WEBVTT

00:00:01.233 --> 00:00:03.233
Last year we followed

00:00:03.234 --> 00:00:05.200
Hungarian film director
Arpád Bogdán

00:00:05.234 --> 00:00:08.634
as he tried to come to terms
with his Gypsy past.

00:00:08.667 --> 00:00:10.934
Since then, the plight
of Hungary\'s Roma

00:00:10.968 --> 00:00:13.234
has taken a sinister turn
for the worse,

00:00:13.267 --> 00:00:17.801
as Arpád now discovers
for himself.

00:00:17.834 --> 00:00:20.801
[dramatic music]

00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.534
He\'d been brought up
in state orphanages.

00:01:09.567 --> 00:01:10.801
[Bodgán speaking Hungarian]

00:01:10.834 --> 00:01:12.701
male translator:
You come out of state care,

00:01:12.734 --> 00:01:14.100
and even if you know
you\'re a Gypsy,

00:01:14.133 --> 00:01:15.834
you can\'t really relate to that

00:01:15.868 --> 00:01:19.000
because you don\'t understand
the cultural heritage,

00:01:19.033 --> 00:01:20.601
you don\'t speak the language,

00:01:20.634 --> 00:01:24.901
and you don\'t share
the same values as the Roma.

00:01:24.934 --> 00:01:27.067
Bradshaw: As we filmed,
Arpád learned

00:01:27.100 --> 00:01:30.400
his mother had died.

00:01:30.434 --> 00:01:32.734
He did find his father.

00:01:35.100 --> 00:01:41.934
- Whether I\'ll ever want to see
my father again...

00:01:41.968 --> 00:01:47.801
well...

00:01:47.834 --> 00:01:48.968
maybe I will.

00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.300
[dog barks]

00:01:50.334 --> 00:01:52.501
Bradshaw: But since then,
Arpád decided

00:01:52.534 --> 00:01:55.467
not to stay in touch.

00:01:57.868 --> 00:02:01.300
He\'s spent the last few months
learning English abroad.

00:02:03.334 --> 00:02:06.267
This summer, Arpád flew
back home to Hungary

00:02:06.300 --> 00:02:10.400
to find the Roma
had become headline news.

00:02:10.434 --> 00:02:12.968
In a country hard-hit
by the global recession,

00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:14.868
the extreme right
has gained ground

00:02:14.901 --> 00:02:17.534
partly by targeting the Roma.

00:02:17.567 --> 00:02:19.901
They call Gypsies
welfare dependents

00:02:19.934 --> 00:02:23.133
and petty criminals.

00:02:23.167 --> 00:02:26.067
Many agree.

00:02:26.100 --> 00:02:30.234
Then in 2008, the start
of a series of vicious attacks

00:02:30.267 --> 00:02:31.501
shocks Hungary.

00:02:31.534 --> 00:02:34.734
The only thing linking
the victims is their race.

00:02:34.767 --> 00:02:36.968
15 Gypsy houses are attacked,

00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:40.601
always at night,
all at the edge of villages,

00:02:40.634 --> 00:02:43.400
five people killed,
including a woman

00:02:43.434 --> 00:02:46.000
and a four-year-old child.

00:02:49.968 --> 00:02:54.133
- All this is happening
in a terrible social climate.

00:02:54.167 --> 00:02:59.667
And it\'s in society
we have to look for the answers.

00:03:03.067 --> 00:03:04.467
Bradshaw: In a Budapest pub,

00:03:04.501 --> 00:03:08.434
Arpád is trying to find
some answers with his friends.

00:03:10.100 --> 00:03:11.267
- Many things come to mind:

00:03:11.300 --> 00:03:13.601
a foreign secret service,
the extreme right,

00:03:13.634 --> 00:03:14.968
the political left,

00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.667
or it could just be a crazy
individual with a grudge.

00:03:19.701 --> 00:03:23.033
- The prejudice people have
that many Roma are criminals

00:03:23.067 --> 00:03:25.701
must have led some
to the misguided conclusion

00:03:25.734 --> 00:03:30.100
that they can restore order
this way.

00:03:30.133 --> 00:03:32.701
- It would be horrible enough
if someone thought

00:03:32.734 --> 00:03:35.133
that he could identify Roma
who are criminals

00:03:35.167 --> 00:03:36.667
and kill them,

00:03:36.701 --> 00:03:39.200
but there\'s no logic
in trying to restore order

00:03:39.234 --> 00:03:40.667
by killing a child.

00:03:40.701 --> 00:03:43.567
That doesn\'t make
any sense at all.

00:03:43.601 --> 00:03:46.334
- Gypsies are rats to them,
just rats.

00:03:46.367 --> 00:03:49.300
That\'s why our women and
children can be slaughtered:

00:03:49.334 --> 00:03:51.834
because we\'re nobodies.

