00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:20.110
Almighty God created the races,
whites, black, yellow,

00:00:20.110 --> 00:00:23.200
malay, and red.

00:00:23.200 --> 00:00:27.980
And he placed them on
separate continents.

00:00:27.980 --> 00:00:32.110
And but for the interference
with his arrangement, there

00:00:32.110 --> 00:00:35.630
would be no cause for
such marriages.

00:00:35.630 --> 00:00:41.100
The fact that he separated the
races shows that he did not

00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:44.394
intend for the races to mix.

00:01:22.166 --> 00:01:51.489
[MUSIC - "GOING HOME"]

00:01:51.489 --> 00:01:53.882
It was love at first sight.

00:01:53.882 --> 00:01:57.655
To marry someone and then have
to go through all that they

00:01:57.655 --> 00:02:00.052
went through, it was
nothing but love.

00:02:39.230 --> 00:02:41.470
My mom was tall and skinny.

00:02:41.470 --> 00:02:43.350
And they teased her an called
her string bean.

00:02:46.594 --> 00:02:47.078
Wait.

00:02:47.078 --> 00:02:48.328
Sit down.

00:02:50.950 --> 00:02:53.520
And then eventually he knocked
off the string.

00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.008
He called her Bean.

00:02:56.008 --> 00:02:57.996
Up.

00:02:57.996 --> 00:02:58.493
OK.

00:02:58.493 --> 00:03:01.475
Here you go.

00:03:01.475 --> 00:03:02.725
Excuse me.

00:03:13.403 --> 00:03:16.385
Ouch.

00:03:16.385 --> 00:03:17.876
My little daughter.

00:03:28.810 --> 00:03:35.768
[CHATTERING]

00:03:35.768 --> 00:03:37.018
Ouch.

00:03:48.290 --> 00:03:50.330
Every time they were pulling
wood they had--

00:03:50.330 --> 00:03:52.064
Where's your boots, baby?

00:03:52.064 --> 00:03:54.920
In the kitchen.

00:03:54.920 --> 00:03:56.930
You gonna pitch on home?

00:03:56.930 --> 00:03:58.180
Yeah.

00:04:17.895 --> 00:04:22.650
We were married on the
second day of June.

00:04:22.650 --> 00:04:30.705
And the police came after
us the 14th of July.

00:04:30.705 --> 00:04:33.896
It was about 2:00 AM.

00:04:33.896 --> 00:04:35.420
And I saw this light,
you know.

00:04:35.420 --> 00:04:38.620
And I woke up, and
it was the police

00:04:38.620 --> 00:04:40.270
standing beside the bed.

00:04:40.270 --> 00:04:43.214
And they told us to get up,
that we was under arrest.

00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:48.225
They came one night, and they
knocked a couple time.

00:04:48.225 --> 00:04:48.971
I hear them.

00:04:48.971 --> 00:04:52.035
And before I could get up, you
know, they just broke the door

00:04:52.035 --> 00:04:53.190
and came on in.

00:04:53.190 --> 00:04:56.680
When we got up, they were
standing beside the bed and

00:04:56.680 --> 00:04:59.186
flashlights.

00:04:59.186 --> 00:05:02.460
They asked Richard who
was that woman he

00:05:02.460 --> 00:05:03.800
was sleeping with.

00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:05.805
And I said, I'm his wife.

00:05:05.805 --> 00:05:08.740
And the sheriff said,
not here you're not.

00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:10.070
And he said, come on.

00:05:10.070 --> 00:05:12.860
Let's go.

00:05:12.860 --> 00:05:17.170
They knew he was coming,
Sheriff Brooks.

00:05:17.170 --> 00:05:19.340
They had gotten the word.

00:05:19.340 --> 00:05:24.038
And he had been there several
times in the daytime and

00:05:24.038 --> 00:05:26.876
they're never home.

00:05:26.876 --> 00:05:29.720
So he went there at 4:00
in the morning.

00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:30.970
They were there.

00:05:34.850 --> 00:05:37.925
A lady carried us to Bowling
Green and locked us up.

00:05:41.885 --> 00:05:44.290
Our jail was hell.

00:05:44.290 --> 00:05:47.296
It had 16 bunks in it.

00:05:47.296 --> 00:05:50.188
But it wasn't no motel.

00:05:50.188 --> 00:05:53.690
When she was arrested she was
put in the small cell, the

00:05:53.690 --> 00:05:54.920
woman's cell.

00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:57.160
They had a sink and a commode.

00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:58.876
And you give them a little
something to

00:05:58.876 --> 00:06:00.960
eat through the door.

00:06:00.960 --> 00:06:02.210
We could only take one woman.

00:06:07.620 --> 00:06:14.420
One afternoon this inmate had
been on the outside working.

00:06:14.420 --> 00:06:15.730
And the sheriff brought
him back.

00:06:15.730 --> 00:06:20.270
And he said, I should let you
go in with her tonight.

00:06:20.270 --> 00:06:21.530
Would have scared me to death.

00:06:30.110 --> 00:06:33.500
They way I feel about it is
there's just a few people that

00:06:33.500 --> 00:06:34.635
lives in this community.

00:06:34.635 --> 00:06:35.730
There's a few white.

00:06:35.730 --> 00:06:36.860
There's a few colored.

00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:40.330
And as we grew up and
as they grew up, we

00:06:40.330 --> 00:06:42.830
all helped one another.

00:06:42.830 --> 00:06:43.890
It was actually mixed
together, you

00:06:43.890 --> 00:06:44.800
know, to start with.

00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:46.300
So it just kept going
that way.

00:06:46.300 --> 00:06:48.750
It's been that way for
years down here.

00:06:48.750 --> 00:06:50.770
There's a lot of us down here,
but we the only ones been

00:06:50.770 --> 00:06:52.120
bothered by it.

00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:54.354
There's a lot of the
same down here.

00:06:54.354 --> 00:06:55.238
Is that right?

00:06:55.238 --> 00:06:55.680
Yeah.

00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.310
But see, some people that
didn't like us,

00:06:58.310 --> 00:06:59.710
they just talk, see?

00:06:59.710 --> 00:07:02.608
And started the dog rolling.

00:07:02.608 --> 00:07:06.240
Do you know any other couples
who are in the same situation?

00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:06.650
Yeah.

00:07:06.650 --> 00:07:07.235
I know some.

00:07:07.235 --> 00:07:08.330
But I wouldn't call
their names.

00:07:08.330 --> 00:07:10.013
No.

00:07:10.013 --> 00:07:11.777
I just wondered if you did.

00:07:11.777 --> 00:07:12.220
Yeah.

00:07:12.220 --> 00:07:13.470
I know a few.

00:07:18.830 --> 00:07:22.910
I wonder why they picked
on you, then.

00:07:22.910 --> 00:07:23.720
That I don't know.

00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:27.220
I never found out if
somebody talked.

00:07:32.110 --> 00:07:35.620
The Lovings were married in 1958
outside of Virginia here

00:07:35.620 --> 00:07:37.220
in the District of Columbia.

00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:40.570
But they were convicted under
Virginia law, which forbids

00:07:40.570 --> 00:07:43.740
any white person and colored
person from leaving the state

00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:46.400
for the purpose of marrying
each other and with the

00:07:46.400 --> 00:07:48.040
intention of returning.

00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:50.910
They were sentenced to a year
in jail, but the sentences

00:07:50.910 --> 00:07:54.730
were suspended on condition
they leave Virginia.

00:07:54.730 --> 00:07:57.460
The legal term is
miscegenation.

00:07:57.460 --> 00:08:00.830
And those who support such laws
claim they are necessary

00:08:00.830 --> 00:08:04.260
in order to preserve the
purity of the races.

00:08:04.260 --> 00:08:07.470
In all the field of race
relations probably nothing is

00:08:07.470 --> 00:08:11.920
more sensitive than the issue
of intermarriage.

00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.460
We went to Washington
to be married.

00:08:15.460 --> 00:08:21.172
And I guess that's why
we went there.

00:08:21.172 --> 00:08:24.260
People had been mixing
all the time, so I

00:08:24.260 --> 00:08:25.180
didn't know any different.

00:08:25.180 --> 00:08:27.050
I didn't know there was
a law against it.

00:08:32.822 --> 00:08:34.420
You know, the white and colored

00:08:34.420 --> 00:08:35.410
went to school different.

00:08:35.410 --> 00:08:41.290
And things like that,
you know.

00:08:41.290 --> 00:08:44.620
They could go in the
same restaurants.

00:08:44.620 --> 00:08:47.420
I knew that.

00:08:47.420 --> 00:08:52.214
But I didn't realize how bad it
was until we got married.

00:08:55.567 --> 00:08:59.820
We were under a $1,000 bond.

00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:06.960
And his sister got a bonding
company to get him out.

00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.650
And they told the bonding
company if they tried to get

00:09:09.650 --> 00:09:12.010
me out that they would
put him back in jail.

00:09:17.270 --> 00:09:20.800
I stayed there until Thursday.

00:09:20.800 --> 00:09:21.760
They let me come home.

00:09:21.760 --> 00:09:25.920
But I was under my father's
responsibility.

00:09:25.920 --> 00:09:29.830
I didn't have a bond, but he
had to make sure that I got

00:09:29.830 --> 00:09:31.080
back to court.

00:09:35.010 --> 00:09:37.206
He went to his parents' home.

00:09:37.206 --> 00:09:39.410
I went to my parents' home.

00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:44.510
They had a trial.

00:09:44.510 --> 00:09:47.850
They sentenced us to one year
in a state penitentiary.

00:09:47.850 --> 00:09:51.350
Then they suspended for 25 years
and said that we had to

00:09:51.350 --> 00:09:52.600
leave the state.

00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:57.530
But the way I understood it the
law said that we come back

00:09:57.530 --> 00:09:59.060
to visit, you know,
when we wanted to.

00:10:01.920 --> 00:10:04.390
So that Easter we came back,
and they got us again.

00:10:10.435 --> 00:10:13.060
We left and went to DC.

00:10:13.060 --> 00:10:14.310
Stayed there.

00:10:17.122 --> 00:10:20.390
But I didn't want to, you know,
leave away from around

00:10:20.390 --> 00:10:22.365
my family and friends.

00:10:22.365 --> 00:10:27.094
And that wasn't home,
in Washington.

00:10:27.094 --> 00:10:29.030
Well, I just wanted
to go back home.

00:10:45.554 --> 00:10:49.286
My dad and mom lived
about three or four

00:10:49.286 --> 00:10:51.110
miles from one another.

00:10:51.110 --> 00:10:52.860
But they just grew up
in the community.

00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:56.520
Her brothers would play music,
the guitar, the fiddle.

00:10:56.520 --> 00:10:58.444
And I guess that's
how they met.

00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:06.220
When we first met, I
didn't like him.

00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:06.740
I don't know.

00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:08.154
He was arrogant.

00:11:08.154 --> 00:11:12.840
But I got to know him, and he
was a very nice person.

00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:19.790
I guess we dated on and
off a couple of years

00:11:19.790 --> 00:11:21.346
before we were married.

00:11:24.552 --> 00:11:28.270
Now that they've married, do you
see them as being happy?

00:11:28.270 --> 00:11:31.970
They seem to be very happy every
time I see them together

00:11:31.970 --> 00:11:32.820
or anywhere.

00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:34.320
I've been in the home,
they're happy.

00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:37.266
And I've been in the car with
them, they were happy.

00:11:37.266 --> 00:11:39.690
They seem to be very happy.

00:11:39.690 --> 00:11:42.022
Well, has that changed the
way you look at it any?

00:11:42.022 --> 00:11:42.494
No.

00:11:42.494 --> 00:11:44.382
I don't--

00:11:44.382 --> 00:11:46.390
I just like them, that's all.

00:11:46.390 --> 00:11:47.340
I like her.

00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:48.140
I like him.

00:11:48.140 --> 00:11:50.342
His mother, her mother
and all.

00:11:50.342 --> 00:11:53.690
Well, suppose we backed
up to before they'd

00:11:53.690 --> 00:11:55.120
gotten married again.

