Justice and the Generals

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In late 1980, the bodies of four American women were exhumed from a crude grave in El Salvador. The women - Ita Ford and Maura Clarke, nuns of the Maryknoll Congregation in New York; Dorothy Kazel, a nun in the Ursuline Sisters of Cleveland; and Jean Donovan, a lay missionary from the Cleveland Mission - had been abducted, raped, and murdered. An investigation led to the trial and conviction of five Salvadoran National Guardsmen.

But who was behind the murders? It was clear to Bill Ford, brother of Ita, that the Guardsmen were only triggermen. Ford, with help from the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, set out to discover who had ordered, paid for, directed, and covered up the murders.

By the mid-1990's, with the war over and amnesty declared for all human rights abusers, declassified U.S. government records revealed that the State Department had withheld information pointing to involvement at high levels of the Salvadoran military. The new information allowed Ford and other relatives to bring suit against two senior Salvadoran generals, José Guillermo García and Eugenio Vides Casanova. In an unusual legal move, the case is being decided in American civil court under the Torture Victim Protection Act, which gives a course of action in the United States for people who have been victims of torture or extrajudicial killings anywhere in the world

In late 2000, the two generals finally faced the families of the victims in a West Palm Beach courtroom. Without direct evidence implicating them, the generals were charged not with killing or ordering the killings of the women, but with responsibility for the crimes under the command responsibility doctrine, which holds that as commanders they knew or should have known about the abuses committed by their troops, and can be held accountable for those crimes. The generals were found not liable for the crimes, but the case is under appeal and a decision is expected early in 2002. More importantly the landmark pursuit of the generals in federal civil court opens the door for more such trials.

Building on the pioneering work of Bill Ford, another historic case is preparing for trial. Known as the Romagoza case, it is brought by four Salvadorans who are seeking damages for the tortures inflicted on them by Salvadoran security forces during the years 1979 to 1983, while General Guillermo García was minister of defense and General Vides Casanova ran the National Guard. The Romagoza case is expected to go to trial in 2002.

JUSTICE AND THE GENERALS offers unique insight into a new chapter in international human rights law, an important step forward in the campaign to bring military commanders to justice for crimes committed within their ranks. At the same time, as it follows efforts to hold human rights abusers accountable, JUSTICE AND THE GENERALS also maps the confusion, barbarism, and, ultimately, the tragic heart of a conflict whose wounds, two decades later, are far from healed.

"It is incredibly encouraging to see a film that accurately depicts so many of the issues involved in securing justice and accountability, whether at a state, regional or international level."—Dr. Kelly Dawn Askin, Director of the International Criminal Justice Institute, Washington, D.C.

"It is a complex story, elegantly conveyed through the lives of people closely connected to the facts of the case. It is particularly strong in highlighting the strengths -- and weaknesses of using courts to redress the massive violations of rights that occur in repressive regimes. The film invites discussion at a dozen levels."—Professor Peter Rosenblum, Harvard Law School Human Rights Program

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Main credits

Pellett, Gail (film director)
Pellett, Gail (film producer)
Pellett, Gail (screenwriter)
Pellett, Gail (narrator)

Other credits

Camera, Michael Chin [and 7 others]; editor, Alison Amron; composer, Paul Hsu.

MARC Record See Worldcat record

Keywords

Torture Victims Protection Act; Salvador; El Salvador; Salvadoran; generals; Catholic; nuns; international law; Eugenio Vides Casanova; Jose Guillermo Garcia; rape; murder; communist guerrillas; human rights; abuses; Dr. Juan Romagoza; documentary; film; video; "Justice and the Generals"; Icarus Films; "Justice and the Generals"; Icarus Films

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In El Salvador the bodies of
four American women were

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found near the airport of San
Salvador that missionary women but

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he\'s still not known who killed those
women circumstantial evidence that

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security forces and El Salvador
were involved in the main possible.

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Those women were killed by an extremely.

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It\'s a crime that shocked the world
in a country breaking into civil war.

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You\'re alive it\'s very it\'s well not
become bogged down and I\'ve got

00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:05.164
Rob generation trying to haul
arms shipments to left us

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guerillas fighting and also that
overnight there can be no question

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the national security of all of the
Americas is at stake in Central America.

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Now two decades later the search
for truth leads to the top

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military chain of command.

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The search for justice to
an American court ruling.

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There are certain kinds of
crimes that are held to be so

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internationally important that
the people who are alleged

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to have committed them or
considered the enemies of

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all mankind and can be brought into
court wherever it is that they\'re found

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Rob I wanted to give you a report about
the meaning that can Horwitz And

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I had at the offices and the National
Security Council and Washington yesterday.

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We were told that there were documents
which they had not produced to us at all.

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And I think that we should really re-double
our efforts talked to our friends in Congress

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for more than 20 years dark
forward has been searching

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for the truth about his
sister\'s death in El Salvador.

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I know nothing about El Salvador.

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I knew it was a country but I
really did nothing about it.

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Forwards quest places them at the center
of a global effort to hold assassins

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torturers and their commanders accountable.

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It all began with a telephone
call on December third.

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1986 child had just born on November 29th.

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And we were standing around the crib
looking at this new life and the phone

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rang the color reported that Bill Sr.

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EDA and three of her colleagues
were missing in El Salvador.

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I was just stunned that in order to do so I
picked up the phone and I called El Salvador.

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I call the US embassy to get
information but I was put through

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to Ambassador White was the first time in
my life I ever talked to an ambassador

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And white told me that he thought there was

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a ten to 15% chance that the
women were still alive.

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If they were alive they were
being held by the army.

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And that the only way to get
their freedom was to make to

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create a tremendous outcry
eat afford and more

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a Clark were Catholic nuns from
the Mary null order in New York.

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Dorothy castle also a nun
and Jean Donovan a lay

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missionary where with the Ursula
and order based in Cleveland Ohio.

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All four women worked with the poor
in the rural towns of El Salvador.

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For most of the 20th century El Salvador is

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military rule to protect a tiny
class of wealthy landowners.

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The majority of Salvador once had no land

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and efforts to change that
were brutally suppressed.

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In the 19 seventies and
armed opposition emerged.

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By 1980 the four church women found themselves
in a country are erupting into civil war.

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By owing to the one that I
knew Sister Dorothy cable

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I knew Gene determine they had
spent the night at our house.

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Actually the night before
they were murdered that

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following day December second
Dorothy and Jean drove to

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the airport to fetch more
Clark and eat afford who were

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returning from a marinol
regional meeting in Nicaragua.

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A day later White received a phone
call from one of their colleagues.

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And he said that the women were missing

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and it was of course a matter
of tremendous concern.

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Because in those days when someone went

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missing the chances of them ending
up dead with very very high.

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I telephoned parallel
Garcia the Minister of

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Defense and informed him that
these women are missing.

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And he asked if the nuns were wearing habits
and I said I don\'t know I don\'t believe so.

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And that was when I first had this terrible
certainty that they were dead because

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the salvador and military
distinguished between

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good nuns and bad nuns between
good priests and batteries.

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And so that was when I realized that

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an all probability that the woman had been
killed by the security forces and make good

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bodies are for women were found near

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the airport of San Salvador
today had been listening.

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We\'re on w was denied on a trip outside San
Salvador to death and bury a justice of

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the peace identified the bodies today

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three Roman Catholic nuns and
the woman social warfare.

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There was a group of grease some
villagers about the a few reporters.

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And that\'s when I arrived and they
were just pulling the bodies of

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the church when they had been

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And executed at point-blank range

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than the face of Jim data but
had been totally destroyed.

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When we go to the bodies up
there were in the hall there

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were undue underpants and things
that were not on the woman.

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Dorothy\'s underwear was under around her ankle
that was brought on their clothing there.

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So we knew that they had been violated.

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Father Paul Schindler worked
with Dorothy and Jeanne.

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When I first saw the grave I thought they
can\'t be four bodies in these crave.

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We covered them with leaves or with grass to
keep the flies and everything off of them

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Then sister Christine Caine

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she came with sheets and we wrapped
the bodies in sheets at that time.

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As I look back she was sending
a signals in the letters.

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Her general report letter while she
wasn\'t Salvatore Center my mother.

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The climate was getting much worse.

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Children are being killed.

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The Amman these last few
days have been rough ones.

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But part of the seminary and
chancery got banned the other night

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Also a member of the Human Rights Commission
and the priest from here what killed.

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That probably makes more news
than all the beet up who die Guam

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many someone remarked the other day that
all our conversations are about death.

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And it\'s probably true because it\'s
all around and often so barbaric.

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Love to all EDA

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In the year that eat afford wrote those lines
El Salvador social order was tearing apart.

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From the countryside to the city people
were demanding basic democratic right.

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There are demonstrations were met
with increasing military violence.

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In this attack on the
National University in

00:08:59.390 --> 00:09:05.280
June 198016 students were
killed by the National Guard.

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Then as political space

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for the opposition shrink aren\'t leftist
groups began kidnapping the wealthy.

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Killing officials bombing factories and

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pine embassies.

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The Catholic Church long supportive of

00:09:37.670 --> 00:09:42.154
the Ilych now sided with the
poor and the need for reform.

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Church workers and priests
like this one then became

00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:50.220
the targets of the security
forces and death squads.

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In March of 1980 the unthinkable happened
Archbishop Romero who Sunday homilies.

00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.099
We\'re tuned into by the nation begged for

00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:05.340
soldiers to stop the killing
less out-of-band noise.

00:10:05.830 --> 00:10:12.180
Floor. Within days he was assassinated

00:10:15.610 --> 00:10:19.489
In this climate in a unit
when bodies were dumped on

00:10:19.490 --> 00:10:22.699
city streets and rural
highways that year when

00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:24.679
the Catholic archdiocese reported

00:10:24.680 --> 00:10:31.384
at least 9 thousand civilian disappearances
and murders EDA Mora Dorothy and gene.

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We\'re working with refugees.

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Part of what they did and at the
request of the Archbishop was

00:10:37.535 --> 00:10:41.739
the goal and helped transport
refugees out of danger zones or

00:10:41.740 --> 00:10:45.559
wars or where are the men would have to flee
the area but the women and the children were

00:10:45.560 --> 00:10:49.744
there they were unable to
come out of their areas.

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They are tuition would call and
say I can\'t send a priest.

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I can\'t send the layperson because

00:10:54.590 --> 00:10:57.679
The Army would then arrest
them but if I would send

00:10:57.680 --> 00:11:02.134
the glue I planned sisters
grew up in those areas.

00:11:02.135 --> 00:11:05.809
Either and mora or essentially

00:11:05.810 --> 00:11:10.219
distributing food and medicine to
try to better the situation of

00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:14.839
the poor and the oppressed and Solow on
the days following the women\'s murders

00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:19.819
Bill Ford was getting a Crash Course
on his sisters world in El Salvador.

00:11:19.820 --> 00:11:22.999
For this distribution of
food and medicine to anybody

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:26.179
who wanted it either was
seen by the solid or in

00:11:26.180 --> 00:11:30.829
military as a dangerous person as this
oppressive announcements suspending

00:11:30.830 --> 00:11:33.679
all economic and military
aid El Salvador Psalm

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$25 million falling President Jimmy Carter

00:11:36.830 --> 00:11:39.499
and immediately suspended
aid and send a team to

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investigate whether or not
the government is in any way

00:11:42.980 --> 00:11:46.069
implicated either eager for answers

00:11:46.070 --> 00:11:50.299
the church women\'s families met with
Secretary of State Edmund mosquitoes.

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A personally assured us that
the United States would

00:11:54.470 --> 00:11:59.989
insist on a full and complete
investigation into the depths

00:11:59.990 --> 00:12:03.679
of the four American women
will also specifically

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told that as the United States government

00:12:06.530 --> 00:12:09.454
got information that it would
be passed on to the families.

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We were told that we were entitled to

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such information was the least
they could do to do for us.

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Despite these specific promises we\'ve
heard nothing from the State Department.

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Speaking just for the Ford family

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not one telephone call that we have made
to the State Department has been returned.

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The family\'s asked for a copy of the
investigative report that had just been

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completed I was told that
the report was secret.

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We did not have security clearances and we
would not be able to see the final version.

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It dawned on me that I might as well have
been in the pretrial conference in the Bronx

00:12:44.570 --> 00:12:49.534
the State Department was interested in
protecting its clients states in El Salvador.

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They were interested in damage control.

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They were clearly not interested in
a homicide investigation as such

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They wanted this matter just the
swept aside as soon as possible.

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So it was clear that we needed help build

00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:12.679
forward suck that help from a new organization
the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights.

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This was ultimately a legal
case in El Salvador that

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we were hopeful would be initiated
against whoever perpetrated this crime.

