WEBVTT

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[music]

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I always considered myself fortunate

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that I was raised by my grandmother at a time and place
where social services were not part of our community.

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Dancia, I\'m Tantoo Cardinal. Welcome
to \"As Long as the Rivers Flow\".

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A series of documentaries about native south
determination. Tonight\'s film Tikinagan is directed

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by Gil Cardinal. This is a \"Tikinagan\".
In Indian communities

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it\'s used for carrying babies. Tikinagan is

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also the name of an Indian run child
care agency in Northern Ontario.

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An agency which move control as social
services from here in Queen\'s Park, Toronto,

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north to their own communities.

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This hard hitting film was shot at the front lines
of the search for self-government. It reveals

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what happens to generations, when parenting is denied,
family structure is denied, livelihood is denied.

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That\'s changing, we are

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regaining control after generations
of distrust and abuse of power.

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[music]

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I drew, um,

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four agreements, one for each kid. And
it says here that the child has been

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in the care and custody of the
society for the past six months.

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Under a temporary care agreement
signed by the parents, the society.

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And since Alis – Alistair is only a
few years old now couldn\'t consent.

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This was made on the twenty
fourth of April, 1990, okay? Yup.

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Um, what we\'re doing is we\'re still going to continue the same terms and
conditions. Mhmm. \'Kay, signed for Alistair right here. Right here?

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Yes.

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[sil.]

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Okay, and this is Julius.

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Um, same thing.

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Mhmm.

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And, uh, there will be daily monitoring.
That means they\'ll

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be coming over here every day to
check on the newborn baby, okay.

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Once a week, your wife is to take the baby to
the nursing station for a well-baby clinic.

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Mhmm. And, I\'m gonna talk to the nurses,
and tell them like this is to be the

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case, eh. Mhmm. Okay, but the baby\'s
gonna stay with you guys, because, uh,

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baby\'s breast feeding.

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Thousands of our children have been
lost to the child welfare system.

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And, if this child becomes another, it\'ll be little
comfort to the family that the apprehension is made by

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a native worker working for native agency.

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Within our families and communities
the need for child protection

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services is a continuing reality.
But now, in northwestern Ontario,

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the Mishnadi Aski people
have taken control of their

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child and family services.

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And they serve with compassion, and respect for their cultural values.
But struggle daily with a fear in their people a bitter legacy

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of mistrust left over from the days
of the children\'s aids societies.

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[music]

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The Ontario government has taken over
the Children\'s Aid Society in Kenora.

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The government says, it did so to protect
the more that 400 children in its care.

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Karen Webb has the story.

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This morning the Ontario government ordered these workers to change
the locks in the doors of the Kenora Children\'s Aid Society.

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Like all the others in the province of
Ontario, this is a privately run office.

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At least it was until yesterday. Shortly after noon two officials of the
Ontario government and two members of the Ontario Provincial Police

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walked up to this building in Kenora, and
in to the offices of senior management.

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They fired the top three members of management,
confiscated the files, and gave them

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half an hour to clear out their desks.
Four out of five children

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here who need a social
worker are native children.

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Many of the people in downtown Kenora are Indian,
because the town in surrounded by reserves.

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Reserves which have major problems with unemployment and alcohol.
Here in Kenora there are many opinions about what did happen

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at the Children\'s Aid Society, but no one is
willing to talk. Karen Webb, CBC news, Kenora,

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Ontario. The government

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takeover of the Kenora Children\'s Aid Society
left a void in providing child and families

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services to the communities
of Northwestern Ontario.

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But the shutdown also led to the
establishment of Native controlled agencies.

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Tikinagan Child and Family Services
based in Sioux Lookout is one of

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these agencies.

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Most of Tikinagan\'s workers originally come from
the Reserves and communities they now serve.

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My name is Angus Chapman and I\'m
originally from Big Trout Lake reserve.

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But I lived down here in Sioux Lookout and

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I\'ve been with Tikinagan for two
years as a child protection worker.

