WEBVTT

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-The Prelude of the Second Suite

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was the very first piece of music
I performed

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when I was five years old.

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It\'s almost 35 years ago

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that I started to get to know
this work.

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That and then the first recording
when I was about 25 or 26

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was made at a time when I was young,
just started out professionally.

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Now, I feel

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I\'m at a time when I can actually
reconsider a number of things.

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-This film has to do

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with the exploration
of the common ground

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between music and architecture,

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of all the things that include

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tension, space,
proportions, material.

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I think that music, which is sound,
exists in time and space.

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Architecture deals
with some of the same elements

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I\'d like to find.

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I think that the two have
an incredible amount in common.

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-Today,
we listened to the Bach Suites.

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In a very complicated world
with lots of music around,

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it means something
very special to people.

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We look at Piranesi\'s drawings.

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Still, it is an incredibly
powerful method

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of thinking about architecture.

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In fact, these two people
who don\'t, in a way, belong together,

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are coming together in this film

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for a very specific purpose
because their work is somehow alive.

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-I think we\'re going to try
and do something pretty unusual.

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Nothing that we\'re doing actually exists,
putting me in a space

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that exists in a drawing,

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but I\'m actually going to be
in that space

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or pretend I\'m in that space
playing dance music

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that was never danced to.

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All of this is, in fact,

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we\'re trying
to show something in film

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that doesn\'t exist
except in our minds.

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-People tend to think of Piranesi

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as the greatest topographical
engraver of all time,

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but we have to think of Piranesi
essentially as architect.

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He was trained as an architect.

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His father was a stonemason
and a building contractor.

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His uncle was the leading architect
of the harbor works in Venice.

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He was trained as an architect.

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He had a destiny, as he saw it,
to reform architecture.

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He saw himself
as Architetto Veneziano,

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and he engraved himself
in that kind of manner.

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When he came to Rome,

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there was very little opportunity
for a practicing architect,

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and so he channeled his energies

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financially to earn a livelihood
into engraved views.

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He learned the arts of etching,

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and then he put all his
architectural energy

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into his views of Rome,
the Vedute di Roma,

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which was souvenirs
for the English grand tourist.

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He also crusaded, right through his life,
to reform architecture

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from his etchings
and his personal inspiration.

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The only chance he ever had to really
build seriously was in the 1760s

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when he built this church at the Priorato,
here in Rome.

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-The one theme I think of this project is
Yo-Yo\'s interaction,

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how he would play differently
after viewing the pictures.

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If Yo-Yo is in a concert hall

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playing a concert,
he\'ll play one way.

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His interaction with the audience,
this direct feedback that he would get,

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creates a certain spontaneity
and allows him to play a certain way.

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If he\'s in another environment,

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perhaps the recording studio,
he\'ll play differently.

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Well, now,
you have a rather complex issue,

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where he\'s performing,
trying to imagine

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and gain a certain inspiration
from these etchings.

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In a sense, it\'s a spiritual thing.

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He\'ll be imagining
what him being placed in the Carceri

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is rather ominous structure
playing Bach Second Suite.

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-Yo-Yo, we need to put it
along with the distant mics

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that we\'re giving you now.

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We need to put a little bit of artificial
reverberation to lengthen the decay.

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That\'s going to take
about a minute or two.

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We\'ll let you know
when we\'re done with that.

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-This chapel is real.

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Obviously, this is a jumping-off point
to yet another imaginary step.

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Everything we\'re talking about is
in the realm of thought and imagination,

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very hard things to quantify,
but we\'re going to try to do that.

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-There are two elements
in this process,

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in this particular process
of trying to recreate

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a venue that doesn\'t really exist.

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The first process is
Yo-Yo seeing the engravings of Piranesi

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and then performing Bach\'s music,

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imagining what it would be like,

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almost in a spiritual sense,

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to play in this in the Carceri.

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That\'s rather abstract,

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but I think quantifiable,

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whereas the second element
in the process is

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acoustically creating
an audio virtual reality.

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What we will be doing is
taking the microphones

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that we have in different places
in the chapel here

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and feeding Yo-Yo
through a pair of headphones

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a very rough mix of how we perceive

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it would sound in this particular venue
that Yo-Yo is trying to imagine.

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[Cello music]

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-Can I start?

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-You are now in another environment.

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Why don\'t you try it with that?

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-All right.

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-Steve,
I have to tell you something.

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I don\'t know
whether this is the way you mean this,

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but from playing in cathedrals,

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this is much more reverb

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than it\'s even in the biggest cathedral
I\'ve ever played in.

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-Very possibly.

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-In a sense,
we were just exaggerating it.

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We could really try
to put you in that space

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and see how you would react

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and how you would change
your performance.

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-What\'s happening is that
all the notes run into one another

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even at a slow tempo.

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-The question is really
from a perspective question.