00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:54.968
Bradshaw: A few days later,
in August,

00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:58.801
another attack.

00:03:58.834 --> 00:04:01.167
- I heard that people
who condemn these attacks

00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:02.567
are invited to the funeral

00:04:02.601 --> 00:04:05.200
to express their sympathy
to the family.

00:04:05.234 --> 00:04:08.501
I think
I have to be there too.

00:04:08.534 --> 00:04:12.767
[men and women singing
in Hungarian]

00:04:12.801 --> 00:04:15.000
Bradshaw: The killers
have become more confident.

00:04:15.033 --> 00:04:18.767
This time, for the first time,
they entered the Gypsies\' house.

00:04:18.801 --> 00:04:21.901
They shot a single mother
and her 13-year-old daughter

00:04:21.934 --> 00:04:23.501
in their sleep.

00:04:23.534 --> 00:04:24.934
As her mother is buried,

00:04:24.968 --> 00:04:28.567
the girl is fighting
for her life in hospital.

00:04:28.601 --> 00:04:33.300
For her grandmother,
the pain\'s too much to take.

00:04:33.334 --> 00:04:34.734
After the funeral,

00:04:34.767 --> 00:04:37.901
Arpád is invited to the wake
at the crime scene.

00:04:37.934 --> 00:04:40.868
Most relatives are afraid
to be seen on camera,

00:04:40.901 --> 00:04:42.167
but there\'s one exception:

00:04:42.200 --> 00:04:45.334
the victim\'s niece, Virág.

00:04:45.367 --> 00:04:46.601
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:04:46.634 --> 00:04:48.734
female translator: She was
a kind, cheerful person.

00:04:48.767 --> 00:04:50.734
We spoke every day.

00:04:50.767 --> 00:04:52.467
She always asked how I was,

00:04:52.501 --> 00:04:55.300
though mostly, she could tell
just by looking at me.

00:04:55.334 --> 00:04:58.467
We were so close.

00:04:58.501 --> 00:05:01.634
- And the little girl-
is she getting better?

00:05:01.667 --> 00:05:03.100
- She can still barely speak,

00:05:03.133 --> 00:05:06.367
but she still keeps asking
about her mother.

00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:08.367
Her mother meant
everything to her.

00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:10.968
She was her best friend too.

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.767
People are saying how
professional these killers are,

00:05:14.801 --> 00:05:16.634
and that really upsets me.

00:05:16.667 --> 00:05:18.701
I don\'t think we can call people
professional

00:05:18.734 --> 00:05:24.367
who attack two innocent,
vulnerable women.

00:05:24.400 --> 00:05:28.367
Bradshaw: After each attack,
Roma leaders visit the families.

00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:30.300
Aladar Horvath suggests

00:05:30.334 --> 00:05:32.300
a particularly sinister
explanation

00:05:32.334 --> 00:05:35.000
for the attacks and murders.

00:05:35.033 --> 00:05:37.400
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:05:37.434 --> 00:05:39.601
male translator: I think
this is a provocation,

00:05:39.634 --> 00:05:42.767
probably to get the Roma
to hit back at the Hungarians,

00:05:42.801 --> 00:05:44.934
to shoot back at them.

00:05:44.968 --> 00:05:47.133
And once that happens,

00:05:47.167 --> 00:05:50.701
all further murders of the Roma
will seem justified.

00:05:50.734 --> 00:05:54.434
And if it comes to
any kind of a Gypsy revolt,

00:05:54.467 --> 00:05:57.200
the state can use
full force to crush it.

00:06:01.267 --> 00:06:02.834
Bradshaw:
Arpád decides to visit

00:06:02.868 --> 00:06:07.000
the family of the first victims
in Nagycsécs.

00:06:07.033 --> 00:06:08.300
As in most attacks,

00:06:08.334 --> 00:06:10.868
Molotov cocktails were thrown
through the window.

00:06:10.901 --> 00:06:15.334
As they ran for safety,
the Gypsies inside were shot.

00:06:15.367 --> 00:06:17.934
The house chosen was always
at the edge of the village,

00:06:17.968 --> 00:06:22.667
easy to attack
and easy to get away.

00:06:23.834 --> 00:06:25.434
- You think they came
from there?

00:06:25.467 --> 00:06:29.501
- Yes, where they came from
and where they went.

00:06:29.534 --> 00:06:31.767
Bradshaw: Tibor lost
both his wife

00:06:31.801 --> 00:06:34.300
and his disabled brother
in the attack.

00:06:34.334 --> 00:06:37.534
Donations enabled him
to rebuild most of the house,

00:06:37.567 --> 00:06:41.968
but the fear would not go away.

00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.000
- I hear they kept on killing
here and there and everywhere.

00:06:45.033 --> 00:06:47.367
I\'m just glad
they haven\'t come back here.

00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:48.868
- At night,
I hear the dog bark.

