WEBVTT

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(wings flapping)

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- [Tilda Swinton] Art
is a basic social need

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to which everyone has a right.

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Art is a way of building thought,

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of being aware of one\'s self,
and others, at the same time.

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Art is an invitation to questioning.

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It is the social place of doubt,

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of wanting to understand
and change reality.

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Art is not only a
statement of the present,

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it is also a call for a different future,

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a better one.

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Therefor, it is a right
not only to enjoy art,

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but also to be able to create it.

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Art is a space of vulnerability.

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Artists not only have
the right to dissent,

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but the duty to do so.

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The governments of
nations where artists work

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have the duty to protect
their right to dissent

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because that is their social function.

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To question and address what
is difficult to confront.

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Artists should not be sent to jail

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because of proposing a different reality.

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(wings flapping)

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(upbeat music)

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- This is a quick story
of censorshipping humor.

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I am 47.

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I travel the world.

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I have everything I wanted in my life.

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I\'m ready to lose everything.

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So I\'m just fine.

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No problem.

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The most important
statement somebody did say,

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I hope one day, freedom
of expression in Cuba

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doesn\'t have to be a performance.

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(wings flapping)

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I wanted to talk to an
expert who will understand

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how to survive post traumatic stress.

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To show it to people in Cuba.

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- Our species is being provoked right now.

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And what worries me most
is the way we react,

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not what they do to us.

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I\'m gonna do some interviewing of Tania,

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as though Tania were a patient of mine

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coming back from severe stress.

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- The first night I was in the detention,

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I talked to like, things.

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I\'m like, okay, if you --

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- [Dr. Frank] Are you
talking to the angels?

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- No no, I talk to specific people.

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I\'m like, I talked this dissident.

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Like, I was in my mind like okay,

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like if I go follow this dissident

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that was killed by the government.

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And I talked, this is crazy.

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John Paul the Second, which is crazy.

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Because I have a piece with
him for another artwork.

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And I say, well, if you guys really exist,

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I want to see a miracle.

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I want to see me out of here soon.

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Because in the detention space, the cell,

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they put this other woman.

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I think they put her there to scare me.

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And then I said, no, they didn\'t do that.

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I\'m just creating things.

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But you know what?

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They did, because I was alone
in a room with this woman.

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I had no defense if something happened.

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That was pretty intense.

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There is no law that protects the people.

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I was eight months during the process.

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Emotional but also legal.

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And I couldn\'t find a
lawyer who defended me.

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One of the first things
that I was accused of is

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harm the potential friendship between

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Cuba and United States.

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The second thing they came up with

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is that I\'m not an artist.

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That I\'m just a dissident,

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and I\'m just a traitor.

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Why they wanted me not to be an artist,

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because that way they can
judge me as a traitor,

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and not as an artist statement.

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- [Woman] Some of the
news broadcasts that I saw

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seemed to be building a
treason case against you.

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- Yes they were.

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- To be a traitor is to
get the death penalty.

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- I think they would have.

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(speaking in foreign language)

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- Then I had to defend myself,

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and saying this is performance,

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experimental performance.

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Which back lashed,

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because a lot of people now talk about

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performance in Cuba as
a way to do protest.

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Which is very beautiful.

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And then they start talking about me being

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agent of the CIA.

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I haven\'t ever met an agent
of the CIA in my life,

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and I would not want to meet them.

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Just the sole reason,

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because I don\'t want to be accused

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by the Cuban government about it.

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(speaking in foreign language)

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- Think about what happens to journalists

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in Egypt and in Iran.

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It\'s very easy to be accused of being

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a spy or being a traitor.

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So part of what I see as our dialog,

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it isn\'t just to express
what Tania believes.

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It\'s to understand what these risks are.

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- The system, or so.

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- Well no, I think it\'s to understand

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how the forces come after
the artist, the journalist,

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the person who is seeking truth.

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And truth is the enemy of the dictator.

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- What I did versus
what their response was

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was extremely disproportionate,

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and surprised me, actually.

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2,000 people signed a letter
in less than 24 hours.

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Like it was a big international campaign

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that my sister did.

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She was amazing, amazing,
amazing, amazing.

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- [Hans] Artists around the world

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calling on President Raul Castro

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to end censorship of the work of artists,

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and specifically to return the passport to

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Tania Bruguera so that she can

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travel outside of Cuba.

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- How are you now, by the way?

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You are in Havana, yeah?

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- [Tania] I\'m very happy
to be talking to you guys.

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I\'m very glad.

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- Tania, have you been able
to get a lawyer down there?

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- The lawyers work for the government.

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When the government,
the Fidel Castro regime,

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got in power, they right away realized

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how useful artists could be.

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Any kind of artist.

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And to be honest,

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the revolution sparked
a illusion of people.

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The promises were amazing.

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The idea of social justice is the most

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beautiful aesthetic
appealing for any artist.

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And they really did a
lot of wonderful things.

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I\'m not saying everything was wrong.

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Some artists wanted to
work for the revolution,

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then in the 70s,

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there was more Soviet
kind of moment in Cuba,

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and they wanted to impose
all this in the art,

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like this kind of more social realism.

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And first they were
censoring the final product,

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then they went into,

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we have to know what they\'re doing

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before they exhibit it.

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Or let\'s go before the exhibition is open,

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so they close it.

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- [Dr. Frank] They\'re going
to interrupt the process,

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an earlier finish.
- Exactly, exactly.

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And they have gone so far,

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that then after that they\'re wanting to

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have way with they had people in studios

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or visiting their studios
before the work is finished,

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until now what happened with
me at some point is like,

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they even censor you before
you even have the idea,

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which is fascinating to me.

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- Fidel Castro came to my
college when I was 18 years old.

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I saw him, and he was an admirable figure.

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He seemed --
- [Tania] He just should have

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stayed 12 years and leave there.

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Do two terms and leave.

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That was the mistake.
- Yeah, that\'s right.

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- Because he has been there for so long,

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he infantilized everybody else.

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He is the dad figure.

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Everybody is a kid.

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- [Dr. Frank] You said Fidel is a father.

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- [Tania] Yeah.

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An abusive husband, I think.

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- [Dr. Frank] Abusive husband?

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- Yeah, for the generation of my parents,

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he was the bad brother.

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You know, the brother with
the food or something.

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For the generation of my mother,

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he\'s more like the abusive husband.

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For my generation, he\'s like a father

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that is also abusive.

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But then there\'s the
generation of my sister

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and the people younger.

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He\'s like the grandpa
nobody cares about now.

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And Fidel had 50 years of 113,

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so what doesn\'t change is people

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transmitting generation
to generation the fear,

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and the fact that you don\'t
say anything in public,

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that you don\'t confront.

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Young people leave because of that.

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We have an older population than younger.

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They really want people to leave.

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And this is why I want to go back,

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because every time they have somebody

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that is uncomfortable,

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the solution is you leave.

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This is why you have two million

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Cubans in South Cuba.

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Over 11 million population,

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two million outside living than inside.

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That\'s a huge amount of --

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It\'s a fifth.
- [Dr. Frank] Yes.

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- Almost a fifth of the population.

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- They don\'t feel they have a place.

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When you\'ve been seriously traumatized

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and you have this condition, PTSD,

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your biological apparatus of remembering

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has been injured.

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There is a physical numbing,

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and there\'s an emotional numbing.

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In a term that\'s not in
the official diagnosis,

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but it\'s so important.

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It\'s called moral injury.

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It\'s Achilles out of the Trojan Wars.

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He risks his life for
his country and his king,

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and his king betrays him.

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So then there\'s a moral injury,

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a sense that the world no longer is just.

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- It\'s interesting you
say moral injury because

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this is what I see in Cuba.

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Not only how people see their leaders,

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which is related to what you said,

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but also the fact that people
are lying all the time.

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You never know who in your family

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is going to be the
person who\'s going to --

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- Betray you, yes.
- Betray you.

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You can not trust anybody.

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- And is that true of you, personally?

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- It is true about me, yeah.

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- [Dr. Frank] Well there were
so many different ways to go.

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Right now, we opened up
so many different doors.

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I think we should think
together about Cuba.

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- Let\'s go back to moral injury.

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Can we talk more about that?

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- Moral injury does not mean that

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your morality has been injured.

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You still have your morality.

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But you\'ve been betrayed.

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And the betrayal was so profound

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that it shook your faith in a just world.

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So can I ask you, have
you experienced that?

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- Once.
- [Dr. Frank] Once.

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- Well, I think,

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yeah, well, I do, like this.

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We\'ll do my father.

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- Yeah.

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- It was in 94, so I was
20-something, 25, 24.

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And I did this artwork
which was a newspaper

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that I did with all the other artists

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trying to address the situation.

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It was a good team because in Cuba,

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the newspaper don\'t talk about reality.

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The best newspaper we have
in Cuba is not in paper.

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It\'s people talking to each other,

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transmitting all the information.

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I made this alternative newspaper

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that I printed with all the artists,

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adding what they think.

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Using art as a way to talk more.

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And then the government got really mad.

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- Wait, let me bring this back.

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When you felt this
moral injury personally,

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it had to do with your father.

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- He came to my house as a policeman,

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not as a father.

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He came, and then he very like, okay --

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But I already knew the
police might want it too,

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so I put all the newspaper
in friends\' houses,

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so they were all around the cities.

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And I loved that.

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I have to say, like I really like that,

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because I love tactics.

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I love this idea of I\'m now doing this,

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let\'s see what happens.

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Then I gave him the newspaper

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because I\'m very weak with him.

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He became the repressive figure,

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which he has never been because

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he has never pressured,

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but also, enough discipline.

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He was never oppressive,

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but also he was
affectionate, not very close.

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Like he\'s very --

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And I adore him because
of that, unfortunately.

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That\'s very unfair that somebody
who\'s not there you adore.

00:16:19.990 --> 00:16:22.920
- [Dr. Frank] Well sometimes,
you don\'t see all the flaws.

00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:23.900
- Yeah, exactly.

00:16:23.900 --> 00:16:25.120
That\'s a good point.

00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:26.715
He\'s like yeah, let\'s come.

00:16:26.715 --> 00:16:27.630
I\'m going to see some friends.

00:16:27.630 --> 00:16:29.190
I\'m like, alright, let\'s go.

00:16:29.190 --> 00:16:30.910
And it was not unusual that sometime

00:16:30.910 --> 00:16:32.923
I go with him to some friends.

00:16:34.096 --> 00:16:38.540
And then we got there, and
there were these two men.

00:16:38.540 --> 00:16:39.540
One here, one here.