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In other words, even in a cathedral
with the longest decay,

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you wouldn\'t hear it

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the way you\'re hearing it
over the headphones, obviously.

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The way it\'s being heard
over the headphones is as

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is from the vantage point

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of somebody listening
at a much greater distance.

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-Right, I understand that.

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Right now, how much reverb is there?

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-About 12 seconds.

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-Give me eight
and see what that sounds like.

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Steve: Got that, eight.

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-Nothing like building your own space.

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Steve: [chuckles]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-That\'s good.

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Because you can grade it,

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I can see you have
lots of possibilities.

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You can do a whole number of things

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depending on

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-what the camera system is going to be.
-The vantage point of the camera.

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-Exactly. If you really do have
that gradation ability,

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then I accept whatever you-

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Steve: This has been fairly crude,
in a sense.

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-Right.
-[crosstalk] to look at,

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-we have a much better--
-That\'s already much better than yesterday

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from certainly what I heard
on the headphones.

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Steve: The other effect yesterday had
none of your presence close mic.

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That would have been somebody
watching you from a great distance.

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-Can I now go record the [?]?

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Steve: It would be our pleasure.

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-Or should I just go record the [?]?

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Steve: I prefer the latter.

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-Thank you.
-Great.

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-In this viable performance
that we just heard

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in this very reverberant acoustic,

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if you were to perform it
the same way in a dryer hall,

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I don\'t think
it would be successful.

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-It would sound lousy.
-It would be exaggerated.

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-Yes, absolutely.

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-What does that mean also?

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You can make or break a performance
depending on the hall you\'re in.

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-That\'s not entirely actually--
-I think that\'s true.

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You know what, Steve?

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I spend an hour
on a day of the concert

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in a new hall,
walking around the hall,

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the way you do it
for a recording session.

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Very often moving a chair
or piano several inches

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makes or breaks a performance

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because it\'s either
unbelievably disgusting,

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hard to listen to,

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and it\'s effort fall
in the wrong ways

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or it starts to say
it\'s using the hall.

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The way that we talk
about every performance

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should be different

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because you\'re different every day.

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How often do we say that

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but do we really believe it?

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This is actually the first time
I have physical proof

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that this is in fact true

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even though we\'re doing it
in an imaginary space.

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[Cello music]

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[Cello music]

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-There is more boom.
Strangely enough,

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-there is more boom.
-[?] a little

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-further off.
-You hear a difference?

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-Yes. It\'s a paradox

00:24:22.561 --> 00:24:23.690
because we\'re hearing
a little more presence,

00:24:23.858 --> 00:24:25.420
but we\'re also hearing
a little more boom,

00:24:25.588 --> 00:24:26.588
believe it or not,

00:24:27.428 --> 00:24:28.428
in this new position.

00:24:28.588 --> 00:24:32.424
-Okay. This is in between
the second and third position.

00:24:32.870 --> 00:24:37.607
[Cello music]

00:24:37.775 --> 00:24:39.063
-It\'s not bad.
-[?]

00:24:39.231 --> 00:24:41.786
-I think we should
go out for a second.

00:24:41.954 --> 00:24:43.213
We\'re coming out. Thanks.

00:24:45.047 --> 00:24:46.888
-I now have two choices,

00:24:47.059 --> 00:24:48.059
okay?
-Yes.

00:24:48.227 --> 00:24:49.570
[Cello music]

00:24:49.738 --> 00:24:51.250
-I hear that.
-No, hold on.

00:24:51.418 --> 00:24:52.491
Let me try.

00:24:52.678 --> 00:24:53.678
Here.

00:24:53.846 --> 00:24:57.834
[Cello music]

00:24:58.002 --> 00:24:59.002
-That\'s more linear.

00:24:59.170 --> 00:25:06.170
[Cello music]

00:25:06.337 --> 00:25:10.337
[Cello music]

00:25:10.504 --> 00:25:13.889
[Cello music]

00:25:14.057 --> 00:25:15.057
-Sounds good.

00:25:18.018 --> 00:25:20.201
-Listen,
let me just show you something.

00:25:22.166 --> 00:25:24.721
The difference
is a quarter of an inch.

00:25:32.742 --> 00:25:33.742
Is that incredible?

00:25:34.546 --> 00:25:35.546
-It is.

00:25:36.976 --> 00:25:43.976
[Cello music]

00:25:44.143 --> 00:25:48.643
[Cello music]

00:25:48.810 --> 00:25:53.618
[Cello music]

00:25:53.786 --> 00:25:56.388
-I think some of the things
that we\'ve discussed

00:25:56.704 --> 00:26:00.884
include the idea of what is reality?

00:26:01.326 --> 00:26:02.606
What is fantasy?

00:26:02.774 --> 00:26:05.419
What is reality for sound?

00:26:05.587 --> 00:26:08.110
What is reality in terms of space?

00:26:08.278 --> 00:26:10.555
What is reality in terms of time?

