WEBVTT

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[music]

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This is Christopher Rothko,

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I\'m Mark Rothko\'s son and I have been told
by many people who have known both of us

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that we had similar voices.

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[music]

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Born, Dvinsk, Latvia, 1903. He
migrated to Portland, Oregon, 1913.

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[music]

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You don\'t know what it is to be a Jewish
kid dressed in a suit from Dvinsk,

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not an American idea of a suit, traveling
across America and not able to speak English.

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[music]

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I was never able to forgive
this transplantation to a land

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where I never felt entirely at home.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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Do you know this building?
I know it\'s a landmark.

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Do you know that Mark
Rothko was living here?

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No, I didn\'t. Do you know his name? No. I
just know the people who live in there.

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They are kind of your friends or…

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Yeah, they look out for me. You
know, they always look out for me.

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[sil.]

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When I was a younger man, art was a lonely
thing, no galleries, no collectors,

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no critics, no money. Yet
it was a golden time,

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for then we had nothing to
lose and a vision to gain.

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Today it is not quite the same.
It is a time of tons of verbiage,

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activity, and consumption.

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Which is better for the world at
large, I will not venture to discuss.

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But I do know, that many of those who are driven to this
life are desperately searching for those pockets of silence

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where we can root and grow.

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[music]

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Everything about Rothko is about
changes, about voyages, about travels.

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You know, first of all the
geographical travels.

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He was born in Russia, in 1907, in the
Russian empire, in a city called Dvinsk,

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now Daugavpils, now in Latvia.
And at the age of 10,

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his family moved to the United States,
then he moved out of the United States

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and he came back many times to Europe.

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So basically all those
geographical travels,

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I mean, made him what he was.

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[music]

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\'I became a painter because I wanted to raise painting
to the level of poignancy of music and poetry.

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[music]

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The struggle is beyond
painting, not with painting.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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This is 77th Street.

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[sil.]

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Myth are the symbols of man\'s
primitive fears and motivations,

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no matter in which land or
time, changing only in detail,

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never in substance.

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[sil.]

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[music]

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I sense a deep affinity, the same feeling,
the same broad expanses of somber colors.

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[music]

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So there is in himself,

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you know, a tension… tension between
uh… the new world in which he lives,

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the abstraction, the abstract art
that he\'s going to be part of,

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but also this original miss

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from Europe that he originates from.

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And when he goes back to the Greek\'s
and the Greek mys (inaudible) and

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he starts painting again mythological.

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So that\'s a way of grounding,

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his own art in the… in the
basics of European culture

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and European history.

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Uh… From then on, he\'s going to be able
to evolve and find his own language.

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[music]

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He\'s such an articulate, intellectual,
such an articulate scholar

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that um… it\'s not… There\'s, you know,

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there\'s no wonder that today Rothko is
talking to us much better than anybody else.

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[sil.]

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[sil.]

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[music]

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Art is an adventure into an unknown world,

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which can be explored only by those willing

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to take the risks.

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[music]

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I\'m not an abstractionist.

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I\'m not interested in the relationship
of color or form or anything else.

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I\'m interested only in
expressing basic human emotions,

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tragedy, ecstasy, doom, and so on. And the
fact that lots of people break down and cry

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when confronted with my pictures

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shows that I communicate those basic human
emotions. The people who weep before my pictures

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are having the same religious
experience I had when I painted them.

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And if you are moved only by their
color, then you miss the point.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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[music]

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I crawl was realist in abstract art, only
as one crawls with his father and mother

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recognizing the inevitability
and functions of my roots

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but insists upon dissensions. I\'m both them

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and a new inter-grow completely
independent of them.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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I\'m not mystic,

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a prophet perhaps, but I
don\'t prophecy woes to come.

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I just paint the woes already here.

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[music]

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The height is wonderful, isn\'t it?

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He must have loved that. Umm…

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We are wondering if this
is Mark Rothko\'s paint.

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I don\'t know. It\'s hard to say isn\'t it?
I mean, you can\'t definitively.

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I\'m sure there have been other painters in here.
It certainly has a feel of it but it seems like a

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lot of it right there. It doesn\'t seem…

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[sil.]

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I think there\'s no reason to think, there is some
of Rothko\'s paint but I can\'t stay with any…

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any surety. I don\'t even know what it tells us that
much for and we know he had the paintings on Police,

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we know they were on the stretched,
you know, they were on the wall.

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Umm…

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So a lot of white. I don\'t think
that… Yeah. Come out smart.

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Yeah. I don\'t know a floor is a history.
I mean, it\'s…

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It tells so much about what\'s happened in the space
is supposed to, who necessarily was in the space.

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It\'s more about the space
I think than the painter.

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In that regard it\'s kind
of wonderful. Yeah.

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[sil.]

