --> 00:13:27.120 align:middle line:84%
from CORE, who
wanted us to become

00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.270 align:middle line:84%
CORE chapters at
the various places

00:13:29.270 --> 00:13:32.620 align:middle line:84%
where all these student
sit-in groups were located,

00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:38.220 align:middle line:84%
and from SCLC, who wanted us
to become a youth wing of SCLC.

00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:41.220 align:middle line:84%
The ministers from the
Southern Christian Leadership

00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:47.780 align:middle line:84%
Conference, and some others,
they felt sort of left out,

00:13:47.780 --> 00:13:51.910 align:middle line:84%
and they called a
gathering at the home

00:13:51.910 --> 00:13:57.820 align:middle line:84%
of the president of the
university, and I attended it.

00:13:57.820 --> 00:14:01.440 align:middle line:84%
I don\'t know that they had
planned for me to attend it,

00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.030 align:middle line:84%
but naturally, I
felt somebody ought

00:14:04.030 --> 00:14:09.010 align:middle line:84%
to be there, because I didn\'t
know what was going down.

00:14:09.010 --> 00:14:16.240 align:middle line:84%
And they were more concerned
about how they could literally

00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.100 align:middle line:90%
attach the young to them.

00:14:20.100 --> 00:14:23.490 align:middle line:84%
They didn\'t want to lose them,
because this was something new.

00:14:23.490 --> 00:14:26.600 align:middle line:90%
This was vitality, I suppose.

00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.750 align:middle line:84%
She insisted that we had
something special, that

00:14:29.750 --> 00:14:33.870 align:middle line:84%
was special to us, I think
both because of our age,

00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:37.550 align:middle line:84%
and because, when these other
groups had been relatively

00:14:37.550 --> 00:14:39.460 align:middle line:84%
quiet, with the
exception of CORE,

00:14:39.460 --> 00:14:43.790 align:middle line:84%
we had spontaneously broken
out protest in Greensboro,

00:14:43.790 --> 00:14:46.640 align:middle line:84%
and in Nashville, in
Atlanta, and Birmingham,

00:14:46.640 --> 00:14:48.480 align:middle line:84%
and she impressed
upon us the necessity

00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.880 align:middle line:84%
to keep this special
thing separate.

00:14:50.880 --> 00:14:51.610 align:middle line:90%
My role.

00:14:51.610 --> 00:14:56.300 align:middle line:84%
I had always assumed that
my role was to facilitate,

00:14:56.300 --> 00:15:00.110 align:middle line:84%
which did not
involve leadership.

00:15:00.110 --> 00:15:05.390 align:middle line:84%
I didn\'t have the need for
being considered a leader.

00:15:05.390 --> 00:15:10.480 align:middle line:84%
And I think that got over to
them in the original meeting,

00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.490 align:middle line:84%
because they knew
that the meeting came

00:15:13.490 --> 00:15:16.280 align:middle line:90%
into being because I did it.

00:15:16.280 --> 00:15:19.800 align:middle line:84%
But they also saw
that I made no effort

00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:25.290 align:middle line:84%
to become a leading
figure in the meetings.

00:15:25.290 --> 00:15:28.700 align:middle line:84%
And so they began to have
that kind of confidence,

00:15:28.700 --> 00:15:30.220 align:middle line:84%
and so they felt
they could trust

00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:36.870 align:middle line:84%
me to maybe further the
matter of their independence.

00:15:36.870 --> 00:15:39.252 align:middle line:84%
And this was
difficult, of course,

00:15:39.252 --> 00:15:42.710 align:middle line:84%
for some who had been accustomed
to feeling that these are

00:15:42.710 --> 00:15:46.470 align:middle line:84%
children of my church, and
these are our children,

00:15:46.470 --> 00:15:48.276 align:middle line:90%
and we\'re the older ones.

00:15:48.276 --> 00:15:49.960 align:middle line:84%
And I told them I
would not be a party

00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.410 align:middle line:90%
to that kind of bargaining.

00:15:52.410 --> 00:15:55.800 align:middle line:84%
Our original approach was
always to attack the ministers

00:15:55.800 --> 00:15:58.750 align:middle line:84%
as Uncle Toms, and sell
outs, and everything else,

00:15:58.750 --> 00:16:01.130 align:middle line:84%
and then I think one of the
major contributions she made

00:16:01.130 --> 00:16:04.730 align:middle line:84%
was to help us see
them in some way that

00:16:04.730 --> 00:16:08.570 align:middle line:84%
was a positive respect,
and some method by which we

00:16:08.570 --> 00:16:11.800 align:middle line:84%
could coordinate our efforts
and be non-threatening to them.

00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:14.740 align:middle line:90%
Ms. Baker knew who she was.

00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:16.220 align:middle line:90%
She knew her role.

00:16:16.220 --> 00:16:20.050 align:middle line:84%
She knew and understood
the work, and our mission,

00:16:20.050 --> 00:16:22.290 align:middle line:90%
and she knew what she was doing.

00:16:22.290 --> 00:16:25.870 align:middle line:84%
And somehow, when
this cadre of folk got

00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:30.030 align:middle line:84%
put together being
almost all-male,

00:16:30.030 --> 00:16:34.530 align:middle line:84%
that she saw herself
being not respected

00:16:34.530 --> 00:16:36.320 align:middle line:84%
for the executive
role that she could

00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.623 align:middle line:84%
play, for the programmatic
role that she could play.

00:16:38.623 --> 00:16:43.610 align:middle line:84%
Ella was a forceful woman, and
a speaker with all the talent

00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:44.480 align:middle line:90%
that they had.

00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:46.540 align:middle line:84%
She had too much
talent to be accepted

00:16:46.540 --> 00:16:48.830 align:middle line:84%
at that time among
a bunch of preachers

00:16:48.830 --> 00:16:52.530 align:middle line:84%
who were never used to any
women in their inner counsels.

00:16:52.530 --> 00:16:55.497 align:middle line:84%
But remember, she
was a peer of theirs.

00:16:55.497 --> 00:16:56.660 align:middle line:90%
That\'s right.

00:16:56.660 --> 00:16:58.030 align:middle line:90%
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:16:58.030 --> 00:17:00.090 align:middle line:84%
And they were not
ready for that.

00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:03.210 align:middle line:84%
She was about raising
hard questions, outside

00:17:03.210 --> 00:17:06.517 align:middle line:84%
of their normal ambit,
and we are it up.

00:17:06.517 --> 00:17:11.770 align:middle line:84%
Well, I mean, I think that it\'s
important that we recognize--

00:17:11.770 --> 00:17:15.950 align:middle line:84%
Ella Baker resigned
from SCLC in 1960

00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:19.460 align:middle line:84%
to work with the
protesting students.

00:17:19.460 --> 00:17:24.010 align:middle line:84%
My memories of her are always a
very, very sympathetic person,

00:17:24.010 --> 00:17:27.560 align:middle line:84%
and a person who wanted to help
as much as she could, as much

00:17:27.560 --> 00:17:30.600 align:middle line:84%
as the organizational
constraints would let her.

00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:33.310 align:middle line:84%
At the same time, we had heard
that this guy, Wyatt Tee Walker

00:17:33.310 --> 00:17:34.600 align:middle line:90%
was coming to town.

00:17:34.600 --> 00:17:35.470 align:middle line:90%
Her successor.

00:17:35.470 --> 00:17:38.170 align:middle line:84%
He was a minister
and she wasn\'t.

00:17:38.170 --> 00:17:40.500 align:middle line:90%
He was a man and she wasn\'t.

00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:43.240 align:middle line:84%
But he came being touted
as sort of an efficiency

00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:44.430 align:middle line:90%
man, a management man.

00:17:44.430 --> 00:17:47.970 align:middle line:84%
The guy was going to put
SCLC on a going basis.

00:17:47.970 --> 00:17:51.150 align:middle line:84%
And I guess they just
didn\'t like her style.

00:17:51.150 --> 00:17:55.560 align:middle line:84%
Now, this was before the
day of women\'s liberation,

00:17:55.560 --> 00:17:59.902 align:middle line:84%
and here was Ella, a veteran
civil rights activist,

00:17:59.902 --> 00:18:06.070 align:middle line:84%
a female with the
task of coordinating

00:18:06.070 --> 00:18:12.250 align:middle line:84%
the activities of a group made
up predominantly of preachers.

00:18:12.250 --> 00:18:16.505 align:middle line:84%
When I came some years later
to be the executive for SCLC,

00:18:16.505 --> 00:18:20.210 align:middle line:90%
I had the same difficulties.

00:18:20.210 --> 00:18:22.815 align:middle line:84%
The only edge I had was
that I was one of the group,

00:18:22.815 --> 00:18:26.360 align:middle line:84%
and knew how to circumvent
some of the things,

00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:30.010 align:middle line:84%
or how to smooth things the
right way, whereas a layperson

00:18:30.010 --> 00:18:33.490 align:middle line:84%
would not have
accessible to them

00:18:33.490 --> 00:18:37.230 align:middle line:84%
these little nuances of how to
handle the so-called preacher

00:18:37.230 --> 00:18:37.950 align:middle line:90%
ego.

00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:41.380 align:middle line:84%
To have a woman organize
a church is difficult.

00:18:41.380 --> 00:18:44.780 align:middle line:84%
But it is far more
difficult, especially we\'re

00:18:44.780 --> 00:18:45.760 align:middle line:90%
talking 20 years ago.

00:18:45.760 --> 00:18:50.300 align:middle line:84%
It\'s far more difficult if
that woman is not ministry.

00:18:50.300 --> 00:18:54.600 align:middle line:84%
Or, in fact, is not
only not ministry,

00:18:54.600 --> 00:18:58.870 align:middle line:84%
but does not show a real
affirmation to religious,

00:18:58.870 --> 00:19:01.100 align:middle line:90%
through to the church.

00:19:01.100 --> 00:19:06.830 align:middle line:84%
I was difficult. I
wasn\'t an easy pushover,

00:19:06.830 --> 00:19:10.090 align:middle line:90%
because I could talk back a lot.