00:16:39.540 --> 00:16:42.270
And it was second floor.

00:16:42.270 --> 00:16:43.810
And then he said,

00:16:43.810 --> 00:16:46.510
well, these are secret, how do you say,

00:16:46.510 --> 00:16:48.370
FBI kind of notion.
- [Dr. Frank] What is

00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:50.139
it called in --

00:16:50.139 --> 00:16:51.638
(speaking in foreign language)

00:16:51.638 --> 00:16:52.943
- State security police, agents.

00:16:54.830 --> 00:16:57.980
And I was like, what?

00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:00.570
He never told me we were going to do that.

00:17:00.570 --> 00:17:01.903
So we arrive,

00:17:03.070 --> 00:17:06.260
and it was interesting because

00:17:06.260 --> 00:17:07.800
I felt very betrayed at the moment

00:17:07.800 --> 00:17:08.750
because I was like,

00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:11.290
why are you doing this to me?

00:17:11.290 --> 00:17:12.960
- Yeah, what are you doing?

00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.530
What\'s printing a truth?

00:17:15.530 --> 00:17:16.939
- Exactly.

00:17:16.939 --> 00:17:17.860
- And they say no,

00:17:17.860 --> 00:17:19.780
we\'re the only ones who
can print the truth.

00:17:19.780 --> 00:17:20.620
- Exactly.

00:17:20.620 --> 00:17:22.240
That\'s exactly it.

00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:23.740
And they treat you and they
make you feel guilty about it.

00:17:23.740 --> 00:17:25.580
My father was an ambassador at the time,

00:17:25.580 --> 00:17:27.260
so I think because of that,

00:17:27.260 --> 00:17:29.390
I was treated very differently.

00:17:29.390 --> 00:17:31.540
So I was better treated.

00:17:31.540 --> 00:17:34.630
My father came back from his post,

00:17:34.630 --> 00:17:37.700
and I was very nervous because I feel like

00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:39.010
I damaged his career,

00:17:39.010 --> 00:17:42.120
which is something that
was very important for him.

00:17:42.120 --> 00:17:44.020
Because after that, he stayed in Cuba.

00:17:45.360 --> 00:17:46.550
I\'m sure it has nothing to do --

00:17:46.550 --> 00:17:47.490
- [Dr. Frank] Because he wanted to,

00:17:47.490 --> 00:17:48.920
or because they didn\'t post --
- I don\'t know.

00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:50.110
He died and now I don\'t know.

00:17:50.110 --> 00:17:52.260
But I don\'t, and his wife died already.

00:17:52.260 --> 00:17:56.010
So I always had this guilt
like, oh because of me.

00:17:56.010 --> 00:17:58.218
Which is stupid because I\'m just,

00:17:58.218 --> 00:18:01.170
high politics do not work that way.

00:18:01.170 --> 00:18:03.474
- But this was your
father who brought you --

00:18:03.474 --> 00:18:04.307
- Yeah.

00:18:05.258 --> 00:18:06.720
Later I realized, I didn\'t
at least at the time,

00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.650
that he was actually part of this

00:18:08.650 --> 00:18:10.500
state security police.

00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:12.118
- [Dr. Frank] Your father was.

00:18:12.118 --> 00:18:13.368
- Yeah, he was a coronet.

00:18:14.300 --> 00:18:16.500
I was so mad at him.

00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.390
Worse than killing somebody is to be

00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:21.430
a cooperator of the system.

00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:23.419
He made me meet with them again

00:18:23.419 --> 00:18:26.910
because he wanted me to be part of that.

00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:28.450
And my mother said don\'t do it

00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:31.250
because if you do it, you
can never get out of it.

00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:33.380
So it was a very horrible thing

00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:35.840
because I wanted to be loved.

00:18:35.840 --> 00:18:37.170
I mean, I know love isn\'t right.

00:18:37.170 --> 00:18:39.958
Like, I want to be, like you
know what I mean, appreciated.

00:18:39.958 --> 00:18:42.480
And it was with something
I don\'t agree with.

00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.670
I think maybe like four
or five times, I met them.

00:18:45.670 --> 00:18:47.890
I pretended I didn\'t know anything.

00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:48.850
If you have something to say,

00:18:48.850 --> 00:18:50.370
they will keep calling you, right?

00:18:50.370 --> 00:18:51.960
But if you are like, oh I don\'t know,

00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.280
and then I start not going
to parties, not going to --

00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:56.330
Not wanting to hear what people are doing

00:18:56.330 --> 00:18:57.950
because I didn\'t want to know anything.

00:18:57.950 --> 00:19:00.450
So I think it created a
very horrible situation.

00:19:00.450 --> 00:19:02.160
They really treat you
like you\'re a criminal,

00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.000
and it was very hard not to think that.

00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.450
I used a lot of energy to
say I\'m not a criminal.

00:19:11.450 --> 00:19:13.190
I\'m not a criminal, I\'m not a criminal.

00:19:13.190 --> 00:19:16.240
And I did not allow
myself to feel anything.

00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:19.019
\'Cause I wanted to make
sure everything is rational,

00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:23.220
everything is like who
benefits, what\'s the next step,

00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:26.720
how to control the
narrative of the actions.

00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:27.963
- The inquisition.

00:19:29.499 --> 00:19:32.500
What does the inquisition do

00:19:32.500 --> 00:19:35.443
to the person who stands up to the tyrant?

00:19:36.618 --> 00:19:37.716
In the inquisition,

00:19:37.716 --> 00:19:41.300
it was tolerated by the Vatican.

00:19:41.300 --> 00:19:44.500
It was conducted by

00:19:44.500 --> 00:19:47.613
bishops, cardinals, and priests.

00:19:48.460 --> 00:19:51.813
And you of Spanish heritage
were closest to it.

00:19:54.850 --> 00:19:55.930
- A genetic inquisition.

00:19:55.930 --> 00:19:57.650
- When you think about it, though,

00:19:57.650 --> 00:20:00.640
it took a millennia to overcome that.

00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.310
- When I had to go to see these people,

00:20:03.310 --> 00:20:06.454
I had to lie all the time.

00:20:06.454 --> 00:20:10.900
And I became a liar, with everything.

00:20:10.900 --> 00:20:13.014
And I think that\'s very dangerous because

00:20:13.014 --> 00:20:14.290
you can become crazy, for real.

00:20:14.290 --> 00:20:16.830
- This is lying with the Cuban authority.

00:20:16.830 --> 00:20:18.910
- Yes, but then you have
to lie all the time.

00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:20.360
It becomes like a vice.

00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:22.016
So I started not talking to people,

00:20:22.016 --> 00:20:24.380
be more isolated.

00:20:24.380 --> 00:20:27.980
My case is not an isolated case.

00:20:27.980 --> 00:20:30.540
This is the story of many, many Cubans.

00:20:30.540 --> 00:20:32.800
Maybe it\'s not the father,
maybe it\'s the brother,

00:20:32.800 --> 00:20:34.193
maybe it\'s the husband.

00:20:35.050 --> 00:20:37.710
We even had cases that are documented.

00:20:37.710 --> 00:20:39.290
This is not a speculation.

00:20:39.290 --> 00:20:42.374
Where the government has
asked a man or a woman

00:20:42.374 --> 00:20:44.770
to become the partner of somebody

00:20:44.770 --> 00:20:47.710
as a way to survey the other person.

00:20:47.710 --> 00:20:50.560
They play a lot with
this idea of invasion,

00:20:50.560 --> 00:20:52.200
and they should have privacy.

00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.310
And how they feel they have the right

00:20:55.310 --> 00:20:57.880
because your privacy belongs to them.

00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:02.880
- This special trauma
of having your father,

00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.880
your government, suppress you, lie to you,

00:21:15.990 --> 00:21:18.860
and what does that do to the individual,

00:21:18.860 --> 00:21:22.223
and what does that do to what
the individual represents?

00:21:25.050 --> 00:21:29.410
Betrayal is a particular type of trauma,

00:21:29.410 --> 00:21:32.190
and you don\'t wanna be betrayed again.

00:21:32.190 --> 00:21:37.100
The problem with being
on guard about betrayal,

00:21:37.100 --> 00:21:39.220
is you can become paranoid.

00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:42.663
So suspicious of people
who are close to you.

00:21:43.936 --> 00:21:48.936
And you know, we need a certain
amount of suspiciousness,

00:21:49.350 --> 00:21:52.390
but not paranoia.
- Not paranoia, absolutely.

00:21:52.390 --> 00:21:55.760
All my work become about self censorship,

00:21:55.760 --> 00:21:57.740
and then I decided to leave the country.

00:21:57.740 --> 00:22:00.534
That was the real reason
I left, to study outside.

00:22:00.534 --> 00:22:02.896
- [Dr. Frank] And your ambition is to

00:22:02.896 --> 00:22:06.070
stimulate people to think, and to feel,

00:22:06.070 --> 00:22:07.320
and to express themselves.

00:22:07.320 --> 00:22:08.860
- Yeah.

00:22:08.860 --> 00:22:10.690
The piece has two moments.

00:22:10.690 --> 00:22:12.087
The beginning where you enter,

00:22:12.087 --> 00:22:16.510
and you are told that you
have to do a queue, a line.

00:22:16.510 --> 00:22:17.343
You have to wait.

00:22:17.343 --> 00:22:19.060
People have waited, I
know somebody told me

00:22:19.060 --> 00:22:22.240
an hour and 50 minutes, 45
minutes, like a long time.

00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:25.035
When it is your time, you
go through a lie detector.

00:22:25.035 --> 00:22:28.750
It\'s an officer who
actually works on that,

00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:29.773
that\'s his job.

00:22:30.710 --> 00:22:33.078
So once the person decide,

00:22:33.078 --> 00:22:37.060
you can enter or not the space.

00:22:37.060 --> 00:22:38.420
- [Agent] Have you ever deliberately

00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:40.134
overstayed a visa?

00:22:40.134 --> 00:22:40.967
- No.

00:22:43.290 --> 00:22:45.570
- Have you ever been
asked to leave a country

00:22:45.570 --> 00:22:47.110
for any reason?

00:22:47.110 --> 00:22:48.600
- No.

00:22:48.600 --> 00:22:51.850
- There is also a little detail,

00:22:51.850 --> 00:22:54.110
which is the people who are in charge of

00:22:54.110 --> 00:22:57.080
taking care of the queue, from the museum,

00:22:57.080 --> 00:23:01.933
have the authorization
to enter people randomly.