00:26:12.026 --> 00:26:14.265
What\'s reality in terms of memory?

00:26:15.760 --> 00:26:20.105
Since you can show music

00:26:20.273 --> 00:26:23.987
as a definite form of energy

00:26:25.843 --> 00:26:28.257
in a space in time,

00:26:28.769 --> 00:26:32.448
it is also
a lot of undefinable things

00:26:32.616 --> 00:26:36.514
that deal with our inner life

00:26:37.541 --> 00:26:39.748
including memory,

00:26:40.213 --> 00:26:41.995
spirituality,

00:26:43.987 --> 00:26:46.045
abstract forms,

00:26:46.213 --> 00:26:48.846
and it\'s also
a codification of emotion.

00:26:50.768 --> 00:26:53.183
The things that
we talked about yesterday,

00:26:54.086 --> 00:26:55.242
the day before,

00:26:57.668 --> 00:27:00.678
let\'s put ourselves
in an imaginary space.

00:27:02.010 --> 00:27:03.229
What does that mean?

00:27:03.397 --> 00:27:05.088
Very difficult thing to do

00:27:05.873 --> 00:27:09.162
but yet, through Steve\'s ingenuity,

00:27:09.330 --> 00:27:10.772
I can put on headphones

00:27:10.940 --> 00:27:13.721
and actually react to a space
that is imaginary,

00:27:13.889 --> 00:27:17.108
and then it becomes
a more real space

00:27:17.276 --> 00:27:19.619
because I can hear it
or it\'s my mind

00:27:19.787 --> 00:27:21.787
or now I have a memory of it.

00:27:22.916 --> 00:27:25.706
-As I think
of Yo-Yo playing the suites

00:27:25.882 --> 00:27:30.102
or any one of the suits
in different places,

00:27:30.349 --> 00:27:33.554
I cannot but help feel that

00:27:33.862 --> 00:27:35.358
the environment has
a profound impact.

00:27:35.526 --> 00:27:38.510
I told you before the story
about him playing the first week

00:27:38.870 --> 00:27:42.870
in the seashore in Aqaba
with the sound of the sea waves.

00:27:44.485 --> 00:27:49.743
I think that the case here is that
he is not in a Piranesi space.

00:27:50.302 --> 00:27:52.005
He is reading the Piranesi space;

00:27:52.173 --> 00:27:54.368
he\'s actually not
within the Piranesi space.

00:27:54.771 --> 00:27:56.798
Here we come to the question
that\'s very profound,

00:27:56.966 --> 00:28:00.068
which is the difference
between architecture as real experience

00:28:00.682 --> 00:28:05.095
and the experiencing of architecture
through another medium

00:28:05.439 --> 00:28:08.478
which relies on our perception
and our fantasies.

00:28:08.867 --> 00:28:11.762
Yo-Yo playing
in a real Piranesi space,

00:28:11.981 --> 00:28:14.450
actually three-dimensional,
actually constructed,

00:28:14.625 --> 00:28:15.915
actually that infinite,

00:28:16.083 --> 00:28:19.364
going up hundreds of meters,
real sunlight coming through,

00:28:19.836 --> 00:28:20.836
is one thing.

00:28:21.133 --> 00:28:24.656
Yo-Yo playing this
thinking of his perception of that space,

00:28:24.824 --> 00:28:26.848
two-dimensionally coming off
a piece of paper,

00:28:27.016 --> 00:28:28.016
is another thing.

00:28:29.157 --> 00:28:32.500
Graphics,
renditions are not architecture,

00:28:32.950 --> 00:28:34.176
and never are architecture,

00:28:34.344 --> 00:28:36.309
models not architecture.

00:28:36.649 --> 00:28:39.196
This is the curse of architecture today
that people believe

00:28:39.364 --> 00:28:43.036
that a piece of paper
or a piece of wood is architecture,

00:28:43.249 --> 00:28:44.454
neither are architecture.

00:28:44.622 --> 00:28:48.527
Both are attempts to make us
feel something about architecture,

00:28:48.695 --> 00:28:50.203
think something about architecture

00:28:50.543 --> 00:28:52.320
that we might if it\'s created.

00:28:52.672 --> 00:28:54.710
If Yo-Yo was to sit
in the real thing,

00:28:54.996 --> 00:28:56.558
it would be profoundly different

00:28:56.890 --> 00:28:59.164
to his sitting in front of the picture,

00:28:59.332 --> 00:29:01.719
or in your computer graphic construct.

00:29:02.969 --> 00:29:05.437
-Were you thinking of the [?] in there?
-Actually, yes.

00:29:05.581 --> 00:29:07.776
I actually was trying very much

00:29:07.967 --> 00:29:11.034
to think of when we had
a discussion yesterday;

00:29:12.199 --> 00:29:15.186
François told us exactly
what drawings he had chosen

00:29:15.354 --> 00:29:17.920
and what the camera
movement was going to be.