00:19:10.090 --> 00:19:12.720 align:middle line:90%
Not only could, but did.

00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.370 align:middle line:84%
And so that was
frustrating to those

00:19:15.370 --> 00:19:18.070 align:middle line:84%
who had never had certain
kinds of experiences.

00:19:18.070 --> 00:19:19.640 align:middle line:84%
It\'s a strange
world, strange thing

00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:25.110 align:middle line:84%
that men who were supposed
to be men around town,

00:19:25.110 --> 00:19:27.780 align:middle line:84%
if they hadn\'t ever
had a woman who

00:19:27.780 --> 00:19:31.810 align:middle line:84%
knew how to say no in
no uncertain terms,

00:19:31.810 --> 00:19:34.650 align:middle line:84%
they didn\'t know
what to do sometimes.

00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:36.220 align:middle line:84%
and especially if
you could talk.

00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:40.170 align:middle line:84%
You know, if you talked loud
and had a voice like mine, see,

00:19:40.170 --> 00:19:42.805 align:middle line:84%
you could hear me a mile
sometimes, if necessary.

00:19:42.805 --> 00:19:45.480 align:middle line:90%

00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.150 align:middle line:84%
One of the people with whom Ella
Baker worked in the early NAACP

00:19:49.150 --> 00:19:53.330 align:middle line:84%
days was native white
Alabaman, Virginia Durr.

00:19:53.330 --> 00:19:57.660 align:middle line:84%
And Mrs. Lewis was on the
way to a meeting in Virginia.

00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:01.000 align:middle line:90%
She was killed in an accident.

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.060 align:middle line:84%
And this was a funeral
at the First Baptist

00:20:03.060 --> 00:20:04.700 align:middle line:90%
Church in Montgomery.

00:20:04.700 --> 00:20:06.480 align:middle line:90%
Ella, you remember that.

00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.550 align:middle line:84%
I went with a group of
United Church Women,

00:20:09.550 --> 00:20:12.080 align:middle line:84%
and we were the only white
people in the church,

00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:14.230 align:middle line:84%
and the church had
a lot of police

00:20:14.230 --> 00:20:17.350 align:middle line:84%
around it to take out
names and addresses.

00:20:17.350 --> 00:20:18.530 align:middle line:90%
They sure were.

00:20:18.530 --> 00:20:21.890 align:middle line:84%
So I went and sat as
close to Ella as I could,

00:20:21.890 --> 00:20:25.100 align:middle line:84%
because I felt that nobody
would ever arrest Ella.

00:20:25.100 --> 00:20:26.420 align:middle line:90%
Why?

00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:28.540 align:middle line:84%
Well, Ella, you were a
rather very imposing figure

00:20:28.540 --> 00:20:29.380 align:middle line:90%
in those days.

00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:32.940 align:middle line:84%
You still are, but, you
know, you rather stood out.

00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:35.380 align:middle line:84%
And I felt like, as long as
I was sitting close to you,

00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:36.671 align:middle line:90%
I wasn\'t going to get arrested.

00:20:36.671 --> 00:20:38.440 align:middle line:90%
I think it was my big voice.

00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.516 align:middle line:84%
No, I think it was your
commanding and regal manner.

00:20:41.516 --> 00:20:43.820 align:middle line:90%
Good lord.

00:20:43.820 --> 00:20:46.620 align:middle line:84%
You were a rather very
imposing figure in those days.

00:20:46.620 --> 00:20:47.490 align:middle line:90%
You still are.

00:20:47.490 --> 00:20:52.050 align:middle line:84%
I grew up under a rather
strict, disciplinary mother,

00:20:52.050 --> 00:20:55.180 align:middle line:90%
and you didn\'t talk back to her.

00:20:55.180 --> 00:20:57.260 align:middle line:84%
Didn\'t matter what
your opinion was.

00:20:57.260 --> 00:20:59.250 align:middle line:84%
You didn\'t sit down
and share opinions.

00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:03.600 align:middle line:84%
My father, I could sit down
and have an interchange.

00:21:03.600 --> 00:21:06.510 align:middle line:84%
So having grown up that
way, and having seen--

00:21:06.510 --> 00:21:09.060 align:middle line:84%
I had been to
boarding school also,

00:21:09.060 --> 00:21:11.780 align:middle line:84%
and I had to fight
for such simple things

00:21:11.780 --> 00:21:17.790 align:middle line:84%
as the right of young women
to walk across the campus

00:21:17.790 --> 00:21:20.010 align:middle line:84%
with young men,
which is in college.

00:21:20.010 --> 00:21:21.010 align:middle line:90%
That\'s in Shaw.

00:21:21.010 --> 00:21:22.870 align:middle line:90%
In Shaw.

00:21:22.870 --> 00:21:25.580 align:middle line:84%
My mother wanted
me to be a teacher,

00:21:25.580 --> 00:21:29.900 align:middle line:84%
but I was determined to be
free to express an opinion.

00:21:29.900 --> 00:21:32.890 align:middle line:84%
I had seen people
who had gone out

00:21:32.890 --> 00:21:36.210 align:middle line:84%
to teach, that they
didn\'t take any stance,

00:21:36.210 --> 00:21:40.350 align:middle line:84%
because they were afraid of
losing their jobs, you see.

00:21:40.350 --> 00:21:43.670 align:middle line:90%
They had no opinion on anything.

00:21:43.670 --> 00:21:48.730 align:middle line:84%
But I grew up with
grandparents who talked.

00:21:48.730 --> 00:21:51.030 align:middle line:84%
My mother\'s father
was a minister,

00:21:51.030 --> 00:21:54.920 align:middle line:84%
and he was very laconic
most of the time,

00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:56.560 align:middle line:90%
but he talked a lot to me.

00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:01.100 align:middle line:84%
I used to ride around with
him in his horse and buggies,

00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:04.720 align:middle line:84%
and I was always ready
to talk to people.

00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:08.480 align:middle line:84%
My grandfather was a
tall, very black man, who

00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.690 align:middle line:90%
was very proud of being black.

00:22:11.690 --> 00:22:15.790 align:middle line:84%
Almost conceited, because
he was an ex-slave,

00:22:15.790 --> 00:22:21.380 align:middle line:84%
and my grandmother was also a
slave on the same plantation.

00:22:21.380 --> 00:22:26.840 align:middle line:84%
He was on the darker
side of the marriage.

00:22:26.840 --> 00:22:29.640 align:middle line:84%
The young mistress,
she had selected

00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:32.830 align:middle line:84%
a man whom we knew
as Uncle Carter, who

00:22:32.830 --> 00:22:38.295 align:middle line:84%
was light like grandma, and she
wanted grandma to marry Carter,

00:22:38.295 --> 00:22:41.040 align:middle line:90%
and grandma refused.

00:22:41.040 --> 00:22:45.200 align:middle line:84%
And I think there had to
be a slight confrontation

00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:49.320 align:middle line:84%
between the mistress, the
young mistress, and the master

00:22:49.320 --> 00:22:51.800 align:middle line:90%
who was grandma\'s father.

00:22:51.800 --> 00:22:57.970 align:middle line:84%
So as punishment, they moved
her from being a house maid,

00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:02.530 align:middle line:90%
and made her a field hand.

00:23:02.530 --> 00:23:05.360 align:middle line:84%
Of course, grandma had
the fighting-type spirit,

00:23:05.360 --> 00:23:07.730 align:middle line:90%
so she would not be broken.

00:23:07.730 --> 00:23:11.480 align:middle line:84%
She was a very strong
and beautiful girl still.

00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:13.560 align:middle line:90%
There was pride in blackness.

00:23:13.560 --> 00:23:19.800 align:middle line:84%
In fact, even though some of
the black people who were not

00:23:19.800 --> 00:23:23.310 align:middle line:84%
as black as grandfather
and I turned out to be,

00:23:23.310 --> 00:23:26.760 align:middle line:84%
they still wanted to be
identified with black.

00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:29.800 align:middle line:90%

00:23:29.800 --> 00:23:35.700 align:middle line:84%
Grandpa, after emancipation,
perhaps one of his first acts

00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:39.010 align:middle line:84%
was to contract
for a large segment

00:23:39.010 --> 00:23:43.430 align:middle line:84%
of the land that lies
across the Roanoke River

00:23:43.430 --> 00:23:45.375 align:middle line:90%
and was part of the plantation.

00:23:45.375 --> 00:23:47.450 align:middle line:84%
It was one of those
slaveholders, you know,

00:23:47.450 --> 00:23:50.920 align:middle line:84%
that owned all the land
from here to there.

00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:56.640 align:middle line:84%
My grandfather divided it
into plots of various sizes,

00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:02.240 align:middle line:84%
and there was a
long line of farms,

00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.624 align:middle line:84%
one right after the other,
and there were people on them

00:24:05.624 --> 00:24:08.094 align:middle line:90%
who were members of the family.

00:24:08.094 --> 00:24:11.058 align:middle line:84%
The extended family of
cousins, uncles, et cetera.

00:24:11.058 --> 00:24:19.090 align:middle line:90%

00:24:19.090 --> 00:24:22.240 align:middle line:84%
I came out of a
kind of family that

00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.620 align:middle line:84%
was concerned
about people, and I

00:24:25.620 --> 00:24:28.480 align:middle line:84%
had developed a certain
curiosity about that

00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:30.345 align:middle line:90%
which I did not know.

00:24:30.345 --> 00:24:34.420 align:middle line:84%
And although I\'d been in
boarding school at Shaw

00:24:34.420 --> 00:24:39.610 align:middle line:84%
for eight years, it was not the
kind of political discussions

00:24:39.610 --> 00:24:44.170 align:middle line:84%
that took place on the street
corners of New York, uptown,

00:24:44.170 --> 00:24:47.320 align:middle line:84%
downtown, so I would
go to any meeting,

00:24:47.320 --> 00:24:52.740 align:middle line:84%
anywhere, that seemed to be
saying something that I didn\'t

00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:54.300 align:middle line:90%
know too much about.