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Tikinagan in the native
language means a cradle

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board, where you put a little baby in.
When you want carry it on your back.

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The child has to be cared for. To be in a
Tikinagan, it\'s got to be carried, and that is the

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agencies duty. To protect, to carry
children in safety as in a Tikinagan

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a mother carries child in safety.

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[music]

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Good morning, Initik(ph).

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Okay, how did you know this, uh,
this happened? How many times

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has the child, uh, mentioned this to you?

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Okay, is there any safe place
that you can take the child?

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Okay, and, uh, where does the grandmother

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live?

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Okay,

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okay, we\'ll get a worker in there, uh, to
investigate it as soon as possible. The,

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um, process that came about in establishing
the child and family services...

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Former executive director
Wally McKay was there

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from the beginning.

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The conservative government\'s position that, uh, they had taken over
the existing Kenora Child and Family Services and they were under

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tremendous pressure make good

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on which way they were going to go.

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And, because of the numerous problems that exist in
the Child and Family Services they needed to find

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an alternative. And one of the alternatives

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was to find a group of, uh, people
to assume the total responsibility

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of Child and Family Services.

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Five or six people were walking out of
that place and they were pretty loaded.

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Tikinagan has been involved
with this before, people who...

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Hello.

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It\'s from Wasmer.

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Isn\'t, um, there another
baby there right now though?

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Or, I don\'t know if she can handle two. Tikinagan
telephone services was fully designated

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as a children\'s aid society in 1987 by

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the Ontario government. The chiefs
created this agency with the

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responsibility of looking after
28 northern Wasnabi communities.

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Uh, there was a great excitement
in the Indian communities

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about, uh, we\'re going to have our own family and child
services. We\'re going to be looking after our own children.

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Or to end this. My sense of

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Jeremy and you. We have brought
families back together.

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We have children back in the communities, who are happy
because, they were brought back to their parents back together.

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We have husbands and wives who are living together, who
were separated. And we have, children of those families

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that are happy in a stable environment.

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Because we dared to try something.

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And then, we\'re going to have to,
um, go and examine the baby.

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As an agency we respect the wishes of
the chief in council of the community.

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We work with them, and they work with us.

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But overall Tikinagan
is the final authority.

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To ensure the safety and the wellbeing of

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the children in the communities.

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Good after noon, Tikinagan.

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The of service covers approximately

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25,000 square miles from Sioux Lookout to

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the Port Severn, Hudson\'s Bay area
in to the communities in between.

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[music]

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Presently I have, uh, 15 children
in my care. And I look after

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five reserves up north. Kasabonika,
and Wapekeka, Long Dog, Port Severn,

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and Big Trout Lake.

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[music]

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I was born here, about 33 years ago.

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And most of my life was
spent in this community.

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This is the only place
I really feel at home.

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I had a rough time when I was
growing up here as a youth, because

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there was nothing, um, very
much to do around here.

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And I, um, and I had to find my own, own
things to do. Like I got involved with

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gas sniffing, because there was
nothing else to do in the community.

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At nights we used to go around and cause

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trouble to the homes.
Break in and steal. It

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wasn\'t a regular thing, but it was
things that we did just to keep life

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exciting.

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[sil.]

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[non-english narration]

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[non-english narration]

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Our role as an agency is to support
children and families within

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their communities.

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To help the communities and child
and family care. That is our goal.

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Olivia was born on the fifth of

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February, 77. And it says

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here the reasons why, why, the

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parents, while your mom\'s isn\'t
able to care of you properly.

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One of the reasons, emotional problems.

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Alcohol abuse, poor house condition,

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and child involved in gas sniffing,

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child mentioned a suicide while she
was influenced of gas sniffing.

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Child is now uncontrollable to
reason mention one to five.

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Okay, and you\'ll be receiving services
while you’re here, residential care.

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That means, uh, however they care for
children here, their home. That\'s

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how they\'ll care for you. And also,

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whatever rolls that they set for their
children, that\'s what they set for you too.