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The President Jimmy Carter
sent down a team of

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FBI agents who did what
criminal investigators

00:13:29.750 --> 00:13:33.319
normally did in cases they
lifted fingerprints off the band

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they searched for the weapons that
were used in carrying out the murders

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We got on the case we learned that
all the information developed

00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:45.240
by the FBI was inadmissible
in a Salvatore in court.

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Meanwhile a change of guard in
Washington before he left office in

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early 1981 president Carter
reinstated aid to El Salvador.

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The incoming Reagan administration
made it clear that the

00:14:02.150 --> 00:14:06.139
salvador and military could
expense solid support for

00:14:06.140 --> 00:14:09.289
its war against the leftist
opposition roundabout dust in

00:14:09.290 --> 00:14:12.859
the decision to send US military
advisors do El Salvador has

00:14:12.860 --> 00:14:15.919
arrived today and El Salvador
Reagan said today he has

00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:20.910
no intention of paying El Salvador
turn into another. Vietnam

00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:27.019
Destiny played Salvador at
this moment and the front line

00:14:27.020 --> 00:14:32.194
of the struggle for justice and democracy.

00:14:32.195 --> 00:14:35.494
And again totalitarian oppression.

00:14:35.495 --> 00:14:38.434
The State Department regards
this as a political problem.

00:14:38.435 --> 00:14:43.459
And rather than a problem of justice rather
than a conventional homicide with the foot

00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:48.814
dragging by the salvador ins and the State
Department Ford took his case to Congress.

00:14:48.815 --> 00:14:51.514
Vacation. Salvatore is going over a cliff.

00:14:51.515 --> 00:14:53.779
The State Department is wringing its hands

00:14:53.780 --> 00:14:56.689
The Sava Dorians are in competent descent

00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:00.154
arrested intimidate or some
combination of all three.

00:15:00.155 --> 00:15:04.789
Congress itself was deeply divided
over the policy in El Salvador.

00:15:04.790 --> 00:15:07.714
We will never went piece
by encouraging terrorism.

00:15:07.715 --> 00:15:11.509
We will never win respect by winging
it the murder of American citizens.

00:15:11.510 --> 00:15:13.759
And we will whenever press
the rest of the world

00:15:13.760 --> 00:15:16.249
by arming the murderers
of nines and presents

00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:21.739
the other option would be to turn tail and
Central America go to the terrorists.

00:15:21.740 --> 00:15:24.139
I don\'t think the American
people want them to happen.

00:15:24.140 --> 00:15:29.179
I certainly five months after

00:15:29.180 --> 00:15:32.329
the murders under pressure
from Congress to prosecute

00:15:32.330 --> 00:15:36.664
the crime the silver adorns
arrested a team of national.

00:15:36.665 --> 00:15:41.430
But nothing was done to pursue
the charges against them.

00:15:47.020 --> 00:15:51.769
Angry with the lack of progress on
the case forward made the first of

00:15:51.770 --> 00:15:57.589
many exploratory trips to El Salvador
visiting the town where Ada worked and lived.

00:15:57.590 --> 00:16:00.049
He began his own journey to uncover

00:16:00.050 --> 00:16:04.774
the truth about two days before
more and ito were killed.

00:16:04.775 --> 00:16:07.249
There was a sign posted over

00:16:07.250 --> 00:16:11.089
the entrance to the church in
chocolate and angle where they live.

00:16:11.090 --> 00:16:18.274
And the sign said that people who live here
the people who work here are Communists

00:16:18.275 --> 00:16:21.289
And within two days the
killings will begin.

00:16:21.290 --> 00:16:24.649
And of course today\'s later
our sisters were dead.

00:16:24.650 --> 00:16:29.554
Forward was convinced that the five
guardsman under arrest or poems

00:16:29.555 --> 00:16:34.024
in some masters game there is no authority.

00:16:34.025 --> 00:16:37.429
There is no commission there
is no group in El Salvador

00:16:37.430 --> 00:16:41.989
investigating the implication of
higher-ranking people in these murders.

00:16:41.990 --> 00:16:45.409
There had been prejudges assigned
to this case in El Salvador.

00:16:45.410 --> 00:16:48.724
Two of them have resigned supposedly
had a fear with their lives.

00:16:48.725 --> 00:16:52.399
If the only committees of this vicious act

00:16:52.400 --> 00:16:54.529
Five low-level enlisted men.

00:16:54.530 --> 00:16:57.574
Why should the Salvadore and
judge fear these people

00:16:57.575 --> 00:17:01.999
the real factor that the Gattaca
Salvatore learns to treat this case

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:05.869
differently than the tens of
thousands of other cases of

00:17:05.870 --> 00:17:11.479
murdered Salvador and civilians was when
Senator Arlen Specter who was a new senator at

00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:13.729
the time from Pennsylvania
who had pushed through

00:17:13.730 --> 00:17:16.639
congress a bill that withheld 1 third of

00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.999
US military assistance to
El Salvador until there was

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.719
a verdict in the case they would have to
be improvements in the judicial system.

00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:28.819
There would have to be free elections and that
piece of legislation that held their money

00:17:28.820 --> 00:17:31.174
back is what really turned up the heat

00:17:31.175 --> 00:17:35.010
under the salvador and government
and got the case going

00:17:38.050 --> 00:17:42.919
So in 1984 when the five
accused Guardsmen were

00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:47.089
finally brought to trial it was the first
case and the history of El Salvador.

00:17:47.090 --> 00:17:50.299
That members of the military had been put

00:17:50.300 --> 00:17:54.540
on trial for committing
human rights violations.

00:17:55.780 --> 00:18:01.789
A picture emerged of that ill-fated
evening on December second 1980.

00:18:01.790 --> 00:18:05.314
At the orders of their subs
Sergeant the guardsman joined him

00:18:05.315 --> 00:18:09.664
in setting up a roadblock
just outside the airport.

00:18:09.665 --> 00:18:14.149
Letting other cars go
they stop the nuns van

00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:19.800
The family drove the women to a
remote site raped and killed them.

00:18:23.350 --> 00:18:28.219
In El Salvador five former members of the
National Guard had been sentenced to

00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:32.854
a maximum 30 years in prison for
the night from that time forward

00:18:32.855 --> 00:18:37.459
the families were urged particularly by
by the State Department to get all of

00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:38.779
our lives to take

00:18:38.780 --> 00:18:44.164
satisfaction that the people who
actually pulled the trigger or in jail.

00:18:44.165 --> 00:18:49.849
But after making trip upon
trip to El Salvador after

00:18:49.850 --> 00:18:56.629
talking to hundreds of people in the country
and all walks of life it became clear

00:18:56.630 --> 00:19:01.444
The salvador military is a
very top-down organization.

00:19:01.445 --> 00:19:05.329
Nothing happens unless an order is given.

00:19:05.330 --> 00:19:09.009
Well forward pursuit has
investigations that

00:19:09.010 --> 00:19:13.710
torture disappearance and
killing of civilians continued.

00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:17.899
Throughout the 19 eighties usaid and

00:19:17.900 --> 00:19:23.460
the billions of dollars fed the
appetite of the salvador and military.

00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:27.934
The leftist guerrillas now
entrenched in the countryside

00:19:27.935 --> 00:19:32.509
We\'re accused of receiving help
from Cuba and the Soviet Union.

00:19:32.510 --> 00:19:36.570
Nobody was winning the war.

00:19:36.610 --> 00:19:41.434
Bill Ford persisted with his
campaign for the truth.

00:19:41.435 --> 00:19:44.539
There are a lot of serious
questions that still remain on

00:19:44.540 --> 00:19:49.414
answer or who paid for it will direct
it who covered up these crimes.

00:19:49.415 --> 00:19:55.249
Before the trial we were told that we
can\'t get into the issue of higher orders

00:19:55.250 --> 00:19:57.979
because the lawyers for these
five Guardsmen are going to

00:19:57.980 --> 00:20:00.829
use that as a defense so
we can\'t talk about it.

00:20:00.830 --> 00:20:02.044
We can\'t examine it.

00:20:02.045 --> 00:20:06.169
We certainly can\'t raise it in the
criminal proceeding or the investigation.

00:20:06.170 --> 00:20:10.084
It\'s going to become a Defense and
the State Department and the embassy

00:20:10.085 --> 00:20:14.149
We\'re just terrified of the
possibility of an acquittal

00:20:14.150 --> 00:20:18.424
here because that would have killed
us assistance through El Salvador.

00:20:18.425 --> 00:20:23.269
After the trial they they
kept repeating this mantra.

00:20:23.270 --> 00:20:27.079
There is no evidence of
any higher involvement.

00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:30.004
And in fact we have proof

00:20:30.005 --> 00:20:34.099
this special embassy evidence which
unfortunately we can\'t let you see because

00:20:34.100 --> 00:20:37.669
it\'s it would reveal
intelligence sources but it it

00:20:37.670 --> 00:20:42.304
establishes conclusively that
there were no higher orders

00:20:42.305 --> 00:20:47.479
Undaunted forward in the Lawyers Committee
kept hammering government agencies for

00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:52.534
documents that might reveal the chain of
command in the church women\'s murders.

00:20:52.535 --> 00:20:58.114
We got boxes of documents that look
like small black window shades.

00:20:58.115 --> 00:21:01.429
Part of the fight that the family has been

00:21:01.430 --> 00:21:04.489
through all of these past
20 years is the fight

00:21:04.490 --> 00:21:11.520
with our own government to find out what our
own government knew about these murders.

00:21:13.060 --> 00:21:16.429
In this part of the world or
settlement of El Salvador

00:21:16.430 --> 00:21:18.829
is 12-year civil war was
announced yesterday.

00:21:18.830 --> 00:21:24.919
The UN sponsored deal is designed to end the
civil war that has cost 75 thousand lives

00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:28.849
January nineteen ninety two L
Salvatore\'s warring parties

00:21:28.850 --> 00:21:32.299
formed their country\'s first
democratic government.

00:21:32.300 --> 00:21:35.794
Most of the internal security
forces were dissolved.

00:21:35.795 --> 00:21:38.509
The military high command was purged

00:21:38.510 --> 00:21:43.354
the army cut in half from Central
America today the truth.

00:21:43.355 --> 00:21:48.169
A commission set up by the United Nations
as part of the cease fire in 1793

00:21:48.170 --> 00:21:50.989
a UN sponsored Truth
Commission determined that

00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:55.594
the majority of murders were committed
by the security and armed forces.

00:21:55.595 --> 00:21:59.239
They also named military officers
who were responsible for

00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:03.739
particular high-profile
assassinations and mass occurs.

00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:07.440
They investigated the church women\'s case.

00:22:09.340 --> 00:22:15.529
The truth report names general Garcia
Minister of Defense in 1980 and

00:22:15.530 --> 00:22:19.549
general fetus Casanova head
of the National Guard as

00:22:19.550 --> 00:22:24.484
covering up and interfering with the
investigation into the church women\'s murders.

00:22:24.485 --> 00:22:29.794
And what the Truth Commission did was it
really said there\'s significant reasons

00:22:29.795 --> 00:22:33.079
legally compelling reasons to question

00:22:33.080 --> 00:22:37.489
the official version that the case began
and ended with those five guardsman.

00:22:37.490 --> 00:22:42.859
Within days of the release of the truth
commission report implicating these two generals.

00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:47.554
El Salvador is new legislature
passed a sweeping amnesty.

00:22:47.555 --> 00:22:49.339
Human rights abusers

00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:52.094
Would not be prosecuted.

00:22:52.095 --> 00:22:56.389
Five years passed when the
silver adorns announced that

00:22:56.390 --> 00:22:59.929
they were going to release the
guardsmen from jail Beranek and

00:22:59.930 --> 00:23:03.889
great head rush to El Salvador to
interview the man About the night they

00:23:03.890 --> 00:23:08.899
killed the church women each one had
their own particular perspective on it.

00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:11.689
But where they coincided was that there was

00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:15.319
a moment in that evening when it
became clear that they were going

00:23:15.320 --> 00:23:18.349
to kill these women and
that moment happened after

00:23:18.350 --> 00:23:22.999
their unit leader made a
phone call to somebody even

00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:26.899
though with a front-page story in The
New York Times the State Department\'s

00:23:26.900 --> 00:23:31.639
still continued to insist that there
was no evidence of higher orders

00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.579
For it in the Lawyers Committee stepped up

00:23:34.580 --> 00:23:38.674
their campaign to get more documents
from the State Department.

00:23:38.675 --> 00:23:43.069
And finally we got the
cable traffic the cable

00:23:43.070 --> 00:23:47.374
sent by Ambassador White to Washington
reporting what was happening.