00:24:54.300 --> 00:24:57.510 align:middle line:84%
In New York City in
the 1930s, Ella Baker

00:24:57.510 --> 00:25:01.850 align:middle line:84%
worked in consumer
education for the WPA.

00:25:01.850 --> 00:25:07.740 align:middle line:84%
She married fellow Shaw
University student TJ Roberts.

00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:11.520 align:middle line:84%
Ella Baker maintained contact
with her extended family,

00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:15.750 align:middle line:84%
many of whom, like cousins
Bertha and [? Macy O\'Hearst ?],

00:25:15.750 --> 00:25:17.510 align:middle line:90%
also took part in the movement.

00:25:17.510 --> 00:25:29.342 align:middle line:90%

00:25:29.342 --> 00:25:30.328 align:middle line:90%
Let\'s thank God.

00:25:30.328 --> 00:25:33.286 align:middle line:84%
Let\'s say God is good, and
we thank him for this food.

00:25:33.286 --> 00:25:36.330 align:middle line:90%
By his hands must all be fed.

00:25:36.330 --> 00:25:39.410 align:middle line:84%
Give us the Lord,
our daily bread.

00:25:39.410 --> 00:25:44.750 align:middle line:84%
(SINGING) God is
great and God is good.

00:25:44.750 --> 00:25:50.452 align:middle line:90%
Let us thank him for this food.

00:25:50.452 --> 00:25:55.070 align:middle line:90%
By thy hands must all be fed.

00:25:55.070 --> 00:26:01.560 align:middle line:90%
Give us, Lord, our daily bread.

00:26:01.560 --> 00:26:08.130 align:middle line:90%
Give us, Lord, our daily bread.

00:26:08.130 --> 00:26:08.630 align:middle line:90%
Amen.

00:26:08.630 --> 00:26:29.081 align:middle line:90%

00:26:29.081 --> 00:26:31.045 align:middle line:84%
I\'m not going to
take him [INAUDIBLE].

00:26:31.045 --> 00:26:35.490 align:middle line:84%
Trying to make sure
there\'s no reflection.

00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:37.550 align:middle line:90%
Did you hear when he came in?

00:26:37.550 --> 00:26:40.490 align:middle line:84%
Ella Baker raised her niece,
Jacqueline Brockington,

00:26:40.490 --> 00:26:41.970 align:middle line:90%
from the age of nine.

00:26:41.970 --> 00:26:45.210 align:middle line:84%
Well, she was
constantly busy, and you

00:26:45.210 --> 00:26:46.950 align:middle line:84%
had to learn how to
be busy with her,

00:26:46.950 --> 00:26:49.780 align:middle line:84%
so that you could
be in her presence,

00:26:49.780 --> 00:26:52.850 align:middle line:84%
so I think that really
taught me a lot,

00:26:52.850 --> 00:26:57.890 align:middle line:84%
and I think it, really,
basically decided upon my going

00:26:57.890 --> 00:27:01.410 align:middle line:84%
into teaching was because she
worked with people that I sort

00:27:01.410 --> 00:27:04.100 align:middle line:90%
of picked that type profession.

00:27:04.100 --> 00:27:05.761 align:middle line:90%
Don\'t had me that.

00:27:05.761 --> 00:27:09.128 align:middle line:84%
Well, I have eight periods
a day, with 40 minutes,

00:27:09.128 --> 00:27:10.360 align:middle line:90%
and it\'s--

00:27:10.360 --> 00:27:11.280 align:middle line:90%
It goes, huh.

00:27:11.280 --> 00:27:13.340 align:middle line:90%
Just sitting there listening.

00:27:13.340 --> 00:27:15.151 align:middle line:84%
And you\'re tired
of listening, huh?

00:27:15.151 --> 00:27:15.650 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:27:15.650 --> 00:27:17.775 align:middle line:84%
Well, you haven\'t been in
here 20 minutes, darling,

00:27:17.775 --> 00:27:20.631 align:middle line:84%
so you can\'t blame it on
us right now, can you?

00:27:20.631 --> 00:27:21.130 align:middle line:90%
No.

00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:24.540 align:middle line:90%
I\'m tired of school.

00:27:24.540 --> 00:27:26.340 align:middle line:90%
You ready to graduate?

00:27:26.340 --> 00:27:27.320 align:middle line:90%
No.

00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:29.645 align:middle line:84%
Well, what do you
plan to do about it?

00:27:29.645 --> 00:27:32.763 align:middle line:84%
Or is that something maybe
you and I should discuss in

00:27:32.763 --> 00:27:33.425 align:middle line:90%
private?

00:27:33.425 --> 00:27:34.750 align:middle line:90%
I can\'t do anything about it.

00:27:34.750 --> 00:27:36.416 align:middle line:84%
You mean you got a
situation around here

00:27:36.416 --> 00:27:38.340 align:middle line:90%
that you can\'t handle?

00:27:38.340 --> 00:27:39.683 align:middle line:90%
Well, you need help.

00:27:39.683 --> 00:27:41.535 align:middle line:90%
Nobody can handle it.

00:27:41.535 --> 00:27:43.850 align:middle line:90%
Nobody can handle it?

00:27:43.850 --> 00:27:46.310 align:middle line:84%
Well, what kind of
situation is that?

00:27:46.310 --> 00:27:51.390 align:middle line:84%
I never did feel the rapport
with the young SNCC kids

00:27:51.390 --> 00:27:56.410 align:middle line:84%
that you did, because I felt
that they were extremely

00:27:56.410 --> 00:28:01.070 align:middle line:84%
disorganized, and
extremely militant,

00:28:01.070 --> 00:28:05.630 align:middle line:84%
but I also felt they
were extremely wild.

00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:10.020 align:middle line:84%
And I think that you got on
with them so well was always

00:28:10.020 --> 00:28:11.250 align:middle line:90%
a surprise to me.

00:28:11.250 --> 00:28:14.970 align:middle line:84%
Maybe some of us were
willing to forego manners

00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:19.550 align:middle line:84%
to replace the lack of militancy
that we had found in the old.

00:28:19.550 --> 00:28:22.397 align:middle line:84%
I agree with you, but the
thing is, I wanted both.

00:28:22.397 --> 00:28:23.730 align:middle line:90%
Well, you can\'t have everything.

00:28:23.730 --> 00:28:24.230 align:middle line:90%
I know.

00:28:24.230 --> 00:28:26.965 align:middle line:90%
Well, I settled for militancy.

00:28:26.965 --> 00:28:29.040 align:middle line:84%
But the thing was,
you\'ve got to understand

00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:33.041 align:middle line:84%
that I expected young people,
black and white, to be polite

00:28:33.041 --> 00:28:33.540 align:middle line:90%
to me.

00:28:33.540 --> 00:28:34.760 align:middle line:90%
I was older than they were.

00:28:34.760 --> 00:28:37.515 align:middle line:84%
So was I, but I was--
I guess maybe it\'s

00:28:37.515 --> 00:28:41.070 align:middle line:84%
because I didn\'t have a
good sense about my age.

00:28:41.070 --> 00:28:43.340 align:middle line:84%
I hadn\'t ever exposed
my age, and being--

00:28:43.340 --> 00:28:45.890 align:middle line:84%
Well, whatever you did,
you did a wonderful job,

00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:49.090 align:middle line:84%
because I think that SNCC
was the sort of cutting

00:28:49.090 --> 00:28:51.820 align:middle line:84%
edge of the whole end
of segregation fight.

00:28:51.820 --> 00:28:52.400 align:middle line:90%
It was.

00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.580 align:middle line:84%
And because the
older people, you

00:28:54.580 --> 00:28:56.310 align:middle line:90%
see-- I\'d worked NAACP before.

00:28:56.310 --> 00:28:57.510 align:middle line:90%
You know that.

00:28:57.510 --> 00:29:01.179 align:middle line:84%
And they were tied
up in legalism.

00:29:01.179 --> 00:29:01.720 align:middle line:90%
That\'s right.

00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.360 align:middle line:84%
And, see, legalism by
itself, I don\'t think you

00:29:04.360 --> 00:29:07.780 align:middle line:84%
and I would have any argument
about its ineffectiveness

00:29:07.780 --> 00:29:08.889 align:middle line:90%
by itself.

00:29:08.889 --> 00:29:09.430 align:middle line:90%
That\'s right.

00:29:09.430 --> 00:29:13.840 align:middle line:84%
And if people aren\'t
willing to take whatever

00:29:13.840 --> 00:29:18.110 align:middle line:84%
step is necessary to
move beyond a given spot,

00:29:18.110 --> 00:29:20.620 align:middle line:90%
then you\'re stuck.

00:29:20.620 --> 00:29:22.840 align:middle line:84%
And there were
these youngsters who

00:29:22.840 --> 00:29:26.550 align:middle line:84%
not only were willing to
take the kinds of stands

00:29:26.550 --> 00:29:30.360 align:middle line:84%
that I might have-- stands
that I might have suggested,

00:29:30.360 --> 00:29:32.290 align:middle line:84%
but they had gone
even beyond that.

00:29:32.290 --> 00:29:54.760 align:middle line:90%

00:29:54.760 --> 00:29:57.980 align:middle line:84%
1963 was the year of
mass demonstrations

00:29:57.980 --> 00:30:00.120 align:middle line:84%
which reached their
height in Birmingham.

00:30:00.120 --> 00:30:03.660 align:middle line:84%
Victories had been one in the
desegregation of lunch counters

00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:05.980 align:middle line:90%
and public transportation.

00:30:05.980 --> 00:30:08.410 align:middle line:84%
Now black people
were seeking an end

00:30:08.410 --> 00:30:12.210 align:middle line:84%
to racial discrimination
in jobs and the ballot.

00:30:12.210 --> 00:30:14.230 align:middle line:90%
Thousands took to the streets.

00:30:14.230 --> 00:30:15.650 align:middle line:90%
Thousands were arrested.

00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:21.130 align:middle line:84%
Well, Birmingham had been known
to be a tough city for blacks,

00:30:21.130 --> 00:30:24.620 align:middle line:84%
and yet perhaps you had
another unique feature.

