00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:26.359
When we said we wanted
to see her, it was like... uhhh

00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.359
But don’t you just want to let
it go and leave it at that,

00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.439
not even look at it
and forget about it?

00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:35.000
It’s not that strange,

00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:39.079
it's more common that
we would like to think.

00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:47.280
I see the beauty in it.

00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:48.959
There is something
macabre about it,

00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:51.079
seen through
our eyes,

00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:54.560
but I also see the
beauty in the macabre.

00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:01.400
An image can help us
to honour a memory,

00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.040
to remember the person
and also to mourn them.

00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:55.159
There are no shops in the
neighbourhood, of course,

00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.280
where you can buy used
or second-hand items,

00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.800
which are the shops
I like, you know?

00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.879
The shops where you
discover hidden treasures

00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:05.960
are second-hand shops,
and, above all,

00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.719
the more ramshackle
the better,

00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.400
because it has become
commonplace today to throw out

00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:15.319
what is actually a vintage item, so
there are highly specialised shops

00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:18.840
with everything brilliantly catalogued,
perfectly arranged by section,

00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:22.000
toys you played with as a kid,
things from the 19th century,

00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:26.080
clothes, photos,
postcards...

00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:31.280
People, in fact, have a
very different relationship

00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.960
with the past to the
one I have, they do.

00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:36.759
Everything that might be old, in
general, makes people afraid,

00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:39.439
like something out of
a horror movie:

00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.840
dolls, china dolls, are
a classic from horrors.

00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:48.199
China dolls were made
for children to play with,

00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:51.759
and that’s it, but we see
them now with other eyes.

00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:55.000
I mean, we’re giving them a
meaning that these objects

00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.719
did not originally have. It’s the
same with post-mortem photography.

00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:02.800
Post-mortem photography
is an act of love

00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.680
of family members
towards the deceased.

00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.919
An act of love and a
desire to remember them.

00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.279
Post-mortem photography began
when photography began.

00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:28.480
The daguerreotype was
invented in France,

00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.480
but it was used
everywhere.

00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.759
Really, the practice
of photography

00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.519
inherited what
was done in painting,

00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:40.639
and in painting there were
already post-mortem portraits.

00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:44.480
So then there was a
transitional stage, and gradually

00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.560
photographers began to work
out the best way of producing

00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.720
these kinds of portraits through
the medium of photography.

00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.519
I’ve had this painting for
more than forty years.

00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.800
It arrived in my life
with my husband.

00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:23.600
He came with all the
baggage of his family,

00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.519
and that’s how it
came to me.

00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.839
My first memory of it
is in my flat in Palma,

00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.759
I had it hidden in a
wardrobe, facing the wall.

00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:53.040
Because you couldn’t look
at this picture, it was so sad,

00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:58.639
it was a photo of a dead child,
and at the time I had a son

00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:02.800
the same age as the
child in the painting.

00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.920
A man we knew, a
friend of my husband’s

00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:13.639
who ran auctions,
to get rid of the picture,

00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:17.120
which neither
of us liked,

00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:20.560
we asked if we could
take it to auction.

00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:24.079
I don’t remember
what he said,

00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:29.279
that it wouldn’t work, in
short, another closed door.

00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:45.000
Now when I look at it,
I see more life there

00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.519
than I remember,
as if he had a light,

00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.240
more light than
he had before.

00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:04.839
This child, I think, was one of
the children of Pilar Montaner.

00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:10.439
Pilar Montaner is a painter
who had 14 children,

00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:14.879
and a couple
of them died.

00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:18.519
And this child must
have been one of them.

00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:23.639
Death was more
accepted than it is now.

00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.480
It’s strange now the idea
of children dying so often.

00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.040
Although it was
quite common,

00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.639
the effect must have
been the same as today,

00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:41.800
if they die today
or in the 19th century,

00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:44.439
it’s one of your
children that’s died.

00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.360
A son that disappears,
part of you that just goes.

00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.279
And your children going before
you, that’s hard to understand.

00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.360
The evolution of post-mortem
portrait photography

00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:14.680
was studied by a
North American scholar.

00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:17.480
Jay Ruby explains there
are three typologies

00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:23.920
that were developed during the
second half of the 19th century.