00:23:01.933 --> 00:23:04.433
(saw buzzing)

00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:08.000
Once you enter the space,

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.293
there\'s a maximum maybe
five, six people at a time.

00:23:12.872 --> 00:23:17.280
It is a reproduction
of a historical object

00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:19.940
that was stolen a few years ago

00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:22.450
in the Auschwitz concentration camp.

00:23:22.450 --> 00:23:24.090
There were four of the signs.

00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:26.760
The first one was done in Dachau,

00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:29.620
and it was done in 36,

00:23:29.620 --> 00:23:31.780
three years after the opening of the camp.

00:23:31.780 --> 00:23:35.650
The camp was a labor
first, then concentration,

00:23:35.650 --> 00:23:37.370
then extermination.

00:23:37.370 --> 00:23:39.613
The B is inverted,

00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.524
and it was gesture the
prisoner who made it

00:23:43.524 --> 00:23:45.693
did on purpose.

00:23:45.693 --> 00:23:49.540
A very tiny rebellious moment where

00:23:49.540 --> 00:23:51.880
he wanted to make something imperfect.

00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:53.860
Where perfection was a rule,

00:23:53.860 --> 00:23:56.730
and where perfection was the way to go.

00:23:56.730 --> 00:23:59.540
Officers were so arrogant,
they never saw this,

00:23:59.540 --> 00:24:01.270
but the prisoners were seeing this

00:24:01.270 --> 00:24:03.623
as a little very small hope.

00:24:04.490 --> 00:24:06.960
The first time I did
Tatlin\'s Whisper in Cuba,

00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.220
it was under the protection
of an art exhibition.

00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:13.720
And I was invited by the
main foreigner artist

00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:15.520
who was invited, to do something.

00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:17.010
So I was very protected.

00:24:17.010 --> 00:24:19.190
It was Guillermo Gomez-Pena.

00:24:19.190 --> 00:24:21.220
So I think it was the biennial,

00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:25.340
Guillermo Gomez-Pena was
the main special guest,

00:24:25.340 --> 00:24:28.850
and he told the biennial people

00:24:28.850 --> 00:24:30.210
that he wanted to work with me,

00:24:30.210 --> 00:24:33.230
so I was already two layers,

00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:35.960
plus all the international
press that comes,

00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:36.910
and all the art world,

00:24:36.910 --> 00:24:38.370
that\'s the moment where
the Cuban government

00:24:38.370 --> 00:24:43.010
wants to look good and open and freer,

00:24:43.010 --> 00:24:45.810
and not censoring anybody.

00:24:45.810 --> 00:24:49.260
So people can go off saying
like, hey, no, I mean,

00:24:49.260 --> 00:24:50.790
we saw this critical artwork.

00:24:50.790 --> 00:24:52.382
So that\'s not true, you know?

00:24:52.382 --> 00:24:56.096
And so all these layers of protection,

00:24:56.096 --> 00:24:59.370
but the piece I did
actually had consequences.

00:24:59.370 --> 00:25:02.920
I was banned to show in Cuba after that.

00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:07.510
They didn\'t tell me, I
didn\'t receive a paper.

00:25:07.510 --> 00:25:09.060
But I submitted projects,

00:25:09.060 --> 00:25:10.720
everybody\'s like, no, alright.

00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:11.620
It was weird.

00:25:11.620 --> 00:25:13.662
Usually you get, yeah, let\'s do it, no?

00:25:13.662 --> 00:25:16.884
And also because in 2013,

00:25:16.884 --> 00:25:21.884
I came to Cuba and I asked
the Minister of Culture

00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:23.930
to have a meeting and say,

00:25:23.930 --> 00:25:26.390
why am I having these problems?

00:25:26.390 --> 00:25:30.020
Why this foundation in Germany came here,

00:25:30.020 --> 00:25:32.040
propose you my work,

00:25:32.040 --> 00:25:33.670
a project I was going to do,

00:25:33.670 --> 00:25:35.030
and you said yes, let\'s do it.

00:25:35.030 --> 00:25:37.780
Give us the money, but let\'s
give it to another artist.

00:25:38.850 --> 00:25:39.683
And then they said, well,

00:25:39.683 --> 00:25:41.710
do you think we\'re going
to show your work again

00:25:41.710 --> 00:25:44.920
after what you did in 2009?

00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:47.583
So I realized that all
my speculation was real.

00:25:50.150 --> 00:25:54.880
I give 300 disposable
cameras to the audience.

00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.160
And my original idea about that was just

00:25:57.160 --> 00:25:58.250
focusing on the flash,

00:25:58.250 --> 00:26:01.290
kind of like making a
more realistic copy of

00:26:01.290 --> 00:26:02.877
what happened at this event.

00:26:02.877 --> 00:26:05.210
And the camera became the
protection of the people

00:26:05.210 --> 00:26:06.576
who were talking.

00:26:06.576 --> 00:26:10.493
(speaking in foreign language)

00:26:16.870 --> 00:26:20.400
- My documentation was
kidnapped by the secret police,

00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.360
so it was complicated when
we were installing because

00:26:23.360 --> 00:26:27.591
the quality of the video
is not like museum quality.

00:26:27.591 --> 00:26:29.623
But the thing is that\'s what I have.

00:26:41.043 --> 00:26:44.210
(audience applauding)

00:26:50.331 --> 00:26:52.664
(screaming)

00:26:55.550 --> 00:26:56.890
- [Woman] Why was it important for you

00:26:56.890 --> 00:27:00.660
to use the dove in Castro\'s symbols?

00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:02.920
- Fidel is the person that embeds

00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:05.799
the idea of the leader,
the contemporary leader.

00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.500
The leader that three
generations have known.

00:27:08.500 --> 00:27:11.010
I wanted to make sure that for this piece,

00:27:11.010 --> 00:27:13.290
people understood that
they could be the leaders.

00:27:13.290 --> 00:27:16.170
The moment where the dove
comes to the shoulder,

00:27:16.170 --> 00:27:18.300
it was a big discussion in Cuba.

00:27:18.300 --> 00:27:19.160
Everybody was --

00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:24.350
Okay, is this magic?

00:27:24.350 --> 00:27:25.440
It\'s meant to be,

00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.980
or this is something that
is constructed deliberately?

00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:33.660
So I think that by me
working with magicians

00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:35.320
who actually trained the doves

00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.250
to stay on people\'s shoulder,

00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:41.053
I think I solved that conundrum.

00:27:49.215 --> 00:27:50.903
You found more footage of it.

00:27:50.903 --> 00:27:53.540
When basically I passed
from the Minister of Culture

00:27:53.540 --> 00:27:55.513
to the Minister of Interior case,

00:27:57.030 --> 00:27:59.010
I say okay, I have to
change my game as well.

00:27:59.010 --> 00:28:03.390
I decided I was going to be
the most honest possible,

00:28:03.390 --> 00:28:04.340
and never lie.

00:28:04.340 --> 00:28:08.380
It was from 94 to 2014, 20 years.

00:28:08.380 --> 00:28:10.710
But I was able maybe to leave,

00:28:10.710 --> 00:28:12.890
probably the first experience,

00:28:12.890 --> 00:28:14.410
and instead of repressing myself

00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:18.643
and feeling like abused or unprotected,

00:28:20.541 --> 00:28:24.040
I felt like, no, I\'m empowered.

00:28:24.040 --> 00:28:25.130
And I know I\'m in a position

00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:26.730
you can put me in jail for 20 years.

00:28:26.730 --> 00:28:28.713
I knew I was risking that.

00:28:30.570 --> 00:28:34.060
You encounter two mounted police,

00:28:34.060 --> 00:28:36.238
dressed with their
uniform on their horses,

00:28:36.238 --> 00:28:39.970
who are actually using all the techniques

00:28:39.970 --> 00:28:42.590
they learn in their police academy

00:28:42.590 --> 00:28:44.990
and through their experience as policemen

00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:47.060
to control the audience.

00:28:47.060 --> 00:28:50.130
And I really like that
people here were reacting

00:28:50.130 --> 00:28:52.400
with the same kind of a spirit.

00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.320
Oh is this about controlling people?

00:28:54.320 --> 00:28:55.843
Is this about terrorism?

00:28:58.530 --> 00:29:01.567
My work is all about trying to get people

00:29:01.567 --> 00:29:02.490
to unlearn their behavior,

00:29:02.490 --> 00:29:06.360
that have been taught sometime
as a repressive way of

00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:08.460
responding to what happened in their life.

00:29:09.470 --> 00:29:13.040
There was a day where
Javier and Andrea came,

00:29:13.040 --> 00:29:15.600
and I always gave them names,

00:29:15.600 --> 00:29:17.640
because I think it\'s important.

00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:18.473
Maybe I\'m wrong,

00:29:18.473 --> 00:29:21.750
but I don\'t want them to be
this abstract police person.

00:29:21.750 --> 00:29:22.610
You know what I did?

00:29:22.610 --> 00:29:24.500
The day of my father\'s birthday,

00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:26.007
I said, oh, we have a surprise for you.

00:29:26.007 --> 00:29:28.243
And they came, they picked me up,

00:29:29.300 --> 00:29:30.690
I changed the hour, and they were like,

00:29:30.690 --> 00:29:32.402
oh my god, we have to shower,

00:29:32.402 --> 00:29:34.206
we have to arrange everything.

00:29:34.206 --> 00:29:35.823
I\'m like, what\'s going on?

00:29:35.823 --> 00:29:36.870
So I sat, and I said surprise okay,

00:29:36.870 --> 00:29:38.823
I thought it was my passport.

00:29:38.823 --> 00:29:40.330
And I was like, let\'s go,

00:29:40.330 --> 00:29:41.580
and then we go in the car,

00:29:41.580 --> 00:29:43.750
and I say, where are we going?

00:29:43.750 --> 00:29:46.810
They say, well, today is the 15th of July.

00:29:46.810 --> 00:29:48.740
I said, yeah, what is today?

00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:49.730
Like, the birth of my father.

00:29:49.730 --> 00:29:51.520
So they brought me to the cemetery

00:29:52.760 --> 00:29:54.300
where my father is buried,

00:29:54.300 --> 00:29:56.220
and then they say, oh, we
have a surprise for you.

00:29:56.220 --> 00:29:58.963
We went to the grave of my father,

00:30:00.410 --> 00:30:04.593
and he brought this,

00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:09.550
you know the stone and
they put in the names,

00:30:09.550 --> 00:30:14.550
and it says, Miguel Bruguera,
19 whatever to 2006.

00:30:14.621 --> 00:30:18.280
Revolutionary and father.

00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:19.470
- Oh.

