WEBVTT

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Bernardo Kliksberg

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talks to people

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who helped change the world.

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All of them

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Nobel Prize winners.

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Rigoberta Menchú Tum

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Born on January 9, 1959

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In Uspatán, Guatemala

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That\'s fine.
Thank you.

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While her family

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was being tortured or killed

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during the Guatemalan dictatorship,

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Rigoberta

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began a peaceful fight

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to denounce the systematic violation

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of human rights

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suffered by her community.

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Her message

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reached the world.

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I won\'t need any notes, right?

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No, you won’t.

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I’ll ask you a few questions.
You already know all the answers.

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Nothing too complicated?

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Nothing complicated.

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In 1992, she was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

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She was the youngest in history

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and the first indigenous woman

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to achieve it.

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ETHICAL SCANDALS

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Rigoberta Menchú,
you are

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a role model for all humankind.

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The Nobel Peace Prize

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you received

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brought justice

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to a large segment of humanity
that has been persecuted,

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discriminated against, and continues
to be discriminated against today.

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You are the first indigenous person

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in history
to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

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How did you feel

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when they informed you from Oslo

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that you would receive
the Nobel Peace Prize?

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First, I had to set an example
in Guatemala.

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I invited about 50 prominent Guatemalans.

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I invited the army and its high command.

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I invited the guerrillas,
their high command, and mayors,

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as well as figures
no one had honored in years, like

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the late Mateo Flores, after whom

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the Guatemalan stadium is named,
but who had been overlooked in the country.

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I invited many people. I invited Guatemalan entrepreneurs,

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and Mayan organizations.

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So please don’t ask me how much
of the Nobel Prize money I spent,

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because the Nobel Institute
told me: “From now on,

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all expenses are your responsibility.”

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And I said: Well, it’s worth it.

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Perhaps it was a once-in-a-lifetime
opportunity to invite all these people.

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And most of them came.

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Some guerrilla members
didn’t want to attend, they didn’t come,

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but still, the gesture was made.

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Likewise, with the army,
some accepted, others didn’t.

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But I think the most beautiful part was knowing
that we might witness the signing of peace

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and not just hear about it afterward,
but be there as a key participant.

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And well, it was emotional.
It changed my life, of course, and my family’s.

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I reunited with my family
because for the first time, I found

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my little sister Anita, my sister Lucía,
who has since passed away,

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my brothers, and my oldest brother.

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And well, my husband Ángel
and I were already together.

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But much of his family was still
experiencing persecution.

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They had endured kidnappings,

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and the forced disappearance
of the Canil family.

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Many members of my husband’s family
had also died.

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So, it was like starting over.

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I restarted my family life, and from that point on,

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I started thinking about marriage,
because before, I felt

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that exile was our only option.

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What were your parents like?

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Well, my dad was a very

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pragmatic man.

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He looked for development alternatives.

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He improved the local seed.

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He planted

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a type of development
that still exists in the community.

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My siblings always worked

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in health first aid.

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They seemed like firefighters,
like soccer organizers.

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They were cooperativists.

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They were also organized farmers,
they were Christians.

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They worked with the church.
Watching them,

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they had so many things to contribute

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to our region,
but also to the town in particular.

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They were never just fighters
or protestors, right?

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They sought alternatives.

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There are people who knew my parents,

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especially my father,
and they still remember him today.

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They remember him
as a leader who sought

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options, even for integral development.

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Back then, no one spoke
about integral development.

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People talked about Indigenous communities
as those who were

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destined to be exterminated,
those who wouldn’t thrive.

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They were seen as

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backward cultures.

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But in reality, many of our people
sought the same as my father.

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My mother, on the other hand, was an Ajq\'ij.

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That’s what we call them: “Ajq\'ij Ajiyom.”

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Ajq\'ij is like a general doctor
in our Mayan culture.

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And Ajiyom refers to the woman
who takes care of all the babies

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born day and night,
because in my homeland,

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there are no hospitals,
no health centers.

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Most children are born at home.