00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.130
Would you give them
the same advice?

00:11:58.130 --> 00:11:58.780
What would you tell them?

00:11:58.780 --> 00:12:01.608
Well, I don't know whether
I would or not.

00:12:01.608 --> 00:12:05.650
I don't know whether I'd
tell them or not.

00:12:05.650 --> 00:12:08.300
Did you advise them not to
get married at first?

00:12:08.300 --> 00:12:08.575
No.

00:12:08.575 --> 00:12:11.120
I didn't advise him not
to get married.

00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:15.655
I just told him he ought to, you
know, not to go up there.

00:12:15.655 --> 00:12:19.110
But he went up there,
and he was married.

00:12:19.110 --> 00:12:22.241
And I didn't know anything about
when he got married.

00:12:22.241 --> 00:12:24.930
Well, living here in this
community where Richard and

00:12:24.930 --> 00:12:28.440
Mildred both grew up right
around this area, has your

00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:30.308
life been any different
since they did get--

00:12:30.308 --> 00:12:30.766
No.

00:12:30.766 --> 00:12:31.682
--married?

00:12:31.682 --> 00:12:32.600
Mm mm.

00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:37.150
What is it like being the mother
of a fellow who grows

00:12:37.150 --> 00:12:42.340
up and kind of, as we all do,
wants to go his own way?

00:12:42.340 --> 00:12:46.804
Well, I don't know.

00:12:46.804 --> 00:12:48.054
[MUSIC - "ROCKET 88"
BY JACKIE BRENSTON]

00:13:25.040 --> 00:13:27.030
They used to drag race.

00:13:27.030 --> 00:13:29.170
And pretty well that's
what they did.

00:13:29.170 --> 00:13:30.720
He worked all week.

00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.930
But come Saturday they would
go to the race track.

00:13:33.930 --> 00:13:36.530
They decided to get
a race car.

00:13:36.530 --> 00:13:39.840
And the three guys,
they worked on

00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.546
cars and got it together.

00:13:41.546 --> 00:13:43.365
And of course the women
just followed along.

00:13:56.850 --> 00:14:01.195
And we built that car and ran
it on several dragstrips.

00:14:01.195 --> 00:14:07.470
And with the car we had 99
trophies, 33 apiece.

00:14:07.470 --> 00:14:11.592
And we'd win the money
piratically every Sunday.

00:14:11.592 --> 00:14:15.600
And if we didn't win the money,
we tied the car up and

00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:16.930
had to work on the car
next week, get it

00:14:16.930 --> 00:14:17.890
ready for another race.

00:14:17.890 --> 00:14:19.750
But it was a great
running car.

00:14:28.890 --> 00:14:32.880
Many light-skinned blacks
decided to hang with Richard

00:14:32.880 --> 00:14:36.500
because his whiteness
validated theirs.

00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:41.300
His whiteness aside, those who
knew him described him as a

00:14:41.300 --> 00:14:45.870
very warm men, very affable,
very friendly, equally

00:14:45.870 --> 00:14:47.760
comfortable in any setting.

00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:50.380
Whether he was with a group of
white man, whether he was with

00:14:50.380 --> 00:14:54.180
a group of black man, he could
blend and mix with any people.

00:15:00.072 --> 00:15:04.760
In Center Point, we used
to gather at one place.

00:15:04.760 --> 00:15:05.760
It was just a curve.

00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:08.130
And people just parked there and
had beers and everything.

00:15:08.130 --> 00:15:10.510
So Richard was always there.

00:15:10.510 --> 00:15:12.417
Well, he was part of
the neighborhood.

00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:27.800
I mean, we just grew up all
as a family together.

00:15:27.800 --> 00:15:31.660
We never knew nothing about all
of this racial stuff that

00:15:31.660 --> 00:15:34.440
they talk about.

00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:42.250
And if the government had left
them people alone, it would

00:15:42.250 --> 00:15:44.640
never been no problem there.

00:15:44.640 --> 00:15:46.270
There was no difference
in them.

00:15:46.270 --> 00:15:50.234
They were all working, trying
to make a living.

00:15:50.234 --> 00:15:52.840
And just because they didn't go
to the same church didn't

00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:54.330
mean that they weren't
good people.

00:15:58.506 --> 00:16:02.870
The families then were so close
if you had a crop you

00:16:02.870 --> 00:16:04.530
had to get it in, well,
you call the

00:16:04.530 --> 00:16:06.590
neighbors to come over.

00:16:06.590 --> 00:16:09.310
And everybody worked
with everybody.

00:16:09.310 --> 00:16:12.920
But that was just the way life
was in Caroline county.

00:16:16.140 --> 00:16:19.910
Remember hearing the children
kind of snickering back and

00:16:19.910 --> 00:16:26.410
forth about that family, mixing
with the black a lot.

00:16:26.410 --> 00:16:31.130
And I used to think it was sad
because my mom had always

00:16:31.130 --> 00:16:35.890
taught us from babies, little
children if you didn't have

00:16:35.890 --> 00:16:39.640
anything good to say about
someone not to

00:16:39.640 --> 00:16:41.590
say anything at all.

00:16:41.590 --> 00:16:43.340
And that used to really
bother me.

00:16:43.340 --> 00:16:48.330
So I would come home and I'd
ask my mom questions.

00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:52.420
They found out that my mother
was a Loving, and they used to

00:16:52.420 --> 00:16:54.090
worry me about it.

00:16:54.090 --> 00:16:56.149
And I would ask mom
about that.

00:16:56.149 --> 00:16:59.470
And she would say, well, we were
always told we weren't

00:16:59.470 --> 00:17:00.930
any kin to him.

00:17:00.930 --> 00:17:04.740
Richard lived down in the
community where most of the

00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:06.970
Indians lived.

00:17:06.970 --> 00:17:10.480
I don't know if Mildred had
any Indian in her or not,

00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.740
possibly could have.

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:16.780
And if they got romantically
involved or whatever, they

00:17:16.780 --> 00:17:18.030
kept it to themselves.

00:17:20.800 --> 00:17:23.145
Because everybody knew that
that was a no-no.

00:17:23.145 --> 00:17:25.528
That was against the law.

00:17:25.528 --> 00:17:28.702
So I'm not saying it
didn't happen.

00:17:28.702 --> 00:17:30.410
I'm saying they kept
it under cover.

00:17:34.155 --> 00:17:35.470
It was just every weekend.

00:17:35.470 --> 00:17:36.850
And someone would gather.

00:17:36.850 --> 00:17:38.635
And someone would bring in
a musical instrument.

00:17:38.635 --> 00:17:40.530
And next thing you know you
had two or three more.

00:17:40.530 --> 00:17:44.800
And people were just dancing
and having a good time.

00:17:44.800 --> 00:17:48.260
The sheriff, he stopped by one
Saturday evening, and he was

00:17:48.260 --> 00:17:49.630
looking at driver's licenses.

00:17:49.630 --> 00:17:55.520
So some people went for
white and some Indian.

00:17:55.520 --> 00:17:58.400
But some Indians went
for white too on

00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.290
their driver's licenses.

00:17:59.290 --> 00:18:03.120
So he tore everybody's
licenses up.

00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:06.460
And then he was parked to see
who was going to drive their

00:18:06.460 --> 00:18:08.610
cars without licenses.

00:18:08.610 --> 00:18:09.900
And he had the power to do it.

00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:12.990
He was the sheriff, you see.

00:18:12.990 --> 00:18:18.190
Garnett was a very
stern, stern man.

00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:22.430
And he did things his way.

00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:24.680
He didn't get along well
with the black people.

00:18:27.340 --> 00:18:31.715
He, in my opinion, was a
little bit prejudiced.

00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:37.350
And the blacks knew
he was that way.

00:18:40.730 --> 00:18:43.670
I don't think an order came down
when he found out where

00:18:43.670 --> 00:18:44.540
they were living.

00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:47.220
He went down there at 4:00 in
the morning and knocked the

00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:50.930
door down and went in and got
them and put them in jail.

00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:55.030
They stayed in jail
until their trial.

00:18:55.030 --> 00:18:58.990
And Judge Bazile, that's
when he evicted

00:18:58.990 --> 00:19:00.240
them out of the county.

00:19:04.451 --> 00:19:08.690
You know, I lived beside Sheriff
Brooks all my life.

00:19:11.590 --> 00:19:17.165
And let's just say that he had
ways of doing things that I

00:19:17.165 --> 00:19:19.620
didn't approve of.

00:19:19.620 --> 00:19:25.640
Mr. Loving, the court of
Virginia found you guilty of

00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:27.020
violating their laws.

00:19:27.020 --> 00:19:29.690
And what did they tell
you had to do?

00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:33.980
Were you supposed to
divorce or what?

00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:37.770
They said I had to
leave the state.

00:19:41.260 --> 00:19:43.990
And what happened after that?

00:19:43.990 --> 00:19:46.560
Well, I left.

00:19:46.560 --> 00:19:47.360
And took your wife with you.

00:19:47.360 --> 00:19:49.520
That's right.

00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:51.060
And that's the way I feel
about it again.

00:19:51.060 --> 00:19:53.850
If it's necessary, I'll leave
again and take her.

00:19:53.850 --> 00:19:55.140
I'm not going to divorce her.

00:20:31.530 --> 00:20:34.320
DC was very miserable.

00:20:34.320 --> 00:20:37.290
She felt totally divorced
from the world.

00:20:44.770 --> 00:20:48.240
Aside from the fact that she
had been banished there and

00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.520
was living there because some
judge had said that you can't

00:20:51.520 --> 00:20:56.800
live with your husband in
Virginia, she never really

00:20:56.800 --> 00:20:58.450
adapted to city life.

00:21:03.320 --> 00:21:07.810
Growing up in the country in a
rural area where she had room

00:21:07.810 --> 00:21:11.230
and her children had room to
play, being in the city just

00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:12.990
was not when she was
accustomed to.

00:21:20.540 --> 00:21:23.770
We came home one Christmas
and I was born.

00:21:23.770 --> 00:21:25.200
We were here in Virginia.

00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.560
They could come back
separate, but they

00:21:27.560 --> 00:21:30.120
couldn't come back together.

00:21:30.120 --> 00:21:34.970
But knowing them they probably
came back together.

00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:36.770
My daddy was very firm.

00:21:36.770 --> 00:21:41.250
He didn't say much, but when he
put his mind to something

00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:42.390
he's going to do it.

00:21:42.390 --> 00:21:46.400
And when they wanted to come
back to Virginia junior for

00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.795
any reason, they gonna
come back together.

00:21:48.795 --> 00:21:50.070
You know, they'd just
take that chance.

00:22:00.230 --> 00:22:03.730
Once they get back they might
have been shaky about being

00:22:03.730 --> 00:22:04.980
rearrested.

00:22:07.350 --> 00:22:08.860
Friends would let them
know, you know,

00:22:08.860 --> 00:22:10.210
if they hear anything.

00:22:10.210 --> 00:22:14.256
Little conversations, and they
were kind of like a whisper.

00:22:14.256 --> 00:22:16.370
Know we don't supposed
to be here.

00:22:16.370 --> 00:22:17.620
We're hiding.

00:22:24.075 --> 00:22:28.300
My great-uncle's house, we
called it the big house.

00:22:28.300 --> 00:22:30.360
But it was actually
a boarding house.

00:22:30.360 --> 00:22:33.270
That certainly made it easier to
slip in and out unnoticed.

00:22:36.550 --> 00:22:38.700
I would always nobody knew
when Mildred was in town

00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:41.250
because the children, usually
the oldest boy, Sidney, would

00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:44.110
come over, and we would play.

00:22:44.110 --> 00:22:48.280
And I often played with Sidney
just the two of us.

00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:51.080
And sometimes they other younger
siblings would play

00:22:51.080 --> 00:22:52.440
with us as well.

00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.740
And then I knew that Mildred
was there in the house

00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:57.790
visiting her sister, Garnet.