00:23:47.375 --> 00:23:53.089
Then we got the cable traffic from the
early years of the Reagan administration

00:23:53.090 --> 00:24:00.019
when even Reagan\'s ambassadors became
outraged at what the Salvatore\'s were doing.

00:24:00.020 --> 00:24:07.264
They were cables reporting conversations
that the US Ambassador Tom Pickering

00:24:07.265 --> 00:24:13.909
had in 1985 a year after the trials with
two Salvador and generals reporting

00:24:13.910 --> 00:24:21.319
That at the time of the murders the Minister
of Defense year I\'m all Garcia suspected

00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:25.339
the involvement of a army colonel
who was the commander in

00:24:25.340 --> 00:24:29.629
charge of the zone where the murders took
place whose name was Eduardo Casanova.

00:24:29.630 --> 00:24:33.049
Eduardo Casanova happens
to be the first cousin.

00:24:33.050 --> 00:24:37.429
Vetoes Casanova who was the Director
General of the National Guard.

00:24:37.430 --> 00:24:39.229
It just shocked me.

00:24:39.230 --> 00:24:43.759
Shocked me that the State
Department that somebody found

00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:46.069
some justification for not sharing

00:24:46.070 --> 00:24:50.824
these important information with families
and with Republic and with Congress

00:24:50.825 --> 00:24:53.644
who had been asking for it all this time.

00:24:53.645 --> 00:24:59.539
Armed with these new revelations veterinarian
great hit seek out generals Garcia and

00:24:59.540 --> 00:25:06.064
Vedas Casanova only to be told that
the generals had retired to Florida.

00:25:06.065 --> 00:25:11.119
I remember I think in a series of

00:25:11.120 --> 00:25:16.159
amazing developments this was
absolutely the most amazing that

00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:23.149
these two generals who I believe morally are
ultimately responsible for these murders and

00:25:23.150 --> 00:25:26.539
unquestionably participated in covering

00:25:26.540 --> 00:25:30.349
up the murders of American
citizens are living in Florida.

00:25:30.350 --> 00:25:33.079
I mean you could have knocked
me over with a feather

00:25:33.080 --> 00:25:36.649
To think that these people
will then have the nerves to

00:25:36.650 --> 00:25:41.494
seek out a comfortable retirement
the United States just enraged me.

00:25:41.495 --> 00:25:45.049
Yeah I initially thought
that since these men were

00:25:45.050 --> 00:25:49.279
here and since they had information
about what went on and I\'ll

00:25:49.280 --> 00:25:54.919
solve it or they might give us
information in exchange for us agreeing

00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:57.619
not to sue them but to try to sue

00:25:57.620 --> 00:26:01.384
other people who might have been more
directly involved in the murders of women.

00:26:01.385 --> 00:26:05.269
So robbed var1 OK. And Scott
greater Lawyers Committee.

00:26:05.270 --> 00:26:09.829
And I went down and we met
separately with general Garcia and

00:26:09.830 --> 00:26:15.619
Joan Casanova but to see if they would give
us information but they declined to do so

00:26:15.620 --> 00:26:18.469
Both of them deny that they knew anything.

00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:21.379
I came away knowing that
the decision to sue

00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:25.230
these man and to hold them
accountable was the right decision.

00:26:29.350 --> 00:26:35.689
Goes over Central American war surplus
today in a florida court room go asking

00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:41.974
for just 20 years after four murders their
generals are facing a civil suit in this case.

00:26:41.975 --> 00:26:45.919
After almost 20 years of
pursuing the chain of

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:49.444
command in their sisters
murders Bill Ford and

00:26:49.445 --> 00:26:52.609
other family members walk
into federal court to hold

00:26:52.610 --> 00:26:57.004
these two former Salvador and
military leaders accountable

00:26:57.005 --> 00:27:02.149
Before the generals entered the court room
a number of things went through my mind.

00:27:02.150 --> 00:27:05.869
I was glad to have an opportunity
but I was very fearful

00:27:05.870 --> 00:27:11.599
about some of the testimony that I was going
to have to listen to about my system.

00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:16.020
What happened to her as she died.

00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:19.969
Trying the case for the families is

00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:24.844
Robert Montgomery a successful personal
injury lawyer from Palm Beach.

00:27:24.845 --> 00:27:26.959
I\'m a tragedy lawyer.

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.619
Even tragedies I try to right
wrongs take care of people.

00:27:30.620 --> 00:27:38.620
And in this particular case this case
was crying out for justice and truth

00:27:39.185 --> 00:27:45.379
Trying the case with Montgomery is another
Florida personal injury lawyer robert kerogen.

00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:47.179
Both attorneys are hot off

00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:50.554
the multi-million dollar settlement
in the Florida tobacco case.

00:27:50.555 --> 00:27:54.799
And they\'re trying this case pro bono
The primary interest in that cases.

00:27:54.800 --> 00:27:56.404
This is a great story.

00:27:56.405 --> 00:28:00.589
And it\'s a great case to try to have
all the truth come out in a courtroom.

00:28:00.590 --> 00:28:03.544
Is it the best way to
address this imbalance

00:28:03.545 --> 00:28:07.609
No it\'s the only way there\'s
just nothing else to do.

00:28:07.610 --> 00:28:09.679
You couldn\'t have anything but

00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:13.249
perhaps a truth commission in this
country maybe on that subject.

00:28:13.250 --> 00:28:16.039
But this is the only way all of
this is going to come out is in

00:28:16.040 --> 00:28:18.049
this civil forum and I think that\'s what

00:28:18.050 --> 00:28:21.109
the families want they want
the whole thing to come out

00:28:21.110 --> 00:28:26.434
I had to go to the math and find out
where Salvador knew was generally

00:28:26.435 --> 00:28:32.404
somewhere in Central America thought maybe
close to the Panama Canal somewhere in there.

00:28:32.405 --> 00:28:36.829
Once I found California Canada\'s
went no I had no idea where

00:28:36.830 --> 00:28:41.554
El Salvador was our Remember
the assassinations.

00:28:41.555 --> 00:28:45.364
Remember the murder murders of the nuns.

00:28:45.365 --> 00:28:48.109
I was extremely nervous
coming down here and

00:28:48.110 --> 00:28:51.799
I don\'t know why maybe you\'re
prepared for some things.

00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:55.879
But I just really have gotten great piece.

00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:01.459
Because I think about more and I know
that this is what she would want us to do

00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:05.284
After filing 13 motions to dismiss the case

00:29:05.285 --> 00:29:09.949
Miami attorney Kurt close is
here to defend the generals.

00:29:09.950 --> 00:29:13.189
His case was brought onto the
Torture Victim Protection Act

00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:15.754
which is a relatively new law.

00:29:15.755 --> 00:29:19.429
It gives a cause of action for
people that have been victims

00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:24.544
of torture or extra judicial
killings anywhere in the world.

00:29:24.545 --> 00:29:31.219
This case is a civil case and
the only legal remedy that you

00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:37.759
get in a civil case is money but the families
are not bringing the case for the money.

00:29:37.760 --> 00:29:40.384
The money is irrelevant to us.

00:29:40.385 --> 00:29:43.729
The civil case is only a venue.

00:29:43.730 --> 00:29:48.979
It\'s the only present means
that the families have to bring

00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:54.889
these generals before United States caught
to answer for what they did to our systems.

00:29:54.890 --> 00:29:58.939
We use the torture victims
protection ACT because it is

00:29:58.940 --> 00:30:04.729
the only present way we have to
bring these men to any semblance of

00:30:04.730 --> 00:30:07.309
accountability in any case
that we brought in under

00:30:07.310 --> 00:30:11.179
the torture victims protection ACT against
these two generals was going to be

00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:15.049
a very difficult and precedent
setting case because we didn\'t have

00:30:15.050 --> 00:30:21.289
specific direct evidence linking
these two generals to this murder.

00:30:21.290 --> 00:30:24.424
There was a lot of
circumstantial evidence but

00:30:24.425 --> 00:30:27.799
We concluded early on than any case

00:30:27.800 --> 00:30:31.339
that could be presented against them
would have to be circumstantial and

00:30:31.340 --> 00:30:34.789
based on what\'s called a
command responsibility theory

00:30:34.790 --> 00:30:38.959
which is based on precedent
established really at the end

00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:46.960
of World War Two in the trials for war
crimes violations and they\'re tough cases.

00:30:48.580 --> 00:30:52.609
The judge tells a jury of
ten that the legal Key to

00:30:52.610 --> 00:30:56.959
the case is this doctrine
of command responsibility.

00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.374
Superiors be held liable for the crimes
committed by their subordinates.

00:31:02.375 --> 00:31:06.589
When the superiors knew or should
have known about the crimes

00:31:06.590 --> 00:31:09.079
failed to prevent or punish them.

00:31:09.080 --> 00:31:11.959
If you do nothing when something bad

00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.034
happens your troops engaged
in some terrible conduct.

00:31:15.035 --> 00:31:20.044
And as the commander you look the
other way then you send a message.

00:31:20.045 --> 00:31:22.084
This is the order.

00:31:22.085 --> 00:31:25.879
Don\'t pay any attention to the written
order or the speeches they\'re

00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:29.389
made for the politicians or
public relations has nothing to

00:31:29.390 --> 00:31:33.229
do with how we operate as the troops and

00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:38.719
command responsibility is that the commander
either knew what you could almost

00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:43.444
never prove or reasonably
should have known that

00:31:43.445 --> 00:31:48.679
this conduct was going to
occur and you prove that by

00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:54.859
Failing to punish the offender failing
to repress it failing to effectively

00:31:54.860 --> 00:32:01.189
renounce it so that you have created this
atmosphere of approval which is the order.

00:32:01.190 --> 00:32:03.604
That\'s command responsibility.

00:32:03.605 --> 00:32:07.789
Extraordinary case absolutely Susan Spencer

00:32:07.790 --> 00:32:11.494
with the Palm Beach Post
reports daily on the trial.

00:32:11.495 --> 00:32:15.994
A civilian jury hearing a case of

00:32:15.995 --> 00:32:21.169
command responsibility in a US district
court not in a military court not in a

00:32:21.170 --> 00:32:24.379
international tribunals not at the Hague.

00:32:24.380 --> 00:32:26.704
This isn\'t a US district court.

00:32:26.705 --> 00:32:29.989
And ten people like URI hearing a case

00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:33.199
of command responsibility that
that also was extraordinary.

00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:36.274
So every way you looked at it the generals

00:32:36.275 --> 00:32:39.694
showing up that was extraordinary
when they walked in the door.

00:32:39.695 --> 00:32:44.340
925 on on October the
tenth they made history.

00:32:45.550 --> 00:32:51.469
The first expert witness for the Plaintiffs
tells the jury that when the hunter formed in

00:32:51.470 --> 00:32:56.629
1979 inviting civilians to share
power with military leaders.

00:32:56.630 --> 00:33:00.780
General Garcia became minister of defense.

00:33:01.090 --> 00:33:03.389
Although the civilians soon

00:33:03.390 --> 00:33:04.999
Quit the Linton to protest

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:10.909
the continuing military violence go to see
your remained in power for good jaws was.

00:33:10.910 --> 00:33:15.514
He chose kernel Vitis Casanova
as head of the National Guard.

00:33:15.515 --> 00:33:20.400
The largest and most notorious
of the security forces.

00:33:21.670 --> 00:33:27.904
The jury also learns that the killing of
the church women was not an isolated act.

00:33:27.905 --> 00:33:32.554
There was the assassination of
Archbishop Romero that same year.

00:33:32.555 --> 00:33:35.839
Then just before the nuns killing six of

00:33:35.840 --> 00:33:38.929
the top leaders of the opposition
were abducted in public

00:33:38.930 --> 00:33:46.200
while security forces stood by their mutilated
bodies were dumped at the edge of the city

00:33:47.530 --> 00:33:51.379
If you have had a history where
people had been shot from

00:33:51.380 --> 00:33:56.284
the Palace roof or from the Command
Headquarters roof and do a crowd of protesters.

00:33:56.285 --> 00:33:59.779
And you have a history were priests
have been killed saying mass.

00:33:59.780 --> 00:34:06.214
You don\'t have to send much of a signal
of who you want disposed of and when and

00:34:06.215 --> 00:34:09.589
a comment like the nuns
are causing some trouble

00:34:09.590 --> 00:34:13.624
is sufficient but this kind of atmosphere
too would be an effective order.

00:34:13.625 --> 00:34:17.554
So command responsibility as knew
or should have known based upon

00:34:17.555 --> 00:34:21.599
a history a pattern and
practice of the command that

00:34:21.600 --> 00:34:24.589
Permits this atmosphere to
develop in which people

00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:29.700
understand the real order
the real order is violence.