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And so my mother dedicated herself to that
for many years.

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Thanks to that, today we have a great legacy,

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which is the knowledge
of ancestral medicine.

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There is immense potential in ancestral medicine

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in Guatemala, much of which
is part of my parents\' legacy.

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My siblings were cheerful,
they were never subdued.

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They sought alternatives. For example,

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my father would move
our house every two years.

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It’s true, our house was made of straw,

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cane leaves, or leaves from the mountains,

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which we used to build
the roof of the house.

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However, my father always moved
our house from one place to another,

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because I think he had this belief.

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He had this vision that we
couldn’t remain impoverished forever.

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That poverty is not human misery

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but rather economic poverty

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is just one aspect of poverty.

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In other words, they were deeply spiritual people.

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In an extraordinary way,
and Mayan spirituality has given us today

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the opportunity to visualize our lives.

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Many ask me about forgiveness,

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and I say, well, first,

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for us, forgiveness must be
a one-on-one process,

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something that involves
a deep recognition.

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And that\'s how our parents taught us.

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And well, we were fortunate to overcome

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genocide, tragedy, and slaughter

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and not remain victims forever.

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We have overcome that.

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Our memory is revealed in
our multicolored weavings today,

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in our extraordinary paintings,

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and in our community organization
that has always existed.

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So I believe my parents were not so exceptional,

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as there were many others making
similar efforts in Guatemala.

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I believe your parents gave you

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many ethical values,
but they couldn\'t give you land ownership,

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as Indigenous people have been so excluded.
But they gave you...

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we call it social capital,
phenomenal ethical values.

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Guatemala experienced a massive genocide.

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The commission led by Bishop Gerardi

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produced a report
that is respected worldwide:

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150,000 murdered, 1 million displaced,
and many disappeared.

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Two days after presenting the report,
the bishop was assassinated.

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The United Nations Commission
documented this in the same way.

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What does it feel like to be
one of the leaders

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of a people that has
suffered genocide?

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I must say it’s not easy because
many things remain among the population.

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One is terror, fear.

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People often stay silent, don’t participate,

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and abstain

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because of fear from the past.

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Moreover, the perpetrators of the genocide
have manipulated this social psychology.

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Saying, well, if you get involved,

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you will pay the price, with harassment.

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Another issue is that our people prefer silence

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because they know they have more to lose.

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First, their civilization.

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I think you’ve seen the amount of
photojournalism in Guatemala,

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and public ceremonies take place,
but that’s not truly what we have.

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In reality, we have something deeper:
a code of ethics, a way of life.

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We have ancestral values:
respect, reciprocity, unconditional love.

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All these are things that can’t be fully expressed.

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We also have great faith in our youth,

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because Mayan youth,
as they grow with more pride, become the majority.

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Today, the youth are becoming
the majority in the population.

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So it’s like we have to
measure what we need to do.

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And that’s why sometimes
parameters don’t align.

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But I do believe Guatemala is fortunate
because it survived

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genocide, barbarity, torture, forced disappearances,
and family persecution.

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People were pushed to extremes.

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I can’t imagine someone
extracting a baby from a mother’s womb.

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What kind of enemies
did these people seek in a mother’s womb?

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I can’t conceive of that.
And yet, it happened and there is evidence of this.

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We did significant work documenting this scientifically,

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even while facing great challenges
in securing resources.

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Why?

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Because nobody really wants to get involved
in a serious investigation.

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Everyone wants to see us Indigenous people

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perhaps as victims,
but they don\'t go beyond that.

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So we had to work and draw strength

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and strengthen some organizations
we have and fight against everything,

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because even the number of NGOs
that were created after the war

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divide us once again, I mean,

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they don\'t create a unified force
for the Maya people.

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The remnants of genocide
still persist today,

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the remnants of that tragedy
that, no matter what you call it,

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whether it\'s ethnocide,

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femicide, or feticide,
or all the cruel crimes

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that are known to exist
or are already categorized globally,

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were committed in Guatemala
in complete silence.