00:22:57.790 --> 00:23:01.690
And then later on in the
evenings, we would see Richard

00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:03.910
coming in, usually from
the other direction.

00:23:26.710 --> 00:23:30.720
You never saw him outside.

00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.510
He was always inside
the house.

00:23:48.410 --> 00:23:51.990
The children didn't have
anywhere to play.

00:23:51.990 --> 00:23:53.300
They would--

00:23:53.300 --> 00:23:54.900
Like being caged.

00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:56.240
And I couldn't stand it.

00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:57.490
I couldn't take it.

00:24:05.370 --> 00:24:08.950
My oldest son came back and
told me that Donald

00:24:08.950 --> 00:24:11.130
had be hit by a car.

00:24:11.130 --> 00:24:13.050
I didn't know what to do.

00:24:13.050 --> 00:24:15.350
I knew I had to go to him,
but I didn't knew if

00:24:15.350 --> 00:24:17.335
he were dead or--

00:24:17.335 --> 00:24:20.370
He was sitting up in
the street crying.

00:24:20.370 --> 00:24:24.620
And I think that was the straw
that broke the camel's back.

00:24:24.620 --> 00:24:26.010
I had to get out of there.

00:24:31.540 --> 00:24:33.260
I was so unhappy.

00:24:33.260 --> 00:24:36.880
I was complaining to my
cousin constantly.

00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:39.516
So one Saturday I guess
she got tired of it.

00:24:39.516 --> 00:24:42.910
And she told me, said, write
to Bobby Kennedy.

00:24:42.910 --> 00:24:43.560
He'll help you.

00:24:43.560 --> 00:24:44.950
That's what he's up there for.

00:24:48.387 --> 00:24:51.300
Just 100 years after Lincoln
signed the Emancipation

00:24:51.300 --> 00:24:54.820
Proclamation that freed the
slaves, 200,000 people

00:24:54.820 --> 00:24:56.610
converge on the nation's
capital to

00:24:56.610 --> 00:24:58.120
rally for civil rights.

00:24:58.120 --> 00:24:59.330
They come by train.

00:24:59.330 --> 00:25:01.680
They come by bus and by air.

00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.030
They come from the north, the
south, the east and west.

00:25:04.030 --> 00:25:07.460
They come united in one cause,
to urge Congress to pass a

00:25:07.460 --> 00:25:09.600
civil rights bill to
end forever the

00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:11.890
blight of racial inequity.

00:25:11.890 --> 00:25:17.595
This great throng with a cause
gathers on the Mall--

00:25:17.595 --> 00:25:20.310
I wasn't involved with the
civil rights movement.

00:25:20.310 --> 00:25:23.850
The only thing I know is what
everybody saw on the news.

00:25:23.850 --> 00:25:28.400
I knew Dr. King was out there,
but I never met him.

00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:30.620
I would have loved
to, but I didn't.

00:25:37.120 --> 00:25:41.720
I wasn't in anything concerning
civil rights.

00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.620
We were trying to get
back to Virginia.

00:25:44.620 --> 00:25:49.190
That was our goal,
to get back home.

00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:50.190
No.

00:25:50.190 --> 00:25:54.142
Let go of your hand.

00:25:54.142 --> 00:25:55.392
Look up.

00:25:58.588 --> 00:26:00.070
No I don't need my boots.

00:26:08.468 --> 00:26:12.914
[CHATTERING]

00:26:12.914 --> 00:26:13.902
One of them is 12.

00:26:13.902 --> 00:26:17.360
One of them is 6.

00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:19.870
How did you find
out what to do?

00:26:19.870 --> 00:26:21.380
She wrote to--

00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:22.907
Who'd you write to?

00:26:22.907 --> 00:26:25.530
Robert Kennedy.

00:26:25.530 --> 00:26:26.845
To Robert Kennedy?

00:26:26.845 --> 00:26:28.330
And did he answer?

00:26:28.330 --> 00:26:29.320
Yeah.

00:26:29.320 --> 00:26:33.775
And he said there wasn't
anything he could do but to

00:26:33.775 --> 00:26:38.230
write to the American Civil
Liberties Union.

00:26:38.230 --> 00:26:42.685
And I wrote to them and I told
them what happened and that

00:26:42.685 --> 00:26:46.150
Mr. Kennedy asked me
to write to them.

00:26:46.150 --> 00:26:50.605
And I guess it was about a week
and Mr. Cohen called.

00:26:50.605 --> 00:26:54.090
And he told me that he was
going to take the case.

00:26:54.090 --> 00:26:59.310
Well, when Mr. and Mrs. Loving
were having their problems,

00:26:59.310 --> 00:27:01.610
they wrote to the Attorney
General of the United States,

00:27:01.610 --> 00:27:05.190
who was then Robert Kennedy, and
asked if the civil rights

00:27:05.190 --> 00:27:07.720
bills that were being discussed
in Congress at that

00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.080
time-- let's see, I
guess was 1963--

00:27:11.080 --> 00:27:14.520
would give them any relief
from their problem.

00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:17.100
And he wrote back and told them
that it would not but

00:27:17.100 --> 00:27:19.110
suggested that they get in touch
with the American Civil

00:27:19.110 --> 00:27:20.090
Liberties Union.

00:27:20.090 --> 00:27:21.580
Here's the date, so
we can be sure.

00:27:21.580 --> 00:27:23.660
That was June 20, 1963.

00:27:23.660 --> 00:27:26.410
And they were living in
Washington, DC at the time.

00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:29.590
"Dear sir, I am writing to you
concerning a problem we have.

00:27:29.590 --> 00:27:31.600
Five years ago my husband
and I were

00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:33.420
married here in the District.

00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:35.890
We then return to Virginia
to live.

00:27:35.890 --> 00:27:37.300
"My husband is white.

00:27:37.300 --> 00:27:39.720
I am part Negro and
part Indian.

00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:42.400
At the time we did not know
there was a law in Virginia

00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:44.020
against mixed marriages.

00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:47.090
Therefore, we were jailed and
tried in a little town of

00:27:47.090 --> 00:27:48.630
Bowling Green.

00:27:48.630 --> 00:27:53.190
We were to leave the state
to make our home.

00:27:53.190 --> 00:27:55.640
We have three children and
cannot afford an attorney.

00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.250
"We wrote to the Attorney
General.

00:27:57.250 --> 00:28:00.370
He suggested that we get in
touch with you for advice.

00:28:00.370 --> 00:28:01.760
Please help us if you can.

00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:03.350
Hope to hear from
you real soon.

00:28:03.350 --> 00:28:06.910
Yours truly, Mr. and Mrs.
Richard Loving." And it was

00:28:06.910 --> 00:28:10.930
that simple letter that got us
into this not so simple case.

00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:13.330
Now I feel that god
had a purpose in

00:28:13.330 --> 00:28:15.830
creating the races separate.

00:28:15.830 --> 00:28:19.295
I am so proud of Negros who
are proud of being Negros.

00:28:19.295 --> 00:28:21.150
They are what god made them.

00:28:21.150 --> 00:28:25.144
And I'm proud of being white
because I am what my white

00:28:25.144 --> 00:28:26.990
race has made me.

00:28:26.990 --> 00:28:30.840
I'm white today because my
parents practiced segregation.

00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:33.780
And I wouldn't be anything
but white.

00:28:33.780 --> 00:28:36.788
And I love Negros who wouldn't
be anything but Negros.

00:28:52.420 --> 00:28:59.460
Beginning in the late 1800s
after emancipation during the

00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:03.580
Reconstruction Era, one southern
state after another

00:29:03.580 --> 00:29:08.700
go to great lengths to specify
who is white and who is not.

00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:14.440
This begins the process of
racial classification.

00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:18.590
On into the 20th century
southern states began to

00:29:18.590 --> 00:29:22.820
tighten that rule so that they
made membership in the race

00:29:22.820 --> 00:29:24.560
more exclusive.

00:29:24.560 --> 00:29:28.480
And this brings us to the Racial
Integrity Act passed in

00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.390
the state of Virginia in 1924.

00:29:31.390 --> 00:29:35.702
The rule was that if there was
a discernible trace of

00:29:35.702 --> 00:29:40.770
non-white blood then the person
was legally classified

00:29:40.770 --> 00:29:42.210
as non-white.

00:29:42.210 --> 00:29:46.690
That in order to be white one
has to be 99.9% pure.

00:29:46.690 --> 00:29:51.290
What Virginia referred to as a
Racial Integrity Act was more

00:29:51.290 --> 00:29:53.310
accurately a white
supremacy act.

00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:00.080
Being white meant a lot
more than skin color.

00:30:00.080 --> 00:30:03.100
Being white meant being the
inheritor of the Greeks and

00:30:03.100 --> 00:30:06.000
the Romans and of Thomas
Jefferson and James Madison

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:07.770
and George Washington.

00:30:07.770 --> 00:30:11.760
Being white meant being the
people who, by God's will,

00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:15.420
seemed to be in charge, not only
of Virginia, not only of

00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:16.725
America, but of the world.

00:30:20.070 --> 00:30:22.070
It's hardly surprising that
people would want to protect

00:30:22.070 --> 00:30:25.550
that and that people would turn
it into a fetish and that

00:30:25.550 --> 00:30:30.620
people would assume that that
must be guarded with law and

00:30:30.620 --> 00:30:31.870
violence, if necessary.

00:30:34.918 --> 00:30:38.653
All a man would have to
do is go to Puerto

00:30:38.653 --> 00:30:40.894
Rico or Cuba and see--

00:30:40.894 --> 00:30:42.388
Go to South America.

00:30:42.388 --> 00:30:45.376
You'll see what mixing
of the races can do.

00:30:45.376 --> 00:30:49.609
All you have to do is go down
there where there is no color

00:30:49.609 --> 00:30:53.488
line, where everybody are
mongrels and half-breeds.

00:30:53.488 --> 00:30:58.757
Long as God lets me live my two
children will never sit

00:30:58.757 --> 00:31:03.830
beside a bu-- excuse me, a
nigger in a public school.

00:31:03.830 --> 00:31:06.410
It'll never happen.

00:31:06.410 --> 00:31:13.520
And our people feel and are
convinced from evidence

00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:17.830
existing in abundance,
principally from the District

00:31:17.830 --> 00:31:22.380
of Columbia, that the mixing
of the races will destroy

00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:23.550
public education.

00:31:23.550 --> 00:31:24.620
Excuse me.

00:31:24.620 --> 00:31:27.018
I'd like very much to talk
to you about any of your

00:31:27.018 --> 00:31:30.701
reactions to this educational
problem here in this county.

00:31:30.701 --> 00:31:32.665
Shut the door, maybe we will.

00:31:32.665 --> 00:31:33.647
Talk to them.

00:31:33.647 --> 00:31:36.593
Could you shut the
door, please?

00:31:36.593 --> 00:31:40.030
I noticed you were sitting in
the meeting this morning.

00:31:40.030 --> 00:31:42.360
I wonder what your reactions
were or why you came.

00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:43.770
I was invited to come.

00:31:43.770 --> 00:31:44.710
By whom?

00:31:44.710 --> 00:31:49.150
A lady friend of mine who's
in the building here.

00:31:49.150 --> 00:31:50.734
By one of the supervisors.

00:31:50.734 --> 00:31:51.231
That's all.

00:31:51.231 --> 00:31:54.710
And what do you feel about
this whole situation?

00:31:54.710 --> 00:31:55.704
You get it.

00:31:55.704 --> 00:31:58.189
I'll take you one at a time.

00:31:58.189 --> 00:32:01.171
I think that we are very
satisfied with the conditions

00:32:01.171 --> 00:32:02.662
as they are now.

00:32:02.662 --> 00:32:05.644
And we don't want
a lot of change.

00:32:05.644 --> 00:32:08.626
We like to keep it as it is.

00:32:08.626 --> 00:32:13.610
Let each person stay on the
inside of the fence.

00:32:13.610 --> 00:32:15.537
You wouldn't be for
desegregation at

00:32:15.537 --> 00:32:16.650
all, then, would you?

00:32:16.650 --> 00:32:16.825
No.