00:29:18.147 --> 00:29:21.069
The sidebar would have
a two and a half turn

00:29:21.237 --> 00:29:23.823
in one of the places
and then in the prelude is,

00:29:24.076 --> 00:29:26.920
you\'re in this space,
and they\'re looking from outside inside.

00:29:27.784 --> 00:29:29.350
I do have a sense

00:29:29.518 --> 00:29:31.666
because he has a sense
of what he wants to communicate

00:29:32.103 --> 00:29:33.390
visually, emotionally.

00:29:34.315 --> 00:29:36.666
-You\'re imagining of this space,
you\'re thinking of this space,

00:29:36.834 --> 00:29:39.166
I don\'t think it\'s the same
as actually being in this space.

00:29:39.412 --> 00:29:41.334
-No, I don\'t think
it\'s the same either

00:29:41.502 --> 00:29:44.565
but the visual stuff is,
in fact, it always affects it.

00:29:44.748 --> 00:29:46.826
That I\'ve proven to myself

00:29:47.264 --> 00:29:52.967
many times by actually
having students play in spaces

00:29:53.135 --> 00:29:58.666
and having them look at a space
or make eye contact or look at something.

00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.560
It actually completely changes
the sound that comes out.

00:30:01.824 --> 00:30:06.469
So in fact,
it\'s a mental visual manipulation.

00:30:06.637 --> 00:30:10.543
[Cello music]

00:30:10.793 --> 00:30:14.050
-Yes, that seems to follow
through on the [?].

00:30:14.887 --> 00:30:16.996
-Okay, good, so, [?].

00:30:18.135 --> 00:30:22.401
[Cello music]

00:30:22.569 --> 00:30:26.420
[Cello music]

00:31:01.976 --> 00:31:08.976
[Cello music]

00:31:09.143 --> 00:31:16.143
[Cello music]

00:31:16.310 --> 00:31:23.310
[Cello music]

00:31:23.477 --> 00:31:30.477
[Cello music]

00:31:30.644 --> 00:31:37.644
[Cello music]

00:31:37.811 --> 00:31:44.811
[Cello music]

00:31:44.978 --> 00:31:51.978
[Cello music]

00:31:52.145 --> 00:31:57.975
[Cello music]

00:31:58.143 --> 00:32:03.798
[Cello music]

00:32:03.966 --> 00:32:10.501
[Cello music]

00:32:10.669 --> 00:32:13.479
[Cello music]

00:32:13.646 --> 00:32:20.646
[Cello music]

00:32:20.813 --> 00:32:27.813
[Cello music]

00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:34.980
[Cello music]

00:32:35.147 --> 00:32:42.147
[Cello music]

00:32:42.314 --> 00:32:49.314
[Cello music]

00:32:49.481 --> 00:32:56.481
[Cello music]

00:32:56.648 --> 00:33:01.827
[Cello music]

00:33:01.995 --> 00:33:07.229
[Cello music]

00:33:08.428 --> 00:33:15.428
[Cello music]

00:33:15.595 --> 00:33:22.595
[Cello music]

00:33:22.762 --> 00:33:29.762
[Cello music]

00:33:29.929 --> 00:33:36.929
[Cello music]

00:33:37.096 --> 00:33:44.096
[Cello music]

00:33:44.263 --> 00:33:51.263
[Cello music]

00:33:51.430 --> 00:33:58.430
[Cello music]

00:33:58.597 --> 00:34:05.597
[Cello music]

00:34:05.764 --> 00:34:12.764
[Cello music]

00:34:12.931 --> 00:34:19.931
[Cello music]

00:34:20.098 --> 00:34:27.098
[Cello music]

00:34:27.265 --> 00:34:29.725
[Cello music]

00:34:29.893 --> 00:34:36.893
[Cello music]

00:34:37.060 --> 00:34:44.060
[Cello music]

00:34:44.227 --> 00:34:51.227
[Cello music]

00:34:51.394 --> 00:34:58.394
[Cello music]

00:34:58.561 --> 00:35:05.561
[Cello music]

00:35:05.728 --> 00:35:12.728
[Cello music]

00:35:12.895 --> 00:35:19.895
[Cello music]

00:35:20.062 --> 00:35:27.062
[Cello music]

00:35:27.229 --> 00:35:34.229
[Cello music]

00:35:34.396 --> 00:35:41.396
[Cello music]

00:35:41.563 --> 00:35:48.563
[Cello music]

00:35:48.730 --> 00:35:54.096
[Cello music]

00:35:54.264 --> 00:36:01.264
[Cello music]

00:36:06.902 --> 00:36:13.902
[Cello music]

00:36:14.069 --> 00:36:18.682
[Cello music]

00:36:18.897 --> 00:36:22.487
-If I had to describe the Carceri
to somebody who had not seen them,

00:36:22.655 --> 00:36:24.393
and I think this is
an important exercise

00:36:24.561 --> 00:36:28.435
because it really forces
one to actually distill the essence

00:36:28.603 --> 00:36:30.819
of these very remarkable works,

00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:34.279
I would say that
they\'re essentially works

00:36:34.447 --> 00:36:38.608
which have a profound
catalytic force upon the imagination.