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But for me, the achievement

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is that I was the first to speak out,
to come forward, to publish a book,

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to demand space, to fight.

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But there comes a time when it\'s not about me.

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Many called me a liar,

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many said I made up the facts.

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They attacked me harshly, harshly.

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However, when more people began to speak out

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and when we started seeing
that there was evidence

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safeguarded by the people...

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It was overwhelming,
as if it had happened yesterday.

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So I realized that it\'s not me

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who\'s the protagonist today,
but others are the protagonists.

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And that fills me with immense pride,
it gives me great satisfaction.

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I consider this award

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not as a personal accolade for myself,

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but as one of the greatest achievements
of the struggle for peace,

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for human rights,
and for the rights of Indigenous peoples,

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who throughout 500 years have been

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divided and fragmented.

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And have suffered genocide, repression,

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and discrimination.

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Rigoberta Menchú

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Oslo, Norway,

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1992

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This was one of the most atrocious genocides
ever known.

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What kind of impact did you find globally
in response to your brave,

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persistent denunciation
of the genocide of your people?

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I think there are many people
who are in solidarity with us.

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Many people recognize our efforts,
many organizations

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have learned from us. In other places,

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they didn\'t see it
as crimes against humanity,

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but once they saw it as such,
they contributed to the proclamation

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of the Universal Declaration
of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples,

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Convention 169, consultations,

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and many issues we addressed and won.

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Now there are also detractors,
but I don\'t concern myself with them.

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I simply know they exist,

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and it\'s fine that they do,
but I honestly don\'t pay attention to them.

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I greatly enjoy seeing people

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who fight for memory, who work.

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There are museums. I am working to create
the Nobel Prize Museum in Guatemala

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and that museum
should honor our ancestors

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and exalt the good we have today.

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Why?

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Because I cannot tell my children
that we are only victims of abuse,

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of genocide, of death... only that.

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We must also rescue the other side.

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The Maya exist because they had
and still have a profound ancestral civilization,

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and that is the legacy of the future.

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So I think we have that beautiful side,

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and I praise the solidarity,

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because I did not sustain myself
with government funds.

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Governments support you
but then demand answers.

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There\'s no full autonomy,

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but if you work with generous people,
you achieve so much.

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and they support you little by little.

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That’s how we’ve made history, so

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I think we’ve done a lot,
but we haven’t documented enough.

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I believe that’s the task ahead of us
for the next 20 years,

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the next 30 years,

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to document thoroughly and with balance,
so we can close that chapter,

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so it never happens again
on our people’s lands.

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Well, that’s what we’re working on.

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Rigoberta.

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What progress do you see in the situation
of Indigenous peoples in Latin America?

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There is an infamous culture
of discrimination,

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there’s what you mentioned,
a lack of recognition,

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labor discrimination,
and various forms of prejudice.

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What progress do you see?

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I think each country
has its daily reality,

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and within that reality,

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there have been some legislative advances.

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For example, in Guatemala,
we’ve achieved

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recognition of our languages
as official.

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We’ve achieved certain
levels of acknowledgment.

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But we don’t rely solely on that
because impunity,

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essentially impunity,
is still reinforced by racism,

00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:19.000
neocolonialism, militarism, repression,

00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.440
and the criminalization
of Indigenous peoples.

00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.560
We feel it every day.

00:18:25.560 --> 00:18:29.880
In some places, we have
significant mediation experience,

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.560
because if we hadn’t combined

00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.760
alliances and the issue of

00:18:38.040 --> 00:18:41.680
alliances and negotiation,

00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.200
they might have exterminated
the Indigenous peoples

00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.200
by now. However,

00:18:49.560 --> 00:18:52.520
our people knew how to hide,

00:18:52.520 --> 00:18:55.800
how to maintain an agenda,
and that is the most important thing.

00:18:56.520 --> 00:19:02.000
I believe racism hasn’t ended,
and it won’t end soon.

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:07.000
Out of the system’s goodwill,
we will not be respected.