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And also, your mother can
come and visit you here.

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Has she visited you since you been here?
No. No? Would you like her to visit

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soon?

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I don\'t know. Ya. Do you talk to her at all? No. No,
eh? What we need from you now is your signature.

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Just to sign your name saying that somebody

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read this to you, and that you
understand the agreement.

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That you are in care for six
months with Ron and Phyllis.

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And also that your mom in going to be notified,
and that she can visit you when it\'s arranged

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between Ron and Phyllis and Tikinagan.

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And that you can stay as long as she
wants, as long as she is not drinking.

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Okay, do you understand that?
Everything is open.

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So If you agree with this,
we\'ll have you sign

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right here.

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I\'ll put it right here and if you agree with this,
you can just sign your name right here. Right there?

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Ya, where the X is. Right there.

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[sil.]

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Eh, that\'s good, now I just witness

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this. Saying that I saw your wrote it.

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Okay, thank you and signature

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of parent.

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Customary care is, um, placing children

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within the community that they\'re from.

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And, if you have to remove them from their home,
place them within their extended family. Just

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to show that you\'ll be getting a copy.

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At times I feel it\'s a very heavy

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responsibility but at times
there has to be intervention.

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The old

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system was, if there was a problem

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within the community, children suffering.

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Um, the non-Native would just come
in and take the children away.

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And place them in a different
home away from the reserves.

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That\'s why now when you come into the reserve, the
native people are – are – They think you\'re going

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to come and snatch their
children away from them.

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That\'s the effect it has on them of the past
non Native agencies taking their kids away.

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[non-english narration]

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Rachel is disoriented about her future. She
isn\'t sure what the future holds for her.

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She basically has nothing to look forward
to. She has had several problems

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in the community. The reports we have had

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was that she was staying
out late at night and

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not following house rules at
home, and skipping school.

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She has, uh, talked about herself
worth that she\'s worth nothing.

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That as a little girl she was adopted
by the woman that she is being

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raised right now.

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[sil.]

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To a certain amount she does
regard Phyllis as her mother.

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But she\'s torn.

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[non-english narration]

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The society will take the child
into its care, custody beginning

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beginning October24. That\'s today.
Eh, and look

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April 25, 1991. That\'s six months...

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[non-english narration]

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No.

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[non-english narration] [non-english
narration] [non-english narration]

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Ya, ya.

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Okay, so you know the
agreement in signing this

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for being in care for another six months.
Do you want to sign it or...

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Don\'t you want to sign it?

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Do you feel that you don\'t need any
more assistance from Tikinagan?

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[non-english narration]

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So if you feel that you want us to
help you more in any way we can.

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You have to sign this. Cause

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you\'re, uh, over 12 years of age.

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And the reason why

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we\'re considering, why we\'re
wanting you to sign this is

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if you need any further help from us.

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Like if you need any special counseling, or if you need to deal
with some things in your personal life, if you feel things

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aren\'t working out at home. Or if you
have any bad feelings about other people

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or about yourself. And it\'s making
you angry, you need to deal with it.

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That\'s why we figured we\'d try and get
you some counseling. If you feel...

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If that\'s the way you feel or if you
don\'t feel you have any problems.

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Well, do you want to sign this?

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[sil.]

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[music]

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It gets frustrating that
the community is not

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receptive to the, uh, assistance that you are
trying to provide for the family or for the child.

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[music]

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It brings a lot of stress into

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my own mind, when you try to work
with the youth, the children.

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And you don’t see any change in them.

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[music]

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I do it because I care. I
care for the children.

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I care for the young people.

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I care for the elderly. In hoping
to see their lives turn around and

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have more meaning to life for them.

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And to see that there\'s more to
life than just gas sniffing.

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There\'s more to life than just feeling
hopeless and wanting to commit suicide.

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That there\'s more to life than just
sitting around and getting bored.

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You know, to move somewhere, to – to –
be determined to be able to accomplish

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something other than just
thinking you can do nothing.