00:36:38.776 --> 00:36:41.385
They are after all scenes of prisons,

00:36:41.943 --> 00:36:43.998
eventually 16 plates,

00:36:44.212 --> 00:36:49.564
all of them variants
on the sense of a kind of claustrophobia,

00:36:49.732 --> 00:36:51.388
a sense of frustration,

00:36:51.626 --> 00:36:55.998
great Roman arches,
and caverns of architecture,

00:36:56.166 --> 00:36:59.820
which had that sense
of frustration about them,

00:36:59.988 --> 00:37:02.121
that sense of imprisonment

00:37:02.398 --> 00:37:08.241
in which there is almost no parallel
in European engraving or art,

00:37:08.566 --> 00:37:13.374
certainly in the 18th century
and possibly no later century.

00:37:13.542 --> 00:37:16.456
This is one of the reasons
why the Carceri has continued to be

00:37:16.624 --> 00:37:21.941
such an incredible stimulus
upon writers and film directors

00:37:22.109 --> 00:37:24.023
and even musicians in this sense.

00:37:29.265 --> 00:37:31.452
Yo-Yo: Another way of structuring things

00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:36.889
in composition through symbolism
could be keys.

00:37:37.077 --> 00:37:39.119
Richard: Yes, and of course, for Bach

00:37:39.318 --> 00:37:43.361
you know, these keys are
really quintessential

00:37:43.529 --> 00:37:46.865
in terms of what he\'s trying
to communicate with his listener.

00:37:47.033 --> 00:37:51.915
D minor most particularly
means something very significant

00:37:52.083 --> 00:37:54.482
-for [?].
-And I think this key,

00:37:55.888 --> 00:37:58.778
to me, has a sense of loneliness.

00:37:59.333 --> 00:38:00.333
Richard: Very much so,

00:38:00.661 --> 00:38:02.505
isolation and struggle.

00:38:02.970 --> 00:38:07.658
It deals with a profoundly
human struggle,

00:38:08.553 --> 00:38:12.432
and it\'s interesting to note
that profoundly human struggle,

00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:18.194
which is seen in Bach and the Passions
in which we hear with this solo voice

00:38:18.502 --> 00:38:21.034
that sings and dances
in the D minor suite,

00:38:21.287 --> 00:38:23.248
is also there in other composers.

00:38:23.416 --> 00:38:26.815
It\'s there in the D minor
Ninth Symphony of Beethoven,

00:38:27.131 --> 00:38:28.413
that human struggle.

00:38:29.476 --> 00:38:31.847
I wasn\'t really sure
what the connections were

00:38:32.015 --> 00:38:33.422
between Bach and Piranesi,

00:38:33.590 --> 00:38:37.621
and also particularly
between the second suite,

00:38:37.789 --> 00:38:39.035
which is in D minor,

00:38:39.226 --> 00:38:40.235
and the Carceri.

00:38:41.638 --> 00:38:44.852
So I began to think about D minor

00:38:45.246 --> 00:38:48.839
and what it meant,
and what were the associations for Bach

00:38:49.207 --> 00:38:50.410
with the key of D minor?

00:38:50.718 --> 00:38:54.296
Immediately, I started looking
at other work in D minor,

00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:56.050
but most specifically

00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:59.464
that of the St John
and the St Matthew Passion.

00:38:59.885 --> 00:39:05.213
In the St John Passion, of course,
there is a fantastic moment

00:39:05.381 --> 00:39:07.131
toward the beginning of the work

00:39:08.810 --> 00:39:10.201
which is in D minor,

00:39:10.830 --> 00:39:14.947
in which there is an aria
that comments on

00:39:15.220 --> 00:39:17.806
Jesus just having been
in the dramatic action,

00:39:17.982 --> 00:39:20.381
led away in chains, in bondage,

00:39:21.490 --> 00:39:22.967
from the Garden of Gethsemane

00:39:23.469 --> 00:39:26.431
and the aria is really
a musical depiction,

00:39:28.099 --> 00:39:31.626
in the baroque sense
of bondage and imprisonment.

00:39:31.794 --> 00:39:36.138
This I thought was
really quite significant

00:39:36.411 --> 00:39:39.252
as it relates
to the idea of the Carceri.

00:39:41.567 --> 00:39:44.333
-There\'s another profound comparison

00:39:44.501 --> 00:39:45.974
between those two works,

00:39:46.142 --> 00:39:48.700
the Second Suite of Bach
and the Carceri,

00:39:48.907 --> 00:39:52.146
a great sense of containment
and imprisonment.