00:30:24.620 --> 00:30:28.500 align:middle line:84%
You had more blacks who
were in organization,

00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:31.900 align:middle line:84%
who were members of
unions and the like,

00:30:31.900 --> 00:30:34.260 align:middle line:84%
because they had
been coal miners,

00:30:34.260 --> 00:30:36.580 align:middle line:84%
and whatever else
they worked at.

00:30:36.580 --> 00:30:39.990 align:middle line:84%
And you also had good
leadership in the organization

00:30:39.990 --> 00:30:41.550 align:middle line:90%
like the NAACP.

00:30:41.550 --> 00:30:45.412 align:middle line:84%
For seven years before Dr.
King and SCLC were invited

00:30:45.412 --> 00:30:50.550 align:middle line:84%
into Birmingham, we had
held and won most all

00:30:50.550 --> 00:30:52.920 align:middle line:84%
of the legal
victories, and we had

00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.370 align:middle line:84%
done a lot of things then
to break down segregation.

00:30:56.370 --> 00:30:59.300 align:middle line:84%
And these victories were,
for the most part, Pyrrhic

00:30:59.300 --> 00:31:01.120 align:middle line:84%
because you\'d win a
victory, and yet you\'d

00:31:01.120 --> 00:31:03.560 align:middle line:90%
see no fruits from it.

00:31:03.560 --> 00:31:06.140 align:middle line:84%
We invited Dr.
King and SCLC board

00:31:06.140 --> 00:31:09.815 align:middle line:84%
to come together and let
us confront the system.

00:31:09.815 --> 00:31:15.460 align:middle line:84%
Of course, out of that came the
massive civil rights movement

00:31:15.460 --> 00:31:17.228 align:middle line:90%
as we know about it.

00:31:17.228 --> 00:31:21.130 align:middle line:84%
The demonstrations in
which nearly 4,000 people

00:31:21.130 --> 00:31:25.070 align:middle line:90%
were arrested and in hail.

00:31:25.070 --> 00:31:27.540 align:middle line:84%
even Dr. King went to
jail on Good Friday,

00:31:27.540 --> 00:31:30.960 align:middle line:84%
you know, but it was
Birmingham, really,

00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:32.907 align:middle line:84%
that sort of made
this nation come

00:31:32.907 --> 00:31:34.115 align:middle line:90%
to grips with its conscience.

00:31:34.115 --> 00:31:38.950 align:middle line:90%

00:31:38.950 --> 00:31:42.480 align:middle line:84%
We will take whatever steps
are necessary to preserve

00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.240 align:middle line:90%
segregation in the south.

00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.610 align:middle line:84%
Been victims of
two mobs, and had

00:31:48.610 --> 00:31:50.892 align:middle line:90%
a house blown down around us.

00:31:50.892 --> 00:31:55.240 align:middle line:84%
A lot of economic, political
harassment and intimidation.

00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:59.410 align:middle line:84%
A press conference in
Washington, DC, 1960,

00:31:59.410 --> 00:32:01.320 align:middle line:84%
during a voting
rights conference

00:32:01.320 --> 00:32:03.560 align:middle line:84%
sponsored by the Southern
Conference Educational

00:32:03.560 --> 00:32:06.770 align:middle line:84%
Fund, the Southern Christian
Leadership Conference,

00:32:06.770 --> 00:32:08.080 align:middle line:90%
and community organizations.

00:32:08.080 --> 00:32:09.746 align:middle line:84%
--active movement,
and we\'re trying

00:32:09.746 --> 00:32:11.370 align:middle line:84%
to be Christian in
all of our approach.

00:32:11.370 --> 00:32:12.140 align:middle line:90%
I understand.

00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:13.694 align:middle line:90%
To overthrow segregation.

00:32:13.694 --> 00:32:14.360 align:middle line:90%
Well, Ms. Baker.

00:32:14.360 --> 00:32:16.940 align:middle line:84%
Let me ask you, what
is the chief objective

00:32:16.940 --> 00:32:19.110 align:middle line:84%
of your organization
and your movement?

00:32:19.110 --> 00:32:21.480 align:middle line:84%
Well, the movement and
its chief objective

00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:25.100 align:middle line:84%
is to secure for Negro
Americans the basic rights

00:32:25.100 --> 00:32:28.880 align:middle line:84%
and privileges that are supposed
to be enjoyed by all Americans.

00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.190 align:middle line:84%
We wish to be first
class citizens,

00:32:31.190 --> 00:32:34.640 align:middle line:84%
with its responsibilities
and its opportunities.

00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.690 align:middle line:84%
And our major drive--
one of our major drives

00:32:37.690 --> 00:32:40.830 align:middle line:84%
is for the unhampered
franchise to be

00:32:40.830 --> 00:32:44.620 align:middle line:84%
able to register and vote at
all elections, at all times,

00:32:44.620 --> 00:32:46.092 align:middle line:90%
and in all places.

00:32:46.092 --> 00:32:48.076 align:middle line:90%
[SINGING]

00:32:48.076 --> 00:32:50.556 align:middle line:90%
[INAUDIBLE] parade.

00:32:50.556 --> 00:33:06.428 align:middle line:90%
[CHANTING]

00:33:06.428 --> 00:33:40.720 align:middle line:90%
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:46.140 align:middle line:84%
We\'re going to keep on with
our nonviolent protests.

00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:49.457 align:middle line:84%
But we\'re not
guaranteeing you how long

00:33:49.457 --> 00:33:51.130 align:middle line:84%
we\'re going to
remain nonviolent,

00:33:51.130 --> 00:33:52.564 align:middle line:90%
unless you do something.

00:33:52.564 --> 00:33:57.830 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:33:57.830 --> 00:34:04.230 align:middle line:84%
They acted as if they believed
that this was their right.

00:34:04.230 --> 00:34:07.940 align:middle line:84%
And they didn\'t-- I mean, they
weren\'t asking for any favors

00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:10.420 align:middle line:84%
in the sense of
won\'t you please.

00:34:10.420 --> 00:34:11.030 align:middle line:90%
We\'re here.

00:34:11.030 --> 00:34:14.719 align:middle line:90%

00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:16.940 align:middle line:90%
Being violence or nonviolence.

00:34:16.940 --> 00:34:18.226 align:middle line:90%
That\'s not how people--

00:34:18.226 --> 00:34:19.059 align:middle line:90%
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:34:19.059 --> 00:34:22.889 align:middle line:90%

00:34:22.889 --> 00:34:27.280 align:middle line:84%
The most vivid memory of
Ella Baker that I have

00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:33.969 align:middle line:84%
is her sitting at these SNCC
meetings-- which ran for days.

00:34:33.969 --> 00:34:35.760 align:middle line:84%
You didn\'t measure
them in hours.

00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:42.909 align:middle line:84%
They ran days-- with a
smoke mask over her nose,

00:34:42.909 --> 00:34:47.670 align:middle line:84%
listening patiently two
words and discussions

00:34:47.670 --> 00:34:49.615 align:middle line:90%
she must\'ve heard 1,000 times.

00:34:49.615 --> 00:34:53.440 align:middle line:84%
Nonviolence offered
was a tactic that

00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:55.719 align:middle line:90%
kept you from being wiped out.

00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:57.180 align:middle line:84%
And then beyond
that tactic, if you

00:34:57.180 --> 00:34:59.090 align:middle line:84%
had the capacity
at any given time

00:34:59.090 --> 00:35:01.080 align:middle line:84%
to defend yourself
successfully with violence,

00:35:01.080 --> 00:35:02.680 align:middle line:84%
there were a number of
people who were prepared

00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:03.870 align:middle line:90%
to use it at all times.

00:35:03.870 --> 00:35:06.464 align:middle line:84%
That\'s from the earliest
days of the \'60s on.

00:35:06.464 --> 00:35:07.880 align:middle line:84%
People were always
very aggressive

00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.460 align:middle line:90%
in using when it was necessary.

00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:13.400 align:middle line:90%
I never felt nonviolent.

00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:16.210 align:middle line:84%
My point is, only that, in
terms of the organizing, which

00:35:16.210 --> 00:35:20.200 align:middle line:84%
I still insist was the
heart of the movement,

00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:22.170 align:middle line:84%
you didn\'t go to
these plantations,

00:35:22.170 --> 00:35:25.110 align:middle line:84%
and you didn\'t go to these
towns and somehow entered

00:35:25.110 --> 00:35:27.160 align:middle line:84%
into discussions about
violence and nonviolence.

00:35:27.160 --> 00:35:28.910 align:middle line:90%
It didn\'t come up.

00:35:28.910 --> 00:35:29.890 align:middle line:90%
That\'s the difference.

00:35:29.890 --> 00:35:31.130 align:middle line:90%
That\'s what I said.

00:35:31.130 --> 00:35:32.240 align:middle line:90%
The difference is that--

00:35:32.240 --> 00:35:34.460 align:middle line:84%
But the difference
doesn\'t turn on the issue

00:35:34.460 --> 00:35:35.590 align:middle line:90%
of violence or nonviolence.

00:35:35.590 --> 00:35:37.590 align:middle line:84%
No, it doesn\'t turn on
the issue of nonviolence,

00:35:37.590 --> 00:35:39.990 align:middle line:84%
but, god damn it, that
would\'ve been a discussion.

00:35:39.990 --> 00:35:42.505 align:middle line:84%
But when those people
came to Hartman\'s house

00:35:42.505 --> 00:35:46.530 align:middle line:84%
to shoot at him, I mean,
he pushed his family

00:35:46.530 --> 00:35:49.480 align:middle line:84%
out the back door and grabbed
the rifle off the wall

00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.940 align:middle line:84%
and started shooting, and
his explanation was simply

00:35:52.940 --> 00:35:55.926 align:middle line:84%
that I wasn\'t being, as
he said, non-nonviolent.

00:35:55.926 --> 00:35:57.800 align:middle line:84%
He said, I was protecting
my wife and family.