00:34:32.140 --> 00:34:36.709
The plaintiffs are trying to prove
that the generals knew about and

00:34:36.710 --> 00:34:41.029
tolerated a pattern and practice
of human rights abuses.

00:34:41.030 --> 00:34:47.419
The jury learns about the massacred illness
ot a year after the church women\'s murders

00:34:47.420 --> 00:34:54.739
more than 600 civilians in a rural village
were rounded up and executed by an army unit.

00:34:54.740 --> 00:34:58.519
Later a forensic anthropologists
discovered that

00:34:58.520 --> 00:35:03.510
more than a 100 where children
and their average age was six.

00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:10.099
When the genitals attorney
incurred close cross examines

00:35:10.100 --> 00:35:15.439
the first witness he reveals a cornerstone
of the defense and the United States

00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.669
was overseeing everything that was going
on in El Salvador at that time we were

00:35:19.670 --> 00:35:25.804
supplying not only advice but
hardware and economic aid.

00:35:25.805 --> 00:35:27.049
And these men were dough.

00:35:27.050 --> 00:35:30.604
And basically what the United States
wiring that though at that time.

00:35:30.605 --> 00:35:33.544
So if there was some
responsibility for command

00:35:33.545 --> 00:35:36.829
Maybe the United States should
bear some responsibility.

00:35:36.830 --> 00:35:41.839
Also. I was thinking today as Mr. class was

00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:47.434
suggesting that the United States government
was equally responsible with the January.

00:35:47.435 --> 00:35:52.009
So therefore since we are all
responsible nobody is responsible.

00:35:52.010 --> 00:35:57.619
I think that defense was tried
and discredited that Nuremberg.

00:35:57.620 --> 00:36:01.789
These two generals were
clearly in a chain of

00:36:01.790 --> 00:36:07.789
organization and a chain of command
that caused the deaths of our systems.

00:36:07.790 --> 00:36:11.569
Whether or not anybody in the
United States government is

00:36:11.570 --> 00:36:15.990
responsible is terminal
and a separate question

00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:22.414
To Salvador sandwiches from the
Lawyers Committee for Human Rights.

00:36:22.415 --> 00:36:26.614
Years preparing the case for
Montgomery and kerogen.

00:36:26.615 --> 00:36:32.509
Minister of Agriculture who seems to
have been intimidated out of testifying.

00:36:32.510 --> 00:36:35.989
He wrote this letter a few days into

00:36:35.990 --> 00:36:40.654
the trial and important witness
from El Salvador is backing out.

00:36:40.655 --> 00:36:45.619
Jorge via Corta was in
the first one to in 1979

00:36:45.620 --> 00:36:51.109
appalled by the relentless military
repression he quit and went into exile.

00:36:51.110 --> 00:36:54.109
Today he\'s a legislator
in the new Salvatore in

00:36:54.110 --> 00:36:58.204
government as a result of the beginning
of this trial all of the media

00:36:58.205 --> 00:37:01.594
In El Salvador are
involved in a big campaign

00:37:01.595 --> 00:37:05.494
to show that the child is not
an objective fair process.

00:37:05.495 --> 00:37:08.329
A testimony would be of
little value but would

00:37:08.330 --> 00:37:12.379
provoke costs and conflicts in
El Salvador and not just to me

00:37:12.380 --> 00:37:17.494
personally but to my political party
and others because in my family

00:37:17.495 --> 00:37:19.579
that month my family because of

00:37:19.580 --> 00:37:23.644
the distorted interpretation that
is already being sent around.

00:37:23.645 --> 00:37:25.924
He\'s trying to tell us you
understand what they\'re doing to me

00:37:25.925 --> 00:37:29.299
But he\'s writing it in this cone like
well my testimony won\'t be this.

00:37:29.300 --> 00:37:33.449
I\'m going to be that that that damn letters
for somebody else\'s benefit not ours.

00:37:33.450 --> 00:37:38.269
You you are so forgiving I don\'t
forgive people liked it and I

00:37:38.270 --> 00:37:40.399
think there\'s a responsibility
and somebody hands

00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:43.529
especially when he was a part
of the dam yeah baba yeah.

00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:47.179
Generals they don\'t have them all as killer\'s
family there that could kill us family.

00:37:47.180 --> 00:37:49.800
I\'m you know they\'ve done it before.

00:37:51.160 --> 00:37:53.944
Next former Ambassador.

00:37:53.945 --> 00:37:56.614
Robert light took the stand.

00:37:56.615 --> 00:38:01.519
A master White was certainly the plaintiffs
strongest witness who had the most sort of

00:38:01.520 --> 00:38:08.194
direct involvement with the generals with the
experience he was at the scene. He stood at

00:38:08.195 --> 00:38:12.859
And watched as nuns were pulled
out of out of the dirt hole.

00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:16.834
I think that people should sort
of stand guard over this thing.

00:38:16.835 --> 00:38:21.259
While I go and get on the telephone
to Garcia and everybody else

00:38:21.260 --> 00:38:27.079
got called on the Minister of Defense.

00:38:27.080 --> 00:38:35.080
And I told him that this government could
succeed only if the military would

00:38:36.095 --> 00:38:41.509
cleanse itself of these
death squads that operated

00:38:41.510 --> 00:38:47.910
with impunity and that operated from
inside the salvador and military

00:38:48.370 --> 00:38:54.348
reported on his meetings with Garcia in his
cables to the State Department in Washington

00:38:54.349 --> 00:38:59.884
DC Minister of Defense kernel Guillermo
Garcia and I met for an hour and a half.

00:38:59.885 --> 00:39:02.329
I told him that the
torturing and killing of

00:39:02.330 --> 00:39:06.709
unarmed civilians but its
security forces was unacceptable.

00:39:06.710 --> 00:39:11.059
Strongest piece of evidence I would say
or those directly disparaging comments

00:39:11.060 --> 00:39:14.899
about the generals in the
State Department cables.

00:39:14.900 --> 00:39:21.019
And once I spoke directly about the general
Garcia knows perfectly well that\'s

00:39:21.020 --> 00:39:24.169
some middle and low-level
members of the military are

00:39:24.170 --> 00:39:28.084
involved in death squads and
other right-wing violence.

00:39:28.085 --> 00:39:31.384
These cables long classified as secret

00:39:31.385 --> 00:39:34.729
are now a centerpiece of
the plaintiff\'s case.

00:39:34.730 --> 00:39:38.839
In the countryside elements of
the security forces torture

00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:42.949
and kill campesinos shoot up their
houses and burn their crops.

00:39:42.950 --> 00:39:47.029
Kernel Garcia made no promise
implicit or explicit.

00:39:47.030 --> 00:39:49.999
To put an end to the official violence.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:53.269
The reality is that the principal
threat to the stability of

00:39:53.270 --> 00:39:57.784
this government comes from the
officers of the high command.

00:39:57.785 --> 00:40:05.029
And I simply refused to that in military
assistance and pointed out that time.

00:40:05.030 --> 00:40:09.739
And again in the cable that El Salvador
was not going to fall to the left.

00:40:09.740 --> 00:40:13.639
The right would do itself in. Bye

00:40:13.640 --> 00:40:17.044
It\'s death squads and by
radicalizing the country.

00:40:17.045 --> 00:40:20.299
But it wouldn\'t be a takeover by the left.

00:40:20.300 --> 00:40:26.014
It will be a collapse of a government
that had lost all moral authority.

00:40:26.015 --> 00:40:29.449
The cases being tried
in a federal courthouse

00:40:29.450 --> 00:40:32.464
where TV cameras are
banished to the sidewalks.

00:40:32.465 --> 00:40:36.540
So it\'s print reporters who
are telling the daily story.

00:40:37.060 --> 00:40:41.269
My opposition to sending some of

00:40:41.270 --> 00:40:46.834
these military men to the United
States and how many and all

00:40:46.835 --> 00:40:48.619
about do you think came

00:40:48.620 --> 00:40:56.059
dozens and dozens and dozens and how many
do you think should be sitting there

00:40:56.060 --> 00:41:03.210
Those two guys oh la la.

00:41:07.630 --> 00:41:11.299
They of course they should have
been tried and El Salvador.

00:41:11.300 --> 00:41:18.634
Not here. It\'s 11:00 PM at
Kinko\'s in West Palm Beach.

00:41:18.635 --> 00:41:21.709
Reporter Hector silver
is failing his story to

00:41:21.710 --> 00:41:25.009
one of Salvatore\'s dailies
La Prensa graphical.

00:41:25.010 --> 00:41:26.749
I think knows hover.

00:41:26.750 --> 00:41:29.209
You have to perceptions of this case.

00:41:29.210 --> 00:41:33.199
You will find people that
think that this that

00:41:33.200 --> 00:41:35.389
bringing bringing these
case to justice here

00:41:35.390 --> 00:41:38.149
in the United States is
not good for the country

00:41:38.150 --> 00:41:44.539
Because it would reopen the warned software
war but you have another perception that

00:41:44.540 --> 00:41:47.914
this is important because it true about

00:41:47.915 --> 00:41:51.409
this case and other cases like
these has to be known in Salvador.

00:41:51.410 --> 00:41:54.364
And because until now there has been

00:41:54.365 --> 00:41:59.074
truffle recollection about all these
horrible cases that happened.

00:41:59.075 --> 00:42:05.839
This is where being worked especially the
next witness father Paul Schindler worked

00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.599
in El Salvador during the
seventies and eighties

00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:13.140
Sister Dorothy castle and
Jean Donovan We\'re colleagues

00:42:14.290 --> 00:42:18.829
At the trial Schindler explained
that their work was inspired by

00:42:18.830 --> 00:42:23.254
liberation theology which meant
a commitment to the poor.

00:42:23.255 --> 00:42:25.549
You\'re freeing people
you\'re helping them to have

00:42:25.550 --> 00:42:28.399
a dignity and then all of this
based on their own faith.

00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.439
If they would read the
scriptures and see what Jesus

00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:33.439
did and then try to say what
what can we do in that area and

00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:36.109
our own and our own lives in a country with

00:42:36.110 --> 00:42:40.099
a high illiteracy rate they
taught people to read and write.

00:42:40.100 --> 00:42:45.364
And they nurtured community leaders by
helping the people to organize and then

00:42:45.365 --> 00:42:50.614
to achieve education by
building schools or roads.

00:42:50.615 --> 00:42:54.544
So you begin to see leadership
being killed. We had

00:42:54.545 --> 00:43:00.169
The whole series of things like death squads
or they would go into a community and you

00:43:00.170 --> 00:43:06.139
know take out people and kill people or
people would disappear who had been leaders.

00:43:06.140 --> 00:43:10.024
They would begin to try to intimidate
the end people that work with us.

00:43:10.025 --> 00:43:14.629
But I think the direction of
the violence because you had

00:43:14.630 --> 00:43:20.209
so many catechism and people well
trained really got to you first.

00:43:20.210 --> 00:43:22.849
And then it it came into the city.

00:43:22.850 --> 00:43:25.459
It kinda SR model and Dorsey uh Marion all

00:43:25.460 --> 00:43:28.369
missionary and El Salvador
for more than a decade.

00:43:28.370 --> 00:43:31.069
Also testified at the trial.

00:43:31.070 --> 00:43:36.844
It just hit the students so badly just
to be young just to be a youth was

00:43:36.845 --> 00:43:40.564
They inject urine endangered species.

00:43:40.565 --> 00:43:44.809
The first very violent
thing was someone who was

00:43:44.810 --> 00:43:49.399
killed was dragged in on the back of
a truck they cut the rope and left

00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:53.374
and they are as pure scare technique as

00:43:53.375 --> 00:43:58.969
eyewitnesses Dorsey and Schindler describe
human rights crimes which took place just

00:43:58.970 --> 00:44:03.079
before or after the church
women\'s murders through

00:44:03.080 --> 00:44:06.139
their testimony the
plaintiffs hope to prove that

00:44:06.140 --> 00:44:10.029
the generals knew about and
tolerated such abuses.

00:44:10.030 --> 00:44:12.589
We began to see you know
in the area that we

00:44:12.590 --> 00:44:15.229
were Dorothy in June and
I was along the coast.

00:44:15.230 --> 00:44:19.084
And because it was it
became a dumping ground for

00:44:19.085 --> 00:44:23.539
People that had been taken had been
tortured had been killed and then

00:44:23.540 --> 00:44:25.669
their bodies were left so
that people would come

00:44:25.670 --> 00:44:27.949
and say positive we have a
body we don\'t know what to do.

00:44:27.950 --> 00:44:31.609
And so we\'d go in we would take
pictures and we would try to identify

00:44:31.610 --> 00:44:33.994
the body what he would do a write-up on

00:44:33.995 --> 00:44:37.159
when the body was dropped and
what were the circumstances.