00:06:48.901 --> 00:06:50.868
I go out, look around:
nothing.

00:06:50.901 --> 00:06:53.267
Half an hour later,
the dog barks again.

00:06:53.300 --> 00:06:55.634
I check again;
can\'t see anyone out there.

00:06:55.667 --> 00:06:57.067
But I\'m not afraid.

00:06:57.100 --> 00:06:59.200
They can come shoot me
if they want.

00:06:59.234 --> 00:07:01.133
Isn\'t it enough
they killed my family?

00:07:01.167 --> 00:07:04.467
They might as well
shoot me too.

00:07:08.400 --> 00:07:11.167
- Having been
to some of the crime scenes,

00:07:11.200 --> 00:07:13.734
it strikes me that
the killers seem to choose

00:07:13.767 --> 00:07:16.267
the poorest,
most vulnerable people,

00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:20.033
the ones least able
to get their voices heard.

00:07:20.067 --> 00:07:21.234
But I know someone

00:07:21.267 --> 00:07:23.667
who has a slightly
different perspective,

00:07:23.701 --> 00:07:26.400
because she is also
a kind of an expert.

00:07:26.434 --> 00:07:27.767
She\'s a sociologist,

00:07:27.801 --> 00:07:31.834
and she lost her uncle
in one of the attacks.

00:07:31.868 --> 00:07:34.868
[woman speaking Hungarian]

00:07:34.901 --> 00:07:37.567
- We have seen
time and time again in Hungary

00:07:37.601 --> 00:07:40.300
that when a Roma person
does something bad,

00:07:40.334 --> 00:07:42.234
it is never just about him.

00:07:42.267 --> 00:07:44.968
It becomes a much bigger story.

00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.167
People generalize,

00:07:47.200 --> 00:07:50.767
and the Roma get
a kind of collective punishment.

00:07:50.801 --> 00:07:52.400
On the other hand,

00:07:52.434 --> 00:07:54.667
solidarity doesn\'t seem to work
as effectively,

00:07:54.701 --> 00:07:56.934
not towards the Roma, anyway,

00:07:56.968 --> 00:07:59.200
not even
when children are killed,

00:07:59.234 --> 00:08:02.934
not even when people
are being gunned down.

00:08:02.968 --> 00:08:07.267
- There should have been
more of a public outcry.

00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:11.901
- Yes, I certainly haven\'t seen
the sort of national outrage

00:08:11.934 --> 00:08:14.200
I would have expected.

00:08:14.234 --> 00:08:18.300
I do have a personal link
to this story

00:08:18.334 --> 00:08:21.400
because...

00:08:25.901 --> 00:08:30.100
Sorry, I can\'t bring myself
to even say it.

00:08:37.801 --> 00:08:38.968
Do you understand?

00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:40.033
- I understand.

00:08:43.234 --> 00:08:44.467
Bradshaw: Next morning,

00:08:44.501 --> 00:08:47.567
Agnes takes Arpád
to the local Gypsy ghetto

00:08:47.601 --> 00:08:49.767
on the edge of town.

00:08:49.801 --> 00:08:55.300
1,500 people live here,
almost all on benefits.

00:08:55.334 --> 00:08:59.734
Very few homes
have running water.

00:08:59.767 --> 00:09:01.834
- There\'s a strong expectation

00:09:01.868 --> 00:09:04.167
that the Roma
should blend into society,

00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:07.501
but you have to take
into account where we come from.

00:09:07.534 --> 00:09:09.200
And for many families,

00:09:09.234 --> 00:09:12.234
a starting point
is an environment like this.

00:09:12.267 --> 00:09:14.267
There can be no entrepreneurs,

00:09:14.300 --> 00:09:18.234
no intelligentsia
coming from a place like this.

00:09:18.267 --> 00:09:20.167
It\'s very tough.

00:09:22.534 --> 00:09:25.434
Bradshaw: It seems
everyone here has a problem.

00:09:25.467 --> 00:09:26.801
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:09:26.834 --> 00:09:28.200
female translator:
Look here.

00:09:28.234 --> 00:09:31.033
Look here;
I got a letter about my house,

00:09:31.067 --> 00:09:33.801
but I can\'t read or write.

00:09:33.834 --> 00:09:36.634
Can you help me?

00:09:36.667 --> 00:09:38.467
- This is from a bank.

00:09:38.501 --> 00:09:40.634
Your house has been mortgaged.

00:09:40.667 --> 00:09:44.100
- Yes, but if I start losing
my little pension,

00:09:44.133 --> 00:09:45.634
what will I eat?

00:09:45.667 --> 00:09:48.667
What will become of me?

00:09:48.701 --> 00:09:51.000
This is my house right here.

00:09:51.033 --> 00:09:52.968
You can come in,
if you want.

00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:54.501
Come in. Come in.

00:09:57.167 --> 00:09:59.767
Come this way.