00:30:19.470 --> 00:30:20.780
- And they put it there.

00:30:20.780 --> 00:30:24.320
It was a day of the week
where the cemetery was empty,

00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:26.437
\'cause middle of the day,

00:30:26.437 --> 00:30:28.659
and I saw this couple of young people

00:30:28.659 --> 00:30:31.000
sitting on top of a grave,

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:35.270
which you don\'t do if you
are going to see family,

00:30:35.270 --> 00:30:38.040
and then this car that was white

00:30:38.040 --> 00:30:42.460
with the black tinted windows,

00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:46.010
and then I look at that, and into the car.

00:30:46.010 --> 00:30:48.400
I didn\'t stay with them at this ceremony

00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:51.190
they wanted to do, like
private between us,

00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:52.130
and then to the car.

00:30:52.130 --> 00:30:54.280
And then they say, oh are you so hurt,

00:30:54.280 --> 00:30:55.410
you can\'t stand it?

00:30:55.410 --> 00:30:57.140
I\'m like, yeah yeah, I\'m very hurt.

00:30:57.140 --> 00:30:58.680
- But that wasn\'t true.

00:30:58.680 --> 00:30:59.513
- That wasn\'t true.

00:30:59.513 --> 00:31:01.990
They enter your car,

00:31:01.990 --> 00:31:04.061
and they say, how was that?

00:31:04.061 --> 00:31:05.130
That\'s very intense for you, right?

00:31:05.130 --> 00:31:06.579
That was --

00:31:06.579 --> 00:31:08.097
And it was so weird
because it\'s almost like

00:31:08.097 --> 00:31:11.920
they revealed that they wanted
me to be sad or something.

00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:14.053
And I was like, why were you filming me?

00:31:16.080 --> 00:31:17.180
What are you talking about?

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:19.140
You think I\'m not going to notice

00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:22.050
that that car that is
actually in the position

00:31:22.050 --> 00:31:24.600
that you can shoot
perfectly what is happening,

00:31:24.600 --> 00:31:26.819
and these two people?

00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:28.990
He was like, oh we are such bad luck.

00:31:28.990 --> 00:31:30.540
We always have bad luck with you.

00:31:30.540 --> 00:31:33.820
I\'m like, no that\'s not
bad luck, you\'re filming.

00:31:33.820 --> 00:31:36.720
Like, what do you want
to do with the film?

00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.670
What narrative are you
going to create now?

00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:40.056
Like I work for you?

00:31:40.056 --> 00:31:40.889
That we have this special thing?

00:31:40.889 --> 00:31:42.150
What is it?

00:31:42.150 --> 00:31:43.230
I was so mad.

00:31:43.230 --> 00:31:45.480
I was like, stop it there.

00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.030
You\'re talking about my father

00:31:48.030 --> 00:31:50.330
who gave his life for the revolution,

00:31:50.330 --> 00:31:51.640
who didn\'t pay attention to the family

00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:52.900
because of the revolution?

00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.550
And the day he died,
there was nobody there,

00:31:56.550 --> 00:31:59.270
and there was no flowers
from Fidel and Raul,

00:31:59.270 --> 00:32:00.960
and none of you guys,

00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.293
and he was part of your thing
because he worked for you.

00:32:04.293 --> 00:32:05.487
What are you talking about?

00:32:05.487 --> 00:32:06.540
And I started crying,

00:32:06.540 --> 00:32:08.557
but he misunderstood my tears.

00:32:08.557 --> 00:32:13.557
And my tears were not so
much about, I think now,

00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:16.776
it was not so much about,

00:32:16.776 --> 00:32:21.260
it was a sense of injustice
for everybody else in Cuba.

00:32:21.260 --> 00:32:22.880
For me it was very intense,

00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.600
not only because they mess with your,

00:32:25.600 --> 00:32:26.510
because that\'s their job,

00:32:26.510 --> 00:32:27.850
mess with your feeling, right?

00:32:27.850 --> 00:32:30.430
Like, try to dis-balance you so that

00:32:30.430 --> 00:32:31.650
they can manipulate you.

00:32:31.650 --> 00:32:33.630
I understand that, fair game.

00:32:33.630 --> 00:32:35.219
- But I think this was for propaganda.

00:32:35.219 --> 00:32:36.580
- But that\'s the thing.

00:32:36.580 --> 00:32:39.030
They have been filming
me from the beginning.

00:32:39.030 --> 00:32:41.540
The day they took me out of my house,

00:32:41.540 --> 00:32:46.540
there was a guy with a camera
in my face, in my face,

00:32:46.770 --> 00:32:49.050
and I was saying, what are
you going to do with this?

00:32:49.050 --> 00:32:53.710
Then, I wanted to the
station, the detention center,

00:32:53.710 --> 00:32:56.536
and they sat me, and this
guy was like filming me,

00:32:56.536 --> 00:32:58.200
and then they put the dress of the --

00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:01.895
I was dressed as a prisoner.

00:33:01.895 --> 00:33:04.470
They made me to change my --

00:33:04.470 --> 00:33:08.170
And this guy was like
filming all the time,

00:33:08.170 --> 00:33:10.150
and then everywhere I
go, they were filming.

00:33:10.150 --> 00:33:12.070
I was talking to my brother one day.

00:33:12.070 --> 00:33:13.800
He works next to my mom\'s house.

00:33:13.800 --> 00:33:17.330
And this person, you
know, nice, decent person,

00:33:17.330 --> 00:33:20.010
came to us, and said,

00:33:20.010 --> 00:33:23.060
hey guys, be careful
because there is some people

00:33:23.060 --> 00:33:24.936
that are filming you.

00:33:24.936 --> 00:33:28.230
There\'s a woman and
man who are filming us,

00:33:28.230 --> 00:33:30.870
and from the other side of the street,

00:33:30.870 --> 00:33:32.120
and then I stopped talking to him,

00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:33.073
and they follow me.

00:33:34.056 --> 00:33:36.800
I know they do this without you noticing.

00:33:36.800 --> 00:33:38.220
I know that at the beginning

00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:40.900
their strategy was to make me notice

00:33:40.900 --> 00:33:43.730
that I was being filmed and followed.

00:33:43.730 --> 00:33:45.495
Because they wanted to scare me.

00:33:45.495 --> 00:33:46.620
It didn\'t work.

00:33:46.620 --> 00:33:50.023
- Truth is the enemy of the dictator.

00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:56.020
And a dictator classically
has many weapons

00:33:56.020 --> 00:34:00.453
to destroy the bearers of truth.

00:34:01.570 --> 00:34:03.780
And you\'ve talked here with me,

00:34:03.780 --> 00:34:06.730
and I\'ve seen it and I didn\'t expect it,

00:34:06.730 --> 00:34:11.730
how guilty you feel for
telling truth to power.

00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:16.856
- So I feel like I always damage people.

00:34:16.856 --> 00:34:17.939
- [Dr. Frank] But do you?

00:34:17.939 --> 00:34:18.772
- I don\'t know.

00:34:18.772 --> 00:34:23.710
- Part of the burden of
responsibility that you have

00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:29.640
is you do bring others along.

00:34:29.640 --> 00:34:34.640
Revolutionaries gather others
to confront the tyrant,

00:34:39.340 --> 00:34:41.410
the person who has power.

00:34:41.410 --> 00:34:42.353
And it\'s risky.

00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.320
In a war, people die.

00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:50.380
The bullets fly.

00:34:50.380 --> 00:34:55.380
And in a confrontation through
art and public statements,

00:34:58.440 --> 00:34:59.990
people\'s reputations suffer.

00:34:59.990 --> 00:35:03.250
And you are going to do
things that are risky,

00:35:03.250 --> 00:35:06.780
that you can withstand.

00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:09.310
And other people are gonna be attracted

00:35:09.310 --> 00:35:11.603
to do this along with you.

00:35:12.790 --> 00:35:16.433
And they may not have the
same emotional strength.

00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:24.320
And you are, you should feel a
certain pain on their behalf.

00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:32.400
That comes with the
job, and I respect that.

00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:35.193
You\'re smiling.

00:35:36.456 --> 00:35:38.033
Tell me.

00:35:38.874 --> 00:35:40.070
- \'Cause I want to cry,
that\'s why I\'m smiling.

00:35:40.070 --> 00:35:41.757
- [Dr. Frank] Okay tell me.

00:35:41.757 --> 00:35:42.760
No no no, come on.

00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:44.460
- No no, I think you, yeah, sorry.

00:35:45.490 --> 00:35:46.323
- Tania,

00:35:47.176 --> 00:35:52.176
I think you are feeling
what the military people

00:35:54.210 --> 00:35:57.100
would call survivor guilt.

00:35:57.100 --> 00:36:01.440
You went into a form of battle,

00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:03.693
and you brought people with you.

00:36:04.530 --> 00:36:06.643
And they\'re not doing as well,

00:36:07.810 --> 00:36:10.320
psychologically as you are.

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:15.320
So you\'re feeling
responsibility and guilt, yes?

00:36:15.730 --> 00:36:16.563
- Yes, yes.
- Yes.

00:36:16.563 --> 00:36:18.670
And you\'re articulating that.

00:36:18.670 --> 00:36:23.096
What I\'ve learned is don\'t try to make

00:36:23.096 --> 00:36:26.563
a person like you feel less guilty.

00:36:27.670 --> 00:36:28.980
Don\'t.

00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:31.840
I\'m not gonna try to make
you feel less guilty.

00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:34.720
I\'m gonna say, your feeling of guilt

00:36:34.720 --> 00:36:38.860
is a product of having a good conscience.

00:36:38.860 --> 00:36:40.070
- I want people to be happy.

00:36:40.070 --> 00:36:42.170
I don\'t want people to feel bad, you know?

00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:44.613
- Yeah.

00:36:45.730 --> 00:36:50.270
I want to Sri Lanka after the tsunami.

00:36:50.270 --> 00:36:54.690
That was one of the
saddest situations for me,

00:36:54.690 --> 00:36:58.900
standing with simple people

00:36:58.900 --> 00:37:01.223
whose children had been washed out to sea.

00:37:03.330 --> 00:37:07.400
And I knew I was doing something correct.

00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:08.930
I was there.

00:37:08.930 --> 00:37:12.413
I was helping their
helpers know how to help.

00:37:15.040 --> 00:37:16.640
But not everyone should do that.

00:37:17.810 --> 00:37:21.950
And part of what the
inquisitor tries to destroy

00:37:21.950 --> 00:37:26.500
is self reliance, is self continuity.

00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:32.913
Tries to beat that down.