00:44:37.160 --> 00:44:39.379
And then take these to the
Human Rights Office at

00:44:39.380 --> 00:44:41.419
the archbishop as we would
vary the body give it

00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:44.239
a respectful burial or depending There were

00:44:44.240 --> 00:44:48.960
some sections where they would throw the
bodies over the cliff into the ocean.

00:44:49.420 --> 00:44:52.999
There was a very popular
place for throwing because

00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:56.299
the road Kim afraid up to the
clip the edge of the cliff.

00:44:56.300 --> 00:45:01.369
And he was like almost a 300 yard drops or
you who so far you could barely see the body

00:45:01.370 --> 00:45:04.399
and the people would come
and say that they were

00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.549
they threw bodies over last
night and we would go down by

00:45:07.550 --> 00:45:09.979
ropes and find actual bodies with

00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:13.549
their heads chopped off or at
times their hands and so on.

00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:16.369
If they were defending themselves
as they were thrown over and we

00:45:16.370 --> 00:45:20.209
would build funeral pyres and
we would burn the bodies

00:45:20.210 --> 00:45:23.719
and then collect the
ashes and the bones and

00:45:23.720 --> 00:45:28.470
then give them a proper burial because it was
an impossible place to take the bodies out

00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:45.889
I always put me in a courtroom because
there\'s no there\'s no billboard or

00:45:45.890 --> 00:45:49.069
marquis up that says history
is being made here.

00:45:49.070 --> 00:45:51.919
You know I wish there was it
would clue us in a lot faster

00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.949
sometimes but for example
there were moments for me

00:45:54.950 --> 00:46:01.654
where I knew this is this is significant
far beyond this courtroom this this state

00:46:01.655 --> 00:46:09.655
this nation\'s plaintiffs are armed with
20 years or so declassified documents

00:46:10.235 --> 00:46:14.374
In their arsenal is the United
Nations truth commission report.

00:46:14.375 --> 00:46:17.269
It claims that up the 20 thousand cases of

00:46:17.270 --> 00:46:21.514
executions disappearances
torture that came before them.

00:46:21.515 --> 00:46:27.499
85% were attributed to the military
security forces and death squads.

00:46:27.500 --> 00:46:31.084
The report went on to name
general fetus Casanova

00:46:31.085 --> 00:46:34.849
as engaging in a cover-up of
the church women\'s murders.

00:46:34.850 --> 00:46:39.619
And at accused general Garcia
of making no effort to conduct

00:46:39.620 --> 00:46:43.219
a thorough investigation or
system questions prompted

00:46:43.220 --> 00:46:48.229
the United States to commission and
investigation which was called the Tyler report

00:46:48.230 --> 00:46:51.454
The jury also hears about the Tyler Report.

00:46:51.455 --> 00:46:55.309
In 1983 federal judge Harold Tyler went to

00:46:55.310 --> 00:46:59.374
El Salvador to evaluate the case
against the five guardsman.

00:46:59.375 --> 00:47:03.363
Although he accuses general
Venus Casanova of a cover-up

00:47:03.364 --> 00:47:08.194
Tyler concludes that there were no higher
orders to execute the church women.

00:47:08.195 --> 00:47:12.619
He bases that finding on the
existence of the special embassy.

00:47:12.620 --> 00:47:19.530
Evidence. Evidence that nobody else
was allowed to here until now.

00:47:20.630 --> 00:47:26.194
The secretly recorded tape the leader of
the team that killed the church women.

00:47:26.195 --> 00:47:30.409
For years the State Department
insisted that this special evidence

00:47:30.410 --> 00:47:36.390
this conversation proved that there were no
higher-order to execute the church women.

00:47:37.060 --> 00:47:42.109
Now declassified the special
embassy evidence is presented by

00:47:42.110 --> 00:47:44.824
the plaintiffs while the
conversation when reveals

00:47:44.825 --> 00:47:48.094
efforts by higher officers
to cover up the murders.

00:47:48.095 --> 00:47:52.080
The issue of borders is never discussed.

00:47:54.730 --> 00:47:59.689
Finally it\'s the generals
turn in the witness box.

00:47:59.690 --> 00:48:02.989
Somos innocently equal.

00:48:02.990 --> 00:48:06.094
We are innocent sent the studies.

00:48:06.095 --> 00:48:11.970
And when one is innocent you are
willing to respond police or nosotros

00:48:12.340 --> 00:48:16.519
That is why we came to the
trial say knowing that we

00:48:16.520 --> 00:48:21.049
have a clean conscience yeah if Libya.

00:48:21.050 --> 00:48:25.129
When General Garcia first took
the stand and he sat down and he

00:48:25.130 --> 00:48:28.579
drew the microphone to his mouth
and he started telling a story.

00:48:28.580 --> 00:48:33.349
This was a story that the world had
never heard before about the atrocities

00:48:33.350 --> 00:48:35.329
in El Salvador answering questions about it

00:48:35.330 --> 00:48:38.254
answering questions for so
many civilian deaths there.

00:48:38.255 --> 00:48:43.429
So it was extraordinary
absolutely on all levels.

00:48:43.430 --> 00:48:49.474
Last condition as k. It gets
it don\'t say 60 TIL Salvatore

00:48:49.475 --> 00:48:54.709
The existing conditions at the time in
El Salvador did not justified violence.

00:48:54.710 --> 00:48:57.949
If you\'ve gotten tomorrow
justified the measures taken to

00:48:57.950 --> 00:49:02.659
stop the violence that was to
come labial lanes here given me.

00:49:02.660 --> 00:49:07.759
In his testimony Garcia defended
the actions of the military as

00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:13.609
necessary against a Marxist subversive
movement that wanted to take over El Salvador.

00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:15.439
Lengthy Do tsunami.

00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:23.440
Cm beyond institution always tried to
avoid violence and withdrawal Yamaha.

00:49:24.120 --> 00:49:27.999
Constant called to the rebels
was to stop the violence

00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:31.714
windier and ovulate Xia
Yan to find other ways.

00:49:31.715 --> 00:49:39.184
A Okay. I believe that at some point it
is justified what we did at the time.

00:49:39.185 --> 00:49:44.239
This afford to maintain fortunately
the passions were running too high.

00:49:44.240 --> 00:49:47.089
And you know this grandfatherly logo I did

00:49:47.090 --> 00:49:50.700
everything that I possibly
could which is a lie.

00:49:51.190 --> 00:49:55.159
They are dumb and blind not to
know what was going on down there.

00:49:55.160 --> 00:50:00.334
No I think we need I think we need
to drive a stake through the arch.

00:50:00.335 --> 00:50:05.329
When General Garcia was asked why he
didn\'t investigate the barrage of

00:50:05.330 --> 00:50:10.444
human rights complaints about torture and
the killing of civilians. He often said

00:50:10.445 --> 00:50:15.390
It didn\'t have the knowledge or the
means to pursue an investigation.

00:50:15.910 --> 00:50:19.534
We were asked questions 20 years later.

00:50:19.535 --> 00:50:26.839
It is difficult to remember the specific
concrete facts that I see in saying that he\'s

00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:30.799
the only person the only
person in El Salvador who had

00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:33.169
no knowledge of the thousands of

00:50:33.170 --> 00:50:37.274
murdered mutilated bodies that were
left on roadsides all over the country.

00:50:37.275 --> 00:50:39.469
And I think the managers histone

00:50:39.470 --> 00:50:44.689
modifiers rebuild don\'t yet
tasted really shorter thing in

00:50:44.690 --> 00:50:52.579
Garcia has for years been well served
by his ability to deny everything

00:50:52.580 --> 00:50:56.074
You know nailing him down it\'s
like a meeting with someone that

00:50:56.075 --> 00:50:59.719
they\'re just not going to commit themselves
to anything you didn\'t know anything.

00:50:59.720 --> 00:51:02.389
He wasn\'t varies very sorry.

00:51:02.390 --> 00:51:04.770
And it went on like that.

00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:12.979
You say you do and then you say you know
Well and you say you will then you say you

00:51:12.980 --> 00:51:15.319
want to you know it\'s

00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.739
like the Georgia didn\'t order me to investigate
so I don\'t really have to investigate.

00:51:19.740 --> 00:51:22.284
But when I thought I had investigator
gave it to somebody else and

00:51:22.285 --> 00:51:26.220
then I didn\'t investigate so I didn\'t
have to investigate no matter what I do.

00:51:27.700 --> 00:51:31.639
What happened in El Salvador at
that time was that there was

00:51:31.640 --> 00:51:34.879
a separate commission
appointed to investigate it

00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:38.629
And there was even within two or
three days or commission came

00:51:38.630 --> 00:51:42.439
from the United States President Jimmy Carter
Center Commission there to investigate it.

00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:45.184
And within two or three
days of their arrival

00:51:45.185 --> 00:51:47.659
a separate independent
commission was appointed by

00:51:47.660 --> 00:51:50.194
the El Salvador and
government to investigate it.

00:51:50.195 --> 00:51:54.049
And these men were asked to
stay out of the investigation.

00:51:54.050 --> 00:51:56.509
So the hold them responsible
for an investigation that

00:51:56.510 --> 00:51:59.059
they were asked are ordered to stay out of

00:51:59.060 --> 00:52:05.790
was impossible may get with leaders
right here and see where we are.

00:52:06.640 --> 00:52:10.399
Leaders Casanova is going
to be first off that

00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:13.579
I want to be cross-examining
him this morning.

00:52:13.580 --> 00:52:17.404
There are many people who say
that you knew about this

00:52:17.405 --> 00:52:20.719
General fetus Casanova was questioned by

00:52:20.720 --> 00:52:23.509
plaintiff\'s attorneys about
the Tyler report which

00:52:23.510 --> 00:52:25.399
accused him of a cover-up during

00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:29.119
the militaries investigation
of the church women\'s murders.

00:52:29.120 --> 00:52:33.589
Tyler reported that the Guardsmen
had confessed to their superiors

00:52:33.590 --> 00:52:37.969
within days of the murders and
the very officer in charge of

00:52:37.970 --> 00:52:42.694
the militaries inquiry ordered the men
to be transferred from their posts

00:52:42.695 --> 00:52:48.930
and their weapons switched to thwart
the FBI\'s investigation of the crime.

00:52:48.970 --> 00:52:53.089
On the stand general Vedas Casanova pled

00:52:53.090 --> 00:52:59.314
ignorance where it precedented worth taking a
lanyard immunology and TOEFL kinetic Watson

00:52:59.315 --> 00:53:04.519
The ones that President Duarte
in 1984 after having been

00:53:04.520 --> 00:53:09.679
elected president Salvador was
asked in the United States about

00:53:09.680 --> 00:53:13.099
how I had acted in the
investigation in the case of

00:53:13.100 --> 00:53:19.159
the assassinated church women
heals us ill as he took all of

00:53:19.160 --> 00:53:24.304
the responsibility for conducting the
inquiry and took responsibility for

00:53:24.305 --> 00:53:30.814
its results tell us Tyler.

00:53:30.815 --> 00:53:35.509
And those are the same records are
judged Tyler mentioned that in

00:53:35.510 --> 00:53:40.699
spite of all inquiry\'s there was no proof
of higher orders and you want a salvo PVN

00:53:40.700 --> 00:53:44.809
Kidney you can be certain that
no National Guardsmen facing

00:53:44.810 --> 00:53:47.749
a 30-year Center was going to withhold

00:53:47.750 --> 00:53:52.110
the name of someone who gave him this
order and another will know already.

00:53:52.600 --> 00:53:57.769
But it\'s important the MAC that was always
at the end of the day that they enter.

00:53:57.770 --> 00:54:00.379
The last minute I would call them please

00:54:00.380 --> 00:54:03.469
because all maybe they had been
on the stand all day long it had

00:54:03.470 --> 00:54:06.229
just been pilloried by questions
about did you know about

00:54:06.230 --> 00:54:09.559
death squads yes did you know
about torture going on in

00:54:09.560 --> 00:54:12.589
the headquarters yes did you do anything
about it no Did you do anything

00:54:12.590 --> 00:54:15.664
about it no and at the end of it just

00:54:15.665 --> 00:54:18.169
worn down and tired and
speaking directly to

00:54:18.170 --> 00:54:22.864
the jurors about for conscience has
been clear that they did what they

00:54:22.865 --> 00:54:24.139
that they couldn\'t control.

00:54:24.140 --> 00:54:26.539
What happened and that\'s not
to say that they didn\'t

00:54:26.540 --> 00:54:30.109
contradict themselves and
at times got caught in lies

00:54:30.110 --> 00:54:32.809
on this damn particularly
general Garcia who so many

00:54:32.810 --> 00:54:36.424
times in his testimony
directly contradicted himself.