00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:01.000 align:middle line:84%
I think that, probably
more than anything else,

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.870 align:middle line:84%
that whole willingness
to be patient with us--

00:36:04.870 --> 00:36:07.130 align:middle line:84%
which is something
most of us can\'t

00:36:07.130 --> 00:36:08.573 align:middle line:90%
be patient with ourselves.

00:36:08.573 --> 00:36:10.156 align:middle line:84%
I mean, for someone
else to be patient

00:36:10.156 --> 00:36:15.540 align:middle line:84%
with us was probably one of
the most important things

00:36:15.540 --> 00:36:18.988 align:middle line:84%
that she was able to
bring to SNCC as a group.

00:36:18.988 --> 00:36:23.470 align:middle line:90%
[SINGING]

00:36:23.470 --> 00:36:26.458 align:middle line:90%
I\'ll be serving my time.

00:36:26.458 --> 00:36:30.255 align:middle line:90%
I\'ll be serving my time.

00:36:30.255 --> 00:36:33.790 align:middle line:84%
I would take an idea of
the youngest in the group

00:36:33.790 --> 00:36:35.935 align:middle line:90%
if I thought it was an idea.

00:36:35.935 --> 00:36:47.330 align:middle line:90%
[SINGING]

00:36:47.330 --> 00:36:49.110 align:middle line:84%
By the time you
saw the movement,

00:36:49.110 --> 00:36:51.814 align:middle line:90%
the initial inset was in jail.

00:36:51.814 --> 00:36:53.920 align:middle line:84%
And it was Ms.
Baker\'s idea that we

00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:56.800 align:middle line:84%
ought to have a small cadre of
10, 15 people who would just

00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:01.500 align:middle line:84%
pick up and go into Rock Hill,
South Carolina, go into Macon,

00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:04.277 align:middle line:84%
or wherever you want to go,
and just sort of dramatize,

00:37:04.277 --> 00:37:06.110 align:middle line:84%
and also help out,
because most of the time,

00:37:06.110 --> 00:37:08.270 align:middle line:84%
there was nobody
there left to carry

00:37:08.270 --> 00:37:10.320 align:middle line:84%
on the mass meetings
and the organizing,

00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.970 align:middle line:84%
and to try to get
the people moving,

00:37:12.970 --> 00:37:15.680 align:middle line:84%
to try to put the
pressure on the system

00:37:15.680 --> 00:37:17.130 align:middle line:90%
to get people out of jail.

00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:19.240 align:middle line:84%
Most of the people who
were involve in this cadre

00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:21.780 align:middle line:84%
were pretty experienced
in organizing,

00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:23.970 align:middle line:84%
and pretty soon toy
had a whole town

00:37:23.970 --> 00:37:27.815 align:middle line:84%
moving, the mass meetings
were held every night,

00:37:27.815 --> 00:37:30.130 align:middle line:84%
testifying about how much,
what we\'ve got to do,

00:37:30.130 --> 00:37:33.130 align:middle line:84%
and who all\'s going to get ready
to go down to the courthouse

00:37:33.130 --> 00:37:33.630 align:middle line:90%
tomorrow.

00:37:33.630 --> 00:37:36.770 align:middle line:84%
A lot of the songs were made
up around actions that were

00:37:36.770 --> 00:37:38.926 align:middle line:90%
contemplated for the next day.

00:37:38.926 --> 00:37:44.210 align:middle line:84%
You know, if there were people
in jail, the song would be,

00:37:44.210 --> 00:37:47.168 align:middle line:84%
Curtis and Hollis, bound in
jail, something, my bell,

00:37:47.168 --> 00:37:51.980 align:middle line:84%
and hold on, and that\'s what
kept us going, to some extent,

00:37:51.980 --> 00:37:56.000 align:middle line:84%
was the spirit of the
people in the movement,

00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:59.953 align:middle line:84%
even though it was
really rough down there.

00:37:59.953 --> 00:38:05.442 align:middle line:84%
[INAUDIBLE] I\'m gonna
let it shine, oh.

00:38:05.442 --> 00:38:10.931 align:middle line:84%
Let [INAUDIBLE], I\'m
gonna let it shine.

00:38:10.931 --> 00:38:14.923 align:middle line:90%

00:38:14.923 --> 00:38:21.110 align:middle line:84%
[INAUDIBLE] I\'m
gonna let it shine.

00:38:21.110 --> 00:38:22.875 align:middle line:90%
Who is that?

00:38:22.875 --> 00:38:25.722 align:middle line:90%
Who is that?

00:38:25.722 --> 00:38:27.090 align:middle line:90%
Oh, dear.

00:38:27.090 --> 00:38:29.050 align:middle line:90%
Don\'t get up, brother.

00:38:29.050 --> 00:38:32.020 align:middle line:84%
Ella Baker, Fundi,
sent the students

00:38:32.020 --> 00:38:35.330 align:middle line:84%
to former coworkers
like E.D. Nixon,

00:38:35.330 --> 00:38:38.520 align:middle line:84%
a founder of the Montgomery,
Alabama bus boycott,

00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:40.195 align:middle line:90%
and Amzie Moore of Mississippi.

00:38:40.195 --> 00:38:45.370 align:middle line:90%

00:38:45.370 --> 00:38:47.560 align:middle line:84%
The SNCC people
who went in first,

00:38:47.560 --> 00:38:50.370 align:middle line:90%
they reported to Amzie Moore.

00:38:50.370 --> 00:38:55.780 align:middle line:84%
Amzie fought in some of the
prior wars in our country.

00:38:55.780 --> 00:39:03.040 align:middle line:84%
He felt shortchanged by
having given his best,

00:39:03.040 --> 00:39:07.490 align:middle line:84%
and again coming back home
and not being able to vote

00:39:07.490 --> 00:39:08.960 align:middle line:90%
as a man.

00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.940 align:middle line:84%
It was Amzie Moore\'s idea to
have that voter registration.

00:39:13.940 --> 00:39:17.530 align:middle line:84%
So-- and I think is
important-- that the the idea

00:39:17.530 --> 00:39:21.680 align:middle line:84%
came from a person who was
a part of the community,

00:39:21.680 --> 00:39:24.690 align:middle line:84%
and a part of the
leadership of the community.

00:39:24.690 --> 00:39:32.150 align:middle line:84%
So it wasn\'t a program which was
foisted on them, because I came

00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:37.910 align:middle line:84%
down first in 60, and it was
the trip through Mississippi,

00:39:37.910 --> 00:39:43.230 align:middle line:84%
Louisiana, and Alabama that Ella
set up that led to the voter

00:39:43.230 --> 00:39:45.350 align:middle line:90%
registration project.

00:39:45.350 --> 00:39:47.660 align:middle line:84%
Now, the concept of that
project was Amzie\'s.

00:39:47.660 --> 00:39:49.310 align:middle line:90%
Amzie Moore.

00:39:49.310 --> 00:39:53.400 align:middle line:84%
I wanted to go south just to
see how free they really were,

00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:56.470 align:middle line:84%
and what the threat was to
the whole power structure.

00:39:56.470 --> 00:39:58.650 align:middle line:84%
I got caught up in
the freedom riots

00:39:58.650 --> 00:40:00.396 align:middle line:84%
and decided that
Mississippi was where

00:40:00.396 --> 00:40:01.830 align:middle line:90%
I\'d like to stay and work.

00:40:01.830 --> 00:40:04.394 align:middle line:84%
I learnt from the
people in Mississippi.

00:40:04.394 --> 00:40:06.560 align:middle line:84%
I learnt from the people
in Mississippi what I never

00:40:06.560 --> 00:40:09.700 align:middle line:84%
learned from the most brilliant
professors I\'ve sat under.

00:40:09.700 --> 00:40:12.190 align:middle line:84%
They taught me how
not to be ashamed.

00:40:12.190 --> 00:40:15.970 align:middle line:84%
Quite a few of the communities
have not forgotten the image

00:40:15.970 --> 00:40:17.714 align:middle line:84%
that the civil
rights movement left

00:40:17.714 --> 00:40:19.130 align:middle line:84%
in the state of
Mississippi, and I

00:40:19.130 --> 00:40:22.810 align:middle line:84%
think a lot of people in
the states still respect,

00:40:22.810 --> 00:40:25.800 align:middle line:84%
you know, the people like Bob
Moses, and Willie Peacock,

00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:29.770 align:middle line:84%
and Fannie Lou Hamer, and
Sam Block, and what have you.

00:40:29.770 --> 00:40:33.080 align:middle line:84%
Those people who had enough
guys and courage to come in

00:40:33.080 --> 00:40:37.160 align:middle line:84%
and to educate us and give
us a sense of awareness

00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:39.390 align:middle line:84%
about what we were
about, and what

00:40:39.390 --> 00:40:42.430 align:middle line:84%
we should be about in terms
of going out, fighting

00:40:42.430 --> 00:40:45.270 align:middle line:84%
for our people ourselves in
terms of freedom, justice,

00:40:45.270 --> 00:40:46.100 align:middle line:90%
and equality.

00:40:46.100 --> 00:40:49.050 align:middle line:84%
We thought we were
creating an infrastructure

00:40:49.050 --> 00:40:53.550 align:middle line:84%
in the south, a group
of militant people

00:40:53.550 --> 00:40:56.381 align:middle line:84%
in Selma, and in
Hattiesburg, and in Chula,

00:40:56.381 --> 00:40:58.505 align:middle line:84%
and in this little place
and this little place, who

00:40:58.505 --> 00:41:00.220 align:middle line:84%
would be there
after we were gone,

00:41:00.220 --> 00:41:02.410 align:middle line:84%
who would carry on
the movement, and try

00:41:02.410 --> 00:41:04.310 align:middle line:84%
to make the whole region
over, to change it

00:41:04.310 --> 00:41:07.200 align:middle line:84%
not only politically, not
only its racial composition,

00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:09.662 align:middle line:84%
but change its economic
composition as well.

00:41:09.662 --> 00:41:12.287 align:middle line:84%
[MUSIC JAMES ORANGE, \"OH WALLACE
(YOU CAN NEVER JAIL US ALL)\"]

00:41:12.287 --> 00:41:19.020 align:middle line:90%

00:41:19.020 --> 00:41:22.280 align:middle line:84%
I don\'t think I\'m a
highly partisan person.