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[music]

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So do – do you want to sign – sign this?

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[sil.]

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If, uh, it\'s right here. It\'s you have to

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sign.

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And, uh, if you\'re mother feels that you no longer
need to be in our care. All you gotta do to...

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To stop this is just write a letter.

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And then, this would – would be over.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
Okay? Okay. Okay,

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
here. You can sign it there.

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:55.000
[sil.]

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
Okay, thank you. And I\'ll
sign it here. October

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
24, 1990.

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
Some of the kids that we have worked with.
That have been in our care, have,

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
uh, slipped through our hands.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
And many times late at
night, the phone might ring.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
And right away, that\'s – that\'s
what I think comes to mind.

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
That\'s somebody calling from one of
the communities that I look after.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
That another young girl or
a young boy has succeeded

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
in terminating his or her life.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:53.000
[sil.]

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
[non-english narration]

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
The bandtimes(ph) service workers. Their, uh, main work
in the community is to visit the families that are having

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
problems in the home.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
Hello[non-english narration]

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
If they can\'t deal with the
situation in, uh, community

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
level. Then they phone us and –
and inform us of the situation.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
[non-english narration]

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
Because

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
I\'m a Tikinagan worker, sometimes I feel

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
alienated from my own people.

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
They feel that I have betrayed them

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
because of their past dealings
with Children\'s Aid Societies.

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
[non-english narration]

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:15.000
[music]

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
Each visit I make I see them again.
And just

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
reinforce the idea that we\'re not there to cause
them problems. Or to remove their children to

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
a non-native society.

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
Home, okay, that\'s fine.

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
At times, uh, I feel a certain
amount of disappointment toward

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
the parents.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
I get frustrated with the
situations we deal with.

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
Seeing the children not getting the attention and the
proper care that they should get from their parents.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
Due to their

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
problems that they can\'t deal with.
And they overlook their children.

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
A lot of things have
been going on in my life

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
that I needed to work on.

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
My attitude, my behavior. It became more important to
me to use drugs better than looking after my family.

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
[music]

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.999
All of a sudden I called Tikinagan
and told them I needed help

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.999
because I needed to get
myself straightened out.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
They took over and, uh, as a result
he\'s living with my parents now.

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
I know he\'s in good hands and I
don\'t have to worry about it.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:58.000
[non-english narration]

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
I\'m very happy with the decision he made.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
It takes a lot of, uh,

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
worrying, the load of me.

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
[sil.]

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
I think

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
you need a family,
somebody you could trust.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
Eventually, uh,

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
I have to make that decision
where I\'m going to have to

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
take him back and look after him.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
But, uh,

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.999
at his point and time in my
life, I don\'t think I\'m still

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.999
capable of,

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.999
um, looking after him.

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
I still make it a priority
to go and see him every day.

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
Show him that I love him and care for him.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
[sil.]

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:13.000
[music]

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
Let us sing the song, Jesus
loves the little children.

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
Jesus,

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
loves the little children.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
All the children of the world.

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
Black and white all the precious

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
in his sight. Jesus loves
the little children of

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
the world.

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
Jesus died for all the children.

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
All the children of the world.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
Black and white all the
precious in his sight.

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
Jesus died for all the
children of the world.

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
Jesus loves the little children.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
All the children of the

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
world.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
Black and white all the
precious in his sight.

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
Jesus loves the little
children of the world.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:55.000
[music]

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
What was it like when you live here.

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
Well you have to live
around drunks all the time.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.999
People that sniffed, I started
sniffing when I was eight.

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.999
So, I just said if they\'re
sniffing, why can\'t

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
I? Then I started. Even with
drinking, cause I always

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
see my dad drunk. So, I just

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
drank too. Osnaburgh

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
is one of the most troubled
communities in Canada.