00:54:36.425 --> 00:54:40.789
One minute saying I know I didn\'t list

00:54:40.790 --> 00:54:42.769
up on the screen of all
those names published in

00:54:42.770 --> 00:54:45.349
the newspaper I didn\'t know
that was a death list.

00:54:45.350 --> 00:54:50.134
45 minutes later okay it was a deathless but
there\'s nothing we could do to stop them.

00:54:50.135 --> 00:54:52.114
He contradicts himself a lot.

00:54:52.115 --> 00:54:55.564
The most compelling evidence
for the genitals defense.

00:54:55.565 --> 00:55:02.164
Is there Legion of Merit Awards sign by then
Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger.

00:55:02.165 --> 00:55:05.074
They honor the contributions
the generals made

00:55:05.075 --> 00:55:07.939
Professionalizing the
military and furthering

00:55:07.940 --> 00:55:11.569
democracy and human
rights in their country.

00:55:11.570 --> 00:55:14.884
If bad moves left homozygous

00:55:14.885 --> 00:55:19.099
conducts you were in the famous
Cold War and they\'ll conduct and

00:55:19.100 --> 00:55:22.579
naturalists were in harmony
with the United States to

00:55:22.580 --> 00:55:26.479
avoid the expansion of Marxism
prevalent at the time.

00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:29.119
Why do you think they\'re going
to respond to this Bob I mean

00:55:29.120 --> 00:55:31.354
that they\'ve heard this avalanche that

00:55:31.355 --> 00:55:34.309
these Tempe barges avalanche
of evidence there numbed

00:55:34.310 --> 00:55:37.609
by it all a killings and every
horrible thing is out there.

00:55:37.610 --> 00:55:39.709
Now all of a sudden the United
States government\'s passing

00:55:39.710 --> 00:55:41.884
out these awards and
diplomas and certificates.

00:55:41.885 --> 00:55:45.244
They\'ve gotten shaken hands with
Bush and Carter and Reagan.

00:55:45.245 --> 00:55:47.239
And mind you wanna see these pictures

00:55:47.240 --> 00:55:49.084
military guys hugging them.

00:55:49.085 --> 00:55:51.934
I mean are they going to respond to that

00:55:51.935 --> 00:55:58.669
using disgust I think that\'s
the way I responded to.

00:55:58.670 --> 00:56:06.670
I\'m disgusted about the dam and next the
defense introduces a surprise witness.

00:56:07.010 --> 00:56:11.269
Ambassador Edwin core who was
appointed by President Reagan to

00:56:11.270 --> 00:56:16.939
El Salvador from 1985 to 88 years
when General fetus Casanova

00:56:16.940 --> 00:56:21.649
was Minister of Defense and the
number of distillery deaths

00:56:21.650 --> 00:56:24.169
and the number of tortures
and so forth began to

00:56:24.170 --> 00:56:27.750
go down and I repeat again
they were slippages.

00:56:28.810 --> 00:56:33.409
The plaintiffs attorneys object
to Corps qualifications as

00:56:33.410 --> 00:56:37.054
an expert witness because he
worked in El Salvador later

00:56:37.055 --> 00:56:40.399
than the period closely
examined at the trial

00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:44.989
the judge rules that the jury will
decide if he\'s a credible witness.

00:56:44.990 --> 00:56:49.759
And that\'s a record testifies that he
wants to provide a different perception

00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:54.769
of history and the one he\'s been reading
about in press coverage of the trial.

00:56:54.770 --> 00:56:58.429
There\'s a certain view about
El Salvador that there

00:56:58.430 --> 00:57:02.224
were just a group of people
down there who were all

00:57:02.225 --> 00:57:05.929
Human rights abusers and
cruel and and so forth.

00:57:05.930 --> 00:57:08.479
And that\'s not the way El Salvador was.

00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:11.419
That\'s not the way a number of people
in the armed forces where that\'s

00:57:11.420 --> 00:57:14.614
not the way all of the
people of means were.

00:57:14.615 --> 00:57:19.729
And they weren\'t just people
with white hats and black hats.

00:57:19.730 --> 00:57:25.144
There were terribly complex situation.

00:57:25.145 --> 00:57:29.284
As I tried to emphasize in El Salvador it\'s

00:57:29.285 --> 00:57:33.979
two steps forward and one back and maybe one
sideways and and sometimes two steps back.

00:57:33.980 --> 00:57:38.419
But overall there\'s been a steady
somewhat evolution and it\'s been

00:57:38.420 --> 00:57:44.610
a rough rough road but but historically
that\'s way democracy has been unfolding

00:57:46.290 --> 00:57:51.309
Ambassador core admits that no
military officers were ever

00:57:51.310 --> 00:57:56.750
prosecuted or punished for human
rights crimes during his tenure.

00:57:58.890 --> 00:58:03.114
He paints a picture for the jury of chaos.

00:58:03.115 --> 00:58:06.219
We had people who were on
the right and people who

00:58:06.220 --> 00:58:09.219
run the left who were out
of control there was

00:58:09.220 --> 00:58:11.919
murder on both sides and

00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:16.224
the spotlight of the human rights groups
and of the press was on the government.

00:58:16.225 --> 00:58:18.714
It was a horrendous situation.

00:58:18.715 --> 00:58:23.244
There\'s enough blame and there\'s
enough honor to go around for all.

00:58:23.245 --> 00:58:28.070
What do you think the strongest
elements of your defense was

00:58:29.260 --> 00:58:33.019
This was the second day of
deliberations for jury in

00:58:33.020 --> 00:58:37.639
West Palm Beach Florida and a wrongful
death suit involving four American.

00:58:37.640 --> 00:58:40.804
The real victory is that
we got the story out.

00:58:40.805 --> 00:58:44.119
The people of West Palm Beach the
people have Florida the people he

00:58:44.120 --> 00:58:46.909
then states know what kind of

00:58:46.910 --> 00:58:49.909
monsters would kind of Criminals
these men were they never

00:58:49.910 --> 00:58:53.899
punished anybody there was never
an officer of the court martial.

00:58:53.900 --> 00:58:56.839
And so everyone just simply
acted with impunity.

00:58:56.840 --> 00:59:00.019
And as a result of that that
made them responsible to

00:59:00.020 --> 00:59:03.169
former generals in the Army
of El Salvador accused of

00:59:03.170 --> 00:59:05.809
complicity in the murders of for us church

00:59:05.810 --> 00:59:09.634
women were cleared today by
a federal jury in Florida

00:59:09.635 --> 00:59:11.869
The verdict was sending
I think to everyone in

00:59:11.870 --> 00:59:15.274
the courtroom and I would even
go so far as to say even to Mr.

00:59:15.275 --> 00:59:18.259
Klaus I thought that by his reaction is

00:59:18.260 --> 00:59:21.904
comments afterwards that he
himself was surprised as well.

00:59:21.905 --> 00:59:24.799
And the families of course
absolutely stunned.

00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:30.409
When we heard the jury\'s verdict about
11 o\'clock I was shocked initially.

00:59:30.410 --> 00:59:32.704
Obviously very disappointed.

00:59:32.705 --> 00:59:35.389
You have to remember
though that this is not

00:59:35.390 --> 00:59:38.659
a vindication of the generals
what the verdict says is that

00:59:38.660 --> 00:59:41.838
the plaintiffs had a burden of proof

00:59:41.839 --> 00:59:45.874
and didn\'t meet that burden on the
facts as presented to the jury.

00:59:45.875 --> 00:59:47.614
I was sad today

00:59:47.615 --> 00:59:52.909
Very sad because I felt that ten of

00:59:52.910 --> 00:59:57.994
my American citizens didn\'t

00:59:57.995 --> 01:00:03.649
understand the enormity
of what was before them.

01:00:03.650 --> 01:00:07.759
I mean day after day witness
after witness it was so

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:13.920
clear it was just so clear that
these generals were so involved.

01:00:14.110 --> 01:00:18.244
I don\'t understand how they
came to their conclusion.

01:00:18.245 --> 01:00:24.750
That we will go on we are down
for the day but we\'re not out.

01:00:25.600 --> 01:00:29.463
Well it wasn\'t so much
that they weren\'t liable

01:00:29.464 --> 01:00:36.124
It was the instructions that the
judge gave us the plaintiffs.

01:00:36.125 --> 01:00:41.899
Suing the defendant\'s based on the
doctrine of command responsibility.

01:00:41.900 --> 01:00:48.454
That states that the commanders are liable
for troops under their affective command.

01:00:48.455 --> 01:00:52.429
The phrase affective
command then was defined.

01:00:52.430 --> 01:00:57.469
As being able to have
the legal authority and

01:00:57.470 --> 01:01:05.470
the control over the military that Jerry could
not get past the word effective command.

01:01:06.935 --> 01:01:11.884
If you can\'t control the populace
in a city how can you be antisocial

01:01:11.885 --> 01:01:18.199
How can you be expected to control
outlying primitive mountain areas it was

01:01:18.200 --> 01:01:20.539
the plaintiffs evidence that
convinced us that they didn\'t have

01:01:20.540 --> 01:01:24.694
control that\'s the that\'s
the that\'s the conundrum.

01:01:24.695 --> 01:01:29.419
It was it was it was so overwhelming
and it was called chaos.

01:01:29.420 --> 01:01:30.964
It was all these things happening.

01:01:30.965 --> 01:01:36.109
I think if any of us were allowed to go by
feelings we would have found them guilty.

01:01:36.110 --> 01:01:39.439
We really would have I really didn\'t
have those feelings of conflict.

01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:44.209
Unfortunately I did not feel like I had to
make a personal choice between following

01:01:44.210 --> 01:01:46.819
my instincts and my heart
and following the letter of

01:01:46.820 --> 01:01:49.834
the law I know there were responsible.

01:01:49.835 --> 01:01:53.809
But I was faced with
this point of law that I

01:01:53.810 --> 01:01:58.230
And the other nine of
his couldn\'t get past.

01:02:00.340 --> 01:02:04.339
And it\'s an evolving area law that command

01:02:04.340 --> 01:02:08.658
responsibility jury instruction was
something that we started working on

01:02:08.659 --> 01:02:12.829
meaning the plaintiff\'s lawyers
the judge and myself started

01:02:12.830 --> 01:02:17.419
working on the first day of trial because
it was going to come down to that.

01:02:17.420 --> 01:02:22.009
Close argued successfully for the
words effective command to be

01:02:22.010 --> 01:02:27.619
the first item in the jury instructions
that during never got beyond that language

01:02:27.620 --> 01:02:30.769
The facts were pretty much
undisputed and the trial.

01:02:30.770 --> 01:02:33.124
I mean what happened in
El Salvador happened.

01:02:33.125 --> 01:02:38.119
It says whether the law as the
jury was going to be instructed on

01:02:38.120 --> 01:02:44.224
the law would apply here and whether these men
could be held responsible under that law.

01:02:44.225 --> 01:02:48.199
The concept of effective command is

01:02:48.200 --> 01:02:52.789
not whether or not you\'re controlling
your troops as an initial question.

01:02:52.790 --> 01:02:58.294
The concept of effective command
is whether you are the commander.

01:02:58.295 --> 01:03:03.844
There was no question that trial of the
positions held by leaders Casanova see it.

01:03:03.845 --> 01:03:09.484
Once you are shown to be
in effect the commander

01:03:09.485 --> 01:03:15.364
then flowing from that
position our responsibilities.

01:03:15.365 --> 01:03:21.769
And the first responsibility is to
control the behavior of that troops.

01:03:21.770 --> 01:03:25.354
So they follow the
international norms of war.

01:03:25.355 --> 01:03:32.704
And those norms include not killing
or abusing unarmed civilians.

01:03:32.705 --> 01:03:36.949
As sad as disappointed
as I personally felt and

01:03:36.950 --> 01:03:40.549
of course the families of church woman
felt you know we have to look at

01:03:40.550 --> 01:03:45.919
it as something which now we have to learn
from and take into the future professor and

01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:47.749
attorney Patty blood directs

01:03:47.750 --> 01:03:51.903
the international human rights law
clinic at the University of California

01:03:51.904 --> 01:03:55.624
In Berkeley and for the class
this is the beginning of

01:03:55.625 --> 01:04:01.609
our simulation exercise based on
the Ford at all versus Garcia and

01:04:01.610 --> 01:04:04.339
venous test ANOVA case my co-counsel will

01:04:04.340 --> 01:04:07.339
argue that this verdict was erroneous
because it was predicated on

01:04:07.340 --> 01:04:09.919
fundamentally flawed
jury instructions within

01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:13.684
a few weeks of the trial and Florida
Professor Bloom students are

01:04:13.685 --> 01:04:15.769
arguing the pros and cons of

01:04:15.770 --> 01:04:20.374
the command responsibility doctrine
in the forward versus Garcia case

01:04:20.375 --> 01:04:23.209
And despite repeated assertions
that they did all they

01:04:23.210 --> 01:04:26.599
could the record shows that in
response to their armies campaign

01:04:26.600 --> 01:04:29.329
of violence the generals
consistently refused to

01:04:29.330 --> 01:04:32.524
act as US military policy and
command responsibility uses

01:04:32.525 --> 01:04:35.179
a knew or should have
known standard to hold

01:04:35.180 --> 01:04:39.034
commanders responsible for the
misconduct of their subordinates

01:04:39.035 --> 01:04:42.319
This standard includes an adoption
of the norms practices and

01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:45.634
principles of military policies
found at the international level.