00:32:16.825 --> 00:32:19.946
I think segregation is
the proper thing.

00:32:19.946 --> 00:32:22.400
What about this business that
a lot of people say about

00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.000
being created equal?

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:26.040
What's your feelings
about that?

00:32:26.040 --> 00:32:27.410
I don't think they are.

00:32:27.410 --> 00:32:29.800
Some of my best friends
are Negros.

00:32:29.800 --> 00:32:34.720
If I got into trouble I think
the Negros would come to me as

00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.654
quick as anybody else
in the world.

00:32:37.654 --> 00:32:39.610
I give you a little instance.

00:32:39.610 --> 00:32:42.299
I was standing down on the
street with a gentleman from

00:32:42.299 --> 00:32:45.967
another city last Saturday,
and I reckon 20

00:32:45.967 --> 00:32:47.434
to 30 Negros passed.

00:32:47.434 --> 00:32:48.901
And I spoke to them.

00:32:48.901 --> 00:32:49.390
Good morning, John.

00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:50.368
How are you getting along?

00:32:50.368 --> 00:32:51.835
Very well, thank
you, Mr. Ward.

00:32:51.835 --> 00:32:52.813
Getting on fine.

00:32:52.813 --> 00:32:57.390
And that went on for
15 to 20 Negros in

00:32:57.390 --> 00:32:59.040
less than 15 minutes.

00:32:59.040 --> 00:33:02.800
And we love our people.

00:33:02.800 --> 00:33:05.790
The laws are simply
relics of slavery.

00:33:05.790 --> 00:33:08.190
And there are maintained to keep
the colored person down

00:33:08.190 --> 00:33:09.190
and the white person up.

00:33:09.190 --> 00:33:10.695
And that's the simple
truth of the case.

00:33:10.695 --> 00:33:13.470
And I think that if you talk
to the average man on the

00:33:13.470 --> 00:33:16.880
street he would tell you that
marriage is a fundamental

00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:17.820
right of man.

00:33:17.820 --> 00:33:21.110
This is my personal opinion.

00:33:21.110 --> 00:33:24.753
I think that the problem goes
back into your basic beliefs.

00:33:24.753 --> 00:33:28.540
And I think that the basic thing
that the people of the

00:33:28.540 --> 00:33:32.720
South are thinking about is
intermixture of the races.

00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:36.320
And I don't see how you can keep
intermixture of the races

00:33:36.320 --> 00:33:37.860
if you have integration.

00:33:37.860 --> 00:33:41.480
I'm not saying that would happen
immediately, but I say

00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:45.400
that some of the lower class
white people would probably

00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.800
marry with some of your better
Negros, perhaps, or some of

00:33:49.800 --> 00:33:53.575
your lower Negros, that there
would, in time, come forth one

00:33:53.575 --> 00:33:55.710
of those would marry with some
of your better class white

00:33:55.710 --> 00:33:59.530
people, your farmers around
here, your people who own

00:33:59.530 --> 00:34:00.209
their own farms.

00:34:00.209 --> 00:34:02.986
Then the first thing you know
we would be a mongrel race.

00:34:10.650 --> 00:34:12.260
Segregation, from the
very beginning was

00:34:12.260 --> 00:34:13.769
fundamentally about sex.

00:34:13.769 --> 00:34:18.240
It was designed to prevent men
and women of different races,

00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:21.340
black and white, from occupying
the same spaces in

00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:22.570
which they might be tempted.

00:34:22.570 --> 00:34:26.450
And so the more intimate a space
was, a railroad car, a

00:34:26.450 --> 00:34:30.769
parlor, a restaurant, a school
room, the more likely it was

00:34:30.769 --> 00:34:32.610
to be segregated.

00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:36.220
Ironically, the Loving case,
being about love and being

00:34:36.220 --> 00:34:38.459
about sex, is actually
was segregation

00:34:38.459 --> 00:34:42.050
was about all along.

00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:46.110
Challenging the
anti-miscegenation laws was

00:34:46.110 --> 00:34:51.030
the most serious threat to the
white racists, and even those

00:34:51.030 --> 00:34:55.380
whites who were not racist but
were very pro establish.

00:34:55.380 --> 00:35:00.050
I looked at it as an
unbelievable challenge for a

00:35:00.050 --> 00:35:04.730
lawyer one or two years out of
law school to be getting

00:35:04.730 --> 00:35:08.935
involved in what was sure do be
a major civil rights case.

00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:16.840
We were very cautious at that
time and very afraid to have

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:17.980
them come into Virginia.

00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:19.910
So I met with them
at my office in

00:35:19.910 --> 00:35:21.530
the District of Columbia.

00:35:21.530 --> 00:35:26.370
And our big problem at that
time, a really big legal

00:35:26.370 --> 00:35:29.980
problem was how to take a case
that was more than five years

00:35:29.980 --> 00:35:32.570
old, which had a judgment more
than five years old, a

00:35:32.570 --> 00:35:36.170
judgment of conviction and get
it back into the stream of the

00:35:36.170 --> 00:35:40.320
courts, that is appeal the
judgment of conviction when it

00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.910
was more than five years old.

00:35:43.910 --> 00:35:47.630
Under Virginia law any judgment
more than 60 days old

00:35:47.630 --> 00:35:49.070
can't be appealed.

00:35:49.070 --> 00:35:52.780
And we had this very big
technical problem to overcome.

00:35:52.780 --> 00:35:55.870
And it was months and months of
research involved until we

00:35:55.870 --> 00:35:58.560
found a simple technical
way of doing it.

00:35:58.560 --> 00:36:02.200
It seemed simple once we found
it, but it was actually the

00:36:02.200 --> 00:36:05.570
difficult part of the case
in the beginning.

00:36:05.570 --> 00:36:09.120
Since their sentence was a
suspended sentence, we found

00:36:09.120 --> 00:36:12.420
law that said that the judge of
the original trial court,

00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:15.150
judge Leon Bazile who had
sentenced them in the first

00:36:15.150 --> 00:36:19.160
place still had jurisdiction
over the case.

00:36:19.160 --> 00:36:22.660
That is any suspended sentence
is always within the breast to

00:36:22.660 --> 00:36:24.290
the court that suspended it.

00:36:24.290 --> 00:36:30.530
So we filed a motion, that is I
filed a motion to vacate the

00:36:30.530 --> 00:36:33.430
judgment of conviction and to
set aside the sentence.

00:36:33.430 --> 00:36:36.460
The extreme danger was that if
the case was reopened they

00:36:36.460 --> 00:36:38.890
could've been put in jail
for five years, if

00:36:38.890 --> 00:36:40.670
you vacate the sentence.

00:36:40.670 --> 00:36:44.085
And then there's a good
possibility of you could never

00:36:44.085 --> 00:36:46.150
reach the Constitutional issues
because they pled

00:36:46.150 --> 00:36:49.520
guilty and they waived
those issues.

00:36:49.520 --> 00:36:53.770
Judge Bazile finally issued an
order denying my motion to

00:36:53.770 --> 00:36:57.230
vacate the judgment and set
aside the sentence.

00:36:57.230 --> 00:36:58.890
Judge Bazile, in his
opinion, had the

00:36:58.890 --> 00:37:00.680
following thing to say.

00:37:00.680 --> 00:37:04.100
"All mighty God created the
races, white, black, yellow,

00:37:04.100 --> 00:37:05.070
malay, and red.

00:37:05.070 --> 00:37:07.460
And he placed them on
separate continents.

00:37:07.460 --> 00:37:09.710
And but for the interference
with his arrangements there

00:37:09.710 --> 00:37:11.880
would be no cause for
such marriages.

00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.460
The fact that he separated the
races shows that he did not

00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:17.660
intend the races to mix."
the laws are ludicrous.

00:37:17.660 --> 00:37:21.066
Now this is a 20th century
opinion written in 1963.

00:37:21.066 --> 00:37:24.910
This is not 1863, 1763,
or even early 1900s.

00:37:24.910 --> 00:37:27.200
This is 1963.

00:37:27.200 --> 00:37:30.600
When Judge Bazile rendered his
opinion, he couldn't have done

00:37:30.600 --> 00:37:33.130
us a bigger favor than that
horrible language about the

00:37:33.130 --> 00:37:35.370
races on the separate
continents.

00:37:35.370 --> 00:37:38.600
The federal court will give
the state courts the first

00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:40.630
chance to interpret
their own laws.

00:37:40.630 --> 00:37:43.610
That's how the two courts can
get along with each other and

00:37:43.610 --> 00:37:46.025
exist in this joint federal
state society.

00:38:00.638 --> 00:38:02.114
You want to set up the sound?

00:38:02.114 --> 00:38:03.590
Yep.

00:38:03.590 --> 00:38:06.050
We've got our camera
down here.

00:38:06.050 --> 00:38:08.060
And if you just--

00:38:08.060 --> 00:38:09.580
It isn't set up yet.

00:38:13.460 --> 00:38:14.710
[INAUDIBLE]

00:38:22.680 --> 00:38:25.750
Mrs. Loving, how do you feel
about what happened here at

00:38:25.750 --> 00:38:26.490
court today?

00:38:26.490 --> 00:38:29.145
Well, I feel hopeful.

00:38:29.145 --> 00:38:29.990
I'm hopeful.

00:38:29.990 --> 00:38:34.670
I hope these judges will
decide for us.

00:38:34.670 --> 00:38:38.220
Where are you going now?

00:38:38.220 --> 00:38:40.480
I guess we'll go back
to Washington.

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:42.530
You think you may go
back to Washington.

00:38:42.530 --> 00:38:44.530
Mr. Loving, do you have anything
to say about what

00:38:44.530 --> 00:38:45.690
went on in the court today?

00:38:45.690 --> 00:38:46.103
No.

00:38:46.103 --> 00:38:50.230
I don't have anything to say.

00:38:50.230 --> 00:38:52.680
Thank you very much.

00:38:52.680 --> 00:38:54.150
I want to--

00:38:54.150 --> 00:38:55.650
Cut, Tommy.

00:38:55.650 --> 00:38:56.900
I want to ask you--

00:38:59.180 --> 00:39:03.950
what camera record and where you
think you'll go from here.

00:39:03.950 --> 00:39:06.330
Why don't I ask her to
ask it [INAUDIBLE]

00:39:06.330 --> 00:39:07.326
All right.

00:39:07.326 --> 00:39:08.576
He's very upset.

00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:21.710
Mr. Cohen, could you explain to
me just went on-- what went

00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:23.187
on in the court--

00:39:23.187 --> 00:39:26.110
Let's try that again.

00:39:26.110 --> 00:39:28.780
Mr. Cohen, could you explain to
me just what went on in the

00:39:28.780 --> 00:39:30.290
courtroom today?

00:39:30.290 --> 00:39:33.660
Yes, we had a hearing
in the Loving case.

00:39:33.660 --> 00:39:36.140
And the judges listened
to our argument.

00:39:36.140 --> 00:39:37.520
They listened to the
state's argument.

00:39:37.520 --> 00:39:40.430
They're going to consider
several issues, first of all,

00:39:40.430 --> 00:39:42.860
whether they should even hear
the case and whether we are

00:39:42.860 --> 00:39:44.580
properly in this court.

00:39:44.580 --> 00:39:47.860
Or they're going to decide if we
should proceed in the state

00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:52.620
courts up through appeal of the
Virginia Supreme Court and

00:39:52.620 --> 00:39:54.515
then possibly on to
the Supreme Court

00:39:54.515 --> 00:39:55.140
of the United States.

00:39:55.140 --> 00:39:56.100
They heard us.

00:39:56.100 --> 00:39:56.830
They listened to us.

00:39:56.830 --> 00:39:57.816
They listed to both sides.

00:39:57.816 --> 00:40:00.609
And they're going to let us
know just as soon as they

00:40:00.609 --> 00:40:01.753
reach a decision.

00:40:01.753 --> 00:40:04.515
Now if this court should decide
to abstain and send it

00:40:04.515 --> 00:40:07.225
back to the state, would
that be prejudicial to

00:40:07.225 --> 00:40:09.130
your case in any way?