00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:28.120
The first was to represent the
deceased as if they were alive,

00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:34.200
in other words, sitting down,
often on a sofa or armchair.

00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:38.799
Sometimes held in
a standing position,

00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.600
surrounded by
the family.

00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:47.399
Sometimes with
their eyes open

00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.399
or painted onto
their eyelids.

00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:55.120
Always with the idea of
dispelling any suspicion

00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:59.080
that the person in
the photo is dead.

00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:05.600
The next typology
was a softer approach,

00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.240
in which it was hard to tell if
the person was alive or dead.

00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:12.159
He defines this as the deceased
as if they were asleep,

00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.639
so normally lying
on a sofa,

00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:21.039
with their eyes closed and
a visually softer image,

00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.200
but already we have
that difference between

00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.200
the vertical and the
horizontal in terms

00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.120
of the composition
of the image.

00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.440
And the third typology is a
clearer acceptance of death

00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.679
and the deceased is
photographed in the coffin.

00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.919
So here we have,
you could say,

00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:55.399
the bibles of post-mortem
photography,

00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:57.399
also edited
by Mr Burns.

00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:01.519
This was the book
that inspired Amenábar

00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.720
when he was writing
The Others

00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.320
for the part with the
post-mortem photography.

00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.080
In fact, I think that he's one of
the few people that has a copy.

00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.919
Some of the photos
they use are real,

00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.840
others have been
created for the film,

00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:21.960
because in fact Amenábar appears
in one and Mateo Gil in another

00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:27.120
as one of the deceased, so quite
a dark sense of humour and I...

00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.399
I was curious about
whether this really

00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.639
was a practice common
to the 19th century.

00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:37.879
And that was when
I started to investigate.

00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:04.879
There were three of us, a sister
and a dead brother and me.

00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.879
My brother had died,
he died very young.

00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.240
(Put your head back a little).

00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.279
He lived for 48 hours
and of those 48 hours,

00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:23.840
I remember 15 minutes,
if I remember anything...

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.480
But those 15 minutes
somehow marked my life.

00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:36.200
As a child I found it
very hard to understand.

00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:40.159
I didn’t know why they were crying,
why they were laughing,

00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.840
why they were all there…

00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:47.799
I didn’t get it. I thought
it was a christening,

00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:52.639
and the photographer had come
to take a photo of the baby.

00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.000
I went into the room
and touched him,

00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:58.200
he was already dead,
but I talked to him,

00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.360
I thought he
was sleeping.

00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.200
And after all the process of
“and where is this photo

00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:08.720
and what was it, and
what can I tell her:

00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.200
it’s your brother who died,
your little brother who died.”

00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.960
Of course you live
with that photo,

00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:20.679
you have a relationship for
many years with a photo.

00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:47.480
Obviously you practically told
the priest at the same time

00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.440
as the photographer, because
you needed to be very quick

00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:56.600
to do this kind of photography
for physical reasons.

00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:01.799
The photographer came to
the house and during the vigil,

00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.920
when the deceased can be
seen for the last time,

00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.519
the photograph
was taken.

00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.000
It usually cost three
times as much

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.880
as the same photograph
that wasn’t posthumous.

00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:24.680
Why? We know this because in
the adverts they put things like,

00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.559
for example, we do
all kinds of portraits,

00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:33.200
we also do post-mortem,
with a cost of…,

00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:37.799
or, it costs twice
a normal portrait

00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.839
because the photographer
was called out urgently.

00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.119
Some of these
kinds of adverts

00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.759
can be found in North
American newspapers,

00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:51.599
and we can see these
kinds of comments

00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.160
in the 19th century
of course.

00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.519
If we come
down here,

00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.799
besides a few books with
post-mortem in the title

00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:26.240
we can see the
first photographs

00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.799
that collectors
would be interested in.

00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:34.839
If the child seems to be
sleeping, in most cases…

00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.400
you can be sure it’s a
post-mortem photograph,

00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:39.200
like here for example.

00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:46.519
I find this one quite
interesting, for example.

00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:50.799
The price is a bit high but
I’m going to make an offer;

00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.799
I’ll offer €45.

00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.359
Rejected automatically.