01:04:45.635 --> 01:04:48.139
There was a lot of evidence which
showed that during the period in

01:04:48.140 --> 01:04:51.019
question El Salvador was in chaos and that

01:04:51.020 --> 01:04:56.329
the military was out of control so much so
that the defendants in this case weren\'t able

01:04:56.330 --> 01:04:58.609
to exercise the necessary command over

01:04:58.610 --> 01:05:01.909
the soldiers beneath them to allow
them to be found liable by the jury.

01:05:01.910 --> 01:05:05.449
Some critics say that these are really

01:05:05.450 --> 01:05:08.899
foreign policy show trials and they\'re
not really about justice there.

01:05:08.900 --> 01:05:13.999
Just an attempt to call the
US on the carpet again or re

01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:17.509
rehash old old grievances

01:05:17.510 --> 01:05:21.499
about what the US was or wasn\'t doing
in Central America in the eighties.

01:05:21.500 --> 01:05:24.184
I don\'t see it that way.

01:05:24.185 --> 01:05:28.969
And part of it is because I
see these cases fitting very

01:05:28.970 --> 01:05:33.934
much within a global movement this
isn\'t just an isolated thing.

01:05:33.935 --> 01:05:36.829
This is a case which is
happening at the same time

01:05:36.830 --> 01:05:40.669
that there was prosecution against
Pinochet at the same time

01:05:40.670 --> 01:05:44.059
Pinochet\'s returned to Chile
has meant a reopening of cases

01:05:44.060 --> 01:05:47.689
in in Chile there\'s a reopening
of cases in Argentina.

01:05:47.690 --> 01:05:51.184
There\'s declassification of
US government documents about

01:05:51.185 --> 01:05:55.759
VUSs participation in Chile and
the level of abuses there.

01:05:55.760 --> 01:05:58.009
The US was telling them you know what what

01:05:58.010 --> 01:06:00.394
you\'re doing is okay you
guys are doing a great job.

01:06:00.395 --> 01:06:02.914
You guys are exemplary

01:06:02.915 --> 01:06:07.099
Us government accountability
in the forward versus Garcia

01:06:07.100 --> 01:06:10.804
trial keep surfacing in
Professor blemishes classroom.

01:06:10.805 --> 01:06:13.069
And I think that\'s one of the
difficulties is now we\'re stepping

01:06:13.070 --> 01:06:15.829
in and telling them in and
you know what we were

01:06:15.830 --> 01:06:19.309
doing this completely wrong along
viewing those commendations

01:06:19.310 --> 01:06:22.789
In the United States support in
isolation in a courtroom in regards to

01:06:22.790 --> 01:06:26.569
these two individuals can be very
misleading to a jury that doesn\'t

01:06:26.570 --> 01:06:30.679
know the extent of what was going on in

01:06:30.680 --> 01:06:35.179
the United States wasn\'t
necessarily right I mean in

01:06:35.180 --> 01:06:40.279
many people\'s opinion I think to the extent
that the US can be held accountable or

01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:44.479
can have its actions you know put to
the light of day that that\'s also

01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:46.399
our responsibility as Americans to sort

01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:49.309
of to sort of fix the wrongs
that that we\'ve committed.

01:06:49.310 --> 01:06:51.739
And if we\'re somehow
complicit in that you know

01:06:51.740 --> 01:06:54.589
there\'s there\'s nothing wrong
with a process that you know that

01:06:54.590 --> 01:06:56.944
makes that makes those things known

01:06:56.945 --> 01:07:02.359
this question of impunity the
question of who will bear

01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:06.139
the responsibility for the
human rights abuses of

01:07:06.140 --> 01:07:12.184
these prior regimes has is one of
great sort of debate and discussion.

01:07:12.185 --> 01:07:15.814
In the whole international
human rights world and

01:07:15.815 --> 01:07:20.104
in the political arenas in
foreign policy arenas etc.

01:07:20.105 --> 01:07:24.469
Because I think that there\'s just a
lot of concern about what it means

01:07:24.470 --> 01:07:26.929
to make a transition to a new society

01:07:26.930 --> 01:07:30.630
and never really deal with
what happened in the past.

01:07:52.300 --> 01:07:57.859
It\'s been a month since the verdict and the
families of EDA forward and more Clark

01:07:57.860 --> 01:08:03.720
or in El Salvador to observe the 20th
anniversary of their sisters deaths.

01:08:07.710 --> 01:08:12.399
At the cathedral in the capital
hundreds of knowns priests and

01:08:12.400 --> 01:08:18.170
Lee workers from all over the Americas
of gathered for this special mass.

01:08:28.620 --> 01:08:33.909
In the rural mountain town where eat
afforded more Clark lived and worked

01:08:33.910 --> 01:08:39.084
local residents gathered to remember all
those who were disappeared and killed.

01:08:39.085 --> 01:08:41.799
So many people whose whose names we don\'t

01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:45.429
know but whose families remember
them wonder what happened to them

01:08:45.430 --> 01:08:48.729
And you never find out the truth
and it\'s because of them and on

01:08:48.730 --> 01:08:53.019
their behalf that we have pursued justice
in the case of before church women.

01:08:53.020 --> 01:08:59.270
Their precision ends in the cemetery
where ITA and mora are buried.

01:09:05.640 --> 01:09:10.089
On the other side of the country
the remote area where the women

01:09:10.090 --> 01:09:13.869
were killed is now a place
to remember their lives.

01:09:13.870 --> 01:09:18.684
A Bogan Delia tree grows where their
buddies were first discovered.

01:09:18.685 --> 01:09:21.369
We probably tried to prove too much.

01:09:21.370 --> 01:09:23.419
In other words we were trying to

01:09:23.420 --> 01:09:26.244
approve everything that happened
there solvable for 40 years.

01:09:26.245 --> 01:09:27.969
And we\'re really hoping

01:09:27.970 --> 01:09:31.929
more and more solid orange who
were in the country United States

01:09:31.930 --> 01:09:36.009
who abused by this machine will
come forward because now we

01:09:36.010 --> 01:09:39.159
have a a a statute and a way to

01:09:39.160 --> 01:09:40.610
facilitate

01:09:48.300 --> 01:09:50.619
these new laws

01:09:50.620 --> 01:09:52.899
are starting to resonate here in

01:09:52.900 --> 01:09:59.720
Washington DC home to the second-largest
community of Salvador n\'s in the country.

01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:07.464
During the civil war in El Salvador one in
five people fled most for the United States.

01:10:07.465 --> 01:10:10.264
Dr. one Romo Gaza is

01:10:10.265 --> 01:10:16.714
plaintiff in yet another lawsuit against
generals Garcia and betas guess ANOVA.

01:10:16.715 --> 01:10:22.384
This one brought by four Salvador
and survivors of torture.

01:10:22.385 --> 01:10:25.369
The Rama Gaza case is it\'s almost like

01:10:25.370 --> 01:10:31.054
the quintessential case that symbolizes
what really was going on in El Salvador

01:10:31.055 --> 01:10:35.433
because each one of the Rama
gossip plaintiffs represent

01:10:35.434 --> 01:10:41.239
a particular sector of Salvador in society
that was heavily targeted for persecution.

01:10:41.240 --> 01:10:44.689
Professor Bloom has worked
with the legal teams preparing

01:10:44.690 --> 01:10:48.139
both the Church women\'s case
and the Roman goes a case.

01:10:48.140 --> 01:10:52.669
The Roma goes at trial takes place in
the same West Palm Beach courtroom

01:10:52.670 --> 01:10:54.439
Based on this same doctrine of

01:10:54.440 --> 01:10:59.524
command responsibility and includes
many of the same witnesses.

01:10:59.525 --> 01:11:04.039
One of the huge differences of course
between their case and the case of

01:11:04.040 --> 01:11:06.469
the four American church women
is that they\'re alive and they

01:11:06.470 --> 01:11:09.199
will be in a courtroom
to tell their stories.

01:11:09.200 --> 01:11:14.629
And I think it\'s going to be much
more difficult for jury when they see

01:11:14.630 --> 01:11:17.989
these people and listen to
what happened to them to

01:11:17.990 --> 01:11:21.934
not want to try to really
figure out who\'s responsible.

01:11:21.935 --> 01:11:25.339
Doctor Roman goes a directs
a community health clinic a

01:11:25.340 --> 01:11:29.149
block away from this church
on Sundays after mass.

01:11:29.150 --> 01:11:32.550
He sets up shop in the church basement.

01:11:34.120 --> 01:11:37.249
It\'s an extension of the work he did with

01:11:37.250 --> 01:11:42.799
church-based community clinics in the
countryside of El Salvador back in 1980.

01:11:42.800 --> 01:11:47.494
On December 12th just ten days after
the church women were murdered.

01:11:47.495 --> 01:11:51.154
The security forces arrived in bizarro.

01:11:51.155 --> 01:11:55.849
At least by Daria Maitreya and they started
to fight with machine guns are the people who

01:11:55.850 --> 01:12:00.469
went to China and into the convent
that had been improvised into clinic

01:12:00.470 --> 01:12:06.319
Left-leaning two of the plaintiffs were
involved in the base Christian communities

01:12:06.320 --> 01:12:09.004
the base Christian communities
being the sort of

01:12:09.005 --> 01:12:13.924
living manifestation of liberation
theology the NEA they\'ve been there.

01:12:13.925 --> 01:12:17.839
I was coming from my job delivering
meat to the lady who sells it in

01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:22.920
the market and lasagna del
Mercado quantum freak out.

01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:27.739
When I was captured by three
or four guards and a man in

01:12:27.740 --> 01:12:35.740
civilian clothes and take into the National
Guard headquarters in sun Vicent join me.

01:12:35.810 --> 01:12:37.909
So authorise company arrows.

01:12:37.910 --> 01:12:42.484
And what we\'ll know what other friends
and I after walking for about an hour

01:12:42.485 --> 01:12:50.485
Y\'know Steinian were ambushed by
some Army soldier and Moscow was.

01:12:50.540 --> 01:12:55.159
They told us took another step
because he wouldn\'t kill us.

01:12:55.160 --> 01:13:00.664
So I\'m asking. The fourth person
was a university professor.

01:13:00.665 --> 01:13:02.089
He was abducted.

01:13:02.090 --> 01:13:04.189
He was teaching a class.

01:13:04.190 --> 01:13:06.709
He was caught out of his
classroom once some

01:13:06.710 --> 01:13:09.859
bogus thing about his car being
double parked or something he

01:13:09.860 --> 01:13:12.439
came out side for a second
and was abducted right on

01:13:12.440 --> 01:13:15.859
the street they immediately
they beat me then they\'d be me.

01:13:15.860 --> 01:13:19.714
And they\'d be me there
with the bachelor rifles.

01:13:19.715 --> 01:13:24.664
And I remember that one of my students who
was late coming late to the classroom

01:13:24.665 --> 01:13:28.999
He tried to help me But the
guy from the other two guys

01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:35.640
left and came to to threaten
him we later machine gun.

01:13:36.010 --> 01:13:40.819
All of the plaintiffs in the Roma goes
a civil suit against the generals.

01:13:40.820 --> 01:13:43.014
Now live in the United States.

01:13:43.015 --> 01:13:45.799
There are cases being
prepared by attorneys from

01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:50.014
the San Francisco Bay Center for
Justice and Accountability.

01:13:50.015 --> 01:13:53.193
The basic allegation is
a torture allegation

01:13:53.194 --> 01:13:58.714
The clients were all subjected to extremely
harsh treatment while they were in detention.

01:13:58.715 --> 01:14:02.239
There\'s also an arbitrary detention
claim on behalf of some of the clients.

01:14:02.240 --> 01:14:06.199
They were detained in official
military installations without

01:14:06.200 --> 01:14:07.849
any charges being brought
against them without

01:14:07.850 --> 01:14:10.339
any notice to their families
that they had been detained.

01:14:10.340 --> 01:14:13.879
We also allege that crimes
against humanity were committed.

01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:21.184
E beta Albert Catania Mimi Modula and they
saw surgical instruments in my backpack.