00:37:34.560 --> 00:37:38.060
It\'s not just torture and
that relief of torture

00:37:38.060 --> 00:37:41.903
so that you\'ll do what
the inquisitor is saying.

00:37:42.810 --> 00:37:47.810
It\'s to damage your sense
of self psychologically.

00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:49.800
You\'re still feeling it Tania,

00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.037
but I don\'t think that they got to you.

00:37:52.037 --> 00:37:53.750
- You think?

00:37:53.750 --> 00:37:56.457
- No, no, I don\'t think that they --

00:37:56.457 --> 00:37:59.736
- At the end, I felt like
they were getting me.

00:37:59.736 --> 00:38:00.840
At the end, I really did.
- Well, so you had

00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:04.180
enough sense to break it off.

00:38:04.180 --> 00:38:06.820
Now let\'s work on having
you be strong enough

00:38:06.820 --> 00:38:08.073
to carry that burden.

00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:11.010
- [Tania] That\'s actually the
title of one of my pieces.

00:38:11.010 --> 00:38:11.903
- [Dr. Frank] Is it?

00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:13.765
- [Tania] The Burden of Guilt.

00:38:13.765 --> 00:38:14.771
- [Dr. Frank] The Burden of Guilt.

00:38:14.771 --> 00:38:16.216
(\"River\" by Ibeyi)

00:38:16.216 --> 00:38:17.479
♪ I will come to your
river, wash my soul ♪

00:38:17.479 --> 00:38:18.957
♪ I will come to your river ♪

00:38:18.957 --> 00:38:23.957
♪ Wash my soul again ♪

00:38:24.136 --> 00:38:26.797
♪ Carry away my old leaves ♪

00:38:26.797 --> 00:38:30.712
♪ Let me baptize my soul with
the help of your waters ♪

00:38:30.712 --> 00:38:33.096
♪ Sink my pains and complaints ♪

00:38:33.096 --> 00:38:36.499
♪ Let the river take
them, river drown them ♪

00:38:36.499 --> 00:38:39.160
♪ My ego and my blame ♪

00:38:39.160 --> 00:38:43.194
♪ Let me baptize my soul with
the help of your waters ♪

00:38:43.194 --> 00:38:45.573
♪ Those all means are so ashamed ♪

00:38:45.573 --> 00:38:50.573
♪ Let the river take
them, river drown them ♪

00:39:01.421 --> 00:39:03.962
♪ Come to your river ♪

00:39:03.962 --> 00:39:06.899
♪ I will come to your river ♪

00:39:06.899 --> 00:39:11.899
♪ I will come to your river ♪

00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:16.657
♪ Come to your river, wash my soul ♪

00:39:16.657 --> 00:39:18.170
♪ I will come to your river ♪

00:39:18.170 --> 00:39:19.620
- We got into this conversation

00:39:19.620 --> 00:39:22.140
talking about a different Castro.

00:39:22.140 --> 00:39:27.140
Ariel Castro, who was a
bizarre man in Cleveland,

00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:33.030
who captured over a period of three years,

00:39:33.030 --> 00:39:35.300
three different women,

00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:40.300
and kept them in his
own home for a decade.

00:39:41.160 --> 00:39:42.799
- Locked up?

00:39:42.799 --> 00:39:44.150
- Yeah.

00:39:44.150 --> 00:39:45.610
- Here we are watching the sentencing

00:39:45.610 --> 00:39:47.040
hearing for Ariel Castro.

00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:49.870
This is going on live
in Cleveland right now.

00:39:49.870 --> 00:39:52.400
We are hearing a great
deal of dramatic testimony

00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.210
about what went on those nearly 10 years

00:39:56.323 --> 00:39:57.360
that three women were held in captivity.

00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.810
How Ariel Castro managed to do it.

00:39:59.810 --> 00:40:02.163
What he is trying to do is explain

00:40:02.163 --> 00:40:04.080
the psychological terror that was really

00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:05.973
inflicted on the three victims.

00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:10.458
- Padlocking them, putting
a helmet on their head,

00:40:10.458 --> 00:40:12.410
chaining them up in the basement.

00:40:12.410 --> 00:40:14.813
And then threatening,

00:40:16.210 --> 00:40:18.800
and then after a while,

00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:23.350
\'cause this went on for 11
years for the first one,

00:40:23.350 --> 00:40:24.820
10 years for the second,

00:40:24.820 --> 00:40:26.781
nine years for the third.
- What?

00:40:26.781 --> 00:40:30.003
- [Dr. Frank] The second one had a baby.

00:40:30.003 --> 00:40:31.370
- Were they in the same room?

00:40:31.370 --> 00:40:34.383
- Well, two of them were in the same room,

00:40:36.070 --> 00:40:39.950
and that room had a door that was locked.

00:40:39.950 --> 00:40:42.780
And the third woman,
whose name was Amanda,

00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:45.270
the mother of the child,

00:40:45.270 --> 00:40:48.060
occupied the outside room.

00:40:48.060 --> 00:40:50.110
And at one point, she
actually had the keys

00:40:50.110 --> 00:40:52.340
to keep the others locked up.

00:40:52.340 --> 00:40:54.670
I wasn\'t allowed by their lawyers

00:40:54.670 --> 00:40:56.940
to interview the women that he held,

00:40:56.940 --> 00:41:01.940
but I reviewed all the material.

00:41:01.970 --> 00:41:06.610
One of them kept a diary
every day for 10 years,

00:41:06.610 --> 00:41:09.750
longhand, and she wrote to her mother.

00:41:09.750 --> 00:41:13.860
Her mother died, and she
wrote to her mother in heaven.

00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:15.950
- Did she recognize what
was happening to her?

00:41:15.950 --> 00:41:17.443
Or she thought that was okay?

00:41:18.620 --> 00:41:22.470
- My job was to explain why they didn\'t

00:41:22.470 --> 00:41:25.260
find a way to escape earlier.

00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:28.443
And it\'s part of this trauma bond.

00:41:29.530 --> 00:41:31.944
That the person who does this to you

00:41:31.944 --> 00:41:35.203
eventually becomes the father,

00:41:36.620 --> 00:41:40.663
and when he is no longer
threatening to kill you,

00:41:41.580 --> 00:41:44.500
you almost, you interpret that as love.

00:41:44.500 --> 00:41:47.519
The tragedy of the battered woman is

00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:52.519
that she has continually
re-attracted to the bully

00:41:55.101 --> 00:41:56.703
when he doesn\'t bully.

00:41:58.120 --> 00:41:59.860
She\'s not a masochist.

00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:02.033
She doesn\'t like being beaten.

00:42:03.590 --> 00:42:08.590
But the pleasure of having
the pain remit, go away,

00:42:10.540 --> 00:42:14.010
reminds her of being a
baby who was coddled.

00:42:14.010 --> 00:42:18.820
All of a sudden, she\'s soothed.

00:42:18.820 --> 00:42:20.963
He\'s not killing me, he loves me.

00:42:22.344 --> 00:42:27.344
And also there\'s a period in
which you\'re like an infant.

00:42:27.520 --> 00:42:31.070
You can\'t eat, you can\'t
walk, you can\'t talk,

00:42:31.070 --> 00:42:34.753
you can\'t use a toilet,
unless he lets you.

00:42:35.870 --> 00:42:38.823
And then eventually as
he lets you do this,

00:42:39.850 --> 00:42:44.850
you have an ironic,
overwhelming, positive feeling.

00:42:48.370 --> 00:42:52.590
And if the gender is
right, it can feel sexual.

00:42:52.590 --> 00:42:55.170
If it\'s the senior magistrate of Rome,

00:42:55.170 --> 00:42:57.727
who I met with in the mid 70s

00:42:57.727 --> 00:43:01.600
who was held by the Red Brigades.

00:43:01.600 --> 00:43:04.510
He said, these are like my teenage sons.

00:43:04.510 --> 00:43:08.180
The guy who held \'em
hostage and didn\'t kill \'em.

00:43:08.180 --> 00:43:11.240
So they end up with
these positive feelings.

00:43:11.240 --> 00:43:12.683
Not all, but some.

00:43:13.890 --> 00:43:15.780
And that\'s called the Stockholm Syndrome,

00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:20.780
\'cause it was first observed
in 1973 in Stockholm.

00:43:23.190 --> 00:43:25.060
And I wasn\'t there.

00:43:25.060 --> 00:43:26.200
I was there afterward,

00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:31.100
but I became part of the
group that studied this,

00:43:31.100 --> 00:43:34.824
and learned how to instruct
hostage negotiators

00:43:34.824 --> 00:43:38.040
to be careful \'cause you think

00:43:38.040 --> 00:43:42.010
that the person who\'s
held hostage trusts us,

00:43:42.010 --> 00:43:44.200
and wants us to rescue them.

00:43:44.200 --> 00:43:49.200
But no, they can be way more affiliated

00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:51.070
with the person who\'s helping them.

00:43:52.740 --> 00:43:57.300
And then, you see this
happening in other situations.

00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:02.300
So where we\'re taking it
now is the other Castro,

00:44:02.660 --> 00:44:04.463
the Castros in Cuba.

00:44:05.603 --> 00:44:10.140
That they somehow, whether
they meant to or not,

00:44:10.140 --> 00:44:15.140
created a situation where
people love them, obey them.

00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:20.940
- [Tania] Fear them.

00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:25.940
- Fear, but have become
more accustomed to the fear,

00:44:27.410 --> 00:44:31.063
so the real thing that\'s
worrisome is the attachment.

00:44:33.110 --> 00:44:36.700
And I believe we are a species that,

00:44:36.700 --> 00:44:38.310
throughout our human history,

00:44:38.310 --> 00:44:42.093
has learned how to turn members
of our species into slaves.

00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.510
Does the slave like being a slave?

00:44:45.510 --> 00:44:46.850
No.

00:44:46.850 --> 00:44:49.180
- [Tania] Does he know he\'s a slave?

00:44:49.180 --> 00:44:50.013
- No.

00:44:50.013 --> 00:44:51.750
- [Tania] Does he know
there\'s another life?

00:44:51.750 --> 00:44:53.363
Other than that?
- No, no.

00:44:53.363 --> 00:44:55.763
- When I was in Cuba,

00:44:55.763 --> 00:44:56.596
(beeping)

00:44:56.596 --> 00:44:57.950
was the interrogator,

00:44:57.950 --> 00:45:00.680
I did develop some attraction.

00:45:00.680 --> 00:45:03.064
I have to confess.
- [Dr. Frank] Ah.