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
The high rate of social and family disintegration has
resulted in many of Osnaburgh\'s children being placed in

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
other communities. The highway is what

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
makes Osnaburgh different.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
The devastation of this community
began with its relocation

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
from a remote area to the highway. For the convenience
of government. We have to look at the community\'s

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
problems in a holistic fashion. Osnaburgh
band chief, Roe Komminowash(ph).

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
Pain to go after that.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
A lot of our youth, or I would say 100
percent of our youth have been affected

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
in one way or the other by
the death of one loved.

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
And, uh, they have to also

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
cope with the fact that
a lot of our parents

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
tend to abuse

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
alcohol, they tend to abuse each other.
They tend to

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
abuse elders. So what goes on in the home,

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
I don\'t know. I susp – I have a
lot of suspicions, um, some of it

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
is like I said, is abuse, some
of it alcoholism. Some of it is

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
lack of parental guidance, supervision.
I mean, the list goes on and on.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
[sil.]

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
In the last couple of months,
it\'s been really bad for us.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
And my kids are really

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
starting to drink. I think

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.999
the main reason is my husband.
Well he\'s been really drinking

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.999
and, um,

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
last night I have to – I
had to put him in jail.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
And, I guess he\'s going to be kept in
custody for – \'till next court date.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
\'Till I guess that\'s when
you go to court again.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
And I\'ll have to work on
my kids while he\'s gone.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
See how they – they\'ll do while it\'s
not the young kids. It\'s the oldest

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.999
ones that – that are
causing the main, while

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
drinking.

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
I got help for Natalie, she came back.
She\'s back to the same

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
thing. She saw is on the
same track as when she left.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
Why did you come into care? Why did I come
into care? Cause I was sniffing a lot.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
And, uh, what started off

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
the gas sniffing. The gas sniffing.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
Well, my grandfather\'s death. Your
grandfather died in June? In June.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
My grandmother died in June, my
grandfather died in about 84.

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
Did you drink too? Yup.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
So, your mother couldn\'t
handle you and... Mmm.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
Well, I asked, I asked if I
can go away for a while.

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
And then my mom asked Tikinagan look... Ya.

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
Now when you said you started
sniffing when your grandfather died.

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
Ya, I did.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
Explain. Why didn\'t you want to stop?

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
Because I was hallucinating about
them, I wanted to see them some more.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
I wanted to see them.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
And that was the only way I
could see them by sniffing.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
So you missed your grandparents greatly.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
Ya. Why is that?

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:53.000
[sil.]

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
Cause I love my grandparents.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:18.000
[sil.]

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
What did they do for you?
They did everything.

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
They taught me things my
parents never taught me.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
Like watching my grandmother bead
making weavings(ph) and that stuff.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
My grandfather taught me how to
make – make fire that stuff.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
I thought

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
they, like, loved me more than

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
my parents did.

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:08.000
[sil.]

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
One of the major problems is identity.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
Identity in the sense that most of them have little
idea of their own background or their own history.

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
And the fact that they\'re always been told
from day one, their culture is backward.

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.999
Their language is dead or dying, their
traditions have no more meaning in this world.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.999
And one has to turn around and convince or
rekindle within them the hope that only

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.999
they themselves can turn around
and be authors of that change.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
And the rate of change can
be controlled by them.

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
[sil.]

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
You know if you examine Osnaburgh case a little bit and compare
it to other northern communities, uh, or for the areas that

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
Tikinagan is responsible for. Osnaburgh\'s
numbers are somewhat out of whack.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
And why is that? Well, we

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
have an awful lot of problems but seriously if one who
wants to turn around and, uh, work on the problems. One

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
has to deal with housing. I
have not got the statistics,

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
but I have suggested when I
needed 100 homes by today.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
And if I continue to do things the government
structures have been placed 50 years from now.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
I will still be requiring modern homes.
I will never catch up.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:43.000
[sil.]

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
To rebuild a community, you have to rebuild the
families. To rebuild the families, you need a home.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
That is one of the main
reasons why many of our

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
kids go out.

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
I think I was about 13 or 14 years old.