00:10:04.400 --> 00:10:08.334
Bradshaw: The murders are
on everyone\'s mind.

00:10:08.367 --> 00:10:10.901
- Gypsies are being slaughtered.

00:10:10.934 --> 00:10:13.167
I can\'t understand why.

00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.834
Why can\'t people see
that we\'re just like them?

00:10:16.868 --> 00:10:17.968
We\'re not animals.

00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.267
Why do they have to do this?

00:10:20.300 --> 00:10:22.267
I\'m so afraid.

00:10:22.300 --> 00:10:24.868
Get out. Get out.

00:10:26.734 --> 00:10:29.033
There are those who steal;
that\'s true.

00:10:29.067 --> 00:10:31.100
I understand
if they\'re punished,

00:10:31.133 --> 00:10:33.868
but only by the courts
or the police.

00:10:33.901 --> 00:10:37.434
Take that cat out of here
this instant!

00:10:37.467 --> 00:10:40.100
I remember when I was little.

00:10:40.133 --> 00:10:41.834
They came
and gathered the Jews.

00:10:41.868 --> 00:10:43.934
They were taken and burned.

00:10:43.968 --> 00:10:46.868
That\'s what some people
want to do to the Gypsies.

00:10:46.901 --> 00:10:49.067
I just wish they\'d
get it over with already.

00:10:49.100 --> 00:10:51.400
What is our life worth,
anyway?

00:10:51.434 --> 00:10:53.734
They\'ll come and kill us
sooner or later.

00:10:59.167 --> 00:11:02.868
Bradshaw: Agnes\' friend Janos
is a Gypsy teacher.

00:11:02.901 --> 00:11:04.334
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:11:04.367 --> 00:11:06.601
male translator: Fixing
the houses wouldn\'t be enough.

00:11:06.634 --> 00:11:09.400
It\'s about employment,
education, and health care too.

00:11:09.434 --> 00:11:11.501
They would have to be
moved away from here,

00:11:11.534 --> 00:11:14.033
because physical integration
is the only way

00:11:14.067 --> 00:11:17.367
to get them
out of these circumstances.

00:11:17.400 --> 00:11:20.467
What\'s missing is the money
and the social will.

00:11:20.501 --> 00:11:23.701
If these 1,500 people
were moved into the town,

00:11:23.734 --> 00:11:26.100
there\'d be huge outcry.

00:11:26.133 --> 00:11:28.567
And once there\'s a ghetto,
it\'s no surprise

00:11:28.601 --> 00:11:31.400
that people start behaving
like people in ghettos do,

00:11:31.434 --> 00:11:35.300
and crime is a part of that,
no doubt.

00:11:37.501 --> 00:11:39.534
Bradshaw: To find out
what the government is doing,

00:11:39.567 --> 00:11:44.000
Arpád visits the official
in charge of Roma issues.

00:11:44.033 --> 00:11:45.167
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.300
male translator:
There are 650 Gypsy ghettoes

00:11:47.334 --> 00:11:52.033
in Hungary today
with 130,000 inhabitants.

00:11:52.067 --> 00:11:53.501
And for a long time,

00:11:53.534 --> 00:11:56.467
nobody realized that
it\'s impossible to go to school

00:11:56.501 --> 00:11:58.701
or kindergarten
from these places.

00:11:58.734 --> 00:12:00.467
It\'s impossible to get work.

00:12:00.501 --> 00:12:04.667
- Since you\'ve been in this job,

00:12:04.701 --> 00:12:07.100
what successes have you had?

00:12:07.133 --> 00:12:11.501
- Looking at
the situation today,

00:12:11.534 --> 00:12:13.667
I don\'t think
any politician can say

00:12:13.701 --> 00:12:16.100
that they\'ve achieved
great things.

00:12:16.133 --> 00:12:18.534
This might sound harsh,

00:12:18.567 --> 00:12:20.701
but I think
the Roma in this country

00:12:20.734 --> 00:12:23.667
still haven\'t had
any kind of a new deal.

00:12:26.133 --> 00:12:30.100
It\'s the responsibility
of society.

00:12:30.133 --> 00:12:32.367
It\'s not about politicians.

00:12:32.400 --> 00:12:35.667
Politics would change
if society did.

00:12:35.701 --> 00:12:39.200
It\'s just that people
would have to understand

00:12:39.234 --> 00:12:41.400
that the Roma are citizens

00:12:41.434 --> 00:12:45.234
just like anybody else.

00:12:45.267 --> 00:12:47.667
[applause]

00:12:47.701 --> 00:12:49.968
Bradshaw: But society
is not changing.

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.300
At an antiracist rally
in Budapest,

00:12:52.334 --> 00:12:54.968
turnout is
disappointingly low.

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:58.367
- We must raise our voices
in opposition

00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:03.934
to racism, sexism, xenophobia,
homophobia, and Romaphobia.