01:14:21.185 --> 01:14:26.134
A eukaryote on Kayla
Comandante lag reality.

01:14:26.135 --> 01:14:30.349
They thought I was a gorilla
command may evolve.

01:14:30.350 --> 01:14:32.239
Alchemy on.

01:14:32.240 --> 01:14:35.174
That is why I was dragged to a truck

01:14:35.175 --> 01:14:38.119
And then the cocktail mezzo piano
and then I was placed inside

01:14:38.120 --> 01:14:42.769
a helical antenna that was
tied to the helicopters

01:14:42.770 --> 01:14:46.459
window you may see uncommitted you and
I when we were flying and believing

01:14:46.460 --> 01:14:47.959
I was told I was going to be thrown out

01:14:47.960 --> 01:14:50.749
the window that imagine And
they would open the window.

01:14:50.750 --> 01:14:52.789
And tell me I was going to be thrown out.

01:14:52.790 --> 01:14:55.789
This kind of a case actually taking it to

01:14:55.790 --> 01:14:59.824
trial is a very rare thing and there\'s
a whole lot that we all have to learn

01:14:59.825 --> 01:15:03.589
about how to do it right and one of
the things that we don\'t know is

01:15:03.590 --> 01:15:07.939
given the horror of the
details of what it is that

01:15:07.940 --> 01:15:11.824
happened to our plaintiffs
how much is going to be

01:15:11.825 --> 01:15:18.180
the right amount to for our plaintiffs
took to talk about what happened to them

01:15:19.290 --> 01:15:24.219
I was tortured make em out on conceivable.

01:15:24.220 --> 01:15:28.104
They burned me with a cigarette choke.

01:15:28.105 --> 01:15:33.350
Me speechless they put
electric shocks on my breasts.

01:15:33.440 --> 01:15:39.039
I mean as us is thoughtless I
was threatened with a gun to

01:15:39.040 --> 01:15:45.404
my head with the

01:15:45.405 --> 01:15:49.879
much it hadn\'t UPS and they
stabbed My feet with a machete.

01:15:49.880 --> 01:15:57.880
Limit the embargo Nakashima they placed me
under the bed spring with my pregnant belly

01:15:59.980 --> 01:16:06.709
Time being magnesia wanted me to talk
about the church that the church

01:16:06.710 --> 01:16:13.399
was a gorilla instrument under the nuns and
priests were also gorillas and hot weapons.

01:16:13.400 --> 01:16:16.844
Latimer Yamanaka.

01:16:16.845 --> 01:16:21.874
There would arrive time and
again to torture and data kicks

01:16:21.875 --> 01:16:26.674
gold Beth PLOS but whose
other mucho lot chocoholic.

01:16:26.675 --> 01:16:28.834
They would use electric shocks

01:16:28.835 --> 01:16:35.599
everywhere in our lane

01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:41.910
while the tongue on the genitals and anus

01:16:43.240 --> 01:16:48.030
I was draped with a device
that stuck in my anus.

01:16:48.610 --> 01:16:55.230
And it was left stuck my anus for
three days than being a tango see.

01:16:56.320 --> 01:16:59.929
Call guile in there hanging position.

01:16:59.930 --> 01:17:01.864
Maybe they shot me.

01:17:01.865 --> 01:17:06.574
In my left hand you\'re busy Yankee ports
have equal v for being a leftist.

01:17:06.575 --> 01:17:12.304
They said give me this way.

01:17:12.305 --> 01:17:17.569
Mustn\'t that\'ll later they
set me on a chair but I\'ve

01:17:17.570 --> 01:17:24.034
had to watch the killing of a
young man from beginning to end

01:17:24.035 --> 01:17:30.540
Ongoing he was hanged by the
neck the neon colored girl.

01:17:31.030 --> 01:17:38.970
Solo loss ps to pump book or I\'ll be
his feet barely touching the floor.

01:17:41.380 --> 01:17:47.760
And they started to torture him common
Sacco they woke sale like a punching bag.

01:17:47.910 --> 01:17:53.940
They compete they tied a
bucket of stones to his penis.

01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:59.989
You miss Brahma God and I
and my son in my stomach.

01:17:59.990 --> 01:18:03.630
I felt he was popping out. So you\'re ready

01:18:04.150 --> 01:18:10.939
If I screamed or cried I was slapped in the
face to keep looking at what was going on

01:18:10.940 --> 01:18:18.940
though look at this on your list
our Kasem he was almost dead.

01:18:19.355 --> 01:18:24.514
He was barely breathing and
they don\'t know much about us.

01:18:24.515 --> 01:18:29.424
They opened him up with a machete.
Below the I don\'t.

01:18:29.425 --> 01:18:34.129
Have I didn\'t say cut open like a chicken.

01:18:34.130 --> 01:18:42.130
I don\'t know. And then they
force me to drink His blood

01:18:46.390 --> 01:18:50.779
She when she was

01:18:50.780 --> 01:18:55.564
released nearest Gonzales was dumped
with corpses at the side of the road.

01:18:55.565 --> 01:19:01.500
Her baby was born with torture related
injuries and died two months later.

01:19:01.540 --> 01:19:08.269
What are plaintiffs are asking is why didn\'t
you prevent these things from happening

01:19:08.270 --> 01:19:14.794
why didn\'t you stop these things from occurring
they feel a very strong responsibility.

01:19:14.795 --> 01:19:20.269
Quite frequently mentioned the people that
they were detained with who didn\'t survive.

01:19:20.270 --> 01:19:23.449
And and I think that they feel like this is

01:19:23.450 --> 01:19:29.449
their opportunity to speak on
behalf of those people and to say

01:19:29.450 --> 01:19:31.474
something should have been done.

01:19:31.475 --> 01:19:34.939
I think for most of our
clients even though they have

01:19:34.940 --> 01:19:38.839
the opportunity of getting a civil damages
judgment in other words the jury will

01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:43.714
say you are owed this much money
that is very low on their

01:19:43.715 --> 01:19:46.309
on their list of reasons for
bringing bringing a suit

01:19:46.310 --> 01:19:48.964
like this it\'s much more
about truth-telling.

01:19:48.965 --> 01:19:51.139
It\'s much more about turning knowledge into

01:19:51.140 --> 01:19:53.509
legal acknowledgment judicial
acknowledgment of what

01:19:53.510 --> 01:19:56.269
happened creating a legal
precedent so that maybe

01:19:56.270 --> 01:19:58.999
it won\'t happen again in the
future telling the story of

01:19:59.000 --> 01:20:03.829
a particular community the church
workers of Salvador university workers

01:20:03.830 --> 01:20:07.369
who were all targeted for abuse
bringing their story to light

01:20:07.370 --> 01:20:11.584
creating a public record of what happened
in a particular country. That\'s really what

01:20:11.585 --> 01:20:14.329
Most of the clients are seeking
I don\'t know maybe I can give

01:20:14.330 --> 01:20:20.209
some information historical
information just a couple of minutes.

01:20:20.210 --> 01:20:25.669
The Roma goes a case is fostered by a
new landscape of human rights law.

01:20:25.670 --> 01:20:30.079
Yet it\'s still may seem puzzling that
plaintiffs and defendants both from

01:20:30.080 --> 01:20:35.329
another country are addressing responsibility
for crimes committed in that country.

01:20:35.330 --> 01:20:37.729
In an American court room.

01:20:37.730 --> 01:20:40.249
That initial confusion I think

01:20:40.250 --> 01:20:43.009
is sort of a gut reaction and I
think it\'s important for people to

01:20:43.010 --> 01:20:45.409
realize that international law is part of

01:20:45.410 --> 01:20:49.309
the United States law in this country
has a duty to enforce international law

01:20:49.310 --> 01:20:51.889
That it\'s in our interests
to enforce international law

01:20:51.890 --> 01:20:54.559
if we have soldiers working
in the field we want to

01:20:54.560 --> 01:20:56.464
ensure that they\'re not the victims of

01:20:56.465 --> 01:20:59.794
the war crimes violations or
other human rights violations.

01:20:59.795 --> 01:21:03.049
So it benefits every nation to
strengthen these laws and to

01:21:03.050 --> 01:21:06.859
provide forums in which
these laws can be enforced.

01:21:06.860 --> 01:21:10.369
These folks live in this country now
they\'re part of our communities.

01:21:10.370 --> 01:21:12.469
And if they\'ve got claims
they should be able to

01:21:12.470 --> 01:21:14.749
bring them in a court of law
when they couldn\'t bring them

01:21:14.750 --> 01:21:19.879
in the court of law of the country from
which they fled in cases where there\'s

01:21:19.880 --> 01:21:24.379
an international violation
it\'s possible to take

01:21:24.380 --> 01:21:29.629
someone who has been involved in the
commission of the human rights violation

01:21:29.630 --> 01:21:34.279
in another country and make
them subject to the laws in

01:21:34.280 --> 01:21:38.839
a third country because of the fact
that there are certain kinds of crimes

01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:41.149
that are held to be so
internationally abhorrent

01:21:41.150 --> 01:21:43.849
that the people who are alleged
to have committed them

01:21:43.850 --> 01:21:46.339
or considered the enemies
of all mankind and

01:21:46.340 --> 01:21:49.079
can be brought into court wherever
it is that they\'re found.

01:21:49.080 --> 01:21:54.724
So on the one hand we\'re dealing with the
issue of child motion possible appeal.

01:21:54.725 --> 01:21:59.569
Back in New York can her wits is working
on both the appeal for the Ford case and

01:21:59.570 --> 01:22:04.714
helping to prepare the rumor goes to
trial with the west coast team Addie.

01:22:04.715 --> 01:22:08.299
Hi it\'s Kan. How are you
doing they are tackling

01:22:08.300 --> 01:22:12.044
the generals defense that
El Salvador was in chaos

01:22:12.045 --> 01:22:14.814
A common thread is it wasn\'t just chaos.

01:22:14.815 --> 01:22:19.974
It was determined it was a policy
it was happening at so many levels.

01:22:19.975 --> 01:22:25.674
You know the types of persecution were the
same that methods of torture were the same.

01:22:25.675 --> 01:22:28.749
The sectors that were
being decimated were the

01:22:28.750 --> 01:22:31.989
same you know and then you pull
that threat out and you go aha.

01:22:31.990 --> 01:22:34.689
This isn\'t this can\'t be an accident.

01:22:34.690 --> 01:22:36.489
This has to be planned.

01:22:36.490 --> 01:22:42.140
And these guys were in the rooms and in
the positions of authority to Planet.

01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:48.789
Forward is left with 2600
pages of transcripts from

01:22:48.790 --> 01:22:54.494
the trial that bears his name he\'s looking
for ways to assist the rollercoaster trial

01:22:54.495 --> 01:22:58.234
Preparing for the appeal of
the church women\'s case.

01:22:58.235 --> 01:23:00.574
The families were often asked.

01:23:00.575 --> 01:23:06.559
What do you want them to trial what did you
want from the trial and in our minds I

01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:13.009
think they\'ve trial was just an
important event but not the end event.

01:23:13.010 --> 01:23:15.964
We\'re talking here about

01:23:15.965 --> 01:23:21.169
a system about a government which murdered
tens and thousands of its own people.

01:23:21.170 --> 01:23:24.499
We\'re talking about a
government in El Salvador and

01:23:24.500 --> 01:23:28.564
the late 19 seventies and
19 eighties which got

01:23:28.565 --> 01:23:32.044
hundreds of millions into
the billions of dollars in

01:23:32.045 --> 01:23:36.720
aid the United States government and
that aid was used to kill its own people

01:23:39.250 --> 01:23:45.889
The principal purpose of the trial was to
remind and point out to the American people.

01:23:45.890 --> 01:23:49.410
What had happened in El Salvador.

01:23:50.560 --> 01:23:54.169
Our systems were for people among

01:23:54.170 --> 01:23:58.860
tens of thousands of people who were
murdered by this military machine.

01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:04.624
We will continue to press for

01:24:04.625 --> 01:24:06.634
revelation for the revealing of the truth

01:24:06.635 --> 01:24:09.810
just so that things like
this don\'t happen again.

01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:47.910
Yes.

01:25:22.990 --> 01:25:25.410
Yeah.

01:25:36.370 --> 01:25:44.370
Major funding for this program was provided
by the Florence and John Schumann foundation.

01:25:44.675 --> 01:25:50.359
Additional funding was provided
by the Jacob Burns Foundation.

01:25:50.360 --> 01:25:54.120
And the Soros documentary fund.

01:25:54.730 --> 01:25:57.679
This program was made possible by

01:25:57.680 --> 01:26:01.294
contributions to your PBS
station from viewers like you.

01:26:01.295 --> 01:26:09.295
Thank you. Pbs

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