00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.039
Ok, let’s try 50€.

00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:07.759
Not that one either.

00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:14.359
So I’ll just add it to the
tracking line and leave it.

00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.599
I’ll think about it.

00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.200
What most puts up the
price of a photograph

00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.480
is when there is no doubt
that the person is dead.

00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:29.000
Here the boy is dead,

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.000
because you can see it
clearly in his face,

00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.240
the features change, the
eyes lose their autonomy,

00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.759
it’s very common that
they’re cross-eyed.

00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.119
This is going
for €1,300.

00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.039
But this photo,
is… excellent quality.

00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:54.079
Ah and look,
it’s also in colour.

00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.279
Let’s see here, the ones
that are most expensive,

00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.519
oddly enough, are
the first ones to go.

00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.359
But, for example,

00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.319
this one is being sold
for 125 dollars,

00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.319
it seems expensive
to me.

00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:15.279
This one, for example,
for what it is,

00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.720
but I’m going to look to see
if there are any daguerreotypes,

00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:20.880
they’re the
most expensive.

00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:25.119
Because they come
with their case,

00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:29.119
a glass plate,
with finishes.

00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:35.920
For example, this person
is selling this photo

00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.079
as if it were a
post-mortem photograph.

00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:42.079
Unless there is some kind of
information from the family

00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.720
and on this photograph
in particular

00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.720
I wouldn’t bet on this
child being dead.

00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:52.960
I see the beauty in it,
I see the beauty,

00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.640
there is something macabre
about it seen through our eyes,

00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.920
but I also see the
beauty in the macabre.

00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.319
I see an object belonging to
someone who had a relationship

00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:05.680
with the deceased which
I haven’t had at all,

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.559
but what it comes down
to is an act of love.

00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.720
There are a lot more
photographs of children

00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:05.960
because it was more
common for a child to die.

00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.160
And especially
because there was

00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.359
a stronger emotional
impact with children.

00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:13.920
Of course there were
even fewer photographs

00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:17.680
taken of children
than adults,

00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.160
and in these cases

00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:25.839
as it was a premature death,
whenever it was a child,

00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:30.960
there was a much greater
need to take their photograph.

00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:40.920
For example, we might have a child
depicted as if they were an angel.

00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.599
Sometimes a backdrop was used,
always very homemade,

00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:51.400
with flowers, creating
a kind of visual illusion

00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.440
in which we
see the child

00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.319
as if they were levitating or
rising towards the heavens.

00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:05.920
Sometimes the child was
surrounded by flowers, you know?

00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:12.839
This image is like, the
child is already in heaven.

00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.880
There are many files that
have yet to be described…

00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.440
and also with a
subject like this,

00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.519
even families from
these photographs

00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:55.440
generations down the line
don’t want people finding out

00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.039
that their father
or grandfather

00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:00.559
did these kinds
of photographs

00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.319
because today it would
be frowned upon,

00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:06.880
and many families, on discovering
these kinds of photographs,

00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:10.119
have burnt them,
they’ve burnt them,

00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:15.519
they’ve vanished,
and others haven’t.

00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.200
So, sometimes you’re
more likely to find them

00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.559
in the files of a photographer,
who kept everything,

00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.640
than in the private homes
which gave these commissions,

00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.480
because then when relatives
saw the albums: no no,

00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.440
not that one, and so they didn’t
keep them, they destroyed them.

00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.960
Thanks to the
exhibition in Valencia,

00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:45.279
there were the collections
of José Huguet or Portas,

00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.559
who are among the
private collectors

00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:49.960
that gave their photographs
for the exhibition

00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.799
and have major
collections.

00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.920
In other words, there are
collections that are less well-known

00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:59.119
because they haven’t
necessarily been published,

00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:05.079
but which allow people to find
out about these kinds of objects,

00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.200
which are perhaps
not widely known about.

00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.279
If we start looking, we’ll
find there’s a lot out there.

00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:39.759
One of the things I notice first
in the dead are their hands.

00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:45.079
The hands wizen, they
get wrinkles we don’t have

00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.599
and their position
is very unnatural.

00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:58.480
For this one they’ve set up a
mis-en-scène on a backdrop.