00:45:03.064 --> 00:45:05.000
- I wanted to say yes
to that, but I was like,

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:06.003
should I say that?

00:45:06.003 --> 00:45:06.836
And that was very interesting.

00:45:06.836 --> 00:45:08.040
- It goes both ways.
- Yeah, and I think there was

00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:12.580
maybe triggers, I think
this was very interesting.

00:45:12.580 --> 00:45:14.024
And it also happened with

00:45:14.024 --> 00:45:15.021
(beeping)

00:45:15.021 --> 00:45:16.563
Not that attraction, but this kind of --

00:45:16.563 --> 00:45:19.060
And it didn\'t happen
with the youngest girl,

00:45:19.060 --> 00:45:21.710
because she was more like
by the book kind of person.

00:45:22.664 --> 00:45:23.520
Like this is wrong, this is right.

00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:26.180
But I think these other people are very,

00:45:26.180 --> 00:45:28.200
many many years doing
this, they\'re more fluid,

00:45:28.200 --> 00:45:32.460
and better at their job, probably.

00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:36.200
You know, sometimes he told
me things to threaten me,

00:45:36.200 --> 00:45:37.980
in a nice way.

00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:41.817
Like I want you to do
this, for your own good,

00:45:41.817 --> 00:45:44.664
and you knew it was not for my own good.

00:45:44.664 --> 00:45:47.430
And that was intense.

00:45:47.430 --> 00:45:51.880
That was really intense because, yeah.

00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:54.373
And at the same time, I, you know,

00:45:56.070 --> 00:45:57.090
that was really intense.

00:45:57.090 --> 00:46:00.330
Yeah, this is intense.

00:46:00.330 --> 00:46:02.883
I arrived to do conversation,

00:46:02.883 --> 00:46:05.941
and I was like this.

00:46:05.941 --> 00:46:07.820
Like, I\'m not going to talk, like I don\'t,

00:46:07.820 --> 00:46:09.661
not aggressive, but I was like.

00:46:09.661 --> 00:46:14.661
Because I was like, I
won\'t tell you anything,

00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.010
and what you want to hear, doesn\'t exist.

00:46:18.010 --> 00:46:20.170
\'Cause they wanted me
to say I work for CIA,

00:46:20.170 --> 00:46:21.740
and I wanted to do all this shady,

00:46:21.740 --> 00:46:23.923
that is not true.
- Come on, yeah, yeah.

00:46:23.923 --> 00:46:25.420
- And it was very hard.

00:46:25.420 --> 00:46:26.830
And they really --

00:46:27.720 --> 00:46:28.840
I don\'t like to use torture,

00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.590
because I respect too much
people who have been tortured.

00:46:31.590 --> 00:46:33.399
- [Dr. Frank] Yeah, what
happened really, yeah.

00:46:33.399 --> 00:46:34.963
- For real, but it was really intense.

00:46:34.963 --> 00:46:39.064
It\'s like, and then I
was like this sitting,

00:46:39.064 --> 00:46:41.100
and he\'s like, do you think you want war?

00:46:41.100 --> 00:46:42.890
Like, let me, I can not say in English.

00:46:42.890 --> 00:46:45.203
It\'s like, I have to say it in Spanish.

00:46:45.203 --> 00:46:46.200
- [Dr. Frank] Say it in Spanish.

00:46:46.200 --> 00:46:47.203
- He\'s like,

00:46:47.203 --> 00:46:51.740
(speaking in foreign language)

00:46:51.740 --> 00:46:54.390
So it was so intense because
you develop some sort of

00:46:54.390 --> 00:46:56.770
relationship now, something in the way.

00:46:56.770 --> 00:47:00.480
So for example, I said,
oh, that\'s your bi --

00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:02.410
That day, they gave them motorcycles.

00:47:02.410 --> 00:47:03.970
I was like, oh, that\'s your motorcycle.

00:47:03.970 --> 00:47:04.803
He\'s like, yes.

00:47:04.803 --> 00:47:06.710
The number of my plaque is this this this,

00:47:06.710 --> 00:47:08.300
so if you want to do something to me,

00:47:08.300 --> 00:47:12.120
and make an accident with me
with somebody, you can do it.

00:47:12.120 --> 00:47:15.210
I\'m like, I\'m just trying
to make conversation.

00:47:15.210 --> 00:47:18.390
We just finished the session
of like interrogation.

00:47:18.390 --> 00:47:22.220
I\'m just trying to, you know, calm down.

00:47:22.220 --> 00:47:23.630
I think this, at some point,

00:47:23.630 --> 00:47:26.863
reveals a lot of information
that they can use.

00:47:28.150 --> 00:47:31.980
- They are working for a government

00:47:32.963 --> 00:47:36.080
that has traditionally had an inquisition

00:47:36.080 --> 00:47:37.970
as one of its tools.

00:47:37.970 --> 00:47:41.250
And the dissident whose motive is

00:47:41.250 --> 00:47:43.544
to free the people to be
independent is a threat.

00:47:43.544 --> 00:47:46.800
It\'s not that different from

00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:50.003
the secret police of any
totalitarian country.

00:47:50.003 --> 00:47:52.586
(upbeat music)

00:48:23.770 --> 00:48:27.070
When we\'re thinking
about Cuba, I\'m hopeful.

00:48:27.070 --> 00:48:31.563
I think a Cuban American
connection can be very different

00:48:31.563 --> 00:48:33.853
from the way it\'s been in the past.

00:48:39.723 --> 00:48:41.157
- I\'m under no illusion about

00:48:41.157 --> 00:48:42.150
the continued barriers to freedom

00:48:42.150 --> 00:48:44.163
that remain for ordinary Cubans.

00:48:45.010 --> 00:48:46.920
The United States believes that no Cuban

00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:50.620
should face harassment
or arrest or beatings

00:48:50.620 --> 00:48:53.860
simply because they\'re
exercising a universal right

00:48:53.860 --> 00:48:55.210
to have their voices heard.

00:48:56.144 --> 00:48:59.136
- Society is changing, so
expectations should change

00:48:59.136 --> 00:49:02.190
about what the role of
this leader should be,

00:49:02.190 --> 00:49:03.030
the president.

00:49:03.030 --> 00:49:06.930
The Cuban government is trying
to acquire economic power

00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:10.110
to still be in political power

00:49:10.110 --> 00:49:11.310
but through the economic power,

00:49:11.310 --> 00:49:14.480
and I think what is very
intense in Cuba right now is

00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:19.480
the fight, this hunger, this very intense,

00:49:19.650 --> 00:49:24.650
people like, you know, trying
to get into one social scale,

00:49:24.980 --> 00:49:29.021
and what money access you will have now,

00:49:29.021 --> 00:49:31.290
because I think this is when things

00:49:31.290 --> 00:49:32.650
have been established.

00:49:32.650 --> 00:49:35.363
- Do you see any country in the world

00:49:35.363 --> 00:49:38.363
that is closer to the ideal that --

00:49:38.363 --> 00:49:39.850
- Iceland.

00:49:39.850 --> 00:49:41.760
- [Dr. Frank] Iceland, uh huh.

00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.710
- Small, because this is another thing,

00:49:43.710 --> 00:49:46.300
Cuban government has
always compared itself,

00:49:46.300 --> 00:49:48.230
or Costa Rica, you know,

00:49:48.230 --> 00:49:52.700
like Cuban government always
compares itself with China,

00:49:52.700 --> 00:49:53.863
United States.

00:49:55.323 --> 00:49:57.810
- [Dr. Frank] Russia.
- Russia, like, India.

00:49:57.810 --> 00:50:00.630
We are a small island,
which is fine, it\'s okay.

00:50:00.630 --> 00:50:02.890
We don\'t have to be ashamed of that.

00:50:02.890 --> 00:50:05.184
And we are like a small state.

00:50:05.184 --> 00:50:06.300
Unlike here.

00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:09.440
And can we run the country
as we were running a state?

00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:10.890
And it\'s fine, you know.

00:50:10.890 --> 00:50:12.821
And I think something like Iceland where,

00:50:12.821 --> 00:50:16.170
this is something I would love one day,

00:50:16.170 --> 00:50:20.270
but that the Constitution
was made by people,

00:50:20.270 --> 00:50:21.960
and it was made of the internet,

00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:23.570
and people add stuff.

00:50:23.570 --> 00:50:25.230
I mean, that\'s kind of my dream.

00:50:25.230 --> 00:50:26.543
For me, art is a solution.

00:50:28.165 --> 00:50:29.163
- [Dr. Frank] It\'s a solution.

00:50:29.163 --> 00:50:30.165
- As a bias, maybe.

00:50:30.165 --> 00:50:32.021
But I think art is where
things are going to.

00:50:32.021 --> 00:50:36.160
- [Woman] You were one of
the founders of Occupy.

00:50:36.160 --> 00:50:37.323
- [Tania] I was.

00:50:37.323 --> 00:50:40.170
There\'s this group of
people called Strike Debt.

00:50:40.170 --> 00:50:41.983
It\'s an artists group that I love.

00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:44.810
And what they did is they realized that

00:50:44.810 --> 00:50:49.773
the banks were buying the garbage loans,

00:50:51.081 --> 00:50:55.621
for like a cents by the
dollar, or something,

00:50:55.621 --> 00:50:56.950
so they got a partnership with somebody

00:50:56.950 --> 00:50:58.210
who can buy it.

00:50:58.210 --> 00:51:01.980
They raised money, like
everybody could send

00:51:01.980 --> 00:51:03.490
to the website money,

00:51:03.490 --> 00:51:06.420
and they bought all, I
think 30 million dollars

00:51:06.420 --> 00:51:08.880
worth of debt now, and once they have it,

00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:10.540
they liberate it.

00:51:10.540 --> 00:51:12.139
Isn\'t that beautiful?

00:51:12.139 --> 00:51:13.163
(Dr. Frank laughing)

00:51:13.163 --> 00:51:14.325
There\'s nothing beautiful better than

00:51:14.325 --> 00:51:15.741
going to the MOMA to see, like, you know.

00:51:15.741 --> 00:51:19.125
That\'s what I mean by aesthetics.

00:51:19.125 --> 00:51:21.100
I love that.

00:51:21.100 --> 00:51:23.623
\'Cause it really, it\'s so beautiful.

00:51:25.141 --> 00:51:27.230
- And your father plays
such a significant role

00:51:27.230 --> 00:51:30.630
because you admire him, you love him.

00:51:30.630 --> 00:51:33.950
Did he ever appreciate your --

00:51:33.950 --> 00:51:35.430
- Well, I have to be honest.