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[music]

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What is the sadness of life, sir?
Excuse me. What is the sadness of life?

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Not having a moment.

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You know, mom left me when I was two,
my father left me when I was 12,

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you know, that\'s what hurts.

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You know, when I see a family, you
know, sometimes I cry because

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I wish that was me.

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It hurts so bad

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but that\'s life, you know.

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In America you have accidental babies,

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you have chick babies, sex offended
babies, abused babies, adopted babies,

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mom\'s babies and daddy\'s maybe\'s, you know.
I don\'t know what ground I\'m on,

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you know.

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[music]

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[music]

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[sil.]

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[music]

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The recipe for work of
art, its ingredients,

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how to make it, the formula. Number 1,

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there must be a clear preoccupation
with death. Number 2,

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sensuality. It is a lustful
relationship to things that exist.

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Number 3, tension. Either
conflict or curbed desire.

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Number 4, Irony.

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This is a modern ingredient. Number 5,

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wit and play for the human element.
Number 6,

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the ephemeral and chance,
also for the human element.

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And number 7, hope. Ten percent

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is just enough to make the
tragic concept more endurable.

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I think this is an example of my
father\'s great love of irony.

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I think if we take him too
seriously, we are in trouble.

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[sil.]

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Painting for him was a way
to address the people.

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It was a social statement. It was a way of
finding his identity in the American society.

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It was a way of stating

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that the artist has a role in society.

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It was not the case in the United States. The United States
was a country where the artist was very much marginalized.

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So Rothko decided to step in

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and to… to assert what he
had to say through his art.

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[sil.]

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[music]

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After I had been at work for sometime,
I realized that I was much influenced

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subconsciously by Michelangelo\'s walls in the
staircase of the Medicean Library in Florence.

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He achieved just the kind
of feeling I\'m after.

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He makes the viewers feel that they are trapped in a
room where all the doors and windows are bricked up,

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so that all they can do is butt their
heads for ever against the wall.

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[music]

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[sil.]

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[music]

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[music]

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Since my pictures are large,
colorful, and unframed,

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and since museum walls are
usually immense and formidable,

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there is the danger that the pictures relate
themselves as decorative areas to the walls.

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This would be a distortion of their meaning,
since the pictures are intimate and intense,

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and have been painted in
a scale of normal living

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rather than an institutional scale.

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[music]

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[music]

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When I went to Europe and
saw the old masters,

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I was involved with the
credibility of the drama.

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Would Christ on the cross if he opened
his eyes believe the spectators?

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[music]

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I think that small pictures since the Renaissance are like novels, large
pictures are like dramas in which one participates in a direct way.

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[music]

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Painting is a fact subject. Here, it\'s…
it\'s almost a sculpture. Umm… Yeah.

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And what Remnon did,
especially this whole parts,

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but… but this… this is blurred. This is…
this is abstract painting and also this…

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I mean, this color red, it\'s so dim.
It\'s… it\'s… Of course paint…

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Yeah, the face is very nice and but he… he did many
paintings. But this… this has never been done…

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Yeah. So basically it\'s not so much,
the faces which he\'s interested in,

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but the… the figures and the
experimentation of light. Yeah.

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Here we look at invention in art. And… and then Rothko
comes close, I mean… But Rothko… Rothko wrote in 1940.

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Yeah. That Rembrandt was interested
in the plasticity of light. Here.

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Yeah. And Rothko reinvented himself in 1940

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when he wrote a book called \"The Artist\'s Reality,\" where he\'s
looking at all the figures, he stops painting for one whole year

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and he writes a book. And in this book he
goes for all the big figures of the past,

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philosophers, writers,
musicians and artists.

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And he talks about Rembrandt, a lot
especially about this painting

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and the plasticity of light.

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Rembrandt discovered that his patrons

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were not interested in his plastic
preoccupations with light

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and that they preferred the obvious illustrative
gifts of his contemporaries and followers.

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[sil.]

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Rembrandt and Rothko…

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Rothko would say to a friend, then pause,
smile and say \"Rothko and Rembrandt.\"

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I\'m gonna add… I\'m gonna
add one from the family.

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This is not written anywhere but this…
this is what he said in the house.

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\"Mozart, Matisse and Mark, that\'s the
follow after Rothko and Rembrandt.\"

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No, he didn\'t turn it
around as far as I know.

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I don\'t think anyone
could go before Mozart.

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[music]

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When you looked at Matisse\'s Red
Studio you became that color,

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you became totally saturated with it.\"

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[music]

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[sil.]

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Art necessarily reflects the
artist understanding of his times.

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\"We have wiped the slate clean.

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We start new. A new land. We\'ve got
to forget what the Old Masters did.

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[sil.]

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[music]

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I wanted to paint my own size.

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I wanted to recognize myself in my
work, then I realized it\'s completed.