00:40:09.130 --> 00:40:11.134
Well, we have a decision
to make there.

00:40:11.134 --> 00:40:12.550
We might be--

00:40:12.550 --> 00:40:13.966
[INAUDIBLE]

00:40:13.966 --> 00:40:15.860
So you have your friend's car.

00:40:15.860 --> 00:40:16.330
Uh huh.

00:40:16.330 --> 00:40:18.229
Now where are you?

00:40:18.229 --> 00:40:21.163
I know where all
the [INAUDIBLE]

00:40:21.163 --> 00:40:21.652
No.

00:40:21.652 --> 00:40:22.630
It's not that far.

00:40:22.630 --> 00:40:23.608
Yes, it is.

00:40:23.608 --> 00:40:25.564
You know I come from
Bowling Green.

00:40:25.564 --> 00:40:26.053
No.

00:40:26.053 --> 00:40:26.550
Uh uh.

00:40:26.550 --> 00:40:27.010
I don't know that.

00:40:27.010 --> 00:40:29.620
That's only about 10 minutes
from here, 15 minutes far,

00:40:29.620 --> 00:40:30.486
then you follow us.

00:40:30.486 --> 00:40:30.920
Let's go.

00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:31.770
Nice to have met you,
Mrs. Cohen.

00:40:31.770 --> 00:40:33.020
Good luck to you folks.

00:40:33.020 --> 00:40:33.656
Nice to have met you.

00:40:33.656 --> 00:40:34.330
Thank you.

00:40:34.330 --> 00:40:35.560
Thanks, Bernie.

00:40:35.560 --> 00:40:36.810
Thanks, Phil.

00:40:40.342 --> 00:40:45.776
It would be better if we
didn't stay together.

00:40:45.776 --> 00:40:47.580
I mean, if he stayed in his
mother's home and I--

00:40:47.580 --> 00:40:48.295
Can you do that?

00:40:48.295 --> 00:40:50.380
Can you stay down here
and stay separately?

00:40:50.380 --> 00:40:51.040
Yeah.

00:40:51.040 --> 00:40:53.023
See, but if they're out to
bother you, they're not going

00:40:53.023 --> 00:40:55.015
to make that distinction that
you're staying separately.

00:40:58.110 --> 00:40:58.880
I'll say this.

00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:01.020
It's got to cost you a lot of
money to move up there and a

00:41:01.020 --> 00:41:02.440
lot of trouble.

00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:05.490
And if you don't mind the
possibility or the

00:41:05.490 --> 00:41:10.500
inconvenience of being in jail
for a few hours, that's what

00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:11.125
it might be.

00:41:11.125 --> 00:41:12.257
It might be a half hour.

00:41:12.257 --> 00:41:14.310
It might be five or six hours.

00:41:14.310 --> 00:41:16.620
But I give you my word
that it couldn't be

00:41:16.620 --> 00:41:17.900
any longer than that.

00:41:17.900 --> 00:41:18.440
Right, Phil?

00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:20.080
I just don't see how
it could be.

00:41:20.080 --> 00:41:21.720
You have cards with both
our numbers on it.

00:41:21.720 --> 00:41:23.130
So call, home, any time.

00:41:23.130 --> 00:41:24.210
Don't worry about time.

00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:27.460
How about if they and arrested
you would somebody else know

00:41:27.460 --> 00:41:29.630
about it so they could call
us before you could.

00:41:29.630 --> 00:41:30.340
Yeah.

00:41:30.340 --> 00:41:32.165
Leave our numbers with
you friends, OK?

00:41:32.165 --> 00:41:32.283
Yeah.

00:41:32.283 --> 00:41:33.400
We'll just give it to them.

00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:34.350
Give it to them.

00:41:34.350 --> 00:41:35.800
And there's people that
we stay close to.

00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:36.470
All right.

00:41:36.470 --> 00:41:37.830
When they come after us,
they'll know it, see?

00:41:37.830 --> 00:41:38.040
That's fine.

00:41:38.040 --> 00:41:39.730
They'll notify them or they'll
call y'all, either one.

00:41:39.730 --> 00:41:43.090
If you want to stay down
here, stick around.

00:41:43.090 --> 00:41:46.090
And if anybody arrests you,
just have them get

00:41:46.090 --> 00:41:46.735
in touch with us.

00:41:46.735 --> 00:41:47.860
And we'll hope right to it.

00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:50.700
We won't let you stay in jail
one minute longer than it

00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:53.820
takes us to get down here
and get you out.

00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:54.257
OK?

00:41:54.257 --> 00:41:54.694
OK.

00:41:54.694 --> 00:41:55.131
OK.

00:41:55.131 --> 00:41:56.030
All right.

00:41:56.030 --> 00:41:57.210
You two feel OK.

00:41:57.210 --> 00:41:58.200
Good luck to you.

00:41:58.200 --> 00:41:58.510
Yeah.

00:41:58.510 --> 00:41:59.150
All right.

00:41:59.150 --> 00:42:00.350
You did a good job today, Dick.

00:42:00.350 --> 00:42:02.690
Thank you.

00:42:02.690 --> 00:42:04.500
I sure appreciate what
y'all doing.

00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:05.885
Well, that's all right.

00:42:05.885 --> 00:42:07.810
We had to come down and
pick up some books

00:42:07.810 --> 00:42:09.280
from Goochland anyhow.

00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:09.770
Yeah.

00:42:09.770 --> 00:42:11.240
Yeah.

00:42:11.240 --> 00:42:11.730
OK.

00:42:11.730 --> 00:42:12.260
Bye.

00:42:12.260 --> 00:42:12.940
We'll see you.

00:42:12.940 --> 00:42:13.180
So long.

00:42:13.180 --> 00:42:13.490
Bye.

00:42:13.490 --> 00:42:16.910
We applied for a temporary
restraining order.

00:42:16.910 --> 00:42:19.020
Because they want to stay in
Virginia, and they wouldn't

00:42:19.020 --> 00:42:21.350
get prosecuted again
or violated.

00:42:21.350 --> 00:42:24.660
Remember, there still was an
outstanding sentence on them.

00:42:24.660 --> 00:42:26.970
And we didn't know it would be
reversed or not reversed.

00:42:26.970 --> 00:42:30.400
And you couldn't chance getting
them in worse trouble.

00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.250
So we wanted the federal court
to step and at least suspend

00:42:34.250 --> 00:42:35.870
that sentence.

00:42:35.870 --> 00:42:38.650
But we couldn't show there was
irreparable injury, because we

00:42:38.650 --> 00:42:40.590
couldn't admit they were
living in Virginia.

00:42:40.590 --> 00:42:43.300
We'd be admitting on the record
they were violating the

00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:44.080
court order.

00:42:44.080 --> 00:42:45.570
And they were supposed
to be living in DC.

00:42:48.720 --> 00:42:53.340
You couldn't deal very well by
phone or letter, particularly

00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:56.110
since Richard was not
very communicative.

00:42:56.110 --> 00:42:58.650
I met them in Alexandria.

00:42:58.650 --> 00:43:00.450
I know it was a violation of the
rule, but I remember they

00:43:00.450 --> 00:43:01.970
came to Alexandria.

00:43:01.970 --> 00:43:04.270
And I went over the
lawsuit with them.

00:43:04.270 --> 00:43:07.550
Richard said virtually
nothing.

00:43:07.550 --> 00:43:08.870
She spoke very little.

00:43:08.870 --> 00:43:10.790
But when she spoke she was very
articulate, Mrs. Loving.

00:43:10.790 --> 00:43:13.775
If you saw what she'd wrote, she
wrote in a very neat hand

00:43:13.775 --> 00:43:15.990
and excellent writing.

00:43:15.990 --> 00:43:19.790
It wasn't what you saw of people
in the South who'd been

00:43:19.790 --> 00:43:22.820
so oppressed, as the minority
people are in the South.

00:43:25.560 --> 00:43:28.120
And she was instantly likable.

00:43:28.120 --> 00:43:33.510
I had a natural first negative
reaction to Mr. Loving because

00:43:33.510 --> 00:43:36.850
I'd been in the deep South, and
I was very suspicious of

00:43:36.850 --> 00:43:38.260
people who looked
like rednecks.

00:43:38.260 --> 00:43:39.670
And boy, he looked
like a redneck.

00:43:39.670 --> 00:43:43.090
He had a red neck
and a crew cut.

00:43:43.090 --> 00:43:46.010
What came through about the
two of them was just what

00:43:46.010 --> 00:43:46.570
everyone says.

00:43:46.570 --> 00:43:48.740
They were very much in love.

00:43:48.740 --> 00:43:52.440
This was a guy, if you took the
character of him he would

00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:53.730
have left her.

00:43:53.730 --> 00:43:54.490
He didn't need all that grief.

00:43:54.490 --> 00:43:57.240
He was a white guy who was
in the ruling class.

00:43:57.240 --> 00:43:58.720
It never was an issue.

00:43:58.720 --> 00:44:00.170
It never was a question.

00:44:00.170 --> 00:44:02.280
It never was a possibility.

00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:06.168
I really don't know what's going
to happen this time.

00:44:06.168 --> 00:44:09.670
Well, what would happen
if you lost the case?

00:44:09.670 --> 00:44:13.010
Well, if we lost we would have
to go back to Washington.

00:44:13.010 --> 00:44:14.805
If we lose in Richmond, he's
going to take it to the

00:44:14.805 --> 00:44:16.326
Supreme Court.

00:44:16.326 --> 00:44:19.798
But if we lose there then we'll
have to move back to

00:44:19.798 --> 00:44:21.286
Washington and live.

00:44:21.286 --> 00:44:23.820
Yeah.

00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:26.506
If you get it to the Supreme
Court, I don't see how you

00:44:26.506 --> 00:44:27.460
could lose.

00:44:27.460 --> 00:44:29.701
I don't think so, but--

00:44:29.701 --> 00:44:31.110
If you can get it there.

00:44:33.895 --> 00:44:37.450
Well, he said that he
would try anyway.

00:44:37.450 --> 00:44:40.070
At least he said he could.

00:44:40.070 --> 00:44:43.720
He said if he lose in Richmond
that it would go to the

00:44:43.720 --> 00:44:45.180
Supreme Court in October.

00:44:49.428 --> 00:44:50.400
What if you win?

00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:52.840
Will they take it to the
Supreme Court then?

00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:53.290
No.

00:44:53.290 --> 00:44:54.140
I don't think so.

00:44:54.140 --> 00:44:55.390
I don't know.

00:45:00.352 --> 00:45:05.230
Well, actually, though I'm sure
the publicity isn't too

00:45:05.230 --> 00:45:07.595
pleasant, it'll probably
work out.

00:45:07.595 --> 00:45:09.720
And it'll work out for a
lot of other people.

00:45:09.720 --> 00:45:12.250
Yes.

00:45:12.250 --> 00:45:13.953
I hope so.

00:45:13.953 --> 00:45:16.030
And, you know, because
of that it's not so

00:45:16.030 --> 00:45:18.870
much on me and Richard.

00:45:18.870 --> 00:45:20.090
Because we could go away.

00:45:20.090 --> 00:45:21.375
But it's the principle.

00:45:21.375 --> 00:45:23.050
It's the law.

00:45:23.050 --> 00:45:26.390
I don't think it's right.

00:45:26.390 --> 00:45:30.173
And if we do win, we'll be
helping a lot of people.

00:45:30.173 --> 00:45:32.290
Yeah.

00:45:32.290 --> 00:45:36.120
And I knew we have some enemies,
but we have some

00:45:36.120 --> 00:45:37.370
friends too.

00:45:40.096 --> 00:45:43.320
So it really don't make any
difference about my enemies.

00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:53.300
What time do we have to
be over in Washington?

00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:54.285
10:00.

00:45:54.285 --> 00:45:56.600
Well, the Lovings are going
to call at 9:15.

00:45:56.600 --> 00:45:58.020
Boy, I wish they had a phone.