00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.359
Look, this photo even came
with two of the child’s curls.

00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:17.200
Sure, this is one of the most
unusual pieces in my collection.

00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:21.480
Look, three triplets who
died at the same time.

00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:28.920
Imagine what it’s like
for a family with triplets

00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:30.559
and the three children
die at once.

00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.799
This one, interestingly,
came with some information.

00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:40.160
This woman was either
the aunt, it says it here,

00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.759
we don’t know if she’s the
children’s aunt or sister,

00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:46.200
but it was her who
looked after the photos.

00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:58.599
When I was in Bilbao I went
into one of these shops

00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.519
that I like so much, that
has a bit of everything.

00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.240
You know, a shop where
everything is in a jumble,

00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:06.960
piled up everywhere

00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.960
and all the objects and
items are second hand.

00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.720
I asked if they had
any photographs

00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.440
and they said I think
over there in the box.

00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.759
Then, in a box, totally out of
place, I rummaged through

00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.759
and among other kinds of
documents there were photos.

00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:21.759
And so very patiently I
began to take them out

00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.559
and I found the photo,

00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.000
here, I think it
was this one,

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.240
I found two photos of the
same deceased woman.

00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:38.680
Being post-mortem
photographs,

00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:40.680
they caught my attention
and I bought them.

00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:42.799
And when the guy
saw them he said,

00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:44.599
what’s going on
with these photos?

00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.279
No, no, you had them
there in the box.

00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.079
But these photos, but…
who took these photos?

00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:52.359
Holy Mary, you’d have
to be a nasty piece of work

00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:55.279
to take these photos, you’d have to
be a bastard to take these photos…

00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.160
I mean, the guy saw it as
something almost vulgar.

00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:03.079
And yet, as you can see on
the back of one of the photos,

00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:04.640
reading the text,

00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.359
the photos were taken by
the deceased woman’s son

00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.480
so they could be sent to her brother
who couldn’t attend the funeral.

00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:25.200
The use of photography

00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:28.880
wasn’t just to put in an
album or for private use.

00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.480
The photographs were also
taken to put on gravestones.

00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.759
Normally these photos
were when they were alive

00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:39.680
and today you can still see
this in cemeteries, you know,

00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.640
but in the 19th century

00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:44.839
you can see the odd
(photograph) of the dead

00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:46.599
because there
weren’t any others.

00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.759
An image can help us
to honour a memory,

00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:53.519
to remember the person
and also to mourn them.

00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.359
A photograph is also a
substitute for the absent body,

00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:04.119
it’s a kind of tangible space
that allows people to say

00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.680
this is where he is,
this is where I can find

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.599
a loved one who
is no longer with us.

00:33:57.680 --> 00:33:59.920
And it’s this, you see?
The parents here are posed

00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:02.839
as parents of the child who has died
and of another who is still alive,

00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:04.920
and they’re posing as
parents of an older sister,

00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.920
because it is the view of an older
sister reacting to a younger sister.

00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.960
Let’s not rob them of this moment,
let’s let them experience it too,

00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:13.199
and what’s more this girl will
have a photo when she’s older,

00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.199
because she most probably
won’t remember this,

00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.599
so she’ll have this photo.

00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.840
Parents who have a
photo of their baby,

00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.760
who have been able to take
a photo of the newborn

00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.800
when they were still alive
or after they had died,

00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:32.360
always say they have a way
of showing the world

00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:34.920
that this child had existed,
don’t deny me this child,

00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.320
because, look, I’m
showing them to you.

00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:40.920
They are of great help
for those who have spent

00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:43.719
maybe two hours with their
baby, if they were lucky,

00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:46.199
or sometimes
just ten minutes.

00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.719
Sometimes they say, look at
your baby, and they take it away.

00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:51.920
If there isn’t the physical image
it ends up being something

00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.840
that only lives in the
memory of the parents,

00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:58.960
and like all memories,
it becomes hazy,

00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:05.880
gets lost, but an image
is permanent, you know?

00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.480
There has been a total
change of mindset.

00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:14.199
From death is a part of life,
to we don’t like death,

00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:16.440
and we don’t want
to think about it,

00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:18.519
and especially to
immortalise it in a photo

00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:20.760
because we really don’t like
to think that we will die one day.