00:51:35.430 --> 00:51:38.590
I suffer for many many years this.

00:51:38.590 --> 00:51:39.710
I repress it very much.

00:51:39.710 --> 00:51:41.980
I made all my work change.

00:51:41.980 --> 00:51:46.224
At the end in 2006, he was in Cuba,

00:51:46.224 --> 00:51:48.010
he was in disgrace, you know.

00:51:48.010 --> 00:51:48.940
- He was?

00:51:48.940 --> 00:51:51.260
- Well, he\'s not anymore important person.

00:51:51.260 --> 00:51:53.490
Raul came to power, he was a Fidel man.

00:51:53.490 --> 00:51:58.490
So he was drinking a little bit.

00:52:00.080 --> 00:52:01.240
Like he got really --

00:52:01.240 --> 00:52:03.260
It happened to a lot of those people.

00:52:03.260 --> 00:52:04.470
They got depressed.

00:52:04.470 --> 00:52:07.840
And then he told me, and
that\'s what saved me my sanity,

00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:10.920
I think, he told me,
I\'m very proud of you.

00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:12.497
- He did?

00:52:12.497 --> 00:52:14.890
- But it look me like from 94 for 2006.

00:52:14.890 --> 00:52:16.240
Whatever, but I have it.

00:52:16.240 --> 00:52:17.073
It\'s good.

00:52:17.073 --> 00:52:20.750
So he said I\'m proud of you
because what you did then,

00:52:20.750 --> 00:52:22.010
and I say, what do you mean?

00:52:22.010 --> 00:52:24.770
I say like, when you have
an idea you believe on,

00:52:24.770 --> 00:52:28.812
you go against anything
and anybody, even me.

00:52:28.812 --> 00:52:31.699
- See, that\'s bringing tears to my eyes.

00:52:31.699 --> 00:52:34.070
- [Tania] Well, it was very emotional.

00:52:34.070 --> 00:52:38.001
- Ultimately, you learned
that he really did value

00:52:38.001 --> 00:52:43.001
your tenacity, your courage,

00:52:44.530 --> 00:52:47.993
the fact that you believed
in something important.

00:52:50.070 --> 00:52:51.630
And in a period of his life,

00:52:51.630 --> 00:52:53.630
it sounds as though he believed too

00:52:53.630 --> 00:52:58.470
he would\'ve seen Fidel as
an instrument of change,

00:52:58.470 --> 00:53:03.340
and of caring about the
people who had very little,

00:53:03.340 --> 00:53:08.340
compared to those who dominate
with money and industry.

00:53:09.370 --> 00:53:12.363
But then, it took a while for you dad.

00:53:12.363 --> 00:53:14.240
- Do you know what it took, I think,

00:53:14.240 --> 00:53:16.460
that he was not in power anymore?

00:53:16.460 --> 00:53:17.720
So he was living noble.

00:53:17.720 --> 00:53:20.760
Like he didn\'t have dollars to buy

00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:23.110
the medicines he needed for his heart,

00:53:23.110 --> 00:53:24.690
and that\'s difficult, you know,

00:53:24.690 --> 00:53:26.684
after living all your life.

00:53:26.684 --> 00:53:28.481
And then he, I remember that the day,

00:53:28.481 --> 00:53:30.320
that day he said, I didn\'t give my life

00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:31.990
to have prostitutes in the street

00:53:31.990 --> 00:53:33.650
going with foreigners.

00:53:33.650 --> 00:53:36.870
That\'s what we\'re fighting
for, to not have this.

00:53:36.870 --> 00:53:38.684
So he starts seeing like how,

00:53:38.684 --> 00:53:40.750
and that was really satisfying.

00:53:40.750 --> 00:53:42.530
That day was one of
the happiest of my life

00:53:42.530 --> 00:53:44.900
because I was telling him a lot of stuff,

00:53:44.900 --> 00:53:48.100
and that day he recognized on his own.

00:53:48.100 --> 00:53:51.220
There are kids without
shoes in the street,

00:53:51.220 --> 00:53:54.490
there are a lot of poverty,
salaries are not --

00:53:54.490 --> 00:53:59.080
Like all this injustice that
they fought against, and back.

00:53:59.080 --> 00:54:01.543
- So would you say in his whole life,

00:54:01.543 --> 00:54:03.010
your father was an honorable man,

00:54:03.010 --> 00:54:05.523
but for a period of
time, he was misguided?

00:54:06.390 --> 00:54:10.990
- I think that he, that\'s an assumption,

00:54:10.990 --> 00:54:13.068
I don\'t know if it\'s true.

00:54:13.068 --> 00:54:16.023
But I feel like he was like
every young person, ambitious,

00:54:16.950 --> 00:54:19.303
and he wanted to gain to power.

00:54:20.204 --> 00:54:22.284
- [Dr. Frank] Well, ambitious,
or idealistic, or both?

00:54:22.284 --> 00:54:23.523
- A professional.

00:54:23.523 --> 00:54:24.970
I think it was a little both
professional and ambitious,

00:54:24.970 --> 00:54:27.690
but also, I mean he started the revolution

00:54:27.690 --> 00:54:28.900
when he was like 12 years old.

00:54:28.900 --> 00:54:30.400
Like he was a kid.

00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:33.670
They were all together in the
neighborhood, doing stuff.

00:54:33.670 --> 00:54:36.028
- Was he part of Fidel\'s original group?

00:54:36.028 --> 00:54:36.861
- Yeah yeah, he was.

00:54:36.861 --> 00:54:41.140
He had to leave to Mexico
because he was tortured.

00:54:41.140 --> 00:54:42.040
He was actually tortured.

00:54:42.040 --> 00:54:43.520
He had a finger like this.

00:54:43.520 --> 00:54:45.447
He was actually tortured.

00:54:45.447 --> 00:54:46.444
- [Dr. Frank] By Bautista?

00:54:46.444 --> 00:54:48.920
- By Bautista\'s people,
and he was persecuted,

00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:52.529
so some friend of the family
brought him to Mexico.

00:54:52.529 --> 00:54:53.450
- [Dr. Frank] So he\'s in my generation?

00:54:53.450 --> 00:54:55.320
He was born around 1940?

00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:56.919
- Yeah, 35.

00:54:56.919 --> 00:54:57.940
- [Dr. Frank] 35, okay.

00:54:57.940 --> 00:54:59.950
- What do you recommend for people

00:54:59.950 --> 00:55:02.820
who don\'t know they have been through

00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:04.647
a traumatic experience?

00:55:04.647 --> 00:55:06.668
Do you know some techniques,

00:55:06.668 --> 00:55:11.380
or exercises people can do
to get out of that kind of

00:55:11.380 --> 00:55:15.880
passive acceptance, and then
going to ask for their rights.

00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:18.764
- Part of dealing with
the impact of trauma

00:55:18.764 --> 00:55:21.380
is to do physical exercise.

00:55:21.380 --> 00:55:24.673
Here\'s what depression is, biologically.

00:55:25.644 --> 00:55:30.644
It is a loss of emotional energy.

00:55:33.240 --> 00:55:35.340
And when you lose it,

00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:38.060
you can still walk up a flight of stairs,

00:55:38.060 --> 00:55:41.610
but you feel exhausted trying to do

00:55:41.610 --> 00:55:44.240
what you know you\'ve
been put on Earth to do.

00:55:44.240 --> 00:55:46.630
The seamstress doesn\'t sew.

00:55:46.630 --> 00:55:49.280
So there\'s a selective lethargy

00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:51.940
for what is important to you.

00:55:51.940 --> 00:55:54.660
And in addition, you feel helpless,

00:55:54.660 --> 00:55:56.463
hopeless, and worthless.

00:55:57.860 --> 00:56:00.780
Humor is important.

00:56:00.780 --> 00:56:02.730
Keep your humor alive,

00:56:02.730 --> 00:56:04.840
and if you find you\'ve
gone for several days

00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:06.640
and you haven\'t read
anything that\'s funny,

00:56:06.640 --> 00:56:08.420
or seen something that\'s funny.

00:56:08.420 --> 00:56:09.960
- No, this I took care of.

00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:11.505
- [Dr. Frank] You do, okay.

00:56:11.505 --> 00:56:12.410
- This part is the one I took care of.

00:56:12.410 --> 00:56:14.520
The rest I haven\'t, but that\'s the one.

00:56:14.520 --> 00:56:16.270
You\'re going to like this.

00:56:16.270 --> 00:56:18.945
A friend of mine gave me a
Hannah Arendt in Spanish.

00:56:18.945 --> 00:56:21.783
The Origins of Totalitarianism book.

00:56:21.783 --> 00:56:25.690
And then, I say, I\'m
just going to read it.

00:56:25.690 --> 00:56:29.110
And I say, I\'m going to
be in my house 24 hours,

00:56:29.110 --> 00:56:32.740
for the whole time of the
exhibition in the house,

00:56:32.740 --> 00:56:35.724
reading non-stop this book.

00:56:35.724 --> 00:56:40.430
The government response is the next day.

00:56:40.430 --> 00:56:42.942
They came with --
(jack hammers rattling)

00:56:42.942 --> 00:56:43.948
- [Dr. Frank] Jack hammers?

00:56:43.948 --> 00:56:46.590
- Jack hammers, to fix the street.

00:56:46.590 --> 00:56:50.020
They were so non-subtle with it

00:56:50.020 --> 00:56:53.468
that they only cut from my house

00:56:53.468 --> 00:56:58.468
to a little bit like maybe
one door more than my house,

00:56:59.070 --> 00:57:01.665
and then the rest of
the street was normal.

00:57:01.665 --> 00:57:03.380
And I was like.

00:57:03.380 --> 00:57:05.200
And they spent a week doing that.

00:57:05.200 --> 00:57:06.700
Many days.

00:57:06.700 --> 00:57:07.700
They couldn\'t do it in one day.

00:57:07.700 --> 00:57:09.790
They did it like all the time.

00:57:09.790 --> 00:57:11.745
They were so many people.

00:57:11.745 --> 00:57:13.680
And then every time I told
the secret police guys like,

00:57:13.680 --> 00:57:15.943
don\'t do this, don\'t do that.

00:57:15.943 --> 00:57:16.776
You\'re going to look bad.

00:57:16.776 --> 00:57:18.247
No, don\'t do it.

00:57:18.247 --> 00:57:19.244
I was advice to the --

00:57:19.244 --> 00:57:20.567
(speaking in foreign language)

00:57:20.567 --> 00:57:21.670
I was like, this is not a good idea.

00:57:21.670 --> 00:57:22.503
We\'re doing it.