00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.430 align:middle line:84%
Certainly not
partisan to the extent

00:41:25.430 --> 00:41:29.150 align:middle line:84%
that I don\'t grant the
possibility that somebody

00:41:29.150 --> 00:41:32.956 align:middle line:84%
on the other side might have
a point of view that\'s valid.

00:41:32.956 --> 00:41:34.330 align:middle line:84%
I don\'t think I
could have worked

00:41:34.330 --> 00:41:39.880 align:middle line:84%
as well in the various places
that I went if I had to go down

00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:44.320 align:middle line:84%
and say, now, you\'ve got to
join this before I do that,

00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:47.100 align:middle line:84%
because I didn\'t go
down there to get people

00:41:47.100 --> 00:41:51.230 align:middle line:90%
to become members of any party.

00:41:51.230 --> 00:41:54.320 align:middle line:84%
Whatever interest
I had was primarily

00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:57.050 align:middle line:84%
for people who were
living in given situations

00:41:57.050 --> 00:42:01.300 align:middle line:84%
to realize that there was a
strength they had within them,

00:42:01.300 --> 00:42:04.390 align:middle line:84%
and by combined
efforts, they could

00:42:04.390 --> 00:42:07.960 align:middle line:84%
do something about whatever
their conditions were that they

00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:10.060 align:middle line:90%
wanted to see changed.

00:42:10.060 --> 00:42:12.980 align:middle line:84%
But they first had to know what
their conditions were, and then

00:42:12.980 --> 00:42:15.240 align:middle line:84%
face the fact that
nobody\'s going

00:42:15.240 --> 00:42:18.540 align:middle line:84%
to do for you that which
you have the power to do

00:42:18.540 --> 00:42:19.664 align:middle line:90%
and failed to do.

00:42:19.664 --> 00:42:26.930 align:middle line:90%

00:42:26.930 --> 00:42:30.810 align:middle line:84%
Ms. Baker, to many of us,
is the mother of struggle.

00:42:30.810 --> 00:42:34.290 align:middle line:84%
[? Zelna ?] called her
a national monument.

00:42:34.290 --> 00:42:40.020 align:middle line:84%
Ed King has called her a
lady of shady connections.

00:42:40.020 --> 00:42:47.190 align:middle line:84%
And so I want to bring to you
now, this profound threat,

00:42:47.190 --> 00:42:52.400 align:middle line:84%
this awesome danger,
this nurturer of those

00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:55.960 align:middle line:84%
who needed nurturing,
this scolder of those

00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:59.860 align:middle line:84%
who needed scolding,
this audacious champion

00:42:59.860 --> 00:43:07.530 align:middle line:84%
of the right, this shining black
beacon of shady connections,

00:43:07.530 --> 00:43:09.130 align:middle line:90%
this Ms. Ella Baker.

00:43:09.130 --> 00:43:16.234 align:middle line:90%

00:43:16.234 --> 00:43:22.710 align:middle line:84%
Ella Baker was, if we
can put it this way--

00:43:22.710 --> 00:43:27.050 align:middle line:84%
she was to the left of
the established leadership

00:43:27.050 --> 00:43:30.090 align:middle line:90%
of the civil rights movement.

00:43:30.090 --> 00:43:34.790 align:middle line:84%
And therefore, she identified
with the militant wing

00:43:34.790 --> 00:43:39.400 align:middle line:84%
of SNCC, the Student Nonviolent
Coordinating Committee.

00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:45.980 align:middle line:84%
And there were times when she
believed that Martin Luther

00:43:45.980 --> 00:43:50.970 align:middle line:84%
King should have stayed in jail
with some of those SNCC kids

00:43:50.970 --> 00:43:56.525 align:middle line:84%
instead of being persuaded
by Kennedy to leave the jail.

00:43:56.525 --> 00:43:59.290 align:middle line:90%

00:43:59.290 --> 00:44:02.840 align:middle line:84%
So this, of course,
placed her to the left

00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:05.960 align:middle line:84%
in the civil rights
movement, and that\'s

00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:08.750 align:middle line:84%
why she gained
such great respect

00:44:08.750 --> 00:44:12.890 align:middle line:84%
among the young
people of all races

00:44:12.890 --> 00:44:14.300 align:middle line:90%
in the civil rights struggle.

00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:16.720 align:middle line:84%
You recall at that
period in our history,

00:44:16.720 --> 00:44:23.390 align:middle line:84%
we did have the emerging left,
much more so than we have now.

00:44:23.390 --> 00:44:26.210 align:middle line:84%
We had elements that
were quite pronounced.

00:44:26.210 --> 00:44:28.330 align:middle line:84%
The extent to which Ella
was associated with them,

00:44:28.330 --> 00:44:31.520 align:middle line:84%
I can\'t say, although when
I attended this affair

00:44:31.520 --> 00:44:33.970 align:middle line:84%
for her down in
Washington, I was

00:44:33.970 --> 00:44:40.150 align:middle line:84%
struck by the progressives
who were there [INAUDIBLE],

00:44:40.150 --> 00:44:41.600 align:middle line:90%
one would know them.

00:44:41.600 --> 00:44:44.330 align:middle line:84%
And their identity with
her had not changed.

00:44:44.330 --> 00:44:48.857 align:middle line:84%
When SNCC started, and
of course, Ella\'s role

00:44:48.857 --> 00:44:56.852 align:middle line:84%
in the godmother of SNCC,
you had a new generation

00:44:56.852 --> 00:44:59.570 align:middle line:84%
of young, black people
coming into the movement,

00:44:59.570 --> 00:45:01.816 align:middle line:84%
and gradually a few
white, southern students

00:45:01.816 --> 00:45:04.190 align:middle line:84%
coming in to the movement,
which is something [INAUDIBLE]

00:45:04.190 --> 00:45:07.630 align:middle line:84%
worked to encourage in that
period, who were immediately

00:45:07.630 --> 00:45:11.600 align:middle line:90%
hit, you see, by the Red Scare.

00:45:11.600 --> 00:45:14.070 align:middle line:84%
Immediately told at the very
first meetings they ever

00:45:14.070 --> 00:45:17.039 align:middle line:84%
went to, be careful who you
associate with, and this group,

00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:18.580 align:middle line:84%
you better not work
with, that group,

00:45:18.580 --> 00:45:19.621 align:middle line:90%
you better not work with.

00:45:19.621 --> 00:45:21.800 align:middle line:84%
It\'s very debilitating
to a movement.

00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:27.980 align:middle line:84%
And you see, Ella resisted
that all along, and, I think,

00:45:27.980 --> 00:45:31.770 align:middle line:84%
had a tremendous influence
with the young people in SNCC

00:45:31.770 --> 00:45:38.430 align:middle line:84%
in breaking through
those fears of guiding

00:45:38.430 --> 00:45:41.590 align:middle line:84%
the young people in
SNCC to a position

00:45:41.590 --> 00:45:46.660 align:middle line:84%
that our objective is to
win justice and break down

00:45:46.660 --> 00:45:51.492 align:middle line:84%
segregation, and build a new
world, the beloved community

00:45:51.492 --> 00:45:52.950 align:middle line:84%
they talked about
then, and we will

00:45:52.950 --> 00:45:55.150 align:middle line:84%
work with whoever\'s going
in that direction, which

00:45:55.150 --> 00:45:57.670 align:middle line:84%
is the position SNCC
eventually took, and I think,

00:45:57.670 --> 00:45:59.270 align:middle line:84%
was one of the keys
to its strength.

00:45:59.270 --> 00:46:02.580 align:middle line:84%
You can only go by the
kind of company they keep,

00:46:02.580 --> 00:46:06.520 align:middle line:84%
and I would say she
was oriented more

00:46:06.520 --> 00:46:11.505 align:middle line:84%
leftward than in the middle
of the road, or conservative.

00:46:11.505 --> 00:46:14.280 align:middle line:90%

00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:19.730 align:middle line:84%
There was no way of
affecting a basic change

00:46:19.730 --> 00:46:28.190 align:middle line:84%
without being able to
produce some political clout.

00:46:28.190 --> 00:46:30.220 align:middle line:84%
And the only way
that blacks could

00:46:30.220 --> 00:46:35.540 align:middle line:84%
produce any political clout
was to utilize the ballot.

00:46:35.540 --> 00:46:37.760 align:middle line:84%
The young people
decided to concentrate

00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:41.960 align:middle line:84%
on voter registration in
Mississippi, where only 5%

00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:43.660 align:middle line:90%
of blacks could vote.

00:46:43.660 --> 00:46:48.700 align:middle line:84%
In one county, where there were
2,500 non-whites of voting age,

00:46:48.700 --> 00:46:51.000 align:middle line:90%
no Negroes were registered.

00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:54.630 align:middle line:84%
In 1964, hundreds of
student volunteers

00:46:54.630 --> 00:46:57.408 align:middle line:84%
joined movement staff workers
in the toughest state,

00:46:57.408 --> 00:46:57.908 align:middle line:90%
Mississippi.

00:46:57.908 --> 00:47:02.390 align:middle line:90%

00:47:02.390 --> 00:47:05.370 align:middle line:84%
When you were driving at
any time in Mississippi,

00:47:05.370 --> 00:47:11.620 align:middle line:84%
we always avoided having blacks
and whites visible in the car.

00:47:11.620 --> 00:47:16.080 align:middle line:84%
So if you had fewer whites, they
had to get on the floorboard,

00:47:16.080 --> 00:47:18.700 align:middle line:84%
and when you had to stop
for has or something,

00:47:18.700 --> 00:47:21.080 align:middle line:84%
they were covered
up with blankets.

00:47:21.080 --> 00:47:26.055 align:middle line:84%
At night, sometimes, you
could get by with sitting up,

00:47:26.055 --> 00:47:28.520 align:middle line:84%
but if you slowed down, went
through towns and so forth,

00:47:28.520 --> 00:47:31.420 align:middle line:84%
people had to get down
on the floorboard.