00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.760
So there has been a
change in culture

00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.920
and in fashion towards
only life, happiness,

00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:33.280
and death is a failure,
something we should cover up

00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:37.039
and the death of a baby
is the ultimate failure.

00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.039
What we call the umbilical cord,
the paper with the name on,

00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:44.199
the bracelet, the dummy, what
you keep from a living baby.

00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:49.559
We talked about
this before,

00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.000
everything the baby
has had in the hospital,

00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.719
everything they wore or
stained, is also a symbolic item

00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:00.079
that allows them to leave the hospital
with something, not with empty arms.

00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.760
The training, above all,
is to give a little context

00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.760
of the families who do not
have a photo, how they feel,

00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.440
and so they see that
photos really do help

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:15.480
because the parents
themselves tell you they do.

00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.000
So when it comes to
taking these photos,

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:22.079
above all don’t get bogged down
by the technical part of there’s

00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.920
not enough light, or
I don’t have a good camera,

00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:29.159
but rather really focus on the fact
that these photos are for the parents,

00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.039
they have to be taken from
the parents’ perspective,

00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:34.159
in other words, we’re not taking
a photo of a baby that has died,

00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:36.000
but rather we are photographing
the son of a couple.

00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:40.039
From this which has
already been edited,

00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:42.039
we go to this one
which is so nice.

00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:44.599
It really changes,
doesn’t it?

00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:46.760
At the end of the day
it’s the same, but..

00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:48.400
It’s completely different.

00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:56.840
The idea would be the way it
works in a lot of places in Europe

00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:00.159
and in the United States,
Canada and Australia,

00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.000
to have an photographers’ association,
a network of volunteer photographers

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.039
who are available to do this all over
Spain, or at least in different areas.

00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.639
So you can say, if it
happens at whatever time,

00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:12.639
in whatever hospital, there
is someone we can call

00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.639
and with whom we have
a signed agreement

00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:16.480
and we’ve solved the problem,
which means we don’t have to get

00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:18.800
into discussions about it
every time it happens.

00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:22.599
So here you see
everything there is,

00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.760
but it’s very much like an autopsy,
it’s very descriptive but

00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.159
when you get down to their level
you connect more easily.

00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:32.039
It’s like when you speak
to a small child,

00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:34.679
if you bend down
you connect better,

00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.039
well this is the
same thing.

00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:39.079
You are bending down to the level
of the baby, or bending down

00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:41.760
to the level from where the
parents are seeing him or her.

00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.480
As a spectator, from here,
there is no connection,

00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.440
from here there is a
connection because

00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:50.039
it’s how the parents see them, and
when you show this to the parents,

00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:52.559
they say, that’s how I saw
him, and when someone

00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:54.199
sees it who hasn’t
seen the baby,

00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:55.960
they have a better understanding
of how the parents saw them.

00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:59.280
I have decided to say, ok, as a
photographer, for the time being,

00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.880
I’m not going to knock on
hospital doors because I think

00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.880
it’ll be a long time before
you can do that.

00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.119
But as a psychologist and
from my own experience

00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.679
and that of other photographers
in other countries

00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:18.159
that I bring over here, I tell the
people that will be there already,

00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:21.360
how to take these photos, the
importance of taking them,

00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.199
how to present the idea to the
parents, how to accompany them,

00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:27.360
and for the moment that
is turning out quite well,

00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:29.400
because they are going
to be there anyway,

00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.760
they don’t have to ask anyone
from outside for permission

00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:33.480
because they are
already there,

00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.119
everyone always has
their mobile with them,

00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:36.639
the parents will
have their mobile …

00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:38.280
so in the end
it’s much easier.

00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.239
This photo was always
very present for my mother

00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:08.280
in all kinds of places, at
the entrance to the house,

00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:13.360
where we were eating or it
was like another one of us,

00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:17.719
it was always present.

00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:22.480
What happened to me,
being a little older,

00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:27.159
I didn’t like it. I didn’t like
my mother telling everyone,

00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:29.039
this is my dead son.

00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:32.960
When I was 14 or 15 and
my friends would come,

00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:34.960
she always showed
them this photo.