00:13:03.968 --> 00:13:07.367
[cheers and applause]

00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:10.300
Bradshaw: As tensions rise
and accusations fly,

00:13:10.334 --> 00:13:12.901
the Roma claim
they\'re not only being murdered,

00:13:12.934 --> 00:13:15.534
but they\'re also being framed.

00:13:15.567 --> 00:13:16.601
[man speaking Hungarian]

00:13:16.634 --> 00:13:18.300
male translator:
Ladies and gentlemen,

00:13:18.334 --> 00:13:21.434
and now Erno Setét will perform
a traditional Gypsy dance.

00:13:21.467 --> 00:13:26.434
- [beat boxing]

00:13:26.467 --> 00:13:29.434
[chanting in Romany]

00:13:35.015 --> 00:13:38.095
Bradshaw: Arpád\'s
Gypsy musician friend Erno Setét

00:13:38.160 --> 00:13:40.260
was jailed for 17 months
for a robbery,

00:13:40.300 --> 00:13:43.300
even though
he had solid alibis.

00:13:43.475 --> 00:13:46.075
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:13:46.209 --> 00:13:48.009
male translator:
I had 40 witnesses

00:13:48.234 --> 00:13:50.567
and a video recording proving
that I was playing a concert

00:13:50.601 --> 00:13:53.300
300 kilometers
away from the crime scene,

00:13:53.334 --> 00:13:55.868
but neither the judge
nor the police believed it.

00:13:55.901 --> 00:13:58.234
The judge said,
\"In your community,

00:13:58.267 --> 00:14:00.167
\"it is a given
that you will find people

00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.667
to say anything
you want them to.\"

00:14:02.701 --> 00:14:05.968
Bradshaw: Erno was eventually
cleared on appeal.

00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.267
During his time in jail,
he lost his job,

00:14:08.300 --> 00:14:09.400
and his wife left him,

00:14:09.434 --> 00:14:11.200
taking
their two-year-old daughter.

00:14:11.234 --> 00:14:13.834
Erno is convinced
he was framed by the police

00:14:13.868 --> 00:14:15.334
simply for being Roma.

00:14:15.367 --> 00:14:17.267
And he\'s not the only one
who feels

00:14:17.300 --> 00:14:22.267
that the Roma are blamed
for crimes they didn\'t commit.

00:14:22.300 --> 00:14:27.367
- There\'s a case where
the community of a small town

00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:29.534
accused three Roma boys

00:14:29.567 --> 00:14:32.801
with the rape and murder
of a young girl.

00:14:32.834 --> 00:14:34.667
Everyone felt so strongly,

00:14:34.701 --> 00:14:37.434
they even organized
a demonstration

00:14:37.467 --> 00:14:41.767
that extreme right-wing groups
also took part in.

00:14:41.801 --> 00:14:44.300
5,000 people were there.

00:14:44.334 --> 00:14:46.801
And the mayor
made a speech to say,

00:14:46.834 --> 00:14:49.968
\"Enough of Gypsy violence.\"

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.300
The boys were later cleared,

00:14:52.334 --> 00:14:57.100
and the perpetrator proved to be
a white Hungarian.

00:14:57.133 --> 00:15:01.501
I want to see how the three boys
felt about all this.

00:15:01.534 --> 00:15:02.834
Bradshaw:
The boys volunteered

00:15:02.868 --> 00:15:05.934
for any testing
necessary to clear their names,

00:15:05.968 --> 00:15:09.734
but many here in Kiskunlacháza
still doubt their innocence

00:15:09.767 --> 00:15:11.701
in the face of DNA evidence

00:15:11.734 --> 00:15:15.200
and a confession
by a man now under arrest.

00:15:15.234 --> 00:15:18.634
- They treated us badly,

00:15:18.667 --> 00:15:22.434
not like a normal
police interrogation but like-

00:15:22.467 --> 00:15:23.667
- \"You bloody Gypsy,

00:15:23.701 --> 00:15:29.133
what were you wearing
when you killed her?\"

00:15:29.167 --> 00:15:31.167
- We felt pretty bad
to be accused of such a thing

00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.234
when we barely even steal
as it is.

00:15:33.267 --> 00:15:35.534
- The police
only changed their tune

00:15:35.567 --> 00:15:38.133
when they saw
the lie detector test results.

00:15:38.167 --> 00:15:39.667
We all passed.

00:15:41.634 --> 00:15:43.601
Bradshaw: Around town,
Arpád finds

00:15:43.634 --> 00:15:45.634
that resentment
against the Roma here

00:15:45.667 --> 00:15:48.634
is stronger than anything
he\'s ever experienced.

00:15:48.667 --> 00:15:51.234
Few people would speak
on camera,

00:15:51.267 --> 00:15:54.234
but almost everyone tells
a similar tale:

00:15:54.267 --> 00:15:56.868
the Roma, and the three boys
in particular,

00:15:56.901 --> 00:16:01.834
simply don\'t have
a good reputation.