00:39:52.751 --> 00:39:54.353
After all, they are prisons,

00:39:54.521 --> 00:39:56.528
and many people even interpreted

00:39:56.696 --> 00:39:59.782
the title that Piranesi
gave to his plates

00:39:59.950 --> 00:40:01.972
in the second version in 1761,

00:40:02.140 --> 00:40:03.825
the Carceri d\'Invenzione

00:40:04.062 --> 00:40:06.099
as the prisons of the imagination.

00:40:06.353 --> 00:40:10.384
As if the imagination
was being contained and imprisoned

00:40:10.552 --> 00:40:12.114
in some powerful way.

00:40:12.642 --> 00:40:16.407
People like Aldous Huxley
have seen the sense of imprisonment

00:40:16.575 --> 00:40:19.646
in terms of Kafka,
their sense of frustration,

00:40:19.814 --> 00:40:22.755
where the human being
is dwarfed by the architecture

00:40:22.923 --> 00:40:26.149
and led into fathomless journeys,

00:40:26.317 --> 00:40:27.672
which leads to nowhere

00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:30.804
and a great sense
of frustration and angst.

00:40:39.506 --> 00:40:41.787
-Often, work of artist is looked at,

00:40:41.971 --> 00:40:43.030
\"Is it beautiful?\"

00:40:43.647 --> 00:40:46.502
I would prefer to look at it as,
\"Is it true?\"

00:40:46.670 --> 00:40:50.444
I think when you deal
with moments of truth,

00:40:50.680 --> 00:40:53.526
sometimes it can be beautiful,
sometimes it could be terrible,

00:40:53.858 --> 00:40:56.536
but it\'s actually a fusion
of a lot of things.

00:40:56.967 --> 00:40:59.787
What\'s interesting about
Bach and Piranesi, for example, is

00:41:00.194 --> 00:41:04.837
we spent a lot of time
trying to get inside their minds.

00:41:05.748 --> 00:41:07.194
What\'s interesting is,

00:41:07.576 --> 00:41:09.115
we\'ve actually been dealing

00:41:09.815 --> 00:41:11.791
using the best of what,

00:41:12.251 --> 00:41:13.885
live people can do

00:41:14.288 --> 00:41:18.194
is getting a communication
between the living and the dead

00:41:19.002 --> 00:41:21.995
and bringing them
in a different form to the present.

00:41:22.163 --> 00:41:26.553
The best of what they were
can still live on.

00:41:26.827 --> 00:41:30.881
That actually is one
definition of culture.

00:41:31.561 --> 00:41:33.756
Steve, could you just tell me
when you’re ready?

00:41:35.398 --> 00:41:36.530
Steve: [?]

00:41:37.952 --> 00:41:41.296
This is Bach Suite Number Two,
Menuet, take one.

00:41:42.742 --> 00:41:45.108
[Cello music]

00:41:55.778 --> 00:42:02.778
[Cello music]

00:42:02.945 --> 00:42:09.945
[Cello music]

00:42:10.112 --> 00:42:17.112
[Cello music]

00:42:17.279 --> 00:42:24.279
[Cello music]

00:42:24.446 --> 00:42:31.446
[Cello music]

00:42:31.613 --> 00:42:38.613
[Cello music]

00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:45.780
[Cello music]

00:42:45.947 --> 00:42:52.947
[Cello music]

00:42:53.114 --> 00:43:00.114
[Cello music]

00:43:00.281 --> 00:43:04.874
[Cello music]

00:43:05.125 --> 00:43:12.125
[Cello music]

00:43:12.292 --> 00:43:19.292
[Cello music]

00:43:19.459 --> 00:43:26.459
[Cello music]

00:43:26.626 --> 00:43:33.626
[Cello music]

00:43:33.793 --> 00:43:40.793
[Cello music]

00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:47.960
[Cello music]

00:43:48.127 --> 00:43:51.024
[Cello music]

00:43:51.192 --> 00:43:58.192
[Cello music]

00:43:58.359 --> 00:44:05.359
[Cello music]

00:44:05.526 --> 00:44:12.526
[Cello music]

00:44:12.693 --> 00:44:19.693
[Cello music]

00:44:19.860 --> 00:44:26.860
[Cello music]

00:44:27.027 --> 00:44:34.027
[Cello music]

00:44:34.194 --> 00:44:41.194
[Cello music]

00:44:41.361 --> 00:44:48.361
[Cello music]

00:44:48.528 --> 00:44:52.504
[Cello music]

00:45:01.293 --> 00:45:03.074
Steve: This was the Baroque style,
correct?

00:45:03.496 --> 00:45:05.097
Yo-Yo: Yes. How\'s that?

00:45:06.418 --> 00:45:08.324
-That sounds appropriate
for the space.

00:45:08.492 --> 00:45:09.492
It sounded very natural.

00:45:09.660 --> 00:45:11.278
Yo-Yo: That\'s slightly better

00:45:11.629 --> 00:45:13.379
than the last version, don\'t you think?