00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:39.079
And of course it made me feel
sad that I couldn’t understand

00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:43.039
how my mother still
enjoyed doing that,

00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:49.320
thinking about that child
she had who didn’t live,

00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:55.159
and I think the photo helped
her during those months

00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.760
she was pregnant,
a farewell in a way

00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.519
to what she had carried
in her belly for so long,

00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.639
with so much hope, and
really wanting a child.

00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:09.039
But when I was older
I would say to her:

00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.840
Why have you got a
photo of a dead child?

00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:14.159
And it was because you
liked to remember him.

00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.159
You’re too young.

00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:17.400
I was too young?

00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.039
You don’t remember
much about him.

00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:21.559
But do you like to
see the photo?

00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:24.320
Of course!
Still today.

00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.719
Still today, eh? Someone comes
and you tell them about him.

00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.440
Look at the baby I had?
You tell everyone.

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.480
He weighed more
than 4 kilos.

00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:39.400
What can you do,
that was his fate.

00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.679
Even now, suffering
from dementia,

00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:47.360
she still
remembers him.

00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:51.400
Her dementia is more about
the present, not the past.

00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:56.000
The past still
guides her.

00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.320
He’s got his mouth
open here, hasn’t he?

00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.280
He looks dead here.

00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:04.800
But he looks
like he’s sleeping.

00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.960
I don’t want to remember
anymore, I’ve had enough.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.039
How old would
he be now?

00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:19.199
Now?

00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:21.679
He’d be 57.

00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:28.719
I think a lot of mothers
who lose their babies,

00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:32.239
and can’t see them,
it’s like a trauma

00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.119
and they are
forever searching

00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.199
for the child they
have never known.

00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:37.920
No one wants
to suffer,

00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:41.280
everyone wants to cover up the
suffering in whatever way they can.

00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.920
They think that if you don’t
see it, you won’t suffer,

00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:48.760
but you suffer just
as much, if not more.

00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.280
I accompanied this
family to the hospital.

00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.960
On other occasions

00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:48.119
I’ve had to accompany
families to the funeral home

00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:49.559
they hadn’t taken
photos in the hospital

00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:51.559
or didn’t have the
option at the hospital,

00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.880
but at the funeral home
you can take photos too.

00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:56.800
I have also had to edit
photographs of autopsies,

00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:59.599
because parents who
have no image of their baby

00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:02.679
and they end up thinking, and
what if they took one at the autopsy?

00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:04.800
It will be my baby,
I’ll be able to see him.

00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.960
And then they ask them.
They are very cold photos,

00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:11.159
with very little love in them,
not childlike at all.

00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:22.199
This couple called me when their
baby was going to be born dead

00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:26.480
and they asked me to go
with them, Rocío and Raúl.

00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:29.800
They were a couple
that knew exactly

00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:32.480
what they wanted to do
with their baby girl.

00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:36.039
They said our baby
will be born without life,

00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:38.400
but we want to do
things with our daughter,

00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:40.840
and one of those was
to take photos of her.

00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:44.559
And they were very sure
about it because the same thing

00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:47.440
had happened to them
about a year or so before.

00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:50.480
Their first pregnancy went in
exactly the same way,

00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:54.679
they had the same prognosis,
that the baby won’t make it,

00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:56.880
she has a genetic
problem…

00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:02.239
And in week 20 they told them
to start dealing with the idea

00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:04.480
that the pregnancy
wouldn’t work out.

00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:07.239
They got pregnant again and
the same thing happened,

00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:11.159
in week 20 they gave
them the same prognosis,

00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:15.000
the same likelihood that this
baby girl wouldn’t make it.

00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:18.559
But then what
did they do?

00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:20.559
They said. This time
will be different.

00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:23.559
Now everything we didn’t
do with the first, we’ll do now,

00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:25.880
because this pregnancy
doesn’t end when they tell you

00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:27.440
that this baby
won’t make it.

00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.639
The pregnancy, while we are
pregnant, we’re pregnant.

00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:32.800
So they told her this
just after week 20

00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.480
and the baby was
born in week 27.

00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.199
7 weeks later.