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
When I – when I left here.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
And I was sent out to reform school.

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
For – for two years, I
was there for two years.

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
And the reason why I did
that because I was unhappy.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
Like, around here, and about, um, the

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
liberal was I guess in a way.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
The way I see around me, and I just want to get
away from here. So the best way I see it was to get

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
in to trouble. So – so I did.

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
Then I start drinking.
Like, doing beenees(ph)

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
and all that. And at least
once I burned only one house.

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
Cause, um,

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
I know I was unhappy about
– about my parents.

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
The way they were and, uh, now I think

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
back the past I went, I went through.

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
I think about it a lot sometimes.

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
And that\'s why I don\'t want to see
any of my kids wind up like that.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
When they get into trouble when I was about

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
13 and then they went out west until 20. And then
he came home, and then he got into trouble again.

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
And then, um, they finally
took him to Kenora.

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
In to the group home there.

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
Oh, I wanted him helped. Because
we can\'t help him here ourselves.

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
In this community that\'s for sure.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
You never got support from

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
– from anyone here about it at all.

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
So I feel

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
very powerless, because I
know, like, one junior

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.999
bureaucrat (inaudible)

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.999
has more control over my community

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
than I do. One bureaucrat in
any of the funding agencies

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.999
has more control over
my community than I do.

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
My job is to beg on behalf of my people. I wish
not to beg anymore on behalf of my people.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
But we have to get away from that
mindset that\'s been developed

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
over decades of dependency
on, uh, particularly

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
in this case to the Park and Union Affairs.

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
Uh, we will try to provide
the solutions locally

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
to the best of our abilities. But from time to time
we will need access to outside resource people.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
That includes child and family services.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
The very fact that it is coming
here to discuss a case is – is part

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
of the way they should be going about it.

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
And we\'ve received a referral
back in 1998 in June regarding

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
behavior at school and her,
uh, appearance and personal

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
hygiene. And, uh, was also a speculation
of a physical abuse at that time.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
But there was no evidence.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.999
Back this spring, early in the spring,
that we received another referral. But

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.999
this time, uh, the kids became

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
parentless. That\'s when, uh,
there was a murder of a...

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
Discussions.

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.999
The case conferences in Osnaburgh, uh, was the
first time that we had the community level.

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.999
And the problem is given back to the
community. And the community deals with it.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.999
She needs a lot of help, support.

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.999
And also even in the future to

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.999
extend a customary cure with her.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
It is getting back to the original philosophy,
and dealing with – with the problem

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
at the grass root level.

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
And that, you know, that
is a positive approach.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:45.000
[non-english narration]

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.999
We have experience that two of the kids that are in
care with Tikinagan have been, uh, asked to leave

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
the community.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
Knowing background and her history
will she be asked to leave

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
the community in a year or two years?

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
And she\'ll be again rejected. And it\'s very important that, you
know, we are dealing with a human life. And there\'s a spirit

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
in this human life.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
The spiritual aspects of
the human being has to be

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
considered very important.

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
And as well as we think about the physical and the mental being of the individual.
Those are the issues we have talk about. And, uh, and, you know, I\'d like to

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
hear from you guys.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:48.000
[non-english narration]

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.999
I applauded the decision of the chiefs to turn around and create
the Native run that made the plans of children\'s aid society.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
But, I think it\'s time we turn around.
We\'ll take that decision

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
take it back to the individual communities and
examine. Is it going in the right direction

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.999
today? Or, are we just doing what the

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.999
funding agencies dictate that we do?

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.999
My perception at this point and time is that we are fundamentally
following exactly what the children\'s aid societies are doing.

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
[sil.]

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
The resources are all in apprehension.
Taking the

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.999
child out and just following just
what the old children\'s aid society

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.999
used to do. What needs to be done here?
Signed, dated.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.999
Signed, dated and delivered, eh.