00:16:01.868 --> 00:16:04.467
- These boys are the black sheep
of the community,

00:16:04.501 --> 00:16:06.334
it is safe to say.

00:16:06.367 --> 00:16:08.534
- The Roma break into houses.

00:16:08.567 --> 00:16:10.100
They attack people
on the street,

00:16:10.133 --> 00:16:13.000
and they snatch handbags.

00:16:13.033 --> 00:16:15.367
- I heard something
about another little girl.

00:16:15.400 --> 00:16:17.067
[woman speaking Hungarian]

00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:19.968
female translator: Yes,
that was my godson\'s daughter.

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.634
She was robbed while
she was walking home from school

00:16:22.667 --> 00:16:24.934
by eight boys.

00:16:27.234 --> 00:16:29.434
- Who were these boys?

00:16:29.467 --> 00:16:33.601
- Gypsies, I\'m afraid.

00:16:33.634 --> 00:16:37.634
- There are
a few Roma families here

00:16:37.667 --> 00:16:39.300
who do cheat, steal, and rob.

00:16:39.334 --> 00:16:40.767
But hold on a second.

00:16:40.801 --> 00:16:44.567
There is no reason
to generalize.

00:16:44.601 --> 00:16:49.133
The anti-Gypsy sentiment
in this town is outrageous.

00:16:49.167 --> 00:16:51.167
Good-bye.

00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:01.767
- I came here because
I thought I could prove

00:17:01.801 --> 00:17:04.534
how unfounded
the anti-Gypsy prejudice

00:17:04.567 --> 00:17:08.200
in these small communities
can be.

00:17:08.234 --> 00:17:11.167
But having spoken
to lots of people-

00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.133
Hungarians and Gypsies-

00:17:14.167 --> 00:17:16.534
I had to realize
that around here,

00:17:16.567 --> 00:17:19.667
the prejudice is based
on daily experience

00:17:19.701 --> 00:17:23.200
that is very real.

00:17:23.234 --> 00:17:24.801
And if that\'s the case,

00:17:24.834 --> 00:17:28.033
it\'s hard to expect people
to start being more positive,

00:17:28.067 --> 00:17:31.834
to change their attitude
towards this ethnic group.

00:17:31.868 --> 00:17:35.667
I don\'t really know
what can be done about this.

00:17:35.701 --> 00:17:37.801
I will have to ask someone

00:17:37.834 --> 00:17:41.300
who\'s been dealing with
this subject for much longer.

00:17:46.834 --> 00:17:48.234
Bradshaw:
András Biró

00:17:48.267 --> 00:17:51.000
is a well-known
human rights campaigner.

00:17:51.033 --> 00:17:53.634
Last year, he warned
the bad feeling against Gypsies

00:17:53.667 --> 00:17:56.701
could lead to murders.

00:17:56.734 --> 00:17:57.734
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:17:57.767 --> 00:17:59.434
male translator:
These people have been

00:17:59.467 --> 00:18:02.200
on the margins of society
for a very long time,

00:18:02.234 --> 00:18:03.667
and that often brings about

00:18:03.701 --> 00:18:06.601
an element of criminality,
unfortunately.

00:18:06.634 --> 00:18:08.934
And there is
an automatic reaction to that,

00:18:08.968 --> 00:18:10.801
not only by the population

00:18:10.834 --> 00:18:13.434
but also by members
of the police.

00:18:13.467 --> 00:18:17.767
Polls show that 85%
of Hungarian society

00:18:17.801 --> 00:18:20.067
feels negatively
about the Roma.

00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:22.167
This is a frightening figure.

00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.734
But the incredible increase
in recent times

00:18:24.767 --> 00:18:28.000
is based on a lot of people
having personal experience

00:18:28.033 --> 00:18:30.367
of getting their crops,
cell phones,

00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.100
or Adidas shoes
stolen by Gypsies.

00:18:33.133 --> 00:18:37.334
And they say, \"Hold on a second;
this isn\'t right.

00:18:37.367 --> 00:18:41.100
This shouldn\'t be allowed
to happen.\"

00:18:41.133 --> 00:18:43.601
And eventually, this builds up
to a feeling that,

00:18:43.634 --> 00:18:47.133
\"Something has to be done
about this.

00:18:47.167 --> 00:18:51.801
Something has to be done
about \'these people.\'\"

00:18:51.834 --> 00:18:53.133
- I read the interview

00:18:53.167 --> 00:18:55.701
in which you predicted
months before the first attack

00:18:55.734 --> 00:18:57.634
that there would be killings.

00:18:57.667 --> 00:18:59.434
How did you know?

00:19:01.067 --> 00:19:03.534
- I\'m not at all proud
of my prediction.