00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:49.159
The first time, with Iris, she was
sure right from the beginning

00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:51.760
that she wanted to see
her and take photos,

00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:57.519
and for me when she
first told me it was like…

00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.440
it wasn’t that I thought
it was wrong,

00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:04.719
but you are experiencing the
pain that you’re going to lose her

00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.000
and it’s hard to
assimilate that.

00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:11.800
It took me one or two
days to think about it,

00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:15.519
but then I was
sure about it too.

00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:24.199
It’s a very painful moment,
you’re not well

00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:28.840
and haven’t got the head to think
clearly, calmly and logically.

00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:38.679
If at that moment you decide
you don’t want to see her,

00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:41.079
you don’t see her,

00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.639
they take her to the funeral
home or the morgue…

00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:50.360
and so we took
a photo, a selfie

00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:53.000
with our mobiles
as best we could.

00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:58.960
And it’s one of the few
photos we have of her.

00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.519
What happened with
Iris happened again,

00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:08.199
but with Nadia,

00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:14.519
because we had had the
experience of being with Iris,

00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:18.519
and that’s why we contacted
Norma and we asked her

00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:22.440
if she could take photos,
because with Iris we took them

00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:30.039
and with Nadia we didn’t want to
waste time taking a decent photo,

00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:33.320
so we said if
Norma agrees…

00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:39.400
They contacted me to ask if as
well as going to the hospital

00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:42.599
for the stillbirth, if I could take
some photos of them pregnant.

00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:49.119
We did the photo shoot of the
couple pregnant on a Thursday

00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:51.320
and the baby was born
dead on the Monday.

00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:54.639
But in the photo shoot she
was alive, she was there.

00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:57.400
It’s very strange to have a couple
who have the same thing

00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.559
happen to them and without
anyone from outside

00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:04.480
who can offer support and say:
you can do this or the other,

00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:09.320
and before the baby dies you
have time to do things with her,

00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:12.119
you can be their mummy and
daddy while she is still alive

00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:14.280
and when she is born dead
you can also be with her,

00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:17.639
you can dress her. If no
one tells you all that,

00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:20.239
it’s unlikely the couple
will think of it

00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.639
who have just been
given the news

00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:26.559
that their baby is dead
or won’t make it,

00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:31.400
but when it happened again,
the only positive thing

00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:34.960
they could do to form
a bond with this baby

00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.440
was everything they
couldn’t do with her sister.

00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:40.199
But of course, we can’t
hope for it to happen twice

00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:42.719
But so we have these
tools to hand.

00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:57.840
These are
Norma’s photos

00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:00.159
The little feet.

00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:06.360
We had asked the
hospital permission first,

00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:09.440
and it really shocked them that
we wanted a photograph here,

00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:11.360
Why? What do
you mean?

00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:13.719
To start with they thought
it was very complicated,

00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:18.559
almost impossible,
and macabre.

00:56:18.559 --> 00:56:21.920
Because we
weren’t family.

00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:25.079
They told us it would be
ok if she was family,

00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:28.360
but because
Norma wasn’t.

00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:31.480
She had to sign
a form to say...

00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:33.599
We gave Norma
authorisation.

00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:37.880
The hospital logo
couldn’t be in the photo

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and other things to
do with confidentiality,

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but when she arrived,

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I asked her to come in with us,
and she was with us at the birth.

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Even when it looked like
the baby was about to come,

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the doctor wanted to throw
her out, and Rocío said no:

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Norma’s staying here,
Norma’s staying.

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The idea of the photo is
simply to have a memory,

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just as when your father
or grandfather dies

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you have photos of their lives
and you don’t hide them away,

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it’s the same with our daughters,
it’s just that unfortunately

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we haven’t been able to
spend more time with them,

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but these photos are the only
moment we had to hold them,

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and that’s why
we wanted them.

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Jamie (mum) and Niguy (dad)
make the most of their time

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with their daughter Janii, in
the hours before her death.

01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:36.599
Jessica and Geoff hug their
dead son, Shiloh, for the first time.

01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:39.519
Carolyn and Brian hug Ana
while Liam reads a story to her.

01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:42.039
In the farewell,
her grandparents

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and other brother, James,
are also present.

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Hemalatha and Anand deal
with the loss of their baby,

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Vijay, who was born
prematurely.