00:45:13.617 --> 00:45:15.152
-Yes, the last version,
you were still, I think,

00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:17.219
feeling your way in this acoustic.

00:45:17.656 --> 00:45:18.656
-Yes.

00:45:20.102 --> 00:45:24.539
I actually think that the Baroque way
would be closer

00:45:25.460 --> 00:45:26.597
to what one could achieve.

00:45:26.765 --> 00:45:30.102
-We haven\'t really heard enough
to make any final decision,

00:45:30.609 --> 00:45:32.031
but we\'re moving
in the right direction.

00:45:32.273 --> 00:45:34.632
If you were to play more,
we\'ll let you know what\'s happening.

00:45:34.808 --> 00:45:35.808
Yo-Yo: Okay.

00:45:35.863 --> 00:45:42.863
[Cello music]

00:45:43.030 --> 00:45:50.030
[Cello music]

00:45:50.197 --> 00:45:54.206
[Cello music]

00:45:55.628 --> 00:45:56.628
Yo-Yo: What?

00:45:56.956 --> 00:46:00.662
-I prefer that
to the full Baroque style

00:46:00.830 --> 00:46:03.436
-of holding the bow.
-It\'s just actually a matter of-

00:46:03.604 --> 00:46:05.221
-[?] pressure thing, isn\'t it? [?]
-Yes.

00:46:06.830 --> 00:46:08.416
-I think you should hear it.

00:46:08.618 --> 00:46:09.889
You may feel totally the opposite.

00:46:10.057 --> 00:46:11.080
Yo-Yo: Okay, let\'s go, listen.

00:46:11.214 --> 00:46:12.214
-Yes, fine.

00:46:13.839 --> 00:46:14.839
-Oh, boy.

00:46:18.043 --> 00:46:19.112
We\'ll be here all night.

00:46:20.031 --> 00:46:21.031
I want to get out of here.

00:46:25.031 --> 00:46:30.750
Now, are you happy with,
that the version that we made,

00:46:31.546 --> 00:46:32.769
does that approximate?

00:46:32.937 --> 00:46:38.054
Will that stand the test of being put
in the space of the Carceri?

00:46:39.093 --> 00:46:40.148
-Oh, I think definitely.

00:46:41.405 --> 00:46:43.460
Frankly,
the turning point in all of this

00:46:46.049 --> 00:46:49.862
was, in fact, the headphone experiment

00:46:50.776 --> 00:46:54.593
but also the sound that you were producing

00:46:54.761 --> 00:46:57.448
when you changed
your bowing technique.

00:46:59.233 --> 00:47:00.523
It shed a whole different light

00:47:01.386 --> 00:47:03.597
on the performance,
on the interpretation.

00:47:05.228 --> 00:47:08.491
I think your concept
of how the music should be played.

00:47:08.659 --> 00:47:15.659
[Cello music]

00:47:15.826 --> 00:47:22.826
[Cello music]

00:47:22.993 --> 00:47:26.993
[Cello music]

00:47:27.196 --> 00:47:28.875
-We\'re all joining the trip.

00:47:29.692 --> 00:47:31.958
The trip is provoked
by the etchings.

00:47:32.548 --> 00:47:34.919
Steven, in his own way,

00:47:35.813 --> 00:47:38.071
through sound, is joining the trip

00:47:38.698 --> 00:47:42.013
and Yo-Yo
and all of us joined the trip.

00:47:42.181 --> 00:47:43.758
We\'re immersed in those drawings

00:47:43.926 --> 00:47:46.258
and we\'re imagining them
and we\'re flowing in them.

00:47:48.309 --> 00:47:50.723
Undoubtedly,
that\'s not just talking about them,

00:47:50.891 --> 00:47:53.500
looking at them; thinking about them
has had a profound impact.

00:47:53.706 --> 00:47:57.285
Being here, being in the city,
I think has had a profound impact.

00:47:59.458 --> 00:48:02.474
One side of me cannot talk
but speculate,

00:48:05.114 --> 00:48:07.388
what to me is
a fascinating speculation,

00:48:08.228 --> 00:48:12.454
which is, what will the real Carceri
have done to all of us?

00:48:13.817 --> 00:48:16.388
In what way would we be different

00:48:17.091 --> 00:48:18.481
being in that Carceri,

00:48:19.934 --> 00:48:21.427
if that was imaginable?

00:48:21.934 --> 00:48:24.872
I say that
because I know the difference

00:48:25.054 --> 00:48:27.055
between representation and reality.

00:48:27.257 --> 00:48:28.672
We looked at the music note

00:48:28.878 --> 00:48:31.151
and we said, there is a music,
but it\'s not yet reality.

00:48:31.370 --> 00:48:32.784
As we read the notes,

00:48:33.174 --> 00:48:36.119
it\'s playing in our mind,
it\'s almost reality.