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[music]

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His project was not painting, paintings.
His project was to create environments.

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His project was to reinvent a relationship

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between the public and his art.

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And how would it be? It
would be like theatre.

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He wanted the viewer to step into the
painting. He wanted the paintings to be,

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not positioned low but, high but low.
He wanted them not to be

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on a white wall but on…
on a off white wall.

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He wanted them not to be lighted
but varies in a shadow.

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And he didn\'t one painting but a whole
room. He wanted the audiences by the art.

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Why? Because what he aimed at

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was not consumption of art.
He wanted a dialogue,

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an interaction, a spiritual dimension,
something much more complex

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than, you know, than watching a painting.

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He wanted umm… Basically
he thought that art could

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transform uh… the public.

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[music]

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And if I must place my trust somewhere, I would
invest it in the psyche of sensitive observers

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who are free of the
conventions of understanding.

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I would have no apprehensions about the use they would
make of these pictures for the needs of their own spirits.

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For if there is both need and spirit,

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there is bound to be a real transaction.

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[sil.]

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Well, how is it to (inaudible)?

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Well, it\'s complicated. I think to
restore any work of art is complicated.

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Umm… for a non-representation
of work, of art

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and an abstract art of work,
it\'s even more difficult

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because we don\'t have any
representational clues to go by.

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So we are very much in need of understanding the
artist manipulation of material for visual effect

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and that takes times, that\'s not something that you
immediately see when you look at the work of art.

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So in the case of Rothko,
because it\'s so sophisticated

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with so many layers, it\'s so much
building up of paint overtime,

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umm… it takes that amount of time as well to
understand what the artist was trying to archive.

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[music]

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Do you think that the
paintings we see in Houston,

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that we see them now with
the light Rothko wishes?

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Umm… I think that\'s a
hard question to answer.

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I would say that the question of the light

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is the overwriting question that haunts those
of us concerned with the Rothko chapel.

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It never seemed to be right. And so umm…

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It\'s something that will
always be on our minds

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of how to improve it, resolve it,
make… make peace with it in someway.

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Umm… I don\'t… So I can\'t say that you\'re seeing the
paintings exactly the way Rothko would have intended.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
But what I can say is that, you will have

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
a very umm… personal and meditative,

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
I think experience in the
chapel from the light.

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
Umm… The light changes in Houston
and everywhere it will change but,

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
because it\'s natural light, if you sit
there you will see the clouds go by,

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
you will feel the change of light and
the paintings will respond in that way.

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:38.000
[music]

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
I would like to say to those who
think of my pictures as serene,

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
that I have imprisoned the most utter
violence in every inch of their surface.

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:33.000
[music]

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.999
Brian Robertson describes a moment

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
in the Whitechapel gallery with Rothko
together, with Rothko when he left the place.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
Well, he said, \"My strongest personal memory
is of leaving the Whitechapel gallery

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
with Rothko late one winter afternoon,

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.999
when the daylight had practically gone.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.999
He asked me to switch all
the lights off, everywhere,

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.999
and suddenly, Rothko\'s
color made its own light

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
the effect, once the retina
had adjusted itself,

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
was un-forgettable, smoldering and blazing

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
and glowing softly from the walls,

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
color in the darkness. We
stood there a long time

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
and I wished everyone
could have seen the world

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
Rothko had made, in those
perfect conditions,

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
radiating its own energy and
un-corrupted by artifice

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
or the market place.\" I
think it\'s wonderful.

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
[sil.]

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:48.000
[music]

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
It was accustomed to equate

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.999
the blackness and the sharpness
of the Rothko chapel paintings

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.999
with the artist despair. I never felt then,

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.999
I never did and I still don\'t.
I truly believe that

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.999
the paintings… Well, there are two things but
I truly believe that the paintings were a…

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.999
a major step forward for him
technically and eliminating color,

00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
the one feature for which he was best known

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
and he had… For his classic paintings, he
was a master of. He kind of up the bar

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
and went into creating paintings
without a lot of color.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
He also was well-known as you know in his
classic work, for this wonderful diaphanous

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.999
edges around his forms. In the chapel
paintings he does his very tight straight,

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.999
taped even forms edges.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.999
He\'s just going into something very different and
it think that\'s a very hard… hard think to do.

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.999
I think it was a natural progression of
where he was going but I do not think

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
and I wish it would be dispelled forever, this
association with that, with his final death,

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
I do not think that…
that makes sense at all.

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:53.000
[music]

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
There is more power in telling
little, than in telling all.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
Silence is so accurate.

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:23.000
[music]

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.999
The color of my voice? What color? Umm…
I don\'t know. I think uh… dark brown.

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:54.999
His voice is a little softer. I think a
little, a little rounder around the edges.

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:00.000
He has a little more red in it.