00:19:03.567 --> 00:19:05.934
I wish I\'d been wrong.

00:19:05.968 --> 00:19:10.234
Some pathological individuals
see this as a solution,

00:19:10.267 --> 00:19:13.234
just like the Ku Klux Klan
used to.

00:19:13.267 --> 00:19:14.801
- Pathological?

00:19:14.834 --> 00:19:17.868
- Yes, yes,
I\'m convinced of that.

00:19:17.901 --> 00:19:19.434
Someone who kills people

00:19:19.467 --> 00:19:21.367
because of the color
of their skin

00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:23.300
cannot be sane.

00:19:23.334 --> 00:19:25.200
But it was fairly clear to me

00:19:25.234 --> 00:19:27.734
that it could come
to something like this.

00:19:27.767 --> 00:19:31.334
And I\'m afraid to say it,
but I think it could get worse.

00:19:31.367 --> 00:19:32.400
- Worse how?

00:19:32.434 --> 00:19:33.934
- Pogroms.
- What?

00:19:33.968 --> 00:19:35.901
- Pogroms.

00:19:35.934 --> 00:19:39.367
More than one person
will be killed at a time,

00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:42.501
and eventually,
the Roma will lose their cool.

00:19:42.534 --> 00:19:43.834
They will strike back,

00:19:43.868 --> 00:19:49.701
and then this give-and-take
will never end.

00:19:49.734 --> 00:19:51.567
- Is there a way out
anywhere?

00:19:51.601 --> 00:19:56.434
- Bridges have to be built
quickly and locally.

00:19:56.467 --> 00:20:00.234
We shouldn\'t look for politics
with a capital P in this.

00:20:00.267 --> 00:20:03.334
They should be
small-scale local projects

00:20:03.367 --> 00:20:05.567
to provide people
with something to do,

00:20:05.601 --> 00:20:09.467
some source of income,
employment.

00:20:13.734 --> 00:20:15.901
Bradshaw: One such small
local project is a co-op

00:20:15.934 --> 00:20:20.534
set up by a private charity
in the village of Igrici.

00:20:20.567 --> 00:20:21.934
The Roma here were asked

00:20:21.968 --> 00:20:24.234
what they thought
would help them make a living.

00:20:24.267 --> 00:20:26.734
They decided they wanted
to live off the land

00:20:26.767 --> 00:20:30.067
and grow cucumbers.

00:20:30.100 --> 00:20:32.801
- What did people around here
live on before?

00:20:32.834 --> 00:20:34.000
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:20:34.033 --> 00:20:36.000
female translator:
Benefits, dear, benefits,

00:20:36.033 --> 00:20:37.467
and loans.

00:20:37.501 --> 00:20:40.667
They went to local money lenders
at huge interest rates.

00:20:40.701 --> 00:20:42.267
That\'s how people got by.

00:20:42.300 --> 00:20:43.934
There was absolutely
no opportunities

00:20:43.968 --> 00:20:47.033
for work around here.

00:20:47.067 --> 00:20:48.133
- Some of the people here

00:20:48.167 --> 00:20:49.701
have been out of employment
for years.

00:20:49.734 --> 00:20:52.367
You can\'t expect them to be able
to handle this workload

00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.968
all of a sudden.

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.501
- There aren\'t enough workers.

00:20:56.534 --> 00:20:57.934
That\'s the problem.

00:20:57.968 --> 00:21:00.634
- Why? Aren\'t there enough
unemployed around here?

00:21:00.667 --> 00:21:03.434
- There might be, but many
don\'t come here to work.

00:21:03.467 --> 00:21:04.801
- Why not?

00:21:04.834 --> 00:21:08.133
- Because we have to work
14 to 16 hours a day.

00:21:08.167 --> 00:21:11.601
- And still Hungarian people say
that the Gypsies can\'t work.

00:21:11.634 --> 00:21:13.067
- Of course we can work.

00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:15.367
It\'s the Hungarians who come
and say, \"No, thank you.\"

00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:20.033
- Not the Roma women,
the Hungarians.

00:21:20.067 --> 00:21:21.601
- The people here
are living proof

00:21:21.634 --> 00:21:22.868
that these stereotypes

00:21:22.901 --> 00:21:24.934
about the Roma
not wanting to work

00:21:24.968 --> 00:21:29.334
and wanting to live on the dole
are false.

00:21:29.367 --> 00:21:32.567
Here they are,
and here is this project.

00:21:32.601 --> 00:21:35.334
And beyond giving the Roma
employment,

00:21:35.367 --> 00:21:37.467
it gives them self-respect,

00:21:37.501 --> 00:21:41.000
and it gives their children
a future.

00:21:41.033 --> 00:21:45.467
I think this is
a really good thing.

00:21:45.501 --> 00:21:47.801
Great.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.534
Why isn\'t this happening
all over the country?