00:46:01.250 --> 00:46:02.760
They called me at
home last night.

00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:05.850
I told them to call us at 9:15
this morning, that we'd no

00:46:05.850 --> 00:46:07.360
doubt have the decision
by then.

00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:10.065
At that time I didn't realize
we could try picking it up

00:46:10.065 --> 00:46:11.315
this early this morning.

00:46:22.720 --> 00:46:23.670
You want to save the envelope?

00:46:23.670 --> 00:46:24.920
It's historic.

00:46:26.510 --> 00:46:29.070
If you assume, which I guess we
have to, Judge Lewis knows

00:46:29.070 --> 00:46:32.670
what he's doing, he's trying to
trap us away from the issue

00:46:32.670 --> 00:46:33.850
of the statute itself.

00:46:33.850 --> 00:46:35.100
I bet on it.

00:46:39.020 --> 00:46:41.510
No, it doesn't look that way.

00:46:41.510 --> 00:46:44.380
It looks like they're petting
us towards the statute.

00:46:44.380 --> 00:46:46.235
Well, when you go back to
state government court,

00:46:46.235 --> 00:46:49.350
remember we're reserving some
of the procedural questions?

00:46:49.350 --> 00:46:50.590
We could always bring them
to the state court.

00:46:50.590 --> 00:46:52.430
They have to raise all our
questions in the state court

00:46:52.430 --> 00:46:53.790
this time around, right?

00:46:53.790 --> 00:46:54.210
Yeah.

00:46:54.210 --> 00:46:54.630
All right.

00:46:54.630 --> 00:46:57.840
And then I bet that when we
raise these sentence questions

00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.320
they're just going to find the
sentence unconsitutational.

00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:01.260
And it'll never reach
the statute.

00:47:01.260 --> 00:47:02.780
We could be in the state court
the next two years.

00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:05.330
That order says they have
to reach the statute.

00:47:05.330 --> 00:47:06.550
I know what it says, but--

00:47:06.550 --> 00:47:09.870
Well, I read it very quickly.

00:47:09.870 --> 00:47:12.010
But I thought it said that if
the state court didn't read

00:47:12.010 --> 00:47:12.515
the statutes--

00:47:12.515 --> 00:47:14.280
Either or.

00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.450
--they're going to come
back and take it.

00:47:16.450 --> 00:47:17.510
So I think you're wrong there.

00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:20.220
I think they definitely want
to see a resolution of the

00:47:20.220 --> 00:47:22.000
constitutionality of
those statutes.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:24.130
And if the State Supreme Court
of Virginia doesn't do it,

00:47:24.130 --> 00:47:26.290
they're telling us they're going
to do it, which is all

00:47:26.290 --> 00:47:26.940
right with me.

00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:30.990
I don't mind going through
the State Supreme Court.

00:47:30.990 --> 00:47:33.360
As long as it takes and whatever
it takes, so long as

00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:37.330
I know we can eventually get a
resolution of these statutes.

00:47:37.330 --> 00:47:39.380
I think he's abdicating
his federal

00:47:39.380 --> 00:47:41.950
authorities to the state.

00:47:41.950 --> 00:47:45.480
Well, I don't know.

00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:47.110
I think there'll be a
resolution of it.

00:47:47.110 --> 00:47:48.350
And that's what's important.

00:47:48.350 --> 00:47:51.780
I don't think there's
anything more than a

00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:53.140
delay involved here.

00:47:55.790 --> 00:47:58.460
Well, look, you can't
really say.

00:47:58.460 --> 00:47:59.340
You know, you've got
to read those

00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:00.995
opinions very, very carefully.

00:48:00.995 --> 00:48:05.090
Because sometimes the emphasis
you get the first time you

00:48:05.090 --> 00:48:06.365
read it is not what
you get later.

00:48:06.365 --> 00:48:08.790
And when we read it later--

00:48:08.790 --> 00:48:11.210
I've read it 100
times already.

00:48:11.210 --> 00:48:14.580
I read it by Judge Cox 50 times,
I read it 25 times by

00:48:14.580 --> 00:48:19.530
Judge [? Mise ?], and I read
it by all the other judges.

00:48:19.530 --> 00:48:20.855
Lainoff, Cohen and Cohen.

00:48:23.735 --> 00:48:25.936
May I tell him who's calling?

00:48:25.936 --> 00:48:28.870
Just a moment.

00:48:28.870 --> 00:48:31.110
Mrs. Loving.

00:48:31.110 --> 00:48:32.042
On eight.

00:48:32.042 --> 00:48:32.930
Nine.

00:48:32.930 --> 00:48:34.910
Hello.

00:48:34.910 --> 00:48:37.450
Mrs. Loving, we got
the decision in

00:48:37.450 --> 00:48:39.400
your case this morning.

00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:43.980
And the court that we were
before, the Federal District

00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:49.830
Court in Richmond has sent us
back to the state courts and

00:48:49.830 --> 00:48:54.020
retain jurisdiction of your
case at the same time.

00:48:54.020 --> 00:48:56.200
Now that's a little bit
complicated, and I'll see if I

00:48:56.200 --> 00:49:01.210
can explain it easily.

00:49:01.210 --> 00:49:04.740
The judges have told us that
we have to go through the

00:49:04.740 --> 00:49:10.810
Supreme Court of Virginia first
before we can properly

00:49:10.810 --> 00:49:14.360
ask this court to resolve the
constitutional issues

00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.210
involved, this federal
court that we're in.

00:49:17.210 --> 00:49:20.850
But this federal court has said
that if we don't get the

00:49:20.850 --> 00:49:23.470
constitutional issues resolved
in the Supreme Court of

00:49:23.470 --> 00:49:27.050
Virginia then they're promising
that they will take

00:49:27.050 --> 00:49:30.620
your case back in the federal
court and hear the

00:49:30.620 --> 00:49:32.880
constitutional issues.

00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:37.350
So it's a pretty good decision,
in that we know that

00:49:37.350 --> 00:49:40.720
we're going to get the issue
decided once and for all

00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:42.600
sometime, somewhere.

00:49:42.600 --> 00:49:44.850
Now that's better than anything
we've known in the

00:49:44.850 --> 00:49:45.960
past two years.

00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:46.870
We always had--

00:49:46.870 --> 00:49:47.220
Mr. Walters?

00:49:47.220 --> 00:49:48.340
--a little worry about--

00:49:48.340 --> 00:49:49.410
Mr. Cohen's on the phone right
now talking to Mrs. Loving.

00:49:49.410 --> 00:49:52.830
--whether we would
be able to--

00:49:52.830 --> 00:49:53.570
Oh, yes.

00:49:53.570 --> 00:49:54.170
Yes, sir.

00:49:54.170 --> 00:49:55.610
--get it resolved anywhere.

00:49:55.610 --> 00:49:56.990
But we now know we can.

00:49:56.990 --> 00:49:57.290
Oh, you are?

00:49:57.290 --> 00:49:58.390
It's just a matter of time.

00:49:58.390 --> 00:49:59.370
OK, thanks a lot for calling.

00:49:59.370 --> 00:49:59.870
Yes.

00:49:59.870 --> 00:50:01.230
The court has also ordered--

00:50:01.230 --> 00:50:01.460
Go ahead.

00:50:01.460 --> 00:50:04.670
--that you be granted bail in
the event you and your husband

00:50:04.670 --> 00:50:06.690
are arrested again.

00:50:06.690 --> 00:50:06.730
OK.

00:50:06.730 --> 00:50:07.100
Well, he's talking to her now.

00:50:07.100 --> 00:50:08.210
They didn't say that they
wouldn't allow--

00:50:08.210 --> 00:50:08.360
Thanks for calling.

00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:08.870
--the state to arrest you.

00:50:08.870 --> 00:50:08.990
Bye.

00:50:08.990 --> 00:50:12.000
But they did say that if you are
taken into custody against

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:17.070
they assure you that the federal
court will grant writ

00:50:17.070 --> 00:50:22.130
and bail, which means we could
get you out of jail in a very

00:50:22.130 --> 00:50:24.030
short time, perhaps a
matter of minutes

00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:27.510
or, at most, an hour.

00:50:27.510 --> 00:50:28.000
OK?

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:31.020
So it's another long court fight
in front of us, and you

00:50:31.020 --> 00:50:32.270
just have to be patient.

00:50:32.270 --> 00:50:35.890
But the wheels of justice
grind slowly.

00:50:35.890 --> 00:50:36.870
OK?

00:50:36.870 --> 00:50:38.190
Is your husband there?

00:50:40.710 --> 00:50:43.850
Maybe we'll lose the small
battles and win the big war.

00:50:43.850 --> 00:50:45.329
That would be worth it.

00:50:45.329 --> 00:50:48.287
Yes, it would.

00:50:48.287 --> 00:50:52.724
[CHILDREN SPEAKING INAUDIBLY]

00:50:52.724 --> 00:50:56.175
Don, go in there and
get a soda bottle.

00:50:56.175 --> 00:50:59.133
And go over there and ask
grandma to send a little over.

00:51:16.388 --> 00:51:19.750
Is your grandma living
across the street?

00:51:19.750 --> 00:51:21.220
My husband's mother
lives across--

00:51:21.220 --> 00:51:22.470
Oh.

00:51:28.200 --> 00:51:33.550
What are your plans
if you win now?

00:51:33.550 --> 00:51:35.400
What would you do?

00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:35.945
Where would you live?

00:51:35.945 --> 00:51:37.880
And what would you do?

00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:41.200
Well, my husband's father, he
gave us an acre of land right

00:51:41.200 --> 00:51:44.730
across the road there, and
that's where we'd build.

00:51:44.730 --> 00:51:47.170
Then I'll be close to my mother,
and he'll be close to

00:51:47.170 --> 00:51:48.432
his family.

00:51:48.432 --> 00:51:50.980
Do you feel close to
your families?

00:51:50.980 --> 00:51:51.740
Yeah.

00:51:51.740 --> 00:51:52.050
Uh huh.

00:51:52.050 --> 00:51:54.120
We're very close.

00:51:54.120 --> 00:51:59.700
And that's what will do,
you know, if we win.

00:51:59.700 --> 00:52:02.410
If we don't win, then we
have to leave again.

00:52:02.410 --> 00:52:04.217
I dread to even think
about it.

00:53:39.144 --> 00:53:42.750
They barked up the wrong tree.

00:53:42.750 --> 00:53:47.930
I guess they thought that they
were poor and low class, as

00:53:47.930 --> 00:53:52.050
the church say they were, that
they wouldn't do anything.

00:53:52.050 --> 00:53:54.750
So I guess they determined that
they were gonna show them

00:53:54.750 --> 00:53:59.090
they may be poor, and they may
be low class, as he would say,

00:53:59.090 --> 00:54:03.090
but they had determination and
the will to come back and do

00:54:03.090 --> 00:54:05.060
what they need to do to
be with their family.

00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:18.540
She was only 18 years old or
17 when they get married.

00:54:18.540 --> 00:54:26.010
And Richard was a big
husky bricklayer.

00:54:26.010 --> 00:54:31.580
But even he was upset to he knew
that the law was against

00:54:31.580 --> 00:54:37.770
him and he just wanted me to
go see Judge Bazile and

00:54:37.770 --> 00:54:41.470
convince Judge Bazile to let
them come back into Virginia.

00:54:41.470 --> 00:54:43.960
When I told him I didn't think
it was going to work that way

00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:46.400
and that I thought this case
was likely to go to the

00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:53.060
Supreme Court of the States, his
jaw about dropped, and he

00:54:53.060 --> 00:54:55.250
couldn't accept what I
was saying to him.

00:54:55.250 --> 00:54:58.560
He just said, can't you just go
see Judge Bazile and tell

00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:00.230
him we don't want
to harm anybody?

00:55:00.230 --> 00:55:03.620
We just want to live in
peace in Virginia.

00:55:03.620 --> 00:55:07.660
He just said, you crossed
the line with me.

00:55:07.660 --> 00:55:09.050
And I'm an American.

00:55:09.050 --> 00:55:10.620
I have a right to be free.