00:47:31.420 --> 00:47:33.834 align:middle line:84%
When there were fewer
blacks, then, of course,

00:47:33.834 --> 00:47:35.500 align:middle line:84%
the black people had
to get on the floor

00:47:35.500 --> 00:47:37.720 align:middle line:84%
and get covered up
with the blankets.

00:47:37.720 --> 00:47:42.450 align:middle line:84%
I remember, Jim Foreman
spent many an hour

00:47:42.450 --> 00:47:45.462 align:middle line:84%
covered up with a blanket
on the floor of the car.

00:47:45.462 --> 00:47:53.360 align:middle line:90%

00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:56.920 align:middle line:84%
There were a dozen known murders
of 60 civil rights workers

00:47:56.920 --> 00:48:02.520 align:middle line:84%
by 1964, and 38 churches were
burned during that summer.

00:48:02.520 --> 00:48:06.400 align:middle line:84%
Despite violence, blacks
seeking political participation

00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.640 align:middle line:84%
decided to form their own
party, the Mississippi Freedom

00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:12.010 align:middle line:90%
Democratic Party, open to all.

00:48:12.010 --> 00:48:15.010 align:middle line:84%
In that we have no
other way of doing it,

00:48:15.010 --> 00:48:19.690 align:middle line:84%
except through the
Freedom Democratic Party,

00:48:19.690 --> 00:48:22.720 align:middle line:84%
since the state of
Mississippi denied us

00:48:22.720 --> 00:48:26.490 align:middle line:84%
the right to participate in
the regular Democratic Party.

00:48:26.490 --> 00:48:32.581 align:middle line:90%

00:48:32.581 --> 00:48:33.330 align:middle line:90%
We have organized.

00:48:33.330 --> 00:48:36.810 align:middle line:84%
This is the Mississippi
Freedom Party.

00:48:36.810 --> 00:48:38.920 align:middle line:84%
We are holding a freedom
registration drive

00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.230 align:middle line:84%
throughout the
state, encouraging

00:48:41.230 --> 00:48:45.260 align:middle line:84%
every Negro and white who wants
a stake in his political future

00:48:45.260 --> 00:48:49.620 align:middle line:84%
to prove it by getting his name
on a freedom registration book.

00:48:49.620 --> 00:48:53.050 align:middle line:84%
We have scheduled precinct
meetings and district caucuses,

00:48:53.050 --> 00:48:56.210 align:middle line:84%
and on August 6,
here in Jackson,

00:48:56.210 --> 00:48:58.230 align:middle line:84%
we will hold our
state convention.

00:48:58.230 --> 00:49:01.300 align:middle line:84%
At that time, we will
elect a slate of delegates

00:49:01.300 --> 00:49:03.990 align:middle line:84%
to the national convention
in Atlantic City.

00:49:03.990 --> 00:49:06.150 align:middle line:84%
And when that
convention meets, we

00:49:06.150 --> 00:49:08.000 align:middle line:84%
will present
ourselves for seating

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:10.445 align:middle line:84%
as the only democratically
constituted body

00:49:10.445 --> 00:49:13.590 align:middle line:84%
of Mississippi citizens
worthy of taking part

00:49:13.590 --> 00:49:14.940 align:middle line:90%
in that convention\'s business.

00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:18.230 align:middle line:90%

00:49:18.230 --> 00:49:22.740 align:middle line:84%
You are here because
you believe, and you

00:49:22.740 --> 00:49:27.035 align:middle line:84%
know, that your life
and the lives of all

00:49:27.035 --> 00:49:32.560 align:middle line:84%
the people of this state
have been hamstrung,

00:49:32.560 --> 00:49:37.670 align:middle line:84%
have been limited, and
both white and negro,

00:49:37.670 --> 00:49:43.050 align:middle line:84%
if you please, by the very
fact that Mr. Eastland,

00:49:43.050 --> 00:49:45.940 align:middle line:84%
and other politicians
like Ross Barnett and even

00:49:45.940 --> 00:49:50.390 align:middle line:84%
your present governor have
subscribed to the theory

00:49:50.390 --> 00:49:57.616 align:middle line:84%
and prejudice of racism first,
and anything else afterwards.

00:49:57.616 --> 00:49:58.990 align:middle line:84%
Because of the
tremendous respect

00:49:58.990 --> 00:50:01.240 align:middle line:84%
that the members of the
Mississippi Freedom Democratic

00:50:01.240 --> 00:50:03.750 align:middle line:84%
Party had for Ms.
Ella Baker, she

00:50:03.750 --> 00:50:07.060 align:middle line:84%
was asked to direct
the campaign to gather

00:50:07.060 --> 00:50:11.470 align:middle line:84%
delegate support for the
1964 convention challenge.

00:50:11.470 --> 00:50:15.020 align:middle line:84%
She did it in this building,
the Hamilton building.

00:50:15.020 --> 00:50:17.820 align:middle line:84%
We asked Ms. Baker if
she would help us work,

00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:23.000 align:middle line:84%
and organize, and look
after the interests of NFDP

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:28.850 align:middle line:84%
in terms of the work of
contacting and building support

00:50:28.850 --> 00:50:31.970 align:middle line:84%
within the Democratic
Party for the challenge.

00:50:31.970 --> 00:50:36.420 align:middle line:84%
All this involves legal
maneuvers at the convention

00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:38.730 align:middle line:84%
and so forth, and
you need somebody

00:50:38.730 --> 00:50:43.920 align:middle line:84%
who can work, and talk to,
and stand up to lawyers.

00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:47.190 align:middle line:84%
And part of that
work was then shaping

00:50:47.190 --> 00:50:50.656 align:middle line:84%
what the expectations were
going to be for the challenge.

00:50:50.656 --> 00:50:53.614 align:middle line:84%
(SINGING) Go tell
it on the mountain,

00:50:53.614 --> 00:50:56.079 align:middle line:90%
over the hill and everywhere.

00:50:56.079 --> 00:50:58.544 align:middle line:84%
Ladies and gentlemen
of this convention.

00:50:58.544 --> 00:51:01.009 align:middle line:90%
It is my privilege to place--

00:51:01.009 --> 00:51:05.939 align:middle line:84%
(SINGING) On the mountain
to let my people go!

00:51:05.939 --> 00:51:08.897 align:middle line:90%
[INAUDIBLE] began to shout.

00:51:08.897 --> 00:51:10.869 align:middle line:90%
Let my people go!

00:51:10.869 --> 00:51:13.370 align:middle line:90%

00:51:13.370 --> 00:51:15.910 align:middle line:84%
Outside the Atlantic
City convention hall,

00:51:15.910 --> 00:51:20.520 align:middle line:84%
NFDP delegates rallied
with Fannie Lou Hamer.

00:51:20.520 --> 00:51:22.940 align:middle line:84%
They were denied entry,
since credentials

00:51:22.940 --> 00:51:24.877 align:middle line:84%
had been granted to the
all white delegation

00:51:24.877 --> 00:51:26.210 align:middle line:90%
from Mississippi. (SINGING) Over

00:51:26.210 --> 00:51:28.178 align:middle line:90%
The hill and everywhere.

00:51:28.178 --> 00:51:34.082 align:middle line:84%
Go tell it on the mountain
to let my people go!

00:51:34.082 --> 00:51:38.510 align:middle line:90%

00:51:38.510 --> 00:51:41.750 align:middle line:84%
When we got there, they
wouldn\'t let us in.

00:51:41.750 --> 00:51:43.780 align:middle line:84%
And of course, I
took a short cut.

00:51:43.780 --> 00:51:45.960 align:middle line:84%
I happened to be one
of the luck ones.

00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:50.350 align:middle line:84%
I got in, and when I saw
Mississippi, I took the seat.

00:51:50.350 --> 00:51:52.085 align:middle line:84%
And of course, they
tried to get us out.

00:51:52.085 --> 00:51:54.987 align:middle line:84%
They pushed, and shoved,
and it was the worst fight

00:51:54.987 --> 00:51:57.885 align:middle line:84%
that I\'ve had,
because nobody didn\'t

00:51:57.885 --> 00:52:01.240 align:middle line:84%
anybody with any fists,
but all the elbowing,

00:52:01.240 --> 00:52:04.000 align:middle line:90%
and our body weight.

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.810 align:middle line:84%
And but hot Ella, when
I did get to that seat,

00:52:06.810 --> 00:52:10.570 align:middle line:84%
I saw, Mississippi, I
ran, and I got in there,

00:52:10.570 --> 00:52:14.740 align:middle line:84%
and I laid down across
a couple of chairs,

00:52:14.740 --> 00:52:18.710 align:middle line:84%
holding for the others,
telling the people above me,

00:52:18.710 --> 00:52:21.290 align:middle line:90%
don\'t let them pull me away.

00:52:21.290 --> 00:52:25.110 align:middle line:90%

00:52:25.110 --> 00:52:28.730 align:middle line:84%
Arguing that an all-white
party could not represent them,

00:52:28.730 --> 00:52:32.280 align:middle line:84%
Freedom Democrats tried to
unseat the regular democrats

00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:35.510 align:middle line:90%
at the 1964 National Convention.

00:52:35.510 --> 00:52:37.610 align:middle line:84%
In the glare of
national publicity,

00:52:37.610 --> 00:52:41.040 align:middle line:84%
Freedom Democrats were
offered a compromise.

00:52:41.040 --> 00:52:43.210 align:middle line:84%
The seating two
of their delegates

00:52:43.210 --> 00:52:47.172 align:middle line:84%
alongside be all-white
regular delegation.

00:52:47.172 --> 00:52:48.380 align:middle line:90%
They rejected the compromise.

00:52:48.380 --> 00:52:53.680 align:middle line:90%

00:52:53.680 --> 00:52:58.010 align:middle line:84%
The Mississippi Freedom
Democratic Party people

00:52:58.010 --> 00:53:02.450 align:middle line:84%
felt that they had a
right to be seated,

00:53:02.450 --> 00:53:05.310 align:middle line:84%
and they didn\'t
have any compunction

00:53:05.310 --> 00:53:11.460 align:middle line:84%
about unseating the others who
did not represent them in order

00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:12.600 align:middle line:90%
to be seated.