00:48:36.287 --> 00:48:38.483
Then Yo-Yo plays it,
it\'s another reality.

00:48:38.651 --> 00:48:41.057
He plays it second time,
it\'s the second reality.

00:48:41.225 --> 00:48:43.057
The third time is the third reality.

00:48:43.553 --> 00:48:46.561
The room is a bit different,
so that modifies it again.

00:48:46.764 --> 00:48:48.588
That\'s true
of the visual world as well.

00:48:48.756 --> 00:48:55.756
[Cello music]

00:48:55.923 --> 00:49:02.923
[Cello music]

00:49:03.090 --> 00:49:08.949
[Cello music]

00:49:09.117 --> 00:49:11.297
-Sometimes when something is done

00:49:12.065 --> 00:49:14.723
that you\'ve put so much effort into,

00:49:16.242 --> 00:49:17.758
at the moment of finishing,

00:49:18.648 --> 00:49:21.383
I often feel, I\'m in a dream world,

00:49:22.464 --> 00:49:25.418
because it\'s hard to say,
\"Do I feel fulfilled?\"

00:49:25.844 --> 00:49:28.320
Or \"Am I glad it\'s over?\"

00:49:29.406 --> 00:49:30.406
\"Yes, in a way.\"

00:49:30.551 --> 00:49:32.422
\"Do I wish it went on?\"
\"Possibly,\"

00:49:32.590 --> 00:49:33.854
but it\'s so intense,

00:49:34.105 --> 00:49:36.902
it\'s hard to know exactly
where you are.

00:49:37.257 --> 00:49:40.515
What I can say, is that

00:49:41.816 --> 00:49:45.191
we followed in a way Piranesi credo,

00:49:46.164 --> 00:49:48.117
which was for him,

00:49:48.499 --> 00:49:51.992
he wanted people
in the arts, architects

00:49:53.177 --> 00:49:59.559
to study their medium
with as much attention and profundity

00:50:00.156 --> 00:50:02.344
that others studied nature.

00:50:02.867 --> 00:50:06.125
I think for this project,

00:50:06.492 --> 00:50:07.824
we\'ve really done that.

00:50:08.633 --> 00:50:11.751
For that, I feel very privileged
and very proud.

00:50:11.919 --> 00:50:18.919
[Cello music]

00:50:19.086 --> 00:50:26.086
[Cello music]

00:50:26.253 --> 00:50:33.253
[Cello music]

00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:40.420
[Cello music]

00:50:40.587 --> 00:50:47.587
[Cello music]

00:50:47.754 --> 00:50:54.754
[Cello music]

00:50:54.921 --> 00:51:01.921
[Cello music]

00:51:02.088 --> 00:51:09.088
[Cello music]

00:51:09.255 --> 00:51:16.255
[Cello music]

00:51:16.422 --> 00:51:23.422
[Cello music]

00:51:23.589 --> 00:51:30.589
[Cello music]

00:51:30.756 --> 00:51:37.756
[Cello music]

00:51:37.923 --> 00:51:44.923
[Cello music]

00:51:45.090 --> 00:51:52.090
[Cello music]

00:51:52.264 --> 00:51:59.264
[Cello music]

00:51:59.431 --> 00:52:06.431
[Cello music]

00:52:06.598 --> 00:52:13.598
[Cello music]

00:52:13.765 --> 00:52:20.765
[Cello music]

00:52:20.932 --> 00:52:27.932
[Cello music]

00:52:28.099 --> 00:52:35.099
[Cello music]

00:52:35.266 --> 00:52:42.266
[Cello music]

00:52:42.433 --> 00:52:49.433
[Cello music]

00:52:49.600 --> 00:52:56.600
[Cello music]

00:52:56.767 --> 00:53:03.767
[Cello music]

00:53:03.934 --> 00:53:10.934
[Cello music]

00:53:11.101 --> 00:53:18.101
[Cello music]

00:53:18.268 --> 00:53:25.268
[Cello music]

00:53:25.435 --> 00:53:32.435
[Cello music]

00:53:32.602 --> 00:53:39.602
[Cello music]

00:53:39.769 --> 00:53:46.769
[Cello music]

00:53:46.936 --> 00:53:53.936
[Cello music]

00:53:54.103 --> 00:54:01.103
[Cello music]

00:54:01.270 --> 00:54:08.270
[Cello music]

00:54:08.437 --> 00:54:15.437
[Cello music]

00:54:15.604 --> 00:54:22.604
[Cello music]

00:54:22.771 --> 00:54:29.771
[Cello music]

00:54:29.938 --> 00:54:36.938
[Cello music]

00:54:37.105 --> 00:54:44.105
[Cello music]

00:54:44.272 --> 00:54:51.272
[Cello music]

00:54:51.439 --> 00:54:58.439
[Cello music]

00:54:58.607 --> 00:55:05.607
[Cello music]