00:55:10.620 --> 00:55:12.260
I have a right to choose
a wife and live

00:55:12.260 --> 00:55:13.340
with the woman I love.

00:55:13.340 --> 00:55:16.200
And you've got no right
tell me no, period.

00:55:16.200 --> 00:55:24.080
It was a very exciting time
for Phil and I with this

00:55:24.080 --> 00:55:28.210
research we were doing and
talking to people who had

00:55:28.210 --> 00:55:32.480
handled other civil rights cases
and getting all sorts of

00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:34.140
suggestions.

00:55:34.140 --> 00:55:36.080
They gave us lots
of suggestions.

00:55:36.080 --> 00:55:41.040
The bottom line was it's a civil
rights case with a 14th

00:55:41.040 --> 00:55:45.430
Amendment case with due process
and equal protection

00:55:45.430 --> 00:55:47.670
of the laws being the
major issues.

00:55:47.670 --> 00:55:48.370
All right.

00:55:48.370 --> 00:55:51.410
What are the things that can
only be done together by man

00:55:51.410 --> 00:55:54.590
and wife that they can't
do in Virginia?

00:55:54.590 --> 00:55:56.570
They can't come visit her
parents together.

00:55:56.570 --> 00:55:58.040
Or their friends.

00:55:58.040 --> 00:55:58.370
Or their friends.

00:55:58.370 --> 00:56:00.830
Well, children can't live with
them and go to school here.

00:56:00.830 --> 00:56:02.490
Breaking up the family
ought to be

00:56:02.490 --> 00:56:04.060
irreparable injury, if anything.

00:56:04.060 --> 00:56:06.620
This is strictly a segregation
problem.

00:56:06.620 --> 00:56:10.040
And the Supreme Court has said
time and again the federal

00:56:10.040 --> 00:56:13.456
courts have the right to
protect federal rights.

00:56:13.456 --> 00:56:15.110
And these are federal rights
we're talking about.

00:56:15.110 --> 00:56:18.890
Let's go back to the office and
get this thing on paper.

00:56:18.890 --> 00:56:21.870
They're not even thinking of
it as a civil rights case.

00:56:21.870 --> 00:56:23.860
They're thinking of it as an
ordinary criminal prosecution.

00:56:23.860 --> 00:56:26.877
Well, this is the old sore to
the state in all these civil

00:56:26.877 --> 00:56:27.800
rights cases.

00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:28.840
They don't want to argue
the segregation.

00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:30.970
They come and say, well,
procedurally the federal

00:56:30.970 --> 00:56:33.900
government is here to oppress
us and deny us our right.

00:56:33.900 --> 00:56:35.600
They never want to argue
the individual

00:56:35.600 --> 00:56:36.360
right of the person.

00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:38.860
They always want to argue
the right of the state.

00:56:38.860 --> 00:56:40.110
That's new problems.

00:56:46.710 --> 00:56:52.360
We knew it was obvious that no
Virginia state court was going

00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:54.210
to rule in our favor.

00:56:54.210 --> 00:56:59.360
And what Judge Bazile did when
he issued that racist opinion

00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:02.340
was give us a clear shot
to appeal to the

00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:04.130
Supreme Court of Virginia.

00:57:04.130 --> 00:57:07.030
We appealed to the Supreme Court
of Virginia, got another

00:57:07.030 --> 00:57:10.900
terrible decision denying
us relief.

00:57:10.900 --> 00:57:14.390
And then we had an appealable
order from there to the US

00:57:14.390 --> 00:57:15.640
Supreme Court.

00:57:21.380 --> 00:57:23.775
Well, hope springs eternal
in civil rights lawyers.

00:57:23.775 --> 00:57:26.255
You always think there's
a Supreme Court.

00:57:26.255 --> 00:57:29.810
You always know that the Supreme
Court takes 1 of 200

00:57:29.810 --> 00:57:32.750
and then maybe 1 out
of 400 cases.

00:57:32.750 --> 00:57:35.560
The odds of getting a review
in the Supreme Court in any

00:57:35.560 --> 00:57:37.630
case on any day is very slim.

00:57:41.950 --> 00:57:45.700
Maybe we were naive, but we were
certain the court would

00:57:45.700 --> 00:57:46.890
hear the case.

00:57:46.890 --> 00:57:49.220
Brown versus Board
of Education had

00:57:49.220 --> 00:57:50.470
already been decided.

00:57:57.010 --> 00:58:01.200
When the Supreme Court granted
review, we then were faced

00:58:01.200 --> 00:58:02.450
with a really major brief.

00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:08.120
I was only out of law school a
little over two years, so I

00:58:08.120 --> 00:58:11.370
wasn't qualified to be admitted
to the Supreme Court.

00:58:11.370 --> 00:58:13.310
So anything I did in the Supreme
Court I had to get

00:58:13.310 --> 00:58:16.210
Bernie Cohen to sign, because he
was out of law school more

00:58:16.210 --> 00:58:17.460
than three years.

00:58:19.460 --> 00:58:23.950
So we spent extensive time
writing what would be the best

00:58:23.950 --> 00:58:26.600
possible brief and called
upon anyone who

00:58:26.600 --> 00:58:27.440
was willing to help.

00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:30.850
We would pinch ourselves
and say, do we

00:58:30.850 --> 00:58:32.080
realize what we're doing?

00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:36.280
We're handling one of the most
important constitutional law

00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:39.020
cases ever to come
before the court.

00:58:42.700 --> 00:58:46.760
Bernie Cohen and I went to New
York to meet with the lawyers

00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:48.510
and be schooled.

00:58:48.510 --> 00:58:50.900
I went to New York first
to meet about who

00:58:50.900 --> 00:58:52.610
would argue the case.

00:58:52.610 --> 00:58:55.000
When you got up to the big
court, you had to deal with

00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:57.720
the National American Civil
Liberties Union.

00:58:57.720 --> 00:59:01.100
And Mel Wulf was the legal
director for many years.

00:59:01.100 --> 00:59:02.170
I went over it with him.

00:59:02.170 --> 00:59:04.510
I had argued in the federal
court below.

00:59:04.510 --> 00:59:07.110
I had argued in the Virginia
Supreme Court.

00:59:07.110 --> 00:59:10.060
I anything's inherent in the
democratic process, it's the

00:59:10.060 --> 00:59:12.760
freedom of the individual and
not the freedom of the state.

00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:15.780
You can have a democracy
without federalism.

00:59:15.780 --> 00:59:18.060
The problem was he didn't
want Bernie to argue.

00:59:18.060 --> 00:59:20.440
Bernie had no experience
in federal court.

00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:22.390
And I just felt it wasn't
going to be that way.

00:59:22.390 --> 00:59:24.430
I'd learned from Bill Kunstler
earlier that when you have a

00:59:24.430 --> 00:59:28.250
co-counsel you share
with them.

00:59:28.250 --> 00:59:31.640
We woke up at 5:00 or 6:00 in
the morning, or maybe earlier,

00:59:31.640 --> 00:59:33.360
if we slept at all.

00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:37.820
My wife, Ray, came with us.

00:59:37.820 --> 00:59:41.020
My secretary, Martha,
drove the car.

00:59:41.020 --> 00:59:43.690
And we gave her the assignment
of finding a parking lot to

00:59:43.690 --> 00:59:45.030
park the car.

00:59:45.030 --> 00:59:47.930
Because that's one of the
challenges that lawyers who

00:59:47.930 --> 00:59:53.320
argue before the Supreme Court
have, a place to park the car.

00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:55.490
It was a wonderful feeling.

00:59:55.490 --> 00:59:58.250
We said, we're here at last.

00:59:58.250 --> 01:00:00.260
We're just going to have
to do our best.

01:00:00.260 --> 01:00:01.450
We've rehearsed.

01:00:01.450 --> 01:00:02.340
We've studied.

01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:03.710
We've memorized.

01:00:03.710 --> 01:00:06.200
We understood the issues.

01:00:06.200 --> 01:00:10.620
We understood the questions that
were likely to be asked.

01:00:10.620 --> 01:00:13.140
I must have been nervous because
my hands were sweating

01:00:13.140 --> 01:00:18.470
so much that there were drips of
perspiration on the rostrum

01:00:18.470 --> 01:00:20.950
from which I argued
the motion.

01:00:20.950 --> 01:00:22.860
And I felt sorry for anybody
who had to come

01:00:22.860 --> 01:00:24.300
up there after me.

01:00:24.300 --> 01:00:25.825
They were going to get soaked.

01:00:25.825 --> 01:00:27.320
I had a moment of nerves.

01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:29.560
And then I picked up the quill--
they give you a quill

01:00:29.560 --> 01:00:31.830
when you argue your first time
in the Supreme Court-- and

01:00:31.830 --> 01:00:33.080
played with that.

01:00:33.080 --> 01:00:37.370
The funny part is when I stood
up to argue I was calm as I've

01:00:37.370 --> 01:00:38.340
ever been in my life.

01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:41.610
It's like sitting here
talking to you.

01:00:41.610 --> 01:00:43.690
I just felt I belonged
right there.

01:00:43.690 --> 01:00:47.600
I felt that's what I had trained
for, and I was just

01:00:47.600 --> 01:00:50.212
where I belonged doing
what I should do.

01:00:52.810 --> 01:01:01.800
Number 395, Richard Barry Loving
et al, appellants,

01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:03.140
versus Virginia.

01:01:07.310 --> 01:01:08.560
Mr. Hirshkop.

01:01:10.770 --> 01:01:12.600
Mr. Chief Justice, may
it please the court.

01:01:12.600 --> 01:01:13.960
I'm an Bernard S. Cohen.

01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:16.360
I would like to move the
admission of Mr. Phillip J.

01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:19.400
Hirshkop, pro hac vice, my
co-counsel in this matter.

01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:21.390
He's a member of the
bar of Virginia.

01:01:21.390 --> 01:01:23.622
Your motion is granted.

01:01:23.622 --> 01:01:26.340
Mr. Hirshkop, you may proceed.

01:01:26.340 --> 01:01:29.640
Thank you, Your Honor.

01:01:29.640 --> 01:01:32.480
You have before you today what
we consider the most odious of

01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:35.500
the segregation laws and
the slavery laws.

01:01:35.500 --> 01:01:38.950
And our view of this law, we
hope to clearly show, is that

01:01:38.950 --> 01:01:41.870
this is slavery law.

01:01:41.870 --> 01:01:44.195
These laws rob the Negro
race of their dignity.

01:01:44.195 --> 01:01:46.240
That's the worst part
of the laws.

01:01:46.240 --> 01:01:48.920
And that's what they're meant to
do, to hold the Negro class

01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:51.750
in a lower position, lower
social position to lower

01:01:51.750 --> 01:01:52.480
economic position.

01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:55.320
We ask that the court consider
the full spectrum of these

01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.970
laws and not just
the criminality.

01:01:58.970 --> 01:02:01.190
Because it's more than a
criminality that's at point

01:02:01.190 --> 01:02:04.900
here but the legitimacy of
children, the right to inherit

01:02:04.900 --> 01:02:07.180
land, and many, many rights.

01:02:07.180 --> 01:02:09.150
And in reaching a decision,
we ask you to reach

01:02:09.150 --> 01:02:11.704
that on that basis.

01:02:11.704 --> 01:02:13.470
Mr. Cohen.

01:02:13.470 --> 01:02:17.570
Mr. Chief Justice, may
it please the court.

01:02:17.570 --> 01:02:20.640
What is the danger to the
state of Virginia of

01:02:20.640 --> 01:02:22.250
interracial marriage?

01:02:22.250 --> 01:02:26.130
What is the state of the
danger to the people of

01:02:26.130 --> 01:02:27.893
interracial marriage?

01:02:27.893 --> 01:02:32.370
Marriage is a fundamental
right or liberty.

01:02:32.370 --> 01:02:36.840
And whether we go further and
urge that the court say that

01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:39.660
this is a fundamental right to
liberty retained by the people

01:02:39.660 --> 01:02:42.580
within the meaning of the 9th
Amendment and within the

01:02:42.580 --> 01:02:44.370
meaning of liberty and
the due process

01:02:44.370 --> 01:02:47.050
clause of the 14th Amendment.