00:57:22.503 --> 00:57:24.170
Because it was more like, you know.

00:57:25.283 --> 00:57:26.330
I was not rational.

00:57:26.330 --> 00:57:28.900
And then I say, okay,
when they have lunch,

00:57:28.900 --> 00:57:31.190
I\'m going to read the part of the book,

00:57:31.190 --> 00:57:35.100
where the people
collaborate with the police.

00:57:35.100 --> 00:57:36.050
And it was beautiful.

00:57:36.050 --> 00:57:38.070
For me, it was the most beautiful moment.

00:57:38.070 --> 00:57:42.230
Because they were eating,
and listening to all that.

00:57:42.230 --> 00:57:44.670
Because I had the speaker
that goes to the street.

00:57:44.670 --> 00:57:46.940
It was beautiful because
in the street you can hear,

00:57:46.940 --> 00:57:48.410
before you arrive, you can hear.

00:57:48.410 --> 00:57:50.305
Because sounds spread, you know?

00:57:50.305 --> 00:57:52.860
So they had, and some of them look at me,

00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:54.470
and some of them were like,

00:57:54.470 --> 00:57:57.390
you could see they were
entering their, you know --

00:57:57.390 --> 00:58:00.023
So that was, I loved that.

00:58:00.023 --> 00:58:02.110
(laughing)

00:58:02.110 --> 00:58:07.084
But yeah, yeah, it was,
they were ridiculous.

00:58:07.084 --> 00:58:09.240
(jack hammers rattling)

00:58:09.240 --> 00:58:11.730
I think the government did a piece for me.

00:58:11.730 --> 00:58:12.730
I had nothing to do.

00:58:12.730 --> 00:58:14.123
I was literally like this.

00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.470
I told them, I want to do a performance,

00:58:17.470 --> 00:58:19.790
and you want to do a theater play.

00:58:19.790 --> 00:58:24.310
Why, because you want to
have control of the setup of

00:58:24.310 --> 00:58:25.710
the situation, which in performance,

00:58:25.710 --> 00:58:28.225
you bring something and see what happens.

00:58:28.225 --> 00:58:30.830
You want to have the same old characters

00:58:30.830 --> 00:58:31.830
that you have all the time,

00:58:31.830 --> 00:58:34.510
like the dissident, the good police,

00:58:34.510 --> 00:58:37.847
the bad dissident, the
American interventionist,

00:58:37.847 --> 00:58:41.300
like all of these characters
they set up in the 60s,

00:58:41.300 --> 00:58:43.380
and they keep using over and over.

00:58:43.380 --> 00:58:44.850
No matter what your story is,

00:58:44.850 --> 00:58:46.430
they impose this to you.

00:58:46.430 --> 00:58:47.687
Like that\'s your story.

00:58:47.687 --> 00:58:49.310
That\'s what they tell people.

00:58:49.310 --> 00:58:52.740
So, and also because I think
in traditional theater,

00:58:52.740 --> 00:58:56.364
there is a script,

00:58:56.364 --> 00:59:00.320
and even lines that people have to repeat.

00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:01.490
And they were doing that.

00:59:01.490 --> 00:59:02.985
There was a script.

00:59:02.985 --> 00:59:03.818
I knew, at some point,

00:59:03.818 --> 00:59:05.200
I almost knew what\'s the next step.

00:59:05.200 --> 00:59:07.930
I don\'t think they believe
what they\'re doing anymore.

00:59:07.930 --> 00:59:12.930
So I think it kind of putting
themselves inside a character

00:59:13.365 --> 00:59:15.350
instead of, because for me,

00:59:15.350 --> 00:59:17.800
this difference between
performance and theater,

00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:22.800
is in traditional theater,
you embed a character.

00:59:23.130 --> 00:59:25.070
You have to go through all the training,

00:59:25.070 --> 00:59:26.390
but it\'s not you.

00:59:26.390 --> 00:59:28.940
And for me, performance is a state of

00:59:28.940 --> 00:59:31.160
vulnerability of the self.

00:59:31.160 --> 00:59:32.905
So in this sense, you are you,

00:59:32.905 --> 00:59:35.680
in the most real way possible.

00:59:35.680 --> 00:59:37.700
- [Woman] Do you see this whole event

00:59:37.700 --> 00:59:39.003
as a performance?

00:59:43.564 --> 00:59:45.200
(wings flapping)

00:59:45.200 --> 00:59:46.985
- After everything ends,

00:59:46.985 --> 00:59:49.590
I have to take something
positive out of all of this.

00:59:49.590 --> 00:59:52.860
I\'m going to do an institute
called Hannah Arendt Institute

00:59:52.860 --> 00:59:54.353
for Art and Activism.

01:00:07.530 --> 01:00:10.770
They say, why do you put
the name Hannah Arendt?

01:00:10.770 --> 01:00:13.673
This is so offensive
because it\'s a foreigner.

01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:21.960
Half of the schools are
called Ho Chi Minh, Lenin,

01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:23.540
Marx, Engels.

01:00:25.770 --> 01:00:28.823
When you are not afraid of
losing anything anymore,

01:00:30.250 --> 01:00:31.713
they can\'t hurt you.

01:00:45.230 --> 01:00:47.600
- [Tilda Swinton] Art is not a luxury.

01:00:47.600 --> 01:00:50.190
Art is a basic social need to which

01:00:50.190 --> 01:00:51.463
everyone has a right.

01:00:52.780 --> 01:00:55.040
Art is a way of building thought,

01:00:55.040 --> 01:00:57.890
of being aware of one\'s self
and others at the same time.

01:00:59.540 --> 01:01:02.480
Art is an invitation to questioning.

01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:04.720
It is the social place of doubt,

01:01:04.720 --> 01:01:07.583
of wanting to understand
and change reality.

01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:12.390
Art is not only a
statement of the present,

01:01:12.390 --> 01:01:15.923
it is also a call for a
different future, a better one.

01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:20.450
Therefor, it is a right
not only to enjoy art,

01:01:20.450 --> 01:01:22.613
but also to be able to create it.

01:01:23.907 --> 01:01:26.600
Art is a common good that does not

01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:28.963
have to be entirely
understood immediately.

01:01:30.200 --> 01:01:32.783
Art is a space of vulnerability.

01:01:34.540 --> 01:01:37.560
Artists not only have
the right to dissent,

01:01:37.560 --> 01:01:38.993
but the duty to do so.

01:01:40.029 --> 01:01:43.000
Artists have the right
to dissent not only from

01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:47.100
affective moral, philosophical,
or cultural aspects,

01:01:47.100 --> 01:01:49.793
but also from economic and political ones.

01:01:51.550 --> 01:01:54.480
Artists have the right
to disagree with power,

01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:55.863
with the status quo.

01:01:57.110 --> 01:02:00.440
Artists have the right to
be respected and protected

01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:01.483
when they dissent.

01:02:03.180 --> 01:02:06.040
The governments of
nations where artists work

01:02:06.040 --> 01:02:08.627
have the duty to protect
their rights to dissent

01:02:08.627 --> 01:02:11.300
because that is their social function.

01:02:11.300 --> 01:02:14.193
To question and address what
is difficult to confront.

01:02:15.560 --> 01:02:18.030
Without the possibility to dissent,

01:02:18.030 --> 01:02:20.400
an artist becomes an administrator,

01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:22.733
and transforms into a jester.

01:02:24.340 --> 01:02:26.370
Artists should not be sent to jail

01:02:26.370 --> 01:02:28.900
because of proposing a different reality,

01:02:28.900 --> 01:02:30.760
for sharing their ideas,

01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:32.553
for wanting a conversation.

01:02:34.120 --> 01:02:36.420
Nothing justifies the use of violence

01:02:36.420 --> 01:02:39.523
against an idea or the
person suggesting it.

01:02:40.990 --> 01:02:43.140
No government is infallible.

01:02:43.140 --> 01:02:45.740
No human being, even if elected,

01:02:45.740 --> 01:02:49.460
has the right to talk
for all the citizens.

01:02:49.460 --> 01:02:51.950
No social solution is permanent.

01:02:51.950 --> 01:02:54.420
And it is the artists
who have the opportunity

01:02:54.420 --> 01:02:57.360
and the duty to suggest the imagery of

01:02:57.360 --> 01:02:59.400
other social alternatives.

01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:01.424
Of using their communication tools

01:03:01.424 --> 01:03:04.123
from a space of sensitive responsibility.

01:03:04.123 --> 01:03:08.790
Artists suggest a meta-reality,

01:03:08.790 --> 01:03:12.333
a potential future to be
experienced in the present.

01:03:13.910 --> 01:03:17.500
Governments must stop fearing ideas.

01:03:17.500 --> 01:03:20.250
Artists have the right
and the responsibility

01:03:20.250 --> 01:03:23.780
not only to think up a
different and better world,

01:03:23.780 --> 01:03:25.193
but to try to build it.

01:03:26.910 --> 01:03:29.560
Artists have the right to be art-ivists.

01:03:29.560 --> 01:03:32.270
Part artists, part activists.

01:03:32.270 --> 01:03:35.830
Because they are an active
part of civil society.

01:03:35.830 --> 01:03:39.580
Because art is a safe space
from which people can debate,

01:03:39.580 --> 01:03:42.433
interpret, build, and educate.

01:03:43.970 --> 01:03:47.463
Without dissent, there
is no chance of progress.

01:03:49.030 --> 01:03:51.290
We must be cautious about the increasing

01:03:52.131 --> 01:03:55.240
criminalization of socially
committed artistic creation

01:03:55.240 --> 01:03:57.760
under the rationale of national security,

01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:59.760
and the need to control information

01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:01.640
because of political reasons,

01:04:01.640 --> 01:04:03.953
with the purpose of censoring artists.

01:04:05.330 --> 01:04:07.010
We can not ask artists,

01:04:07.010 --> 01:04:09.560
whose work is to question society,

01:04:09.560 --> 01:04:12.870
to keep silent, and
resort to self-censorship,

01:04:12.870 --> 01:04:15.123
once they cross a territorial border.

01:04:16.810 --> 01:04:20.750
Artistic expression is a
space to challenge meanings,

01:04:20.750 --> 01:04:23.136
to define what is imaginable.

01:04:23.136 --> 01:04:26.630
This is what, as times goes by,

01:04:26.630 --> 01:04:28.850
is recognized as culture.

01:04:34.437 --> 01:04:38.354
(speaking in foreign language)

01:05:57.428 --> 01:06:00.011
(upbeat music)

01:08:02.053 --> 01:08:04.636
(upbeat music)