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.999
Um, there has been a
growing distress with the

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.999
child and family services.
And when I was the

00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
executive director, I felt that distress.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
Uh, coming forth. As long as your administering uh, a
foreign legislation on the Indian people, the distress

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
will always be there.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
So the parents signed for the customary care? You have
taken an existing model and tried to unionize it.

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.999
And you could only do so much.

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.999
So you have the legislation there, one hand
saying one thing. The regulations attached to it.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.999
And we\'re trying to do
it as best as we can.

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.999
You know, we can\'t be free to deal
with each other as Indian people.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
Because we have to maintain the
requirements of the legislation.

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
Under the guidelines of foster care, you know, um,
you\'re not supposed to have gun in your home.

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
Well, on a reserve there\'s something wrong
with you if you don\'t have a gun in the home.

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
And if that\'s a criteria then,

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
uh, then that wipes out
the whole population.

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
From ever adopting a child or fostering. So,
those things, you know, have to be changed.

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
I have problems with Tikinagan. And I cannot
convincingly, uh, portray to my people what Tikinagan

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
is all about. When they understand
it, it\'s not quite what

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.999
it should have been.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.999
[sil.]

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.999
Most of our community membership view Tikinagan as
just an exercise as replacing white faces with, uh,

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.999
brown faces.

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.999
[sil.]

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.999
Uh, will have the children\'s aid before.
With, uh, they were always just

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.999
trying to take our kids away from us.

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:54.999
Not let ignore it.

00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.999
So many times I feel
almost scared to go and

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.999
apprehend a child or children.

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:09.999
I – I\'m afraid that I\'ll be misunderstood

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.999
and looked down on as – as a person that

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.999
just wants to hurt people by removing
kids out of homes that need help.

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.999
Or trying to break up families.

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.999
Being misunderstood as a person that
wants to break up homes and families.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.999
Which is not the, uh, the intention
of the philosophy of Tikinagan.

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.999
It is supposed to keep

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.999
the families intact. And keep
children within their own

00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.999
native environments and settings.

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.999
And that\'s where I feel that
I come in for that child.

00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.999
Because I care for him or her.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.999
I started drinking again.

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.999
It\'s really bad I tell you it\'s bad.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.999
The drinking.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.999
The drinking.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.999
There is even a little baby in
our house, the mother\'s drunk.

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:30.000
[sil.]

00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:39.999
So I said, why can\'t I drink too? I
just went along with them to the store.

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.999
I\'m drinking too, I can tell you that.

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.999
How do you feel about your
future here in Osnaburgh?

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.999
My future, it\'s going to go down the drain.

00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.999
It is.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.999
Why?

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:09.999
I know the way things are going right
now at home, it\'s the way I see

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.999
my future. I\'m a drunk. A drunk
getting picked up all the

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.999
time.

00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.999
And if I ever have kids of

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.999
my own, I\'ll never keep them.

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.999
I – they\'ll be taken away to some other

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.999
people here.

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.999
That’s the way I see my future.

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:50.000
[sil.]

00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:59.999
[music]

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.999
Now is the time to see
that the type of child

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:09.999
delivery service that we have,
is one that is realistic.

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:14.999
One that is community based.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.999
One that we can stand up to our children
in the future and say we did it right.

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:28.000
[music]

00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.999
The present situation with Rachel,
is that, uh, she\'s no longer

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.999
in our care. The consent
treatment she signed

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:54.999
to go for a treatment constantly,
she changed her mind about.

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.999
So basically she\'s on her
own in the community.

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.999
With Olivia, her mother
committed suicide in Osnaburgh.

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.999
And just recently her
grandmother died in house fire.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.999
She could stay with Ron
and Phyllis permanently

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.999
and become part of their family.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.999
I\'d like to say thank you to all
those families and communities

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:29.999
and members of those communities who have
had the generosity and the and the wisdom

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.999
to take some of our kids

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.999
and place them within their homes

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.999
and within their communities. We are
presently having hardships and difficulties.

00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.999
But, we see that there is going to be an
end to this hardships and difficulties.

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:58.000
[music]