00:22:00.033 --> 00:22:03.801
Hello, where can I put
all the cucumber?

00:22:05.167 --> 00:22:06.634
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:22:06.667 --> 00:22:08.534
Bradshaw:
Then breaking news.

00:22:08.567 --> 00:22:11.734
After a concerted effort
by 100 police investigators,

00:22:11.767 --> 00:22:13.367
four people have been charged

00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.934
with a whole series
of racist attacks.

00:22:16.968 --> 00:22:18.767
The men work as bouncers

00:22:18.801 --> 00:22:21.033
in two bars
in the town of Debrecen.

00:22:21.067 --> 00:22:22.334
One is a former soldier

00:22:22.367 --> 00:22:25.367
who used to serve
with NATO troops in Kosovo.

00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:27.868
They\'re known
to have racist views.

00:22:27.901 --> 00:22:29.734
One of them had even written
on the internet

00:22:29.767 --> 00:22:31.968
about wanting to kill Gypsies-

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.100
men, women, and children.

00:22:37.634 --> 00:22:41.100
In a Budapest café,
Arpád catches up with Virág,

00:22:41.133 --> 00:22:44.267
the niece
of the most recent victim.

00:22:44.300 --> 00:22:48.367
It\'s been three weeks since
they met at her aunt\'s funeral.

00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.067
Virág has come to the capital
looking for work.

00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:52.467
- [speaking Hungarian]

00:22:52.501 --> 00:22:55.033
Bradshaw: She tells Arpád
the Roma back in her village

00:22:55.067 --> 00:22:59.467
are far from reassured
by the arrests.

00:23:03.434 --> 00:23:05.133
- For a moment,
I did feel relieved,

00:23:05.167 --> 00:23:08.267
but deep down, nothing
really changed inside me.

00:23:08.300 --> 00:23:10.834
I think everyone else
in the village feels the same.

00:23:10.868 --> 00:23:13.300
The situation is
the same as before.

00:23:13.334 --> 00:23:15.634
The Roma men still patrol
the streets at night.

00:23:15.667 --> 00:23:17.234
People are still afraid.

00:23:19.100 --> 00:23:23.033
- I expected something
much more complex as well:

00:23:23.067 --> 00:23:25.367
a political conspiracy,

00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:29.167
maybe economic interests.

00:23:30.467 --> 00:23:32.701
This seems too simple.

00:23:32.734 --> 00:23:34.534
- That\'s it.

00:23:34.567 --> 00:23:37.801
- But sometimes
things are incredibly simple.

00:23:37.834 --> 00:23:41.000
- Well, what would you do
to reassure the Roma?

00:23:41.033 --> 00:23:44.634
- What would reassure me-

00:23:44.667 --> 00:23:47.100
and, I think, the Roma too-

00:23:47.133 --> 00:23:50.701
is if they started getting
real opportunities

00:23:50.734 --> 00:23:53.667
in the society where they live,

00:23:53.701 --> 00:23:55.234
if they weren\'t living

00:23:55.267 --> 00:23:58.133
at the edge of towns
and villages anymore

00:23:58.167 --> 00:24:01.934
or even further out
than that,

00:24:01.968 --> 00:24:03.767
if I didn\'t see
young generations

00:24:03.801 --> 00:24:07.734
getting lost
in an indifferent void.

00:24:07.767 --> 00:24:12.734
As long as these basic
social problems are not fixed,

00:24:12.767 --> 00:24:16.667
we can\'t rest assured.

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.234
- Do you think that maybe
it\'s also your responsibility

00:24:22.267 --> 00:24:25.534
to help the Roma cause?

00:24:25.567 --> 00:24:31.734
- Well, put it like that:
no, I don\'t think so.

00:24:31.767 --> 00:24:36.567
These issues, these problems,
appear in my work anyway.

00:24:36.601 --> 00:24:38.567
I don\'t see myself

00:24:38.601 --> 00:24:41.734
as a civil rights activist
or anything.

00:24:41.767 --> 00:24:42.968
I don\'t think it\'s something

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.701
I have to bang on about
all the time.

00:24:45.734 --> 00:24:49.300
But there is no doubt that when
you look at what I stand for,

00:24:49.334 --> 00:24:52.501
when you look at what
is represented in my work,

00:24:52.534 --> 00:24:57.801
the identification with the Roma
is very clearly there.

00:24:59.634 --> 00:25:01.834
Bradshaw: Losing his family
made it easier

00:25:01.868 --> 00:25:04.634
for Arpád to make
his own choices.

00:25:04.667 --> 00:25:06.467
But hundreds of thousands
of Roma

00:25:06.501 --> 00:25:10.434
still remain trapped on
the edge of Hungarian society.

00:25:10.467 --> 00:25:12.634
They are
on the political agenda now,

00:25:12.667 --> 00:25:16.467
but politics
still hasn\'t found a way out.