01:02:47.050 --> 01:02:51.510
Surely there's some
limit on that.

01:02:51.510 --> 01:02:54.720
I suppose you would agree that
a state could forbid a

01:02:54.720 --> 01:02:57.103
marriage between a brother
and an sister, would you?

01:02:59.960 --> 01:03:01.210
Mr. McElwain.

01:03:03.690 --> 01:03:06.930
It is a matter of record agreed
to by all counsels in

01:03:06.930 --> 01:03:10.270
the course of this litigation
in the brief that one of the

01:03:10.270 --> 01:03:12.810
appellant here is a white person
within the definition

01:03:12.810 --> 01:03:13.840
of the Virginia law.

01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:15.990
The other appellant is a colored
person within the

01:03:15.990 --> 01:03:17.950
definition of Virginia law.

01:03:17.950 --> 01:03:20.420
Thus, the court is simply faced
with the proposition of

01:03:20.420 --> 01:03:26.410
whether or not a state may
validly forbid the interracial

01:03:26.410 --> 01:03:29.790
marriage of two groups, the
white and the colored in the

01:03:29.790 --> 01:03:33.650
context of the present
statute.

01:03:33.650 --> 01:03:37.020
The state has a natural, direct,
and vital interest in

01:03:37.020 --> 01:03:40.550
maximizing the number of
successful marriages which

01:03:40.550 --> 01:03:44.970
lead to stable homes and
families and in minimizing

01:03:44.970 --> 01:03:47.580
those which do not.

01:03:47.580 --> 01:03:51.780
It is clear from the most recent
available evidence on

01:03:51.780 --> 01:03:56.550
the psycho-sociological aspect
of this question that

01:03:56.550 --> 01:03:59.560
intermarried families are
subjected to much greater

01:03:59.560 --> 01:04:01.560
pressures and problems.

01:04:01.560 --> 01:04:07.270
It is not infrequent that the
children of intermarried

01:04:07.270 --> 01:04:10.150
parents are referred not merely
as the children of

01:04:10.150 --> 01:04:13.185
intermarried parents but as the
victims of intermarried

01:04:13.185 --> 01:04:17.520
parents and as the martyrs of
intermarried parents and that

01:04:17.520 --> 01:04:20.730
the state's prohibition of
interracial marriage for this

01:04:20.730 --> 01:04:24.250
reason stands on the same
footing as the prohibition of

01:04:24.250 --> 01:04:27.090
polygamist marriage or
incestuous marriage or the

01:04:27.090 --> 01:04:30.650
prescription of minimum ages at
which people may marry and

01:04:30.650 --> 01:04:34.170
the prevention of the marriage
of people who are mentally

01:04:34.170 --> 01:04:35.159
incompetent.

01:04:35.159 --> 01:04:39.071
There are people who have
the same feeling about

01:04:39.071 --> 01:04:40.538
interreligious marriages.

01:04:40.538 --> 01:04:45.917
But because that may be true,
would you think that the state

01:04:45.917 --> 01:04:49.210
could prohibit people
from having

01:04:49.210 --> 01:04:51.160
interreligious marriages?

01:04:51.160 --> 01:04:54.280
I think that the evidence and
support of the prohibition of

01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:57.320
interracial marriages is
stronger than that for the

01:04:57.320 --> 01:04:59.690
prohibition of interreligious
marriages.

01:04:59.690 --> 01:05:01.730
How can you say that?

01:05:01.730 --> 01:05:03.000
Well, we say that--

01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:05.820
Because you believe that?

01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:10.450
Mr. McElwain, didn't we in the
segregation cases have also

01:05:10.450 --> 01:05:15.310
argued to us what was supposed
to be scientific evidence to

01:05:15.310 --> 01:05:19.148
the effect that the whites would
be injured by having to

01:05:19.148 --> 01:05:23.351
go to school with the Negros?

01:05:23.351 --> 01:05:25.140
Your Honor, I--

01:05:25.140 --> 01:05:28.660
Isn't that the same argument
you're making here.

01:05:28.660 --> 01:05:29.737
Yes, sir.

01:05:29.737 --> 01:05:32.420
It is.

01:05:32.420 --> 01:05:35.400
I think what the Attorney
General did was immoral.

01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:39.370
In the way this case was
prosecuted, I think that the

01:05:39.370 --> 01:05:44.960
argument they made was immoral,
that children from

01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:46.250
mixed marriages suffer.

01:05:46.250 --> 01:05:49.630
Because they knew the whole
purpose of the statue was to

01:05:49.630 --> 01:05:52.850
preserve racial integrity.

01:05:52.850 --> 01:05:53.960
And [? Mr. McElwain ?]

01:05:53.960 --> 01:05:57.380
had an alternative to say,
I can't argue this case.

01:05:57.380 --> 01:06:02.800
I believe it is improper,
immoral, not accurate.

01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:06.350
He presented a false argument
to the United States Supreme

01:06:06.350 --> 01:06:10.780
Court of this is really to
preserve the rights of some

01:06:10.780 --> 01:06:13.760
young children, knowing
that is not what

01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:15.010
this statute was about.

01:06:18.890 --> 01:06:21.390
Mr. Cohen.

01:06:21.390 --> 01:06:25.740
That is the right of Richard and
Mildred Loving to wake up

01:06:25.740 --> 01:06:28.870
in the morning or to go to sleep
at night knowing that

01:06:28.870 --> 01:06:31.130
the sheriff will not be knocking
on their door or

01:06:31.130 --> 01:06:34.290
shining a light in their face
in the privacy of their

01:06:34.290 --> 01:06:37.345
bedroom for illicit
cohabitation.

01:06:39.990 --> 01:06:42.670
The Lovings have the right to
go to sleep at night knowing

01:06:42.670 --> 01:06:46.320
that, should they not awake in
the morning, their children

01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:49.810
would have the right to inherit
them under intestacy.

01:06:49.810 --> 01:06:53.360
They have the right to be secure
in knowing that if they

01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:56.550
go to sleep and do not wake in
the morning that one of them,

01:06:56.550 --> 01:06:58.000
a survivor of them,
has the right to

01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:59.990
social security benefits.

01:06:59.990 --> 01:07:02.044
All of these are
denied to them.

01:07:10.110 --> 01:07:12.970
No one can articulate it better
than Richard Loving

01:07:12.970 --> 01:07:18.080
when he said to me, Mr. Cohen,
tell the court I love my wife.

01:07:18.080 --> 01:07:20.901
And it is just unfair
that I can't

01:07:20.901 --> 01:07:22.560
live with her in Virginia.

01:07:28.260 --> 01:07:32.900
My recollection of that
day is twofold.

01:07:32.900 --> 01:07:37.320
It's standing up and looking
at Chief Justice Warren and

01:07:37.320 --> 01:07:40.820
Justice Black and Justice Harlan
and Justice Douglas and

01:07:40.820 --> 01:07:42.600
the other justices.

01:07:42.600 --> 01:07:47.380
And I thought I saw
the face of God.

01:07:47.380 --> 01:07:52.010
You know, in a legal career 45
years, it's the height of the

01:07:52.010 --> 01:07:55.140
career to stand before these
people who are giants.

01:07:55.140 --> 01:07:58.180
And they change our society
enormously.

01:07:58.180 --> 01:08:03.120
And then afterwards a hug from
my father on the steps of the

01:08:03.120 --> 01:08:05.270
Supreme Court.

01:08:05.270 --> 01:08:07.160
We certainly invited
the Lovings to

01:08:07.160 --> 01:08:10.050
come to hear the argument.

01:08:10.050 --> 01:08:13.850
She would not go alone, and
Richard wasn't going to go

01:08:13.850 --> 01:08:16.180
under any circumstance.

01:08:16.180 --> 01:08:20.470
When Richard turned us down, I
asked him if it was anything

01:08:20.470 --> 01:08:22.890
he wanted me to say
to the court.

01:08:22.890 --> 01:08:26.320
And he paused for a moment and
said, just tell the court I

01:08:26.320 --> 01:08:27.570
love my wife.

01:08:35.586 --> 01:08:37.869
They told us we could come to
the Supreme Court if we wanted

01:08:37.869 --> 01:08:40.044
to but said if I went
on the stand.

01:08:40.044 --> 01:08:42.584
It's just up to us if
we wanted to come.

01:08:42.584 --> 01:08:44.750
So we didn't even go.

01:08:44.750 --> 01:08:47.040
I didn't want to go.

01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:48.290
I'm nervous enough for now.

01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:53.690
Someone burnt a cross at
my mother's house.

01:08:53.690 --> 01:08:57.000
I don't know if that was to do
with us or what happened.

01:08:57.000 --> 01:09:00.226
It was just a prank, I guess.

01:09:00.226 --> 01:09:04.210
Do you think that this brings
you closer together?

01:09:04.210 --> 01:09:04.708
Yes.

01:09:04.708 --> 01:09:08.194
I do, I think.

01:09:08.194 --> 01:09:09.444
I guess.

01:09:12.676 --> 01:09:13.672
And you?

01:09:13.672 --> 01:09:14.170
Yeah.

01:09:14.170 --> 01:09:15.420
I think so.

01:09:25.126 --> 01:09:26.376
[MUSIC - "LORD, I'M IN YOUR
CARE" BY THE CARTER FAMILY]

01:09:34.369 --> 01:09:39.850
The Supreme Court decision would
take anywhere from 60 to

01:09:39.850 --> 01:09:46.240
90 to 120 days.

01:09:46.240 --> 01:09:50.620
We purposely tried to keep the
coverage of the case very low.

01:09:50.620 --> 01:09:53.530
The Lovings did not
want publicity.

01:09:53.530 --> 01:09:56.810
They were living back in
Virginia, but they felt there

01:09:56.810 --> 01:09:59.650
might be some danger because
there's a lot of strong

01:09:59.650 --> 01:10:01.165
emotion about mixed marriages.

01:10:15.220 --> 01:10:19.250
I got a call that ruling
would be the next day.

01:10:36.370 --> 01:10:39.310
Chet Huntley, NBC
News, New York.

01:10:39.310 --> 01:10:42.400
And David Brinkley, NBC
News, Washington.

01:10:42.400 --> 01:10:45.560
The Supreme Court held today
that marriages of whites and

01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:49.140
Negroes are illegal and that
no state may stop them.

01:10:49.140 --> 01:10:51.380
The decision was unanimous,
and Chief Justice

01:10:51.380 --> 01:10:52.910
Warren wrote it.

01:10:52.910 --> 01:10:55.680
The case was brought by a white
man from Virginia, a

01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:59.260
construction worker, and his
wife, who is part Negro and

01:10:59.260 --> 01:11:00.670
part Indian.

01:11:00.670 --> 01:11:01.650
At issue was an

01:11:01.650 --> 01:11:04.230
anti-miscegenation law in Virginia.

01:11:04.230 --> 01:11:08.140
At one time 41 states forbade
interracial marriage.

01:11:08.140 --> 01:11:11.700
In more recent years all but 16
have repealed these laws.

01:11:11.700 --> 01:11:14.130
Now they will all have to go.

01:11:14.130 --> 01:11:15.360
Chet.

01:11:15.360 --> 01:11:17.010
Prime Minister--

01:11:17.010 --> 01:11:18.450
We were elated.

01:11:18.450 --> 01:11:19.550
We jumped up and down.

01:11:19.550 --> 01:11:23.210
We hugged each other and hugged
everybody in sight.

01:11:23.210 --> 01:11:26.800
And we had to let the
Lovings know.

01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:29.625
I recall they got on
the phone with us.

01:11:29.625 --> 01:11:34.230
And we congratulated them,
and they said thank you.

01:11:34.230 --> 01:11:35.480
[MUSIC - "SLOW TRAIN" BY
THE STAPLE SINGERS]

01:12:16.772 --> 01:17:19.587
[CHATTERING]