00:19:07.600 --> 00:19:09.840
We will be respected when

00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.480
we gradually begin to share
economic power,

00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.080
political power, military power,

00:19:16.800 --> 00:19:21.360
power within the institutional framework,
because another step

00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:25.040
we took in Guatemala
was the creation of the Winaq party.

00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.800
All our lives,
we were told Indigenous peoples

00:19:28.800 --> 00:19:34.120
couldn’t create a political party,
and that’s why we did it.

00:19:34.520 --> 00:19:37.920
No one believed us,
but we achieved it.

00:19:38.120 --> 00:19:39.360
I’m very happy.

00:19:39.360 --> 00:19:42.840
I hope that my comrades,
my sisters, my brothers

00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:45.800
will strengthen it in the future.

00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:51.920
96% of the Winaq founders
are Mayan,

00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:54.000
96%.

00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.720
46% are women,

00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.240
especially women who have been
at the forefront of this process.

00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.120
They asked why a Nobel laureate
would enter politics?

00:20:06.560 --> 00:20:08.080
Why not?

00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:10.720
Why can’t a Nobel laureate
also be an entrepreneur?

00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:13.120
Others are entrepreneurs.

00:20:13.120 --> 00:20:15.400
I could be one too.

00:20:16.040 --> 00:20:19.880
We have broken some patterns,
we have broken some taboos.

00:20:20.320 --> 00:20:25.000
We’re stigmatized, yes,
but when we

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.520
can break that stigma,

00:20:28.520 --> 00:20:32.400
I think we can break into more spaces.

00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:34.600
And it’s not a one-day struggle.

00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:37.960
I imagine you’ve fought
for many decades.

00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:42.320
and it\'s not decades, it\'s hundreds of years.

00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:49.400
And that is why we have a reason to
dignify the memory of our peoples.

00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.760
And I believe we agree deeply.

00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:57.920
If something happened to The Holocaust,
which affected the Jewish people,

00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:04.720
it is an indelible holocaust
in the memory of humanity.

00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.560
And that other one that happened to us

00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:12.520
is equally the most terrible cruelty

00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:16.040
that must not be forgotten by humanity.

00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.800
And I believe humanity
will not forget it,

00:21:19.520 --> 00:21:22.640
because we already have trials,

00:21:23.560 --> 00:21:27.400
we have taken our cases
to other courts.

00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:32.440
The National Court,
Judge Garzón opened a door for us.

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.480
I remember the joy
we felt in Guatemala

00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:39.480
when Pinochet was captured.

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.920
And we wanted to find that door,
that tunnel where we could

00:21:46.360 --> 00:21:50.560
submit our file, and we dared to.

00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:54.160
That meant
bringing family abroad again.

00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.160
My son, my husband...

00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.560
In eight days we left the country,
but we went to the National Court.

00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:03.760
When there is a tunnel

00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:06.240
and we see light, we go there,

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:08.760
and that is why we only seek

00:22:10.120 --> 00:22:12.320
formal justice.

00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:18.080
We have provided so much evidence for that,
for the good of our humanity.

00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:19.880
So thank you very much.

00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.440
Thanks on behalf
of all humankind for this fight,

00:22:24.760 --> 00:22:27.920
for the pursuit of a better world,

00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:33.480
a world without discrimination, with memory,
and a world at peace, in peace.

00:22:33.560 --> 00:22:34.640
Thank you very much.

00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.760
Likewise.

00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.240
Since 1993,

00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.880
Rigoberta continues her fight
through the Rigoberta Menchú Foundation.

00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:52.680
Her code of ethics
for an era of peace is:

00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.520
“There is no peace without justice,

00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:59.640
there is no justice without equity,

00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.000
there is no equity without development,

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.680
there is no development without democracy,

00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:07.800
there is no democracy without respect

00:23:07.800 --> 00:23:09.960
for the identity and dignity

00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:12.240
of cultures and peoples.”

00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:24.320
Any moment is a good one
to start changing the world.