00:53:12.600 --> 00:53:16.300 align:middle line:84%
But of course, this
did not take place.

00:53:16.300 --> 00:53:22.840 align:middle line:84%
There was no way to
gracefully or to adequately

00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:28.160 align:middle line:84%
compensate the black
delegation by having

00:53:28.160 --> 00:53:31.420 align:middle line:84%
them to have two
people to sit-in front

00:53:31.420 --> 00:53:36.920 align:middle line:84%
of a delegation that had
misrepresented them all along.

00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:38.440 align:middle line:84%
The way that the
democratic party

00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:41.762 align:middle line:84%
not only came on the
delegates to the convention,

00:53:41.762 --> 00:53:46.265 align:middle line:84%
but on Walter Reuther,
Martin Luther King,

00:53:46.265 --> 00:53:50.340 align:middle line:84%
on the national council
of churches, on the NAACP.

00:53:50.340 --> 00:53:52.020 align:middle line:90%
I mean, it was just incredible.

00:53:52.020 --> 00:53:54.350 align:middle line:84%
I mean, the real arm
twisting went on.

00:53:54.350 --> 00:53:57.800 align:middle line:84%
I mean, Walter Reuther
told Martin Luther King,

00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:01.840 align:middle line:84%
I gave you $160,000
last year, and if you

00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:04.700 align:middle line:84%
vote with these people
and don\'t stop them,

00:54:04.700 --> 00:54:07.080 align:middle line:84%
if you vote for these
people or don\'t stop then,

00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:10.180 align:middle line:84%
you will not get another
penny from the UAW.

00:54:10.180 --> 00:54:14.520 align:middle line:84%
But for the resolutions
that were brought,

00:54:14.520 --> 00:54:17.170 align:middle line:84%
that materialized
because of Ella Baker

00:54:17.170 --> 00:54:20.170 align:middle line:84%
by the Michigan delegation,
by the California delegation,

00:54:20.170 --> 00:54:22.440 align:middle line:84%
and the New York
delegation, the challenge

00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.250 align:middle line:84%
would have been
nipped in its bud.

00:54:25.250 --> 00:54:28.220 align:middle line:84%
As a result of
the 1964 struggle,

00:54:28.220 --> 00:54:31.330 align:middle line:84%
the democratic party
adopted new rules.

00:54:31.330 --> 00:54:34.360 align:middle line:84%
These provide for minority
representation in convention

00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:39.520 align:middle line:84%
delegations on a percentage
basis, and 50% of the delegates

00:54:39.520 --> 00:54:41.222 align:middle line:90%
must be women.

00:54:41.222 --> 00:54:50.060 align:middle line:90%
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:54:50.060 --> 00:55:04.299 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:55:04.299 --> 00:55:08.330 align:middle line:84%
During the late
\'50s, the men didn\'t

00:55:08.330 --> 00:55:10.495 align:middle line:90%
know how to accept women.

00:55:10.495 --> 00:55:12.920 align:middle line:90%
They really didn\'t.

00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:17.340 align:middle line:84%
They didn\'t know all
of the contributions

00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:24.320 align:middle line:84%
that Ms. Baker had to make
when she was working with SCLC.

00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:27.160 align:middle line:84%
They couldn\'t see
the contribution

00:55:27.160 --> 00:55:31.980 align:middle line:84%
that she had in her mind that
would benefit an organization.

00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:35.710 align:middle line:84%
And I was very happy when
she started with the Student

00:55:35.710 --> 00:55:38.140 align:middle line:84%
Nonviolent
Coordinating Committee

00:55:38.140 --> 00:55:42.074 align:middle line:84%
and got those young men to
see what they needed to do.

00:55:42.074 --> 00:55:56.018 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:55:56.018 --> 00:56:01.330 align:middle line:84%
Ms. Baker, more than any
other person in my life,

00:56:01.330 --> 00:56:05.440 align:middle line:84%
made me a caring and
compassionate man.

00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:06.608 align:middle line:90%
And I thank her.

00:56:06.608 --> 00:56:19.192 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:56:19.192 --> 00:56:22.750 align:middle line:84%
Because of the life that we
lived and what we tried to do,

00:56:22.750 --> 00:56:26.540 align:middle line:90%
this country has been changed.

00:56:26.540 --> 00:56:28.530 align:middle line:84%
Now, that\'s important,
because a lot of folks

00:56:28.530 --> 00:56:31.400 align:middle line:84%
will put out a lot of jive,
going, ain\'t nothing changed.

00:56:31.400 --> 00:56:32.810 align:middle line:90%
That\'s a lie.

00:56:32.810 --> 00:56:35.450 align:middle line:84%
That means that you don\'t know
what was before, if you don\'t

00:56:35.450 --> 00:56:37.430 align:middle line:90%
think nothing has changed.

00:56:37.430 --> 00:56:40.760 align:middle line:84%
Now, what I also want
to say in celebration,

00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.250 align:middle line:84%
and also want to
say in analysis,

00:56:43.250 --> 00:56:47.000 align:middle line:84%
is that, because this
country has changed,

00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:50.760 align:middle line:84%
we must change too, if
we are going to continue

00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:52.970 align:middle line:90%
to carry on the struggle.

00:56:52.970 --> 00:56:55.230 align:middle line:84%
You see, that\'s one of
the fascinating things

00:56:55.230 --> 00:56:57.430 align:middle line:90%
about carrying on a struggle.

00:56:57.430 --> 00:57:00.290 align:middle line:84%
You move into a struggle with
certain kinds of visions,

00:57:00.290 --> 00:57:02.130 align:middle line:90%
and ideas, and hopes.

00:57:02.130 --> 00:57:05.620 align:middle line:84%
You transform the situation,
and then you can no longer

00:57:05.620 --> 00:57:09.020 align:middle line:84%
go on with the same kinds of
visions, and hopes, and ideas,

00:57:09.020 --> 00:57:12.940 align:middle line:84%
because you have created
a new situation yourself.

00:57:12.940 --> 00:57:16.920 align:middle line:84%
And if anybody has taught us
how to be flexible, and change,

00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:20.550 align:middle line:84%
and recreate our ideas and our
thoughts as time has gone on,

00:57:20.550 --> 00:57:22.407 align:middle line:90%
Ella Baker has done that.

00:57:22.407 --> 00:57:30.199 align:middle line:90%

00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:34.710 align:middle line:84%
Friends, brothers, and
sisters in the struggle

00:57:34.710 --> 00:57:38.660 align:middle line:84%
for human dignity and
freedom, I am here

00:57:38.660 --> 00:57:42.710 align:middle line:84%
to represent the
struggle that has gone on

00:57:42.710 --> 00:57:45.980 align:middle line:90%
for 300 or more years.

00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:49.810 align:middle line:84%
A struggle to be
recognized as citizens

00:57:49.810 --> 00:57:53.300 align:middle line:84%
in a country in
which we were born.

00:57:53.300 --> 00:57:58.570 align:middle line:84%
I have had about 40 or
50 years of struggle,

00:57:58.570 --> 00:58:02.134 align:middle line:84%
ever since a little boy
on the streets of Norfolk

00:58:02.134 --> 00:58:04.102 align:middle line:90%
called me a nigger.

00:58:04.102 --> 00:58:07.054 align:middle line:84%
I struck him back, and
then I had to learn--

00:58:07.054 --> 00:58:11.974 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:58:11.974 --> 00:58:13.942 align:middle line:90%
I had to learn.

00:58:13.942 --> 00:58:20.270 align:middle line:84%
I had to learn that hitting back
with my fists one individual

00:58:20.270 --> 00:58:22.240 align:middle line:90%
was not enough.

00:58:22.240 --> 00:58:23.740 align:middle line:90%
It takes organization.

00:58:23.740 --> 00:58:26.850 align:middle line:90%
It takes dedication.

00:58:26.850 --> 00:58:31.240 align:middle line:84%
It takes the willingness
to stand by and do

00:58:31.240 --> 00:58:35.870 align:middle line:84%
what has to be done
when it has to be done.

00:58:35.870 --> 00:58:36.870 align:middle line:90%
It has to.

00:58:36.870 --> 00:58:42.370 align:middle line:90%

00:58:42.370 --> 00:58:47.440 align:middle line:84%
A nice gathering like
today is not enough.

00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:51.790 align:middle line:84%
You have to go back, and reach
out to your neighbors who

00:58:51.790 --> 00:58:56.578 align:middle line:84%
don\'t speak to you, and you have
to reach out to your friends,

00:58:56.578 --> 00:58:59.332 align:middle line:84%
who think they are
making it good,

00:58:59.332 --> 00:59:06.470 align:middle line:84%
and get them to understand
that they as well as you and I

00:59:06.470 --> 00:59:13.666 align:middle line:84%
cannot be free in America, or
anywhere else where there is

00:59:13.666 --> 00:59:17.068 align:middle line:84%
capitalism and
imperialism, until--

00:59:17.068 --> 00:59:19.984 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:59:19.984 --> 00:59:21.928 align:middle line:90%
Until.

00:59:21.928 --> 00:59:24.358 align:middle line:90%
Until.

00:59:24.358 --> 00:59:30.330 align:middle line:84%
Until we can get people to
recognize that they themselves

00:59:30.330 --> 00:59:33.318 align:middle line:84%
have to make the
struggle and have

00:59:33.318 --> 00:59:38.010 align:middle line:84%
to make the fight for freedom
every day in the year,

00:59:38.010 --> 00:59:40.780 align:middle line:90%
every year, until they win it.

00:59:40.780 --> 00:59:41.754 align:middle line:90%
Thank you.

00:59:41.754 --> 00:59:45.170 align:middle line:90%

00:59:45.170 --> 00:59:47.660 align:middle line:84%
[MUSIC BERNICE REAGON, \"ELLA\'S
SONG\"]

00:59:47.660 --> 01:03:22.178 align:middle line:90%